/vr/ - Retro Games

>Dragon Warrior most influential
>Not Wizardry, the one which influenced Dragon Warrior in the first place
whatthefuckamireading.jpeg

also what games did Tony Hawk influence?

>space invaders
>colossal cave adventure
>wizardry
>pac-man
>ultima 4
>elite
actual top 6. egm shills can eat my fucking ass.

>>10493803
I assume skating games but skating games aren't that big aside from tony hawk itself.

>>10493803
its flavor of the month shill business. what do you expect?

>>10493839
To add to Wizardy, Wizardry IV invented the monster collecting game concept https://www.mobygames.com/game/1272/wizardry-the-return-of-werdna-the-fourth-scenario/

>>10493803
>>10493843
tony hawk basically changed the face of sports games going forward. jsr, aggressive inline, ssx, freekstyle, sledstorm, downhill domination, even spyro and jak were throwing down on skateboards after tony hawk.

>>10493803
Wizardry may have influenced the DQ series, but DQ influenced literally everything else. It’s also more fondly remembered.

>>10493854
>it started a small subgenre that died off after a decade
Hardly a top 5 achievement, more like top 50.

>>10493891
>>it started a small subgenre that died off after a decade
So did Mario 64, but that only lasted like 5 years.

>>10493873
The influence of Wizardry.
>Ultima III
>Dragon Quest
>Portopia
>Pokemon
>Megami Tensei
>Final Fantasy
>Dungeon Master
>Ultima Underworld
>Demons Souls
>Sweet Home
>Tower of Druaga
>Zelda
>Might and Magic

bump

>>10493891
>died off after a decade
It's an article from 2002, anon.

>>10493896
It pioneered a 3D control scheme that's still popular, especially the camera stuff.
>>10493953
That's why you don't put FOTM stuff on lists like that. You never know how long the THPS/DDR/Guitar Hero craze is going to last

>>10493797
>THPS
>influential
a good series sure, but influential? on what exactly? the number of skate series out there you can count on 1 hand

>>10493848
wizardry codified all rpgs on a mechanical basis (party creation, turn based command system, final boss with actual backstory) and the art of dungeon crawling.

>>10493969
>It pioneered a 3D control scheme that's still popular
vague nonsense, most games do not function like this.
>especially the camera stuff
more games share croc's camera than mario 64's button based camera.

>>10494009
>nintendo invented lock on with zelda
even though it was already used in virtual-on two years early lets forget about that. same myths paraded around.

Too high or well deserved?

>>10494040
best in the series so deserved

>>10494009
>>10494020
Influential doesn't mean first. Doom wasn't the first FPS but it is the most influential one.

>>10494043
FF6 was the top RPG

>>10494047
influential means it influenced things, these days we're lucky to get games which move you at more than two speeds on an analog stick. Nobody does it the way mario did, and the camera equation was well beyond mario at that point. Cheapening it to "well this also had thing!!!" completely delegitimized what mario did in the first place. Other games do not do it that way,

>>10494040
>it introduced the job system
Didn't FF3 do that?

>>10494051
Yeah you're totally right. No game is exactly like Doom or SMB or DQ or SF2 so none of those are influential either. Nothing is influential as long as you're willing to nitpick and pretend to be retarded

>>10494047
>the game they stole it from doesnt matter!
the logic of a brand addict.

>>10493873
Other way around.

>>10493797
EGM has always been a fad-chasing shit-show. It's why they're still around.

The level of milk-toast fence-sittery on this list is not surprising in the slightest.

In terms of "influence", Super Mario 1 and Mario 64 didn't influence shit.

>>10493797
>24 Sega games on the list
Nowadays it would be a surprise if they got 3 in a top 100 games ever list.

>>10493797
>Tony Hawk
only ameimutts care about skating shit, it had ZERO popularity or influence in the rest of the world

>>10494146
America is the only country that matters

>>10494159
Japan*

>>10494134
There's unironically nothing wrong with their top 50 at all.

>>10494108
>In terms of "influence", Super Mario 1 and Mario 64 didn't influence shit.
Why lie like this?

The ACTUAL most important game of all time is Dungeons and Dragons. People can bang the drum of Ultima, Wizardry, etc, all they want, but all those concepts come from D&D originally. Loot, EXP/level up, hit points, open world, NPCs, bosses, dialogue, companions - Dungeons and Dragons practically created all those things in any meaningful way.

>>10493803
Most of the gaming public is stuck in a mindset where only consoles exist. And the public likes to have their own ideas reinforced not challenged. If there was a list of great or influential games and it was a bunch of stuff they never heard of and their favorite things were not on it they would just stop supporting that outlet.

>>10493839
ah elite good choice there. first game with procedural generation and a true sandbox.

>>10493797
Popularity polls are retarded

1) Most people are idiots. That's a fact. Average IQ is at best 100. You shoudn't care what most people think is the best of anything
2) Only idiots are bored enough or insecure enough to partake in polls like that

That's literally TWO layers of retardation effacing any potential value such polls could entail. You should hope your favorite game isn't "winning" them

/thread

>>10494270
the application in video game form is what's important. go back and play the oubliette versus wizardry...or ultima being the first tilestep game with tons of systemic depth. japan had no concept of d&d either. for a lot of them wizardry was their first exposure to role playing games of any kind (including tabletop/video game) and they mention it constantly.

>>10494323
>japan had no concept of d&d either
This has been comprehensively debunked eons again.

>>10494330
interviews from namco/endo, t&e soft, falcom, and horii all mention wizardry. of course i shouldnt generalize to the entire country, but for a certain number of these developers it appears to be true. masanobu endo mentions both in particular. the great teacher in common was wizardry.

>These lists never have Tetris

>>10493797
n

>>10493797
I agree with 1/3/4 but 2/5 never influenced anything

>>10494270
>>10494323
>>10494341
it's tough to say because yeah for sure, D&D is absolutely the base for RPGs as a whole with its roots in wargaming (so logically we should thank the likes of "Chainmail" and war sims in general as well), but it's hard to say how far reaching it is in the form of actual video game developers. D&D inspired a ton of attempts at adapting it in the 1970s in interactive computer text adventure/dungeon crawler form but those were so loose, esoteric and obscure that most of the devs had no idea their contemporary rivals even existed as most of them were cooked up as personal projects by bored college kids for shits and giggles. not even sure if that could be considered influential by definition. these predate Wiz and Ult for sure as well and "did it first" but no one is ever citing them as an influence, with even Richard Garriott failing to acknowledge those games even after making one himself

as far as japan and JRPGs goes at least, wiz would still be king going by just who developed what. D&D itself wasn't necessarily anything special in that country as far as tabletop RPGs go too, they already had homebrewed ttrpgs and alternatives before it was ever localized there. this doesn't mean D&D's DNA isn't present though, it just was never in the mind of creators (even though it might have been for Wiz' own devs)

but then there's shit like FF1, where it absolutely couldn't exist without outright lifting shit directly from D&D...

>>10494052
Yeah but it never made it to na until the ds release.

>>10494040
>(FF Anthology Version)
Yuck

>>10493803
>Muh shitty crpgs
Get dunked on faggot.

>>10493803
Tony Hawk's influence not just gaming but had cultural impact. Should've been no.1 in my opinion.

>>10493839
EGM very explicitly didn't cover arcade or computer games, else I can imagine we'd see some of those on their list.

>>10493797
THPS is underappreciated.

>>10493803
>also what games did Tony Hawk influence?
Its engine was used for the 1st 3D Spider-Man video game, which was a huge success because of it and Neversoft's efforts... and look at what Spider-Man has become in the video game scene.

>>10494548
D&D basically came later even for the otaku, that's how Japan describes it themselves. Western RPGs first (mostly imported for the few imported systems they had, it took a while for most of them to get more easily accessible native system ports as you said), early Japanese attempts based on that and then finally the ports and homegrown succeses. D&D kinda hopped in between phases 2 and 3. That's not to say it or alternatives to it didn't exist, but most of the early programmers who made RPGs based their experiences on western RPGs with most of them never having played a tabletop roleplaying game in their lives. Was interesting to read up on.

>>10493898
Influence of DQ:
>every JRPG ever

>>10493803
>y can't be influential if it is even slightly derivative of x
Fuck off retard. Go jerk off Bertie the Brain

Westerners greatly exagerate Dragon Quest 1's importance. In Japan they know that DQ2 was the one which was the most influencial. After DQ1 Japanese RPG makers were still searching for their identity and experimenting. Then DQ2 came along, and everyone suddenly knew what a "JRPG" was to be like.

>ultima and wizardry no they dont matter at all
why is it always the gay snot nosed kids who come in and say this. its like a collective level of console infused brain rot.

>>10495343
If they have that poorly researched a game that they claim is one of the 5 most important games in the world it means they would understand even less about any other game they would talk about. Enough so they would be incapable of ever writing a sentence worth reading. I know game jounralism being worthless has been standard for deckades but just think about how profound it is that they are here to tell us what they think is one of the most important things they will ever write (any list of most influential games is going to be that by definition) and they can't even get the basics right.

>>10495554
westerners are only good at repeating the same soundbytes over and over. in the case of gaming it means reciting some very poorly sourced mythologized "facts".

>>10493803
Knew this would be the first reply. Literally can’t say that DQ was influential without someone bringing up Wizardry.

>>10494159
keep telling yourself that burger

>>10495763
console gamers are being persecuted!

>>10495768
Touch a nerve? You clearly have some kind of agenda.

>>10493803
yes, Wizardry was influential. except it's unplayable to 99% of people today. even back in the day it was not accessible to anyone but nerds.
DQ was made for actual human beings. it is grindy, but perfectly playable even today; hundreds of games copy its gameplay anyway.
most games copied the DQ blueprint, not the Wizardry blueprint. CRPG fags can seethe all they want, maybe try not to make 2deep4u games with retarded mazes and encounters you have no chance of surviving.

>>10494298
Exactly this
>Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values. People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias is insuperable for most people, but they can manage it, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills.

It's also why you see popular games getting good reviews even if they're actually shit but just successfully hyped. If you're someone who bought into the hype and even pre-ordered the game, are you gonna support the outlet that says the game you paid for is great, or the one that says it's shit?

>>10494298
yes and no. speaking of Wizardry, it's just way too rough and old. you didn't play it, and neither did anyone you know. it had huge influence—influence on better games.
ignoring Wizardry isn't a bias, ignoring stuff like all the PC strategies, 90s RPGs and Diablo is. FPS gets more than enough recognition, Doom / Quake / HL get jerked everywhere, and if you think otherwise, you have a persecution complex.
>Most of the gaming public is stuck in a mindset where only consoles exist.
most of the PC fags are stuck in a mindset where only PC exists.

This thread is proof /vr/ has gone to the shit

I love THPS, but I'm not sure it influenced THAT much.

>no one has ever played the most famous rpg series
the thread.

>>10495978
Pretty sure that goes something like Final Fantasy, Elder Scrolls, World Of Warcraft (Yes I'm counting it), and in the middle you got your Dragon Quest and way down you got your Wizardry and Ultima.

>>10495986
There is no reality where Final Fantasy is a bigger deal than Ultima. That would be your own ignorance speaking. In fact not a series you listed even exists without Ultima and the first three are complete copies respectively of Ultima III, Ultima Underworld and Ultima Online.

>>10496010
Being influential doesn't make it famous, it just makes it all the more embarrassing when the copies hit it bigger.

>>10496013
Here's the thing. You've shown us ignorance and that you value sales metrics over definitive game history and relative influence. Why should anyone take you seriously? Marketing trumps all in your world. It's like claiming the most important game ever made is Angry Birds and other mobile filth. Unless you own stock in these companies I don't understand the aggressive shilling.

>>10496037
>the most famous rpg series
I don't make the rules. Go ask about Ultima's fame outside of your mother's basement.

>>10495131
>and look at what Spider-Man has become in the video game scene.
Which is what? Licensed movie crap?

>>10495903
I love how everyone is taking a shitty magazine piece this seriously.

>>10495903
this place is /v/lite now.

>>10494167
Tetris has no business on there

Crazy how you would never see a game like Gunstar Heroes or OutRun on a mainstream list anymore. They would be replaced with four variations of Dark Souls. Gaming has fallen far.

>>10497150
People will still be shilling the original NES version of Tetris though

>>10497150
That's because four variants of Dark Souls are each better than both Gunstar Heroes and Outrun combined you idiot.

>>10495307
DQ 2, not 1.

>>10497170
see: >>10496885 >>10495903

>>10495794
>most games copied the DQ blueprint, not the Wizardry blueprint.
They copy DQ2 blueprint, not 1. DQ 1 has not influenced that much game, anon. Just see how many jrpgs were released between DQ 1 and 2 and how much of them are anything like what DQ 2 become. Then see all the JRPGs released after DQ 2, including FF, and see how more similar to 2 than to 1 they are.

>>10494695
There wouldn't be another NA release for another 4 years and the SNES translation hack wasn't out til years after that.

>>10493839
Actual top 6, in no particular order:
>Space Invaders
>Rogue
>Wizardry
>Doom
>GTA 3
>Super Mario Bros.

>>10497882
Based videogame enjoyer

>>10493797
Dragon Warrior is a weird pick. Tony Hawk kind of makes sense in the context of 2002 since it spawned a LOT of extreme sports games, though idk if I would put it in the Top 5 over stuff like Sonic or Castlevania. And I say this as a fan of the og THPS as it was one of my favorite PS1 games at the time

>>10493797
That's literally just wrong, and retarded

Tony Hawk influenced nothing besides some shitty Disney game

>>10498503
Extreme sports games were big in the west in 2002 anon, we got Mat Hoffman, Dave Mirra, Kelly Slater, Razor Freestyle, Teck Deck games... We almost got a Sonic skateboard game based on the same engine too. To say nothing of the impact it had on pop culture in general

Again not necessarily something I would put in the Top 5 but in the context of 2002 I can see why they would list it as that's when the fourth game came out, the series and its spin-offs/clones were still very relevant then

>>10493969
Mario 64 pioneered controlling a character from a third person perspective in 3D environments for sure. Tomb Raider came first but it had that weird grid-based movement system rather than fluid analog movement.

>>10498709
You could also argue that Tony Hawk is one of the first big hit games to feature a licensed soundtrack with big name contemporary bands.

Apologize.

>>10498769
If I'm being annoying about it, it's predated by Road Rash on the SEGA CD and 3DO and a few other racing/sports games, but THPS was probably bigger than those

>>10498780
Or Green Jelly doing the soundtrack for Maximum Carnage, although that’s a bit different.

>>10498780
>probably
The difference in popularity is planetary.

>>10493797
Why is Super Mario Bros. number one?

>>10498769
That was also a fad and quickly stopped. Games would rather have original soundtrack and not run into licensing problems for ports later on. Licensed soundtrack is also restrictive in melding with the game, only fit for games where people fuck about in an empty room (like THPS).
About the only games with licensed soundtrack now are rhythm games, and even some rhythm games go with original soundtrack as well.

>>10497882
>the game that invented all adventure games isnt important
>the game that put driving and shooting together is top 6
>the game that ripped off pacland
yep thats a lil zoomie.

>>10496049
>Which is what? Licensed movie crap?
All I meant is that it has become a big deal, I mean, look at how popular it is, getting nominated for awards and all, selling more than pretty much all other PS5 titles... when I was a kid it didn't feel like Spider-Man was as big with all people like it is now, the Raimi films really changed that, but I feel Neversoft's title did some work. I'm not too happy with that though.

I sort of miss when Spider-Man was less mainstream than now, because I agree with you, the new video games by Insomniac are garbage that's made to cater to modern consumers.

One week they'll play Spider-Man, which has to fill all of the 3rd person cinematic Sony exclusive requirements, and then they'll move on to the next thing to consume, it's not important. I mean, this isn't /v/ so I shouldn't talk too much about this, but as a Spider-Man fan since the 90's, the current films, shows and video games are a pain to look at, a huge disappointment really.

>>10493803
Dumb argument
The Beatles were influenced by Buddy Holly, The Beatles were also infinitely more influential than Buddy Holly
You'll understand it one day I'm sure

>>10499082
First in a genre is not automatically most influential.

>>10499187
was Buddy Holly the Pac-Land of /mu/?

>>10494108
>In terms of "influence", Super Mario 1 and Mario 64 didn't influence shit.
LMAO, XD even.

>>10498952
Don’t most EA sports and racing games and obviously GTA still have a bunch of licensed music?

>thps
???????

>>10494108
(you) useless faggot lmao

>>10500235
EA Sports games are almost entirely devoid of music now. Same for racing games.
GTA counts, but it's only used for the in-game car radio. Outside of that, it's all original.

>>10493797
It's actually not that bad of a list.

>>10500242
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.

>>10493797
the most impressive thing about the top 100 was that ocarina of time and mario 64 weren't #1.

>>10493854
yeah bro all the millions of gamers lining up for those gems, I remember that

>>10494787
you tony hawk idiots are the biggest retards in vidya. take a step outside your suburban skatepark and take a gander over at other games. j

>>10497882
wow, someone with an actual brain.

>>10494052
FF1 did.

>>10493803
That's correct, though. Many more games were directly influenced by the design decisions DQ made. The fact Wizardry is their great grandfather doesn't automatically make it solely influential. It's not transitive.

>>10501581
https://nba.2k.com/2k23/2kbeats/

That doesn’t seem to be true. Madden, NBA2K, Forza. All have plenty of licensed music.

>>10502715
FIFA as well. All the major annual EA sports titles have licensed tracks.

>>10502424
I know