/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10328781
It's the Dreamcast.

>>10328781
>saturn
PS1 put Saturn in the grave

>>10328782
>Dreamcast
expectation for the PS2 put DC in its place

>>10328781
>i think that the saturn doesn't get the credit it deserves for putting sega in the grave
first day here?

>>10328781
As much of a misbegotten failure as the Saturn was, it pales in comparison to what the PCFX did to NEC

>>10328847
Look, I love the PC engine but it's clear that it was just lighting in a bottle, it took advantage of the Famicom aging hardware and it's clear NEC had no idea what to do to be competitive on the console market, just look at the failure that was the super grafx

>>10328782
Dreamcast did a lot more right than the Saturn, but at that point the damage was already done and it was too late to save SEGA, it's a shame...

>>10328782
Dreamcast could have kept Sega alive if it weren't rushed out half a generation early to cover for the abject failure of the Saturn

>>10328781
The Saturn itself was just one mistake in the grand of incompetence Sega had under their belt.
The reality is that Sega simply couldn't compete with Sony no matter what they did, Sega was famous for being the "dudebro" vidya company that also had Sonic, when Sony came they did Sega's thing better than Sega ever did.
In fact, if we consider Sega's history after and before the Genesis, you'd see that they were basically an one hit wonder company.

>>10328781
The Saturn was the most popular Sega console in Japan
Being able to play Virtua Fighter at home was kind of a big fucking deal

the sad-urn killed sega
when Wakasi Sugimotto decided to add that 4th dac chip for 6.2 channel surround sould it was all over

>>10328798
Beat me to it. Sony killed SEGA with PS1 and PS2, even though I prefer Dreamcast over both

why did they try to pivot to 3d at the last second and scupper the amazing potential of a 2d saturn?

>>10328870
>just look at the failure that was the super grafx

yeah, supergrafx was ridiculous and very ugly
pc engine just needed the 8 megabit hucards earlier on. bomberman 94, let alone a 4 megabit game like air zonk, looks better than every single supergrafx game

>>10328781
>the atari jaguar,
Many say Atari was dead before this console anyways. The console was just basically a laughable joke from an already dead brand by that point.

>>10331984
>doom has no music whatsoever
>rayman and tempest 2k, the best games on the whole system, are immediately ported and improved on ps and saturn

what a joke

Pic related. The NES, whilst not the global phenomenon that Americans would have you believe, was still a very large success for Nintendo, granting them near monopoly status in a few countries. Then the PC Engine came out, to which Nintendo had no response. Then the Mega Drive came out, and still no response. It wasn't until 2 years later that Nintendo finally released a successor, which largely fell flat because of it's immediately apparent inability to play action games at a decent speed (Gradius 3, Super R-Type) which is mostly thanks the "withered technology" approach Nintendo was pushing, resulted in largely underwhelming hardware design with a slow CPU, numerous bottlenecks, lower resolution, and the only obvious advantage over it's peers being the "mode 7" fake 3D effect, which was a gimmick that could not sustain an entire console. During the SNES lifespan, Nintendo lost half of they're market share to Sega, and, counting all of the Mega Drive variations which were sold for years beyond the SNES, were never able to surpass the Mega Drive's total sales and worldwide popularity. This was the beginning of they're decline into irrelevancy, which was the opening Sony needed to sweep in and dominate the gaming industry.
It didn't even sell as much as the NES. Pretty sad!

>>10330643
2D was dead and buried. Remember the PC-FX?

>>10333010
Why did Nintendo decide to make the American SNES so ugly?

>>10333035
The pc fx was a failure for other reasons

>>10333038
The Japanese are racist

>made by one of the most historic video game companies
>All games are just ports of shitty Europoor Amiga "Games"
>Console bricked itself if programmed incorrectly
>Looks like toilet with cd add on
>Meme architecture
>"Where did you learn to fly"
Rip Bozo

>Pretty much just a consolized C64 in 1990
>had to be recalled because the pack-in game required you to push the Start key, which wasn't anywhere in the console or controllers

>Pretty much just a consolized C64 in 1990
>had to be recalled because the pack-in game required you to push the Start key, which wasn't anywhere in the console or controllers

>>10328994
Sega were incredibly successful in the arcade market, their home consoles were basically seen as a side business until arcades really started dying.

>>10330643
The Saturn's 3D hardware actually increased its 2D abilities immensely.
It was just the time, and developers were all pivoting to 3D

>>10333076
>>had to be recalled because the pack-in game required you to push the Start key, which wasn't anywhere in the console or controllers

>>10333052
>All games were Amiga ports
?
You're thinking of the CD32, retardanon.
The Jaguar had a wide range of dreadful games from many sources

>>10333104
>You're thinking of the CD32, retardanon.
The base architecture is the same and my point saying that most of the programmers were Europoors who only worked on Amiga Games prior still stands.

>>10333043
such as?

>>10333123
Deez nuts.

>>10333126
You should get checked for prostate cancer

>>10333123
>such as?
No games

>>10333140
You should get checked for brain cancer.

>>10333121
They had completely different architectures.

The main CPsU were both in the m68k family if that's what you're talking about but so was the CPU of the Sega Mega Drive.

>>10333141
So no different to the Saturn except even less multiplatform games. Naruhodo

>>10333142
My guy, you're the one advocating for a 2D Saturn here

>>10333148
>The main CPsU were both in the m68k family if that's what you're talking about
Yes correct....THE BASE ARCHITECTURE

>>10333183
>My guy, you're the one advocating for a 2D Saturn here
No I'm not, I'm not the same anon you were arguing with schizo anon.

>>10333194
Well then you can kindly fuck off, shithead anon.

>>10333076
>>10333101
And on top of that, the solution they gave was not to add a controller with a start button, but to simply pack in a different multicart cartridge with games that didn't use it. So you couldn't even play your existing Commodore 64 cartridge games if they required you to use that key to start the game.

>>10333189
"base architecture" is not a thing. You meant to say computer architecture, or less ambiguously: ISA

And it's a retarded thing to get hung up on. Especially since the Jaguar had 3 different CPUs and m68ks were very common.
A ton of machines used them including Sega Mega Drive, Sega arcades, Capcom arcades, Neo Geo arcades, Amiga, Atari ST, Sharp X68k, ....

Clearly those are all the exact same thing as the Atari Jaguar since they share the same base architecture. Also, I love to eat crayon.

>>10333225
>And it's a retarded thing to get hung up on.
Not really since most games on the jaguar used it as the only CPU.

>>10333228
So did most games on a CPS-2, you drooling retard.

>>10333238
You are reddit.

>>10333010
>Pic related.
>Consoles that put a brand out of business.
dude. nintendo lived to win the console wars again and again.

>>10333052
>>made by one of the most historic video game companies
Atari a shit. still is.

>>10333262
>dude. nintendo lived to win the console wars again and again.
Literally didn't happen until the Wii if we're talking about home consoles

>power supply is literally the size of a printer
>turning it on generates a tape-wiping EMP
>why yes they do think controller design peaked with the colecovision
>not even cabbage patch kids could save the company from this money pit

>>10333274
>>power supply is literally the size of a printer
That's because the power supply is literally the printer kek. Who engineered this?

>>10328781
>the absolute failure that was the amiga,
The Amiga itself did fine and was very profitable. It was very popular in Europe and seen on the same level as the SNES and Mega Drive in that region. They had big howlers like the CD32 but Commodore's problems were more related to management power struggles that bankrupted the company than the popularity of its product because even when the original iteration of Commodore went bankrupt it was still seen as a viable platform.

>>10333262
They lost with the SNES. They lost HARD with the N64. They lost even harder with the GameCube. They bowed out with the Wii and haven't competed ever since then. Which, exactly, console war did Nintendo "win" again?

>>10333082
Perhaps i should've specified that i was talking about the console division rather than just "Sega".

>>10333404
>snoy proves his worth of a gold medalist in mental gymnastics by excusing the times nintendo won

>>10333487
Literally once after the nes kek
T.not anon

>>10333010
good to see you're still seething about this japanese company, auster.
the super nintendo inside of you, forever.

>>10333502
Sad to see that you couldn't discredit a single thing in that post, I guess everything in it was correct.
>a-a-AUSTER!!!
Not a rebuttal.

>>10333575
I'm not interested in console warring, I like video games in general. Luckily grew up with both Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis back in the 90s, instead of bad amateur games on microcomputers, I got to experience all the good japanese stuff.
>Not a rebuttal.
It wasn't a rebuttal, it was just me saying I'm glad you're still seething, as always, and forever. Super Nintendo will keep living inside of your mind until the day you die (and pray there's not an afterlife because you will have to keep seething about it there, too, lol)

>>10333010
>the best selling console of the 4th generation by a wide margin is the one that killed a company that would go on to release the best selling handheld and console of all time
Some real derangement happens on this board.

>>10333603
>"the best selling console of the 4th generation by a wide margin"
>only compares official first party Sega sales figures throughout the 1990's
>not comparing various licensed revisions such as Wondermega, LaserActive PAC, or modern revisions such as AtMega, or countless unlicensed clones that were available throughout the Mega Drive's lifespan and continue to be produced today
The Mega Drive won and it wasn't even close.

>>10333687
>mega drive won because Sega whores out the name to absolute garbage clone consoles decades later
Super Famicom sold more in the 90s.

>>10333691
>Mega Drive lost because...because...IT JUST DID, OK??
Doesn't matter what brand was on the unit, more people bought Mega Drives overall and it wasn't even close. SNES clones weren't available until more recently, and even to this day aren't nearly as wide-spread.

>>10333703
>more people bought Mega Drives overall and it wasn't even close
Wrong.
>SNES clones weren't available until more recently
SNES clones have been around since the mid 2000s.

>>10333715
>SNES clones have been around since the mid 2000s.
And Mega Drive clones have been around since the early 1990's, which is why "SNES clones weren't available until more recently", reading comprehension. It's also why more people bought Mega Drives overall and it wasn't even close.
Ask anyone in Russia which console they had.
Ask anyone in Brazil which console they had.
Sorry that it's a hard pill to swallow, but this is why the Mega Drive is far more beloved these days. More people played it, more people remember it, more people are fond of it.

>>10333726
>Ask anyone in Russia which console they had
The Dendy, a Famiclone
>Ask anyone in Brazil which console they had
Master System.

Also what do thirdie clones have to do with console sales?

>>10333732
>The Dendy, a Famiclone
Christ you're dense. We're comparing SNES and Mega Drive, please try to keep up.
>Also what do thirdie clones have to do with console sales?
There is no reason not to count clones as "console sales".

>>10333738
>We're comparing SNES and Mega Drive, please try to keep up
You said to ask which console someone had in Russia in the 90s, the answer is the Dendy.
>There is no reason not to count clones as "console sales"
Nobody counts bootlegs as sales. That makes literally no sense.

>>10333741
>You said to ask which console someone had in Russia in the 90s, the answer is the Dendy.
Thank you for continuing to demonstrate a complete lack of reading comprehension. I've made my point and you have no rebuttal.
>Nobody counts bootlegs as sales. That makes literally no sense.
If you have a bootleg, you have that console, you can play games for that console. It is functionally no different than owning a licensed console. The only people who care about excluding bootlegs when talking about a system's popularity, which, again, is what this discussion is about, because I know you have trouble keeping up, are the executives working at Sega or Nintendo, which I can guarantee you most certainly are not.

>>10333756
>It is functionally no different than owning a licensed console
You clearly know nothing about clone consoles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY9wdgtRs3s
Sega is definitely winning selling junk for pennies with the Mega Drive label though.

>>10328781
SEGA is still in business.

>>10328906
>street fighter versus x-men series is at peak popularity in arcades
>potential console mover
>HURRR DURRR LET'S MAKE THE BEST VERSION JP ONLY, WESTOIDS WON'T NOTICE NO CHARACTER SWAPS
SEGA can go suck a bag of dicks.

>>10328782
>It's the Dreamcast.
No. The Dreamcast didn't kill Sega. The Dreamcast was fine.

The huge failure of the Sega 32x and Sega Saturn put Sega on life support.

>>10328847
>decide that 3D is just a fad, make your console 2D-focused
>3D consoles end up beating it at 2D anyway
>decide that wintel is just a fad, focus on making your PC platform be good at Japanese language shit
>Wintel ends up beating you at Japanese language shit
NEC was truly a company

>>10333038
They had marketing data from VCRs manufacturers that indicated Americans like their home entertainment appliances to be large.

Of course, Americans actually preferred VCRs and stereos to be large so they could fix them when they inevitably shat themselves. It's not clear that Americans had an particular love for the giant tank console designs Nintendo brought out.

>>10328781
The Amiga wasn't a failure. It sold well up until the early 90s. The appearance of SVGA, AdLib/Sound Blaster, and the insane performance gains in x86 seen after the introduction of the 386 is what ended up sinking it.

Has any company had more shit consoles than Nintendo? GameCube, wiiu, virtual boy? Even N64 is nostalgia goggled failure compared to psx

>>10337248
Sega in number of consoles, Microsoft in ratio of consoles.

>>10337276
Cope.

>>10337068
no 2d game was a console mover and arcades were rapidly becoming irrelevant.

>>10337276
>number of consoles
SG-1000/SC-3000 - yea kinda shit
Mark III/Master System - good
Game Gear - see above
Mega Drive/Genesis - good
Mega/Sega CD - bad
32X - meh/bad
Saturn - good
Dreamcast - good
i count 3 bad consoles, and 2 of them were addons. by my count thats 1 less than nintendo.
>ratio of consoles
microsoft hasn't released a truly bad console yet. a couple meh ones but they still get/got all the multiplats. nothing near the level of the sega cd or virtual boy.
>>10337248
Atari
5200, 7800, lynx (arguable), jaguar, jaguar cd, nu-VCS
every console they made after the 2600 is just crap. i think someone could make an argument for the lynx, but nothing on that system grabs me. the lynx was an Epyx creation anyways.

>>10337508
SEGA CD is fine. I prefer it over 3DO which was similar but had a heavier focus on FMV and adult games. CD-i is also close to this category but I haven't played it yet

>>10333010
What. There's a reason every Nintendo fanboy is stuck in the past reliving the 16 bit "console war" over and over: It was the last time Nintendo won.

Threadly reminder: Nintendo won

>>10337652
What are you talking about?
People that like Nintendo are Idorts
There are only two factions that do console war bullshit
Sony fanboys and SEGA fanboys and they both get mad when someone says they like Nintendo

>>10337697
>nuh-uh people that like MY brand of choice are patricians and don't engage in fanboy wars, unlike those filthy OTHER brands
Pathetic.

>>10337701
As someone who uses multiple boards, yes
Those two are the console war instigators every time

>>10337670

>>10337702
Delusional. On /vr/ Nintendo fanboys have always been the biggest console war shit stirrers, though this year Sega fanboys have been giving them a run for their money.

>>10337712
>nuh uh, it’s clearly other teams fanboys and we’re winning this year
Don’t you get tired of this bullshit?

>>10337705

>>10337670
>a company with a 11 year headstart is only 200 million away from losing
bruh

>>10339989
>11 year headstart
?

>>10337508
>megacd
>bad

Invalid opinion.

>>10337670
we get it bro, your handhelds are really cheap and play pokemon

>>10337670
>hire Sony to make a console add-on for you
>fuck them over and cancel it
>Sony releases their own console in retaliation
>completely kicks your ass despite your head start
Was there a bigger mistake in history than the SNES-CD?

>>10340029
meme
they didn't hire Sony at all

>muh headstart
lol maybe in another 30 years the giant electronics conglomerate will stop getting ass raped by a humble playing card merchant.

>>10340051
The PS1 sold more than the N64 and SNES combined.
Cope harder.

>>10340061
Coping harder would involve whinging about headstarts 30 years later. Oh wait...

>>10328781
Atari was an irrelevant brand (outside of arcades) before the 7800 even came out.

>>10340079
Where's the need for cope? Sony sold more home consoles than Nintendo did in their entire life time. That they started 2 generations later only makes it more impressive.

>>10340061
So what are you complaining about having a head start if only the NES preceded it?

>>10340089
What?
How fucking dumb are you
The reason is handhelds and the Wii+switch
There is no “headstart”
Read the table

>>10340104
I'm not complaining about anything.
I'm just expressing how impressive it is.

>>10340107
The table clearly says that Sony sold over a hundred million more consoles than Nintendo and I checked: Those numbers do include NES and SNES.

>>10340089
Except they didn't, so there's that. Firstly, Sony didn't even come close until well into PS2 era and still lag behind. And secondly Sony had been involved since the MSX in 1983.

>>10340114
The table says Nintendo have done over 200 million more than Sony.

>>10340123
>The table says Nintendo have done over 200 million more than Sony.
Only if you combine handhelds.
For actual consoles (Switch is also counted as a console there), Nintendo sold less.

>>10340132
>handheld consoles aren't consoles
Cope harder.

>>10340139
Who calls an handheld a console?

>>10340146
Aside from people who design and manufacture consoles? Everyone except you.

>>10340162
I don't know about you but I never had a conversation like
>Hey Billy! Check out my new console! - pulls out his game boy

>>10340167
Yeah and I never asked my mother for a Control Deck either, but there it was next to the rest of my Christmas presents. Anecdotes are cool like that.

>>10340010
>>10337630
not much interests me on it and what does is available on other platforms.
>snatcher
available on practically every other cd based platform at the time
>lunar
remade for saturn
>shining force cd
remake of game gear games
>popful mail
multiplat
sonic, shadowrun, keio flying squadron, and a bunch of enhanced ports are not enough to elevate a system to "good"

seems like there'd be plenty to play if you had it at the time though, especially if you were in the US and got the games that were only localised for it.

>>10333010
>"Anon go visit /vr/, I promise you it's not as delusional or posting constant bait as /v/!"
>See this and other examples in the catalog
lol. Maybe I should quit imageboards forever, there's really no point in genuine discussions if everyone just posts retarded bullshit for (You)s.

>>10328906
>Dreamcast did a lot more right than the Saturn,
Like what? The cheap, failing PSU? Or the poorly designed Dreamcast controller? Or the half assed, playstation style party games on the DC that no one bought? Perhaps the buggy as hell Sanic Adv game? Or is it the cheap DC optical drive / failing lasers? Hows the weather in bizarro world today?

>>10340194
Play more western games

Also Snatcher and Popful Mail are not in English outside of SEGA CD

>>10340194
It has a lot more than just those. When people call SEGA CD bad I have to wonder if they ever liked Genesis in the first place

Check out the other shmups, Terminator, maybe Vay or Dungeon Explorer if you like RPG's

>>10340397
>Or is it the cheap DC optical drive / failing lasers?
Only thing you got right. Even plugging in controllers became a nightmare with older dreamcasts.

>>10328781
>Amiga
Not a console and it was very successful, it's just Commodore made a run of bad decisions after and rested on their laurels too much.

>>10328781
Nope. 32X is the sole reason for that. The $399 price of the Saturn didn't help & then Bernie Stolar saying "the Saturn is not our future" caused multiple retailers to not carry any Sega hardware on store shelves. I had to go to the mall to buy one

>>10340562
Thomas Kalinske's shadowdrop was the reason retailers don't carry Sega hardware. Bernard Stolar just arranged the funeral.

>>10329047
>Being able to play Virtua Fighter at home was kind of a big fucking deal
>implying virtua fighter (tekken but bad) was ever popular

>>10340562
>>10340605
Both of you are ignorant.
The Sega boycott happened because during the surprise launch there weren't enough manufactured to distribute to every possible retailer and also because sega had like 5 other hardwares that weren't selling at all by the time the Saturn came in.

>>10340648should kill yourself.

>>10340915
Sorry facts trigger you, grampa

>>10329047
Saturn was a failure

Yeah yeah yeah. Attention bulk slash niggas. The astral assault ss translation is fucking awesome too and it works great with the 3d pad

>>10340496
Dreamcast is cheap, playstation style, budget hardware. I had several of those. They all broke down with moderate use. Saturn is a fucking tank in comparison.

>>10340648
>>10341232

/v/....my home

>>10337189
this was a NES thing, they also didnt want to be associated with the video game crash of 82 so they marketed the NES more as an entertainment deck and not a video game console

the NES was a completely different reason that I dont know why, the SNES and SFC are roughly the same size, so you're wrong.

>>10342278
*The SNES was a completely different reason

>>10342278
>>10342280
iirc whoever was in charge at NoA just didn't like the look of it.

>>10328781
>for putting sega in the grave.
Sega is still in business.

>>10340174
cringe

Where did the "Saturn was the VF console" come from? No one cared about VF then and no one cares about it now
>inb4 "muh japanese"

>>10342508
kill yourself

>>10342514
And here I thought you geezers would care enough about such an "influential" tech demo to give me a proper answer instead of getting triggered. Oh well

>>10342508
>>10342516
Saturn US release: mid 1995
Saturn US launch titles:
>Clockwork Knight
>Daytona USA
>Pebble Beach Golf Links
>Panzer Dragoon
>Virtua Fighter
>Worldwide Soccer: Sega International Victory Goal Edition
Top 3 highest US $ sales Saturn games:
>Madden NFL 97 - late 1996
>Nights Into Dreams - late 1996
>Virtua Fighter 2 - late 1995
Big mystery

>>10342535
Big mystery why the Saturn died then

>>10342508
>muh japanese
idk but the Saturn Fan mags i've been reading through seem to have been obsessed with VF for like, the first 6 months of the console. every issue in that time has a large section on VF strategies and speculation on a VF2 port.
maybe you don't give a shit about VF and maybe people in the west didn't give a shit about VF, but clearly many people in the only market where the saturn sold ok did.
dunno why VF makes some people on this board so butthurt.

>>10337630
i have come to believe that the mega CD is cursed.

>1996
>best friend comes running up to me on boxing day
>i got a Mega CD! Do you want to come round?
>we plan to meet at his house
>im about to cross the road next day and see a bunch of cars outside his house
>other friend comes over, turns out Mega CD kid's dad died of a heart attack
>stop seeing the kid around as much
>years later walking home from work because im not fat like you are
>realise im close to Mega CD kid house
>look up to his old room, there are bright colored lights in the window
>see a pale figure for a split second, then darkness
>his mother died the next day, within a year his sister got attacked by hedgehogs

>>10343117
>dunno why VF makes some people on this board so butthurt.
Tekken / snoy fags.

>>10343910
seethe

>>10333045
Based.

>>10337670
>318 vs 445
yeah not sure how Nintendo won that one