/vr/ - Retro Games

Once you learn how to handle it the game is quite good. As strange as the physics are, there's still opportunities to use them to your advantage like in previous games and there's some decent level design here (Egg Fleet is the standout for me)

it's not bad and nope, i dont understand the situation.

>>10226968
Sega had a custom engine designed for the game originally but it was only going to be released on GameCube and Xbox. Sony barged in and made some demands that forced Sega to abandon their custom engine and use an off-the-shelf product (that being Criterion Games' RenderWare engine) to rework the game around so it could be compatible with the PS2.

>>10226973
>forced Sega to abandon their custom engine and use an off-the-shelf product (that being Criterion Games' RenderWare engine)
ok, now i know why the game is half-decent. bless sony. and thanks for the explanation, anon-kun.

The real problem with Heroes is that Sega didn't go back and try to improve on their work for Shadow. So Shadow basically feels the same but now the justification that they had to redevelop the game around tech they didn't plan for doesn't hold water, meaning they were just lazy and recycled large chunks of code that needed to be polished.

>>10226973
>Sega had a custom engine designed for the game originally but it was only going to be released on GameCube and Xbox. Sony barged in and made some demands that forced Sega to abandon their custom engine
Wow, that explains a lot. No wonder this was the first 3D Sonic game with proper collision detection.

>>10226959
What situation?

>>10226959
Some of the worst Special Stages ever created, and the only slack I cut it is that playing as Amy's team makes it very easy to get into them again and again.

>>10226984
Crazy that game came out in 2005 for xbox ps2 and gc and 1 year after sonic 06 was out.

>>10227451
It's baffling how bad it is to do something as simple as go left and right. You're going to hold far right on your analog stick and not move an inch but the moment you turn left you catapult at mach10. Same goes for the pinball sections in casino park.
I know it's because of the physics engine, but that isn't an excuse. It just means that the physics engine is shit.

>>10226959
I can't help but feel like this game has the absolute worst of the style of Sonic game that began with Sonic Adventure, having too short a game so they make you constantly redo the same stages with different characters. Yeah, the Adventure games did that too, but at the very least they made it work considerably differently. Half the characters are just the stage, but with some bullshit thing added in.

>>10226973
>it was only going to be released on GameCube and Xbox. Sony barged in and made some demands that forced Sega
Sony never owned SEGA. How could they FORCE them to release the game on PS2?

>>10227506
they probably thought nobody would buy a 2 hour game

OP is a faggot as usual. It's not bad and as for the situation I know that Iizuka overworked the shit out of himself during the development of this game so it just makes me respect the final product more

>>10227514
i wanna know this too

>>10227514
His post is poorly worded. If what he said is true, then I'm guessing that Sony told them that it needs to be on that engine, and Sega complied because they didn't want their game to not be on the PS2.

>>10227514
It's sonicfag delusions. The source is one blog post from years ago. Heroes is full of disastrously bad design that comes from being shit from the start, not from having to port to PS2. Shadow the Hedgehog is on the same engine and even worse.

>>10226959
>Sonic fanboys defending crappy Sonic games
Cringe

>>10226959
Make flight formation not an absolute slog to play as (just make the formations play like SA1 Sonic, Tails and Knuckles rather than gimping them for the sake of the team gimmick, really), cut down on the pit spam, remove the helmet enemy and improve the bosses (the only decent one is Egg Emperor), and Heroes would be a decent game.

>>10227603
>Heroes is full of disastrously bad design
No it's not you lying fucking idiot. How do you go to sleep at night knowing that you're a lying piece of shit that spews nothing but lies and garbage you fucking moronic idiot? I would punch you in the face and break your teeth for being so stupid

>>10227514
>quietly making your game
>using your custom engine
>suddenly, SONY barges in
>firmly tells you to use their engine and leaves
many such cases

>>10226959
They could have just made more SA2 from the existing port and it would have been preferable

>>10227642
Sonic Heroes is less crapy than Sonic '06 and Shadow The Hedgehog.

>>10227514
Sega thought that not releasing their game on the platform with the most users would be a bad financial move but their engine didn't run well on the ps2 so they switched to renderware but the ps2 version still was shit with worse graphics and at 30fps

>>10227809
Sure, but the point is Sony didn't "barge in and made demands"

>>10227786
>How do you go to sleep at night
Very soundly, as I'm not a 460 pound balding man who's obsessed with Sonic beyond the point of being able to see when a pile of shit is a pile of shit.

>>10227603
>Heroes is full of disastrously bad design that comes from being shit from the start, not from having to port to PS2.
I disagree, Heroes only blunder is the atrocious framerate in almost every platform

The last of chao garden is simply unforgivable. And WHAT a gimmick.

>>10227843
Allegedly, if Sega didn't make a PS2 version sony would black list them from putting other games of the hugely succesful ps2, that's the rumor

>>10227872
>Heroes only blunder is the atrocious framerate in almost every platform
Nigga on gamecube and xbox runs at a locked 60, only ps2 has shit framerate

>>10227809
>but their engine didn't run well on the ps2 so they switched to renderware

What was the original engine?

>>10227872
the only 3D sonic game with worse level design is 06. even total crap like forces is better. Heroes is straight trash especially because shadow is right there and that's the same game but you can shoot at police so its clearly better.

>>10228001
I have no idea, probably some continuation of what they used for SA2

>>10228001
Probably the same engine they used for Sonic Adventure and Billy Hatcher

>>10226983
A simple comparison between the Adventure 1/2 engine and Heroes is all that’s needed to know you’re retarded.

>>10227114
>this was the first 3D Sonic game with proper collision detection
Lol?

I'm willing to cut the game slack for some wonky physics based on "the situation" but not for the game design choices I take issue with. I don't care for the Fly characters or the combat, and not every level needed to be a sky level.
Regardless I do enjoy the game and still play it from time to time.

>>10227603
Do you happen to have a link to the blogpost?

>>10226959
Yeah, it's honestly amazing the people at Sega managed to get anything done given how fucked they were.

>>10228317
That's the game's physics in play you absolute fucking moron.

>>10226973
>Sony looking out for PC gamers
total bros!!

>>10227114
>this was the first 3D Sonic game with proper collision detection
In Metropolis when you knock down a bridge, you can't pre-emptively jump on it because you will fall through it if the knocking-down animation isn't finished

>>10226959
The situation is that Sonic Team can't code good controls are good camera or good collision even if their lives depended on it.

>>10227514
He is spreading bullshit, Sonic Team wanted Sonic Heroes for all 3 major platforms plus PC from the get-go so Sega aquired the licence for RenderWare, the quality of the PS2 port is the result of the team's unfamiliarity for the hardware.
It's the similar cope sonicfags were spreading about Sonic 06 where Microsoft rushed Sega to release the game by christmas.

>>10229002
Hey retard, this game has a mechanic where characters are supposed to stop themselves when running into a ledge. Problem is, it doesn’t work half the time because the collision detection is shit.

>>10229002
it's a collision issue dumbfuck

>>10230067
bonus video showcasing the awesome tornado attack move. this game is complete trash

>>10227872
>the atrocious framerate in almost every platform
Only the PS2 version was an embarrassment on that point.

>>10227451
I suspect they only started working on the special stages extremely late into production and had no time to fix the crappy physics (the special stages shouldn't even need physics)

>>10227805
True but Shadow has better bosses.

>>10226959
Posting in the zoomer thread

>>10230136
>sticking up for Sonic Heroes

>>10230137
best 3D sonic, look at the competition

>>10230189
The Adventure games are better.

>>10227805
Shadow is arguably more polished. It has less bugs and tighter controls. I can't remember a single time in Shad05 where I was killed going through a loop or scripted setpiece.

>>10227514
By banning them from every developing anything for their console.

>>10230472
My ass.

>>10230463
>not ringing the bell

>>10230472
It's true. You should try playing it again sometime. It's a solid game if you can get past the collectathon missions.

>>10227114
seething snoy

>>10226959
I had a lot of fun playing this game with my friends on PC when I was a kid. Surprised to hear people don't like it? Why?

>>10231374
It's can be a finicky/fidgety game at times if you try and rush things and doesn't help when your characters running speed (mainly Speed formation) go from 0 to 100 in seconds, snap to a direction instantly while bouncing off walls like a hokey puck. I've recently tried playing the game with a physics balance patch by taking my time and while it's slightly BETTER, it's still not all that fun and it starts feeling too much like Puzzle Platformer.
Ironic. The only way to enjoy this particular Sonic game is to go at a medium pace.

>>10226959
I just remember hating that level up system, what was the point?

>>10231425
>The only way to enjoy this particular Sonic game is to go at a medium pace.
that's why so many people like sonic heroes. they play it like a normal platform and not like a sonic game. and as a normal platform is a good game.

>>10232306
>that's why so many people like sonic heroes. they play it like a normal platform and not like a sonic game.
That is not why people like the game at all. That particular opinion started being spouted after that e-celeb King K talked about the game. You'll never find an opinion like that prior to his vid. that states SH is better played taking your time.

>>10232745
he stated the game was like a puzzle game, I don't see it. I see it as part platform part beat 'em up, a translation of the original games to 3D. akin to Super Mario 3D World/Land

>>10228317
>>10230067
>he needs a gay baby security harness to not make boo-boos
Have you tried not running off ledges, faggotron?
>>>10230072
>uses an attack named after tornados, something that's dangerous and unpredictable
>WAH WAH WHY IS THIS DANGEROUS AND UNPREDICTABLE
No setting the stage for a hero's parade for you, you whiny little bitch.

>>10233472
Some seriously deranged cope. Thanks for the laugh.

>>10226959
I forgive the game a lot especially around it's launch year mainly because I used it and a few other games to forget about my mom insistently trying to get her affair partner to get close to me and my siblings. My Old Man earned it since he needed to get off his damn high horse for a long time.
I played the PS2 version and still had fun despite the performance issues

>>10226959
Nah, this was the game that killed Sonic for me. Everybody says 06 or the later ones. With me, it was this piece of shit. I will never forgive them, and I never got over it.

>>10227795
damn Sony bastards always ruining everything

>>10227514
They held a gun to their heads

>>10230463
so that's how you're supposed to do that stage

>>10226973
And that's why the PS2 port is dogslop

>>10233472
Mega Man fan moment

>>10227809
isn't that poor planning on SEGA's part for using an engine that doesn't work well on a platform they wanted to release the game on?

>>10227506
>having too short a game so they make you constantly redo the same stages with different characters
So...just like Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

>>10227718
>just make the formations play like SA1 Sonic, Tails and Knuckles
They basically do though? Heroes is essentially the classic games perfectly recreated in 3D.

PS2 version of Sonic Heroes is the worst one because it's the one where it dips at 30 frames per second. Xbox version is tops, GameCube version second best.

>>10226959
>do you at least give it some slack because you understand the situation?
sure. it doesn't make me enjoy the game any more though.

>>10230463
God I hate modern sonic. All that cool shit you can do is now relegated to like a spring sending sonic toward a wall then sonic temple running along it while all you can do is press l1/r1 to move him between 3 lanes.

>>10230967
>It's a solid game if you can get past the requirements to advance in the game
Cool so I just have to play 10 hours of absolute garbage then all of a sudden the game becomes good once I've beaten every level usually more than once under different collectathon requirements. Fuck you.

>>10235713
Rocket Accel is shit compared to spindashing, Triangle Dive is shit compared to gliding and climbing, and don't get me started on how poorly the flight formation plays.

>>10236172
Based anon not falling for Jewish Shadow tricks. Remain vigilant.

>>10236279
So basically your opinion is worthless. Got it.

>>10235713
>Heroes is essentially the classic games perfectly recreated in 3D

>>10236731
He's not wrong. The vibrancy even gives it away.

>>10226959
no, there is no excuse.

>>10236950
>>10235713
Can you do this in Sonic Heroes?

>>10237017
Yes, but Heroes' spin dash is awkward to pull off, not fluid nor is it fun to do compared to previous games since it can't be abused very well. I'm not able to describe it properly, so you'll just have to download an emulator, the rom and and test it out yourself to get a feel for how much it just sucks if you're able.

>>10236950
Yeah, he's right. I misinterpreted his comment. I just REALLY hate Heroes.