/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10539645
It influenced an entire genre of games. It crossed over into the popular culture and contributed to Japanese language itself, and I think there's a holiday it created too

>>10539645
Not much outside of its bad lazy gameplay that can be copied easily

>>10539645
Localized way too late in the us to get even a sniff of the impact it had on Japan

>>10539645
Just cleared this game a few days ago. It obviously shows its age, but it's a rather charming game.

I really enjoy the simplicity of a single-character turn-based JRPG. It also really captures the feeling of going on an adventure. The late game gets super bogged down by grinding (which I'm told is still problem in the later games in the series), but the early game is very strong.

Would definitely recommend playing, even for just the first few hours.

Dragon Quest 2 was the first hit in that series.

>>10539645
That image provokes memories of the time when you had to fill in the gaps with your imagination.

It's basically entirely responsible for JRPGs as a genre. In Japan its influence worked its way into pretty much every aspect of video games at the time.

DQ1 was influencial, but DQ2 was a lot more influencial. If you look at DQ1 and the RPGs that came after DQ1, there wasn't a lot of RPGs inspired by DQ1, only a few, including something like Indora no Hikari which was half DQ1, half Zelda. The genre was still searching for its identity.

Then with DQ2 the "JRPG" identity was found. This is when you start having games like Final Fantasy and the dozens of DQ clones.

>>10540321
The only thing that DQ2 really substantially has over 1 is having multiple party members. And DQ2 definitely did not create the idea of multiple party members, or even popularize it. Multiple party members is arguably a foundational component of the DnD lineage. You can see it in Wizardry and most of its clones.

>>10539645
it influenced a lot of games but not a single good one

not at all

>>10540345
You fail to realize all the things DQ2 established as standard. Even things that seem evident today like having different two types of dungeons, caves and towers, or the fact that the goal of the game is to find a set number of magical key items, or the way exploration works, with areas being more contained early on before gaining worldwide freedom of exploration (usually with a vehicle like the ship). Those are key mechanics that structure an entire game, and they became standard for jRPGs with DQ2. Another thing is the story orientation, with each party member having a small backstory and personalitty.

Grew up playing Final Fantasy and having never touched DQ. Playing both now in retrospect, I'm beginning to enjoy DQ a lot more than FF. It has a charming simplicity.

Final Fantasy was inspired by Dungeons & Dragons and would've existed even if DQ was never made.
Megami Tensei was based on a book and inspired by Wizardy, which DQ was also inspired by.
Pokemon's monster catching concept came into existence two years before Dairy Queen 5 was released.
Then what did Dragon Ball Quest actually inspire?
uh.....Musashi no Bouken? and other clones that only lasted a single game and never grew into their own series?
Mother was a parody of DQ2 and actively makes fun of it and how shitty it is by having a nerdy school kid talk about it.
Wow, it's almost like this series was never anything special and the only reason people even know about it is because Akira Toriyama worked on it and every character is just a dragon ball character with little to no variations whatsoever... oh, and he's only on record for saying the series is incredibly generic and the exact same thing over and over again.
Dragon Quest had minimal cultural impact, even in Japan.

Tower of Druaga came before Dragon Quest. That's where the Japanese inspiration stemmed from D&D really began.

>>10539645
Not much even inside Japan. Now Dragon Quest 2, now that one defined JRPG.

>>10540868
If it was influential enough to create a parody game then it was by definition influential

>>10540868
I saw this poster in /v/ posting the same shit, like if it wasn't something well recorded you my have something but DQ is well know to have popularize the genre in Japan.
>Final Fantasy was inspired by Dungeons & Dragons and would've existed even if DQ was never made.
Not true, if it wasn't for DQ2 success Square would never even try to make an RPG, DQ2 also was the reason why players can trade Pokemon.
>Megami Tensei was based on a book and inspired by Wizardy, which DQ was also inspired by.
No shit?
>Pokemon's monster catching concept came into existence two years before Dairy Queen 5 was released.
The concept for both DQ5 and Pokemon come from Ultra7 capsule monsters.
>uh.....Musashi no Bouken? and other clones that only lasted a single game and never grew into their own series?
So did inspire other games.
>Mother was a parody of DQ2 and actively makes fun of it and how shitty it is by having a nerdy school kid talk about it.
So what is it then? I though that all DQ clones died on the Famicom
>Wow, it's almost like this series was never anything special and the only reason people even know about it is because Akira Toriyama worked on it
That's true for the west but not Japan.
>and every character is just a dragon ball character with little to no variations whatsoever...
Toriyama I well known for his same faces but his strength have always been on the character designs, only the female merchants and red/wished suffer from poor character design
>oh, and he's only on record for saying the series is incredibly generic and the exact same thing over and over again.
Source?
>Dragon Quest had minimal cultural impact, even in Japan.
LMAO, XD even.
Like what's wrong with you to lie like this?

>>10541007
>The concept for both DQ5 and Pokemon come from Ultra7 capsule monsters.
Dai no Bouken was literally Pokemon before Pokemon was even a thing.

>>10541007
>Dragon Quest had minimal cultural impact, even in Japan.
>New DQ games are forced to be released on weekend so people don't skip their job to buy them on release date
>minimal cultural impact in Japan
KEK

Pokemon is literally just Dragon Quest with some tweaks. I don't know how you can play the games and not perceive this. When they made Pokemon, they weren't copying Final Fantasy or Megami Tensei, they were copying Dragon Quest.

>>10539748
Toriyama's environments are breathtaking and something he never gets enough credit for.

>>10539645
All the games (any JRPG, really) suck and are boring and the stories are stupid but I like the monsters.

>>10540978
People make fun of failed products all the time, dragon rest is nothing different.
>>10541007
>Trying to nitpick the entire argument and failing spectacularly
holy shit hahaha
stop trying to spread your lies that people have been spreading for years, dragon quest had zero cultural impact and no amount of crying will ever change that.
>>10541042
>forced
That's literally false, retard.
Enix themselves made it release on weekends, they weren't forced to do so.
Dairy Queen fanatics are truly the worst, holy shit.

Dragon Rest had no influence on anything.
It is not important.
You could erase it and nothing would change.
"Created an entire genre" my ass, Final Fantasy was a far more influential and established far more standards in the series than Dairy Queen ever did.

>>10539645
It's what made the Japanese console RPG, they took a look at the few Japanese PC offerings of "real" RPGs for inspiration on what to do and not to do and added some decent console graphics on it based on a palatable artstyle whilst making the controls easier.
They definitely didn't do anything new in comparison to those games, but the presentation is far nicer and a simple control scheme instead of a whole keyboard goes a long way. All the Kentas, Hirosukes and Shotas suddenly were introduced to RPGs that weren't played by their nerdy college aged brother.

Where did this lying fag came from? Your "Dragon Rest" fanfic is a lying trash you retarded contrarian fool.

>>10541362
>>10541376
Cope.

In terms of JRPGs it's difficult to overstate how influential Dragon Quest 1 was.
For many years it was the yardstick every JRPG was measured against and the playbook they all drew from.
You can look at basically every design decision in Famicom RPGs (including later Dragon Quest games) and sort them into two piles: choices that copy Dragon Quest, and choices that are intentionally different to differentiate themselves from Dragon Quest.
Experience, dungeons, bosses, levels, gold, random encounters, equipment, consumables, key items, save points, stores, inns... the structure of RPGs defined by these building blocks was introduced to Japanese audiences through DQ1. Other elements like classes and class changing were introduced by later DQ games.

If you want to know what a JRPG that WASN'T influenced by Dragon Quest would look like, look at the first Legend of Zelda game.
Conceptually it and Dragon Quest are very similar; you fight monsters with a sword and shield on a quest to rescue a princess. But the way they approach that concept are completely different.
In a world with no Dragon Quest, Famicom RPGs would probably look more like Zelda and Ys and River City Ransom. They'd be a subgenre of action games with little defined identity of their own.
For people who despise RPGs I'm sure they would consider this a blessing, but I like having the option of playing a game where I save the world with my brain instead of my thumbs, and I'm sure a lot of classic games like that wouldn't exist if not for Dragon Quest.

>>10541881
>In a world with no Dragon Quest, Famicom RPGs would probably look more like Zelda and Ys and River City Ransom. They'd be a subgenre of action games

>>10541881
almost like they are both based off ultima and the rest of your points are irrelevant. the same fag (not to be confused with samefagging) goes on about dq2 every thread when those are all concepts from ultima 1-3. oh boy. a ship! never seen that one before. never saw dungeons in the overworld. or tilestep movement. random encounters. and mitigated progression that gradually opens up. npcs that you find in the through exploration. all these games are firmly based off ultima, with the command battle system from wizardry. other than the streamlined narrative elements the impact from dragon quest is minimal. the yardstick has and will always be ultima. next up would be druaga which bleeds into xanadu, an actual original action game.

>>10541957
let me add this too. japans actual contribution to game design is the progression of action systems. druaga, hydlide, and xanadu are all significant on the road to zelda. these are important games. dragon quest brings nothing new to the table other than simplified systems which existed for years. anyone telling you otherwise is peddling snake oil.

>>10541969
>dragon quest brings nothing new to the table other than simplified systems which existed for years. anyone telling you otherwise is peddling snake oil.
Never in the history of gaming people said otherwise, DQ popularised the genre by making it easy enough so kids could play it.
What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>10541957
>impact from dragon quest is minimal
FUCKING BANANA EATING RETARD MONKEY.
Developers started making RPG on the Famicom because of DQ success, you can't deny how important DQ was to home console RPGs, every single one of them are literary clones or answer to DQ like FF.
The inspiration for DQ was ALWAYS Wizardry and Ultima nobody denied this , even the developers stated this way before the first DQ game was out.
Why are you so adamant to lie like this?

didnt play any dragon quest games growing up. loved the shit out of the toriyama artwork though. my first dragon quest game was 11 on steam. i liked it but it got kinda boring and i stopped like halfway through but it deserves another try one day

>>10540559
Jesus I know this is a cliche thing to say but play ultima 1-3 sometime. There is nothing in 8 bit jrpgs that wasn't already done by 1983, they're just fangames unti a few years into the 90s

>>10542014
You know what "popularized" means?

People trying to either downplay or deny any influence DQ had on RPG's in Japan should show you how people will just fucking make any shit up on here
Pokemon is literally DQ straight down to mimicking Toriyama's art style, several gen 1 pokemon are 1:1 referencing some DQ monster, the idea of trading came from the creators wanting to trade rare drops in DQ3 with each other.
SMT is still the progenitor of the genre and its influence is bigger than people assume, but there's absolutely no reason to assume Gamefreak didn't play DQ5 and saw the monster recruitment mechanic, they were obviously the DQ fanboys you hate.

>>10541881
>If you want to know what a JRPG that WASN'T influenced by Dragon Quest would look like
I always assumed it would be the first Megami Tensei game. That game seems to jump over any Ultima influence that DQ had and is a Wizardry clone, complete with an alignment system and purely dungeon crawling with no world map.

>>10542014
>>10542004
lol

>>10542026
Maybe interpret the "development" of "innovations" in 8 bit jrpgs as ultima-playing developers slow rolling out ultima features because they didn't know what normalfags could handle. But the entire blueprint already existed, absolutely completely, until they really split off into being an actual genre in the early 90s.

>>10541881
In a world with no Dragon Quest, Famicom RPGs would probably look more like Zelda and Ys and River City Ransom. They'd be a subgenre of action games

so a better world?

>>10541362
>woah, you really tried to nitpick the whole argument huh?
>I won't respond to anything you said, but let it be known that just... wow, I CAN'T believe you'd do that
Why are you such a massive faggot on Christmas Eve of all days.

>>10541158
That was obvious from the artwork.

>DQ, wizardry or ultima
>influential
lmao. they're all Epic of gilgamesh clones with a tileset. Even the combat system is adding an attack button to that one time gilgamesh battled, heck items exist because Gilgamesh picked an herb once. A herb with healing properties, even. The lack of originality is ridiculous.

>>10542014
I didn't say they were the first

>>10539645
holy fuck dq1 is awesome! the only entry in the series i like and replay. I will admit the nes version was a bit fucky with having to menu to use stairs, but the gbc port\remake is fucking gold. they even thought about replayability with the whole name = stats things

>>10542930
It's the rpg boiled down to its most simplest form I guess
Sometimes I just want to go out and kill things, no bells and whistles

>>10540321
Square wanted to put out a RPG but they couldn't convince their superiors for the go ahead because they couldn't see a market for RPGs. Then Dragon Quest came out. Dragon Quest 1 was influential with resubmitting the idea that a RPG can work and getting it green lit due to its success.

>>10542989
And yet Square's RPGs before Final Fantasy were released through DOG, a consortium of several publishers/devs. So they had to group themselves together to lower risk.
And the games they released that way weren't very successful (Karin no Tsurugi, Cleopatra no Mahou) outside of Deep Dungeon 1 and 2 which did okay.

This was the console RPG situation before DQ2. Note also that those RPGs were simple in size and mechanics. Again, until DQ2 came around and changed console jRPGs forever.

I like the early falcom stuff more than any other jrpg or jap arpg stuff, simple as

>>10543082
For me, it's the pre-86 J-Ultimas.

>>10539645
Why would you ask such an obvious, dumbass question? Don't you think it behooves you to do a little research on your own?

>>10543123
If anything, he is not even reading this thread.

>>10542569
I know this is a cliche thing to say but look at cave paintings sometime. There is nothing in the epic of gilgamesh that wasn't already done by 15,000 BC, the ancient mesopotamians were just writing fanfiction until a few millennia before christ.

>>10542151
>I-is t-that... a b-bat? And a cobra? A spiky round creature? Holy shit, a Dragon Quest ripoff! I have to tell everyone! Mom, mooooooom!

>>10543280
Ripping off and taking inspiration are two different things

>>10543295
It's reaching is what it is.
A purple sludge with eyes is a rip-off of a salivating purple snail with eyes on antennas?
A pink gum that can mimic anything is a rip-off of a bubbly green sludge with a face?
Fucking cobras? A spiky evil ghost with detached hands is a rip-off of a round cheeky ghost that wears a hat?
And what does Scyther have in common with that two-faced horned green monster? Besides the color?

>>10539645
Unfortunately, too influential...

>>10542026
it means retards like to keep being wrong since being popular is more important than who came up with something

>>10543348
Exactly, doesn't matter who did it first but who did it right, glad you understand.

>>10539645
So influential that a weeabo character in a Yakuza game with brain damage pretends that his life is just like the game Dragon Quest.

Boy, a lot of the posts in this thread sure seem familiar. Oh yeah, I remember now.
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/661639529

>>10541881
>In a world with no Dragon Quest, Famicom RPGs would probably look more like Zelda and Ys and River City Ransom. They'd be a subgenre of action games
I was born in the wrong timeline

>>10543998
DQ looked way better than most NES games that weren't juiced up on mappers, it's use of color palettes were especially great.

>>10541015
Dai no Daibouken was hardly Pokemon.
It did feature magic capsules as early as the first chapter, but were very quickly forgotten about for the rest of the 300+ chapter series. It was not a monster-catching series.

>>10544006
>DQ looked way better than most NES games
Only you and 1 other crazy person thinks this.

>>10543280
You can't cope your way out of DQ's influence on pokemon

>>10543970
He has to be trying some new form of bait. Also I want to reply to this guy
>Wizardry had monster collecting before Pokemon, before SMT, Final Fantasy was inspired by Wizardry.
Wizardry IV and the first Megami Tensei were developed at the same time but MT came out months earlier, so it still holds the title. But Cosmic Soldier had mechanics that allowed you to nab enemies and make them fight in your party a year prior.
I've heard that those ancient 70's RPG's played on mainframe computers had some monster recruitment mechanics but I have never been able to find a specific example, but it would make sense since those are what the Wizardry creators played in college

>>10541007
>s-source????
maybe use your own fucking brain
https://www.crunchyroll.com/news/latest/2016/12/30/akira-toriyama-dishes-on-designing-characters-for-dragon-quest
literally one google search
fuck you

>>10544095
>why would you not trust me after I continuously made baseless claims and lies already

>>10544095
Oh hey, I remember this one too!
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/661421804

>>10544109
For the record, Toriyama doesn't even say that the series is incredibly generic, just that he personally has trouble going back to the same "time period" that Dragon Quest encompasses, and that if he had known the series would have gone on this long he probably would've never taken the job in the first place because of it. But goes on to say that he takes on each Dragon Quest project with all his might.
It's also well known that Toriyama loves designing monsters.

>>10541957
I'm no expert but the battle system of DQ is a lot more wizardry than ultima, so presumably what DQ brought in was the combination of ultima overworld with the battle system of wizardry. I'd be curious if some game did ultima overworld+wizardry earlier, in that case you could conclusively say they'd have outdone dq.

>>10544121
Yeah I've heard him talk about it before and it's not really a secret. Toriyama is a guy who prefers to draw whatever he wants which is why Dragon Ball has stuff from kung fu fighters to dragons to alien and clunky sci fi machinery

>>10544123
There's actually a game someone covered on here that was just like that and was actually noted for being somewhat influential in those early pre-DQ years, maybe someone already mentioned it. Was an Ultima clone, but with Wizardry combat and it came out like half a year prior. Did the different dungeons types thing too, but all the dungeon tiles looked the same. He also said they did a wizardry clone with Ultima combat too, I forgot the name of either. It was a while back, think it was a PC-88 thread so it's probably easily found, they don't happen a lot.

>>10544095
No, fuck you and your shitty head canon reading comprehension, you fucking pathetic down syndrome lying piece of shit.
>HE SAID THAT DAIRY QUEEN IS GENERIC AND THE SAME OVER AND OVER
Literally says in that link that it's hard to draw characters on the same settings and that's fucking it you retard
You are so stupid that you even show evidence contradicting yourself.
>>10544021
I know that, but according to certain down syndrome lying faggot other franchises don't count if you did first.

I'd say Dragon Quest 3 was way more influential. Usually when modern Japanese media parodies FC-era RPGs the characters look more like those from DQ3.

>>10544137
The Black Onyx by Hank Rogers?
First turn based RPG created in Japan, pretty much a Wizardry clone that along with Tower of Druaga went and influenced Hydle creator.

>>10544172
No, not that one, though that is an influential one.
It was Mugen no Shinzo 2 (the full ultima clone with some JRPG flair). The Wizardry with Ultima combat was Fantasia, but he didn't post anything else about that. He plays all 3 in the series (1984, 1985, 1989).

>>/vr/thread/10429260

>>10543970
>Not going to lie until this thread I thought SMT was ripping off Pokémon not the other way around. Didn’t realize it came out in fucking 1987
God I love /v/tards
>This is a dumb thread, it's obviously inspired by SaGa
This is an overlooked fact too, the idea for pokemon evolutions came from how SaGa monsters mutated from what meat you gave them

>>10544165
>Dragon Quest 3: the Prequel where it all started chronologically
>Dragon Quest 1: the commercial start of the Franchise, and keystone game
>Dragon Quest 2: proper sequel
>Dragon Quest 4: indirect sequel and start of a new story arc
>Dragon Quest 5: the Castle in the Sky saga continues.
>Dragon Quest 6: The Castle in the Sky saga is complete
>Dragon Quest 7: You start on an island with large swaths of water surrounding it set sail something something hijinks ???

>>10541007
>The concept for both DQ5 and Pokemon come from Ultra7 capsule monsters.
Is that where they got Slapstick from?

>>10544696
6 is a prequel to 4.

>>10544709
3 is a prequel to 1, I know that. But 6 being a prequel to 4? REALLY?

I don't really understand why not that many people recognize how the entire starting castle area in Dragon Quest 1 was directly inspired by one of the premade houses in The Sims 2. Lots of ludoilliterates on this board I tell you what. Learn your vidcons and your vidconhistoria, people

>>10539652
>It influenced an entire genre of games.
Pretty much this.

It normalized undergoing a software-based lobotomy where you would wait for the prompt then press a to attack for hours on end and eventually win.

>>10539645
Not nearly as influential as ULTIMA.

>>10544861
Yeah. It's never outright confirmed like the end of III and it's "to be continued" screen but instead is something players have to put together themselves.
There are three big clues that it's a prequel:
-In 4 and 5 there are legends about Zenithia, and in 5 there's a story about the secret of evolution, while in 6 there is nothing of the sort. Also in 5, the Zenith Dragon is more trusting of the human race due to the events of 4, while in 6 the dragon is nowhere to be seen.
-Rather than Zenithia, 6 features Cloudsgate Citadel, a castle in the upper world with an identical layout. Instead of being ruled by the Zenith Dragon, it's ruled by a human king. A dragon egg is kept inside the castle. During the ending, the upper world fades away with the exception of Cloudsgate, and the egg hatches.
-The Zenithian equipment doesn't appear in 6, instead having the party collect four pieces of equipment that are legendary in their own right. Artwork, particularly modern artwork, shows them to be similar to what would become the Zenithian equipment. These are the Armor of Orgo, Helm of Sebath, Shield of Valora, and Sword of Ramias.
There's a fourth clue, but it's semi-exclusive to the DS version. In the bonus dungeon there's a village idental to Weaver's Peak called Reaper's Peak where the player is asked if they want to look into the near future, the far future, or simply today. In the near future the town is populated by characters from Dragon Quest 4, while in the far future it's populated by characters from Dragon Quest 5. Today shows the town mostly how it was in the Super Famicom version, where it's populated by monsters, except that the Super Famicom version also included a handful of characters from 4 and 5 that were moved to the future periods in the DS version.
That's all with official localization terms, because I may as well make it understandable for the majority than just those who prefer the Japanese terminology.

>>10544204
>>10544172
I guess the takeaway is DQ wasn't *too* original since the Japanese were already keeping rpg alive making ultima-lites and maze-likes and the such, and DQ was a pretty snappy one that released at the right time and happened to get popular?

>>10545024
And now there's a new DQ Monsters game taking place between 6 and 4 explaining how Psaro came into power.

It's responsible for the mainstream success of RPGs in Japan. JRPGs absolutely still would have existed, and it's interesting to consider what they would have looked like, but Dragon Quest took what was a complex, computer-centric genre and simplified it down to a formula that Japanese children/console players could understand. Its success created a market that other console JRPGs could succeed in, at the sacrifice of a lot of the more complex systems of its predecessors (early Falcom RPGs, for example).

Dragon Quest is popular, therefore I must deny it was ever good and influencial. You see, I believe this makes of me someone with somewhat of a refined taste.

>>10545136
Right time, right way, right place. A few others tried before, but didn't play as nicely or market well enough. DQ 1 still has a few issues that really shouldn't have been there (stairs to name one, a lot of CRPGs didn't even do this anymore a few years prior, they'd ask if you want to use it at worst) which makes me think it was a rushed project in some ways.
Anyway everyone gets inspired. The original zelda has single digit original ideas, if any. However it combines a lot of things from other succesful games (in Japan) for the better, making for a far nicer casual experience which got worldwide success. Again, with the help of marketing of course.

>>10545547
>(stairs to name one, a lot of CRPGs didn't even do this anymore a few years prior, they'd ask if you want to use it at worst)
Meanwhile new ASCII roguelikes still feature separate commands for climbing UP and DOWN stairs

Slime monsters are strongly associated with Dragon Quest, although earlier games had them, like Hydlide, Tower of Druaga, and Wizardry. Oh and DND has them but they're called gelatinous cubes.

>>10546796
>Oh and DND has them but they're called gelatinous cubes.
Aren't those mid-tier enemies tho'?

>>10544696
Kandar from Dragon Quest 3 reappears in Dragon Quest 5 which makes them connected too.

>>10546796
DQ got it staright from Wizardry and Yuji Hori's original concept looked just like a slime sprite from one version of the game, but it all originated with D&D. A lot of things originated with D&D, martial artists monks styled after Chinese Buddhist monks randomly hanging out with a cast of European medieval fantasy stock characters of wizards and knights(with some Arabian Nights fantasy thrown on) a la DQ3 probably wouldn't ever be a thing without D&D, those things aren't Tolkien. Though one of the creators of Wizardry was a huge weeb which would explain the samurai and ninjas

>>10547306
Also, most of Japan was introduced to generic fantasy tropes and elements through DQ. People were doing it before yes, but fantasy novels like Tolkien's and D&D weren't as popular as in the west. It's why modern isekai is so filled with video game shit.

I swear I have seen actual slimes (not cubes) is Icewind Dale. Are you saying they were beckported from Japan?

>>10547830
SAO, the ultra popular game mechanic anime proto-isekai? Inspired by mmos. UO, WoW? Full of game mechanics. hmm.

>>10541881
>In a world with no Dragon Quest, Famicom RPGs would probably look more like Zelda and Ys and River City Ransom.

My mission then is clear.

>>10548351
It's almost like there's more than sao

>>10543998
>>10548409
>>10541881
Those things also already exist and are also directly inspired by DQ. Everyone started adding RPG elements in every genre because RPGs were popular.

>>10548446
No they were fucking not. Hydlide had long existed before DQ and the creator was inspired by Black Onyx. Hydlide, Xanadu, and Black Onyx sold like crazy, those are the three most influential JRPGs and Dragon Quest ripped it off in 1986.

>>10548520
>>10548520
>Dragon Quest ripped it off in 1986.
DQ ripped off Wizardry combat and Ultima over world maps, Xanadu and Hidley don't play nothing like DQ and The Black Onyx is literally a Wizardry clone.
Horii and Nakamura stated this shit over and over and you see it on the games so what so hard to understand?

>>10541881
>If you want to know what a JRPG that WASN'T influenced by Dragon Quest would look like
If i remember correctly, Final Fantasy was actually not inspired by Dragon Quest, or any video game in particular. Rather, they looked up to D&D proper and Dragon Quest only came into picture in the terms of "what D&D mechanics we should implement that other video games ignored".

>>10548446
>directly inspired by DQ
RPGs had been popular in Japan since the release of Black Onyx. Xanadu and Tritorn shaped the action RPG gameplay of JRPGs.

>>10548548
>Xanadu and Hidley don't play nothing like DQ
Yes they do play like DQ, the simplified stats and fixation on grinding and leveling up resemble DQ a lot.

If the question is "Does <RPG thing> come from DND originally?", the answer is probably yes.

>>10548702
Let's list RPG things that don't come from DnD, i'll start.
The Yuusha and the Maou.

>>10548702
D&D is like the primordial ooze for video games.

>>10548605
Why you keep making shit up?
https://youtu.be/aIWai4acAhw?feature=shared

>>10548550
Funny, because FF1 basically just feels like Dragon Quest + a Wizardry character creator. And DQ3 is in a similar boat.

>>10548434
"and there's more than just DQ".
point is, many posters (like poster above) act like DQ single-handedly responsible for isekai with no citation. its the devil. I could never get that. case in point, SAO lol. or all the other games at the time. etc.

"How influential was Dragon Quest?".

"Final Fantasy was inspired by Dungeons & Dragons and would've existed even if DQ was never made.
Megami Tensei was based on a book and inspired by Wizardy, which DQ was also inspired by.
Pokemon's monster catching concept came into existence two years before Dairy Queen 5 was released.
Then what did Dragon Ball Quest actually inspire?
uh.....Musashi no Bouken? and other clones that only lasted a single game and never grew into their own series?
Mother was a parody of DQ2 and actively makes fun of it and how shitty it is by having a nerdy school kid talk about it.
Wow,
it's almost like this series was never anything special and the only
reason people even know about it is because Akira Toriyama worked on it
and every character is just a dragon ball character with little to no
variations whatsoever... oh, and he's only on record for saying the
series is incredibly generic and the exact same thing over and over
again.
Dragon Quest had minimal cultural impact, even in Japan".

The History of the Famicom (Japanese documentary w/ subtitles):
https://youtu.be/gFgp_eykD4E?feature=shared&t=945

Best selling PS2 games in Japan:
https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_2

>Final Fantasy would have existed without Dragon Quest

How delusional or cast away from reality do you have to be to say something like this. Just have a look at Square's RPGs before DQ2 shaped the genre.

>Hironobu Sakaguchi had intended to make a role-playing game (RPG) for a long time, but his employer Square refused to give him permission as it expected low sales of such a product. However, when the RPG Dragon Quest was released and proved to be a hit in Japan, the company reconsidered its stance on the genre and approved Sakaguchi's vision of an RPG inspired by Ultima and Wizardry.
In this version of history, Final Fantasy exists because Dragon Quest did so well.
In an alternate history where Dragon Quest never existed, would some other RPG had such a successful launch to enable Final Fantasy to exist? Would Square's higher ups have eventually relented and allowed it to be developed anyway?
There's no way of knowing.

>>10549318
One of the most popular isekai's is about being reincarnated into a slime, SAO was based on Ultima Online but you know when a Jap is creating a generic RPG setting they're thinking of DQ as the core basis and likely have never played UO in the late fucking 90s. Of course not every fucking one is gonna be solely DQ, but it's like D&D and Tolkien in the west, when someone wants a basic generic fantasy they're going to use though as a basis

>>10549637
>Megami Tensei was based on a book and inspired by Wizardy, which DQ was also inspired by.
The guys who made MT were also already playing western tabletop RPG's at work so I think it would've existed with and without DQ. They didn't even add an overworld until the second game, and by the SNES era they treated it very abstractly and secondary to dungeons
>Then what did Dragon Ball Quest actually inspire?
Oh it's the shitposter

>>10539645
Dragon Quest basically invented video games.

>>10541165
Toriyama probably didn't draw that, that looks like it was done by a separate background artist. Even during the run of Dragon Ball he had assistants working on backgrounds.

>>10549710
>>10550113
I think a good comparison is Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter 2. Fighting games were already being made, the idea of Mortal Kombat was already there at Midway but the higher ups weren't keen on it until AFTER Street Fighter 2 came out, set a new standard, and became a huge success and caused a wave of fighting games.
Maybe MK would've existed in another timeline, but we can look at something like Pit Fighter to see how it would've looked like

>>10539645
so influential in Japanese game dev due to its popularity that action games started having some mild RPG mechanics fast.

>>10550378
>have never played UO in the late fucking 90s.
Yeah, but SAO writer clearly did (play mmos, whatever they were) and you can tell they are totally aping SAO more than anything when adding mechanics (which every other game had).
>you know when a Jap is creating a generic RPG setting they're thinking of DQ as the core basis
This is true but there are caveats. Let's say it is 60%+ true.
1. I'm no mind reader but for all I know there's a lot of jrpgs around and I can presume actually they may have played a mix of them, of which DQ is one. You will of course say they are all inspired by DQ (Mystic Quest? Breath of Fire? Golden Sun? all clones) but that makes calling that one game "the core basis" sound off. I'd hesitate to simplify things like that.
2. The setting is so generic that it's essentially meaningless to make a distinction.
I could say D&D is the basis of isekai and I'd be right? It is the same thing lol. (This is when you ignore that DQ is a D&D clone, even though you pointed out all jrpgs are DQ clones.)
DQ adds nothing narratively to a story.
>The story has a hero and a villain.
lol. lmao, even. Having a hero and a villain is the oldest trick in the book. Zelda has Ganon. HP has Voldemort.
>A mob enemy is a slime and not a rat or something
It's all meaningless cuz any fantasy is that. If they didn't do DQ fantasy but D&D with hero/villain fantasy it'd be the same thing. Why pinpoint it to this one game? DQ is but part of the fantasy wave.
Also obviously, pre-DQ fantasy wasn't basing itself on DQ since it was Wizardry/Ultima/DnD. Madou Monogatari is still all Wizardry, it had no overworld.

>>10550660
No, they were all influenced by Hydlide, Tritorn, Xanadu, and Valis. PC-88 and MSX already had a handful of Hydlide and Zelda II style action RPGs before the release of Dragon Warrior.

What makes this guy deny DQ's influence so much

>>10550778
It gets him guaranteed replies

>>10549710
You know certain people at Square that worked on the first Final Fantasy weren't there on previous works.

>>10550778
Influence on what? Action JRPGs had been long established by Hydlide. It influenced turn based jarpigs for sure.

>>10550778
Just a hipster wanna be homo.

>>10548446
Falcom predates DQ, nut tard.

>>10551862
And nobody was doing it on console and selling millions before DQ

This is like saying "actually Resident Evil was never influencial because Alone in the Dark and Sweet Home existed before!". And not many gave a fuck about Sweet Home.

>>10551882
Nintendo did, it was called The Legend of Zelda. It's a little known game you might've heard about that predates Dragon Quest in Japan and was quite succesful.

>>10551887
>The initial design for Nintendo's new game—which they had codenamed "Adventure Title" in their design documents—called for the player to enter labyrinthine levels straight from the title screen, similar to The Black Onyx, which Miyamoto would later cite as a source of inspiration along with Ultima.[13][14]

>>10552269
Yeah, but anon was sperging about how that was one of the titles inspired by DQ because he forgot its release date.
Miyamoto-kyun just ripped off Xanadu after playing that in his forest garden backyard and made the dungeon cells slightly less empty. The really importan quest is, did he have the Sharp X1 version, Beeper PC-88 or FM sound PC-8X and did he actualy beat it?

>>10552391
He also ripped off Gateway to Apshai for the Colecovision.

>>10552479
He couldn't afford a colecovision as Nintendo was too poor back then (donkey kong money was reinvested in the company). All he had before his Japtop was a Cassette Vision (non-super). A horrible fate.

>>10552391
DQ1 and Zelda 1 came out at the same time. They were developed at the same time. The idea that one of them was copying another, I can't take that seriously, unless there's real evidence. Zelda came out a few months earlier, that's it.

>>10552691
Agreeing with me doesn't answer my question, shiggy.

Since this previous point did not find a completely agreed conclusion, Torishima has told to Forbes that the inspiration for the creation of "Dragon Quest", it was the "Ultima" series, which was published on Apple computers of that period.

"Kazuhiko Torishima On Shaping The Success Of 'Dragon Ball' And The Origins Of 'Dragon Quest'":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2016/10/15/kazuhiko-torishima-on-shaping-the-success-of-dragon-ball-and-the-origins-of-dragon-quest/

Torishima “After we started our sealed gaming pages, it wasn't long until magazines like Famitsu popped up. However, our gaming section was focused on cheats and was only done by two or three people. On top of that we used to get around thirty thousand letters from our readers about gaming. Compared to Famitsu, who even tried to reverse engineer the Famicom cartridges, we realized we had reached our limit on what we could do.

We then came up with a new idea, as our current structure had reached its limit. So the idea was to show to our readers how a game is developed. Starting from the very early concept stages, all the way through production. As it would be our own game, the information would then be exclusive. So this is how Dragon Quest started.

At this time, Horii started his work at Enix, on games like 'Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken' and 'Okhotsku ni Kiyu: Hokkaido Rensa Satsujin Jiken'. In addition, myself and my team were crazy about role-playing games on Apple, like Ultima. So I thought we should do a role-playing game with Horii as the scenario writer. However, if we had just these things it would mean we wouldn't have the justification to include it in Weekly Jump. This is why I decided to add Toriyama to the project for the character designs".

>>10551887
Zelda felt like a more primitive Atic Atac that came out three years early on the speccy.

>>10552719
Is Torishima ignoring Horii himself saying Wizardry was the inspiration? Portopia even has a Easter egg about Wizardry.

>>10552691
I prefer the simpler argument that you'd have to be a complete retard to think they have anything in common. You may as well say Overwatch ripped off GTA.

>>10552765
They both ripped off the legend of zelda ocarina of time though.

>>10552719
I am gonna say this and take it however you want.
Torishima has never been mentioned in interviews done to either Horii or Nakamura, and most of the time on interviews talking about manga he tend to inflate himself quite a lot to the point many japs tend to hate this guy.
He stated that Ultima was his favorite game and that's why they decided to copy it, but both Horii and Nakamura stated that it was BOTH Wizardry an Ultima that inspired DQ, also there's this >>10552754 on the Famicom version and a crap ton of interviews from Horii and Nakamura contradict what Torishima says and reconfirm what Horii and Nakamura say about the each other stories, for what I gather what he did is getting Toriyama on board and being in charge of the project from the Jump side, both being huge deals.
Not to mention they got the idea to do DQ after going to the states to a PC expo or some shit in 1985 and seeing wizardry I'm display.
Also remember this is the guy who said he would pretty much cut everything that made Berserk good, he may have been a top notch editor back in the day but I feel that now days he wants to be relevant again.
https://www.crunchyroll.com/news/features/2016/9/22/feature-part-2-of-berserk-discussion-urges-miura-to-try-a-new-story

It's just my personal interpretation, but for this occasion, I don't think that Torishima has wanted to deliberately conceal "Wizardry", because maybe he just tried to quickly answer the question that Forbes asked him.

In any case, whatever the truth was, as you also said, it is Horii himself who admitted this influence.

"'Dragon Quest' Creator Sheds Light On The Inspiration For The Slime":
https://web.archive.org/web/20100712234824/http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2010/07/09/dragon-quest-creator-sheds-light-on-the-creation-of-the-slime/

MTV "After all these years, one lingering question remains: how was the Slime born? I asked one of the 'Dragon Quest' creators, Yuji Horii, and he told me that his inspiration for the monster actually came from the classic RPG, 'Wizardry'".

Horii "I was really hooked on 'Wizardy', the PC game, and that's kind of where I got the inspiration for the Slime. There's...slime-looking characters [in 'Wizardry'], so I got the inspiration from it. I was doodling the slime-looking character and I took it to Mr. Toriyama, who did the character design, and he made it the Slime we see today".

"Yuji Horii on the legacy of Dragon Quest":
https://www.polygon.com/features/2018/9/20/17876714/yuji-horii-dragon-quest-11-interview

Polygon "We figured it was a good time to look back. Over the years, Horii has been open in interviews about the series’ history. He’s described how the first game borrowed ideas the Wizardry and Ultima franchises, and how his original goal was to distill the esoteric RPG genre into something more approachable and welcoming for all audiences. But there are always new secrets left to uncover. In the following interview, Horii is joined by series executive producer Yuu Miyake, DQ11 producer Hokuto Okamoto and DQ11 game director Takeshi Uchikawa, as we discuss the legacy that they’re trying to maintain" [...].

Polygon "It’s been mentioned many times before that Ultima and Wizardry had a big influence on the creation of Dragon Quest, but what was appealing about that specific kind of Western fantasy theme? Why did you go with that instead of changing it to something with more of a Japanese influence?".

Horii "There were so many options we could have potentially gone with: ninja, samurai and those kinds of themes. But Japanese people are already familiar with those topics; I felt like there wouldn’t be a sense of escapism. I thought swords and sorcery, which Japanese people weren’t quite as knowledgeable about, would help expand people’s imaginations. That kind of style, but made more lighthearted".

Black Onyx was a Wizardry clone, where half the staff was Western. In fact, the lead programmer is friends with the creator of Wizardry.

>>10553498
And he the Tetris guy too

>>10542982
and it works so well. they should have made the sequel more like this and less 'evolved'. fuck rpgs with multiple party members

>>10554394
>fuck rpgs with multiple party members
I hate fixed party members but being able to make your own in 3 is what I want. And its nit really "evolved", it's then trying to catch up with other RPGs again. Ultima had recurring characters who you'd adventure with, and Wizardry made you make each character from scratch. I think the latter is what role-playing is about personally

>>10541015
>300 chapter manga
Not culturally relevant? There is a fake comic "Puri Gorota" in the series Nodame Cantabile and the author literally stole the names from Dai no Daibouken and made them characters in this fake comic (Leona, Mom, Pop). Shit has nothing to do with video games, and is for girls.

>>10542014
In comparison to the number of people playing older DQ titles, absolutely no one is playing the original computer versions of Ultima in the current year.

>>10542173
And... the games never left Japan until animu wanking zoomers were born...

>>10554394
I don't mind multiple members, but I hate pre-rolled [animu shit] characters. Blank slates are vastly superior and anyone who says otherwise is a faggot - I could give a fuck less what the gaming community as a whole thinks, only faggots and other undesirables comment and review games. Real men don't express opinion on the Internet, just FACTS.

>>10543817
A weeb is a person that wants to be Jap and thinks his own culture is inferior. Japanese people can't be weebs you dumb zoomie piece of shit.

>>10545136
HEAVILY advertised in Shonen Jump. Toriyama artwork. This is why.

>>10555167
I played the Apple II version for the first time this year. It was fun and couldn't believe something like that existed in 1981 based on the atari 2600 and arcade games at the time, which were the only thing I'm familiar with

>>10555181
I've been preferring a lot more blank slate rpgs since my late 20s. Some of the story heavy rpgs of the past don't really hold up as well for me anymore and I rather just make up scenarios in my head as I go along, same with the other 2 - 8 niggas in my row.

>>10542173
Shining on Genesis still had that kinda gameplay, does any game like it count?
>>10555261
I assumed this comes from being a home computer game. idk how limited were the computers at the time but make a roguelike and you can add anything.

>>10555169
You're sounding like an annoying faggot for no good reason

>>10548019
Slimes are monster manual shit, the DQ element is the teardrop shaped thing with a face rather than the concept of a slime monster as an enemy.

>>10556478

>>10553392
>a small blob with eyes on the screen called "slime"
>le epic genius rpg creative masterpiece

>>10556741
This but unironically.

>>10555125
To me a "roleplaying game" is one where I care about the characters and the world they live in.
When the evil villain says he's gonna destroy Alefgard/Spira/Ivalice/Kamurochou/Hyrule and I (holding the controller in front of my television screen) say "That's where all my friends live! I won't let you do that!"
or when after I turn the game off and I'm brushing my teeth and I think about all my little dudes and what they're doing hanging out with each other while I'm not playing the game.
When it's real to me and I care. That's the difference between an RPG and a roleplaying game.
I don't care whether a game hands me characters or the tools to make my own as long as it gets there.

>>10555845
In comparison to other games where you shoot things out of someone's teeth to help their toothache, Ultima was mindblowing to me in hindsight as someone who thought things didn't start going that way until the NES a couple years later. Made me want to check out more computer stuff from the early 80s.

>>10556784
>caring about video game backwater villages with cardboard cutout one dimensional anime characters
I bet you're fun at parties.

>>10556798
nice projection