/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10309415
I never really got into battle network myself, but they're fine from what I've played. I had a few friends who were disgusted at the change, because they just didn't like RPG or strategy games in general, so, that kind of struck a nerve for them. Then I had a friend like you, we both played a lot of mega man, mostly mega man and bass and megaman 8 until he won a GBA sp in a magazine contest(i thought they were all scams), then he was all over zero like I've never seen, then again for battle network. He lost his mind in battle network.

i dont know man,i can't argue about this shit much more tonight. i was a teenager at the time of release, i thought it was fun, but i didn't watch the anime and thought the anime was sort of for smaller children. the games i could only go as far as MM2 but found that they went all the way to starforce. i have not been convinced to buy into the remasters

Look boring to be honest.

>>10309427
Think final fantasy tactics meets megaman in the movie tron. That's basically it

>>10309427
i can understand this. most of the time you are running from location to location. if you didn't pay enough attention to what someone said it's very easy to get distracted and lose your way. lots of backtracking. the combat boils down to preparation and executing chips at the right time in the right order. if that type of gameplay does not sound fun trust me nothing is going to make it fun. i sort of like the zero to ninety mph approach with the battle system then again i'm a fan of card games in general.

>>10309415
I like both, but most mega man games are platformers while MMBN is a card action jrpg.
It isn't too surprising that there is less fan overlap with the differing genres, especially given that classic MM fans were 10-20 years older than the target audience for MMBN.

>>10309415
Starforce is more the black sheep to be honest.

It's a different genre altogether.
Also, 80's kids were kind of fucking insufferable around that era. Anything that wasn't specifically the thing they grew up with was just "shit" and that was that. The "only 8-bit Megaman is good" mentality was very prevalent around that era, which wasn't true then, and isn't true now.

>>10309516
yeah that mario crowd is real tough too huh

>>10309415
Real fans like both. They're fantastic games and were a very original concept. The only people who don't like them are retards who can't read.

>>10309532
There were legitimately people who were mad about games like Paper Mario and Mario Sunshine though. It's the 80's generation in particular who are very weird about this stuff. They get married to the idea of a particular thing, and then it just isn't allowed to change, or it's a "betrayal".
There were people who hated all of those 00's iterations of cartoons like TMNT, despite those being better on the whole.
People laugh at Andrew Dobson, but he's not really that unique.

>>10309415
it's pretty much only megaman in name only. You can reskin the whole thing with 2hu or something and nothing would change

>>10309576
You could say the same of like FF Tactics though. It's very deliberately a spin-off series that's supposed to present a different take on the material.
If they weren't still making sidescrollers at that point, that'd be one thing, but that's what Zero was for.

>>10309415
>Black sheep
Anon, BN series at its peak was more popular than the mainline Mega Man. They got the game released every year the anime running for 5 seasons and a shiton of toys and merchandise

>>10309586
FF as a series in general was always prone to experimentation so there were already divided camps. For example ff7 is only vaguely similar to FF1. Hell you can hardly even identify what makes something FF beyond some naming schemes and something appearing to be turn based combat. Megaman was much tighter in this regard with the only real shakeup being Legends as it takes on 3d. BN is just a completely different kind of game, vastly more distinct from what megaman had been. Way more than the jump from FF to tactics imo

>>10309598
Final fantasy wasn't even final fantasy when it was final fantasy. Ff legends is saga and ff adventures is seiken densetsu. Then ff2 is actually ff4 and you know what I'm saying. then what the fuck is final fantasy crystal chronicles? people say Zelda has a fucked up timeline, well,..
it does, but so does final fucking fantasy

>>10309605
I thought Final Fantasy pretty much explicitly didn't have a timeline, but I'm not a major FF fan.

>>10309415
it had nothing to do with the any other megaman game, if anything it was very lucky to have caught on
Starforce had far more in common with battle network than this game had in common with megaman, but it didn't get quite as lucky

>>10309557
>There were people who hated all of those 00's iterations of cartoons like TMNT, despite those being better on the whole.

There's some sense in that though. Restarting a canon or whatever is usually just a stupid, bad, lazy, cynical thing to do. It's generally about tricking the audience into paying attention to the new thing, or about manipulating some broke artist into taking a stab at conquering a new medium (while the entity providing funding tries to water down the artwork in order to maximize future merchandise sales), not about making something good. People who dislike it by default are right to do so.

But yeah, a person should still be capable of setting that aside and appreciating a new version of a story as if it were the first version, even if that takes a small effort. Especially since it's not like TMNT began as the 1987 TV series in the first place... The first version of a story YOU encounter is the fundamental canon as far as your emotions will probably ever be able to tell.

>>10309605
that's sort of the point. Final fantasy was always all over the place, the stories/settings largely don't connect, the gameplay often undergoes significant changes, etc. Every FF game you're getting a box of stuff that could be anything with vague similarities to other stuff with the same name. You sort of expect that as a fan once you become familiar with it. Megaman was different case. It was largely the same/similar thing even if each sub-series had its own distinct twist until BN did something radically different

>>10309616
Zelda wasn't supposed to either til the fans went rabid and Nintendo realized they could cash in on that shit. Never underestimate the lower of autism

>>10309650
aside from the first two games being connected, and lttp being a prequel to them with la being a sequel to that, and mm being a sequel to oot, and ww and tp explictly being split based off the timelines in oot's ending, yeah there was never a timeline. it was just made up for no reason whatsoever.

>>10309656
oh yeah and minish cap being the origin of the series, never a timeline clearly. it was all made up. this story was created in our labs.

>>10309650
Zelda has always had a loose sense of plot connectivity between games. The keyword there being loose. You play Ocarina of Time, and it's very clear that you're witnessing the origin story of Ganondorf from the other games, for example.
It just doesn't really matter that much, because each game is supposed to be taken as it's own entity first.

>>10309659
You don't even know what you're talking about. There was no timeline until the fans got antsy in the early 2000s and pestered miyamoto and he cashed in on it, look at you totally eating it up like a good nintendrone should. This is common knowledge it's even documented in avgns Zelda timeline video from 14 years ago, before the official timeline was even released.

>>10309557
>There were people who hated all of those 00's iterations of cartoons like TMNT, despite those being better on the whole.
The 00s was garbage, 80s and 90s was good.

00s TMNT was just shit, the original TMNT cartoon is kiddy and campy, and the original TMNT comics are dark and gritty. Who the fuck wants the "in between" version of the 00s? Also, peak TMNT was the first 90s movie, nothing was ever better than that.

>>10309429
>>10309431
Well I don't hate it. It has great character design.

>>10309667
there was no timeline except for when the games were connected, yup none at all. just admit you don't play the games dude it's fine. no one actually thinks it's this big deal that except for the retards who can't see basic minor connections.

>>10309672
Those 80's cartoons are straight up unwatchable trash.
Go and sit down, and watch an actual episode of Transformers. And then watch a season of it. You wont be able to.

>>10309674
>It has great character design.
It sure does... >>10309448

>>10309695
Absolutely.

>>10309678
I've watched it all many times, and I was born in 89, so it was somewhat outdated even when I was a kid. The original animated TF movie is still the single best thing, better than EVERY live action dogshit movie. And Beast Wars is still objectively the best cartoon series, and the G1 series has plenty of charm despite the sometimes shitty animation, it's way more entertaining than the also poorly animated shonenshit 00s TF anime.

00s is mostly soulless, the 00s had a couple decent cartoons like Justice League but not anything that rivaled the best of the 90s like Batman TAS, and something like the 03 turtles was just the definition of mid, "oh its sooooo dark!" no it's not, this is dark. I'll take the lighthearted TMNT, the dark comics TMNT, or the actual perfect in between, the original 90s movie. 03 turtles is just not special at all and is middle of the road generic.

>>10309415
I like Mega Man and RPGs
I do not like unnecessary human characters and shitty robot master redesigns where almost everyone looks like a lanky faggot in spandex.

It would have been much better if they tried to make a proper classic Mega Man RPG in earnest rather than just vaguely reference it as a base to make this new kiddy thing that was clearly trying to ape Pokemon and other similar kid oriented monster taming franchises of the time.

They were clearly going for the zoomer audience rather than the old fans, and to their credit, it worked well, but I ain't no zoomer and I do not like it. At least Command Mission got the Mega Man RPG thing right with X.

>>10309728
The art style of BN is like Tronified Megaman. I like it.

>>10309415
I played X on my cousins PS2 and didnt enjoy it at all. years later I tried BN 3 Blue and loved the fuck outta it, the anime and everything else related to it. shame they killed it off for Star force.

Star Force was better.
For one, it does its own thing for the character designs instead of desecrating old ones. The fact that the human character is the one doing the fighting by fusing with the alien gives it a cool sentai flare and instantly makes me care about him more than the useless navi ops just plugging cables and pushing buttons. Anime was pretty good too.

I think they took some questionable decisions with both the 2nd game and the anime season based on it, people were probably tired of the formula by that point too, which is a shame because it looks like they went back on track with 3 and 4 would have been much better.

i played so much battle network when i was in high school bros and i was worried it wasn't going to hold up when it got re-released on steam but it was still fun, i had a blast playing 2 and 3 again, i'm still messing around on 3 these days to try out different folders. F is my favourite so far for pve, and P for pvp

>>10309415
An actual Megaman RPG would have been fine. The pseudo kid using a computer setting ruined it.
I don't understand why Nintendo didn't make more rpgs with different IP instead of rehashing Mario.

>>10309415
Because it was literally a reboot aimed at a different, younger audiance. The audiance that liked classic/X/Legends was basically told
>GTFO now, we don't want you anymore, we want the new kids who weren't even born when Mega Man originally was

So it's understandable they wouldn't feel good about it, isn't it?

Look at it that way: a while back I used to lurk around the Mega Man general on /mmg/. They were all over these games and it was obvious they were super young and most of them didn't care about the franchises prior to BN. It's basically like the pokémon general and kids who only care about gen 5 onwards and call the ones before boomer garbage.

For the record I am from the older generation and do enjoy all and every MM series, but BN being RPGs with stories involving pre-teens was always a little embarassing.

>>10309824
The whole cyberspace gimmick is half of what's cool about Battle Network, and they literally made an "actual Megaman RPG" when they made Command Mission.

The Megaman Classic series also has really shallow, two dimensional worldbuilding, and probably wouldn't be a great fit for an RPG.

>I don't understand why Nintendo didn't make more rpgs with different IP instead of rehashing Mario.
They also have done that, and continue to do that. Xenoblade and Fire Emblem are currently their flagship RPG franchises, after they experimented a little with Golden Sun on the GBA.

>>10309892
>GTFO now, we don't want you anymore
Yeah, except no, because they were concurrently developing Zero which is the most "grown up" Megaman, and probably the first series to really approach the lore and storytelling of the Megaman universe in a serious manner.
I don't understand what would have been good enough for you people.

10309415

>>10309415
>12th birthday coming up
>ask mom for a Megaman game
>get hyped for an awesome platforming experience
>open present
>Megaman Battle Network 3: Blue Version
>wtf is this shit
>disappointed
>give it a chance anyway
>play nonstop until the battery dies
>get Megaman Zero 3 for Christmas
>go through the same process of unexpected Megaman spinoff kino twice in one year
I fucking love Megaman bros

>>10310071
That's because you have bad taste and are impressed easily by a lame mascot character you've interpreted as "cool"

>>10310074
K

>>10309415
It's just a shitty version of Pokemon

>>10310171
It's better than Pokemon.
Gamefreak can just barely put a video game together.

Because it's boring no skill gridwaggle

>>10309425
Did you just use an AI to make one of the countertop guy/handwriting guy's pic related? Masterful post, Anon.

>>10310074
My least favorite thing about the BN series is that you are forced to play as mega instead of making your own navi

>>10310273
megaman bn 4.5 lets you play as other navis, same with battle chip challenge but they played very differently from the main bn games. and yeah i would've loved to make my own navi

>>10310267
Yes.

>>10310267
>Masterful post
You mean lazy ai slop from an ass blasted poorfag? I'm convinced your same fagging and shitting up the board with ai bullshit ya fucking nigger.

>>10310465
I don't get the impression he was negging the handwriting anon.

>>10310472
Are fucking retarded? He's impersonating somebody else using AI goyslop and spamming it in multiple threads. Shitting up the board worse than it usually is. Why go out of your way to make multiple ai images and impersonate somebody you don't like, when it just makes you look like a fucking crazy person? Why would you condone or do that?

>>10310461
Hisssss
The buyfag is here HISSS

I shall always emulate

>>10309415
Was it? I don't ever remember seeing much negativity about the series

>>10309415
It wasn't. It was one the better selling franchises, in fact. It was just that most of the popularity came from the younger generation and from Japan. Legends was the real black sheep.

>>10310479
i own plenty of games too i just like to have a good time check out my PEE PEE POO POO i even brought out megaman 8 for the MM thread, baby!

>>10310871
>>10310461
That guy had been doing those photos for a good 2 years and NOBODY was falling for giving him any attention.

But of course (You) couldn't help it. Epic troll FTW!!!!

>>10310843
Not only this, but didn't the new collection sell out so much it was hard to find at launch?

>>10309597
Black sheep to Americans.

>>10309667
There was indeed a timeline, it just wasn't important. It's true that, when they're making the games, they don't give a shit about timeline placement. The actual story in the games is typically written after the mechanics and dungeons have already been created.

Zelda II happens a few years after Zelda 1,
LttP is suppose to take place during the Golden Era talked about in the manual for Zelda II.
OoT is suppose to be the Imprisoning War mentioned in the demo roll in LttP
Majora's Mask takes place right after OoT
This shit is literally stated in the instruction manuals to each of the games.

It was only after Twilight Princess that people got autistic about the time, because both it and Wind Waker say they take place 100 years after OoT.

>>10309892
>GTFO now, we don't want you anymore, we want the new kids who weren't even born when Mega Man originally was

You mean the same era when they made the Classic Megaman Collection for every console? And the Megaman Zero series, which was a continuation of X and incredibly hard compared to BN? And X7, X8, and Command Mission?

Yep, they sure did completely abandon everything that came before it.

>>10311119
A lot of classic fans didn't like X, and a lot of X fans didn't like Zero.

To this day classic fags will bitch about X being too 90s edgy and serious and overdesigned with the characters, and I don't see it as much now but years ago I remember more MMX fans being turned off of Zero just because the aesthetic was more cutesy and feminine

>>10309415
>Black Sheep
>games actually sold shit
If it's a black sleep, that's a pretty favored one.

>>10309906
>which is the most "grown up" Megaman
It's puerile compared to X's themes.

>>10309429
>final fantasy tactics meets megaman in the movie tron
Imagine having a single brain cell than your average anipoke pokemonfag.

>>10311425
MMX is just X-Men but robots instead of mutants, it ain't that deep bro.

>>10309557
another reason why Gen X-er are no different than zoomz (who desperate try to mimic their garbage)

>>10311053
That's where the games mostly sold too, despite some cucked releases.
>4.5 not in the collection
One job Crapcock

>>10311432
It's a literal apocalypse scenario that lasts a century.
Meanwhile MMZ has literal digital fairies and this super edgy final boss robot who's actually Zero's original body who kills a million trillion people in a random war. Even Legends has better writing than that shit.

>>10311434
Not everything is good just because you grew up with it. The original Star Wars trilogy is a little overrated, but it is cool enough all things considered, being a nerdy childrens fairy tale in space. The Star Wars prequels are just bad films until the third act of the third movie, and the only reason people say they're good is nostalgia or contrarianism to fight against older people

Same deal when you see people shit on Burton Batman and put Schumacher on a pedestal, zoomers have this contrarian need that isn't rooted in actually thinking certain things are of great quality, but just "well YOU like things from your childhood so MINE ARE BETTER", they don't understand there are many things older people are nostalgic about that aren't good as well, and they can't make that distinction, because the late 90s and early 00s that they romanticize was truly a cultural low point for a lot of art

>>10311457
>Star Wars prequels are just bad films until the third act of the third movie
Phantom Menace has the best fight scene in the whole franchise though.

>>10311450
Yeah, like x-men meeta Zelda.

>>10311425
X themes is just boring mecha anime plot with 4 having the only good thematic
Zero is basically Casshern (but for real this time) and Pluto but Mega Man
We don't speak of whatever the hell they tried with ZX, because BN did the core idea better.

>>10309415
Probably already said in the thread.
Legends is the dark horse
Mega Man is well loved because it's a fun blend of platforming and run n gun.
Battle Network is a JRPG with some real time and card game mechanics. It's fun but not what people expect or necessarily want out of a Mega Man game. Still not a dark horse, people liked them enough to make 6 games(or 8-9 depending how you look at it) and had a spiritual successor.
It didn't naturally appeal to Mega Man fans, I think it was more for Pokémon fans without trying to be an exact copy.

>>10311504
>it's Pokemon because he has le trading and kid anime

>>10311450
You're overselling X as "apocalyptic" while underselling Zero has moe edge despite having the most hefty tones the series could have offered.


also Legends appeals to ironic weeaboos who don't actually play the games and drag on about theories and waifu wars, like FF7 and Ocarina of Time fans do.

>>10309415
Autism
And the first game was pretty bad, you should draw a map if you want to play it

This thread made me decide to take a look.... I did a bit of reading and apparently fans regard 3 as the pinnacle of the series. So I picked up a rom to try it out, and honestly I like it.
I'd never, EVER be caught by anyone playing this with this embarrassingly babyish plot/characters, but the underlying mechanics/gameplay are fun. I dig it, I can see the appeal. No wonder Jap kids ate this shit up.

>>10311529
>You're overselling X as "apocalyptic"
Continuous insurgences across the glone, a virus outbreak that mutates so fast it can't be contained in any way besides killing the infected off, a full-blown formal war that escalates to orbital superweapons, a giant space colony crashing into Earth and making most of it uninhabitable, scientists performing illegal necromancy and creating an worldwide emergency with mind-controlling parasites that only they can fix, the supposed good faction becoming increasingly paranoid, authoritatian and powerless, the main villain's corpse and DNA being used as tools for the next evolution of AI, and the fabric of reality breaking down and melding with cyberspace at one point is not a plot I'd have to oversell.

>>10311571
X1
>Sigma and his army are out to take over the world!
X2
>While the Maverick Hunters clean up the remnants of Sigma's army, a trio of evil robots want to destroy X!
X3
>While Dr. Doppler seemed to be inventing a cure to the Maverick Virus, he was actually using his fake cure to cause a new Maverick Outbreak!
X4
>Repliforce wants to make a nation for Reploids, but a sudden attack makes it seem like they've all gone MAVERICK
X5 (the actually gritty one)
>In the (proposed) series finale, Sigma runs wild as a virus, nearly drives humanity to extinction in his ulitmate gambit, reawakens Zero's original programming, and almost wins!
X6 (the other actually gritty one)
>With Zero dead, X has to fight a mysterious entity called ZERO NIGHTMARE, who's basically doing what Sigma did the last five time
X7
>X gets tired of fighting a leaves, leaving Zero and new-hire Axel to fight more a vigilante group that only exists because X retired in the first place
X8
>Space elevators

>>10311572

>>10311532
ok?

>>10311820
>Sigma and his army are out to take over the world!
Fun and games, right?

>>10311856
X2 literally undermines this by letting you just rebuild Zero. That's why newer Classic Megaman games make a big deal out of the IC Chips: when you can literally just rebuilt a robot, it doesn't really matter if they blew up to save the day. You can always just build a new one.

>>10311867
where is he then
bring him back :(

>>10311867
It wasn't just Zero who died though, and I don't mean Green Biker Dude either.

>>10309892
>GTFO now, we don't want you anymore, we want the new kids who weren't even born when Mega Man originally was
That's hilarious considering how much X and Legends dick Battle Network sucks on top of co-shilling the Zero series each release prior and being an alt timeline to the Classic series itself.
Battle Network was pretty much carrying the franchise at the time until the devs got fucking tired and moved to Star Force with a fresher team.

>>10309892
I honestly cringe each time someone makes a Pokemon comparison to Battle Network or the Mega Man franchise itself, because there's always a fucking retarded take behind it.
and no, i don't care a few freelancers work on the stupid new games now.

>>10309824
You didn't like Command Mission?

>>10310273
play Sonic Battle :^)

>>10311856
The dialogue was referring to Zero
Bitch jist came back like it's nothing.

>>10309630
people were (correctly) naming it for what it was back then. People would get butthurt about windwaker, paper mario, and games getting dumber and easier, but they needed to capture new, young audiences. The 2000s especially were a dead time for manchildren. There weren't nostalgia machines churning out shite for aging millenials like today. ironically, that's probably when boomer nostalgia peaked with golden age comics, baseball cards, muscle cars, and muh WWII parents all on full display.

>>10312386
Mario Sunshine is like the hardest Mario game.
Paper Mario is also pretty much perfectly balanced for the difficulty of a Mario RPG. They're supposed to be focused on being a fun ride. Not some autistic grindfest.

>>10311425
Megaman X is like a saturday morning cartoon where the same bad guy comes back every week, and there are characters with names like "Chill Penguin".
The storylines of the Playstation games are also stock shonen shit about X learning to "grow up".
There are implications of interesting things in the background of Megaman X, but it's all utterly glossed over and wasted.

>>10311457
The thing is, this isn't a question of whether or not you like the prequels. This is about being that one guy who says "Star Wars is about Luke, and I don't care about that other shit!".
Okay, you don't like Kyle Katarn then. And you don't like KotoR. And you don't like the Battlefront games. And you don't like the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars series.

>>10312205
I love how the new characters all fit into a traditional rpg class
Spider
>gambler
Massimo
>tank
Marino
>thief
Cinnamon
>healer
Even the Hunters fit a niche
X
>mage
Zero
>fighter
Axl
>summoner
Very comfy playthrough for jarpig-loving X-fags
t. jarpig-loving X-fag

>>10309824
>Nintendo didn't make more rpgs with different IP
Imagine an action RPG with Captain Falcon beating up people and looking for vehicle parts for the racing segments. It could have been the best F-Zero game ever made.

Mega Man and Mega Man X: Classic, iconic, incredibly fun platformers

Mega Man Battle Network: childish, boring, second-rate RPGs

It's simple, I'm not surprised zoomers love it

>>10312909
BN is definitely no more childish than classic or X. Especially not classic. You have strange hazy memories of what those games were.
BN is pretty much just a retooled version of classic. They're both ultimately about a kid, who has a heroic alter ego.

>>10311417
>more MMX fans being turned off of Zero just because the aesthetic was more cutesy and feminine
vr is so fucking stupid

>>10309708
Will he ever come back...

>>10313119
It's not /vr/, more of shonentards and fujoshits seething over nothing.

>>10312909
>childish, boring, second-rate
But enough about Wish Upon A Star

Megaman proves that sometimes a company just needs to make some money.

>>10313159
>makes the protagonist a diapershota
WHAT WERE THEY THINKING

>>10313416
wearing a croptop no less lmao

>>10313159
He literally looks cooler in that series. He has tits in his original design. The robots in the Zero series have sleek lightweight designs, which is kind of what you would expect a sophisticated combat robot to look like, a thousand or so years after the original Megaman games.

>>10313159
my only problem with the design is his eyes, that art looks pretty solid with the old eyes

>>10309415
The true black sheep is ZX

>>10309557
I at least kinda get the dislike for Sunshine. It's a fun game with cool ideas but at the same time, it's got a lot of what I would consider bad segments.
People who hate PM however are sociopaths.