/vr/ - Retro Games

The answer is yes, and no.

>>10520935
Nope, because GTA3 on Dreamcast would be a downgrade in every regard. Dreamcast fans on this board can claim whatever they want, but the bottom line is that the PS2 was overall newer and more powerful hardware.

let it go man

>But what if
Christ.

>>10520935
GD roms are a joke

>>10520935
Even before GTA3, why would PS1 fans jump ship to the Dreamcast given Sega’s track record? The PS2 was an easy and sure bet.

>>10520935
Would gta 3 have functioned with one left analog? I can't remember how the camera was designed
I think it honestly would have helped, I remember getting a late PS2 when I probably would have been ok with stepped down DC ports if it had any games

>>10520967
>Would gta 3 have functioned with one left analog?
Left analog doesn't do jackshit in the PS2 version, desu. Also, everything is pratically autoaiming

>>10520970
>left analog
meant right analog, sorry lads, autism

>>10520967
GTA3 plays like an N64 game, it wasn't until SA they started using the right stick properly

>>10520976
It’s more like it controls like a Rockstar game. To this day they refuse to adapt to modern control schemes.

What if people stopped making "what if" topics in relation to SEGA?

>>10520935
It might actually have been.

>>10520942
Almost every single game on PS2 was a "downgrade" compared to the same games on other platforms. Didn't stop it from selling.

>10521034
Imagine beleebing this lmao

>>10521034
Not in the same way that a Dreamcast port of GTA3 would be. Multiple GameCube multiplats ran into the problem of cut content due to the mini DVD format. The Dreamcast would’ve been worse.

>>10521043
Also: GTA3 was originally developed as a PS2 exclusive. It was ported to other platforms much later. Claiming it was ever in active development for Dreamcast is an outright lie.

>>10520942
PS2 games look better because there are way more games for it that pushed it

Dreamcast has technically stronger than PS2

>>10520935
These threads are fucking retarded, DC was already discontinued by that point

>>10521034
>Almost every single game on PS2 was a "downgrade" compared to the same games on other platforms.
False

>>10521059
The Dreamcast hardware is from 1998 and there’s no getting around that. You can cope all you want, but the PS2 hardware was newer and more powerful.

>>10520976
>GTA3 plays like an N64 game
Nah, N64 games at least use the C buttons like a second stick. GTA was trash till SA

>>10521062
Fucking barely. PS2 was garbage hardware.

>>10521067
Typical Dreamcast fan cope. Shenmue and Shenmue 2 didn’t exactly run silky smooth and those were some of the most graphically advanced games on the system.

Jesus fucking Christ, when do you stop your fanfiction about how sega could have won?

>>10521147
I don't think these threads will ever stop being made. Honestly I don't mind at this point because I've learned to enjoy seeing Anons make completely delusional statements such as the Dreamcast being more powerful than the PS2 (yes, I'm sure Silent Hill 3 and GTA: San Andreas would look and run better on the Dreamcast)

>>10520959
My 7zipped ISO of GTAIII is 1GB. Granted lzma decompression isn't realistic on a Dreamcast. I'm sure they could have found other ways to make it work space wise.

What if segafags stopped making "what if" threads for one day?

>>10521372
They'd explode

>>10520935
>what if le thing happened :O

Die.

>>10521054
cap

>>10521059
>Dreamcast has technically stronger than PS2

dreamcast is so bad at pushing polygons

>>10521372
I got recommended a Sega Lord X video where he unironically talks about how he would save the Saturn. I thought it was a joke, but this is just what Sega fags do, as natural to them as eating and sleeping.

What if Sega double down on the twin cpus and made the Dreamcast backwards compatable with the Saturn!?!?!

>>10520935
Didn't Sony get a deal for GTA III exclusivity at E3 that year? Even if Sega had held on longer, it wouldn't have meant much aside from more games to burn onto CDRs.

>>10521657
>backwards compatible with the saturn
>when the controller has less buttons than the saturn controller

>>10521645
>not only is it real but there's TWO videos
Holy shit

>>10521554
No cap. There is zero evidence of any kind that GTA3 had any sort of working build on Dreamcast before Rockstar switched to PS2. It doesn’t exist and never did.

>>10521059
The DC had some strengths over the PS2 (namely twice the VRAM, support for texture compression, progressive scan VGA output, and hardware AA), but it wasn't 'technically more powerful' on an overall scale.

The PS2 had a CPU that was clocked faster (300MHz versus 200MHz), twice as much RAM (32MB vs 16MB), and had some hardware quirks that specific developers were able to tap into in truly amazing ways (Kaz at Polyphony Digital has gone on record saying that the PS2's fillrate was faster than the PS3's, which was something they had to adjust to when developing Gran Turismo Sport/GT5).

Areas where the DC tended to excel were things like texture quality and texture variation, which again goes back to having more VRAM. The Emotion Engine shids and fards all over the SH-4 in the Dreamcast though, so it excels in areas like polygon counts and complex (for the time) physics simulations.

Games that were developed by highly skilled people specifically to take advantage of one platform really showed this off. You couldn't port Shenmue II to the PS2 and keep its texture quality and variety any more than you could port Gran Turismo 4 to the Dreamcast and keep its insane polygon counts. Later on in its life PS2 devs were able to brute force their way past a lot of these limitations though, so you'd get games like Yakuza and GoW that were incredibly impressive for their hardware.

>>10520935
Nothing could save the Dreamcast because Sega was already on death's door thanks to the 32X and Saturn.

>>10521657
>>10521671
kek

The Dreamcast was specifically designed to be the exact opposite of the Saturn in a lot of ways, specifically to appeal to third party developers.

> One single, high powered CPU instead of dual CPUs
This made games significantly easier to develop

> 8 times as much RAM as the previous gen consoles
More memory means fewer constraints on developers, plus easier porting from other platforms

> A built in Modem that shipped with every console as well as four controller ports
Developers are significantly more likely to support a built in feature when compared to an add on, no multi-taps or modem cartridges needed

> Windows CE support
Developers could choose between a Sega developed Katana development environment or Windows CE. Katana had significantly less overhead and was faster, but Windows CE made porting games from the PC significantly easier

> A cheaper price point made the system more attractive to consumers
The Dreamcast launched at literally half the price of the Saturn in the US ($199 versus $399)

Backward compatibility would have been neat, but the amount of work that would have been required would have been completely retarded. At the time Sega was looking toward the future and getting away from the flaws of the Saturn, dragging the past along with them would have been a terrible idea. It probably would have added at least $100 to the cost of each console just to play games for a system that by that time was completely tanking in sales.

>>10520942
>the bottom line is that the PS2 was overall newer and more powerful hardware.
And Xbox looks better than PS2. What is your point?

>>10522084
The aging Dreamcast hardware was quickly outclassed by the real sixth gen hardware.

>>10522084
It's funny that you mention the Xbox considering its literally the Dreamcast 2 in everything but name

>>10522089
The aging PS2 was outclassed by real 6th Gen hardware. Aka the Xbox.

>>10522097
Not really. The PS2’s Emotion Engine was no slouch as >>10522064 pointed out. Something like GTA San Andreas or Metal Gear Solid 3 would cripple the Dreamcast.

>>10522102
PS2 was a complete visual downgrade compared to Xbox.

>>10522113
But still significantly more powerful than the Dreamcast is my point.

>>10522115
Xbox is technically superior in every way to PS2. That's the truth.

>>10522116
Sure, I agree.

>>10522116
Generally, yes. It still had issues with certain PS2 ports though. Metal Gear Solid 2 is a perfect example, the game's framerate takes a shit when certain graphical effects are onscreen (like water, which is pretty fucking prevalent in the Tanker section of the game).

>>10522102
Either of those games would be doable on the Dreamcast, they would just require certain concessions for the hardware. The Dreamcast had no issues with open world style games (Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, Headhunter, etc). The main issue would be the sheer size of the San Andreas maps, you would likely have to have more loading screens in between major areas, with areas much more compartmentalized like VC and especially GTAIII did.

MGS3 didn't do anything particularly impressive from a hardware standpoint (at least until Subsistence's new camera required much longer draw distances), a Dreamcast version would just not look as good. Mechanically something like MGS3 is basically just a series of open areas linked by smaller paths. It's very similar to Phantasy Star Online but with much prettier environments.

The PS2's hardware had some neat shit though, especially re: particle effects. Criterion said the reason that the Gamecube never got a port of Burnout 3 was because the hardware wasn't capable of handling all of the game's particle effects at 60fps like the PS2 and Xbox version did.

>>10522127
>The Dreamcast had no issues with open world style games (Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, Headhunter, etc).

None of those are at all comparable to GTA and both Shenmue games have frequent frame rate drops when you get to more crowded areas with multiple NPCs walking around. Claiming that the Dreamcast could handle San Andreas is simply ridiculous.

Playing half life 1 on dreamcast really is a eye opener about how not ready the dreamcast was for the next wave of games

>>10522129
San Andreas is not as impressive as you remember it being when it originally launched on the PS2. The fog culling was close, the character models were dogshit, and the game had plenty of framerate dips. The only real impressive thing from a mechanical standpoint was how big the world was.

>>10522131
Every leaked version of Half Life on the Dreamcast is a beta version that was unfinished. This is why you see framerate stutter and bugs with save file sizes. The game itself was very impressive, it had the entirety of the game with no cutbacks, plus an expansion (which was originally going to be a DC exclusive), and as a side bonus all of the models for the weapons, enemies, NPCs, and health/armor stations were massive upgrades from the PC version.

Not only that, but it was actually running on GldSrc. If you have a Dreamcast keyboard you can pull down the console and load multiplayer maps, and there are versions of the beta that can run pretty much every popular mod from the era (like Counter Strike and They Hunger). It also had less aliasing issues than the PS2 version, and looked amazing on a VGA monitor.

The main problem with the Dreamcast version of Half Life was the controller only having one analog stick, but it's certainly playable. I played a decent amount of FPS games on the PSP as well and the control scheme works once you get used to it.

>>10522150
>San Andreas is not as impressive as you remember it being when it originally launched on the PS2. The fog culling was close, the character models were dogshit

Still not a chance in hell the Dreamcast hardware could handle it. People like to bring up Shenmue as an example of 'open world' on Dreamcast, but it’s mostly running through corridor-like city streets connected by loading times. As for Crazy Taxi, its levels are nowhere near the size of even GTA3’s city.

>>10522150
Half-Life on Dreamcast is an impressive port, but still firmly fifth gen era looking.

>>10521062
>>10521173
>>10522089
>>10522115
Lmao.

>>10522161
That’s an example of a port, not a multiplat release.

>>10522083
congrats Sega for copying the Nogames64 3 years later, I'm sure it deserved better lol

>>10522092
just like an Alienware prebuilt is LITERALLY the Neo-Geo 2

>>10522156
>As for Crazy Taxi, its levels are nowhere near the size of even GTA3’s city.

lol

GTA 3 didn't have a "city", it had three isolated maps that required loadtimes in between. You'd know that if you actually played any of the games you talk about.

If you want to see something similar to what San Andreas would have looked like on the Dreamcast look at something like Omicron: The Nomad Soul or Urban Chaos (both of which had lard open cities, NPC pedestrians, and vehicles, plus significantly more indoor areas). The game would have ran fine, they would just need to compartmentalize the map similar to how it was in 3 and Vice City (the most likely option) or come up with some sort of level streaming (something I don't recall any games at the time using).

>>10522181
My point is that each of those "isolated maps" are much larger than Crazy Taxi’s arcade environments. Urban Chaos also has much smaller maps than any of GTA3’s environments and it’s sectioned into levels, so not really comparable. Omikron is a lot of interiors. Not so much free roaming through city streets GTA style.

>>10522092
>>10522169

> Big focus on online play
> Exclusive online community (Seganet and Xbox Live)
> Built in internet connection port (modem, then LAN)
> Controller unashamedly rips off the DC one
> More powerful than every other console at launch

Oh, and it got ports or sequels (many of which were exclusive) from the following franchises:

> Shenmue
> Sonic the Hedgehog
> Outrun
> Panzer Dragoon
> Crazy Taxi
> NBA 2K
> NFL 2K
> Phantasy Star Online
> Jet Grind Radio
> Sega GT
> Toejam and Earl
> House of the Dead
> Headhunter

It's the closest thing to a Dreamcast 2 this timeline ever got.

>>10522195
Now we know exactly how much time it takes you to watch a couple of youtube videos of games you've never heard of. Omikron absolutely has roaming through the streets anon.

P.S. This is the entirety of GTA 3. It's not even one map, each Island is its own map that requires a loadscreen to travel to. If you think the DC couldn't handle a map the size of any of theses three islands you're a retard.

>>10522161
The PS2 looks awful there. I guess the DC is really better at textures. So much sharper.

>>10522213
I’ve heard of both Urban Chaos and Omikron and they frequently get brought up as Dreamcast open world games. No, Omikron absolutely does not have free roaming in the same way as GTA3 where you can steal any car and cause a bunch of chaos. Not even remotely comparable. Same deal with Urban Chaos.

>>10522217
It’s worth noting that Quake III was ported to Dreamcast earlier and by an entirely different team than the PS2 port, which was notably shitty.

>>10522213
>If you think the DC couldn't handle a map the size of any of theses three islands you're a retard.

As evidenced by exactly zero Dreamcast games?

>>10522223
Crazy Taxi easily matches the map scale of GTA.
Runs better too.

>>10522237
No it doesn’t.

>>10522238
Yes it does

>>10522218
> Can't grab a car and drive it around
I've never played Omikron but you are literally incorrect about Urban Chaos here friend. It sounds like you don't know what you are talking about.

>>10522240
Nah. It’s an arcade game with small arcade maps. Nothing like GTA.

>>10521034
They were because of the way dreamcast handled textures. Thing is GTA3 needs high polycount pushing abilities which the dreamcast didn't have.

>>10522241
Sorry, to clarify: I meant that Urban Chaos is divided up into fairly small levels. I agree it’s maybe the closest thing the Dreamcast has to 3D GTA, but the general gameplay is more beat em up.

>>10522198
They're only similar because both were just trying to emulate a PC.
The Xbox succeed at that by having actual PC hardware that stood the test of time instead of the contrived Dreamcast which got totally outclassed just year after launch.
Microsoft had to copy the controller from someone and they chose DC's absolutely retarded design and were forced to scrap it later.
Games don't matter because the PS2 and GC also got Sega games. You can even say the Gamecube is Dreamcast 2 because of the childish design, the shit controller and the retarded disk format.

>>10522150
I can only assume you haven't played HL1 on DC, it's as close to unplayable as a game can be due to framerate. The version floating around online is the review copy sent out, it was the gold version. It was as good as it gets.

Also, all the "improved" models made for the DC version look worse then the original. I'm failry sure they are not even an option on modern HL1.

>>10522254
No, he’s right. Microsoft and Sega had partnered on the Dreamcast with Windows CE. The original Xbox definitely took a lot of inspiration from the ’cast and got multiple exclusive Sega sequels.

>>10522254
They are similar because Microsoft literally tried to buy Sega. But Sega said no.

>>10522198
>Jet Grind Radio

>>10522264
the PS2 models which ARE an option in modern hl1 literally look worse than the original as well.

>>10522275
That was the North American title for some reason.

>>10522254
the DC controller is fine, also the original concept art for the xbox controller incorporates the VMU

>>10522284
I’d say the Dreamcast controller never rises above adequate. Sega’s decision to ditch their renowned d-pad design is truly baffling and indefensible.

>>10522280
slightly different models the later ones online
t. hl autist

>>10522286
the d pad sucks but it feels nice to hold

>>10520935
DC would have been saved by half life and system shock.
They were making the bioware CRPGs too.
It was clearly made for hardcore players (dragons blood, record of lodoss war just to name the arpgs, dont have anything to be compared in the ps2 catalogue) and that's what killed it.
This was and still is the only console with good fps controls.

>>10522320
I really doubt a couple PC FPS ports would’ve moved the needle much.

>>10520935
The issue wasn't the Dreamcast. It was a fine 6th Gen machine that was affordable and economical. Cheaper than all other systems. DC was on track to sell probably 25 to 30 million at the end of a 4 year run.

The problem was that Sega was suffering severe financial problems even before DC launched. The failure of. The Sega Saturn cost the company hundreds of millions in losses. Sega was struggling to recover. They honestly didn't have the money to fully fund the DC.

Then we all know what happened. Sega went into deep debt, couldn't pay it's bills, and then declared bankruptcy. The Sega CEO used his family fortune and paid off Sega's 700 million dollar debt. Then died a few months later with his final speech to the company talking about how he believes in Sega and the Dreamcast.

>>10522330
It was more 5.5 Gen than proper sixth, but yes, Sega was in no situation to compete. Most of us waited for the sure bet PS2 rather than taking a chance on another Sega console.

>>10522320
it needed a twin stick controller. maybe they wouldve made one later on. but then it wouldve had the problem that the ps1 and saturn have of literally just not being compatible with 90% of the library made before the release of it.

>>10522326
>a couple PC FPS ports
5, not two.
https://archive.org/details/fps-collection-for-dreamcast
Here are three games ported on the DC. They are:
>Counter Strike
>Unreal Tournament
>Spec Ops 2 Omega Squad
Programming on the DC was very easy, so ports of pc games were always better than the ps2 counterparts.
As I said, normies didnt pick up on it. They played jak and dexter and other 3d platformers, because those games were targeted to kids.

>>10522357
No way it needs a second analog stick. Try playing half life on android and then try playing any fps for the ps2. The movements are very natural for hl, where you just need to do secondary stuff, like reloading, or jumping. The ps2 has way too many buttons, that were not implemented properly until the end of its lifetime.
Even if we dont talk about fps games, why did dmc use R1 for certain abilities?
The only game that used buttons properly was ICO and you could use a single stick analog for it.

>>10522347
>It was more 5.5 Gen
All that matters is the bits. Sega Dreamcast was a 128 Bit console. Therefore it's 6th Gen. DC was designed to share compatibility with their 128 Bit Naomi Arcade Hardware. To make seamless arcade ports to Dreamcast.

The biggest factor was that DC was meant to be very *affordable*. That was Sega'a goal. Sega didn't want a repeat of making an expensive console only to lose millions again to Playstation. So they went with the opposite direction. They chose a mid range CPU that was good enough, stripped out all the unnecessary frills, and invested most of the budget into the GPU. A very streamlined console.

A few people here in this thread make fun of the Dreamcast hardware, but forget that DC was sold for less than HALF the price of the PS2. No other company or system could do that.

The fact we are even comparing DC to PS2 should be a compliment to Sega. They achieved their goal of making an economical console with solid power, but still having decent power under the hood.

>>10522391
yeah but the ps5 isnt a 2384720omgwtfbbq bit console, not arguing that dc isnt 6th gen just saying that that argument falls flat immediately after going into anything beyond it.

>>10522391
Sega basically started following Nintendo's strategy. Make affordable consoles and focus on the games. Do not compete with Sony directly. Too bad Sega learned this lesson too late.

>>10522408
Bits stopped relavant around 7th generation with 360 and PS3. The whole console war just became Microsoft and Sony in the same room throwing money at eachother.

While Nintendo was off in another entire building doing their own thing.

>>10522408
the dc is a 6th gen. We have to stop on January 1, 2000 to separate two generations, it's completely stupid and arbitrary. Lots of DC games ported to PS2/GC/Xbox are better made on DC. Whether it's Shenmue 2, Rayman 2, DoA 2 or Sonic Adventure, they look better on DC. In terms of power it is much closer to the PS2 than the N64.

>>10522264
>is the review copy
>it was the gold version
2 different things, dumbass and Valve said it never went gold.

>>10522016
>zero evidence of any kind
Just shut the fuck up.

>>10522410
Bits weren't relevant pretty much ever.

Other than some math functions that games don't really need, the number of bits a cpu or GPU have is only important for memory. At 32 bits, the max amount of memory that can be addressed by the processor is 4GB. And if you haven't noticed, none of the console even had that much ram until basically modern consoles.

The N64 having a 64 bit processor was completely pointless. It did absolutely nothing.

Perhaps you remember when windows officially started supporting 64-bit?(it was pretty recent) Consider the fact that a game like Crisis was running on 32bit systems.

>>10522465
GTA3 was never in development for Dreamcast, anon.

>>10522347
>It was more 5.5 Gen than proper sixth
What defines Gen 6? Unless you can give an objective answer, then saying Gen 5.5 makes you sound silly. For me, Gen 6 was defined by having internal internet connectivity, and a proper online service. I was a big Xbox Live user. PS2 was lacking in that regard big time. Dreamcast was much better with the built in 56k modem with the optional Ethernet adapter, and Seganet service.

>>10520935
Nah man dc never needed gta gaem on its on it run almost run 2 years from start to finish straight and wuz send 2 times to sega directly to fix the fukken disc drive.

>>10522365
Meh.

>>10522528
The Dreamcast originally launched in Japan in fall of 1998, right in the prime of the fifth gen era. Overall I think Dreamcast games tend to look like really detailed N64 graphics rather than the higher poly, more detailed character models and environments seen on the 'main' sixth gen consoles.

>>10522556
thats because it was never given a chance to truly shine. most of the games are ps1 ports. the later games are an obvious step up from what we got at first.

>>10521054
Wrong. GTA 3 wasn't "developed as" a PS2 exclusive, it merely became one later on after Rockstar worked out a temporary exclusivity deal with Sony.

Before they negotiated with Sony, they actually asked Microsoft first if they wanted it as an Xbox exclusive, but MS turned them down.

>Microsoft could have had Grand Theft Auto III on Xbox first if a third-party publishing initiative called "The Star Chamber" hadn't turned down a Rockstar proposal, author Dean Takahashi claims in his new book, The Xbox 360 Uncloaked.

>In an extract published on 1UP, Takahashi reports that under J Allard's direction, The Star Chamber - a group of game managers organised to evaluate game proposals sent to Microsoft - turned down a GTA III proposal, returning it with suggestions to "beef up" the game.

https://www.eurogamer.net/news150506xboxgta3

It's entirely possible that R* would have tested a Dreamcast build of GTA 3 out in the period before any exclusivity deals were arranged.

>>10522565
I don’t know that the Dreamcast was capable of much more than we got. The two Shenmue games both had major frame rate dips in crowded areas and lots of loading times and those character models were nowhere near as detailed as the ones in MGS2 or Final Fantasy X for example.

>>10520942
If that is true, then why does the PS2 have virtually no support for progressive scan? Genuine question.

>>10522587
I’m not saying the Dreamcast had zero advantages, but I am saying the PS2 could create much higher poly character models and environments than what the Dreamcast was capable of.

I agree that one of the Dreamcast’s biggest strengths was being able to display vibrant high resolution textures that sort of fool your brain into thinking character models are higher poly than they really are.

>>10522569
>It's entirely possible that R* would have tested a Dreamcast build of GTA 3 out in the period before any exclusivity deals were arranged.

Possible I guess, but I once saw an anon claim that GTA3 was in active development for Dreamcast all the way up until Sega discontinued it in early 2001. Ludicrous.

Dreamcast just came out too early. People weren't ready for next gen at the time when PS1 was still in its heyday.

It was pretty much inevitable that PS2 was always going to win because it had so much hype. The only way PS2 could've lost is if the competition had GTA, Final Fantasy, Halo as exclusives on one system.

>>10521707
>>10521645
>midway through the video he goes on about how he would change the Saturn's hardware
Cringe, you're not really saving the console if you turn it into a completely different machine.

>>10520935
>What if Sega kept the Dreamcast going for at least one more year
No one cared about the Dreamcast by 2000.
Dreamcast is a tiny creature compared to the Playstation2

>>10522605
What is with your obsession with comparing Dreamcast to PS2? It's so cringe.

>>10522556
This is such a subjective and pointless answer.

I knew you couldn't give an objective response

You are confusing Art style with graphic fidelity. If I took your logic, I could just say the Nintendo Gamecube is Gen 5.5 since all the games like Smash Brothers and Mario look like Dreamcast games.

>>10522684
>I could just say the Nintendo Gamecube is Gen 5.5 since all the games like Smash Brothers and Mario look like Dreamcast games.

No they don’t. The character models in those games are much higher poly and more detailed than what the Dreamcast is capable of.

>>10520935
die to the technical limitations and the tettiblr controller of the Shitcast it would have flopped and eventually ported to the PS2 to save Rockstar from going bankrupt

>>10522181
>something I don't recall any games at the time using
Shenmue, Soul Reaver and Jet Set Radio (depending if you're covering the whole city) can do level streaming.
Both Crazy Taxi titles does it too i suppose.

>>10522692
>The character models
They look like a Dreamcast game. Did you even play Mario?

This looks like a game Dreamcast could play easily.

>>10522713
No it doesn’t. Mario would be way more blocky looking on Dreamcast. Luigi’s Mansion’s graphical effects are also way beyond what the Dreamcast is capable of.

>>10522713
Gamecube was the most powerful 6th gen console there is no way dreamcast could compete with gamecube graphics

>>10522713
Yeah to be fair a lot of Nintendo's gamecube games didn't push hyper detailed character models. It was mostly just bigger environments. But the graphics weren't fantastic.

>>10522675
Dreamcast fans need to stop being unrealistic about what the hardware was capable of. One anon in this very thread was claiming that Metal Gear Solid 3 would’ve been easily possible on the Dreamcast. Insane.

>>10522724
>Gamecube was the most powerful 6th gen console

THERE'S JUST NO WAY DREAMCAST COULD DO THESE AWESOME JAGGIES.

IS THAT A PLANE AND PEACH *AND* TOAD IN THE BACKGROUND?! OMG. NO WAY DREAMCAST COULD DO THAT. JUST NO. WAY.

IS THAT CLOUDS?! OMG DREAMCAST WOULD EXPLODE RENDERING CLOUDS. IT'S GEN 5.5. JUST NO WAY. CLOUDS ARE TOO MUCH.

>>10522217
The left is using a VGA input the right is through AV. That's why arena looks like shit on PS2 (one out of every 100 dreamcast users had the vga cord in 1999)

>>10522768
While Sunshine isn’t Nintendo best looking game ever, I have a hard time imagining the Dreamcast handling all its graphical effects at a stable frame rate.

>>10522785
This plus Quake III on PS2 is just a bad port compared to the Dreamcast version. They were developed by two completely unrelated teams.

>>10522786
NO YOU WERE RIGHT. LOOK AT THESE GAMECUBE GRAPHICS.

IS THAT A BUILDING? WITH A WINDOW???? SHIT... NO WAY DREAMCAST CAN DO THAT. MAYBE THE BUILDING. BUT A WINDOW TOO? THAT'S TOO MUCH FOR GEN 5.5 HARDWARE. DREAMCAST WOULD MELT.

THESE GRAPHICS ABSOLUTELY TOO MUCH AWESOME. TWO BUILDINGS AT THE SAME TIME???? OMG. THAT IS INSANE.

DREAMCAST JUST CAN'T DO IT. THIS IS SOME GEN 7 MAGIC VOODOO SH*T. HOW IS NINTENDO DOING IT????

>>10522834
Refer back to >>10522786 and re-read.

>>10522838
ANON STOP DEFENDING THE DREAMCAST.

IT'S A HOPELESS BATTLE.

DREAMCAST COULD NEVER MATCH THE GLORY OF GAMECUBE

>>10522847
>>10522786
Super Mario Sunshine on Dreamcast would be a visual downgrade in order to run at a stable frame rate.

>>10522724
>Gamecube was the most powerful 6th gen console
hahahahaha, tendie cope is hilarious.

>>10522906
Regardless, all three of the big sixth gen consoles had more advanced GPUs than the Dreamcast and could produce fancy new graphical effects and more detailed characters/environments.

>>10522912
Technically, Dreamcast had a better GPU than PS2.

What PS2 had was a much faster CPU.

>>10522937
Well either way, the PS2 got some really great looking games ones devs got a handle on Sony’s weird custom architecture. The Dreamcast would’ve really been showing its age by late 2002.

>>10522941
once devs*

>>10522941
PS2 is pure CPU brute forcing, while Dreamcast had a very good GPU but a trash CPU.
If you ask me, Dreamcast needed something like vertex/pixel shaders to mask later issues like lighting.

>>10522724
>Gamecube was the most powerful 6th gen console
>when the Xbox exists

>>10521034
Funny how everyone forgets this. Also funny how nowadays devs suddenly care more about power than sales

>>10523146
proof?

>>10523140
So that's why the DC had such bland lighting, the PS2 like the PS1 was a framebuffer machine, on the PS2 Vice City they used that motion blur effect to help mask the issues.

>>10523202
Several games that would have been impossible on other consoles such as Halo 2's multiplayer which has tons of shit going on with 16 players and vehicles, or the Xbox port of Half-Life 2 which runs a bit like shit but would have been impossible on other consoles

>>10523140
I know the Emotion Engine is the CPU but what even is the PS2’s GPU? Was it also made by Toshiba/IBM?

>>10523259
The GS is based on the PS1 GPU but built to address all shortcomings the PS1 had.

>>10520943
Are people emotionally invested in console wars from 20 years ago?

>>10523242
...those were exclusives, they weren't on other consoles for business reasons, not because they were "impossible".

I like how the sixth generation embraced backwards compatibility, the PS2 could play PS1 games, the GameCube could play the Gameboy line and the Xbox was almost able to play Dreamcast games.

>>10523419
Dreamcast played PS1 games quite well.

>>10523419
A Dreamcast emulator for Xbox doesn't sound like a crazy idea.
Didn't Chankast required like a PIII with a mid-end GeForce of the time?

>>10523526
> We hope you will be surprise, you can play commercial games at a decent speed with a 2ghz CPU. Chankast is a very fast emulator with no hle parts.
So no PIII is not enough

>>10520935
Maybe if it were a launch title.

>>10520942
Not really. GTA3 would actually look good, if not better on the Dreamcast than on a PS2. Several games looks and plays better on a Dreamcast than the PS2 version. GTA3 wasn't as graphically enhanced, even when playing the PC version. I think the only problem that the Dreamcast would struggle with is the control scheme, but even that can get simplified (just like Tony Hawk Pro Skater).

>>10522724
Most powerful? Nope. I've compared Splinter Cell on Xbox with both Gamecube and PS2, the difference is night and day because the Xbox is an absolute beast of a console with all the bells and whistles both the PS2 and Gamecube lacks.

>>10523798
dreamcast problem is low system ram and GD-rom storage capacity

>>10522326
this
half life 2 didnt sell xboxs

>>10523798
GTA3 made good use of the PS2’s superior processing and polygon pushing power. That’s the part you’re not looking at. It’s not just the character models and cars. A Dreamcast port would have to be scaled back.

SEGABROS after our thousandth what if thread we must come together to crowdfund a time machine so we can hand deliver plans on how to save the 32x to Tom-Sama…….this is our prime directive…….

>>10520935
Resident evil and tomb raider were made with the saturn in mind and everyone and their mother bought those games on playstation instead. Nobody wants shitty sega consoles that's a fact, even a sega exclusive game like crazy taxi sold a lot more on PS2 than on dreamcast.

>>10522243
It runs at 60 fps at least

>>10523810
Maybe the dreamcast should a cart slot of extra ram.

>>10523898
Resident evil was released on ps1 first actually.

>>10523898
>Resident evil
>made with the saturn in mind
Until I have any kind of source on that statement I'm gonna assume you're just making shit up

>>10523898
Yeah I’m sure that’s why Resident Evil came out on Saturn over a year later. What the fuck are you talking about?

>>10523921
Maybe you should a mouthful of extra dick.

>>10523850
there was literally nothing kalinske could do to save the saturn. it was ogre before it even started.

>>10522556
>Overall I think Dreamcast games tend to look like really detailed N64 graphics
There's plenty of games that aren't just more detailed N64 games like adventure 2 shenmue or soul calibour. The systemonly had lived 2 years so devs weren't able to make games that actually pushed it.

>>10522717
Mario sunshine honestly doesn't look like it would be too downgraded on the DC. Sonic Adventure 2 looked similar and too me the game looks good even for gamecube standards.

>>10523946
Yeah, but then there’s all the fancy water effects bells and whistles that Nintendo sold the game on.

>>10523952
>there’s all the fancy water effects bells and whistles that Nintendo sold the game on
Is that something the gamecube hardware was capable of doing or just nintendo developers being wizards and programming that water from scratch.

>>10523963
Probably a combination of both. The GameCube has a decent ATI GPU for its time, but I’m not familiar with the exact specs.

>>10523825
>A Dreamcast port would have to be scaled back.

That's exactly what people have been saying, but then you get the turbosperg who keeps yelling about how it would have been 'impossible'.

Most people either don't know or don't remember what GTA 3 actually looked like when it launched on the PS2.

>>10524424
I do know what GTA3 looked like in 2001, but I also know that the Shenmue games had some glaring frame rate issues on Dreamcast, but no one ever responds when I bring that up so I have to assume they’re misremembering.

>>10524424
The PS2 version has the usual PS2 flourishes, slick lighting, lots of fog and transparencies. The game does make up a really nice image.

>>10524424
>>10524450
are there any mods that restore these graphics for the PC version like with san andreas?