/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10345921
Or vast convincing 3D worlds like this with different biomes and shit

>>10345921
Because PS1 and Saturn were made 2 years earlier and were built to do different things. It's honestly kind of a self explanatory question if you just look at it for a second. Some people have the tendency to assume that consoles from the same "generation" have the same capabilities. This isn't necessarily true. This is also true in the fact that while the N64 has stronger CPU/memory, Saturn and PS1 had the advantage of CD's, which can hold hundreds of times of more data.

Why are people only posting emulator screenshots in wrong resolutions and aspect ratios?

>>10345984
the n64 is better when you:
>emulate on a platform over 1000 times more powerful
>don't use the original controller
>inject new textures
>override the awful filters
>do a full source decompilation 30 years after the fact
>refuse to play any other console as it might challenge your perspective
>swap the models with higher fidelity ones
>inject shaders
>spend all your time posting on 4chan about how much better it is
>are a 44 year old unemployed man

>>10345921
The N64 supported perspective-correct texture mapping, so you didn't need as many polygons to render a convincing scene. A game like Perfect Dark would probably run on a PSX but would suffer from warbling

>>10345938
>They don't have anything like this, though
Give me Sega Rally graphics and gameplay any day of the week.

>>10345921
The framerate in Perfect Dark and the two Zeldas is was way too low. In F-Zero both the cars and the racing circuits have very little detail.
Some of the screens you're sharing also come from emulator or directly from ports for more powerful consoles.

>>10345921
The N64 was technically speaking the most powerful of the bunch and had the least games.
The real issue with it is that no one knew how to make games for it and those who did didn't see it worthwhile to take the time to make games for something so late in the gen, dreamcast was already around the corner and PC gaymin was already doing most of what the N64 could do.

Not to mention by the time most of the games you listed came out Dreamcast and PS2 were already out specifically in conkers case even the Xbox was already out when that game was finished. This is much like how later PS2 games released in 2005+ come close to early 360 titles and in some cases even early PS3 titles.

>>10345998
>>10346003
N64 had graphics on par with dreamcast.

>>10345921
The Zelda games on N64 were the peak of video games and it was all downhill after that

>>10345927
god i wish there were more n64 zelda games. mm and oot were kino.

>>10345997

>>10346008
I know it's a rather simple game but I wish there was a translated rom

>>10346018
Soul

>>10345935
This is pretty crazy desu. Should have become standard afterwards.

>>10346024
medal of honor did it better, turns out having enemies that fight you is more fun than enemies that dance for you

>>10346030
Got a clip of MoH doing it better?

>>10346016
there's nothing that really fills the void for me, Windwaker is too easy and Twilight Princess is boring and soulless, after that it only got worse. There are great 2D Zelda games but they feel like a completely different animal to me, do not give me the same satisfaction

>>10345938
Nothing can beat the aesthetic look of PS1 racers.

>>10346058
>Windwaker is too easy and Twilight Princess is boring and soulless
TP's soul just goes over your head

>>10346070
To be honest, that specific game looks more like a Saturn title, even though it's on PS1. Picrel is more of a PS1 style. N64 can't have these lens effects.

>>10346167
Or this crispness

>>10346008
On what basis did you form this belief?

>all screenshots posted ITT are upscaled in emulators

>>10345921
>windows becoming more see-through when closer
This is neat

squaresoft games were the most impressive of the whole gen
ff8, ff9, vagrant story, tobal 2

>>10345921
The dude falling off the roof must be scripted. The death animations were all motion capture, not physics based. Still impressive and the game itself is still better and more fun to play than most modern FPS games.

Also someone should point out that there are what looks like emulation and/or remaster videos and screenshots being posted. If you want to show off the capabilities of any console, you should be posting captures from actual hardware, or at least emulators using settings that closely replicate output from original hardware. Otherwise, you are simply showing off the abilities of modern emulators and hardware.

Lastly, no discussion of the visuals of games like Conker and Perfect Dark is complete without mentioning the trash framerates and blurry textures due to the N64 cartridge storage capacity.

>>10346158
It's Ocarina of Time remade by an AI

>>10345921
The N64 had a strong CPU with an FPU and a C/C++ compiler as standard. Sure, the performance you get doing raw C++ to the nintendo GL API was going to be dogshit, but the simplicity meant developers could piss around with demo code super easy and try out all sorts of crazy shit. Then optimise the crap out of it once they knew what they were making.
The Saturn and the PS1 had the problem that even just doing basic 3D meant you needed optimised fixed point and vector code that could operate on the DSP and VU respectively and doing this sort of work from C was a total pig and it would always get in your way. And where floating point based polygon rendering tends to fail gracefully when you hit the limits, fixed point pixel grid texture warping fails disgracefully with any remotely degenerate polygon so you waste a whole lot of time fighting the damn thing just to get anything done. This greatly limits the time and the will you have to experiment.

>>10346058
true and agree. Have you played Missing Link? It's the only decent oot hack

>Why was the best 3D on the vastly most powerful 3D console?
Dunno. Witches?

>>10346352
>He thinks rasterisation was done on the CPU
That's a lot of words to say that you have no idea what you're talking about, anon

>>10346314
it has been said that several Rare interns died during the motion capture of that scene where the man falls off the roof

The Saturn and PlayStation were designed by people who had literally never worked with 3D before... And it REALLY shows.

The N64's ORIGINAL design (before Nintendo fucked with it to make it cheaper), was from Silicon Graphics who'd been the unquestioned Masters of 3D hardware for more than a decade.

If Nintendo weren't fucking idiots who decided to gimp the rendering microcode, then cut back on memory so they could retail their console for a launch price a hundred dollars under their competition, the N64 would have looked a generation beyond the competition, rather than just vastly superior.

>>10345941
Do you even go that mountain? I can't recall at all

>>10346352
>C/C++ compiler as standard
The SDK didn't come with a C++ compiler. A few adventurous devs might have set one up on their own, but Nintendo never provided anything of the sort. On the N64, C was king.
>the performance you get doing raw C++ to the nintendo GL API was going to be dogshit
"nintendo GL API"? You mean the standard microcodes? In that case, it's honestly not that bad (at least, once they had time to optimize it a bit more).

>>10346314
>Trash framerates
Cartridge storage enormously helped the framerates.
ROMs are extremely fast to access.
The problem was the complex geometry and texture cache limits.

>>10346372
No, that would be Master of Time, and it's crazy that there's any controversy about this at all.

>>10345921
>Weren't the PS1 and Saturn equally as strong?
I don't think that's the case at all, no matter what people people might say

PS1 was definitely pushed to its limits more, though, just like the PS2

>>10346314
>Also someone should point out that there are what looks like emulation and/or remaster videos and screenshots being posted. If you want to show off the capabilities of any console, you should be posting captures from actual hardware, or at least emulators using settings that closely replicate output from original hardware. Otherwise, you are simply showing off the abilities of modern emulators and hardware.
it's a bait thread, wdye?

>>10346167
>N64 can't have these lens effects. Every N64 game has lens effects. Not sure what makes you think those are special. The PS1 NFS games look great, though
>>10346170
Now this looks like shit. RR games are puke

>>10346496
still important to continuously point these things out for the clueless zoomers who are funneled into here through retro vidya Youtoobers and have never touched real hardware in their lives. Hopefully the more we help educate those retarded broccoli hair fucks, the less their stupidity is a cancer on this board.

>>10346408
>best 3D
>less polygons per second than on PS1
>worse framerates than on PS1
>worse texture resolution than on PS1
>best

>Weren't the PS1 and Saturn just as powerful?
You need to stop listening to seething fanboys on /vr/, anon

>>10346504
>Every N64 game has lens effects.
Examples that look as good?

>>10346509
>Horseshit
Your rectum is a bad source

>>10346509
>Less polygons per second than the PS1
Try to find a source for this claim. I need a good laugh.

Soulemon thread

>>10346517
>can't refute
I accept your concession

only n64 could handle effects like 20 polygons on screen (max), 15 fps (max), two textures repeated endlessly, fog after 30 feet.

>>10346508
but why "educate them" that way? why not something less inflammatory?

>>10346513
>N64 couldn't do lens effects
>N64 can't do lens effects that my retarded ass thinks looks as nice as this
Don't strain your back shifting those goalposts

>>10346521
https://books.google.com/books?id=UosOEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>10346526
my original post about scripted animations, using actual hardware, and framerates wasn't inflammatory

That said, zoomies need to learn their place. They weren't even born when these systems were out. When someone who was there at the time is speaking, they need to learn to listen, nod, ask questions they might have, and then shut the fuck up.

>>10346532
>no examples
I accept your concession

>>10346526
Nta, but most of the time they have shitty attitudes, so they get met with shitty attitudes. You can't just come in here like you know everything, lose the argument, double down on being wrong and insist t it's not your fault for arguing from a place of ignorance, continue to be rude AF while demanding to be spoon fed while also still claiming to be right, without being called out for your mental retardation. It happens every day

>>10346523
>>10346543
Filter/shader name? Death to pixels?

>>10346513
If you mean the lens flare, I seem to recall Turok, Start Wars Racer, and Perfect Dark all having very nice lens flare effects

>>10346532
N64 is bad at colored transparencies. They are clamped in white and look like shit.

>>10346525
FVG……VASVLINE……..SOVL………

>>10346538
Lol mogged the tendie

>>10346546
This, zoomers act like extremely smug faggots because as time goes on the concept of being wrong is increasingly diluted in society. Everyone is valid, every faggot opinion deserves to be heard, every shit taste is acceptable because it’s Not Hurting Anyone(tm), etc.

If everything matters nothing matters, if everything’s valid nothings valid etc

>>10346540
>They weren't even born when these systems were out.
does this also apply to those who were less than 10 when these systems were out as well?

>>10346550
>N64 is bad at colored transparencies.
You mean light "transparencies" since it can't do additive blending. N64 can overall do more complex layers and is the only console of its gen with proper alpha blending, though. There is a reason the water in Crash 3 looks like goo

>>10346562
there is a big difference between a 2 year old and an 8 or 9 year old, so at that point it depends on what they're speaking on

>the additive blending schizo is here
>why can the n64 not do it if the snes can, here’s some screenshots

>>10346525
Road Rash 64 is better than Road Rash 3D or Jailbreak.

>>10346550
Yep. They either white like in Perfect Dark or too dull. PS1 was the king of 5th gen transparencies.

>>10346571
Take the L

>>10346570
generational overlap is a factor as well, and those who were between 2-5 when it came out have more in common with the zoomies than those who were 8-13 around that same timeframe.

>>10346562
Less than 5-6, sure. I remember fondly playing nes and genesis at those ages and while they weren't the newest consoles, most people still had at least a Nintendo. I used to make fun of old computer games like c64 and dos, but as I got older I started to appreciate them for their strengths instead of just being obsolete tech that should be thrown in the trash. Especially dos, there's so many great dos game I remember playing skyroads and getting addicted to it when I first started to get into PC gaming. I was completely wrong about older games, many of them are better in their tailored simplicity than most even 5th/6th gen counterparts. Game and watch is a great example.

>>10346586
>Less than 5-6
nah, less than 8-10 is a better springboard

>>10346578

Why there are so many console warring tendies on /vr/ all of sudden? It was chill just a week ago.

>>10346596
just save the screenshot, add brightness 20% and contrast 5%, roll back 2 feet and it looks great

>>10346540
>>10346546
that's not really any better than what they'd do, tho...

>>10346603
>a week ago
There were N64 shitposting threads the janny refused to delete a week ago and it's impossible to make a Zelda thread here without janny immediately making his first shitpost. Maybe your definition of chill is retarded
>>/vr/thread/10311917

>>10346607
They don't listen otherwise, you just get cast adidevas a boomer retard. At least this way plants a seed.

>>10346617
then they won't listen even more, especially if you're gonna act the same way

>>10346610
It's because of you give them an inch they take a mile. When oot cultists get out of control they make a thread based off of a post in an oot thread, this starts to become exponential as more and more oot threads are up, then you get oot threads based on oot threads based on oot threads. They just can't help themselves, so they need to be contained. It's become reactionary to lambast oot threads so they stay in one or two threads, instead of five or six with two or three on the front page at all times, because that shit has happened on more than a few occasions

>>10346170
>Or this crispness
The only thing crisp in this screenshot ist he HUD

>>10346628
Nah, shitposting begets shitposting. Let people have their boring thread and they're satisfied. Yous hitposting in every single Zelda thread like a maniac is why there are more and more. You also still don't have an issue with 10+ Sonic threads, so kys

>>10346618
This isnt daycare, junior. They want to spit off like an idiot and play boi who cried wolf, they're gonna get attitude back. You go tell them to stand in a corner and get laughed at, many of zoomer have been swayed by argumentation, it just takes a whole lot before they start connecting the dots.

>>10346538
Well done - you've found someone as uninformed as you.
You may notice that:
- This is an old source
- They don't give actual numbers
- This person has no idea what they're talking about (the N64 is optimised for fillrate? wut?)

This is based on Sony marketing and fanboy cope.

PS1:
Flatshaded polygons: 360,000
Polygons with textures: 180,000
Polygons with textures and lighting: 90,000
...In reality, it would never get close to these numbers. The PS1 was bottlenecked by its lack of frustum clipping and depth sorting, among other things.

The N64:
Flatshaded polygons: 500,000-1,000,000
Polygons with lighting, gourad shading, perspective-correct texturing, and texture filtering: ~160,000
...It would also struggle to reach these numbers in actuality, but was far less bottlenecked due to not having been designed by monkeys.

Sony loudly claimed that the N64 could only manage 160,000 polygons per second compared to the PS1's 360,000.
i.e. comparing the N64s high-performance mode to the PS1's low-performance mode.
Things are actually even worse than this, though - because the PS1 tried to compensate for its lack of perspective correct textures by subdividing geometry - so the PS1 will always need more polygons to draw the same scene.

The N64 is absurdly more powerful when it comes to drawing polygons - something that should be obvious just by looking at examples.

So tl;dr - you're wrong and should feel bad

>>10346541
>If real people don't spend time debunking everything that I can pull out of my ass, then THAT MAKES THEM TROOOOO!
You really believe this, don't you?

>>10346631
In general it’s because n64 fans, mostly millennial faggots, are extremely obnoxious and over represented online in general, which makes people overreact when they see the n64 discussed. It’s not unique to this board or a product of this board, but this board suffers for it, if that makes sense.

>>10346584
Low effort port desu

>>10346631
>>10346631
No, they will inevitably make more threads based on posts in oot threads. Why? Idk, they could just discuss that on the first oot thread, but they seem to think it's important enough to start a thread about it, this is becoming a thing not just in oot threads, but that's where it's the worst.

>>10346642
>literally admitting you're a zoomer and this is why you get triggered by Nintendo
>>10346645
When was the last time you tried just not shitposting in their threads?

>>10346647
Wrong direction age wise, no one likes millennials it’s as simple as that

>>10346651
Are you the 50 year old JRPG seether from the other thread?

>>10346556
See
>>10346634
...And samefag no more.

>>10346643
Do you realize that this fire looks like orange smoke? Ever wondered why?

>>10346632
>This isnt daycare, junior.
then why act like you're in it?

>>10346653
The what? I enjoy some JRPGs, not my favorite genre though

>>10346541
See:
>>10346549
And kys

>>10346651
Nobody even remembers gen x exists, that's how little yours is liked.

>>10346634
>Flatshaded polygons: 500,000-1,000,000
Source on this? Also how many N64 games realy use flat shaded polygons?

starting to notice n64 fans never own the actual console lol

>wobblestation 1

6th gen was when 3D started to looked good. 5th gen looked like shit in general, apart from the 2D stuff.

>>10346667
>Source
Literally any analysis of N64 hardware.
Different numbers from 500,000 to 1,000,000 are arrived at based on your testing methods.
>How many games use flatshaded polygons?
Almost all of them. Look closer.

Fully rendered polygons were used very sparingly because of how intensive they were to render.
Most shading and some textures are faked using vertex colours.

>>10346634
>The N64 is absurdly more powerful when it comes to drawing polygons - something that should be obvious just by looking at examples.
Post examples then. From what I've seen, N64 games are predominantly low poly, low res and low framerate.
>"b.. but it can draw a milly polygons"
No N64 game did that. They all settled for low poly mode for some reason.

>>10346689
>Source: "trust me, bro!"

>>10346689
>disregards the source as "old" and "uninformed"
>doesn't provide his own source
>1...2...3 till another excuse

>>10345921
It was the most powerful system followed by the saturn followed by the ps1.

>>10346694
>>10346667
Why the fuck is everyone allergic to Google?
Fine:
https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/the-true-story-of-nintendo64.15168/

Former N64 developer (I believe for RARE)

>Using the original Fast3D graphics code you' be lucky to hit 100K polygons on an N64.
>Using the Turbo3D code you'd get about 500-600K PS1 quality polygons (Nintendo never allowed this uCode in a shipping game).
>If you are looking at pure transform rate it was possible to do sugnificantly more than that. However the uCode was also responsible for triangle setup, and that always dwarfed the transform time.
>The last couple of N64 games I worked on used custom uCode, which distributed the work between the processor and the RSP somewhat differently than any of the SGI uCode, and would pretty easilly push >100K on screen polygons.
>If we're talking about graphics and PS1 quality polygons, there really is no comparisson, with the exception of the 4K texture cash an N64 is better in every measurable way. And a damn site harder to get the performance out of.

>>10345936
>>10345942
>>10345941
The PS1 has 3000 games versus N64's 300. At this point it's fair to say that it simply isn't as strong when it comes to real 3D and big rooms. Otherwise there would be many, many counter examples that wipe the floor with those games

>>10346532
The N64 can't do additive blending hence no glows or fire, flares, etc. N64 does alpha blending, which is why everything looks dull.

>>10346734
It's a moot point, because it ended up doing large areas in many games. More games than the N64 did.

Who gives a shit about hardware lol?

>>10346714
>Has only read 30 year old game journalist rambling
>Is unable to use Google
>Can't even read fucking Wikipedia
>Is still somehow this smug (I guess true retards always are)

See:
>>10346721
...Or just read a fucking book.
EVERYONE admitted that the PS1 was underpowered in 3D processing compared to the N64 years ago.

>>10346721
So he says that N64 could outperform PS1 IN THEORY but they choose not to because Nintendo policy? Totally not sus.

007 The World Is Not Enough is the best game visually that I've seen the N64, just graphically speaking.

>>10346691
If you think N64 games look "lower poly, poly res, and lower framerate" than PS1 games then get some fucking glasses

>>10346372
>>10346481
I'll check these out, thanks

Enough about the past, which console looks the best TODAY, WITH emulation tricks, upscaling, texture packs, hacks, etc.


What’s the best post emulation riced out 5th gen console?

Where my Lynxbros at?

>>10346754
Yeah but they look like shit

>>10346694
>>10346714
>SPOONFEED ME
https://n64.fandom.com/wiki/N64_Technical_Details

>>10346803
>n64.fandom
>n64
>fandom

>>10346769
...I guess the
"N64 is better in every measurable way" was too subtle for you?
"Sus"

>>10346803
So, which N64 games pushed 500k polys per second? Even that Rare dev from the quote above claimed that they went >100k which implies they didn't reach 200k.

>>10346809
>I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING
>I REFUSE TO GOOGLE
>I REFUSE TO READ THE SOURCES ALREADY POSTED
>I DEMAND ANOTHER SOURCE
>I DON'T LIKE THAT SOURCE
Your kind was a mistake

>>10346819
impossible on 64

>>10346816
None.
I think the highest reached was ~200,000
The highest PS1 game was ~100,000

Whether they realized it themselves or not, Sony (kinda) essentially used Yokoi's own philosophy against Nintendo when you think about it, at least from a graphical standpoint.

>>10346826
...Snappy comeback?

Impossible? Because of the blending?
Hardware blending aside, those effects could still still be done by the CPU, anon.
It wasn't a modern graphics pipeline yet, it still fed into a framebuffer

>>10346826
>Impossible on PS1
[Screenshot of any N64 game]

>>10346847
This is the limit of the n64

>>10346826
>Impossible on PS1
Textures that don't crawl away

lol

>>10346853
Panzer dragoon watch out.

>>10346016
>>10346058
Play literally any other 3d Zelda. OOT and MM are mid. Right where the series should be.

>>10345996
The processor in the ps1 wouldn't be able to do PD.
>psx
Oh... you are retarded. Carry on.

>>10346008
The DC was ahead of the ps2 in a few ways. The 64 was not even close to what the DC did.

>>10346070
>>10346167
>>10346170
I can't believe when I was a kid I ever liked ps1 racing games. These look like ass. Play like cum.

>>10346884
Yes, but the lack of DVD functionality along with bad blood from the Saturn/32X killed it

>>10346886
>These look like ass.
SMB1 looked like ass in comparison to Alex Kidd in Miracle World. Still liked the former a lot more anyways.

>>10346657
SiP has countless different fire effects, all of which are more complex than those 2 fps bitmaps in the webm

5th gen 3D was shit anyway. 3D gaming should've stated with the 6th gen and get refined by the 8th.

>>10346908
That's kinda what happened anyways. Nearly all the jank of 5th gen 3D by at least the middle point of the 6th.

>>10346921
got ironed out by*

No really why don't any of the n64 fans have the real hardware?

>>10346921
yeah but now all the 3D 5th gen games aged like shit. would've been better if the 5th gen was pure 2D kino like SotN and Alundra. 6th still had some jank and 7th gen had the piss filter and ran at 10fps 640p.

>>10346930
>would've been better if the 5th gen was pure 2D kino like SotN and Alundra.
Not like I disagree. Sort of like how most animation slowly added in 3D/CG effects here and there during the 80's up until around Toy Story, games around that gen should've done the same.

>>10346935
agreed. 5th gen should've been 2D with some 3D effects like SotN did, and full 3D should've started with the 6th gen, 7th gen should've remained SD, and HD should've started with the 8th gen

>>10346548
are you for real this is the N64? Crazy.

>>10346949
All agreed.

>>10346949
>5th gen should've been 2D
that's what they originally intended with the Saturn

>with some 3D effects like SotN
supposedly they added those effects in due to pressure from Sony to be a "3D game"

That said, I disagree. There are many examples of 3D games on Saturn/PSX/N64 that looked amazing at the time. If they're that bad for you to go back to, you can always play using emulation to upscale.

Also, the 5th gen was a necessary "learning" phase. No just in terms of graphics but 3D game mechanics as well. There was a lot of experimentation going on during that era while people were figuring out what 3D games could be. So we couldn't expect 6th gen 3D games to look or play nearly as good as they were jumping straight into 3D.

>>10346030
No it didn't , less animations and only 3 enemies at screen , not a bad game at all, the soundtrack is amazing and the guns are nice.

>>10346548
Rare was really good with reflections, they actually mentioned it as Real Time Ray Tracing back at the day,

https://youtu.be/SzjzcccHOdY

I think the SG workstations actually featured hardware ray tracing since the N64 was the only hardware capable of enviromental mapping at that time, but they tried to replicate the effect by creating another copy of the scene so it would like reflections in real time.

You guys realize these decisions about 3d weren’t made with the same hindsight right? Most gamers were kids who wanted cutting edge they weren’t jaded 4chan posters mad about slop and battle passes. Gaming media at the time was eviscerating games for not being 3d, these thought processes were pervasive at the time, we only think these console gens “should have” done things a certain way because we’ve had 20 years to step back and examine everything with excruciating detail

>>10346987
>There are many examples of 3D games on Saturn/PSX/N64 that looked amazing at the time.
I guess, though even those paled in comparison to whatever 2D offerings any of those systems had.

>Also, the 5th gen was a necessary "learning" phase.
They would've learned nearly just as much through said added 3D effects.

>>10346584

>>10346903

Also worth mentioning Turok 2 features polygonal fire, a graphical achievement at the time of the game's release

https://youtu.be/Yga9fI6ucQM?t=131

>>10345921
Would've been better if N64 devs focused more on framerate rather than impressive screenshots
PS1 has a fuckton of 3D games running at 60fps. Meanwhile most of the N64 library barely reaches 20fps on average.

>>10346008
Maybe with some of the lower budgeted games but anything big budgeted on the dreamcast blew N64 out of the water.

>>10346458
It's where Woodfall is located

I like all the consoles but just out of curiosity, what is a PS1 game that has a semi-serialistic fantasy world of the same vastness and quality?

>>10347081
Spyro

>>10347081
any kf

>>10347081
What makes Hyrule such an achievement more than just the asset quality is the depth of drawing on such a huge map and the lighting engine. See those pillars? They're lit in real time with the shadows constantly moving

>>10347086
Was thinking a bit more realistic but eh, I suppose it's kinda close

>>10347009
>They would've learned nearly just as much through said added 3D effects.

No, not at all. There was a ton of mechanical issues that they needed to figure out. From cameras, to movement, etc., how these things affect gameplay. All the amazing 6th gen 3D games have their roots in the 5th gen. Frankly, this is pretty obvious to anyone who was around at the time, zoomie.

>>10347108
>Frankly, this is pretty obvious to anyone who was around at the time
Well I know that, I was around during those gens myself after all.

>>10346584
I still hope for a Dreamcast models mod for Classic redux

https://youtu.be/jAt6mxNrG3k

https://youtu.be/Sf036fO-ZUk

>>10346268
its part of the goldeneye engine from' 96, where you can enjoy it with a better framerate

>>10347178
Custom microcode, huh? Most devs during the N64 era didn't even have that luxury! That was what made guys like Rare and Factor 5 so standout from the other.

>>10346453
And out in a CD-ROM that was faster than the competition. There would have been no contest. The trajectory of Nintendo would have gone from a three way race to a Nintendo monopoly. Something we really haven’t seen since the NES until now.

The cuts Nintendo made wasn't even that big in terms of price, they basically gimped the system tremendously to save some pennies.

it's insane how powerful the n64 was yet it struggles to maintain stable framerates because nintendo thought it was a good idea to have a 4kb texture cache, no dedicated sound chip (unlike the snes and psx) and forbid devs from using custom microcode until the generation was almost over

I still have my Pikachu N64 and I will keep it forever even though I don't even like Pokemon

>>10345996
Good luck dealing with the RAM limitations. Perfect Dark needed the expansion pack just for singleplayer. Why didn't Sony ever make a RAM expansion for the PS1 anyway?

>>10347086
Didn't Spyro's devs attempt to recreate the N64's rendering features?

Is nintendo's choice to go with cart media over cd's in 1996 the worst gaming blunder of all time?

>>10347009
>>They would've learned nearly just as much through said added 3D effects.
They wouldn't have. Making a 2D game with some 3D effects isn't as easy as making a game that's fully 3D.

>>10346960
Never played PD on real hardware? It's impressive when the framerate isn't shitting itself.

>>10346826
Looks better than most N64 games, but I bet the N64 could still manage with a competent programmer working on it.

>>10346743
Not even with custom microcode? Nintendo fucked up by not allowing more developers to use it.

>>10347215
most devs sucked

>>10347495
The N64 had a lot of power locked behind a stupidly complex architecture. PS1 was easier to get good results with even if it was less powerful.

>>10347081
The only comparable one I played is Brave Fencer Musashi, even has a village with a mill. But how it works is every area is basically a floating island with an empty skybox, trees are one 2D texture and the camera is top-down

>>10347498
yeah, it filtered most devs, we agree

>>10347494
You can but it's clamped with white, see F-Zero X, Mario Tennis and a few others. Mario Tennis came really late so I imagine they only figured out at the end of N64 life. A port of Killer Instinct arcade would have been much better with all the visual effects that the N64 version lacked.

>>10345921
Man I want to love Perfect Dark and levels like this are so cool but there are so many sloggish shit levels you have to do to get to the good ones

>>10346881
>Oh... you are retarded. Carry on.
cope

>>10347540
>You can but it's clamped with white
Can you elaborate on that? What part gets clamped to white?

>>10347895
*clamped with
I don't have a good understanding of this stuff

>>10345938
What game? Looks like a Dreamcast game.

>>10346008
>N64 had graphics on par with dreamcast
Nigger what are you smoking? Nothing on the N64 looks as good as SoulCalibur plus N64 games run at 240p and sometimes even lower like Conker which runs at 292x214

>>10346504
>RR games are puke
This is bait. R4 is one of the best looking games on the PS1

>>10346841
>I think the highest reached was ~200,000
Which game it was?
>The highest PS1 game was ~100,000
Tekken 3 has ~1500 polygons per character. Two characters at 60 fps is 180,000 already and that is without the floor.

>>10346008
>N64 had graphics on par with dreamcast.
No, the dreamcast was definitely more powerful.

>>10345921
Bulk Slash??

It's amazing how much of a difference just a few megabytes of VRAM made back then.

>>10346070
why do I run out of time every time I play Side by Side Special? even in time trial on a map that's a literal circle gunning the throttle the entire time I still just barely finish with like less than 4 seconds left on the clock.

is it supposed to be so hard a single turn that isn't perfect will make you game over after time running out?
is it a bug with the emulator?
why the hell is there no time??

>>10347983
It's a barebones port of an arcade game. It wants your quarters.

>>10347907
World Driver Championship, I think

>>10347907
This is how it acrually looks. That footage is emulated at high resolution.

>>10345941
MM looks awesome in HD (most N64 games don't really need the CRT shader treatment) but fuck those mods

>>10346792
Not a single answer, sad. OG Xbox at 10x upscaling.

>>10347097
>See those pillars? You can walk there.

>>10345921
I never played Perfect Dark before. Should I play with an N64 controller and 4:3, try to get close to the original experience, or should I just go for the PC port with mouse support and modern features? I worry the game maybe accounted for the clunky n64 controller and would be to easy on a mouse+KB

>>10348165
>Should I play with an N64 controller and 4:3, try to get close to the original experience,
>should I just go for the PC port with mouse support and modern features?
No, you shouldn't. Thanks for asking.

>>10347994
but they actually lowered the time ever further in side by side special 2000. in fact that's like the only chance between 2000 and the other version.
thats why I think it may be my emulator? why would they make it harder from a point that already makes you run out without flawless gameplay?

>>10346996
what kind of knot twisted post is this? you admit that it's just a simple trick of rendering a flipped version of a column under the floor, but then try to defend call it real time raytracing which has absolutely no presence in pd

>>10345921
>2011+12
>nintenredditors STILL butthurped about 5th gen

guys you lost and got eternally btfo to making only meme consoles. get over it anytime now lmao

>>10348235
For real? I only played the 2000 version. But I really doubt it's emulation.

>>10346584
Why does the Dreamcast version look better than the Gamecube one?

>>10348165
if youve played and enjoy goldeneye and want to experience the game as it was released, try it with the n64 controller. if not, definitely k+m. it feels like a decent mid to late 90s pc shooter that way.

>>10345921
SNES is more comparable to the PS1 than N64.

>>10348256
why this butthurped over some randy dunking on the ps1?

Sovl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz0iqq4B74g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smkW3gtOKbw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikqBjgxqbAw

>>10346873
pretty sure I already explained that other 3D Zeldas suck ass and that's why I don't play them

>>10348038
I take harmonious N64 puke textures over PS1's pixel Tetris textures and soulless fan textures any day of the week.

>>10348776
I understand not loving TP but Wind Waker is pure soul and the closest thing we have to a full fledged AAA 3D Monkey Island. Just feels good to play it and the sound design is amazing.

>>10348034
wow, crazy how the res makes the difference

>>10348034
https://youtu.be/sBUhDrnVvdg

>>10346058
Okami is so god.

>>10346595
Is this a Shiren game on the N64?

Fucking ludo. This aesthetic is so good. Only other games that really hit it are the Goemon ones.

>>10346058
>>10349021
The on-foot sections of WW are the best parts, and it had pretty good ideas here and there. It's a shame I got bogged by the slow sailing and that fucking triforce shard quest

>>10345921
i've always said the same thing. the best games on N64 are just so much better than pretty much any other system's best exclusive games.

>>10349649
Agreed. Quality quantity and all that.

>>10349360
Yeah that's Shiren 2. Heavily recommend it to anyone if they like roguelikes, mystery dungeons, or turn based strategy games in general

>>10349804
Can you give some tips what to do? I find it very confusing so far. What should be my loop?

>>10346996
That's dope

>>10347081
you can hear this screenshot

>>10345938
Ridge Racer Type 4 and Need for Speed HIgh Stakes do look better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzKaiqfcapM

>>10349878
They're all about the items instead of the build. Your build in Shiren is your inventory instead of your class and skills. You improve your weapons, shields, and tools.

>>10346772
>007 The World Is Not Enough
Holy shit this game looks like it could be on the dreamcast

>>10347450

The extension port was too slow and was eventually removed

>>10349967
RR looks like shit outside of the meme city sector. No colors, blurry and look at that car. People must stop memeing it

Not even worth playing with 7 existing

>>10349967
I doubt the comparison is even fair since WDC is probably just some low budget game while Ridge Racer is Namco. But something I immediately notice is how WDC has the smoother asphalt textures. Where it's very polygonal in Ridge Racer, in WDC it's very smooth, something that wasn't even the norm in following generations

>>10350551
For a "low-budget game", the guys at boss game studios really put their all into making it look good.

>>10345921
>Why are all the most impressive 3D games on N64
Because the hardware came from the same company that provided the tech for CGI effects in Terminator 2, Silicon Graphics.
The thing is, the N64's internal documentation that they provided was difficult to understand and only available in English. This made it very hard for Nintendo and other Japanese companies to figure out how to get shit working on the console, to the point that Super Mario 64 only used 10% of its full power.
It's why that game is graphically super basic and uses small levels compared to all the shit that came from Rareware, who had a leg up from having used Silicon Graphics tech for years by this point while working on DKC and Killer Instinct.

>>10346734
>At this point it's fair to say that it simply isn't as strong when it comes to real 3D and big rooms
The PS1 or N64?

>>10348316
Because that video is using emulators for all the consoles.

>>10350631
>Super Mario 64 only used 10% of its full power
bullshit

>>10350734
>Heh, impressive, but didn't you know, I've actually only been using 10% of my full power for years, now you'll see what I can really do

>>10350631
>It's why that game is graphically super basic and uses small levels
Rare would have been smart had they stuck with this formula and focused more on platforming.

>>10347097
>See those pillars? They're lit in real time
That's not what real-time lighting means.

>>10348165
>and 4:3
The original supported 16:9 (or, at least, I know for sure that Goldeneye did).

>>10350775
This is news to me

>>10347562
bullshit. pd is a flawless game

>>10350770
Nah, I prefer the approach they used during that time. I recently came to view their take on "collectathons" as a (sort of) action-adventure-platformer hybrid.

>>10350551
>something that wasn't even the norm in following generations
It was norm in every Need for Speed game since the very first one.

>>10350807
Yeah, it did. It was the "Ratio" option. It was "anamorphic" 16:9, which means it still output the same resolution, but the visuals were squashed so that if you stretched it on a 16:9 display it would look correct. "High Resolution" shown in the screenshot, was available if you had the memory expansion and it doubled the vertical resolution (changed it from 240p to 480i).

>>10350808
Goldeneye was more fun single player. More fun level designs.

>>10350881
This. Tendies alwaya try to proclaim that N64 was ahead of its time at something, be it controller rumble, complex level designs or smooth road in racing games while in reality they are just not familiar with the games that existed outside of N64.

>>10350808
Never met anyone IRL who felt this way unlike Goldeneye.

>>10351162
Let's put it this way: Goldeneye 007 was a 97/100 game in the pre Half-Life world while PD is a 97/100 game in the post Half-Life world.

>>10351171
I'd rank Half Life lower than both those games

>>10351172
That's why I said "world" as in general consensus. You are entitled to your own opinion but it doesn't affect how a game is received in general and what place it takes in the history of gaming.

>>10347467
No. Mario 64, OoT, Banjo-Kazooie, etc. wouldn't have worked on CD. You'd jump in a painting in Mario and wait a minute for it to load like Spyro.

>>10351179
Also to add, most PSX games would fit on an N64 cartridge if you remove all the FMV bloat.

>>10351182
Do you have a source to back up the "most" claim?

>>10351178
If you want to talk about consensus, Goldeneye 64 is the most memorable and played of that bunch

>>10351193
What makes you think that?

>>10351171
>while PD is a 97/100 game in the post Half-Life world.
In your mind maybe. Perfect Dark was garbage compared to the competition on its release and without James Bond and the fact it required an expansion pack made it far worse. There was no chance in hell I was going to pick Perfect Dark Multiplayer when I had Quake on dreamcast.

>>10351189
Look at RE2. It would fit but it would be a complete mess.

>>10351219
They are not the same genre - SP focused and MP focused. And I don't think Dreamcast was the best way to play Q3A. On the other hand, PD was a N64 only title for a long time.
I don't even like PD that much, I was into CS, Kingpin, RTCW and MoHAA instead but any singleplayer fps game released after Half-Life and getting similar scores is an achievement by itself. PD and Halo scored higher than RCTW and MoHAA and I accept that.

>>10351227
>And I don't think Dreamcast was the best way to play Q3A
At the time I don't think it was possible to play PC Quake Arena 4 player split screen. Dreamcast was also better than PS2s port that came out the following year.
>getting similar scores
Why are you so hung up on scores? These same reviewers would dismiss games for being 2d.

>>10351219
> getting similar scores
what a ridiculous focus. the fake and deluded game mag shill scores of the 90s. the rare bonus was real, the truth is perfect dark got 9.5 from those 19 year old retarded mag editors before they even played it. It's the sequel to goldeneye for fucks sake. It has more goldeneye's engine but with even more shit you can do of course it gets goldeneye's score plus even closer to perfect. It's only after actually playing it through, reflecting and growing up that you can even discern the reason you aren't having fun isn't some thing that's gone wrong with you. It's like trying to come down to reality from the hype of phantom menace on opening night to get your head around a star wars movie sucking. you can't at first. Oops you already wrote a blown away review. PD on real n64 is a 8/10 game goldeneye is 9.5 - even if they were released on the same day not over 3 years apart

Coukd the N64 have handled the outdoor maps of Silent Hill?

>>10351171
This doesn't make sense. Goldeneye blew you away with what felt like a new level of virtual reality realism. Then about two years later half life blew you away with what felt like another new level of virtual reality realism, albeit with some forgivable sacrifices made of things GE had achieved. Then two full years after that, PD came out and... was slightly slicker looking than goldeneye and had blood splats now and bots. It wasn't a revolution like those two. It left plenty of people who'd played the shit out of goldeneye and now basically had 3? two? new levels that were cool and a bunch of tedious turok maze alien crap, thinking that for the time that had passed there probably should have been something better

>>10351342
(since any actual gripes you could have with goldeneye - eg weird slow motion explosions that make the area into a hurt box for 6 seconds, stuff like that, were not improved or changed at all)

>>10351340
>1067x600
this thread man

>>10346826
>two characters and an octagonal tube
Yeah, sure.

>>10351352
You say that but the reality is if Omega Boost was on N64 it would look more like >>10346853

>>10351357
No StarFox 64 exists, you are just a ridiculously cherry picking autismo.
And it has what Omega Boost doesn't, actual environments instead of a flat plane, a jpg background or a simple tube.

>>10351397
Lylat Wars was never mainstream unlike Omega Boost which was over with normies and gamers.

>>10345921
Because SGI
The PC revolution started with 3dfx cards. Guess who founded 3dfx? Former SGI employees.

>>10345997
N64 has Beetle Adventure Racing\!

>>10351402
Omega Boost didn't even sell 1 million copies. It didn't even review that well because it's so simplistic.

>>10351340
Body Harvest was literally proto GTA, featuring even enterable buildings:

https://youtu.be/qiZkzbMJ3Ec

Also Turok 1 had huge open areas with seamless gameplay

>>10345997

N64 had a lot of Rally racing games:

https://youtu.be/ZRWuLxt7DAg

snoys are really retarded, defending the medicore PSX hardware with its crippled feature sets, its funny peoples bashing at the 4kb texture cache of the N64 since the PSX had only 2kb, a shitty nearest neighbour filter only, no floating point unit , no z buffer, the CD rom reading speeds was 100 times slower and had a huge latency, hence most games use midi format .

Compare Rayman 2, Shadow Man, Space Station Silicon Valley that got ported to the PS1 with lots of cuts and downgrades.

we cant have a nice N64 discussion thread without people shiting post about the console.

>>10348243
All he said was that Rare was good at reflections and they called it ray tracing

>>10351203
Back in that era I remember Goldeneye 64 talked about much more than Half Life 1, most people were not pc gamers

>>10351686
>snoys are really retarded, defending the medicore PSX hardware with its crippled feature sets, its funny peoples bashing at the 4kb texture cache of the N64 since the PSX had only 2kb, a shitty nearest neighbour filter only, no floating point unit , no z buffer, the CD rom reading speeds was 100 times slower and had a huge latency, hence most games use midi format .
Anon you forgot the details. First of all, N64 cache is halved with filtering forced by Nintendo, leaving only 2kb of actually usable space. Second, it is explicitly loaded vs true associative cache of PS1, meaning that N64 has to fetch textures all the time and waste GPU cycles while PS1 textures are only limited by VRAM size.
Second, look at top PS1 games. Which of them were crippled by nearest neighbour filter, no z buffer or CD rom reading speeds? Nobody cared about any of that. The worst example is maybe Tomb Raider games being full of warping textures. Most popular games like Gran Turismo, Crash games, Tekken games, Ridge Racer Type 4, Resident Evil games - all of them look great, run great and have barely noteciable loading times. And these are the games that 90% of PS1 owners played. Of course you can find ugly jaggy and slow loading games on the system just like you can find blurry N64 games with low fps and bad sound.

>>10346793
What the fuck is that button spacing on the right, that looks so uncomfortable to use

>>10351734
>Nobody cared about any of that.
I cared. Z-buffering, anti-aliasing, tri-linear mipmap interpolation, these were all of deep importance to me.

>>10351334
>PD on real n64 is a 8/10 game goldeneye is 9.5 - even if they were released on the same day not over 3 years apart
I'm with you on this and I'm surprised that it isn't more common. If PD had actually retained Goldeneye's strengths, while enhancing everything and adding more possibilities, it would absolutely be a 9.5/10 game in its own right. But somehow, Goldeneye just happened to be one of those games that just did everything it could right on the first try and then was never replicated.

PD was really overambitious in ways that it did not live up to, it absolutely needed to run better, either from better optimization or straight up launching on a more powerful system. It's level design is worse, its missions more tedious, weapons more gimicky and less satisfying to use (people went nuts over the laptop gun but it's a weapon that shoots for you instead of something you aim remotely and there's something just so lame about that even no matter how cool the idea is).

Just the way Goldeneye opens is so beautiful. I mean that literally, the dam is a fantastic looking level that really sells you on it because it gives a solid impression of a space wide open in the maintains with nice backdrop. Not a single level of PD looks as good or clean, it has inferior art direction and layout. But its the way that it introduces and utilities its mechanics from the get go, giving a pistol you can use stealthily, from which you can take rifles from the guards, first with automatic fire, then a sniper with scope from the tower, which you can immediately employ over the long distances the level provides. Nowhere in PD is this done, its sniper is made obsolete but the auto aim of you fucking machine pistol, so the intent of the Villa just fails. Goldeneye is primitive in plenty of ways, you can't walk past edges, guards won't shoot you, even if they have a shot, unless there's continuous solid ground with no obstacles between them and you. But it just got so much spot on.

>>10351737
It's ambidextrous.

>>10351340
there is nothing special in that game

>>10351819
I don't think you understand what that word means.

>>10351182
>let's limit and torture all game developers by forcing them to use a tiny proprietary cartridge so Nintendo can increase their profits and the end consumer gets a smaller product
castrate yourself, nintendo bootlicker

>>10350881
Good for Need for Speed

>>10346930
At the same time, SotN and Alundra are also games that can have respectable ports on the 16bit hardware, without losing out on gameplay and just some degredation to graphics.

Was probably because of the psx that forced the rest to move to 3d. Snes/genesis could've gone on for a bit longer and then release the 3d systems later with dreamcast like performance instead.

They just can't let it go. Even 25 years later. A thread about the N64 being more "relevant" than the PS1 and now this!
The mere fact that the N64 needs an Expasion Pak for the dozen or so of decent games this console has, so it doesn't look too blurry or unappealing, just shows how mediocre this console is in terms of design and engineering.
The only reason the N64 has better capabilties than the PS1 and Saturn is just because it came out 2 years later. Taking advantage of all the progress within the computer industry. That's it! tendie... no merit at all. Your beloved company did nothing special at their own.

>>10346008
Nah. Alot of games on the cast had some ugly blocky models tho I will give you that

>>10352136
>A thread about the N64 being more "relevant" than the PS1
yes

>>10351734
>N64 cache is halved with filtering forced by Nintendo, leaving only 2kb of actually usable space
Factually incorrect. Texture filtering was not required by Nintendo, nor does it use any extra TMEM. It's a simple option in the render settings that can be turned on and off on a whim.
>N64 has to fetch textures all the time and waste GPU cycles while PS1 textures are only limited by VRAM size
Your comparison makes no sense. The texture data has to be loaded one way or another, not to mention optimized for efficient cache usage in either case. The N64's texture cache isn't the Achilles heel it's memed up to be.

>>10352359
Self-affirmation or delusion is a good therapy for the people or a group with low self-esteem.
I guess this explain these threads.

>>10352413
>Self-affirmation or delusion is a good therapy for the people or a group with low self-esteem.
I guess that's why we argue about which electronic toy is better than the other.

>>10351734
>no z buffer
The z-buffer is an anti-feature and is the point at which 3d graphics started to go wrong.

>>10352136
>PSX more revelant

Show me PSX games that had revolutionary 3D mechanics , anything like Zelda OOT, Mario 64 or Goldeneye did.

Also

https://n64squid.com/n64-joystick-360-degrees/

Even the Dual Shock 2 has less degrees per angle, witch is baffling, so much dead zones , it's terrible to play games like monkey ball without the analog precision

>>10352530
there wouldn't have been any point making the sticks precise internally when they are placed in a position at which the thumb has poor articulation

>>10352136
>they just can't let it go. Even 25 years later
Sir, this is /vr/
Also, aren't you that one anti-N64 schizo?

>>10352530
the original Armored core trilogy on PS1 is an absolute blast

>>10351806
its something to wonder, whether the guy who conceived goldeneye from the start, implemented its code that makes it so particularly fun, conceived perfect dark, then immediately left the game industry to be a monk (or something like that), leaving pd in the hands of some interns, could have implemented pd as he envisioned it. or whether even he just would have hit the systems limits

>why does a 1997 console have better graphics than a 1995 console
gee I wonder

>>10353292
A better question is: why it doesn't?

>>10351434
>Racing in that abomination beetle
No thanks. The tracks are kart racer tier.
>>10351439
>Reviews
>Sales
Same reviewers would downvote 2D games and heres another N64 so called killer game which sold millions.

>>10352136
this is the mhz schizo

>>10351686
>N64 had a lot of Rally racing games:
Thats like saying N64 had run and gun and fighters even though none of them were any good.
>>10351842
What does the word mean?

>>10353450
>No thanks. The tracks are kart racer tier.
The fuck are you talking about? Beetle Adventure Racing runs on NFS3/NFSHS engine, has similar tracks to those games (means that they're good) and has legit car handling. It's the only worthy racing game on the platform and the only one that comes close to PS1 racers.

>>10353461
>The fuck are you talking about?
Nu Beetle car will never be cool no matter how you try to spin it. Getting air time is fine with Sega Rally but when you're doing back flips, flying like its ET and smashing into obstacles your so called racer loses me.

>>10353480
And yet you post Daytona which has even less realistic physics

>>10353485
My bad. I forgot the parts of Daytona where you take flight.

>>10353502
>hating jumps in a racing game because it's on N64
That's a new one.

>>10345921
It had true hardware accelerated 3D processing, it was a big selling point back then. It was like Nintendo directx. The way polygons are drawn also allowed it to have much larger 3D environments than PlayStation or Saturn which allowed for the collectathons and FPS people loved. I think only Spyro got close to doing what the N64 could do.

When pushed to the limit, the N64 was a stunner. I don’t think PlayStation was any slouch, but N64 was clearly more impressive when utilized correctly.

Conker’s Bad Fur Day held it’s own against Dreamcast and launch PS2 and is undoubtedly the most graphically impressive game on the console.
Full facial animation
Lip synced dialogue
Real time lighting
Shadow casting
Real time reflections
Huge open environments

It’s a based system. I had both PS1 and N64 back in the day and loved them both for their own strengths.

MIPS strong and the developers were both passionate, talented, and creative.

>>10353528
PS1 was also hardware accelerated though. One of the first of its kind. Maybe you mean texture filtering?

>>10353548
IIRC it wasn’t, which is why most games had texture warping.

>>10353548
>>10353549

>>10353549
>>10353552
You mention specific hardware features. I meant graphics acceleration in general which was done with GTE.

>>10353528
>Full facial animation
Lip synced dialogue
Real time lighting
Shadow casting
Real time reflections
Mario 64 with its simplistic and cartoony style is better looking.
>Conker’s Bad Fur Day held it’s own against Dreamcast and launch PS2 and is undoubtedly the most graphically impressive game on the console.
Comparing Conker to Sonic Adventure proves you're wrong. >>10346008 Looks better than anything in Conker.

>>10353552
I heard about teenagers doing this but I didn't think i'd see it on this site let alone /vr/ - screencapping the first google snippet as if it has some authority to it instead of being algo mongled shit most of the time. You didn't even read it either, because it says no special hardware for z-buffer or floating point
>which are important for 3D
It doesn't say that there's no hardware for other things that are important for 3D.
If you were doing 'research' beyond copying words that have no meaning to you into google and pasting a featured snippet from quora screenshot (holy fucking retard, find death asap), even just on wikipedia, you'd find out about for example the ps1 having a 'Geometry Transformation Engine' a dedicated chip for matrix/vector (ie 3D graphics) operations, ie hardware acceleration. There was also a video decoding chip, which also counts as hardware acceleration.

So yes, hardware acceleration of 3D, but not of the specific method of operations that relieves geometry jitter, or of perspective scaling of textures

>>10353570
I said it held its own, I didn’t say it was truly higher fidelity than Sonic Adventure (which didn’t have shadows, real time lighting or reflections, but did have a higher polygon count). Sonic Adventure also had basic mouth movements and limited skeletal animation in comparison.

Conker is undeniably higher fidelity than Mario 64. That is ridiculous. Conker is literally a coding marvel that used every trick in the book.
>>10353574
N64 did accurate 3D, PSX didn’t. That’s the point I was trying to make, and I did say “if I recall correctly”. There isn’t a single wobble in an N64 title, they render exactly as 3D accelerated PC games did, therefore being truly 3D accelerated, not an approximation.

>>10353587
>Sonic Adventure also had basic mouth movements
In a 3d platformer I have never once given a damn about this. I will give Rare props for how they handled Banjo Kazooie voices as its simple and effective.

Most of the programmers for 5th gen games really were really something else in general, I gotta say. We'd be lucky to have those of their caliber today.

>>10353593
Conker’s bad fur day probably has an hour of real time fully voiced cutscenes were full facial animation and Lip syncing absolutely matters, and it was impressive even through 6th gen. All of that on a 64mb cart I might add. Wizardry.
Sonic Adventure literally has unsynced blob mouths and half the body animation.

>>10353587
3D acceleration is not "wobble remover". 3D acceleration is using special dedicated chips for fast graphics rendering which would be otherwise too slow to do on general purpose CPU.

>>10353604
And yet most PSX games don’t look or run better than software rendered 3D PC games.
N64 3D acceleration is demonstrably more accurate. That being said, I really enjoy how the PSX looks and don’t think it’s a matter of fidelity what makes games look better.

OP asked why N64 had more impressive 3D games, and it’s because it had a more capable 3D accelerator.

Yet again this board ceases amazing me which how much it care more about hardware talk than games. This board is just /o/ in disguise.

>>10353587
>therefore being truly 3D accelerated, not an approximation.
This is your very personal imaginary definition of something that is defined differently in common use. You could argue that making the granularity of vertex positions finer than a screen pixel is a threshold in capability, and you could give it a name. But that name is not 'truly 3D accelerated'. I get what you mean but now we can settle on n64 having
>>10353607
>a more capable 3D accelerator.
which we all understood in the first place except you

>>10353628
I said “iirc” PSX didn’t have a 3D accelerator. What I meant to say was that it had a shitty 3D accelerator. Is that better mr sperg?

>>10353641
you're arguing with me about some shit that happened before the post i replied to which was one with a screen shot of quora. i don't give a fuck what you said to someone elsewhere

>>10353607
>And yet most PSX games don’t look or run better than software rendered 3D PC games.
This is incorrect. I will generalize a bit, but a typical mid-90s 3D PC game required a 66-100 Mhz Pentium CPU to run at acceptable framerate at 240p. And yet it had no colored lighting, 16-bit color and transparency effects of PS1 games from the same period. No unaccelerated 1995 PC game looked as good as Wipeout or Motor Toon GP both of which ran on a console with 33 Mhz CPU. But 240p while fine on a TV was too low for a PC monitor. And once you bump resolution to 480p you get unplayable slide show on PC unless you upgrade to a 166-200 Mgz CPU, preferrably P2, OR buy an accelerator (assuming the game supports it). And post-Quake PC games were more complex in general so the comparison becomes moot.
With 3Dfx Voodoo accelerator you could play Quake at 480p and 30 fps. These were main points - play at good resolution and fast speed. Quake 2 popularized colored lighting in 1997 too. In the end, 1997 PC hardware left both consoles way behind. N64 usually run at 240p and many games were sub-30 fps so this is why I don't get your acceleration point unless you mean specific things like texture filtering.

>>10353641
It certainly accelerated better than the N64 3D accelerator, considering their games having the same level of detail despite PSX hardware being much weaker.

>>10354224
>considering their games having the same level of detail despite PSX hardware being much weaker.
Indeed, subpixel accuracy for geometry, perspective correct filtered textures, anti aliasing and a z-buffer require zero additional transistors.

>>10353460
I'm not going to Google it for you. It's irrelevant anyways, the Lynx's design is shit regardless.

>>10354356
I accept your concession.

Tekken 3 still mogs any other 3d game of the era

>>10345921
Actual 3D hardware that operates like a fetal version of what we use now, more or less. Correct perspective, filtering, no penalty/overdraw for large flat surfaces. It was really anemic texture memory and poly budget-wise though. There are probably some PS1 games with more polies on screen at a higher framerate, but they were all unfiltered, jagged, and wobbly.
>Saturn
basically doesn't even enter the conversation. That developers got that sprite machine to do what it did, and things like Hellslave exist, are sheer autistic wizardly. PS1s and N64 highs/max potential are so much higher.

They're all good game platforms so please don't fag out anyone.

>>10354457
>not even 3D background
Smash mogs kekken hard

>>10354471
Saturn actually mogs N64 in 3D fighting games as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgoSGMmMeU
>high resolution
>great looking models
>fast framerate

>>10354483
What are you retarded, Tekken 3 has 3d backgrounds compared to the mostly barren 2d atmosphere of smash. But you're literally a kid playing with toys in smash it's supposed to look like that. Completely different things, smash isn't a fighting game, it's its own things.

>>10354491
This is a stupid argument, and I said no fagging out. All 3 machines were so differently abled anyway. There are games on each that couldn't be done on the others without huge compromises, and you know what they are, and you know why. That said, you know Saturn's 3D blows. Even the goddamn developers have mentioned this several times over. It was a strain to make games like these.

>>10354501
Tekken 3 is a faggot game for insecure faggots.
>"oh no, Smash looks like it's for kids"
Lmao it's almost as if it threatens your masculinity and you try to overcompensate by limiting yourself to "adult games". You're worse than Mortal Kombat fags why cry about other games being too weeb and not violent enough.

>>10354483
>>10354521
tendie forgot his meds again

>>10354528
You forgot that Smash has 4 on screen characters and real 3D environments. Kekken is two dudes, endless flat ground and jpg wallpapers.

>>10345921
>Why are all the most impressive 3D games on N64
Because Nintendodrones are the furries of /vr/ and they won't stop masturbating to their product of choice, creating an echo-chamber effect.
In other words: they aren't

>>10354457
Mace The Dark Age has bigger arenas, with destructible objects , technically speaking even the chacarters had twice the poly count of a sintle Tekken 3 character.

Tekken 3 is the better game though, I will give you that,Too bad most of the N64 fighting games exclusives had shitty low budget efforts .

>>10355310
Forgot pic and video

https://youtu.be/GVDOq7azPRQ

>>10346557
So the answer is to instead look like an insecure millenial faggot trying to imitate a cartoon stereotype of old men yelling at kids outside like when you had autists here violently denying the GBA was retro even though it was 20 years old and vastly obsolete?

>>10354457
>two niggas in front of a wallpaper
This has potential to become the new 3 niggas in a row if Snoys keep pushing it

>>10355314
Games that are too dark and muddy like that would benefit from additive transparencies since the glows would be very vibrant and lit the dark characters, except it doesn't and the game looks like a blurry mess with ugly colors and even uglier alpha blending effects. The fire in that game looks like they're spreading spices in the air.

>>10354457
Not visually, it's just two characters in front of a jpeg.

>>10354457
>>10354483
>>10354491
Could you stop saying "mogs"? It's one of my trigger words.

>>10356359
Sorry anon...

>>10356118
Nta but I thought that main point about Tekken 3 was not character models/polycount but mocap animation quality and how fast and responsive the controls were compared to other 3D fighting games of that period. Namco made custom compression routine for animation data because it didn't fit PS1 RAM at first. Even industry graphics leader Sega had less impressive animation in VF3.
Tobal 2 and DoA1 are smoother in static than Tekken 3.

>>10347562
>the good ones
can you name them? because if there's even one level that's fun I would be happy to replay it a thousand times like i have Facility. I don't want to have to grind through the campaign again to find it though. I have gritted teeth memories of all this game's levels i can remember

>>10356640
>can you name them?
Not him but Goldeneye had many fun levels to run through, like the Silo, the Train, the Frigate, the Runway and quite a few others. In Perfect Dark, I remember trying to find run levels to run through but there aren't too many. One might be Carrington Institute: Defense, I remember that was relatively short and action packed. It's been ages since I've played PD, actually. Another one that I remember coming back to was Crash Site: Confrontation. The first level of the game is also sort of fun to replay. Pelagic II: Exploration is fun but too long.

>>10356841
>The first level of the game is also sort of fun to replay
I dunno...it gives me the shits. The first part of the level is defined by these cramped confrontations - come around a corner or open a door and you're jammed up against a guy and the challenge is just to spin fast enough to aim at him if he walks a small distance. Then you go into the offices and you're supposed to open a door, use your cmp150 to paint three guys then watch the gun whip around automatically killing them. That's cool a few times but I don't find repeating this process to be satisfying. There's no loud gun option here so you don't have the tactical question of whether shooting a guy will call more guys that is supposed to define these spy games. The guys in the offices just don't come so you open door, shoot unwitting guy, repeat or annoyingly chase him around with your lumbering aim if he happened to get up. Tedious elevator interactions, etc.
But you know what I need to reserve judgement. Because to make goldeneye fun these days i set it to damage =300% or whatever in 007 mode so guards can one shot me. I need to do this to PD and replay it but I remember the 007 mode in PD was kind of differently implemented.
Eh anyone got an eep for the pc port that has that '007 mode' available, or know how else to get it going?

>>10356403
>Sega had less impressive animation in VF3.
LMAO reminder that Tekken hides it's animations behind 2d sprites so you can't see how badly they connect in non-throw situations in fact a VF3 character has more blocking animations for different types of attacks than Tekken for the entire character roster.

>>10353528
Just a shame nobody can see any of these amazing features under the thick layer of Vaseline.

>>10356864
>VF3 character has more blocking animations for different types of attacks than Tekken for the entire character roster.
Tekken 3 has more animations in general for numerous different states like bouncing from the floor, or tripping over after a shin kick, or grabbing the nose after being punched etc which all add to overall look and characters expression. Most of those are mocapped as well. VF3 went for a more simple and serious look but they also reused a lot of hand animated moves from VF2 which looked unnatural. So no, VF3 is not better animated. Wolf has 28 throws and grabs in VF3. King has around 50 in Tekken 3.

>>10351189
nta but I used to download tons of PS1 "rip" games a long time ago, which had their music and FMVs removed, since I had slow internet and a small hard drive. Most of these games were less than 64MB, which is the maximum capacity of an N64 cartridge. Granted, this was with compression, since the ISOs for these games usually contained easily compressible garbage data, and would balloon to "original" size when uncompressed. To compress and play these games, I used a special plugin for ePSXe. I also threw tons of these games onto my PSP, since the PBP converter I used could compress games.

>>10356961
Yes, you are losing FMVs but also high quality music and speech. Furthermore 64mb cartridges became affordable to the developers only in very late 1999. In 1998 there were only three 32mb games, OoT, Turok 2 and NJPW Toukon Road 2. The absolute majority N64 games in 1998 were 16Mb or less. So let's say you are going against 1998 PS1 lineup like RE2, MGS, Gran Turismo, Tekken 3, NFS 3, Crash 3, Tomb Raider 3 and others. You are stuck with 32Mb cart if you are VERY lucky. More likely you will have to squeeze into 16Mb. Resident Evil 2 was ported to N64 almost two years after the PS1 release. It wouldn't be possible with 1998 ROM sizes.

>>10356858
>it gives me the shits.
Yeah, it kind of feels like it should be more fun because it is facility-esque but it's disappointing for the reasons you said, the layout is too conventional, the AI is too boring and the guns aren't interesting enough.

>>10345935
>>10345938
>>10345941
This is insane

>>10354483
We've already been over this.

>>10358529
are you really this stupid? i can't believe it. explain why you typed that. Do not fucking tell me you thought these are n64 screens

>>10358548
The Perfect Dark webm looks legit.

>>10358569
it is. why did you tag the other shit?

>>10345995
And talk like a stupid bimbo in the comment sections here

>>10358548
The racing game is obviously just upscaled in emulator. Most games of that generation still look like shit even upscaled

>>10358584
>tag
Go back

>>10345921
>F-Zero X with 30 cars at 60 frames
Easy to do when your "cars" look like flat shaded pieces of blobs and the track is a rollercoaster through dense fog

>>10346886
You definitely sound like someone who played with someone's cum as a child

>>10346996
How did they get away with marketing this thing as ray tracing?

>>10345921
>Weren't the PS1 and Saturn equally as strong?
Literally noone has ever said this.

I smell a troll.

>>10359032
Yes, PS1 is stronger in pure polygon count and texture quality. N64 masks its shortcomings with vaseline smear

>>10359052
>vaseline smear
I hate how there is no way to make it look good, even on a crt. PSX games aged much better.

>>10359091
False, looks great on a CRT with composite if your TV is sharp enough

>>10347104

>>10359091
Try deblur mods

>>10359052
The PS1 had no advantages but textures and texture detail really doesn't do a lot for old games, that's why the initial excitement about adding texture packs to old games died off. It just looks weird and unnatural having HD texture packs in a game like Quake.

There's some meme theory that PS1 can do 2D better as the N64 sprites are actually just flattened 3D objects, which sounds plausible but is suspicious.

>>10359123
>it's the guy who flexes by posting screencaps with 90s text rendering as if he browses on a win95 machine

>>10359091
>jagged edges and wobbly minecraft textures = good
>soft anti-aliasing and blurry textures = bad
Let's face it. Both are "shit" by modern standards, so why all the fuss? Take a step back and you'll see that each one has its own unique charm.

>>10359123
>one million
You have too many zeroes there buddy

>>10359123
>It just looks weird and unnatural having HD texture packs in a game like Quake.
Vanilla Quake 1 has decent textures. Unless it's the N64 version.

>>10358987
And yet the 29 AI cars behave like real players, and not just mindless drones that plagued most games including GT2.
But I guess that requires no additional system resources either in your world.
Keep coping

>>10359323
Except that nintendos numbers are more representative of realworld performance, while sony just pulled bullshit straight out of their ass.
Name one game that does >10k polygons per frame @ 30fps.
Even Crash barely reaches 60k per second and thats from one of the best developers they had.

Reminds me of segas claim where the Saturn could do 500k polys per second, because the vdp2 layer needs x amount of polygons to emulate on a playstation.

>>10346008
With that render distance, the low screen resolution, the vaseline smear anti-aliasing and low fps, there's no way anyone could claim the N64 was on par with the Dreamcast. Look at any multiplatform game at the time and the DC shits all over the N64.

>>10359381
I’d say soul reaver had the most polys on PS1
Not sure what it’s count is

>>10359123
>PS1 had no advantages
PS1 has:
>additive blending
Making the special effects like picrel possible, something not seen on N64.
>generally more polygons being used -
180k per second textured and shaded and 360k untextured. Some games used combinations of both making the total number something in between. N64 games with standard fast3D microcode had ~100k, Rare custom microcode used in their last N64 games allowed for slightly more than 100k but no exact value was given. Theoretical peak with turbo microcode was 500k which is higher than PS1 but ironic thing is that Nintendo didn't allow to use it and unless some homebrew developer proves this number it stays theoretical. In practice N64 was as fillrate starved as it was texture size starved.
>CD media
Allowed high quality music and speech and more asset variety.

>>10359413
>additive
why did n64 not implement this simple thing that's so crucial to 90s 3d aesthetics?

>>10359413
>generally more polygons being used
If this was the case, then why didn’t they do that?
Something like perfect dark should’ve been easy to run on it and yet even alien resurrection struggled

>>10359374
>Keep coping
You're the only mindless drone here.
>>10359381
>Reminds me of segas claim
PSX couldn't run pic related.

>>10359381
>Except that nintendos numbers are more representative of realworld performance
Explain why no N64 racing game has car models on Gran Turismo level. Not even WDC where developers switched Z buffer off to gain more performance. Or why no N64 fighting game has characters models on Tekken 3 level. Or why Ridge Racer 64 car models are much more simple than RRT4 cars. Or why N64 port of Quake 2 used 2D sprites for player viewmodels instead of real 3D models.

>>10359447
>If this was the case, then why didn’t they do that?
They did use more polygons. N64 has higher theoretic number but it was never used.
>Something like perfect dark should’ve been easy to run on it and yet even alien resurrection struggled
I don't get your point. Perfect Dark framerate often tanks to under 20fps. Alien Resurrection is more fast and solid.

>>10359468
GT2 drops in framerate with multiple cars on screen. WDC doesn't.

>>10359440
It wasn't seen as crucial when N64 hardware was developed. Non-accelerated PCs didn't have it. Sega Model 2 arcade hardware didn't have it. Saturn didn't have it.

>>10359468
What are the actual triangle counts per frame for each of these games? You can use the debug features on emulators to look it up. Just pulling numbers out of your ass and vague statements isn't helpful.
None of those racing games go above 2k polys per frame. I have no numbers for tekken 3 so you can look it up and report here.

>>10359484

>>10359495
Gt2 drops harder with fewer cars on screen.
Also those track design tricks are nothing others arent doing either.

Lol
>We were trying to work out whether to do it with the Nintendo machine or not. … There was a while there where we were going back and forth between the N64 and PlayStation, seeing what we could do with 3D graphics on each system.
>I kind of had a suspicion that things weren’t going too well for the 64 at that point, because … one of my responsibilities … was to write performance applications that compared how well the 64 fared against the prototype [PlayStation]. And we’d be running parallel comparisons between the [PlayStation] where you’d have a bunch of 2D sprites bouncing off the screen and see how many polygons you could get within a 60th of a second. And even without any kind of texturing or any kind of lighting, it was less than 50% of what you would be able to get out of the [PlayStation]. Of course, the drawback of the [PlayStation] is it didn’t really have a z-buffer, so you’d have these overlapping polygons that you’d have to work around so that you wouldn’t get the shimmering [look]. But on the other hand, there was no way you’d be able to get anything close to what FF7 was doing [on PlayStation] on the 64 at that time.
https://www.polygon.com/a/final-fantasy-7