/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10132170
Rrrrrrrrriiidggggeeeee Raccccccerrrrrr

gta3 exclusivity

>>10132170
was the piracy issue really that big of an issue or is this retcon cope? i can't imagine most normies at the time had the equipment or internet speed to actually take advantage of the MIL-CD exploit

Stronger lead-in console
DVD compatability/not using a proprietary media format
Better library
The PS2 not existing

>>10132170
Nothing. The Dreamcast failed through no fault of its own, Sega just wasn't cut for the console business.

>>10132180
The Dreamcast had a higher attach rate than the PS2 had in the PS2's first 3 years. If piracy killed the Dreamcast, the PS2 would have been canned before long.

>>10132170
Sega not hemorrhaging money from other expensive failed ventures like the 32X and Saturn.

Better controller wouldn't have hurt.

>>10132181
>Better library
It has the best library of that gen tho.
>nooooooo but i dont like arcade games
Too bad bitch, arcade games are the best kind of games, and Dreamcast has them in spades.

>>10132180
not many people had cd burners then and CD-Rs were fairly expensive per disc. plus, gd-roms had to be trimmed to fit on CD-Rs and games were extremely buggy until well after the DC was already dead

>>10132170
To save the Dreamcast you need to save the Saturn first.

>>10132170
>What could have saved it, anons?
Sony not existing. Sony literally took Sega's place in the market (low cost and sports games) and they even stole the jarpig fags from Nintendo.

>>10132215
>It has the best library of that gen tho
This thread is about saving the Dreamcast AKA making it sell. Pic related is what you need. You're not gonna sell 150 million consoles with Crazy Taxi and Zombie Revenge

>>10132192
>23.87 million software units sold
That's the problem with believing Sega's numbers. Look around for a list of the best selling Dreamcast games. There are 7 that sold 1 million copies or more. Sonic Adventure(2.42 million), Crazy Taxi(1.81 million), NFL2K(1.20 million), Shenmue(1.20 million), Resident Evil - Code:Veronica(1.14 million), NFL 2K1(1.09 million), SoulCalibur(1 million). That's lifespan of the console, not just one year. The next game on the list is Seaman, which sold 520,000 copies. Every game after sold less. This doesn't add up close to 23.87 million.
By the way, what metric is that chart using? There were 9.13 million Dreamcasts sold worldwide. Where the fuck are "10.61" and "28.68" coming from, and what do they relate to?

>>10132215
I got a DC when it came out and thoroughly enjoyed HotD2, SFA3, MvC2, and the 3rd Strike compilation, so I don't disagree with the DC having some good ports (and whatever you'd call Naomi conversions), but through the 6th gen a lot of gamers were looking for games with more involved single player experiences to make up the core of the library, so quality arcade games weren't the top selling point for the GTA3 crowd.

>>10132170
DVD Player.

>>10132353
The table is PS2 sales numbers.

>>10132353
Sega said so in their god damn financial reports. I'd take that number over any third-rate journalist guesstimate any day.
The table is PS2 sales numbers.

>>10132170
Better marketing.

>>10132353
Anon your math is terrible.

>>10132170
The problem wasn't necessarily the Dreamcast. The problem was that Sega the company has no more money. They were broke aftet the failure of the Sega CD, Sega 32x, and the huge failure of the Sega Saturn. The Dreamcast was made by Sega going into debt and borrowing money and that money wasnt even enough. SEGA could only pay for 18 months of the Dreamcast being on the market. For the Dreamcast to succeed it would require Sega to not be in such a desperate financial situation.

Secondly, the Dreamcast probably could have countered the Playstation 2 by having Sega offering a more robust online experience. Imagine if Sega offered Xbox Live before Microsoft did it. Imagine if Dreamcast had Halo before Microsoft had it. That is how you counter Sony. You offer a better online experience with great games and charge fans for it. Call it "Sega Live" or whatever.

>>10132170
Better games.

>>10132170
you can't. The switch from Dreamcast to PS2 was when soul was killed.

>>10132474
>keyboard
Seems like the Dreamcast already had no soul.

>>10132170
If SEGA of Japan would've let SEGA of America do their job.

>>10132485
>If SEGA of Japan would've let SEGA of America do their job.
This.

Based on numerous accounts and interviews, it seems like some people at Sega of Japan were jealous with Sega of America performing so well and actively tried to sabotage them. This is just bizarre. You never hear this crap happening at Nintendo. You never heard Nintendo of Japan having infighting with Nintendo of America. Or Sony of Japan fighting with Sony of America. Only Sega has done this.

We already did this yesterday. At least wait a month before reviving this dead topic.

>>10132474
>blue swirl dreamcast
>orange swirl controller
my autism angry

>>10132506
Yuh but NoJ really needs to beat the shit out of NoA...I hate NoA so much.
And SoA basically killed off SoJ by moving headquarters to california.

>>10132506
>or Sony of Japan fighting with Sony of America
SCEA won against SCEI anon.
Regardless, there was no sabotage. When Sega of America got their way with the 32X, it was disastrous. When Sega of America got to making games, it was a catastrophe.

>>10132525
dreamcultists can't go one day without making the same exact thread
may as well be AI

>>10132531
>When Sega of America got their way with the 32X
Sega of American didn't even want the 32x to begin with. They were content to wait an extra year for the Sega Saturn to come to America.

>>10132170
Probably nothing, at least in the US market. By the time it came out I think the Saturn had tarnished Sega's reputation a bit too much. A second analog stick might have made it a bit more appealing and allowed some additional ports that could have given it a bit longer lifespan.

My Dad was heavily involved in the tech industry in the mid-80s to the mid-2000s, and I remember when I was a kid one of his friends that was doing some side work for him was working for Sega at the time. He would be over at the house frequently and at some point asked if I was excited about the Dreamcast, to which I essentially replied "..Eh". I actually remember watching his face drop when I said that, and I still feel a little bit bad about it even all these years, because when I finally did get my hands on one I actually really enjoyed it.

>>10132573
>I was a kid one of his friends that was doing some side work for him was working for Sega at the time. He would be over at the house frequently and at some point asked if I was excited about the Dreamcast, to which I essentially replied "..Eh". I actually remember watching his face drop when I said that, and I still feel a little bit bad about it even all these years, because when I finally did get my hands on one I actually really enjoyed it.

Don't feel bad about doing that. Sega needed a reality check. Kids have no filter and are always honest. Even brutally honest. Your dad's friend needed to understand that Sega was in a bad position. Not get drunk off his own Sega marketing hype.

Family's and Kids only have enough money to usually buy only one game system. So they have to choose and be careful on who they support.

If he's still alive, maybe the next time you see him, you can tell him that you played the Dreamcast and realized it was a very good machine. It will probably make him feel better and chuckle.

>>10132170
A child born days, years even, later?

>>10132353
Anon the dreamcast had around 600 games in It's lifespan if they all sold only around 50k units that's still 30M games sold.

A little off topic, but does anyone have a guide to what dreamcast games are recommended?
I missed the dreamcast train.

>>10132215
>It has the best library of that gen tho.
you people are fucking delusional

If I'm being real, not putting out Shenmue, or at least doing it in smaller segments.
Yes, it was ambitious as all hell, but that's also the bullet in the foot considering Sega already was facing an uphill battle against the PS2 (as well as combating declining software sales by way of piracy). Putting out what was at the time one of the most expensive games ever was such a fucking stupid move even if it gave us a landmark game of that generation. It was never going to make back its money.

>>10132180
I would rent games back in the day and copy them over the weekend. That way I didn't have to rely on 56kbps internet to download games.

>>10132170
Final Fantasy. Back then, it was the king-maker.

Nintendo has Pokemon and Zelda to weather the FF-induced Sony domination, and Sega didn't.

>>10133001
Plus for bonus poitns there was no "resume download," so if ANYTHING disrupted or if your already-slow speed fell below a certain level, then it would drop with a failure notice, and you'd have to start all over downloading from the beginning again.

>>10133007
This is it. Nintendo kept diversifying or re-introducing their mascots. Rare genuinely did a lot to help with that in the west, but Banjo, DK and DKR, the Pokemon craze, along with Mario and Zelda, helped provide a somewhat decent depth of library. Dreamcast had what system sellers exactly?

Merging with Bandai or Sony (both almost happened)

>>10133052
Sonic The Hedgehog's Bizarre Adventure
Soulcalibur (ja ja FGC autism etc)
Shenmue

>>10132170
Mostly Saturn's fault, but there was also no way they could compete against the PS2 sadly.

>>10132474
This is super clean

>>10133052
Crazy Taxi
Jet Set Radio
Chu Chu Rocket
Samba De Amigo
Space Channel 5
2K Games

>>10133197
do you not know what system sellers are?

>>10132170
EA SPORTS GAMES

>>10132170
Literally nothing. Replaying old console wars is a mug's game. Enjoy what we have and realize the greatness and nostalgia was a fluke.

>>10132180
I loved the dreamcast as a kid, but I had more pirated games than official ones.
Parents somehow sourced them from folk they knew. I had one disc that was just a compilation of a ton of games.

Granted we had a chipped playstation for pirated games too.

>>10132180
The piracy thing is 100% retcon cope. Let me ask you this: Can you honestly picture the Dreamcast hardware being competitive with the other sixth gen consoles into 2006?

>>10132170
Your sincere love for video games.

>>10132178
If tomb raider and resident evil taught us anything is that it would't had mattered and sony would still win.

>>10133780
Dreamcast was basically on pat or slightly better than Gamecube so yeah I could see it hanging in there.

The Japanese market not siding with square soft poopy games and a newcomer over Nintendo and Sega who gave them everything

>>10132170
By never releasing the sega cd and 32x and cut out all the infighing between SOA and SOJ.

>>10133780
Dreamcast exclusives definitely wouldn't have kept up with the PS2 and Xbox, but if a multiplat got downgraded for Gamecube it could have definitely been downgraded for the Dreamcast too.

>>10132217
Absolute nonsense. Most lower end computers were shipping with burners and tons of companies had rebate programs that got you a huge spindle of them for .99 cents.

>>10133015
Yes there was actually. Flashget I think? But there were others, plus lots of sites had the games broken up into smaller zip files so even if your connection did drop you just needed to redownload that chunk.

>>10134218
You're retarded. Dreamcast was way weaker than the gamecube in pretty much every conceivable way.

>>10134249
Prove it. Dreamcast and Gamecube looked about the same in quality.

Let's assume that Sega didn't fuck up the Saturn.
That the 32x never existed and the like 30 games that weren't ported to the Saturn originally are now also launch tittles.
That there was no surprise launch so many stores don't boycott Sega by not selling their products.
That Sega manage to give an actually good devkit for the Saturn in time so most developers could make games for it more easily before it fell into irrelevancy.
That it got a Sonic game somehow.
That with all that the Saturn miraculously got, at the very least, a %50 boost in unit sales world wide.

NOW we can start talking about the Dreamcast, let's assume that sega didn't remove 2 buttons from it's previous controller, or better yet, let's add a second anolog while we're at it and let's ALSO say Bernie didn't chose the moden over the DVD player.
You know what you'd get? Sega holding out for another year or so and still getting out of the console market.

Why was the Genesis a failure? t. SNES kid

>>10134282
Not they didn't. Even release games on the gamecube looked better than dreamcasts best.

>>10134356
>let's ALSO say Bernie didn't chose the moden over the DVD player.
Can we stop this shit specifically? IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO INCLUDE A DVD PLAYER AT THIS TIME AND NOT MASSIVELY INCREASE THE COST OF THE SYSTEM.
DVD hardware was expensive as fuck the suddently dropped off near the end of the year 2000. The dreamcast came out in 1999.

>>10134552
My mistake, sorry.

>>10134552
Okay, hear me out. What if the Dreamcast had a... VHS player?

I wish the Dreamcast had broadband built in, would 1998 has been too early for that? Not really sure when that standard took off.

>>10132217
I imagine people bought pirate copies from the chinese like they did with ps1 games

>>10134593
>would 1998 has been too early for that?
Yes. Broadband didn't get offered at a reasonable price in my area (major city) until 2001. Before that it was Dial Up connectionsfor most people.

Having a Dreamcast with a broadband adapter would mean nothing to me until much later. Broadband didn't take off until the time Dreamcast died.

>>10134593
I was stuck with 1way cable in rural America until about 2007. That was cable download speeds but 56k upload. It was actually cool because it was like a built in lag switch and gave me an unfair advantage in a lot of multiplayer games. I think we got 1way cable in like 2005 and it took forever for them to upgrade our lines. Being stuck on 56k was the worst, I had to have an internet friend mail me CD-Rs with Dreamcast games on them.

if the saturn had been good, the dreamcast would have sold well too.

>>10132170
Only Sony committing a major mistake, like pricing PS2 at $599 instead of PS3.

>>10132478
Way to out yourself as a manchild

Microphone, singing over teh interwebz

>>10133001
i did the same

>>10134218
Yeah nah. It was comparable to the PS2 in many aspects but the Gamecube was a fair bit more powerful, especially the graphics.

>>10136381
Even PS2 is more powerful, its CPU is around 50% faster than Dreamcast's.

>>10136515
Yeah, but PS2 had to do many things in software.
Dreamcast had actually good GPU / VRAM, unlike the PS2.

>>10136735
>good GPU

>>10136771
PS2 could never handle a game like Shenmue II without downgrades.

PS2 was the weakest console of 6th gen, hate to break it to ya, Sotranny.

>>10136801
What about GoW 2?

>>10132170
People wanted more immersive experiences with better graphics which the PS2, Dreamcast, and Xbox brought in droves.

Today, I firmly believe a console that aims to revive old school style gaming experiences would have moderate success. Something marketed as the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

>>10136834
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EegY0Xjv0W8

>>10136801
>flat as fuck texture, zero shading or lighting
>2 shadows at a time, PS1 tier blocky shadow

>>10132170
Me. I could have saved it.
But I didn't.
I failed her.

>>10136880
>pissfilter
know your place, trash

>>10134159
but those games weren't exclusive

>>10132206
>Better controller wouldn't have hurt

Obvious Snoy poster.

>>10132407
They had Seganet, you Zoom Zoom.

>>10133197
I'm old and haven't played any of those.
>back to Sega Genesis and Sega CD for me.

>>10136801
Not sure if bait or delusional

I kind of want to dive into the Dreamcast library soon. I've played the Sonic Adventure games, Crazy Taxi, and Tony Hawk, but not much else outside of that. Since I spent so much time playing Saturn games already I figure it's time to finally get into Dreamcast

>>10132407
Sega had their own ISP. Did you actually not know that or what?

>>10134282
The Dreamcast was better at certain effects like order-dependent transparency and lighting. The difference in quality in the Adventure ports becomes very apparent because of this.

>>10132474
No, that would be the Nintendo Wii. Video games have been consistently soulless since its release.
It marked the change in direction for the video game industry by pandering to normies.

should have kept sonic 2d and introduced a new 3d mascot
going fast was a death sentence in 3d

>>10137127
Seganet wasn't their best work and you know it. Seganet was an after thought. I'm talking about diverting real resources into making a robust online experience.

It's crazy to me how the Dreamcast runs laps around the Saturn without even trying

Like Sonic Adventure and Crazy Taxi are just the tip of the iceberg, once you get into the shmups, puzzlers, fighting games, homebrew etc. it's like everything the Saturn was trying to do but better. Thank you based Bernie

>>10137528
They did that already, didn't work

>>10137351
I agree SEGA CD was probably the peak, but Dreamcast definitely has some titles worth checking out as well if you haven't already

>>10132170
DVD and a better controller.

>>10137602
>NiGHTs
I still like it, and its sequel, Journey of Dreams. Back when Naka wasn't super full of himself nor as much of a nutcase like he is now. Yuji Naka is the Jim Schuter of Sega.

>>10134536
Prove it. Show me the receipts

>>10132170
Keeping it on the shelf longer than a year would have helped. I swear they stopped selling games for it a month after I bought one. I was pissed

Saturn is like Windows 8, Dreamcast is like Windows 10

>>10134218
Dreamcast and Gamecube look the same to me. Im looking at screenshots right now and I don't see much difference. In some cases, Dreamcast looks better.

>>10137603
Yes to the latter. At the very least put the controller cable on the other side just under the slot for the VMUs. Also, if they couldn't be assed to have the controller have 8 buttons at least go with 7.

>>10137669
Any game that can't be played on the dreamcast controller is needlessly complex and should be simplified.

>>10132170
a price drop
also >>10137631, they quit too soon

>>10137603
GD's were fucking trash and didn't even work a lot of the time. Skies of Arcadia barely worked on my 6 month old DC and would cut out at random in 2000. Fuck edgy contrarian zoomers and their revisionist history. The Dreamcast was a cool system but a piece of shit when it came to reliability. If Sega had survived I guarantee they would have ended up getting a class action lawsuit that would have bankrupted them anyways.
>but muh PS2 disc read error
At least Sony repaired my PS2 for free and paid for the shipping.

>>10137708
>A price drop
It was sold at $199 at launch, each dreamcast was being sold at a $200 loss, which is $100 higher than what was commonly done.
And when the Ps2 was on the way theh dropped it to $149.

>>10137708
>they quit too soon

They were losing money at a alarming rate. If it wasn't for Isao Okawa giving his stock away they would've went bankrupt.

>>10137683
>Any game that can't be played on the Dreamcast controller is needlesly complex and should be simplified WAAAAAHHHHHH
>MUH BABY BRAIN CAN'T COUNT COMPREHEND MORE THAN 6 IN THE LONG TERM!
OK Crackbaby.

>>10139154
Cope. If you need more than six buttons you should just use just use a mouse and keyboard. The dreamcast controller was perfect.

Nothing. It was doomed as soon as the PS2 launched.

>>10137519
>Wario Ware Smooth Moves
>soulless
zoom zoom

The swan song of a dying company

>>10132170
A child born after it was discontinued?

A DVD player and a proper joystick.

>>10139843
Sega wouldn't be able to afford a DVD player while keeping the dreamcast at a reasonable price.

>>10139362
>Needing to buy another controller to play games
This is why Sega failed.

>>10132170
Less quirky games. Ironically, the people who love the Dreamcast now love it because of some of the oddball things the console is associated with, not because it was the best way to play Quake 3 Arena or Unreal Tournament (although Phantasy Star Online was pretty awesome). Technically it was in the same gen as the PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox, yet it didn't carve out a niche; PS2 had a lot of strong RPGs as well as a lot of extremely well done niche genres (like the type of survival horror characterized by Silent Hill and Fatal Frame), Gamecube had all the usual Nintendo-only shit like Zelda and Smash Bros, and Halo alone sold a bazillion Xboxes. Dreamcast had Sonic, no DVD player, and not a lot of games that had the same appeal as the heavy hitters in the same generation.

I say all that and I'm looking at my Dreamcast hooked up across the room with a smile, because all the weirdness makes me really enjoy it. It's also a console I didn't actually grow up with, so it gives me a chance to experience a lot of new strange games from that generation without just sinking into bittersweet nostalgia jerking.

>>10132180
Regarding piracy, I remember using a DexDrive and a CD burner to make monsters for Monster Rancher 2 back in the PSX era. It was definitely something that could be done and was probably done a lot by various internet communities.

>>10140007
The dreamcast was discontinued before the xbox or gamecube launched

>>10132384
this is the only non-retarded answer

>>10139362
>COPE
Nice try, fuckwit. Neither the world nor the universe bow down to your needs.
Also,
>Any criticism of the Dreamcast is automatically wrong
Truly, you sound like an average redditor who can't into Things that don't appeal to his baby brain console warrior fart huffing idiocy.

>>10140007
>Dreamcast had Sonic, no DVD player, and not a lot of games that had the same appeal as the heavy hitters in the same generation.
>I say all that and I'm looking at my Dreamcast hooked up across the room with a smile, because all the weirdness makes me really enjoy it

That's not the fault of the Dreamcast. That's the fault of the Sega Saturn. Not a single hit major game or franchise from the Sega Genesis was transferred to the Sega Saturn. No Sonic. No Streets of Rage. No Mortal Kombat. No Golden Axe. No Shinobu. Etc. Sega failed to build up a legacy for the Dreamcast to inherit.

>>10132192
Sony were flush with funds after the Playstation and could afford to wait longer for returns on the PS2, which eventually came in spades. Sega had no such luxury.

>>10132170
Sega would have had to have a completely different game philosophy, No one wanted Arcade ports, they had the biggest sports franchises on the planet and couldn't parlay that into long term success.
>>10132180
Piracy is one of those if you know you know things just like now, but on DC it was extremely easy to do you just needed a boot disc. most people got one with a game shark it made importing and piracy easy as pie.
how easy it was to do is what scared off devs, it wasn't that people were doing it, it was that the could.

>>10140837
That narrative sounds like cow manure to me.
The proper followup to "how easy it was to do is what scared off devs" is "Which devs exactly?"

>>10140757
>or franchise from the Sega Genesis was transferred to the Sega Saturn.
>No Mortal Kombat. No Golden Axe. No Shinobu. Etc
The Saturn had those specifically.

>>10132529
>I hate NoA so much.
Why?

Played Ikaruga for the first time today and it puts Radiant Silvergun to shame. Shmups in general on this thing are way better than most of the ones I played on Saturn maybe with the exception of the Konami shooters.

Can't wait to check out some more, probably going to move my Saturn games to external storage when I run out of space

>>10141139
Not that anon, we should've gotten Revenge of Death Adder, instead we got some sad fighting game spin-off. Haven't played Shinobi Legends yet though

>>10141509
2D beat em ups were dying faster than 2D fighters, so i'm not sure if it would affect the Saturn in any meaningful way.
Saturn also had sequels to Beyond Oasis, that one Zelda clone and Tempo, but i guess they weren't famous enough for people to care.

>>10141501
>Ikaruga!!!

>>10141639
It had a lot of Shining and Shining Force games and obscure stuff like Puzzle and Action but I didn't even really get into those on the Genesis. Best thing they had for Genesis fans was probably SEGA Ages Vol. 1, albeit they were arcade ports they were better than the ones on Genesis. Technically it got two Columns games as well but I don't think anybody besides myself cares about that series

>>10141660
Also landstalker.

>>10141654
Was mostly comparing it to Radiant Silvergun, though I will say it's probably a little more unique than Dodonpachi and Sokyugurentai and their hundred clones

>>10141670
Ah, I didn't realize this was a sequel. I've heard good things about it but haven't tried it yet

Perhaps, people didn't really like the genesis, just Sonic and sport games.

>>10137107
They were first on the saturn

>>10141723
And Disney games. Whether it's Toy Story, Aladdin, or World of Illusion, they were also popular on Genesis back in the day.

>>10141845
Yeah, Genesis was basically the console with popular things for the normie kids.

>>10132170
double the ram and add second stick to controller and more online games at launch.

>>10141905
and also remove mil-cd feature to avoid piracy

>>10132170
If it was backed by a competent parent company.

>>10141907
Qrd on mil-cd?

>>10132192
>The Dreamcast had a higher attach rate than the PS2 had in the PS2's first 3 years.

The attach rate does not have to be the same when the total amount of hardware + software sales are higher. You could have had the PS2 with an attach rate half of the Dreamcasts and at 3x the hardware sales that would still amount to significantly higher amount of sold software. A child of six could understand this.

>>10141917
It was a multimedia disc that allowed a small amount of software to boot from CDs without the security ring. It had serious limitations in what it can run, but people managed to use MIL-CD to boot arbitrary code from CDRs, and from there figure out a way to unlock full game loading.

At first it only allowed people to use a hacked cd-changer from the dev SDK to be used as a "boot disc" and load CDR games. Some two years later they figured out how to implement it inside the games and make games selfboot, but the console already stopped being made by that time.

>>10141926
Yeah yeah, point is, the numbers don't behave like piracy. If a console has easy piracy, the number of consoles should be high (because people can't make chips at home), and numbers of games should be low (because nobody's buying games). The Dreamcast saw the opposite, that those who bought a console fucking loved buying games, but not many were buying the console in the first place.

>>10132170
actually going through with the MS merger and making the Xbox a successor

imagine a console launching with fucking halo ce and sonic adventure 2 and tell me it wouldn't be the greatest christmas in gaming history

Flying through these games today, I need an analog controller to play some of these but so far every shmup I've tried is mostly solid. Excited to play these on the TV when I move them onto external storage, they look great using Flycast widescreen hack.

Hopefully soon I can figure out what happened to Yaba Sanshiro 2 so I can play those on here again too, for now I'm just using older version on the TV stick and it works fine. But man these games are fun. Probably tied with PS1 for me, both fantastic consoles. Would've loved to have one of these as a kid

>>10141974
Are you pirate fucks still trying to find ways to cope after almost killing Sega?

>>10142714
>piracy is the same as stealing REEEEEE
I wouldn't be so sure to label piracy as digital theft, and nothing more. different anon here, BTW. Piracy was indeed easy on the Dreamcast except for the last revision among them. However, Piracy was for quite a while rampant on the original Playstation as was it on the 3DO. Back in its day, many people who cared to seek cart and disk copiers such as Game Doctor for both Famicom carts, and the Famicom Disk System peripheral. Even the PC-Engine SNES/Super Famicom had compatible game copier systems that often used Floppies to copy the data and then a tethered IBM PC compatible, Fujistu FM-7, NEC PC-88 or 98, or Fujitsu FM Towns, Later on to be copied to a suitable blank cartridge. Saturn and N64, were quite a ways harder to pirate than their respective predecessors, especially in the N64's case, with its carts being made and constructed differently from the SNES's. That being said even the Saturn, and N64 as well as the PS2 got their checksums and disc reading lockout mechanisms beat by persistent and savvy pirates.

>>10141723
It's one of my favorite consoles ever... but Sega's first party games apparently didn't manage to reach broad audiences except for Sonic, their Disney games and maybe some puntual exceptions like Streets of Rage.
Judging from Wikipedia, they were mostly selling sports games, licenced games and Sonics. The failure of Megadrive in Japan was also a problem, because games like Phantasy Star could have been popular there if only the console was popular to begin with.
The Ecco series are awesome, but for the average Joe they were too weird and hard. Gunstar Heroes and Shinobi 3 are awesome, but these intense arcade games didn't sell as well as games from other genres. And I'm still glad that Sega made or produced them and I'm glad that companies like compile or Technosoft made great shootemups for the console. There was an audience for these games, even if it is wasn't a huge one. It was nice having alternatives to the popular sports games, licenced games, jrpgs, slow platformers with collectathon elements or action adventure games.

>>10132170
Half-Life

>>10142714
I'd be glad if I killed Sega for real. Unfortunately, piracy did not do the job.

>>10143329
Is the leaked version even close to finished? Apparently it plays like ass

>>10142714
I knew tons of people playing pirated PS1 games back then and it didn't kill Sony

>>10142863
Holy wall of text, pirate niggers are something else

>>10143329
That game should be renamed to "Sucks-Ass"

>>10142714
They/them are. They're trying their best to defend piracy by not blaming piracy for Dreamcast's failure. Even though piracy was the main factor the Dreamcast failed. People were pirating games left & right, which hurt the sales of Dreamcast games. Hence why Sega was bleeding money.

>>10144889
If piracy was so bad then it would have affected all other disc game consoles equally. It didn't.

The reasons Dreamcast failed was because the Sega Saturn was a disaster, and didn't sell well outside Japan. For most Westwrn kids, Sega basically disappeared for 5 years after the Sega Genesis. They never saw the Saturn. Then Sega showed up again in 1999 with the Dreamcast.

My friends didn't even know what a Sega Saturn was. I never saw it in stores. We only saw Nintendo 64 and Playstation. So when Sega showed up in 1999 with the Dreamcast we thought, "Huh? A Sega console? Oh.... I remember Sega. They made the Sega Genesis. Cool I guess. But I can't wait for the Playstation 2." Then only 2 friends out of my friend 9 friends bought Dreamcast. The rest of us were waiting for Playstation 2.

>>10144934
False. Everyone knew what the Sega Saturn was, it was advertised heavily & was in store shelfs everywhere. I would know because I ended up owning a Saturn & bought games like Virtua Fighter 2, Street Fighter The Movie The Game, Mortal Kombat Trilogy & many other titles before Sega stopped production of the Saturn. The reason the Saturn failed was because 1) it was $399. 2) the 32X fiasco. 3) PS1 was cheaper. 4) Bernie Stolar.

Neither the PS1 or Sega Saturn were easy to pirate for. Dreamcast was because of the mil-CD exploit. Your story sounds ridiculous & made-up.

>>10145039
>False. Everyone knew what the Sega Saturn was, it was advertised heavily & was in store shelfs everywhere.
Dude you sound like some sort of hardcore Sega fan. Relax.

Maybe in your area, but I was literally a kid during that time. I lived through it. I was the exact target demographic they were selling to. There was hardly any Sega Saturn advertising in my area (major city).

My local EB games didn't have Sega Saturns on display. It was 90% Nintendo 64 and Playstation. Sega was pretty much non-existent to my friend group during the entire generation. No one talked about Sega. After the Genesis, no one cared about Sega.

>>10145039
You are blaming the Sega Saturn failing because of the 32x? LMAO

>>10145039
I like the Sega Saturn. But Sega made some really dumb decisions when they launched that console. They did a surprise launch a few months early, and made everyone angry. The system had barely any games at launch, and it had no Sonic. It was also too expensive. The system sold well in Japan but did poorly in other countries. Sega messed up. They should have had a no normal launch and proper games.

>>10145075
Nta, but it split developing time for the Saturn games, after all the 32x getting the technically "more impressive" ports of Doom, Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter 1 compared to the Saturn is more damaging to sega than anything else.
Also, something something Consumer good will something

>>10145068
I lived in a major city too & it was sold here. There's no way Sega Saturns wouldn't be sold nor advertised in major cities. Small towns maybe, but not major cities. If it's available in my major city, then it's available in all major cities. My EB games store had Sega Saturns too by the way.

>>10145075
Yes because if the 32X never existed, the Sega Saturn would have survived. Instead consumers were mislead to believe that the 32X was Sega's next gen console, instead of the Saturn. When the 32X's lifespan was cut short, that caused the consumers not to trust Sega & they also refused to buy the Saturn.

>>10145090
Oh I agree that Sega made dumb decisions, I even mentioned the expense of the Saturn being a factor.

>>10145039
>the PS1 wasn't easy to pirate for
This nigga be crazy. People were chipping PS1 for $10 in their garage.

>>10145179
If that were true, me & all my friends would have chipped our PS1's long ago. This is simply not the case & it never will be.

>>10142714
List of things that disagree with "PIRATES KILLED DA DREAMCAST":
>Sega executives
>Sega developers
>Third party developers
>Sega's accounting department
List of things that agree with "PIRATES KILLED DA DREAMCAST":
>Third hand anecdotes that got the dates all wrong
>Fake anecdotes that got the technological details all wrong

>>10145198
Perhaps you and your friends were ignorant.

>>10145218
Nope, it just didn't exist.

>>10145204
>No sources.
Try again, pirate.

>>10145239
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzXSZTk-J8A

>>10145238
Bro, no one in my state even knew the back of an original Ps1 disc was black.

The Dreamcast and Saturn only failed because Sony was repeatedly allowed to get away with illegal monopolistic business practices.

>>10132170
more limp bizkit collaboration

>>10132170
instead of having two consoles one for europe and asia and another for murrica they would just need to have the one released for europe and asia,this way lot of games would have been ported,also murrican version was the one that sprread dreamcast piracy like wildfire due to hackers knowing the vulnerabilities of the dreamcast murrican hardware tells you the reasons of why.
Just think that dreamcast got games released up to 2007 in japan officially and unnoficial releases up to 2012.

>>10132192
thing is dreamcast made money with licenses as always so piracy ended up hurting them as well.
on the other hand ps2 made money with hardware sales so piracy didn't affect them it just affected game developers in the run and that is the reason sony is against emulators,take into account this
>sony makes money with hardware sales
>i make a perfect emulator that run all their games while having minimum requirements you just need to have a DVD reader.
>in the long run sony would end up losing money because my emulator will make the console useless.
>even if i started charging money for the emulator as long is cheap i would still make profit while sony would lose more money because people would rather pay a small ammount for a software that allows running ps2 games on PC rather then buying the hardware.
>all because sony makes money selling the hardware.
as was said before the only reason ps2 won was because it made money with hardware sales and not through licenses.

>>10145427
>more limp bizkit collaboration

OMG could you imagine the possibilities?
>Official special edition limp bizkit MP3 VMU player with exclusive seganet song downloads
>fred durst as an unlockable character in more games
>Crazy taxi 2 soundtrack would have "rollin" on it

>>10132570
what are you talking anon?
sega of america wanted that shitty addon because
>we are racking money we don't have to worry about anything,
in fact was like this
>SOJ : we have a new console to be released is 32 bit and can play games in CD along having retro compatibility with megadrive cartridges it will be an inbetween console for the next one and developers can familiarize themselves with the new gen hardware and we will release a new console after that.
>SOA : just make it 2 addons and forget all the optimizations and improvements you made the megadrive will live forever.
this is on the same level as team ninja
>Murrican branch : well we to make the games appealing to new generations,we have to include ugly woman,fat woman and be inclusive with LGBT so let's change the chars lore to appeal to them
>Japan branch : we are going to do what we can without losing sight of our games
>Murrican : NOOOO!!! you have to be inclusive with all the parties to get them to buy our games
>Japan : fuck you we will make the games not oversexualized and sales will talk by themselves.
new game release
>Murrican : see we told you to be inclusive and they are complaining of being too sexualized
>Japan : fuck you!! the murrican branch is over we are gonna sell our games in japan only from now and the sales talked by themselves .

>>10146372
This doesn't make any sense. Sega of Japan is the boss of all branches. Your story makes them look like idiots for letting that happen.

>>10132170
DVD player

Sega to have not fucked up everyday for the 4 years or so before it's release. That's it really.

>>10137376
It's magic. Obviously both consoles forned a big part of my younger years, but if you're a big Saturn fan that loves the arcade titles and the odd ball exclusives then you essentially get more of the same with Segas final hurrah.
I have a decent collection going back years for both consoles (and CDRs burned in the early 2000s) but since I got Fenrir and GDEMU clone last year I've only played these consoles since. I could probably just play them exclusively forever and not get through everything interesting.

>>10132170
>What could have saved it, anons?
A DVD player. Licenced from Sony.

>>10132170
A time machine preventing Sega's retarded decisions with the 32X and Saturn that bled them dry.

>>10146614
>>10146805
Sega wouldn't be able to afford a DVD player while selling the DC at a reasonable price.

>>10132170
FIFA
I
F
A

>>10145198
Everyone had a chipped PS1.

>>10148503
Not true. I've been a reseller for decades and I've seen scores of PS1s that weren't chipped. That doesn't disprove your statement, but the followup does.
One unchipped system I got was marked with some identifying information including a name, in the same handwriting as a GB I already had. It came with a lot of pretty "obscure" piracy stuff so I was intrigued. Also, the previous owner of this stuff was a gurl, so even more bizarre. I tracked her down, and after proving I wasn't a serial killer, met up in a public place. She confirmed that she ever only had that one PS1 and never had a chipped one.
btfo

I got a chipped ps2 in 2004 and never bought a single ps2 game

>>10146336
Ps2 was sold at a loss, faggot, Sony got their money from DVD licensing and their own games.

>>10151327
lol no
maybe you're thinking about PS1 and CD's

>>10132170
A Sony licensed DVD player

>>10150689
You should have picked up a few hundred when they were being sold off at 2 for a dollar. Its comfy.

>>10148503
Untrue.
>>10147471
>Sega wouldn't be able to afford a DVD player while selling the DC at a reasonable price.
exactly.

>>10151373
Consoles have been loss leaders for a long time. Do you really think they were selling near-PC level hardware in 2000 for 300 dollars a unit and making a profit? Sony helped make the DVD and CD, they’ve done loss leaders since the PS1, and did it for every gen after.

>>10151413
>they were selling near-PC level hardware in 2000 for 300 dollars a unit
I can tell you if that was the cost of a PS2 in America, that you guys were the only ones to buy it at Sony's loss

>>10142714
Development costs of Aliens: Colonial Marines killed Sega faster than all of their consoles piracy rates combined

>>10148503
Out of my 4 PSX
I had 3 out of 4 chipped

Signed: Italia.

>>10151413
>Consoles have been loss leaders for a long time.
Nintendo does not sell their consoles at a loss. Thy refuse to do so.