/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10163961
You may or may not like Neutopia series. I think the Dungeon Explorer games and Magic Knight Rayearth for Saturn are easily better than most of the Zelda games though. Also Final Fantasy Adventure (technically the first Mana game I think) for Game Boy, haven't tried it but I've heard good things.

>>10163974
Tried Ray Earth. Hated it, sorry. Always forget about Neutopia, will try it soon.

All Zeldalikes are terrible. People just feel like they are obligated to say they enjoy the alternative titles to feel interesting. For god's sake, people are seriously out there saying Terranigma is one of the best games ever, when it's utterly mediocre.

It's probably better to nail down what you're looking for in a Zelda game, since Zelda is so many things in the first place.
Is it top-down action? Exploring a semi-open map? High fantasy adventuring? That particular "Japanese quirky" tone that the games have?

The Little Big Adventure games are very good, but those are arguably more rooted in PC adventure games, with the addition of some combat, which makes them a distinctly different sort of thing.

>>10163961
Brave Fencer Musashiden, and Alundra are great.

>>10163961
>Are there any Zelda "Clones" out there that are actually as good as if not better than the real deal?

Lolno
Beyond Good & Evil is the best of them though, only crippled by being so unfinished. I had no idea it was actually a Zelda style game before playing it, so that was a very pleasant surprise.

>There has to be at least one out there that truly captures the specificity of real Zelda
You'd think so, wouldn't you. A lot of people seem to really like downplaying all that Zelda does or acting like there are a ton of games on its level, and while that may be true considering its weaker entries against the stronger 'clones', there's basically nothing like Zelda at its peak outside of itself. It does a unique combination of things in order to create highly interactive, explorable worlds that other games can't pull off, like they lack Nintendo first party studio levels of supreme autistic attention to detail that is completely necessary in order for Zelda to work as well as it does.

>>10163961
the first Legacy of Kain is a decent Zelda clone

>>10163961
Golden axe warrior on master system is a better zelda 1

Also a lot of these aren't aiming to be a zelda clone, they use a similar action- adventure setup but with a different focus.

Beyond oasis puts much more emphasis on combat for instance and does it way better than any zelda game.

>>10163986
I love Brave Fencer Musashi but I don't think its really anything like Zelda. Alundra is a lot like the other games I had mentioned trying, it may play similarly to Zelda but itsnt really like it in any other aspect.

>>10163961
vast majority of these games aren't aiming to be a "Zelda clone" as they (Mana games, Beyond Oasis, landstalker, etc) and all do their own thing.

You expecting them to be a Zelda romhack will only end in dissapointment.

>>10164004
>You expecting them to be a Zelda romhack will only end in disappointment.
That is unless you play an actual Zelda romhack
of which Master of Time is the only really good one so far

>>10164013
Parallel Worlds was pretty fantastic. My only gripe is that you can't get the magic boomerang later if you get the normal boomerang in the early game.

>>10163961
Ys, particulary the Oath in Felghana-style games

>>10163961
>>10163980
Alundra 1

>>10163961
>There has to be at least one out there that truly captures the specificity of real Zelda
If you can't even put into words what you like about Zelda, then you probably never liked it for its own merits to begin with.

>>10164002
Alright OP I have some idea of what you are looking for. Check out LandStalker on Genesis and its sequels, Dark Savior and Time Stalkers.

For more games closer to Zelda's atmosphere, try the Capcom Dungeons and Dragons games, Tower of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara, playing as the elf. You might also like their other fantasy brawlers, King of Dragons and Knights of the Round. Play the other Golden Axe games. Kind of a stretch but you might like Dragon's Lair as well, gameplay is nothing like Zelda but if you like the cartoony high fantasy style you might enjoy it

>>10164107
Somehow I missed this, but you might also really like the Shining series. It spans several different consoles and some of them (like Shining Wisdom) play differently from the others. I may as well go ahead and plug Popful Mail as well, again gameplay is nothing like Zelda but its world and quirky dialog is sure to capture your interest.

>>10163980
Terranigma balls

>>10163980
>Zeldalikes

Nier

I think the Tomba guy mentioned that it was more inspired by Zelda than Mario in an interview

>>10164002
>>10163986
Am I the only one who played the fuck out of the demo for this but never played the full game? This and fucking Wild 9

>>10163986
undub when? I never want to hear Steve Blums raspy cock gargling voice ever again.

>>10163980
true

>>10164248
HOIYPE

>>10164004
This. Those other games do a lot of their own thing and tend to get lumped into a "Zelda clone" category, because they are top down adventure games. It's like parents calling everything a Nintendo, because Nintendo is popular. Zelda is popular so every game in the genre gets called a Zelda clone. So, while this is true, it's also true that some of the other games in this genre are actually Zelda clones and they aren't very good, because they are intentional zelda clones. The mana games have their own flaws but they are not Zelda clones, beyond oasis isn't really anything like Zelda either besides sharing a camera perspective-ish. Zeldas easy to digest/easy to play, Disney esque storyline plots and world are what most people like about it. Once you change the dynamic, it's not Zelda.

>>10163961
most people never played zelda for the gameplay. it explains both the lack of successful clones and why zelda was able to change its gameplay entirely without harming the brand (it infact grew as a result)

I've heard Okami described as a good 3D Zelda-like, but I don't know. I still haven't finished it, the latter half of the game felt tedious to me.

>>10163961
How does Golden axe warrior fall short compared to Zelda I? I felt that one was pretty close to Zelda I in spirit when I tried it but I'd like an expert opinion.

>>10163961
Honestly, it's not a very good gameplay formula, probably ys 1-2 were memorable

>>10164331
>because they are top down adventure games
>Disney esque storyline plots and world
I'd say more than the plot it's puzzles that most make a Zelda-rogue, simply put if you make a top down adventure but forget something like dungeons it fails by default.

>>10164354
>Zelda-rogue
No, Zeldas are not roguikes.
>Puzzles make Zelda
Zelda puzzles are the lowest common denominator of "puzzles", which reaffirms my original point
>Easy to digest/ easy to play
If you're trying to make an argument that puzzles in Zeldas somehow make them roguelikes, or that the puzzles in Zelda games are actually good puzzles, you're going to need to provide examples comparisons for that kind of conjecture

>>10164375
That zelda itself backed off on puzzle solving proves that puzzles filtered many people. If a puzzle stops someone from solving it, it's a good enough puzzle to be considered a puzzle.

>>10164375
I was comparing them to action top downs that don't have or try at puzzles; it's pure action. Such a top down game is obviously not much of a Zelda. A Zelda might have around 20 puzzles per dungeon, whether or not they're good.

>>10164417
>zelda itself backed off on puzzle solving
all the shrines on BotW and TotK are puzzle rooms

>>10163961
Action adventures? Yeah, there are a lot.

>>10164508
something that is designed to accept as many solutions as possible is not a puzzle. A puzzle is a lock that requires a key, a lock that is not locked and is opened without any key is not a puzzle.

there has to be a wrong answer.

>>10163961
Alundra. It's brilliant.

>>10163961
>>10164015
This but only Version >1.1
Also
>Ancient stone tablets

>>10164493
Ohh I see, it was worded a little wonky, which is why I was asking for clarification. Yes, in that case, many “Zelda clones” lack push block shoot arrow puzzles.m, which is a staple of classic Zelda.

>>10163961
Alundra is an amazing game and my favorite clone of Hydlide, Zelda ALTTP felt dated to me after playing it. I personally prefer all the games you mentioned over Zelda ALTTP, it really bored me.

>>10164331
Yeah, I don't see this happening with other genres. People don't use terms like Doom-clone anymore unless we're actually talking about games that actually resemble Doom a lot, like Heretic, which was still a very fun game.
When I see a journalist using the term 'zelda-clone' out of nowhere I feel like I'm reading propaganda.

>>10164334
Okami is basically a mid to low tier Zelda that gets away with it by having amazing art and copious amounts of soul.
It has way too much of that Gamecube and Wii era Zelda handholding. It's honestly way worse than any of those games were in that regard.
The combat mechanics in theory are cool, but it feels like the training wheels never quite come of. Surprising that this was a Hideki Kamiya game. I don't know what happened.

>>10163961
>>10163998
>>10164000
>>10164004
>>10164330
>>10164331
>>10164659
You mean Hydlikes?

>>10164659
> When I see a journalist using the term 'zelda-clone' out of nowhere I feel like I'm reading propaganda.
While I agree with your sentiment, this has been going on since Pac-Man, anon. Pac-Man clones, asteroids clones, breakout clones, pang clones, Mario clones, donkey Kong clones, resident evil clones, street fighter clones, metroidvanias, roguelikes, rogue lites, scottformers, Zelda likes, oot likes, botw likes. I hope this jogs your memory, anon. You seem pretty aware…

>>10163961
I'd offer up Ico and Okami as good examples.
I played both of them after Twilight Princess and had a lot of fun the whole time saying "Oh, so that's where that thing in Twilight Princess came from."

Goof Troop for the snes
You’ll need a friend though

>>10164330
BotW doesn't really change the gameplay entirely. What it does is cut what would be dungeons up into mini chunks, and scatter them across the map so you can play them in any order. The basic "Zelda feel" is still there. The parts have all just been moved around.

>>10163961
Puzzle wise The Solomon key games for nes and mame are similar to A link to the past.

It's not better than Zelda, but Addams Family Values is better than most of the western movie-licensed titles. There's no save feature, and dungeon entrance areas act as checkpoints. It has an interesting, haunting atmosphere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Y4N1CACHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaIptsdHpQY

What happened to OP? I'm curious what he/she thinks about my recs >>10164107 >>10164120

>>10164269
The English voice cast being anime voice actors is what makes that dub so great though. It's all easy to laugh at, including Steve's voice. The game itself has a light hearted, humorous tone throughout, which the dub matches.

They're called Hydelidelikes.

>>10163980
Terranigma is fantastic, fuck you

>>10163980
Terranigma is not "mediocre". Zelda is mediocre, as in not great but not bad. Zelda is merely competent at what it is, but doesn't truly excel in any way, but since it is competent and "comfy" people love it because that's all it really takes.

Terranigma is a would be masterpiece that suffers from fatal flaws rendering it a "good with a guide" game, it's not mediocre, it's a tragedy.

>>10163974
>Also Final Fantasy Adventure (technically the first Mana game I think) for Game Boy
This is a good answer. It was essentially a bunch of guys at Squaresoft that said "Let's make a Final Fantasy version of Zelda."

>>10163961
Multiple games you just mentioned are better than LttP, which is an extremely overrated and mediocre game.

Lttp is extremely linear, the puzzles are not very clever, and the bosses are kind of boring. Combat is as basic as it gets. The story is as bare bones and generic as the Zelda franchise gets.

Awakening, Oracles, Minish, Link between worlds, and spirit tracjs are all superior to lttp.

Is you think lttp is better than those games, or any of the ones mentioned in op, you're opinion 100% comes down to tranny nostalgia bias and nothing more. As such, you are impossible to please. When the main appeal of a game is that you played it wren yourl were 8 years old, before you cut your dick off, well no shit no other game will ever give you those fee fees you retarded fucking faggot.

>>10165825
The troon isn't going to like it if it didn't even like crusader or mana. This fucking faggot claimed they're not even as good as Zelda 1. Why are you wasting your time?

>>10163961
>as good as or better
No, there aren't, period.

There's some rough gems out there but nothing truly stellar and dominating the way Zelda is. Sorry, it's just the truth. Looking at you too, Centy.

>>10164417
Zelda puzzles have never filtered anyone and multiple different solutions to problems have always been the end goal in mind with Zelda games but last that identity when OoT was released.

>>10163978
>Always forget about Neutopia, will try it soon.
Neuopia is good and very Zelda-like (more like the NES Zelda than ALTTP, though). But even then, playing it makes me realize how well-designed the OG Zelda really is. Neutopia is maybe 8/10 while Zelda 1 is 10/10.
>>10164330
Why do ignorant zoomers say shit like this?
>>10164004
>>10164331
In many cases the difference boils down to ARPG-style vs top-down action-adventure. Even Final Fantasy Adventure is more of an RPG than Zelda, with more emphasis on stats and resources than (eg) Link's Awakening.

>>10163974
dungeon explorer is awesome
the neutopia games aren't "great" but i like the second one, because of how beefy the magic wands are and the overworld is more connected

i think Ys IV (pce) is superior to link to the past

To all people saying “Alundra” here. No, it sucks. It’s dull, grey, the combat sucks. The puzzles are boring (not difficult, just take a lot of time to complete). The combat just sucks - the enemies take forever to kill (I know that it’s Working Designs doing, but still).
So far, the best Zelda-like I’ve played was Okami. And still it’s far from perfect - it’s too easy and has too much dialogue and exposition (and fighting the same boss 3 times is not fun).

>>10167730
I'd say Okami is a great experience, that everyone should play, but only really a questionably good video game.
It has so many good ideas, but that gameplay just builds to nothing. Issun says "do this", and you do it, and that's most of the game.

I'm with some anons here.

Golden Axe Warrior is a better Zelda 1 than Zelda, it nailed the action down

Crusaders of Centy plays better than ALTTP, but lacks the "deep lore"

Terranigma and Secret of Mana has Soul, but they are janky

But yes, there are few good games out there, I explored the retro libraries looking for hiddem gems, there are none, only some niche interests

Want a good zelda clone? Honewtly, make one

>>10164715
>>10165976
Ys and Xanadu made it via in game cameos clear Hydildo is a smelly piece of shit

How the fuck to we define a "zelda clone" exactly? Thus far I've been operating on an "I know it when I see it" rule but I don't consider many top-down action adventure games to be zelda clones. I don't consider the quintet games to be zelda clones but gunman's proof, Blossom Tale, and Crusader of Centy are "zelda-clones" and I have no fucking idea why my brain makes this distinction. Is it a visual style or something?

>>10168305
It would be better to tell which Zelda when comparing, as Zelda 1, 2, alttp and oot for example are very different games.

Ott was just Zelda but no longer top down. But top down cameras angles do exist in game.

>>10163961
Haven't played much "Zelda Clones" but Ittle Dew 2 was the closest to a zelda clone I have played recently

>>10167784
Agreed. It was one of my favourite games in my childhood, but I replayed it recently and was bored most of the time, sadly.

>>10163961
Crystalis (NES version ONLY) is pretty fucking great.

Unironically play Spiritual Warfare.

>>10163974
Rayearth is absolutely garbage. A result from the source material being CLAMP garbage, the Saturn being garbage, and WD being garbage. The garbage trifecta.
Mana however, is fantastic.

>>10163961
Ive heard landstalker on the megadrive is better than zelda, I never tried it myself though. I am willing to play dark savior for the saturn which is made by the same team

>>10168305
Zelda is pretty much a blend of action, exploration, and puzzles. Gear acquisition to upgrade your move set and give you access to new areas. Distinct from the Metroidvania style of game because there's an overworld/dungeon separation, rather than one big dungeon. No hard RPG stats.
Generally they have a tone like something out of Disney or Studio Ghibli, as opposed to dark and serious fantasy, but I wouldn't say that's necessarily essential.

Played a bit of Willow recently. It seems pretty solid but it's a tough son of a bitch in places.

>>10170469
Depends how much you like isometric platforming.

>>10164013
>master of time
Dude, Indigo Chapter 2, The Missing Link, Dark Hyrule Fantasy, and The Sealed Palace. Please cleanse your pallate of that mess.

>>10164715
no

>>10168305
>How the fuck to we define a "zelda clone" exactly?
Autistic semantic answer: Everything Zelda does in terms of combat and puzzle progression.
IE.) Darksiders

Non-autistic answer: Games with light Zelda elements.
IE.) Star Fox Adventures, God of War, Alundra

>>10164417
>>10164560
Learn what definitions are, retard.

>>10163961
Boktai 2 on GBA

>>10164659
>People don't use terms like Doom-clone anymore
Correct, they're called "Boomer Shooters" now.

>>10164749
>oot likes
>botw likes
Action Adventure and Open World games? Seriously, who in the fuck has ever uttered those words?

>>10171078
Would you be surprised if I told you it came from /v/?
https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/646733710/#q646738952

>>10171127
>Would you be surprised if I told you it came from /v/?
At this point I'd kill myself in utter shock if most of these shitty buzzwords and phrases DIDN'T come from either there or from Zoomers when there's already a plethora of words in the English language that ALREADY describe these genres. Language, at least on the internet, has been deteriorating exponentially fast that I'm starting to believe in the far off future we're gonna' start referring to things using just shapes and illegible shouts akin to Peter reciting all 50 states in a quarter of a second -- WE'RE GOING BACKWARDS goddammit!

>>10171067
Boomer Shooter = full game that can be played offline
Zoomer Shooter = requires online, day-1 updates and a season pass
I kinda miss calling them Doom clones. At least it wasn't as pretentious and retarded.

>>10171229
Don't appeal to retards who use those terms even when redirecting them as insults especially towards the gen that uses them.You're only dumbing down to their level by doing that.
In my view, "Zoomers" should have no label, because their gen has no culture. Makes it more accurate and symbolically sad.

>>10170995
No, you are the one with shit taste save for Indigo as I haven't tried that yet, as I'm saving myself for more progress being made on it.

Master of Time is in a completely different league than the other hacks, it's an actually properly designed Zelda game at its core that actually pulls off what IMO someone ought to want out of Zelda. It can be fairly faulted for being unpolished, but it has much more actual substance than the other hacks, contrary to people's claims about it. It has so many well thought out secrets that are really satisfying to discover.

Conversely, hacks like Missing Link, while having 'polish', are so straightforward that you're only really playing them for more or less the gimmick of playing a hack with a certain amount of seeming effort put into it, even if they're paper thin and you're just gonna blow through them and never touch them again.

Sealed Palace is too focused on plowing through dungeons and not enough thought was put into its world and how you interact with it as a whole, falling back on re-using default shit from from OoT too much.

Why are people shitting on rayearth? It's probably the best 2d saturn game

>>10171690
>Baseless praise
Whatever, dev. Your hack sucks.