/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10334285
warped had none of the hype or marketing that dk64 had behind it though lets be real.

>>10334285
everyone who hates on DK64 is just stupid

With the gimmick of 3D gaming also came the hype of graphics fags and their "realism" obsession that persists to this day among jerkers of graphics and lovers of CGI schlock of all sorts. Cartoon character games just started to be less cool to people.

3D Platformers/Collectathons didnt die because of DK64, that game was well received by critics at the time and sold well.
What killed the genre was the change in demographic, kids didnt want to play as cartoon animals collecting things anymore, they wanted games like GTA, DMC, Halo and all the other shit with edge and street thug culture, hence why platformers from that time had more focus on story, TPS mechanics, vehicle driving and more complex combat, only a few games (mostly the ones based on kids shows and movies) kept the basic elements of 3d platformers/collectathons like Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom or Scooby Doo in Night of 100 Frights.

>>10334285
Gimmicks aside, I actually hate a different trend that this game helped revived: time trials in platformers. I'm not against the idea in general, like having competitive leaderboards for best times, but I fucking hate how they made them a completion requirement. In racing games, that's pretty understandable. Going fast is the whole point. But not here, especially in a game where lining up cycles correctly makes all the difference. The gimmicks just aggravate this problem, because now on top of everything, you're forced to spend half your time mastering levels that have nothing to do with the core game. Such a shitty way to bloat an otherwise good game.

With the advent of 3D, developers were definitely ambitious and wanted to try new things. I think that everything in Crash 3 is pretty tight for the most part (except the plane missions).

Picrel is a way better contender for "shoving as much random bullshit in as possible." Spyro 1 was tight and focused, 2 had some gimmicks, but I cannot stand replaying this fucking game.

>>10334449
I thought I was alone in this... I have fun doing a 100% run of Crash 1, and a 100% run of Crash 2... but after Crash 3, when Time Trials became standard, it felt like such a chore... can't stand it, don't find it fun at all.

>>10334285
Your theory is shit.
Crash 3 is the best crash.

What hurt the genre is 3 things:
1.)N64 collectathons like banjo which were never good, just big fucking time wasters (Mario 64 is not a collectathon, it's an obstacle course game which is what all of the GOOD platformers are)
2.)PS2 action platformers that tried to be edgy but were just cringe, and they tried to have action but they just ended up having mindlessly repetitive forced beat em up sections
3.) Being the go-to genre for all of the licensed shovelware for kids movies during the ps 2&3 era like Pixar shit, that were so fucking janky and broken beyond any anything ever seen on ps1. Dishonorable mention to Sonic 06

>>10334371
You say that, and yet the people who ignored the nigger trends (Nintendo) did the best and survived unscathed

>>10334512
Chuck E Cheese is still around too despite Showbiz, Major Magicks, Caesarland, etc all going under years ago. Which is to say, there's always going to be a market for something "for kids" that families feel is safe for them, even if the market somewhat dries up overall, one dependable thing can make it through. Nobody in gaming circles took the Gamecube seriously though as a contender, that's why it sunk to like 99 bucks halfway through the generation. Pretty much everyone I knew who had a Gamecube, myself included, picked it up when it went on sale after having already made the initial choice of PS2 or Hexbox.

I don't think any one game did it. I think it was just console gaming's core demographic exiting childhood and the advancement of 3D tech and nascent open world genre making the more humble 3D spaces of the traditional level based platformer seem unimpressive by comparison. If anything the "collectathon" is as alive as ever under the guise of "Ubisoft formula" map marker clearing games like Far Cry and Asscreed.

>>10334512
Nintendo did suffer for their kiddie image in 6th gen and their flagship gay purple lunchbox. They pivoted to hardware gimmicks and casual audiences to regain market share.

>>10334285
Halo killed platformers and single player games in general. Platformers were considered inferior to cinematic "serious" movie-like games. And new experience of online gaming on consoles was a big fad too. Also rise of MMOs for dumb people

>>10334285
There is no 3D platformer besides Mario. It's just mediocre Hugo rip-offs or collectathons

>>10334285
I'd argue GTA3 was the real nuke when it came to shifting the public and the industry's interest in "the future of gaming". Things became more realistic, more serious, and the gameplay followed. The idea of adding gimmicks is just a time honored tradition. Games get more complex and detailed>more content is added. First game is leaner and maybe even barebones, second brings back some ideas that were left on the cutting room for 1, some ideas are good some are bad, 3 they experiment further to see what more could be done, runs the risk of bloat and ideas being more bad than good.
With Crash 3 they were clearly running out of ideas for what more could be done with walking forward in a straight path and jumping. Coupled with internal problems regarding Universal they probably just wanted to get it over with and move on to something else.
It's hard to keep franchises feel fresh while at the same time the audience is asking for more of the same.

>>10334748
This is gay as fuck.

>>10334748
/thread sadly

>>10334285
I'd say DK64 is a prime example in trying to do too much with just platforming.
Meanwhile Spyro 3 is the best example of a platformer straying too far from just platforming.
You gotta have a good balance between just pure platforming and other stuff.

>>10334980
being bad at games doesn't make you straight anon sorry

>>10334512
n64 and gamecube were only popular in usa. they survived because they had enough of money from previous gens and them gameboys

>>10334285
So it's rares fault considering banjo kazooie.

>>10334464
This faggot ruined Spyro. Whenever he would show up I knew I was in for some bullshit.

>>10334285
Crash 1 is so fucking bad it made me not want to touch anything else from the franchise

>>10334464
How are the recent Spyro remakes? What’s the best way to get into the franchise as a Spyro virgin?

>>10335015
>they survived because they had enough of money from previous gens and them gameboys
while I didn't like the wii that much nor the wiiu, the ds was unironically their best invention to date.

>>10334464
> I cannot stand replaying this fucking game.
Same. For me Spyro 1 and 2 shit all over Crash, except perhaps in soundtrack as I love the Crash sound. But as for Spyro 3, jesus christ I have no desire to even pick it up. At least I can get some fun out of Crash 3, even if the platforming is ridiculously easy

>>10336226
play the originals first if you can on a ps1/2. remakes are a mixed bag on pc, kind of shit on console. controls feel a bit snappier in the remakes, but the overall physics, environments, and art are much better in the originals. I'm not that bothered by the remakes as others, I still play them from time to time out of convenience.

>>10334449
Road Crash has to be the worst level I had to platinum in this whole game. One thing the remakes did right, was change the time requirements.

>>10334748
Ah so it was shit to begin with

>>10336465
>remakes
it's a mixed feeling for me. Road Crash is definitely much worse in the original, but holy hell did they fuck up Hog Ride in remake. I also hate how they added them to Crash 1 and 2.

>>10334748
>those stock, unfinished looking graphics and blurry desktop wallpaper background

>>10334349
i blame sega for that, remember the sega doesn what ninendont and muh 16 bits, thats what made people lose their shit about graphics

>>10336561
Blame NEC and their PC-Engine, actually.

ND followed up Crash Warped with the first Jak & Daxter game though, what kind of retarded argument is this.

>>10334285
I'm of the mindset that 3D platformers never really went anywhere. Mario and Sonic got games consistently throughout, the PS2 had three exclusive platformer trilogies (four if you count Ape Escape), Xbox got both Conker and Blinx, and we got a handful of other series during that time period like Pac-Man World 2 and 3, Tak, Ty, Vexx, and Scaler. Uncharted basically replaced Jak during Gen 7, but we still had plenty of Mario and Sonic games, as well as stuff like Epic Mickey and Pac-Man's reboot game.

>>10335015
Look up the sales for mario 64. Now compare that to any 3d platformer on ps2 or Xbox.

Lol up the sales for mario galaxy, now compare that to any platformer on ps360.

I'm not even a tendie and i fucking hate the 64, but your point is completely moot. Getting 1 trillion DVD player sales isn't the same as selling games. Also, one company making more money than you doesn't magically make you lose money. In fact, Xbox has NEVER made a profit and microshit has been subsidizing it the whole entire time.

>>10336786
>I'm not even a tendie
True, but you're stiil a /v/trad faggot that should go back with your little gay pedo buzzwords.

>>10336226
Play the original Spyro 1 then enjoy your memories of it.

>>10336932
>pedo buzzwords
Why are you on this website ?

>>10337140
Force of habit. Yourself?

>>10336561
I dunno, it is a specific breed of graphics jerking that has to do specifically with how "realistic" CG can look and that being a deciding factor in the quality of something

I think these kind of people often don't care about gameplay really anyway, they just get sweaty thinking about technological advances. You could probably make a game where you rake dirt, and they'd go on about how you can see the individual grains of dirt move around your garden tool and why that's so apparently the most awesome thing ever

>>10334285
You could tell Naughty Dog were getting tired of platformers when they made this, every second level was a damn vehicle level. Still a top tier game with really good aesthetics. I find it funny how when they had one more year of having rights to the Crash IP from universal, they were like "let's make a racing game", then they ended making one of the best kart racers of all time.

>>10337305
wish they had more of those day time arabian levels instead of just one and making the rest night levels. this one just that nice, warm feel to it.

>>10336546
Yeah, adding time trials in the first two games sort of cancelled out the improvements they did with the time trials in Crash 3.
Sunset Vista is already hard enough without rushing through with zero mistakes.

>>10334748
nice TAS bro

>>10334498
Now interesting see Coco Bandicoot prequel spin off for SNES

>>10339034
they could've definitely done that sort of coco game on gba. the series itself has a perfectly convenient between crash 1 and 2 where they could explain how she managed to reunite with crash. they sort of actually tried doing that some bonus stages in Crash 4, but that wasn't very satisfying and certainly left room for more. I would definitely play a coco prequel covering that part of the story on any system.

>>10339034
they could've definitely done that sort of coco game on gba. the series itself has a perfectly convenient gap between crash 1 and 2 where they could explain how she managed to reunite with crash. they sort of actually tried doing that some bonus stages in Crash 4, but that wasn't very satisfying and certainly left room for more. I would 100% play a coco prequel covering that part of the story on any system.

>>10337305
>You could tell Naughty Dog were getting tired of platformers
They immediately made Jak and Daxter just as the next generation came aorund.

>>10334512
>N64
>GC
>WiiU
>Survive unscathed
lmao
nintendo was kept on life support because of pokemon/handheld market dominance, and the burnt bridge that was the wii. They didn't "survive unscathed", it took 20 years for the market to vindicate their approach with the switch and have had their ass handed by sony for 3 out of 5 generations they've shared the market. Fucking nobody owned any of the systems I mentioned.

>>10339250
GBA music need sound like Sword of Mana and DKC etc with 3D gameplay the like of Driv3r, Asterix and Obelix xxl and Tomb Riders demo.

Thought SNES fit more because FX rendering aircraft sequence.

>>10336967
>long 100%
>Final nasty boss get one shot.
How disappointed.

>>10340440
Please learn English before posting.

>>10340491
Sorry, I don’t know you?

>>10336786
>i fucking hate the 64
Take that back.

>>10340491
No, u

>>10334512
They were on life support the second the dev that carried their sorry asses through two console wars left. It was their own fault too, they had all the time in the world to buy them and didn't. The only thing that saved them was switch and account subscriptions from retards who couldn't pirate.

>>10339034
This is Coco thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQtdMFT43Yg&si=w-b-BgtkrGwK_F2I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMgBNTOPUl4&si=S_lIHbhcPx2zYL7Y

https://gembit.itch.io/crash-back-in-time

>>10334371
Best post of the thread.
And this thread looks like another thread of "trying new things is bad". Just like the one which complained about fighting games including beat'em up modes some time ago. If you are like that, consider leaving for /v/ - new games should be just right up your alley, since they have zero new ideas.

>>10341085
We're just gonna pretend the Wii, DS, and 3DS didn't exist? Alright then.

>>10341085
>More idiotic Rareware revisionism
How has Rare been doing these last 20 years compared to Nintendo? Because one is the biggest company in Japan, and the other did Sea of Theives and the worst Banjo game of all time

>>10341085
Microsoft outbid Nintendo on Rare, Nintendo didnt just decide to give them away.
Rare was nothing compared to what it was just a couple of years after this happened. Nintendo was 100% in the right.

>>10343145
It took Rare five whole years to make Conker, not release it, then remake it from scratch with a cutscene of Pikachu being killed by a chainsaw. Between that, Goldeneye being a rail shooter developed with a Saturn controller by six literal who nobodies and making no money despite being the third best selling N64 game with multiplayer being an afterthought shit out in the last few weeks of development, Killer Instinct being a massive late downgrade from the arcades, Diddy Kong Racing being rushed out the door before being finished for Christmas and using Diddy Kong as a marketing gimmick, the Stop N' Swop fiasco, DK64 being literally too big for anyone to have fun with past Jungle Japes, Perfect Dark running at single digit FPS with the expansion pak... Nintendo was probably hysterically laughing as Microsoft outbid them and took the junk away while paying to do so.

In retrospect, Banjo was a miracle and anyone can make a Donkey Kong platformer (Looking at you, Retro Studios and team who later made Super Mario Galaxy)

>>10343124
spilling the fact, former rareware basically cucked themselves to burger overlord

>>10340440
You know what. SNES is feasible.

DK64fags are the Mega Man 8 fags of DK

>>10335014
Ok smelee

>>10340269
Four years later, compared to one game a year, not immediately.

>>10344880
>mindbroken for no reason 4 days later because someone called you a scrub
lol

>>10334285
Reminder that anyone that hates on Crash 3 cannot bike for shit. No exceptions.

>>10336759
NEC not yet wrong. Mortal Kombat just garbage nowadays.

>>10345985
Warped biker Coco got greaser style!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLrAkev47Ww&si=QP2Absdw8NwySrnX

Someone needs to get their fucking head out of their ass and make a collectathon that takes like 1000 hours to beat. Don't even be coy about it, just place down as many things to pick up as possible, have 30 different near identical characters and make every piece interlock in the most convoluted way just to waste more time. Have a time trial for every minuscule action in the game and don't even bother to playtest the par requirement. Make it so unabashedly tedious that those autists who get 100% on all three saves for Binding of Isaac will cry when they realize that each completed save has new unlocked content which is required for a new fourth save that also conveniently takes twice as long as the prior ones. Make this game so chock full of useless shit to do that the minigames are miniature collectathons. Have the time of day correspond to what can be acquired, and DMCA anyone who uploads a strategy guide so that everyone is kept in the dark and has to actually sit down to experience the peak of sadomasochistic game design. THEN, maybe people will finally shut the fuck up about DK64 being too long and killing the genre.

>>10343124
>the biggest company in Japan
That's Toyota

>>10346330
sad it's just a PC mod

>>10335014
>>10345593
Let’s see your speedrun if you’re so good, nigger.

>>10334371
I agree, but also I think people simply got tired of platformers. 90s was THE platformer era; for 10 years, platformers were the best selling games everywhere. Mario, DKC, Sonic, Crash, Spyro all sold like crazy; even games like Croc sold very well. after 10 years, I guess people have started getting platformer fatigue. happens to a lot genres. Japan got sick of turn based RPGs, PC fans got sick of endless C&C clones and MMOs, the list goes on.
and I think someone said here that platformers were one of the first truly 3D genres. in the PSX era you had pre-rendered BGs like in FF7 and RE, or just plain 2D gameplay of MGS. but this changed in the PS2 era, far more games went "true" 3D, including GTA3. so platformers felt like they were behind the times.

>>10346723
>I guess people have started getting platformer fatigue.
That explain why 2004 malice, wrath of cortex (retro Crash 4) and Mario sunshine failed

>>10346790
I think it's all 3 things—rejection of "kiddy" games, platformer fatigue and rise of other genres—that together made platformers feel "old".
plus I think in general there was too many fuckups in that era. Crash not only dropped the ball with Wrath of Cortex, it was double bad because the gameplay started looking ancient next to GTA3. Spyro turned to shit too. Sunshine was "64 with fludd" and to this day gets very mixed opinions. Banjo and DK simply vanished.
compare this to the era when SM64 was basically a groundbreaking game and Crash was showing how you could do platforming in 3D. literally everything went wrong for the genre in 6th gen.

>>10334498
Crash 3 kinda rashes out with cut content.

Same thing to WoC and CT.

>>10345985
I like the game the rest of the game enough to tolerate the bike sections, but they were sorely disappointing. I think I just bought in to the marketing and cover art a bit too much, thinking they were going to be the highlight of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMjHOUxatX4
Does anyone else feel it too?

>>10347873
yeah. it's my favorite completion award from any game period. much later did I realize it was meant to be their farewell to Crash.

>>10347953
yep, CTR was ND's last Crash game and they went into it knowing that. Believe it or not, I spoke with one of the devs while they were working on CTR. He didn't mention Jak specifically but he did make very clear that ND was moving on to new things.

>>10334510
>>10334748
this

>>10347858
>>10346580
Good new: fixed "toy for censored" outfits
Bad new: the mod got deleted after three months ago

>>10334371
I have to a certain extent wonder how much was the market and how much was devs wanting to make mature games for mature gamers, like Ratchet & Clank and Spyro seemed to do fine for themselves as replacements for Spyro and Crash/Jak, and Naughty Dog has spent the last 20 years getting further up their own ass against actual market demand.

>>10350880
Last of Us was a mistake

>>10350880
>Naughty Dog has spent the last 20 years getting further up their own ass against actual market demand.
>actual market demand
did I just misunderstand what you said? they always followed public demand. both unsharted and tlou sold fuckloads of copies and are in the top ps3/4 games respectively. it was after jak 1 when they decided it was time to get more "mature" and more like your average AAA game. how is this "against actual market demand"?

>>10337305
desu I don't think it's them getting tired as much as the limited 2.5d nature of crash. How many ways are there to mix up you running in a straight line and jumping on boxes. the gimmick segments were just a way for them to change the tempo and physics of that run forward obstacle course formula

>pure platformer gameplay with mature/semi-realistic aesthetic
>hardmode: can't be a shooter or a superhero open world game or involve sword combat
Has this ever been done? Like a futuristic test subject given jump augments.

>>10352365
honestly the closest thing in spirit to this is death stranding.

>>10350880
uncharted is somewhat problematic but I've always thought it was weird the way people treat it as naughtydog doing some 180* betrayal of their former selves. A lighthearted indiana jones action romp feels like a pretty natural direction for them to go.

>>10352365
mirror's edge if it were in third person

>>10346330
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP6s11IEpUA&si=OC56iTViKPK0Fo0x

>>10334498
Why is this avifag shit still up

>>10354564
Cry more, faggot.

>>10354384
never heard of this but it looks cool. Visually, it captures the spirit of the original games much more than the official remaster.

>>10357323
>it captures the spirit of the original games much more than the official remaster.
Honestly, crash remake trilogy more faithful than Spyro reimagined by Toy for Bobs

>>10357338
I think the original Crash games look great but original Spyro games were on another level. Those games have an incredible aesthetic and the artists knew how to use the limitations of the hardware to their advantage. The transition to higher fidelity graphics likely wasn't possible without destroying that original aesthetic.

>>10343052
Neet

>>10357323
>widescreen
Trash

>>10357323
>Unity

>>10357362
them skyboxes were somethin alright

>>10357445
>>10357501
The dev has android port ready. Someone will do psx/SNES fx homebrew in no time.

>>10336759
How?

>>10334285
I think both Donkey Kong 64 and Crash 3 were both symptoms of the platformer genre becoming stale.

Donkey Kong 64 was following the collectathon gimmick to its logical end, while Crash 3 was following the gimmick gameplay modes to their logical ends.

>>10334748
Sorry nin-toddler, but your precious Mario is NOT safe from criticism. The level design is one of the biggest problems with Mario 64, where every single world feels very bland and meaningless, and the only thing you have to go on for solving the star is a vague description.

On top of this, the N64 controller was annoying as fuck and definitely made controlling Mario more of a pain in the ass than enjoyable.

>>10336786
>in-fact Xbox has never made a profit
If that's a fact, then the Playstation stopped making a profit since the PS3 days.

>>10334306
Playing games where you run around like a jackass collecting random bullshit is stupid.

>>10354384
>bounce-across-boxes-over-pits segments everywhere
pass

>>10352365
portal

>>10358924
If you think “big penguin race” and “navigate the toxic maze” are vague, I pray you don’t come across silent hill, zoom or.

>>10352365
Tomb Raider?

>>10358924
DK64 can’t fallow old gameplay format because Crash already copied into perfection.
>>10360020
Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC241ORb5dk&si=kn_D3ur2PcbzSdIt

>>10358932
However PS4 smash bypass 100 million.

>>10334306
Playing tiny kong section was fun

>>10334285
The idea that DK64 "killed the genre" is absurd. There have been dozens of genres, when have you heard that a genre fell out of popularity for decades because of one bad release. Don't we constantly get bad releases of FPS, cinematic games, and open world games? If it was true that one anticipated bad release kills a genre not only would those genres be dead but so would ever fucking genre because it happens all the time.

The technology to make games were you could do more in a 3D environment besides just run around and jump just wasn't there. Once it was running around and collecting bananas just isn't as compelling. This isn't hard to understand.

>>10359856
>Mario Wings to the Sky
>Behind Chain Chomp’s Gate
>Shoot into the Wild Blue
>Blast Away the Wall
>Can the Eel Come out and Play?
>Wall Kicks will Work
>Snowman’s Lost his Head
>Secret of the Haunted Books
>Metal-Head Mario Can Move!
>Pyramid Puzzle
>Top O’ The Town
>Express Elevators–Hurry Up!
>Mysterious Mountainside

Nice cherry-picking though. You're being a disingenuous shill if you think those aren't vague as fuck.

>>10359856
>Mario Wings to the Sky
>Behind Chain Chomp’s Gate
>Shoot into the Wild Blue
>Blast Away the Wall
>Can the Eel Come out and Play?
>Wall Kicks will Work
>Snowman’s Lost his Head
>Secret of the Haunted Books
>Metal-Head Mario Can Move!
>Pyramid Puzzle
>Top O’ The Town
>Express Elevators–Hurry Up!
>Mysterious Mountainside

Nice cherry-picking though. You're being a disingenuous shill if you think those aren't vague as fuck, especially for a 7 year old.

>>10357501
LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqYpYubWwZw&si=dz59jtCKWcdU4-Y4

>>10357323
It's really good but they next to fix their sizes, some fonts are all over the place and some objects are way smaller than others. Maybe it's just me.

>>10335005
Stupid question

>>10336081
>let's ripto in
>argues against bringing in a dragon
>gets '"lost" on the way back to glimmer
>blatantly lies about what he was doing in a way meant to be obvious to the 8-year old target audience
im still convinced he was initially written in to be revealed as a traitor at some point, but insomniac got cold feet near the end of development on this idea after they had finished most of the cinematics. the retard act that was originally meant to be his thinly veiled cover was converted into his actual personality.

>>10362171
>a traitor at some point
Anti-hero hunter seem intriguing

>>10359704
But has coco-chan playable

>>10362704
it's a pretty nice bonus because we've never had that model fully playable

>>10363367
Yes, now if she have wrath of cortex animation moveset. Now echo complete.

>>10362235
>>10362171
it makes me wonder now, do any of the later spyro games ever go into hunter's backstory, as in his origins before spyro 2?

>>10343052
cool

>>10359831
64 has playability

>>10352365
tony hawk 4 felt that way to me more than any other game. probably for THUG and THUG2, but never got around to trying them.

>>10365443
THUG is basically THPS4 with a story mode, while THUG2 has a story mode that's basically "Tony Hawk and Bam Margera's Legally Distinct From Jackass World Tour of Vandalism", and a classic mode reminiscent of 1 to 3. Both are better than THPS4 too

it's a shame Naughty Dog went from making cool and fun games to making hopelessly miserable shit, even adapting a "we don't say fun" policy.

>>10365794
If rational Sony ceo fired nu-executive, woke dev, remove blackrock and rehire og crash creator

>>10334748
Is there a single n64 game with soulful skyboxes?

imagine this tasteless garbage being your childhood

>>10334748
Real gamer play Castlevania 64