/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10196775
I love this game so much, Dreamcast was basically Sonic Adventure machine to me.

>>10196775
It's fine. SA2 is good too.

How many of you have played the original Japanese version? It's even more buggy and unfinished.

>>10196775
Why is this game considered bad now? What is unfun about Sonic's jump arc, or his turning? I don't understand how the game can feel bad to play

>>10196862
I'm playing through it specifically for that reason (I want to see how much more jank it is compared to what we got).

There are also minor differences that I can take in (certain camera angles during cutscenes, for instance).

>>10196775
A game only needs to accomplish one thing in order to be good. It needs to be fun. This game is fun.

>>10196881
>Why is this game considered bad now?
It's only considered bad by people who have opinions you should ignore. The game is pure late 90s bright blue sky SEGA kino and no game will ever replicate that genuine soul

>>10196919
this. its the last good sonic game before maekawa turned it into a furry battle shonen.

>>10196942
What's wrong with embracing destiny?

wish someone would port the retranslation mods of 1 and 2 to DC so you can play the games as intended on original hardware. only problem is the NPC dialogue of SA1 was never retranslated.

>>10196990
Why is the NPC script so important to you? And it's not dialogue, they're monologues that don't say anything special

>>10196775
It's a great game and honestly one of the only 3D platformers I still replay.

>>10196775
>it's objectively bad

I disagree.

>>10196775
You had to be there. Seeing that first beach level running on a demo unit at EB Games in 1999 was mind blowing.

>>10197352
out of curiosity mostly. i remember seeing a pic with an NPC, in the japanese version, he asks sonic "Is it true you saved the world during the Little Planet and Angel Island crises?", in the english version, he only mentions angel island, probably because the localizers didnt know what little planet was, while angel island is a central location in the game. i wonder how many other lines got rewritten like that. also obviously the eggman/robotnik thing

>>10197454
In one of the pre-release builds for the American release they actually kept the Little Plnet line, but they removed it in the final for some reason

>>10196881
>>10196919
>>10196942
Well you see...it's the story that's bad.
Not that I'd ever judge a Mario game for a bad or ridiculous story, but Sonic!!!......it must be done. See. It's just.
Well it's not good. Mario's vacation is spoiled by a doppleganger? Heh....IRRELEVANT! Sonic is just...too serious. I know, I know.

>>10197437
I'm not the one saying it, I'm greentexting.

I loved the chaos…. Anyone else?

>>10196775
Adventure is most fun when you're glitching characters in the hub levels. Raisin chao is a fun RPG but the final stages are balanced for promotional DLC gifts that they never released.

>>10196775
>but you need to accept it
Accept what? If you think it's a bad video game then that's how you rate it, but I don't. I wonder what people's standards are nowadays when a good platformer with satisfying controls, and an excellent translation of 2D Sonic into 3D, is now considered "bad" or something. If you really do want to play a "bad" Sonic video game, play '06, Shadow, Blast, etc... even with its flaws, Sonic Adventure is good, not a masterpiece, at least from my experience, but definitely good.

>>10197864
>Blast
You like Sonic Adventure but hate Blast? Come on now, they're both good.

It's certainly objectively rough. The design decision to lock the end of the game behind a bunch of activities the player is probably not going to want to do in a Sonic game (like fishing) is questionable. Many of the game modes that aren't Sonic are very clearly an afterthought. Even for the time the cutscenes are kind of embarrassingly shit (this is coming after games like Crash 2, and Banjo Kazooie, which animate their characters a lot less jankily).

You can still like the game in spite of all that, and I'd say I largely do, but there's no real getting around those factors as a thing.

>>10198885
>the game isn't fun when you intentionally play the characters you don't like
lol

>>10196775
Do you care what random internet strangers think?

This game and its sequel have become the single most annoying games to discuss online and that has massively poisoned the well when it comes to discussing them. I think some parts of it (mostly to do wth presentation, animation and pacing) are not up to the time's standars, it was way too ambitious, it was new technology, and the controls have never truly clicked with me but it's far from a disaster, and I admire it nonetheless there's lots to like in the game. People who pretend it's like unplayable or whatever are just annoyed or want to jump into the hate bandwagon, no such thing as objectively bad.

>>10197472
The difference between Mario Sunshine and 64 and these games is, their cutscenes are way less numerous and invasive, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 shove hundreds of abysmally produced, UNSKIPPABLE cutscenes down your throat which do nothing but bog down the pace of the games and ammount to the most clumsy Rashomon story ever told in 1, and the tritest shonen sap story in 2. The only character whose story mode I've always liked is Gamma.

>>10198920
I wouldn't be so down on the multi character thing if Adventure 1 didn't force you through all those shitty alt campaigns with all those horrid cutscenes and to watch those credits a billion times in order for you to get to the Final Boss, which is one of the best in the series, having to slog through that stupid jungle a billion times doing fetch quests to open doors and shit is just terrible.

>>10196881
It's been review bombed over the years and now its Metascore is very low. Also due to the way GameFAQs works now, you see the 48 even when looking at the Dreamcast version of the game.

>>10196775
Why is it only Sonic games that are held to this level of relitigation. There's PLENTY of bad games out there I love but I don't waste countless hours online trying to convince people that they are actually good. But Sonic fans will look you straight in the face and try to tell you all these 6/10 at BEST 3D Sonic games are actually classics.

>>10199474
We get a lot of Banjo hate threads on this board, personally I always liked the game but some people really dislike the collectathon nature of them compared to Mario 64 and some people just seem to dislike 3D platformers in general. The Sony platformers are also kind of overlooked in general it seems.

>>10199498
Yeah even though I'm not the biggest fan, I'd argue the Banjo games are pretty good. Donkey Kong 64 is a bloated unfun slog of a game though.

>>10199498
You know, as someone who's never been big into how Sonic Adventure controls, I have the same problem with Banjo, except it's a slower paced game. I can't explain it fully, but the way you interact with the world and move in Mario, Crash and Spyro just feels better, in Adventure and Banjo it just feels like you're floating about in god mode, the homing attack feels strange and cheap, and interacting with anything in Banjo feels like pushing a button, there's such a disconnect with the world. I don't think you can do anything as satisfying as bouncing in a bunch of Crash boxes in either of the games. Closest I'll give Sonic is making a huge leap over an incline with the spindash, but it still feels like shooting a paper ball with a rubberband.

>>10199457
>Metacritic
Do you really just accept this as factual?

>>10199518
The movement in Crash definitely feels good. It's like a natural evolution of what 2D platformers had but in 3D.

>>10199525
It's also probably partially mixed with newer versions of the game which messed up a few things I think. The GameCube version sits at 57 and I can't even find a page for the Dreamcast version, which is even weirder. DC SA2 is still at 89 though

>>10199474
At least part of that is understandable pushback from fans who are sick of hearing the same "muh rough transition to 3d" criticism from journos and people who spend more time watching videos about the games than playing them.

>>10199552
Yeah but I'll say the journos are right in this case.

>>10199548
Metacritic feels like a psyop. Like gamergate but just evolved.

>>10196775
I'm emulating this game after not having played it on the Dreamcast for close to two decades, and I have a question: was the slowdown always this bad? I think I do recall the game slowing down sometimes, but it's fucking massive in some places, and Sonic himself feels like he's wading through molasses.

>>10199564
I dont

>>10196775
I remember when this came out on Gamecube I was 8 years old and all my friends were huge Sonic fans, I was too. They all loved Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. I always thought it was a janky, uncomfortable to control game with terrible voice acting. I still to this day have no idea what people see in Sonic Adventure. Sonic died with the Genesis. I do find it interesting that this game still sparks heated discussion years later for what would overall have almost no effect on the rest of the games industry though.

>>10199606
Yeah, the 3D Sonic games kind of suck, this isn't a controversial opinion.

>>10199628
>people arguing for over two decades over whether the 3D games are good or bad
>not controversial
Think you meant to say "uncommon".

>>10199209
I need to feel like I belong somewhere that isn't going to reject me on the first whiff of bad taste.

Never have I raged so much than in DX when I'm trying to feed fucking animals to my Chao as E-102 and the Chao is just FUCKING AROUND in the water swimming and having a whale of a time and I can't get him out because E-102 auto-hovers above the water

>>10199609
You were too young and were likely already exposed to far better games by that time. SA was *the* big leap from 2D into the possibilities of 3D, going from playing S3&K to seeing shit like the whale breaking the bridge in Emerald Coast was mind blowing.

>>10196919
I agree. The game's flaws (camera, janky controls) are but minor nitpicks in a sea of kino. The music, the level design, the gameplay variety, the characterization are all the very best of Sonic.

This is the most beautiful and emotional moment ever captured in a Sonic game, and it has never been topped.

If it was objectively bad nobody would be capable of enjoying it

>>10199209
No, but for some reason they really care what I think and I have no idea why.

>>10199746
People like jank.

>>10199739
SA2's ending

>>10199752
If a game has no jank it's shit

>>10199706
There's a lot of things people say are bad about Sonic Adventure that I'm willing to argue against. Gamma's completely fucked up controls aren't one of them; I have no idea what they were smoking when they designed his hovercraft mode. It's NEVER useful, the only thing it ever does is stop you from picking up Garden items in the water!

>>10199457
That's clearly is the Xbox version which is a port of a port

>>10199360
sunshines cutscenes are unskippable and far worse

>>10199712
Yeah it totally wasnt Doom, duke nukem 3D, Mario 64, Quake, Gran Tursmo, Half-Life, Crash Bandicoot, it was the janky platformer from a dying company that only appeals to literal chuldren and showed up a few years late to the party that really brought 3D gaming into the spotlight.

sonic being tied to the idea he has to be "fast" is why sonic 3d games suck ass
they have to make it a jank ass racing game without a race with on rails sections where you have to stop and autolock enemies to attack
this design is just bad

>>10199863
2D sonic games where he has to go "fast" suck ass too. boost meters and shit like that just fuck up the game up in order to make even the worst player go fast

>>10199518
>and Banjo it just feels like you're floating about in god mode
hahaha, what the fuck. banjo is like the least power fantasy out of any mainstream platformer. banjo is slow and pathetically weak. every interaction makes him grind to a halt and do a slow jump.

>>10199831
>far worse
Laughable claim, Sunshine's are infinitely better produced even than the Adventure 2 ones and there's like 15 minutes combined, versus more than an hour in Adventure 2, and maybe twice as much in Adventure with every character combined.

>>10199774
You missed the point, all the scores are grouped together so it drags down the contemporary Dreamcast average score by grouping it with reviews of the ports

>none of the people who always say it's bad are in this thread

It's an open book, where are you?

>>10199887
Did you read the rest of my post? I'm not saying that as a good thing, the point is it is weightless, running around with Kazooie's trot feels like being a ghost floating about with no momentum versus the other positive examples I provided where there's some weight.

>grind to a halt and do a slow jump
This is what I mean when I say it's like "pressing a button". It's specially bad when it triggers a cutscene, and it feels like everything in the game functions like this. It' feels like crap.

>>10199890
You're a fan of the weird interspecies fantasy in mario sunshine then?

>>10199917
>weird interspecies fantasy
Excuse me what, what are we talking about again did you get the wrong thread?

>>10199925
oh you're defending mario sunshine without ever having played it
shut the fuck up then

>>10199930
While taking this pic with my 100% file I realized you meant the whole "mama Peach" thing, it takes like 10 minutes of the game and Bowser was lying who the fuck says it like that

>>10198835
I have childhood trauma from playing Blue Marine on Sonic Blast, nowadays I think it's a functional platformer, just bland and doesn'r feel much like Sonic, it doesn't even come close to Adventure's quality.

>>10196775
>it's objectively bad
>there's nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it
>but you need to accept it

I do?

>>10196775
Sonic Adventure is a good barometer for if you're talking to someone who actually was part of the Dreamcasts core audience at the time or little zoomers who grew up playing it on the GameCube.
While the demo of the whale level was mind blowing, other games like Soul Calibur looked even better and held way more appealing to the teenage/college age audience that the DC attracted. In fact of the launch games, I'd say it was third at best in terms of relevance. Everyone had NFL2K and Soul Calibur. There was also a lot of Ready 2 Rumble, Hydro Thunder, MK Gold and Powerstone. Then games like Marvel, DOA2, and Code Veronica got released followed by Quake 3 and PSO and online matches of NFL2k when they really started pushing the netplay.
General sentiment was that there was way too much talking and Saturday morning cartoon type shit in SA, and Sonic was definately not "cool" anymore.
Game was still popular don't get me wrong, but it wasn't a landmark DC game unless you were like 6 years old.

>>10199712
>>10199851
I don't know where this idea that only one game can be revolutionary came from.

>>10196775
real talk, what made bro do this? what prompted him to drop the rawest pose of all time

>>10196942
>Implying that wasn't already the case as soon as knuckles arrived

>>10200117
Oh dear.

>>10198920
I want to see the big boss battle and the climax of the game's story, and they locked that behind Knuckles, Amy, and Big, who aren't particularly fun. How is that not a design flaw?

>>10197472
I don't think anyone specifically likes or defends Sunshine's cutscenes. They're unobtrusive enough not to be a huge deal, but they are pretty shit. I don't think anyone ever needed fully voice acted Toad dialogue in a Mario game.
They're also a whole level above that particular era of Sonic in terms of competency.

>>10196775
that game is a piece of shit but yea, I don't even fucking understand what people mean when they say that. do you mean your like hillary clinton? you have a personal position and a public position? politicians have to win elections so they have to do that, so is the gayming community applying pressure on you so you'll give into their demands? and when you say objective what objective ruling body are you referring to? is there some type of association or institute that determines the objective value of video games?

I don't even know where these people come from, probably Youtube.

>>10196775
All the polygon sonic games are rubbish. Some games just dont work in 3D. Sonic is one of those.

>>10196775
You, /vr/, /v/, /vg/ and every other forum of video game discussion need to let go of this word "objectively". The only things you can definitively measure objectively are technical aspects like framerate, resolution and so on. ""Objectively"" there are many games that are good out there that do nothing for me. Enough with this shit. What did YOU think of Sonic Adventure anon? Did you enjoy it? Why or why not?

>>10202250
This I'm sick of smartasses pretending everything can be boiled down to an objective metric and that a game has to be either dogshit or a masterpiece.

>>10202282
You can enjoy something that's shit and dislike something that is obviously competent. That said, I like SA1 and it is very good

>>10196775
yes

>>10202287
I love SA1, and it's borderline awful.
Like, total fucking ball drop of what was one of the absolute tent-pole gaming franchises of the 90's. Holy shit.
Literally 5th gen shovelware like Tarzan or Blues Brothers 2000 is about as good as Sonic Adventure.
Sonic Adventure should have been like Banjo Kazooie or Spyro x10 in terms of fun, and just good, competent game design, and it is not.

>>10196775
>3D Sonic that feels like a good translation from his 2D installments into the 3rd dimension
>Soulful hubworlds and a story that feels like a lighthearted shonen anime from the 90's
>Decent graphics during gameplay especially for its time of release in 1998/1999
>A ton of characters to play that all control good and have gimmicks that (mostly) work
>Sonic feels just as he should in 3D and level design is some of the best out there

It has characters that feel like filler, though their campaigns are short, and while Tails and Knuckles work I get why people preferred something more traditional... and yes, it has glitches... but are these things enough for a title with so many qualities to be suddently considered "objectively" bad? I don't get it.

>>10199951
It's so funny that Peach BELIEVED it. That means Peach has fucked Bowser

>>10204648
Or she could just be the stereotypical sheltered, clueless princess that probably still thinks babies are carried by the stork. And to be fair, there's precedent for that within the series.

>>10204648
>>10205209
https://www.quora.com/Why-hasn-t-Bowser-impregnated-Princess-Peach