/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10274757
I don't hate it but Gunstar Heroes seems to be way too overrated.

Its an alright game but to me it doesn't play nearly as good as what many seem to imply. The bosses are too spongey. The levels are also kind of lame in my eyes. Contra is much better. Same with Metal Slug.

>>10274757
i don't hate it but is way too overrated
people always go on and on about how good the story is but it's really average snd Zero is more of a piece of cardboard than in the X games even thought he's the protagonist now
Ciel is annoyingly useless and Elpizo is one of the worst villains since Gate from X6
also the first game is pretty bad, i really enjoyed the third game tho
in the end i think this game suffer of being the first MM game for a lot of GBA kiddies who grew up playing this and Battle Network (the better one of the two imo)

>>10274757
Secret of Mana.
I know I'm not alone on this one, but it's just mechanically fucky. The camera scrolling sucks, the partner ai blows, pausing the game just to cast a spell in an action rpg kinda sucks, and most importantly the hitstun ultimately gets me combo'd into oblivion. It's a shame, because I really wanted to like it, since I love the artstyle and music, especially the super chaotic boss theme. It's not a game I hate, but definitely one I don't care for. With that said, I enjoy watching other people play it a lot.
Most of the N64 library also falls under this category. I just really don't like the blurry textures and the awkward controller, but I can still appreciate the games

Mother 1/2, Pokemon, and FF1. The exploration, talking to NPCs and immersing yourself in the game's world was fun(mainly the former 2), but I got sick of the repetitive combat.

This the insecure faggots who desperately need approval cause they don't have a personality thread?

FF7 because it feels like a fever dream where the devs couldn't actually decide on what the gameplay should actually be, so they just chucked a bunch of minigames at you instead.

The Midgar intro is pretty nice, you basically do a shadowrun on a corporate facility, all while dealing with JRPG random battles. I went into the game wanting and expecting the whole game to be like this, grindy JRPG battles with a few gimmicks here and there. The motorcycle escape was a nice twist, but everything went downhill from there.

I get to the next town and there's immediate tonal whiplash when I'm in a place that mostly looks like it should be from Dragon Quest. That wasn't enough to get me to quit, but it was definitely jarring, I was liking the industrial vibe of the last place, and the "corporation ruining the planet" stuff primed me to expect most of the game to have these vibes.

Anyway, you go to the mansion and have the exposition and flashbacks, with all of the scenes where Sephiroth kills everything for you. That's okay, I guess, he's God, cool. Then you get to the part where you have to tame the chocobo. I don't remember waht the hell you had to do here, but I remember it being a more tedious and shitty version of pokemon. Hated that shit.

I guess there was some normal game after that, you fight through a cave and then a shipyard, and then you make your way towards Gold Saucer. It was at this point that the game really made me want to kill myself. The "you're falling down the roller surprise minigame" was bad enough (especially since it seems like you can't go back up to repeat it), but then you get to the saucer itself.

The games are all gay and stupid, especially the chocobo racing that didn't make any sense. Cait Sith forcing his way into your party was the dumbest plot point I'd ever seen; looking up spoilers and finding out that he was an enemy spy just made it even worse.

The icing on the cake was the fact that you needed to pay money to save there. Fuck that

>>10275450
only since you arrived

To my surprise that thing managed to gain a kind of cult over the years. Even back in 1997 for some weird joke it was received well and liked by many.
But for me, it was an obvious downturn from what NfS1 had managed to bring up to the genre.

Sure, 3dfx stuff in the SE edition was nice but MotoRacer still looked better and, more importantly, played WAY better.

>>10275487
I played it for the first time a couple of months ago and I thought it was fine. Not a masterpiece or anything like that but I had fun

Both Castlevania and Megaman were janky as fuck until the 16 bit era. Seriously, what is up with these shitty-ass stairs?

>>10274757
Protipp: There's a mod for mouse-play on the pc for emu, try it, it's great.
As i heard from devs they did indeed develop it for mouse-usage but that was eventually dropped.

For me it's this one. Also OOT.
3d platforming sucks and 1st gen 3d is awful today.
Back in the days i've grown out of consoles and was at pc gaming.
Couldn't compete with Fallout or Quake2.

Yoshi's Island. Didn't care for the egg-throwing gameplay, and having a crying baby every time you get touched is beyond annoying. After SMB3 and SMW, I wanted a game that merged the best of both. The power-ups of SMB3, the hidden exits and re-playable levels of SMW, the tons of levels of SMB3 and the long levels of SMW. Instead I got a gimmick-fest tech demo to show off the SuperFX2. It's not a terrible game, but not at all what I wanted. After that Mario went 3D and I lost all hope of getting the SMB/SMW game I wanted.

It was the only good one in the whole series. But it was really good.

>>10275607
This, tried to play it twice in early 00s and it wasn't really that interesting.

As for Zelda, it's one of those franchises to which I can't get hooked up, no matter what games I try. Except first one, it's awesome.

>>10275450
>you have to like what i like
You're a child.

>>10275454
Both the chocobo taming and the mini-games are optional so that's not really a good criticism is it. As for tonal whiplash, all FF games mix of fantasy with sci-fi, that's kind of the FF thing. You can't really complain about something that was always the selling point of those games, that's why people like them really
Cait Sith is gay though

>>10275808
>Except first one, it's awesome
Then you'll like the other open world ones. Wind Waker and BotW/ToTK. Other Zelda games are more linear and cinematic, I don't like that either, I think it adds little to the game while removing the sense of adventure that the first game had and WW brought back. Even Link to the Past goes into a more railroady cinematic direction compared to game 1. Nobody seems to complain about that but it always bothered me

>>10275450
That would be a popular opinion thread.

>>10275607
Mario 64 is nothing like Fallout or Quake 2.

>>10275923
It really wasn't until 7 that it started being "sci-fi" though, the games before that were much more "fantasy".

besides the great tech for the time, it's a pretty meh fps with most guns feeling like pea shooters and a unfinished story
the original aged a lot better

>>10276146
Nta but you're fucking retarded. Even ff1 has mech bosses and ff6 literally starts out with you in a fucking mech. You're really just digging yourself a hole here.

>>10275454
>FF7 because it feels like a fever dream where the devs couldn't actually decide on what the gameplay should actually be, so they just chucked a bunch of minigames at you instead.
Was FF7 your first Final Fantasy?
The main gameplay loops of Final Fantasy VII are pretty solidly the exact same loops that existed in the previous games. FF6 also had minigames, although substantially more limited than 7. I think it's very likely the motive for all the minigames was dick measuring with Nintendo. Sony wanted to be able to advertise FF7 as a dozen games in one, let's see N64 pull that off, etc.
>tonal whiplash
This is just your expectations being fucked. If you actually think about it, it doesn't make sense for the entire world to be like Midgar and never did. Plus I think people use this term way too often without understanding what it really means. Tone is very effectively managed in FF7 throughout and there's always reasonable transitions between starkly phases of the game. The midgar section ends on a huge climax and escape sequence. It's only natural that events will slow down at this point. In a play that would have been end of ACT I.
>>10275923
>all FF games mix of fantasy with sci-fi, that's kind of the FF thing.
Yes but it's also true that there aren't really any other prior FF games that take so long to reach the overworld. Square (and Sony) really wanted to frontload the pre-rendered backgrounds and elaborately scripted, FMV-enhanced cutscenes.

>>10276146
>>10276153
FF always had lots of sci-fi.
The main difference with FF7 is that it's modern (for 1990s) setting, with cars and televisions and cell phones and so on. Prior Final Fantasy games were always some kind of pre-modern setting (usually quasi-medieval, though FF6 was sort of industrial/steampunk).

>>10276153
How am I digging a hole it's literally my first comment lol. If I heard a joke in a horror movie I don't go " oh it's a comedy now" , don't be a fool.

>>10276106
It wasn't meant as a comparison, but time.
i wanted to say in 1997 there were better games to play

>>10276150
Yeah I don't think that's even contrarian anymore, most people agree that HL2 was too gimmicky. Very impressive tech at the time but kind of a weird game, a lot like Doom 3.

This isn't a good racing game. My explanation is: try playing it, Sega Rally is a good game, this controls like shit

>>10274757
Monkey Island, it's not funny outside of the swordfighting. It started this awful trend of adventure games treating themselves far too silly. None of the puzzles are all that special either.

>>10274757
I never liked collectathons like Banjo-Kazooie or DK64. Even Mario 64 was pushing it with the star collection. I’d rather beat bosses to advance in levels than scratch my head wondering which rock the final piece is of the puzzle is under.

>>10275454
FF7 is one of my all time favorite games but I agree that the Kalm flashback scene was infuriating and a low point in the game. In re-run throughs I find myself wishing that I could just skip it entirely.

And yes, Cait Sith is gay and I ALWAYS shelve him and never play as him except for that brief moment where the game makes you. I pretend he doesn’t exist and the game mostly goes on as normal

>>10274757
is the super nintendo version of shadowrun a highly praised game?
ive never met anyone who owned or played it
its also, iirc, a shitty P&C instead of a kinda cool pseudo-CRPG for consoles
i think youre thinking of the genny version
not unanimously praised either, but certainly much more than the shitty SNES verison

>>10276150
>>10276351
its funny that the ACTUAL tech demo, portal, seems to be the one that gets more fondly remembered nowadays en lieu of the AAA blockbuster that was HL2 on release

portal was certainly much more unique of a game, so theres that

>>10275620
SMW is the last real Mario game.

>>10274757
>FIFA International Soccer
>FIFA Soccer 95
>FIFA Soccer 96
>FIFA Soccer 97: Gold Edition
>FIFA 98: Road to World Cup
It's not because I dislike sports video games, if it was then I'd include all of them, I'm going for this specific one because I do love football and video games based on it, mostly Konami ones... but I do enjoy later FIFA titles, the series really picked up after FIFA 98 and especially FIFA 08, but that's no longer retro... anyways, I often heard about how praised FIFA on Genesis was, the early titles, all the way up until the FIFA 98 port, so 5 titles, with SNES ports too... and they're a pain to play... I'm aware that most football video games from that era weren't good, but here I can barely string any passes together and make proper plays, it's such an ugly match of football every time, all the CPU does is attempt shooting from outside the box, which seems to be the best strategy, but this is hoofball at its ugliest and least fun, players feel too heavy and too light at the same time, and passing's awful, the controls don't feel good at all, all if had going for it was the isometric view, which I don't even find that appealing. TECMO World Cup's still my favorite football video game from that era and this doesn't even come close to it, at least for me, I'd rather play World Cup Italia '90 on Genesis, or even the Master System version, it's a lot more fun and I make more proper plays because controls feel better to me.

>>10275607
this. I wouldn't say it's bad, it's a fine game, I'm actually 100%'ing it right now, but it is not great. it has a lot of that early 3d energy where they weren't held back anymore by what consoles could do so instead of being forced to make a video game they instead did whatever they wanted and made some midwit shit. running into chests in the right order (trial and error, no acrobatics, just fucking ram your head into them until you get it right), the same throw-the-enemy "fight" 50 times, use the blue/green cap to walk to a star, walk across a really thin bridge, wait for the moving platforms, etc... but there's enough that's good, for example the acrobatics sections, exploration, sliding races, wing cap, even the cannons.

they gimmick'd up the next 3d installments enough that I never cared for them either, but finally had a harmless enough gimmick in Odyssey and I'd say that game very solidly beats 64 in every way.

>>10276481
>In re-run throughs I find myself wishing that I could just skip it entirely.
Well yeah, it's a lengthy exposition delving into Cloud's memories and setting up the rest of the game. Up until that point, Barret's conflict with Shinra drove the main plot. After Kalm, Cloud is the one making decisions. Most first-time players enjoy spending a bit of time getting to know Cloud's past at this point (5-7 hours into the game, typically). But on subsequent plays, it's like 30-45 minutes of nonstop cutscenes you've already seen before. It's common to get impatient.

>>10276746
I haven't played the Genesis version. The SNES version got rave reviews at the time and retrospectively too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun_(1993_video_game)#Reception

Both of the NES Contra games are shoddy, cut-back ports. Uglier graphics, far less action on the screen, less enemy variety, whiny beepy music. I cannot understand whatsoever why so many insist that they're good, much less better than the arcade versions, which are actually excellent.

>>10277028
Also the flicker is insufferable, par for the course for an NES game.

>>10276945
I don’t disagree but I also think all those points could have been made in 5-10 minutes of dedicated cut scenes rather than 30-45 minutes of half-playing. Like how the Mideel cut scene was handled, just large enough to feel like a comfy break from the action rather than a dragged out affair that spoils the game for many players

>>10277028
>far less action on the screen
You need to stop doing it.
You can have valid opinions and not spout lies. The moment you lie, the moment everyone thinks you're a retard, which is a stupid thing when your opinion is valid.

>>10274757
>The hacking sections are pointless and can be beaten just by walking forwards and mashing a button at every step
You mean you have to play them to beat them? Crazy. I heard you can beat Mario just by walking forwards and jumping.
>The combat is awkward with a controller
It's playable and makes it more tense. All you do is move the reticle to the enemy anyway, it kind of sticks to the target when you reach it.
>The game forces you to grind at a couple spots.
Feels good when you figure it out.
>Yet somehow this game won awards on release and is still pretty universally praised.
Must be because of the dozen good things about the game to counter balance your three nitpicks.

>>10275923
>Both the chocobo taming and the mini-games are optional
Don't you need to tame at least one chocobo to cross some hazardous terrain?
>all FF games mix of fantasy with sci-fi, that's kind of the FF thing.
They could have done a better job of it. I get that the town immediately following Midgar was supposed to be "fantasy town that's dependent on Shinra," but it didn't feel like it. It's like you're watching Blade Runner, but then suddenly everything turns into Adventure Time (kind of a bad example, admittedly) and you're supposed to go along with it.
>>10276167
Slowing down is fine, and going from Midgar to that-place-I-don't-feel-like-googling wasn't even a deal breaker, but game was constantly jerking me left and right between gritty anti-corporate sentiments and cutesy JRPG shit. I think it's trying come come across as "charming" (particularly Cait Sith) but it really isn't.

Fuck, I'll get crucified for this opinion on /vr/, but you wanna know a VERY non-/vr/ game that actually juggled those two things very well? Blue Archive, Volume 1 story specifically

>>10274757
Funny, I've been thinking about making a thread on how much i love this game despite its flaws. It's not so much the story i would say, it's the environment and the ways you interact with it.

>>10277527
>Don't you need to tame at least one chocobo to cross some hazardous terrain?
You can just pay at the chocobo farm and skip the whole randomized chocobo encounter bullshit, just use an item to spawn a chocobo. If I remember correctly

>>10275746
did you mean to post a picture of RE1?

ghosts n goblins was a better scrolling game than super mario brothers.

>>10277404
1. I mean you barely have to play the hacking segments. You can beat them literally just by walking forward and blindly mashing a button at every step. Good luck trying that approach on Mario.
2. It's playable but bad. It doesn't really make combat tense, but tedious. Like you said, you usually just move the cursor over the bad guy and fire away until one of you dies. Not very tense or exciting.
3. Grinding never feels good in any game.
>>10277538
Glad you enjoyed it! No offense intended, and my opinion doesn't really mean anything. The atmosphere and overall concept are great. There were definitely some aspects I liked.

Overhyped game that was only exciting at launch because we all thought hiding in the shadows was super novel and cool. It's actually a very basic stealth mechanic and the entire game is pretty basic, mechanically. And it doesn't even attempt to do anything that would elevate it from a stealth game to an imsim so whoever's calling it that is just wrong

>>10277960
>1.
I don't think that's true, you'll fail the hack and get thrown out.
>2.
It's not tedious, it takes seconds, and it's tense because if your reactions are slow you'll lose more HP, and in harder fights you can die. This especially becomes relevant if you want to use spells.
>3.
Killing enemies for 30 minutes and getting powerful by leveling up and buying new equipment is fun and rewarding, and people enjoy doing it.

If you're talking about tedium and grinding then you should be doing your taxes or something, not playing video games. It's not a reflection on the game.
Your big criticisms of the game are that in your opinion one part is too easy, another part is too hard, and the game lets you grind if you desire. Whoop dee doo, fun at parties man. Get a hobby.

>>10277404
>you can beat Mario just by walking forwards
You can't, there are times where running is required

>>10275596
the 8-bit castlevanias suck. master of darkness is also a slog
megaman is better 8-bit

>>10275405
The AI party members constantly dying and the clunky menus drove me nuts, I dropped it pretty early on. A shame because I enjoyed Final Fantasy Adventure before.

>>10274757
I have every single Zelda game I've tried and I've bought all the major releases on each Nintendo console when they came out, thinking "ok this will be the one that I like."
I just assume I have shit taste because everything about the games I would like - the open-world-ish adventure, the non-turnbased combat, the overall aesthetic and fantasy elements - but no I can never get into these games. They just bore me and I feel like I'm not part of the club where everyone "gets" it.

>>10280016
oops, forgot pic. I've tried to play LttP, Link's Awakening, OOT, Majora's Mask, Windwaker, and Twilight Princess.
I just don't get it

>>10277596
Why?

>>10280016
For me I like the exploration but have no idea why anyone likes Zelda dungeons. They're all extremely basic, even the "good" ones are just kind of shit, neither the puzzles nor the combat are challenging at all and they're not enough of a maze for me to get lost in them either. What even is the appeal of those dungeons
That's why WW is my favorite, you just explore 90% of the time and dungeons are mostly short

>>10277028
>far less action on the screen
There's 3 loops to the game, the third is the fastest

>>10281820
>>10280020
1. They are aimed at 10-12 year olds, that's why they are "basic."
2. And you should play the original on NES, both quests. It won't help you understand why people love the 3D games but you might understand how the series got famous in the first place.
The final dungeon in the second quest has 46 rooms, and 16 of those (about 33% of the dungeon) are just traps and wrong ways designed for you to get lost in and drain your resources.

Just don't forget that even the original was made for 10 year olds, too. Just not gay ones.

>>10277028
i like the arcade versions more. they're short but sweet, and 1CCing is pretty doable
the nes versions are just dragged out for no reason

>>10280016
Zelda is a puzzle solver with action game elements. If you are not a big fan of puzzle solving it will probably bore you

>>10274757
I will never understand why people like this game so much, with its half assed new mechanics trying to compete with other stealth games coming out around the same time (hitman, splinter cell), it's shallow story (this time being a direct copy of the first two MG games without any nuance) filled with boring, two dimensional characters (and barely even that sometimes) and general preachiness and patronizing tone. I have no idea how people ate it up and asked for more.

>>10281820
>That's why WW is my favorite, you just explore 90% of the time and dungeons are mostly short
Are there a lot of NPCs to talk to? Kinda get that cozy village vibe?
The cell shaded art style always threw me off but maybe I'll check it out again

>>10274757
I don't care for things like Pokemon and Final Fantasy. It's the turn based gameplay. I know how the fight will go before I go in, and the solution is to backtrack and grind. I don't enjoy being at the mercy of randomness, and I don't like grinding.

>>10274757
DKC is just another platformer, it lacks creatively, inspiration or soul. Literally anyone could make the boring run of the mill levels that have one single linear path to complete them, no real power ups and boring bosses. Its graphics are the only good thing about it.

i don't really like the MMO combat, i think lore is the most overrated part about TES and i find the mentality of "this game is good because i can exploit mechanics" is no different than saying a game is good because of it's mods or using the dev console.

as for my thoughts about the series lore (since morrowind is the only one to actually acknowledge it in any meaningful way) in broad strokes. it's like DnD lore, it's nice that it exists but is ultimately pointless in the advent of UGC because you're ultimately going to mod the games in your own way. and i think that the weird, abstract & alien aspects of the lore try to hard to be different from other fantasy settings but ultimately gets ignored outside of a few mentions inside in-game books.

GTA I guess.
Never got the hype because the way I saw it is my friends never played the series for the story and just fucked around the majority of them playtime. GTA 5 Online solved this problem since this is what people really wanted.

>>10282270
(different person) There are a lot of NPCs and cozy villages. If that's what you're going for, I strongly recommend Super Mario Sunshine as well. Lots of NPCs with charming comments about the world, and you even get to see some of them develop over the course of the episodes.

Zelda: Link to the Past

It's brown, drab, boring, dull, painful to play. It's just lacking a certain spark of vitality and pizazz. The puzzles, switching back and forth between worlds.... ugh

>>10282650
I hate sunshine, even played it with sunburn mod and still can't get over how rushed and incomplete the game felt.
Definitely not up to brand standards. I'll take SM64 or SMG over it every time

Chrono Trigger
Should be mentioned alongside other baby games like all the Lego ones instead of constantly topping top 10 lists.

>>10282634
>i find the mentality of "this game is good because i can exploit mechanics" is no different than saying a game is good because of it's mods or using the dev console.

I mean... yeah? But it's also about exploring the boundaries of the game's engine and doing what the creators never thought possible. It's fun in that way even without using console.

But to me TES is about immersion. If you don't like the lore that's on you, they have a pretty deep backstory that's been building for decades. Morrowind falls short for me because there's no voice acting. Oblivion fixes this and is my favorite. Skyrim felt very forced and scripted overall, whereas oblivion and morrowind you can just wander into any town or area of the map and always find something to do that feels like the consequence of your curiosity/exploration.

>>10282649
Also wanted to add Shenmue.
Never saw the appeal of it and it only ever seems to be lauded for its technical aspects rather than gameplay. I remember watching some mini-retrospective on 1 and 2 and it's maddening how tedious the games are. Shenmue is the quintessential interactive movie game out there.