/vr/ - Retro Games

what about europe?

>Mario Cart

>>10154402
Is there also a list for best sellers in other markets?
Curious on the differences between west and Japan

looks about right. it was a terrible console overall with an equally terrible controller. good memories though

>zelda
>rpg

>>10154402
>donkey kong 64 that high
yikes

>>10154402
Pokemon stadium numbers are interesting. More people bought the tech demo then the actual full game.

Top 50 best-selling Saturn games in Japan:
1. Virtua Fighter 2 - 1.3 million
2. Sega Rally Championship | 600,000
3. Fighters Megamix - 530,000
4. Super Robot Taisen F Kanketsu-hen - 510,000
5. Sakura Taisen 2 - 510,000
6. Super Robot Taisen F - 460,000
7. NiGHTS into dreams... - 390,000
8. Shinseiki Evangelion: 2nd Impression - 390,000
9. Tokimeki Memorial: Forever with You - 370,000
10. Fighting Vipers - 360,000
11. Sakura Taisen - 360,000
12. Night Warriors: Darkstalker's Revenge - 340,000
13. Nonomura Byouin no Hitobito - 330,000
14. Virtual-On: Cyber Troopers - 320,000
15. Street Fighter Alpha 2 - 310,000
16. J-League Pro Soccer Club o Tsukurou! 2 - 310,000
17. Street Fighter Alpha: Warriors' Dreams - 290,000
18. Panzer Dragoon Zwei - 290,000
19. Decathlete - 270,000
20. Enemy Zero - 270,000
21. Dragon Force - 270,000
22. J.League Victory Goal '96 - 270,000
23. Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers - 260,000
24. The King of Fighters '95 - 260,000
25. Kakyuusei - 250,000
26. Puyo Puyo Sun - 250,000
27. Kidou Senshi Gundam Gaiden Vol. 1: Senritsu no Blue - 240,000
28. Tengai Makyou: Dai-Yon no Mokushiroku - 230,000
29. Virtua Cop 2 - 230,000
30. Kidou Senshi Gundam: Ghiren no Yabou - 230,000
31. Grandia - 230,000
32. J.League Pro Soccer Club o Tsukurou! - 230,000
33. Sentimental Graffiti - 230,000
34. Pro Yakyuu Team o Tsukurou! - 230,000
35. Doukyuusei If - 220,000
36. Guardian Heroes - 220,000
37. Virtua Fighter Kids - 210,000
38. Shinseiki Evangelion (Reprint) - 210,000
39. Greatest Nine '96 - 200,000
40. Lunar: Silver Star Story - 200,000
41. Slayers Royal - 200,000
42. EVE burst error - 190,000
43. Pro Yakyuu Greatest Nine '97 - 190,000
44. Shinseiki Evangelion - 190,000
45. The King of Fighters '96 - 180,000
46. Langrisser III - 180,000
47. X-Men vs. Street Fighter - 170,000
48. Gungriffon - 170,000
49. Darkstalkers 3 - 160,000
50. Dead or Alive - 160,000

>>10154457
DON'T POST THE PLAYSTATION ONE!!!

>>10154457
So it was true than while the saturn sold more consoles than the N64 , the N64 sold more games.
Interesting.

>>10154457
i tought sakura taisen was bigger in japan

>>10154457
List is kind of off.
For example VF2 sold 1.7M.
https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/

>>10154459
It's about what you'd expect.

>>10154424
here you go
Famicom

>>10154424
Super Famicom

>>10154424
PSX

>>10154424
PS2

>>10154424
GB

>>10154424
GBA. that's all I have saved, source is https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

>>10154534
>>10154535
>>10154546
>>10154545
Funny to see Zelda not being a top seller

>>10154550
Zelda wasn't a top seller in the US either.

>>10154402
Shit, Super Market Bros was that good?

>>10154428
>Why, yes, Zelda is a RPG.

>>10154407
UK March-April 1999

>>10154538
Weird there’s no Koeislop on this despite the SNES and PS2 both having a ton

>>10154402
>Japan
Nips are notorious for having shit taste, thinking like babies, and being xenophobic. They will never like anything good, and don't have classic liberal tastes. Truly sad and not worth listening to.

t.japanophile

UnitedKingdom 1999 annual sales

>>10155258
You can hear the tracksuits and gabber music just from this list

>>10155252
Then why do I like their games, especially the weirder ones more, is it because I have shit taste :(

>>10155239
megaman hermanos, it's over.

>>10155264
The people that make the games in japan are social outcasts, they are not the same people that buy them, not by a long shot.

>>10155273
>The people that make the games in japan are social outcasts
are you 13 years old, retarded, or just fishing for (You)?

cart jenre

>those nintendo royalties in 2001

>>10154417
This was my first thought

>>10154427
Terrible as an overstatement I think. I'm learning it did have a few hidden gems but not as much as the other consoles that gen or SNES. The controller is definitely pretty goofy looking though

>>10154550
>>10154546
Yes, Minish Cap isn't even in the top 50.

Also kinda surprising that RPGs didn't sell all that well on the GBA in Japan.

>>10155258
Holy shit tier list.

>>10155258
luv me footy
luv me Droivah
luv me Gran Turismo (just like in Top Geah innit)
luv me Larah
luv me Colin McRae
'ate 2D games
'ate shmups
'ate Mega Man
simple as

>>10154402
Wave Race and Pilotwings that low?

Shamefur display

>>10154457
In some ways sad as a saturn fan but n64 couldn't dream of a fighting game as good fighting vipers or a game like virtua on.
Still n64 drops off real quick going under 200k at 29 while saturn has to go all the way down to 42 to reach that.

>>10154402
Back in the day I had the impression that zelda wasn't that popular in japan because it wasn't a real rpg. I don't know why pilot wings is always treated so bad, I think flying just doesn't appeal to most people.

>>10154535
And they just couldn't be bothered to release Chrono Trigger in pal territories. They probably didn't have time to replace the main character with a talking egg.

>>10154493
Gran turismo only sells a bit more than sega rally

>>10155657
pretty good games really, especially driver

>>10154402
The Waverace 64 and Starfox 64 disparity between America and Japan is pretty shocking.

>>10154460
The Saturn only sold about 300,000 more consoles. The Saturn and N64 were in a statistical tie in Japan, basically 5 million and change a piece. But Japan was Saturn's strongest territory while it was the N64's weakest. It's not even close. The Saturn was just able to keep it's head above water in Japan. It wasn't the runaway hit that people like to think it was.

>>10154402
>>10154457
This proves that most Saturn owners in Japan treated it as a Virtua Fighter machine and that's about it. 17 N64 games sold better than the second best selling Saturn game.

>>10154402
That fall off is massive. Saturn really was a leap ahead of it.

>>10155914
You can tell by the Saturn list that the attach rate was a relatively small number of whales buying obscure shit. The average attach rate will be high if you have whales who buy 40 games subsidizing the majority who bought two games. That's why the sales data plummets so quickly. You start dropping below 100,000 sales because there weren't enough Saturn owners still buying software. If you have 100,000 whales then no single game will sell above 100,000 but the attach rate can be sky high if those 100,000 people buy everything that comes out.

>>10155938
There were probably a lot of early adopters that just didn't get PlayStations. The Saturn did very well right out of the gate but most people probably jumped ship to the PlayStation after getting their Virtua Fighter fix. The ones that stayed would have just kept buying Saturn software but there weren't enough people left in the ecosystem to generate any million sellers or even a lot of half a million sellers.

>>10154535
I find these lists fun to look at, but not for the typical "my favorite franchise's entry sold better than the other franchise's," but rather for the random shit, like Sankyo Fever Fever being so high on the list, to the point that it outsold Rockman X.

>>10155986
It's surprising to see how low video game sales were back then for most games. Outside of sensations like Street Fighter II and Dragon Quest, a shit ton of games weren't breaking a million despite their current fame. The industry was way smaller and games could sell a few hundred thousand and that would be considered decent.

>>10155938
whales? Why the negative skew?

full 1999 UK sales list

>>10154402
This list is interesting because for the longest time I was told japan didn't care for the N64 but those sale numbers seem fine for that era and for that country, not FC/SFC/GB numbers but still not terrible and it seems on par with the Saturn which I was told it did well in Japan.
Surprised that Pokemon Stadium 0 sold so well when it was just a prototype, same for Mario Tennis.

>>10156049
As you can see, Japan also really liked Kirby 64, Yoshi's Story and Mario Tennis, those are considered N64 classics while in the west are barely mentioned (Yoshi specifically being a "black sheep")

>>10154538
>>10154402
I would have thought the best selling PS1 game would have outsold the best selling N64 game, but that's not the case.

>>10156034
Right, now we’re calling game enthusiasts buying complete games for a console they love whales versus gacha addicted coomers who deserve Siberian work camps

UnitedKingdom TOP SELLING GAMES in 2000

>>10154457
>saturn was literally a virtual fighter 2 machine

>>10154457
>4. Super Robot Taisen F Kanketsu-hen - 510,000

can someone explain this?

>>10154402
>the best selling 3rd party n64 game in japan was a konami baseball game

the fuck?

>>10156198
japan loves baseball

>>10156062
It did, Mario Kart did around 1.8M while DQ7 did around 3.9M.

>>10156191
It did around the same numbers as others games on the franchise, looks like a big seller just because it is third on a consoles with only one million seller, compare it to the others games and you will see.

>>10155938
The saturn was ahead of the PS1 for the first 2-3 years but after the dreamcast and FF7 came out it pretty much died there.

>>10154402
Any megadrive/genesis and dreamcast top selling games data?

>>10156105
Who wants to be a millionaire chads are eatin gud

>>10156213
Worldwide

>>10156252
It kind of did if you don't count bundles.
SM64 did around the same as GT.

>>10156034
It's relevant to when the majority of owners don't buy a lot but a smaller percentage buys a ton. The sales chart shows a more significant disparity than what we're seeing on the N64 or PS1 where there were several million sellers. On the Saturn the numbers drop precipitously. But the Saturn DID have a high software attach rate. Those two things can only be true at the same time if 90% of owners bought one game and 10% of owners bought two dozen.

Attach rate can work one of two ways. 1) A 10.0 software attach rate because 100% of owners buy 10 games each, or a 10.0 software attach rate because 90% of owners buy 1 game and 10% of owners buy 100. Those numbers are all just illustrative since I didn't do the real math but that's the difference between the Saturn and the other two consoles.

>>10156062
PS1 had a lot more diversity in interest. Meanwhile every single N64 owner bought the same 10 games.

>>10156232
Top 50 best-selling Mega Drive and Mega CD games in Japan:
1. Puyo Puyo - 520,000
2. Shining Force - 243,000
3. Sonic the Hedgehog - 230,000
4. Shining Force II - 218,000
5. Phantasy Star IV - 217,000
6. Virtua Racing - 192,000
7. Street Fighter 2: Special Champion Edition - 190,000
8. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - 185,000
9. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 - 174,000
10. Shining in the Darkness - 162,000
11. Langrisser II - 158,000
12. Landstalker - 153,000
13. [MCD] Silpheed - 150,000
14. Columns - 134,000
15. [MCD] Shining Force CD - 129,000
16. Puyo Puyo Tsuu - 117,000
17. Super Street Fighter II - 115,000
18. Ayrton Senna's Super Monaco GP 2 - 113,000
19. [MCD] Lunar: The Silver Star - 109,000
20. Phantasy Star II - 108,000
21. Streets of Rage 2 - 104,000
22. Castle of Illusion Starring Mickey Mouse - 100,000
23. Disney's Aladdin - 96,000
24. Michael Jackson's Moonwalker - 95,000
25. [MCD] Night Trap - 92,000
26. Fatal Fury - 89,000
27. Gunstar Heroes - 89,000
28. Magical Taruruuto-kun - 88,000
29. [MCD] Lunar: Eternal Blue - 84,000
30. J.League Pro Striker - 84,000
31. Advanced Daisenryaku: Deutsch Dengeki Sakusen - 83,000
32. Golden Axe - 82,000
33. Dragon Ball Z: Buyuu Retsuden - 80,000
34. Ghouls 'n Ghosts - 78,000
35. Langrisser - 78,000
36. Yuu Yuu Hakusho: Makyou Touitsusen - 77,000
37. Streets of Rage 3 - 76,000
38. [MCD] Seima Densetsu 3x3 Eyes - 75,000
39. Powerball - 74,000
40. Sonic & Knuckles - 73,000
41. [MCD] Mansion of Hidden Souls - 70,000
42. Ecco the Dolphin - 70,000
43. [MCD] Record of Lodoss War: Eiyuu Sensou - 66,000
44. J.League Pro Striker Kanzen-ban - 65,000
45. Super Monaco GP - 64,000
46. [MCD] Heavenly Symphony: Formula One Championship 1992 - 63,000
47. [MCD] Gambler Jiko Chuushin-ha 2 - 60,000
48. Crusader of Centy - 59,000
49. Fighting Masters - 55,000
50. Thunder Force IV - 53,000

Source: https://www.gavas.jp/user_data/megadrive_game_ranking.php

>>10156585
puyo puyo being #1 is surprising when it was on both pc engine and super famicom. puyo puyo also outsold every single pc engine game

also, for a console with a large number of shooters (not pce levels but still), it's weird to only see slipheed and thunderforce 4

>>10156198
Power Pro still rakes in cash today.

>>10156585
Absolutely crazy to read this list and realize
1. The Genesis beat the SNES in America while being this bottom of the barrel in its home country
2. The Saturns highest selling game in America still wouldnt crack the top 40 of this list
Sega is such a weird company historically.

>>10154535
Super Famicom has no gaems.

>>10156807
If you frame the Genesis's success in the west as the anomaly then it all makes sense. Sega fell ass backwards into good luck for four or five years thanks to a combination of factors not in Sega's control like NEC shitting the bed with the TG16 and some only tangentially in Sega's control like Mortal Kombat being a killer app and them allowing blood while Nintendo didn't. Plus EA's sports games being way better on Genesis in general. They had a flash in the pan window of success in the middle of an otherwise unimpressive console business.

>>10154402
>Mario Cart
Source? How the fuck am I supposed to trust a list that can't even get titles right?

>>10156980
stfu butchman

>>10156986
No

>>10156585
cool, a megacd list

>>10155657
tomb radier, driver and racing games are good.

>>10156279
see OP: >>10154402
>Japan total: 1.7M, USA total: 4.7M
and
>>10154538
>FW: 1.8 M, LTD: 3.8 M
Admittedly I have no idea what FW and LTD means, though. I assume it's only counting Japan sales? Don't think DQ7 sold too much outside of Japan, though.

>>10154402
Reminder that n64 sold worse in japan than saturn. What a shitshow of a system.

>>10155657
I can't not read this in Michael Caine's voice and it's eerie.

>>10158150
First Week and Lifetime To Date, I think.

>>10158168
but N64 have way more million seller software.
console wars are a mental illness anyway. Both N64 and Saturn did well, PS1 just pierced the industry with Sony being able to burn money on advertising and selling hardware at a loss, thanks to owning the CD pressing factories and, well, being a multinational corpo.

unitedkingdom number one in christmas from 1984 until 2007.

>>10156297
>or a 10.0 software attach rate because 90% of owners buy 1 game and 10% of owners buy 100
Math is slightly off. In that case, the attach rate would be 10.9. If you want to maintain the 10.0 attach rate, then the 90% of the owners shouldn't buy a single game, while the other 10% would buy the 100 games each.

I know, it's an "ackchyually moment". Just my autism kicking off.

>>10156807
>being this bottom of the barrel in its home country

pc engine games sales figures are hard to come by, but based on this list, puyo puyo managed to outsell every single pce game

>>10159135
Yeah, I'm pretty bad at math. I'm just trying to make sense of these facts.

>>10154457
>1. Virtua Fighter 2 - 1.3 million
>2. Sega Rally Championship | 600,000

>>10155914
>Japanese attach rate of 16.71

We know that the Saturn sold 5.8 million consoles in Japan. For all of this to be true (Virtua Fighter 2 sells nearly one for every four Saturn sales and then a very rapid decline right after that to the point where only five games broke half a million + a 16.71 software attach rate which is quite high) then it must mean that there was a gross imbalance of which Saturn owners were buying games and which were using it just for Virtua Fighter.

The Wii ran into the same thing. It has a software attach rate of 9.05. But we all know that it wasn't most Wii owners buying 9 games a piece. A shit ton of Wii sales were to grandparents who just wanted to play bowling. It didn't hurt Nintendo much because they sold a billion of them all for profit but it's demonstrative that a small percentage of people can subsidize a rather large group of owners who only buy one game. I'm curious what the percentage of Japanese Saturn owners who only bought Virtua Fighter and then shelved the thing. I imagine it must be pretty high or else there'd be way more million sellers just out of pure volume.

British vidya sales - top 25 in 2001

This implies Goldeneye and perfect dark didn't even sell 80,000 copies in Japan. What a pile of shit.

>>10159398
Math anon here again. I'm starting to doubt the attach rate data. For the sake of argument, let's assume it's correct. Then, we would have the following:

>5.8 million Saturn consoles sold in Japan
>1.7 million Virtua Fighter 2 copies sold in Japan (according to Wikipedia)
>Statistically, it means that for every 10 Saturn owners, 3 of them has Virtua Fighter 2
>Attach rate in Japan is assumed to be 16.71
>Statistically, it means approximately 96.9 million games sold there
>Of that sum, Virtua Fighter 2 represents less than 2%
>There's a 98% gap of sales that need to be filled
>However, Virtua Fighter 2 is, by a long margin, the most successful game in Japan. The runner-up doesn't come even half as close, with subsequent ranking entries quickly dwindling their sales number
>Would the remaining games amount to more than 95 million sales?

I don't think so, but it's only a quick math. Numbers would be much more reasonable if the attach rate was actually lower, which I suspect is the truth.

>>10159649
Software attach ratio is a relatively bullshit metric because when it's represented as a simple ratio the attach rate ends up going down the better a console does simply by virtue of the console sales being the denominator.

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Software_tie_ratio

Sort the chart by attach ratio and it shows what's happening. The most successful consoles ever tend to gravitate between 9 and 10. Then you have the Master System which is a fucking 20.9. The Saturn having the second highest software attach rate is not a point in it's favor. It's actually indicative of a problem.

>>10160084
Just like "blast processing", I think it's a marketing gimmick, but tailored towards softhouses, as a mean to say "make titles for our console! See the attach ratio, our players buy lots of games!"

>>10154407
I support this

>>10158150
Dum dum, DQ7 sold 3.9M in Japan and SM64 did 1.7M also in Japan.

>>10160740
apparently the west like platforms more than japs.

>>10160084
Genesis is also at 16? but that one was quite successfull
Or are they counting those 6in1 carts as 6 seperate sales

>>10154402
UK Top 10 most selling on christmas 1992-1998

>>10156824
Sir you have segacope

>>10155239
why did they hate medievil?

>>10161584
Hate to see it

>>10161584
>>10161604

>>10160765
I'm thinking once a console gets to 10 or higher it suggests niche appeal. "But the Genesis wasn't niche." In terms of the whole world, it kinda was. It was an extremely large niche of "the west" but the Mega Drive was a borderline flop in Japan. Since software attach ratio is generally software sold divided by consoles sold, the consoles it failed to sell in Japan raised the attach ratio because the games were doing gangbusters in America. Given how ratios work, a small swing in the denominator has a dramatic effect on the results.

>>10161604
Bold statements were made by reads in letters magazine just answer their more "hothead" stuff in print issues. But I tend to believe whole Europe loved Medievil at least the first one.

>>10161726
>I'm thinking once a console gets to 10 or higher it suggests niche appeal.
I don't know if this is enough to make it true, but it does make sense. Considering successful consoles owned by normies I befriend or just know, I see they buy just a few games. One of them has just two games for years now.

>>10161584
>Genesis does, but Nintendont give a damn, now genesis is on Nintendo consoles.
>It took less than a year after the Dreamcasts was discontinued for sonic to appear on Gameboy advance
>That means that sonic advance was in development while the Dreamcast was still for sale.
>Sonic advanced was showcased at e3 2000
>Planet dreamcast at e3 2001 showcased numerous dreamcast games that were still to be released
>Sega Megacuck

>>10161857
It's entirely possible there's no pattern and software attach ratio is complete bollocks for telling you anything meaningful about a console. The ones that do gangbusters like Wii and PS2 will have a relatively healthy ratio through pure volume but as you hit the edge cases of consoles that are very niche, consoles that tanked, consoles that only did well in one region, etc. the numbers start looking funny.

>>10161947
E3 3001*

>>10161957
Fuck me holy shit
*E3 2001*

>>10161584
I don't look like this, but I do all of this because the Genesis was better

In Japan, N64 is considered an obscure and elite patrician console, much like how weeb zoomers pretend to like Saturn to be quirky. They consider Banjo Kazooie and Donkey Kong 64 to be masterpieces

>>10161960
>He doesn't have clairvoyance powers to know Dreamcast will make a comeback in the year 3000
ngmi

>>10156105
The nightmare I expected

>>10161591
Because it told the truth

>>10162423
Y3K sounding pretty based right now ngl.

>>10162034
This characterization is false.

Also BK is considered a masterpiece somewhat in the west. DK64 is hit or miss, many love it and many have major issues with it.

>>10155258
I had half of those games. If you had a barly minimum wage job you could afford a platinum game a week.

>>10162947
Well, I just was a kid back then.

British vidya sales - top 25 in 2002

>>10154402
Mario, Zelda....

>>10154546
>Rockman.exe 1/Battle Network 1 isn't in the top 50
No wonder it was so much more expensive than the other games in the series for a long time. I knew it was printed less but I had no idea it was this much less.
Thankfully it looks like the price has been dropping since the Switch release. I'm happy I waited instead of buying when it was $50.
My copy just arrived in the mail this week. It was the last one I needed to complete my set. I'm looking forward to playing through all of them again.

Also interesting to see that Rhythm Heaven 1 bombed during its first week but ended up selling great later.

>>10161584
what's pretty sad is there are lots of people who do this with real life wars like the civil war

>>10161584
Be honest, from about 2002 to about 2018 the Snes was the darling of the casual retro community and could absolutely do no wrong. Especially after that stupid AVGN video (now knowing he doesn't even really have an interest in gaming). Later more people discovered sega and realized that snes nuts were bullshitting all along.

>>10156585
Ouch on Lunar 2, playing it you can tell it would have been expensive to make. It was a high profile release in America so maybe got some decent numbers there.

>>10155914
Seems like a huge numbers of games for what was called a dead console, they could have just kept it going with that profit.

>>10166672
>Be honest, from about 2002 to about 2018 the Snes was the darling of the casual retro community and could absolutely do no wrong.
Maybe. And?
It's still ridiculous that there are people on this site who seethe just when people say anything positive about SNES. imagine having SNES living your head rent free so much that you just can't take anyone liking it.
>Later more people discovered sega and realized that snes nuts were bullshitting all along.
Let's tell it like it is. On the one side, you have sega nuts who seethe about SNES like
>it only had jarpigs
>it had no gaems
>mahjong and racing simulators
>it was for babbies
>SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES
on the other, you have somewhat smug elitist tendies who believe that Genesis only had sports games and was basically a console for basketball Americans and kids of divorced parents. these also tend to believe Nintendo invented every genre and SNES was pinnacle of human evolution.
both are obviously wrong. that's what console wars do to your brains. however, one side is constantly butthurt about the other and seethes about at them all the time. can you guess which?
it's 2023, you can stop with the console wars and just appreciate both platforms.

>>10166672
>Be honest, from about 2002 to about 2018 the Snes was the darling of the casual retro community and could absolutely do no wrong.
Maybe. And?
It's still ridiculous that there are people on this site who seethe just when people say anything positive about SNES. imagine having SNES living your head rent free so much that you just can't take anyone liking it.
>Later more people discovered sega and realized that snes nuts were bullshitting all along.
Let's tell it like it is. On the one side, you have sega nuts who seethe about SNES like
>it only had jarpigs
>it had no gaems
>mahjong and horse racing sims
>it was for babies
>SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES SNES
on the other, you have smug elitist tendies who believe that Genesis only had sports games and was basically a console for basketball Americans and kids of divorced parents. these also tend to believe Nintendo invented every genre and SNES was the pinnacle of human evolution.
both are obviously wrong. that's what console wars do to your brains. however, one side is constantly butthurt about the other and seethes about at them all the time. can you guess which?
it's 2023, you can stop with the console wars and just appreciate both platforms.

>>10155643
Yeah crazy, best game on the GBA too.
Well maybe Emerald.

>>10166762
>>mahjong and horse racing sims
I'm really glad this stuck, I just made it as a silly observation with imports because all anyone talks about is magical popn lmao

>>10154460
There was much more choice on Saturn despite selling a bit more than N64. When you but a Saturn it's mainly for the sports games, arcade ports, RPG's and some VN's here and there while Nintendo games were the main reason to get a N64

If I was to guess what game the japs are nuts for, I'd go with Dragon Quest, but it seems the real deal is Puyo Puyo. Who'd know?

>>10154431
The Japanese really loved the DKC games so it's no surprise they rushed to buy DK64
You can't rent games there like you can in the west so it's not like they could figure out it was shit beforehand

>>10166953
I'll take an educated guess and say it's the one with the cute little girls.

>>10154542
Do you have the dreamcast and xbox ones?

>best-selling boxed (physical) games that were sold during 2003

>UK TOP SELLING GAMES 2003

>>10154460
It's actually not true when you actually add the numbers up. Saturn may not have had as many games breaking 1 Million, but it had far more games selling and hitting sales charts overall than the N64. For example when you look at the Famitsu charts for the N64 it has about 87 games total hitting the charts over it's entire life, Saturn has about 462. When you add up all the Famitsu chart numbers it's about 24 Million games sold for the N64, and about 35 Million Sold for the Saturn. Going off of shipped numbers it's about 39 Million for N64, and about 54 Million for Saturn.

The Famitsu Data shows the total numbers of games added up for each week they were charting in Famitsu. When a game stopped charting it's numbers stopped being tracked. So this is why some games show less than what was officially reported years later, because it doesn't track the slower sales after the initial release. That's where the shipped numbers come in to try and fill the gaps. The Famitsu data can be found here:
https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

>>10155904
That's because Saturn had actual third party support so consumers had more choice and variety to choose from.

>>10154457
>38. Shinseiki Evangelion (Reprint) - 210,000
.
.
.
>44. Shinseiki Evangelion - 190,000
I hate it when they do that.

>>10169872
>That's because Saturn had actual third party support so consumers had more choice and variety to choose from.
Some of that is true but it also shows that even at the high end games weren't able to crack half a million. If tastes were so diffused that every game was capping out at 100k then that's evidence in favor of Saturn being the playground for niche tastes. The PS1 also had a huge and diverse library but you don't see sales lists like "1: Gran Turismo-10,000,000, 2: Tekken 3-400,000, 3: Final Fantasy VII-300,000."

For the Saturn list to make sense a lot of those Virtua Fighter sales would have had to been made by people who bought nearly nothing else.

>>10166883
>only one shooter in the top 30, and its a mega cd game
>puyo puyo outsold everything, despite also being on super famicom and pc engine
>sonic 3 outsold sonic 2

this list is wild

>>10166762
you also have idiots who believe the pc engine is only rondo + shooters

>>10169926
It also shows why Sega was in a jam. That Japanese N64 list isn't THAT weird to a western eye. A few games here and there but its largely consistent. Meanwhile SoJ and SoA were in VERY different situations. There was no one size fits all solution.

>>10169915
>that's evidence in favor of Saturn being the playground for niche tastes
It's not really niche tastes, it's just a healthy 3rd party market providing competition. N64's third party market was a bloodbath with less to choose from, but with a similar size install base. So it makes sense those first party games are going to sell more when they have pretty much no competition. Here's a break down of third party sales for companies that published games on both systems. You can see in most cases Saturn is selling more software overall than the N64.

There's only really 2 exceptions, Chunsoft, and Konami. In Konami's case we can see there's an awful lot of sports games in that list. When we look at Soccer games, Baseball Games, etc. on the N64 in Japan, we can see that Konami almost had a full monopoly on these games and they sold well because of that. On the Saturn however we had a lot more companies making sports games, including Sega. And with that competition, Konami's sports titles don't sell nearly as well.

So in general, the Saturn was a much better system in Japan for third party software sales even though both had a similar size install base. Sure Nintendo may have had more first party games breaking over 1 million sold, but they also had less games selling and charting in general. Nintendo had about 43 games they published for the N64 chart, while Sega had over 140 that they published chart on the Saturn. So it's not a case of whales or anything like that, it's simply that there were a lot more games available on Saturn for people to choose from, so sales are more spread out.

>The PS1 also had a huge and diverse library but you don't see sales lists like "1: Gran Turismo-10,000,000, 2: Tekken 3-400,000, 3: Final Fantasy VII-300,000."
Because PS1 had over 3x the install base. Either divide the PS1 numbers by about 3 or multiple the Saturn numbers by about 3 and they'll look similar.

>>10170082
>Because PS1 had over 3x the install base. Either divide the PS1 numbers by about 3 or multiple the Saturn numbers by about 3 and they'll look similar.
But they don't. Sega Rally at #2 on Saturn sold 600,000. Multiply that by 3 and it's 1.8 million, which is only around the 10th best PS1 game. I know its not fair to compare the Saturn to the PS1. Clearly it was way less successful. But that's kind of the point here. People like to act as if the Saturn was a Japanese darling but it clearly wasn't if it was effectively in a draw with the N64, typically considered a non-performer over there.

>>10170268
>But they don't. Sega Rally at #2 on Saturn sold 600,000. Multiply that by 3 and it's First of all according to Famitsu Sega Rally sold 760,000. Multiplied by 3 that's about 2,328,000 copies sold. Which would put it around the same as Gran Turismo on the PS1 which is at number 6 according to Famitsu data.

Secondly almost half of the top 10 PS1 games are Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest which skews things quite a bit along with the fact that PS1 lasted longer and has about 3x the amount of games charting as Saturn has. So take that into consideration as well when doing the comparison.

>>10170268
>But they don't. Sega Rally at #2 on Saturn sold 600,000. Multiply that by 3 and it's 1.8 million, which is only around the 10th best PS1 game.
First of all according to Famitsu Sega Rally sold 760,000. Multiplied by 3 that's about 2,328,000 copies sold. Which would put it around the same as Gran Turismo on the PS1 which is at number 6 according to Famitsu data.

Secondly almost half of the top 10 PS1 games are Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest which skews things quite a bit along with the fact that PS1 lasted longer and has about 3x the amount of games charting as Saturn has. So take that into consideration as well when doing the comparison.

>>10170296
I did exactly what you told me to do and multiplied the numbers by three in the chart provided in this thread and now you're moving the goal posts. What exactly are you trying to say? That the Saturn was leaps and bounds more successful in Japan than the N64?

I think the takeaway is that both the Saturn and N64 were stable in Japan. They took different paths to arrive there: one selling a lot of variety of games at smaller numbers and the other selling a smaller variety of games but a shit ton of a bunch of them. Whether one was more successful than the other is arguable but they were indisputably in a similar range of success to each other.

>>10170624
don't argue with the Saturn schizo, just shake your head in disappointment and ignore him.
Look for posts containing "Saturn famitsu " on an archive site if you ever get bored and want to see how obsessed he is. Or just bring up Quake 2.

>>10170624
>I did exactly what you told me to do and multiplied the numbers by three in the chart provided in this thread and now you're moving the goal posts.
I said the numbers look similar if you account for the difference in install base. I figured you'd be intelligent enough to realize Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are outliers in the PS1 charts that heavily skew things.
> What exactly are you trying to say? That the Saturn was leaps and bounds more successful in Japan than the N64?
In terms of Software sold for it's install base size yes. That's exactly what I was saying. The post you were replying to was literally talking about Saturn vs N64. You're the one that brought up PS1 so all I said was you need to factor in the install base when doing that comparison. The comparison of Famtisu sales data works for Saturn vs N64 in a 1:1 manner because they had similar size install bases.

>>10170838
>Ignore the person posting actual numbers and evidence!
I'm sorry if actual numbers and evidence offends you. If you don't like it then stop making this same thread every couple of weeks.

>>10171830
Your evidence is extrapolating or outright making up data figures based entirely on a sales chart from a magazine because you are utterly obsessed with two 25 year old video games consoles sales figures and public reception in a foreign country.
You're so deranged you're arguing with actual sales figures, just because you have convincrd yourself the Saturn was a monothlic success, and you cannot accept it was a failed niche product.

>>10171843
>Your evidence is extrapolating or outright making up data figures based entirely on a sales chart from a magazine
If you have better data to use then provide it. Otherwise the Famitsu charts and Sega and Nintendo's Fiscal year reports are the best data we have to go off of when discussing this.
> because you are utterly obsessed with two 25 year old video games consoles sales figures and public reception in a foreign country.
No, it's just that I don't like seeing people spread misinformation. The meme that keeps getting posted is that the N64 sold more software in Japan than the Saturn, but the actual sales data doesn't back that claim up. I'm sorry if this simple truth upsets you.
>You're so deranged you're arguing with actual sales figures, just because you have convincrd yourself the Saturn was a monothlic success, and you cannot accept it was a failed niche product.
I'm not the one getting my panties in a bunch because someone posted actual sales data. I'm not saying the Saturn was a monolithic success, I'm just saying the N64 didn't sell more software in Japan.

>>10171830
The numbers don't look that similar even if you take out FF and DQ though. If you want to say the install base makes any comparisons moot then say that. Don't ask people to multiply numbers and then get pissy when they do.

Famitsu's sales charts are very lenient when it comes to "best sellers." I'm pretty sure you can get on those charts with numbers as low as 15,000 units. Those games will be pretty low on the list but it makes any claims of "X number of games charted" suspect because a lot of bullshit niche games will chart. The Saturn's library was indisputably larger than the N64's so more games charting is practically tautological.

>>10171959
The numbers don't look that similar even if you take out FF and DQ though.
You see a similar kind of drop off. Those top 5 Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games are the equivalent of Virtua Fighter 2. When you go from those to the next big game on the list, Resident Evil 2, the total sales drops by about 1.5 Million copies sold. Divide that by 3 it's sales by 3 and you get a number fairly close to Sega Rally on the Saturn chart. Go to the next one, Gran Turismo, divide by 3 and again you're close to Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, etc.

The point is people make a big deal about the drop off from Virtua Fighter 2 to Sega Rally on the Saturn chart, but the reality is the PS1 has a similarly big drop from the Square Enix stuff to the next game in the list. People just tend to not notice it because the numbers are still above 1 million.

>>10171971
Sales are sales. And again these games aren't really niche. In many cases the third party games on Saturn are charting well above 15k and in many cases breaking over 100k. They're big name RPGs, Arcade ports, Fighting Games, licensed titles, sports games, etc. If you add everything you you get this breakdown:

Saturn 1st Party:
17.5 Million
Saturn 3rd Party:
18.5 Million

N64 1st Party:
21 Million
N64 3rd Party:
3 Million

N64 sold more 1st party software, but Saturn absolutely destroyed it with 3rd party software. And that's why it sold more software in Japan and why it had a bigger library. 3rd party software actually sold on the Saturn, it didn't on the N64.

>>10171959
>The numbers don't look that similar even if you take out FF and DQ though.
You see a similar kind of drop off. Those top 5 Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games are the equivalent of Virtua Fighter 2. When you go from those to the next big game on the list, Resident Evil 2, the total sales drops by about 1.5 Million copies sold. Divide that by 3 it's sales by 3 and you get a number fairly close to Sega Rally on the Saturn chart. Go to the next one, Gran Turismo, divide by 3 and again you're close to Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, etc.

The point is people make a big deal about the drop off from Virtua Fighter 2 to Sega Rally on the Saturn chart, but the reality is the PS1 has a similarly big drop from the Square Enix stuff to the next game in the list. People just tend to not notice it because the numbers are still above 1 million.

>>10171971
Sales are sales. And again these games aren't really niche. In many cases the third party games on Saturn are charting well above 15k and in many cases breaking over 100k. They're big name RPGs, Arcade ports, Fighting Games, licensed titles, sports games, etc. If you add everything you you get this breakdown:

Saturn 1st Party:
17.5 Million
Saturn 3rd Party:
18.5 Million

N64 1st Party:
21 Million
N64 3rd Party:
3 Million

N64 sold more 1st party software, but Saturn absolutely destroyed it with 3rd party software. And that's why it sold more software in Japan and why it had a bigger library. 3rd party software actually sold on the Saturn, it didn't on the N64.

>>10171959
>The numbers don't look that similar even if you take out FF and DQ though.
You see a similar kind of drop off. Those top 5 Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games are the equivalent of Virtua Fighter 2. When you go from those to the next big game on the list, Resident Evil 2, the total sales drops by about 1.5 Million copies sold. Divide that by 3 and you get a number fairly close to Sega Rally on the Saturn chart. Go to the next one, Gran Turismo, divide by 3 and again you're close to Sega Rally, Virtua Cop, etc.

The point is people make a big deal about the drop off from Virtua Fighter 2 to Sega Rally on the Saturn chart, but the reality is the PS1 has a similarly big drop from the Square Enix stuff to the next game in the list. People just tend to not notice it because the numbers are still above 1 million.

>>10171971
Sales are sales. And again these games aren't really niche. In many cases the third party games on Saturn are charting well above 15k and in many cases breaking over 100k. They're big name RPGs, Arcade ports, Fighting Games, licensed titles, sports games, etc. If you add everything you you get this breakdown:

Saturn 1st Party:
17.5 Million
Saturn 3rd Party:
18.5 Million

N64 1st Party:
21 Million
N64 3rd Party:
3 Million

N64 sold more 1st party software, but Saturn absolutely destroyed it with 3rd party software. And that's why it sold more software in Japan and why it had a bigger library. 3rd party software actually sold on the Saturn, it didn't on the N64.

>>10172020
>N64 sold more 1st party software, but Saturn absolutely destroyed it with 3rd party software. And that's why it sold more software in Japan and why it had a bigger library. 3rd party software actually sold on the Saturn, it didn't on the N64.
Right but the respective console sales were still similar so roughly as many people who wanted Saturns also wanted N64s, give a couple hundred thousand in Saturn's favor, which is de minimis considering both machines were in the 5+ million range. Nobody is disputing that Saturn sold more software but they were selling that software to about as many people as the N64 was selling it's software to. We can say that Saturn owners were more interested in Saturn software in terms of volume but it wasn't doing much to generate a shit ton more interest in the Saturn itself. Sega wasn't drawing a whole lot more people to the Saturn by virtue of all that third party support than Nintendo was drawing to the N64 without it.

>>10172034
The gist of what I'm saying is that the N64 was within striking distance of the Saturn in Japan despite the massive handicap of a fraction of the library and little third party support. The Saturn had all the advantages of expansive third party support and still couldn't pull away from the N64. And this is in a territory that was the N64's weakest and the Saturn's strongest. This is not a good situation to be in if you're Sega. What I'm saying is that the Saturn should have ass fucked the N64, which everyone seems to agree did pretty poorly in Japan, and the fact that it didn't is a sign of weakness for Sega. That the Saturn wasn't nearly as beloved in Japan as western fans like to think.

>>10172034
The N64 on the didn't really sell nearly as quickly as Saturn did in it's best years. It sells about 2 Million in it's first year, then has 2 more years of 1 Million each, then slowly limps it's way up to about 5.5 Million over the next 2-3 years. Saturn on the other hand was showing growth each year until 1997. It sold 500k in 1994, 1.7 Million in 1995, and another 2.75 Million in 1996. Then in 1997 it stalls out at around 450k and another 250k in 1998. That's not everyone buying it at launch for Virtua Fighter as some people try to claim. It's evidence that there was a good system going and strong growth but then something catastrophic happening.

That catastrophic event, is the fact the Dreamcast was announced in 1997 and stated it would release in 1998. This made it so consumers weren't going to buy a Saturn when the Dreamcast was right around the corner, and it caused developers to quickly wrap up games in development or shift them over to the new console. If that hadn't happened it probably would have continued to grow.

>>10172048
>The gist of what I'm saying is that the N64 was within striking distance of the Saturn in Japan
But it really wasn't. It didn't get to that point until years after the Saturn was dead. In 1997 Saturn was at over 5 Million systems, N64 was barely over 3 Million. Sure N64 came out 2 years later than Saturn, but N64 wasn't showing increasing sales in it's first 2-3 years like Saturn did, it was showing decreasing sales.

>That the Saturn wasn't nearly as beloved in Japan as western fans like to think.
I'd say the Saturn was well received in Japan, the issue is Sega of Japan killed it off for the Dreamcast because the system wasn't selling well in any other region.

>>10172034
The N64 didn't really sell nearly as quickly as Saturn did in it's best years though. It sells about 2 Million in it's first year, then has 2 more years of 1 Million each, then slowly limps it's way up to about 5.5 Million over the next 2-3 years. Saturn on the other hand was showing growth each year until 1997. It sold 500k in 1994, 1.7 Million in 1995, and another 2.75 Million in 1996. Then in 1997 it stalls out at around 450k and another 250k in 1998. That's not everyone buying it at launch for Virtua Fighter as some people try to claim. It's evidence that there was a good system going and strong growth but then something catastrophic happening.

That catastrophic event, is the fact the Dreamcast was announced in 1997 and stated it would release in 1998. This made it so consumers weren't going to buy a Saturn when the Dreamcast was right around the corner, and it caused developers to quickly wrap up games in development or shift them over to the new console. If that hadn't happened it probably would have continued to grow.

>>10172048
>The gist of what I'm saying is that the N64 was within striking distance of the Saturn in Japan
But it really wasn't. It didn't get to that point until years after the Saturn was dead. In 1997 Saturn was at over 5 Million systems, N64 was barely over 3 Million. Sure N64 came out 2 years later than Saturn, but N64 wasn't showing increasing sales in it's first 2-3 years like Saturn did, it was showing decreasing sales.

>That the Saturn wasn't nearly as beloved in Japan as western fans like to think.
I'd say the Saturn was well received in Japan, the issue is Sega of Japan killed it off for the Dreamcast because the system wasn't selling well in any other region.

>>10172068
>But it really wasn't. It didn't get to that point until years after the Saturn was dead.
That's a pretty disingenuous argument though isn't it? Considering the Saturn had a two year head start. They both lasted the same amount of time, just with a two year offset applied. When the N64 launched it had sold zero units up against however many the Saturn sold by then, which offsets the years at the end when the N64 was still selling but the Saturn was dead. It becomes a wash.

The N64 entered a way more hostile market than the Saturn. The PS1 was in full swing by then in all territories. It had a lot of ground to make up. The Saturn and PS1 launched almost at the same time in Japan. Being like "well, the N64 didn't sell quite as quickly right away..." ignores the very different landscapes. And it's not like Sega vanished during the last two years of the N64's lifespan, either. Suddenly it was competing against the Dreamcast, a next gen machine. It's not like everyone backed off after 1998 and was like "okay, everyone, let's let the N64 catch up. Nobody sell any consoles for a bit."

>>10172076
N64's Japanese Sales Breakdown like this:

96-97: 2 Million.
97-98 : 1 Million
98-99: 1 Million
99-00: 940k
00-01: 200k
01-02: 50k

Saturn the breakdown is this:
1994: 500k
1995: 1.7 Million.
1996: 2.75 Million
1997: 450k
1998: 250k

After 3 years on the Market, Saturn was at almost 5 Million, N64 was at about 4 Million. Saturn then dies off due to the Dreamcast being announced, N64 get's one more good year, and then dies off. The argument you're trying to make is that N64's first party software was driving sales up to reaching the Saturn's numbers. But we don't see increasing sales from N64 year after year. We see decreasing sales on the N64. The Software isn't driving it, it's just slowly petering out.

>>10172085
It's not that the N64 didn't sell as quickly right way. It's that you don't see increasing hardware sales each year, you instead see them decreasing each year. There's never a year that has higher sales than the year before.

If anything it seems that the argument people try to make that a bunch of people bought the Saturn at launch for one game and then it died out seems to fit more with the N64 situation. You see an initial burst of sales early on for the N64, most likely for stuff like Mario 64, and then it slowly peters out over the next 5 years.

>>10172094
I'm talking total sales. Don't get it twisted: people absolutely bought the N64 "for" Mario 64. I'm not making the argument that the N64 was stronger than the Saturn, I'm saying it wasn't weaker. Which, again, is a bit of a black eye for Sega considering that Japan was it's best territory. Imagine getting a two mile head start in a race and then the guy is suddenly breathing down your neck because Mario 64 came out. That two year advantage to build an install base should have made that impossible. That it happened the way it did shows the Saturn wasn't all that strong. It was stable for sure but it wasn't on easy street either.

>>10172094
>then it slowly peters out over the next 5 years.
Also, what petering?

>97-98 : 1 Million
>98-99: 1 Million
>99-00: 940k

That's about a million per year for the heart of it's lifespan.

>>10172109
The problem is you're completely ignoring the elephant in the room. The Dreamcast was announced in 1997, that effectively hit the brakes on Saturn. If the plug hadn't been pulled prematurely, it probably would have continued to sell similarly to how it was trending up to that point.

>Imagine getting a two mile head start in a race and then the guy is suddenly breathing down your neck because Mario 64 came out.
That's not really what happened though. N64 came out in the latter half of 1996. Saturn by this point is close to 5 Million sold already. In that first year N64 sells 2 million, getting to 2/5 of Saturn's install base. In the following year Saturn now has had the plug pulled and sells only about 450k. But N64 doesn't really increase it's sales from the previous year, it instead only sells half of what it sold. Sure, it's 1 Million vs 450k, but Saturn is now at about 5.5 Million, and N64 is at 3 Million. The following year the N64 still doesn't really sell any better. It sells another 1 Million to Saturn's 250k. Now it's at 4 Million vs 5.75 Million. The next year it sells 940k, so now it's 4.9 Million to Saturn's 5.75 Million. The following year N64 sells another 200k, so now we're at 5.1 Million. The following year another 50k.

So we're not really seeing N64 matching Saturn in sales during it's same years on the market or even in sales speed. We see an initial burst for Mario 64, and then it just slows down. It took it about 4-5 years to do what Saturn did in 2-3. Which considering Saturn had it's plug pulled less than a year after the N64 came out, that's pretty bad. The only reason N64 even appears to catch up is because Sega pulled the plug on Saturn.

>>10172118
Selling half what you did the first year isn't growth. It's slowly decreasing sales over time. That's also known as petering out.

>>10172139
>If the plug hadn't been pulled prematurely, it probably would have continued to sell similarly to how it was trending up to that point.
I don't know. Maybe but back then console lifespans were about five years before the next gen showed up so its not like Sega was out of line. Its not like the Saturn was the first or last system to be in a position where the next gen was announced while it was still being sold. Did Saturn sales tank after the Dreamcast announcement any more dramatically than SNES sales did upon the N64's announcement, for example?

>>10166889
There's only a handful of pachinko games on the SEGA systems compared to the Nintendo systems. I'm also entertained by Derby Stallion's persistence, outselling Zelda LttP on SNES and even outselling Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu and that remake of Link's Awakening on the Switch in 2020.
https://nintendoeverything.com/japans-top-100-best-selling-games-of-2020-revealed/
Tendies wish they could make the horse racing curse go away.

>>10154402
jesus fucking christ Mario 64 is an exceptional video game but isn't 98 fucking dollars a bit high
also why was OOT cheaper

>>10154402
I know this is late, but is there a list of best selling gamecube games in japan?

>>10170082
cool more image like this one, per publisher.

>>10172165
It's more that you should see a kind of bell curve with yearly sales for any healthy console. So it's a bit low the first year or so as it gradually builds from your early adopters. Then you should see a bit of a surge as it becomes more affordable and accessible with more games and more people start buying it, then towards the end it should start to taper off. You see that with the PS1, PS2, the SNES, the Genesis, the NES, the PC-Engine, etc.

Saturn you see this curve starting, but then it abruptly gets cut off. N64 on the other hand you see something completely different. You see a slow downhill line. You see this in other systems as well like the Dreamcast, Gamecube, Wii U, etc. This pretty much shows that there's not building excitement about your system, just a few people buying it for a few games as it becomes cheaper.

> Did Saturn sales tank after the Dreamcast announcement any more dramatically than SNES sales did upon the N64's announcement, for example?

They go off a cliff the year it's released, but the year it was announced was a bit earlier, but that's kind of the key detail here. N64 was announced later in the SNES's life and it wasn't due out for years. It was more a "We have this in the pipeline, but it wont be out for years so for now buy the SNES." Dreamcast on the other hand was announced within the 2nd to 3rd year of the Saturn's life and was stated it would be out the following year. Developers were clearly shifting focus and new releases started to dry up as a result. So why would people keep buying it when all the new stuff was going to the new console due out the next year? Just wait. This would be like if Nintendo announced the N64 in 1992 and said it would be out in 1993.

I told you not to respond to him, now we get yet another thread shit up by this retard making up sales figures and posting bullshit.
The Dreamcast wasn't officially announced until May of 1998 btw. The Saturns poor sales in 1997 are because the system itself ceased production entirely due to the massive losses they were taking on manufacturing, the VF boom died, and FF7 came out and killed the console.
Stop responding to this schizo retard and letting him ruin threads, he's genuinely mentally ill.

>>10154402
Patricians

>>10154402
what shit taste the japs had lol

>>10172254
Top 50 best-selling GameCube games in Japan:
1. Super Smash Bros. Melee - 1,510,000
2. Mario Party 4 - 902,000
3. Mario Kart: Double Dash!! - 825,000
4. Super Mario Sunshine - 789,000
5. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 742,000
6. Mario Party 5 - 697,000
7. Pokémon Colosseum - 656,000
8. Animal Crossing - 641,000
9. Mario Party 6 - 527,000
10. Pikmin - 502,000
11. Pikmin 2 - 469,000
12. Mario Party 7 - 454,000
13. Donkey Konga - 427,000
14. Kirby Air Ride - 422,000
15. Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen! 3 - 404,000
16. WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$! - 400,000
17. Resident Evil Zero - 400,000
18. Naruto: Clash of Ninja 2 - 396,000
19. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - 395,000
20. Doubutsu no Mori e+ - 386,000
21. Mario Power Tennis - 377,000
22. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles - 354,000
23. Luigi's Mansion - 348,000
24. Naruto: Gekitou Ninja Taisen! 4 - 314,000
25. Tales of Symphonia - 311,000
26. Resident Evil - 267,000
27. Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness - 265,000
28. Star Fox Adventures - 259,000
29. From TV Animation One Piece: Treasure Battle! - 251,000
30. Pokémon Box: Ruby and Sapphire - 231,000
31. Mario Superstar Baseball - 229,000
32. Resident Evil 4 - 220,000
33. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat - 220,000
34. Star Fox Assault - 195,000
35. Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour - 192,000
36. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle - 192,000
37. Super Mario Strikers - 191,000
38. Naruto: Clash of Ninja - 182,000
39. Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance - 156,000
40. One Piece: Grand Battle! 3 - 155,000
41. Custom Robo - 144,000
42. Wario World - 142,000
43. Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II - 138,000
44. Cubivore: Survival of the Fittest - 130,000
45. The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures - 127,000
46. Doshin the Giant - 126,000
47. Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life - 114,000
48. Nintendo Puzzle Collection - 110,000
49. Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean - 108,000
50. Donkey Konga 2 - 106,000

>>10154402
>No GoldenEye 007
I had to check if it was even sold there, it was.

>>10172849
>making up sales figures and posting bullshit.
How are they made up? They come from Famitsu' weekly sales charts. Also how is posting Famitsu chart data shitting up this thread when the thread itself is literaly about sales chart data?

>The Dreamcast wasn't officially announced until May of 1998 btw.
But unofficially everyone knew about it back in 1997. Sega was in a very public legal battle with 3DFX over it, developers were being given info on what to be prepping for to get ready for development, and magazines were full of info and rumors. And then there's also the famous Bernie Stolar quote from 1997.

> The Saturns poor sales in 1997 are because the system itself ceased production entirely due to the massive losses they were taking on manufacturing
Production ceased because Sega internally knew about Dreamcast and when they wanted to release it and started gearing down. Developers were being kept in the loop about this as well, so they started winding down their projects or preparing to move them. If there was no Dreamcast due out the following year, those things probably wouldn't have happened.

Saturn's production cost wasn't causing a massive loss by this point. We know know from the leaked documents how much Saturn cost to produce in early 1996, it was about $232 and they were selling it for $299 at that point. That's before the model 2, before the SH2s were consolidated, and with RAM prices still dropping like a rock. So by 1997 that cost was going to go down even further. In Japan both the PS1 and Saturn would hold around the $200 mark from mid 1996 to late 1997, with Saturn staying at that price officially until the end of it's life. It's very likely that Saturn was no longer being sold at a loss in Japan by the start of 1997.

>>10156807
You have to keep in mind that there were a lot of factors why Sega won the console battle in NA during that era. The SNES was plagued with a LOT of crappy shovelware and their sports games were generally regarded as inferior. If there was a multiplat, the Genesis usually had the better game experience despite being more limited hardware-wise (Would you rather play Contra Hard Corps or Contra III on the SNES? How about Super Street Fighter 2? Thunder Force 3 or "Thunder Spirits"?). Youtube "gaming historians" are especially guilty of ignoring the fact that Nintendo was widely regarded as a "kiddy game company" after the NES because teenagers in that generation wanted things to be cooler, grittier, and edgier. It's why Mortal Kombat having blood was such an important thing, it's why pro wrestling games were some of the best sellers, the boys wanted things to be edgy. The SNES had the unfortunate distinction of being associated with the NES and the same childhoods. Even something as simple as console aesthetics and marketing was a dealbreaker.

The Mega Drive was black, sleek, and looked like a mean motherfucker. The SNES on the other hand? Just a weird off-white console with purple switches, looks like something that came out of a Polly Pocket. Even something as simple as that is why consoles get bought. Even Nintendo tried to emulate a sexier design with the 64, only that console had a host of other issues.

>>10172849
>>10172958
> the VF boom died
The VF Boom is overstated. Saturn had a healthy third party market, which is evidenced by the fact that they sold just as much third party software as they did first party software. Saturn's strongest year hardware wise was 1996 where it sold 2.75 Million systems. Virtua Fighter 2 came out in 1995 and sold 1.7 Million over it's life time, but over 1 Million of that was sold in 1995. So those 2.75 Million people that bought a Saturn in 1996, weren't buying it for Virtua Fighter.

>FF7 came out and killed the console.
FF7 did have an impact in launching the PS1 forward, but that doesn't mean Saturn would have been dead due to it had Sega not completely pulled the plug on it for Dreamcast starting in 1997. For all we know had that not happened we may have seen Square possibly do a Saturn port for the Japanese market like the did for the PC port.

>Stop responding to this schizo retard and letting him ruin threads, he's genuinely mentally ill.
Again, I'm not the one getting incredibly upset over someone just posting Famitsu chart data.

>>10161584
The Dreamcast had a better game library than the Gamecube despite being three years older and only being out for half the time.

The Sega Saturn had a better game library than the Nintendo Shitty-Four which is still the most overrated console to ever exist.

The SNES and Genesis were near-peer, but the Genesis won because it forever changed the dynamic of what kids and teens looked for in video games. Nintendo kept being Nintendo and paid for it dearly with two failed back-to-back generations. Who the fuck wants to play Mario? That's stuff for the baby brother to play. Sony took what Sega did to its logical conclusion and BTFO both companies.

>>10166965
There was literally nothing wrong with DK64 through the intended perspective of a child.

god i hate segafags

>>10172802
>N64 was announced later in the SNES's life and it wasn't due out for years. It was more a "We have this in the pipeline, but it wont be out for years so for now buy the SNES."
That's not true though. The N64 was due out in 1995 back when it was stilled called the Ultra 64. The Killer Instinct arcade game even calls this out directly. The delay was unexpected. Nintendo had announced the system in 1994 and said "get it next year!" almost right up until day and date when they finally had to backpedal and admit it was going to be delayed. There was no "don't worry, it won't be out for a while" back when it was being advertised.

>>10173042
Again, you're missing the point here. In 1994 the SNES was reaching saturation and was starting to hit the downward side of the sales curve. This is the opposite of where this happened on Saturn. The SNES/N64 equivalent would have been like Nintendo telling devs and consumers "N64 is coming and will be out next year." in early 1993 and pulling the plug on production and shifting focus accordingly.

>>10173064
Donkey Kong Country and Super Metroid both came out in 1994. 1994 was when SNES was in it's prime.

We're not disagreeing on the literal facts. You're just interpreting those facts in bizarre counterfactual ways. Like saying that the N64 was "petering out" when it sold the same number of consoles three years in a row. Nobody would call that "petering out."

The elephant in the room is that Sega supposedly did all these stupid things that killed the Saturn by announcing the Dreamcast but let's say they hadn't. Let's say they followed Sony and didn't announce the next gen until 1999. How many more sales does the Saturn end up with by then? Sony could afford to hold out because the PS1 was in a class of it's own. Would the Saturn with it's roughly 5 million sales in 1997 been able to sustain momentum for that long? Would it have even been worth it to Sega to do so? What does that alternate universe look like if the Dreamcast is put off for two years?

>>10173113
>1994 was when SNES was in it's prime.
But not for hardware sales.
>We're not disagreeing on the literal facts. You're just interpreting those facts in bizarre counterfactual ways.
No, it's that you're conflating software and hardware sales and changing the subject. When I said reaching saturation and starting to hit the downward trend I'm talking about Hardware sales, which that's true. SNES's Japanese hardware sales breaks down like this:

1990-1991: 1.4 Million
1991-1992: 3 Million
1992-1993: 4 Million
1993-1994: 3 Million
1994-1995: 2.6 Million
1995-1996: 1.8 Million
1996-1997: 620k
1997-1998: 190k

1994 is around when we see yearly sales start to decrease, meaning we've hit the top of the bell curve and it's starting to wind down. Hardware is starting to reach saturation at this point. This is what a normal healthy console hardware sales should look like. Steady growth in sales for the first few years, then maybe a year or two where it stays stable, then a few years of decreasing sales. On Saturn we see the steady grow in sales for the first 2.5 years, but then it just drops off a cliff because the plug was pulled early. On N64 we don't see any growth in sales, we just see an initial burst and then it just slowly decreases for the rest of it's life. It effectively had a bunch of people buy it early on for the early Nintendo titles like Mario 64, and then less and less people continuing to buy it each year just for the Nintendo titles that were trickling out.

>>10173113
>>10173180
>What does that alternate universe look like if the Dreamcast is put off for two years?
If we're talking just Japan we'd probably see games that were in the pipeline but cancelled or moved to Dreamcast actually release on Saturn. This would include stuff like Virtua Fighter 3, Sonic Adventure, Sonic the Fighters, possibly even Shenmue.

Devs like Konami were testing the waters with porting PS1 games over, but unfortunately had them release during this time when the plug was pulled. So if that went over better we may have seen other stuff getting ported like possibly Metal Gear Solid.

We'd also probably see continued third party support from other devs like Capcom. So I wouldn't be surprised if you'd see stuff that was already in the pipeline like Resident Evil 2 as well as attempts at porting stuff like Marvel vs Capcom, Street Fighter 3, etc.

Would we see it take off like the PS1 did? Probably not, but we'd probably see another year of steady sales, and then it starting to gradually fall off as opposed to the abrupt stop we saw due to the plug being pulled.

>>10173196
But what does that do for sales? I'm bringing this up because it seems like Sega sensed that Saturn DID hit it's peak and decided to pull the trigger on the Dreamcast. Not that it was still on the rise and Sega pulled the plug prematurely. If Saturn sold 2.75 million in 1996 would it have sold the same or more than that in 1997 if the announcement never happened? I doubt it.

>>10173234
> I'm bringing this up because it seems like Sega sensed that Saturn DID hit it's peak and decided to pull the trigger on the Dreamcast.
They pulled the trigger because of how bad the system was doing outside of Japan, not because it had hit it's peak in Japan.

> If Saturn sold 2.75 million in 1996 would it have sold the same or more than that in 1997 if the announcement never happened? I doubt it.
It's hard to quantify because of how much stuff was in the pipeline and got cancelled or moved to other platforms. If that stuff in the pipeline released and we saw more games being released as a result, we probably could have seen another year of 2 Million, maybe 3, and then it would slowly taper off. If that didn't happen, we'd probably see another year of 1-2 Million and then it tapering off.

You'd probably see Saturn somewhere around 8-10 Million in Japan if the plug wasn't pulled. Maybe a little more depending on how software releases played out due to it lasting longer.

>>10173269
>>10173280
Be careful with this site as you go back further, some of their sources are a bit questionable. Case in point they have the Saturn at 10 Million. Sega doesn't even say that in their official world wide numbers and it's unlikely they even made that many systems.

>>10173289
Consoles that have that parabolic curve typically don't get a shot in the arm in it's late era. If all those games came out then they'd have sold to existing Saturn owners but probably wouldn't have caused a significant spike in console sales. Even the PS1 peaked around 1998 and then by 2000 saw a significant decline. There's also the issue that the Saturn was having a hell of a time keeping up with some of those games. Virtua Fighter 3 in the arcades was running on practically a supercomputer. The conversion would have been a dramatic downgrade which is why it didn't come out in the first place. Sega's arcade division didn't respect the limitations of it's consoles and kept publishing games that had no prayer of adequate conversions. Capcom did the same thing with Street Fighter III. I'm not sure the Saturn could have done that even with the 4MB RAM cart.

>>10173010
>nooooo you can't make fun of nintendo having nothing but marketing in the '90s!!
Nintendo wasted an entire decade pumping out mediocre consoles and only survived because of their name brands making Youtubers goon for them.

>>10173346
Nintendo had the Game Boy and DS lineup. There was no competing with them on that front. It was so successful that the Switch is more of a follow up to their handhelds than their consoles.

>>10173342
>Consoles that have that parabolic curve typically don't get a shot in the arm in it's late era
I didn't say it would get a shot in the arm. I said it would level off and then taper off following the curve.

> Even the PS1 peaked around 1998 and then by 2000 saw a significant decline.
I'm aware of that, but it also got a few years of normal tapering off, not an abrupt end. All I'm saying is if the plug wasn't pulled we'd probably at the very least see Saturn leveling/tapering off more naturally.

>Virtua Fighter 3 in the arcades was running on practically a supercomputer.
Sure, but a port was still in the works and probably still would have sold well. Some stages would need to be reworked but a lot could probably be pretty well approximated with decent VDP2 usage like we saw in Last Bronx. It would really depend on if they decided to keep it at 60fps or drop it to 30fps. If they went to 30fps they would have a bit more polygons to work with per frame for the fighters and stage scenery. If they kept it at 60fps they could at least get it playing and feeling like the arcade game, but looking more like Fighter's Megamix but with more intricate VDP2 backgrounds.

Considering how other arcade ports have downgraded over the years on various consoles from 8-bit to PS2-era, I don't think it would be that big of a deal if it still played well. Virtua Fighter 2 was a big visual downgrade to Saturn, still didn't stop it from selling because it still played well.

> The conversion would have been a dramatic downgrade which is why it didn't come out
The conversion was slated for release around fall of 1998, but the Dreamcast was coming out so they cancelled it for that version instead. If there was no Dreamcast, we probably would have seen VF3 release on Saturn in 1998.

>>10173342
>>10173458
Capcom did the same thing with Street Fighter III. I'm not sure the Saturn could have done that even with the 4MB RAM cart.
RAM is really the only thing that would have been in the way on that one. Worst case we'd see load times like we saw with the the Dungeons and Dragons collection, or having it toned down like Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Capcom vs SNK was on PS1. Hell they could have done a cart release or a bigger RAM cart if necessary.

>>10173342
>>10173458
>Capcom did the same thing with Street Fighter III. I'm not sure the Saturn could have done that even with the 4MB RAM cart.
RAM is really the only thing that would have been in the way on that one. Worst case we'd see load times like we saw with the the Dungeons and Dragons collection, or having it toned down like Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Capcom vs SNK was on PS1. Hell they could have done a cart release or a bigger RAM cart if necessary.

>>10173365
And yet, most people have nostalgia not for shitty DS and GB / GBC / GBA games, but the console games. Funny how that works? That's because their handheld games were shit and inferior. The Neo Geo Pocket Color proved that Nintendo's hardware was shit and they weren't trying. Fuck Nigtendo.

>>10173471
>The Neo Geo Pocket Color proved that Nintendo's hardware was shit and they weren't trying. Fuck Nigtendo.

Massive cope, if Nintendo was so shit then why did both sega and sony fail in the handheld department. Should've been an easy win right?
Stop blaming Nintendo for just doing what most people wanted, cheap handheld with good battery life.

grrr
hate nintender
graaaaah

>>10173484
To be entirely fair Gameboy's sales were dropping too around the mid 90s to the point that it looked to be on it's way out. Then small little game called Pokemon came out and the thing took off and sold more in the next 4 years or so than it had in the previous 8.

>>10173458
>All I'm saying is if the plug wasn't pulled we'd probably at the very least see Saturn leveling/tapering off more naturally.
One thing I'm having trouble with is that such announcements typically don't have that dramatic an effect on a console. I've never seen a scenario where the next gen machine is announced and the current gen one just...stops. "Sorry guys, no more games. Everyone can stop buying it now!" That kind of thing just doesn't happen. It didn't happen to the SNES. It didn't happen to the Genesis (in the west at least, Mega Drive was already finished in Japan). It didn't even happen to the NES which even got a redesign after the SNES had been out for a while. The PS1? Still sticking around for a while after the PS2 was out. The one system that did more or less stop cold when the next gen started was the original Xbox but that was because Microsoft couldn't manufacture it anymore. So for the Saturn to be uniquely harmed by the Dreamcast's announcement sounds more like a sign of weakness on the Saturn's part rather than an indication that it was sabotaged. That is unless Sega literally just stopped making it and went out of it's way to kill it. But if that's the case then...why?

>>10173686
>One thing I'm having trouble with is that such announcements typically don't have that dramatic an effect on a console.
It's because Dreamcast wasn't a typical announcement. What part of that are you having trouble understanding? Rumors were stirring about it 2.5 years into the Saturn's life. Sega themselves confirmed it in this time and were telling devs to expect it the following year and starting to wind down Saturn as a result. It would be like if Nintendo was telling devs about the Super Famicom in 1986 and telling them to be ready for a launch in 1987.

>So for the Saturn to be uniquely harmed by the Dreamcast's announcement sounds more like a sign of weakness on the Saturn's part rather than an indication that it was sabotaged. That is unless Sega literally just stopped making it and went out of it's way to kill it. But if that's the case then...why?
Because Japan was the only territory it was doing well in and the US branch was begging for a new console. So they decided to kill Saturn to launch a new system in the hopes it would do well in all territories instead of just one. They didn't pull the plug because Saturn was suddenly dead in Japan. They did it because it wasn't selling outside of Japan and felt it was better to try a fresh start to get better sales worldwide.

The hypothetical scenario we're talking about here though is just focusing on Japan and ignoring the rest of the world. So basically how would Saturn have continued to do in Japan had Sega not pulled the plug on it for the Dreamcast and just told the US branch to deal with it for the next few years? Yeah US would be a disaster but we're focusing on how it would continue to do in Japan. Which in that scenario we'd probably see it continue to do ok there for the next few years with decent third party support.

>>10173686
>I've never seen a scenario where the next gen machine is announced and the current gen one just...stops.
Because it doesn't happen unless the console is already considered a failure.
The only consoles that had releases drop dead are the Saturn, N64, and Gamecube.
Speaking of the Gamecube, it has the exact same trajectory as the Saturn, right down to the software sales, and absolutely no one pretends it was some hidden gem. Saturn fanboys are so delusional its simply sad at this point.

>>10173725
>Speaking of the Gamecube, it has the exact same trajectory as the Saturn, right down to the software sales, and absolutely no one pretends it was some hidden gem.

No it doesn't. Gamecube's Hardware sales in Japan break down like this:

2001-2002: 1.5 Million
2002-2003: 900k
2003-2004: 990k
2004-2005: 340k
2005-2006: 200k
2006-2007: 20k
2007-2008: 20k

This is basically the N64 again. An initial burst at the start for the first party Nintendo stuff and more slowly buying it for the first party stuff as it trickles out. Software is again just like N64 for the most part. 1st party titles dominate the top 20 or so but don't sell nearly as well, and it falls off quickly. Gamecube sales to below 100k around the top 60 while Saturn doesn't do that until you get outside the top 100. Gamecube sales drop below 10k around the top 130 while Saturn doesn't do that until you get outside the top 400.

You're right that a lot of failed consoles in Japan do have a similar sales trajectory. The N64, Gamecube, Dreamcast, Wii U, etc. follow this kind of trend of a bunch of initial sales at the start, then decreasing sales over time until it's gone.. The odd one out is Saturn. It's trajectory is much more in line with a typical console up until the point where the plug gets pulled. It starts strong and then keeps growing for the first 2.5 years.

>>10173715
What I'm not understanding is exactly how successful are you saying the Saturn was? We agree on the raw data. The difference is I'm saying that data tells us Saturn was stable but not especially better off than the N64 was. You seem to want to say that it was either much better off than the N64, or would have been if not for Sega's interference. The latter, okay, I get that we're talking hypotheticals there. But the former I just don't see it.

>>10173751
Why are you acting like a big launch is a bad thing? Systems will have a parabolic arc because when they launch it typically takes a while to build momentum. But a console coming out big right away isn't going to have a parabolic arc but clearly did something right if the launch is so successful everyone buy the thing right away. You're painting consistency year to year as if its a negative but there's something to be said for that kind of stability.

>>10173760
> The difference is I'm saying that data tells us Saturn was stable but not especially better off than the N64 was.
The issue is you're looking at the raw numbers at the end of the generation instead of how it was playing out over time. N64 took a lot longer to get to the same point Saturn was at when the plug was prematurely pulled. N64 wasn't really showing growth in sales year after year, it was showing decreasing sales each year, Saturn on the other hand was showing increasing sales each year until the plug got pulled.

Overall Saturn looked to be a much healthier system in terms of how its sales were trending in the first few years, as well as how software was selling, especially third party software.

N64 games -_-
N64 games, Japan 0w0

>>10173775
>Why are you acting like a big launch is a bad thing?
I'm not, but I'm saying when it's not sustained it shows the only people interested are the diehard fans and early adopters. That's not really good in the long term.
>You're painting consistency year to year as if its a negative but there's something to be said for that kind of stability.
No, I'm pointing out what it actually is in the case of the N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, etc.

That said, I realize I made an oops previously, I compared Saturn's sell through numbers to N64's shipped numbers. So let's correct that.

Saturn's Shipped Numbers:
FY94-95: 840,000
FY95-96: 1,660,000
FY96-97: 2,300,000
FY97-98: 800,000
FY98-99: 300,000
Total: 5,900,000

N64s Shipped Numbers
FY96-97: 2,040,000
FY97-98: 1,110,000
FY98-99: 1,210,000
FY99-00: 940,000
FY00-01: 200,000
FY01-02: 50,000
Total: 5,540,000

Now where things get interesting is in the sell-through numbers.
Saturn:
1994: 500,000
1995: 1,700,000
1996: 2,754,311
1997: 449,450
1998: 227,314
Total: 5,631,075

N64:
1996: 933,480
1997: 919,269
1998: 1,208,070
1999: 1,131,605
2000: 236,350
2001: 78,000
2002: 8,000
Total: 4,514,775

What we see here is Saturn almost sold through it's entire shipments each year, even after the plug got pulled and it was on it's way out. There's less than 300k units unaccounted for. N64 on the other hand wasn't selling all of it's shipped units to the point that there's over a million units unaccounted for. So if this data is accurate, it means the N64 was sitting on store shelves not selling in Japan, while the Saturn was still selling most of it's inventory even in it's dying days.

dreamcast sales data in Japan

>>10173813
To me that's six of one, half dozen of the other. If we take the extreme angle that the N64 blew it's load right away and then trickled off afterwards (again, I don't think the numbers show that but for the sake of argument let's assume that's how it is) that's neither better nor worse than a parabolic curve that ramps up and then comes down because at the end of the day a sale is a sale is a sale. We're not comparing a small slice of each console's lifespan where those kinds of distinctions would be relevant. Here we're talking overall "how well did X do?" In that context the total numbers at the end matter way more then where on the timeline they happened to be sold.

>>10174123
It's also worth pointing out that Virtua Fighter 2 came out in December 1995. And that was the Saturn's "Mario 64" so to speak. So the spike in sales in 1996 likely correlates to that game. There were also steady price drops happening that the N64 didn't have to bother with since the N64 was pretty cheap right out of the gate.

>>10173893
Where are you getting all this information from? I'm usually not one to be like "source" but at this point there are so many random numbers being thrown around it's fair to see the original data.

>>10174123
There is a difference between the two though. One shows growing interest in the console when it comes out, the other shows it being more a flash in the pan that's not going to last. The former is what generally attracts third party support because it shows there's a growing market worth investing into, the other shows something that's far more risky and possibly not worth it. It's why Saturn had a ton of third party support in Japan, while the N64 didn't. This is why it's important to look at the sales data over time, the amount of software sold, and how much third party support the systems had to really gauge how much more popular a system was.

>>10174130
>It's also worth pointing out that Virtua Fighter 2 came out in December 1995. And that was the Saturn's "Mario 64" so to speak. So the spike in sales in 1996 likely correlates to that game.
Virtua Fighter 2 sold about 1.3-1.7 Million over it's life span depending on what numbers you go off of. According to Famitsu over 1 Million of that was sold by the end of 1995. So no, that spike in hardware sales in 1996 was not from Virtua Fighter 2. It was most likely from the ton of new first and third party games that started coming out for the system around then.

Look at the games that were coming out in 1996. You had Panzer Dragoon II, NiGHTS, Dragon Force, Sakura Wars, Enemy Zero, Tokimeki Memorial, Soul Hackers, Street Fighter Alpha 1 and 2, Virtua Cop 2, Fighting Vipers, Fighter's Megamix, Dark Stalkers, Layer Section, Lunar Silver Star Story, Virtual On, Evangelion, King of Fighters 95, and a bunch of Baseball and Soccer games. All of those sold a couple 100,000 copies each. You also had the Model 2 release in March. You honestly don't think any of that was driving hardware sales in 1996?

>>10174139
This site aggregates Famitsu sales chart data as well as official shipped data when it's available:
https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/game-search

>>10174279
https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/hardware-by-platform/nintendo-64

This site says that the data it's using is known to be inaccurate?

>>10174557
Read more carefully. It's saying Famitsu's sell through data doesn't match with Nintendo's shipped data. It doesn't say that for any other console, just the N64. All the other systems the shipped and Famitsu sell-through numbers seem to align pretty close together give or take a few 100k, which is to be expected. But for the N64, it's off by over 1 million as I already pointed out.

So it means that either Famitsu somehow got the N64s numbers completely wrong even though it was able to get them pretty spot on for just about every other console including the N64's direct competitors, or Nintendo's shipped numbers are off or including more than just Japan. It's probably a little of column A, a little of column B.

The thing I'm finding interesting is for Nintendo's shipped numbers I can't find anything saying they shipped 2 Million in FY96-97. The other years are in a PDF they published a few years ago, but FY96-97 is missing from that and I'm having trouble finding earlier ones. So I'm not sure where the 2 Million is coming from for that year and what it includes. I do know though for some older reports Nintendo did tend to combine regions together. For example years ago their report on the SNES combined North and South America into just "The Americas". So maybe they combined Japan and other parts of Asia in their earlier shipping reports and that's the cause of the discrepancy?

Either way, the data we have indicates the N64 wasn't really selling on par with the Saturn when it comes to both hardware and software.

>>10154538
>Derby Stallion
That's a lot of sales

How's that jikkyo baseball game? Is it comfy? I don't really know baseball games but is it arcadey? I don't really like simulation style sports games

>>10154545
didnt realize dragon quest monsters sat above pokemon crystal

>>10174580
The combined figures has weight. I'm curious where that extra million could be coming from though if not Japan. South Korea maybe? I don't think Nintendo sold any systems in China because of the rampant piracy.

>>10174640
It actually has even more sales than that because Chocobo Stallion is just an alternative version of Derby Stallion but with Chocobos.

>>10174279
You are massively coping this entire thread, while ignoring the most obvious and determining factor. The Saturn had way more third party support because it used CDs which combined with the incredibly lax publishing standards Sega had, made it easy to dump mountains of shovelware on the console. All of the major third parties like Enix, Square, Konami, or Namco more or less totally ignored the console because it was just as irrelevant as the N64 was. Capcom ported their games because it was a simple job, and still didn't get any sales because the audience for the console was incredibly niche. The fact multiple Robot Taisen games are in the top selling chart above titles like Street Fighter or baseball games is proof enough of the kind of fanbase the Saturn attracted. Not to mention you directly prove your own delisions false when you keep harping on how the console sold millions, but the ignore how software sales never hit new peaks, which is a direct indication of a solid niche fanbase who will purchase numerous titles, and a bunch of consumers only buying the console to play 2-3 titles.
You can combine the N64 and Saturn's sales, and then double that, and still have a lower number than the PS1's sales. That you're trying to pretend the Saturn was somehow not a tremendous failure just like the N64 is honestly hilarious. Both consoles were utterly irrelevant in Japan and both were carried almost entirely by 2-3 major titles with the rest of the library ignored. They had niche fanbases and obviously the console that had disc based media sold more niche titles, especially considering Nintendo's draconian publishing rules while Sega was so lax and nonchalant that legitimately almost 1/4th of the Saturn library is mahjong, pachinko, horse racing, VNs and literal porn games. All of which are made by fly by night companies no one has ever heard of just scraping market trends because pressing a CD cost pennies.
You're a grown adult stop fighting fanboy wars.

>>10166762
Sorry dog but the genesis was just flat out better at the end of the day

Sega really got lucky with the Saturn in Japan because NEC shit the bed with the PC-FX. The Genesis was barely a thing over there specifically because the PC-Engine ate it's lunch. The same would have happened to the Saturn if NEC followed that up with a console that was worth a damn. The vacuum created by the PC-FX's failure allowed Sega the in it needed to fill the gap.

>>10177726
>That you're trying to pretend the Saturn was somehow not a tremendous failure just like the N64 is honestly hilarious.
The issue I have is that people want to split these two apart. If someone wants to argue both failed in Japan, then sure, you can make that argument. If someone wants to argue that both were successful to some degree in Japan even if way behind the PS1, then sure, you can also make that argument. But I don't see an argument for saying the Saturn was successful but the N64 flopped. They were not significantly far apart from each other.

>>10178962
>The Genesis was barely a thing over there specifically because the PC-Engine ate it's lunch

sega horribly botched the launch of the megadrive in japan. it only hads a handful of games its first year (all were shit), and then pce picked up momentum very early with namco support, R-type, and the CD-addon for RPGs with cutscenes

pce had low budget yet profitable shit for the normies too, like fire pro wrestling, momotaro dentetsu, f1 circus, and the hudson caravan shooters

>>10178984
I don't know about that. When the Mega Drive/Genesis launched it's gimmick was that finally you could play Sega's awesome arcade library at home in a reasonably authentic way. In the west it kinda worked because the TG16 came late, giving the Genesis a head start before it finally took off for real with Sonic and Mortal Kombat. In Japan it didn't have that luxury because the PC-Engine came out first and offered decent arcade ports in it's own right, robbing Sega of it's key gimmick of being a miniaturized arcade machine. Had it come out before PC-Engine it might have worked out better in the same way it did overseas.

>>10179292
>>10178984
The real fact of the matter is that Sega is a idiotic company who more or less failed continuously at everything but making arcade games, and infiltrating favellas. The Master System was a failure and more or less a clone of the SG-1000 that they re-released multiple times without anyone giving a shit. All of their consoles failed miserably in their home country, and only the Genesis wasn't a failure in the rest of the world. If you look at their financial reports, their consumer division is bleeding money year after year after year outside of a short 3 year stretch when the Genesis was hot in America. By the mid and late 90's the arcade profits are being rendered moot because the home divisions are losing so much money they're not even breaking even. And then even when they went bankrupt and had to get bailed out by the CEO donating them his own fucking money and forced third party, the quality of their games was so horrible that they almost went bankrupt again and had to be bought out. People will one day realize that the Genesis' success in North America was the real aberration of the company's lifespan because they did nothing but fail constantly beside that.