/vr/ - Retro Games

tl; dr

>>10495257
MGS fans don't ask questions. You're right about that. But I don't think Kojima gave many reasons to care about Big Boss in MGS3. I've always felt like BB was just a "Fine you hate Raiden SO much here's Snake again, but infinitely dumber. Fuck you." In 3, BB does NOTHING right the entire game. Fucks up every mission. Gets caught constantly. Only succeeds because literally everyone but him and the main antagonist (and later we learn even more people behind the scenes) are helping him to the finish line because he's THAT mentally retarded. The only reasons people will care about him are: he cries at the end and he's an autistic goof.

>>10495257
MGS3 is good as a standalone game with a clusterfuck lore that you aren't meant to overanalyze. The rest of the series could fuck off and nothing would be lost for it

He watched Star Wars prequels and ripped them off

Is propaganda in war really that farfetched? Especially after MGS2 boiled down any and all nuance to 'lol all reaching robolluminaty'.

>>10495257
Kojima is an obvious pretentious hack.

I can't believe people like him.

>>10495310
Before they started inserting more games between MGS3 and MG1, there was a large enough gap between the two that you could reasonably perceive BB going off the deep end as a result of how MGS3 ended. Where it gets weird is when you shove PW/GZ/especially TPP in there, plus 4 retconning the Patriots into the FOX support squad.

>>10495672

the last good kojimbo game was mgs2. you can starting with 3 they started sniffing his farts and let him have too much creative control and not the konami team who actually made the games good.

Amazing that Kojima invented villains, Hideo does it again!

>>10495257
The only true Metal Gear series is MG1, MG2, and MGS. Everything past that is a weird philosophy-focused spin-off bearing the Metal Gear name.

>>10495257
This is referring to (You), Venom Snake, the final boss of the first game. MGS3 is innocent. Blame MGSV.

This mgs2 text is meant to be read as written by a biased narrator.

It isn't Kojima's fault that some people have absolutely zero reading skills beyond connecting syllables to phonemes in their heads.

>>10495257
part of growing up is realizing how retarded these games were. are they fun? yes, but the thought of actually paying attention to these stories anymore is so fucking gay.

>>10495257
>muh canon
This is exactly why Westerners will constantly consume garbage like Star Wars and be unable to appreciate any other media.

>>10496007
Turns out there were two Big Bosses all along, MSXcucks on suicide watch

>>10495291
That's every Kojima protagonist. That's just how he writes protagonists, because that's what he thinks of the player.

>>10495291
I rolled my eyes when BB, a US special forces soldier, gave up his eye over some fucking spy he just met, lmao.

Kojimbo is such a moron.

>>10496643
Wait, what? Maybe I just don't remember the plot anymore but didn't he lose his eye because Ocelot was showing off with his revolvers again and one of them accidentally went off and the ricochet hit Snake?

>>10496664
its been years but no, he lost it because he took a hit for the piece of ass he just met and knew was a spy

>>10496667
Well, that's... something.

>>10496668
yea he knocked the weapon from ocelot when he was fucking with the spy bitch and he got shot for it, lmao, why he cared about her is a mystery, it's so fucking stupid considerring he's some top tier soldier and the mission should be the priority

>>10495291
The whole cast is so underdeveloped and one note that THE prequel game itself needs a prequel or two to flesh them out. The whole thing is so shallow and pretentious.

As always, Kojimbo is the source of some threads of the lowest quality.

>>10496668
>>10496670
You guys are kind of forgetting the part where Eva was his only support and she was going to help him escape and then complete the mission. He knew to go through the sewers because Eva told him about it. She snuck his gear out of Groznyj Grad. She gave him the C4. She drove the motorcycle during the chase and Shagohod fight. And she secured the WIG and was the only one who knew how to fly it.

He had plenty of incentive to keep her alive that had nothing to do with him having a hard-on for her. And it's not like he jumped in front of a bullet, he just bumped into Ocelot to throw off his shot and got unlucky. Although I kind of suspect Ocelot was waiting for him to interfere and it wasn't as accidental as it seemed. The whole incident brought the torture session to a halt and Ocelot wanted Snake alive as a diversion

>>10496018
I played Metal Gear and Big Boss is a generic shallow villain in it. The MGS timeline is unrionically sillier than the Zelda timeline, but no one cares

zoomers turning on kojima is fucking great. btfo hollywood shill.

>>10495257
I didn't get into the serirs until real late, so I missed all of the discourse for the series, but when I played through, I doubt MGS3 was the weakest of the original 3. Outside of the setting, i thought 1 and 2 were did everything a lot better. I didn't even know 3 was considered the "best" until way after I finished the series. Hell, I didn't even know Raiden was hated, too. I liked him more than Snake.

>>10496780
Sorry Kojima, you're story sucked ass.

>>10495257
>heh did you know there's a retcon in MGS???
I assume you're just playing them for the first time ever? Almost every bit on MGS1 is a retcon, MGS fans are well aware. MGS1 is pretty much a soft reboot, MG1-2 are considered soft canon, the overall plot of those games happened but the exact details have been getting retconned all the time. That's why I wouldn't mind a remake of MG1-2, there's pretty much no canon version of those games, they won't even mess with canon if they remake them.

>>10497018
>no one cares
Because there's always been an understanding that MG1-2 isn't really canon. Until zoomers came along and now it has to be explained all over again

>>10495257
>Suddenly Kojimbo wants us to take him seriously as a protagonist and care about him
I think the average MGS fan pisses themselves laughing when Ocelot makes the cat sound and says "I love this game".

>>10495257
Replaying some MGS games and skimming the info on previous games made me even more aware of how atrociously silly the series is, especially when it comes to the MSX games and Peace Walker.

>>10497434
True. It's serious, and seriously fucking funny. So much shit like this in mgs3 games. Getting peed on as raiden and calling rose/Campbell, "my name's Jennifer", volgan comes out as gay by grabbing snakes metal gear, slipping on birdshit, trying to shoot birds and they shit on your face (I laughed fucking at this), etc... it's so fucking off the wall

>>10497452
Mgs*

>>10496018
Not this shit again.

Didn't you learn your lesson when you got caught with your pants down on /v/? So now you're dodging the term "unreliable" and calling it "biased narrator?" Are you trying to somehow spin your faux pas into some mini meta narrative? Be sure to include my comment in the epic breakdown you mail Kojima at the end! I want to be a part of history and get featured in a MGS game too. I'm your foil. It wouldn't be fair to omit me.

>>10497413
>>10497432
>muh canon
As if it matters, Big Boss ACKCHUALLY being Solid Snake in the past is some fanfic shit.

>>10496004
Tbh, MGS3 is a nice game, gameplay-wise.

>>10497582
But it isn't, just more janky ass slog with 0 difficulty and useless mechanics (映画ゲー)

>>10495257
I now accept the fact that the events of Snake Eater were highly embellished, and Portable Ops, Peace Walker, and V/Ground Zeroes are nothing more than tall tales.

>>10495257
>mg
big boss gives you wrong instructions on purpose to troll you and get you killed because he's a double agent
>mg2
big boss is back somehow and gives you a pretentious speech
>mgs
big boss is frequently called the worlds greatest soldier and all the genome soldiers have his genes implanted because he's the best. Snake is revealed to be some weird judge dredd style clone of big boss
>mgs2
big boss is still called the worlds greatest soldier and solidus snake wants to be him but better.

There was no big boss retcon in mgs3, you're just talking out of your ass. Nothing in your OP pic contradicts what happened in mg1.

>>10497830
>Nothing in your OP pic contradicts what happened in mg1.
Nothing in your weird cope post changes the fact that Big Boss is a very generic Bond villain in 1 and 2, an evil piece of shit and mass murderer and therefore a stupid protagonist to go with and retcon into a charismatic hero in 3

>>10497603
Wouldn't call 3 bad but it's for sure flawed

>>10495257
2 = 1 > 4 > 3 > 5

>>10495260
This website is 90% text

>>10496643
Kojima is a movie buff and knows that drama and storytelling are more important than inane details or muh realism. I bet you watch cinema sins too.

>>10497404
>no argument
>"you're story"

>>10498169
For once I agree with one of these kinds of posts.

>>10498169
3 is really overrated. The jungle setting felt forced and wasn't really fun after the initial wow effect which lasted like 15 minutes

Metal Gear was always cartoony.

>>10497404
Nah, it was good.

>>10499413
agreed, and the frame rate took a huge hit which definitely hurt the game. going from mgs2's buttery smooth gameplay to the mgs3 slideshow was a huge downgrade.

>>10499581
It's not hard to hold 60FPS when every location is smaller than a japanese apartment.

>>10498182
Ed Wood posts on /vr/?

>>10497413
>MG1-2 are considered soft canon
To be fair. They weren't really that soft canon until MGSPW and MGSV pretty much burned the timeline so fucking much that only the Solid games matter now.
Hell, even MGS4 had several moments that basically acknowledged MG1-2 as still being pretty canon and that more-or-less everything that had happened there had actually happened in the MGS timeline.
MGSPW and V shit all over it. Even PO did a better job at bridging the gap than PW and V.

>>10501594
What the fuck are you talking about, MGS1 and later 3 retcon pretty much everything from those games. According to those games all that happened there is:
>Snake Destroys Metal Gear and kills Big Boss
>Snake kills Gray Fox and Big Boss (for real this time)
>Campbell and Miller were there too
No mention of Pettrovich, Marv, OILIX. Hell, Snake even forgot how he used a shape-memory alloy key in MG2, fucking Otacon tells him how to use one in MGS. PW and V at least tried to course correct some of the details after MGS3 tried to turn Snake into a good guy At the end of PW BiBo has a nuke-equipped Metal Gear of his own and in V goes into hiding to later command Foxhound while his body double commands Outer Heaven, explaining how he was doing both in MG1

inb4
>new retcons bad, old retcons good
Fuck off, it was always bullshit

>>10496196
>This is exactly why Westerners will constantly consume garbage like Star Wars and be unable to appreciate any other media.

Star Wars is huge in the East. Easterners rip if off constantly in their anime, movies, and games.

>>10503464
They like Star Wars purely at an aesthetic level, yes.
This is also ignoring that Star Wars itself was a ripoff of Akira Kurosawa films, but anyways, my point is Westerners consume franchise shit and obsess over canon. I use Star Wars as an example of that because you can't talk about it without some fag bringing up some shitty novel nobody on the planet has read to go "Yeah it's bad."
Databooks also exist and are popular in Japan, but nobody actually gives a shit about them beyond fan service or incredibly obscure SF bloggers. It's also why nobody in Japan gave a shit when Big Boss' backstory got retconned in 3, or MGS4 invalidating 2's conclusion.

Solid games aren't canon

>>10503487
>Star Wars itself was a ripoff of Akira Kurosawa films
You've never even seen The Hidden Fortress, like every geek who parrots this factoid.

Kurosawa ripped off John Ford's westerns infinitely more than George Lucas ripped off Kurosawa.

>>10495724
You have to keep in mind the presentation level of these games back in the day, paired with gameplay that was at the least decent. These days there are lots of MGS-adjacent games that have lush movie-game qualities, so it's not as clear why they and he was a big deal anymore. In other words, you out yourself as a youngin and you weren't there.

This thread is a circus

>>10506467
Lucas ripped off Flash Gordon and other old serials a lot too. Then a bunch of Westerns also ripped off Kurosawa. What of it? Everyone rips off each other. As long as you do it well it doesn't matter.

>>10502626
>Later games retcon Miller's original name as a lame pun on McDonald's because he started a burger franchise on the side and "Kazuhira" wasn't as marketable
Ugh...

Reminder that Snake defeated Big Boss by lighting up a can of deodorant.

>>10506834
Compared to the BS of later games, this isn't weird at all.

>>10506467
In that case we could also talk about how Indiana Jones copied Tintin, about how super heroes copied polytheistic religions, about how Star Wars copied Valerian aside from Flash Gordon and Kurosawa, about how the Homeric words copied the Epic of Gilgamesh also creating also the basis for more recent works like The Lord of the Rings...

>>10506834
hes also a grown man in a life or death situation who runs around in a cardboard box like a looney tunes character. this series has never been anything but pseudointellectual slop for retards.

>>10497018
>The MGS timeline is unrionically sillier than the Zelda timeline
Not even close. The games were pretty straight forward sequels from previous games except for MGS3 being a prequel which had easily identifiable sequels with PW then TPP (POOPs is not considered canon). The games all clearly identify what year they take place with established continuity (MG1/2 may not have but MGS identifies it) so an actual timeline is actually one of the least convoluted parts of the story.

Zelda on the other hands was clearly never intended to have a timeline. Aonuma just pulled some shit out of his ass about OoT splitting off into 3 timelines and games have little continuity between other games. Story wise the only major plot point that really is shared is that there will be a Link, Zelda, Ganon, Master Sword, and Triforce. Other than a few major plot similarities like this most Zelda games are far disconnected from each other with a few exceptions like OoT > MM which is a major outlier in the way it's a direct sequel with the same Link as the main character.

>>10506894
>POOPs is not considered canon
HAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>10506832
It was worth it desu, burger tapes were pretty based

>>10506886
Tell me he wasn't right on target with the Patriot's take on the internet and people shitting it up, and corporations/governments with Patriot-like censorship initiatives as we're seeing it now. Tell me who else laid it out so clearly in 2001, or how he was wrong. The rest is schlock and slop, sure, but that point in particular was perfectly on target.

>>10507070
Plato

>>10507070
Our entire internet isn't routed through a giant robot, bro.

>>10507070
>Tell me who else laid it out so clearly in 2001
Anyone espousing an undergrad understanding of postmodernist philosophy and had read the selfish gene before 2001... literally all mgs's philosophic musings are from preexisting books (mostly speculative fiction that kojima read).

>>10495257
>Just makes me feel like the average MGS fan doesn't even ask questions and just consumes
i think its more the fact the average MGS fan likely started on MGS. they likely wouldnt own an out-of-date japanese computer either, and couldnt play the original even if they wanted to

theres also the part of kojimbo being a pretty lowbrow action movie/comicbook tier writer in general. very good at making those dumb action tropes tie in to game mechanics/design however

>>10507070
deus ex hit a lot of the same notes, arguably a lot more coherently
also predicted some other stuff MGS missed

>>10495257
I love MGS2 and 3 and pretty much couldn't care less about the story. The gameplay is so fun it steals the show.

>>10507513
>The gameplay is so fun it steals the show
yea its this
i think the story does its job though
you feel like youre playing some totally over-the-top comicbook

>>10507513
>The gameplay is so fun
Yeah, walking forward and tranqing dumb ruskies is so much fun! I love the point A to point B stealth gameplay with maps smaller than the ones from Mario 64! And the pressure sensitive buttons add so much depth to the gameplay! Trans rights!!!

>>10497018
The only really silly thing to me is how in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 (MSX) the titular Metal Gears looks like frogs with some missiles attached to the side, then in Metal Gear Solid a lot of fuss is made about Rex having a rail gun and other nifty features.
But if we go back in the timeline (but forward in game releases) in Peace Walker there is a colossal Metal Gear that transforms and has a ton more features than the frogs, and then ZEKE that looks pretty much exactly like Rex, had same or even better features.
And then there is Sahelanthropus that is a tranforming mecha that looks straight out of Zone of the Enders, with metallic forming energy black whips that can create giant spikes, AI pod, and even has a railgun too (yeah it was helped by kid Mantis with his powers but still).
Why was Otacon so excited about Rex anyways? All of this stuff before the frogs in the timeline.

I know the games were developed in the span of decades and mecha design changed a lot, but couldn't they have some restraint when designing Metal Gears that happened years before the lamer ones?

>>10498062
I wouldn't say Bond, maybe more inspired by Kurtz, in MG2:SS at least. But you kind missed the point of using him as the protagonist in MGS3, I don't think the idea was to make him sympathetic (more than enough to understand what set him in motion) as much as showing that if Solid Snake had been the one in that situation, he might not have become the man and hero that saved the world from Metal Gear.

>>10507186
Prism

>>10497384
>Hell, I didn't even know Raiden was hated, too. I liked him more than Snake.
The main reason is that all the marketing and preview footage showed you playing as Snake, and then surprise! You play the little blonde fuccboi

>>10496196
>This is exactly why Westerners will constantly consume garbage like Star Wars and be unable to appreciate any other media.
Projecting much, such as how Easterners will constantly consume garbage like Naruto and One Piece and never be able to appreciate other media?

>>10508706
i know you're trying to reverse it and expose his silliness, but japs eat up western garbage enormously making it goofier. perhaps a bit too much. kojimbo himself is probably a good example of this

>>10507775
Emmerichs designed the cool ones, MG1/2 were made by a russian hack on the cheap because Big Boss was desperate

>>10495257
>if you don't let this retcon from a game no one played shape your entire opinion about a completely different game you are just a mindless consumer
obese ego

>>10497404
>Kojima
Absurd. Kojima doesn't know English. That's clearly Geoff Keighley.

>>10510416
He knows English but his speaking skill is awful