/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10100148
...mera 2000

...mes.
And no Gamera 2000 either.

>>10100163
Cope.

>>10100148
There's only like 5 - 10 good ones though

Sega did too many weird stupid anime crap games

>>10100189
>>/vr/thread/10035545

>>10100148
why is there garbage on your bed?

>>10100148
>no Powerslave

get good

>>10100148
Wow, you should see a doctor about that fecal incontinence. That's a lot of shit on your bed.

>>10100204
Ok? I don't have merican taste in games.

>not just hoarding roms for every console

Batocera has all the games Chud

>>10100148
wheres Bug!?

>>10100148
Very weak compared to the almighty PSX.

Arcade ports.... Panzer Dragoon.... The list goes on.

>>10100163
>>10100529
Based Sony fans

>>10100148
...mes that are worth playing.

All those games are either overrated or playable on other consoles.

>>10100539
Man just look at all that dogshit weebslop, I'd take Mr. Bones over this trash any day

>>10100570
You are a subhuman

>>10100563
What’s the rest of the list

>>10100569
Examples?

>>10100539
Are there any good Saturn games with 3d playable heroines and not just poop gameplay/VN?

The packaging was really cool in all regions (not necessarily the cover art), but the gold label Japanese games with the good art are pure class.

>>10100148
I'd rather play every game there than anything on the n64

>>10100148
Out of all seriousness why is there this crazy level of Saturn hatred on this board? The way some people act on here you'd think it raped their mother and killed their father as a child or something. There's far worse systems in both hardware and software libraries that don't get nearly the same level of trolling and vitriol thrown at it.

It seems every Saturn thread on here eventually devolves into the same arguments between the same handful of people.

>>10100641
Even Charlie Blast??

>>10100148
Any recommendations?

>>10100703
A Playstation

>>10100703
>>10100706
Sorry, I forgot the picture.

>>10100664
>Dreamcast/segafags blaming it for dooming Sega (ex: Bernie poster)
>Overall consolewarring
>Saturnfags becoming "too defensive"
>Anons memeing about every Saturn game being considered a "hidden gem" or something

>>10100664
>Saturn hatred
More like Saturn bullying, and it came about because saturnfags always screech and spread lies about how the Saturn port is the best one for every single game and getting mad when faced with any counterargument like spoiled brats.
Now they'll get swirlies forever.

>>10100723
>Saturn port is the best one for every single game and getting mad when faced with any counterargument like spoiled brats.
Only one i can think of is the SOTN comparison.

>>10100539
Damn how many games arent VNs in this image?

>>10100539
>This is what people who can't draw for themselves and have no creativity to write stories had to resort to buying

>>10100708
Keep Dragon Force II, Shining Force III, Shining the Holy Ark and Steel Assault, you can safely delete the rest as they are just shitty versions, ports or games that got enhanced releases later on

>>10100751
Bomberman battle is cool though.

>>10100734
There's also resident evil but that gets talked about in re threads.
My two saturn cents are the library being mostly in Japanese and being expensive. I like the machine and the games I do have.

>>10100734
Resident Evil and Tomb Raider also come to mind

>>10100828
I don't think anyone ever said Tomb Raider was better on Saturn. Just that it's still Tomb Raider and a good game, even with the performance issues.

Resident Evil it's a decent port with some bonus content.

>>10100664
A big portion of anti-Saturn hate on here is the work of one guy, australia-kun. Same guy who spams floigan, croc, etc.
Anonimity is cool, but it has its issues too.

>>10100823
>>10100828
Never seen a SINGLE person say resident evil is better on the Saturn beyond lighting effects (as far as i recall).
Only thing Saturn has on Tomb Raider is water.

>>10100148
Was expecting a bunch of garbage games but actually some nice ones in there
>Magic Knight Rayearth
>Die Hard Arcade
>Guardian Heroes
>Virtual On
>Sengoku Blade
>Wolf Fang
Not bad anon.

>>10100539
I've played about three of these games and they are just okay compared to the ones in OP. Saturn having only Japanese games is a lie, the first party stuff is better anyway, just like with N64

>>10100737
some of them are menu simulators and jarpigs

>>10100708
Albert Odyssey, the Arcade Gears releases (pu li ru la, gun frontier, wonder 3, imagefight & xmultiply), Astal, Baroque, Batsugun, Battle Garegga, Blast Wind, Saturn Bomberman Fight, Chou Aniki, Cyberbots Full Metal Madness, Darius 2, Digital Pinball Last Gladiators ver .97, Digital Pinball Necronomicon, Donpachi, Dodonpachi, Duke Nukem 3D, Elevator Action Returns, Fantastic Pinball, get the JP version of Fighting Vipers instead (has pepsiman), Galactic Attack, Guardian Force (not heroes,) Gun Griffon 1 & 2, Herc's Adventures, Hissatsu, Hyper Duel,, Keio Flying Squadron 2 (has a 60hz hack from PAL ver,), Legend of Oasis, Layer Section 2, Linkle Liver Story, Mass Destruction, Mizubaku Daibouken, Nekketsu Oyako, Purikura Daisakusen, salamander deluxe pack plus, get the JP version of Sega Rally not the US version, Kingdom Grand Prix, Super Tempo is weird but try it, Three Dirty Dwarves, Thunder Force V, Tryrush Deppy, Virtua Cop 1 and 2

>>10100584
Panzer Dragoon is just Star Fox 64 but worse while Castlevania SOTN is better on the PS1.

>>10101096
shit taste plebe go play your sesame street furshit

>>10100252
KEK

>>10100708
>Sonic 3D Blast
>NiGHTS Into Dreams
>Time Warner Virtua Racing
>Gale Racer
>Advanced V.G
>Hanagumi Taisen Columns
>Pukunpa
>Hyper Duel
>Wolf Fang
>All of the Konami shmups (Gradius Dual Pack, Parodius Dual Pack, Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius, Sexy Parodius, Detana Twinbee Yahho! Deluxe Pack)

Definitely try some of the SEGA Sports games too (NBA Action/98, NHL All-Star Hockey/98, etc). Try not to focus too much on obscure Japanese shmups, first party and Capcom games are the meat of Saturn's quality games

>>10101135
Forgot to mention the Salamander Deluxe Pack, I always forget those games exist

>>10100664
I don't hate Saturn but some of its "fans" (namely the ones who don't actually like SEGA and are constantly starting 'SoA vs SoJ' nonsense) are kind of irritating, also basically this >>10100723

>>10100664
A large proportion of people on 4chan don't even play games not released on nintendo consoles. Sad, but true. The rest are just zoomers parroting shitposts made by the resident spergs because they couldn't even get a Saturn game running if they wanted to >>10099620

>>10100618
burning rangers

>>10100539
>Saturn sold better than the N64 in Japan
>Saturn games in Japan
Do nips really have taste bad enough for embarrassing VNs to help outsell a console that has games like SM64 and OoT?

>>10100865
>Never seen a SINGLE person say resident evil is better on the Saturn beyond lighting effects
There's some Anon I've seen in multiple threads who claims RE looks better on the Saturn and every time someone proves him wrong with comparison images, he just says that it looks like shit because it's not real hardware or some shit.

N64? Unless you like wrestling games (which I do) the rest of that catalog is ass. Collectathons like Mario 64, 00T, or gay ass Banjo the whole repertoire is for children. It seemed cool back in the day because 3D was new, but it didn’t hold up. Saturn aged much better than both PS1 and N64 because it didn’t rely on gimmick 3D graphics that felt short of the mark for a whole generation. Real 3D wasn’t acceptable on consoles until Dreamcast unless it had pre-rendered backgrounds and even then there were compromises.

>>10100618
Genshin Impact

>>10101806
I prefer it over N64 but not nearly as much as PS1 or Dreamcast. N64 didn't even get Street Fighter or Mega Man X4 which is kind of sad considering its predecessor. SEGA CD will always be the true 2D powerhouse to me, though.

>>10100618
It's not 3D but I really enjoyed what I played of Magic Knight Rayearth

>>10101806
Didn't Saturn and N64 have mostly equal sales numbers? Maybe Saturn sold a bit more, but in compensation, N64 sold more software.
PS1 obviously sold bonkers, and they better, since they burned so much money on advertising and even paid for advertising of 3rd parties (Sony paid the multi-million FF VII ad campaign). Sony consoles are also very prone to failure, especially their early models, so I never trust their sales numbers 100%, a lot of those are people having to buy the console again... still, not saying the console isn't popular, but I don't attribute it entirely to it being a great system. I actually prefer Saturn + N64 combo (best 2D and best 3D of 5th gen respectively). PS1 is good but kind of jack of all trades, master of none.

>>10102254
>Didn't Saturn and N64 have mostly equal sales numbers? Maybe Saturn sold a bit more, but in compensation, N64 sold more software
In japan? No.

>>10102258
Well I seem to remember N64 having more million sellers than Saturn in Japan, but who knows with those sales charts and the sources. Still, I think they were mostly equal. The big difference was between PS1 and the other two.

>>10102258
Yes
>Saturn 6 million
>N64 5.54 million

>>10100664
People already pretend the Dreamcast was good, so there's no room for any more pretending and in fact, it has the opposite effect of creating hate that's somewhat exaggerated

>>10102258
>>10102267
This shit blows my mind. What the FUCK happened the N64? And how the fuck did Sega go under? Nothing makes sense. What's real? Why are we here just to suffer?

>>10100583
Burning Rangers.... Uhh.... Sonic 3D Blast
... The list goes on.

>>10102354
>What the FUCK happened the N64?
It sold 3x more than Saturn worldwide and more games

>>10102363
>Sega Saturn
>1046 games

>Nintendo 64
>388 games

>>10102369
Don't need numbers n64 fags should know every gaemz that's on it

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate Mokona

>>10102369
N64 did have more games in western territories though. Saturn only had 258 games in North America, N64 had 296. Most of the Japanese Saturn library is stuff like >>10100539 anyway, outside of the Konami shmups and a few fun puzzlers.

>>10102267
I was talking about the sofrware part.

>>10102369
>1046 games
And not a single good one, at that.

>>10102645
Cope.

I love the Saturn, never owned one as a kid, only got into it when I was older via emulation. It has a weird, somewhat specific library and if you enjoy those specific genres you’ll have a blast, otherwise it’s not for you. It’s as simple as that. I feel like the neo Geo falls in this category of “fun if you like that kind of stuff” type console as well.

>>10102668
As much as you do? Impossible.

>>10102645
I wouldn't go that far. Most of the first party games and stuff by Capcom is solid, similar to N64 with first party and Rare/Midway games. Neither of them have as many as PS1 though

>>10101806
No, most sales were due to Virtua Fighter which was huge in nippon. Japs bought the Saturn to play literally one game, which results in a loss when you’re selling the console as a loss leader and looking to make back your money from game royalties.

Saturn kinda mogs hard bros…..it’s crazy…..

>>10100664
Pal, when it’s a tossup between the Saturn and the fucking 3D0, you know you’ve lost the plot

>>10102895
It's 3DO and people usually compare the Saturn to N64 or PS1 which it rolls the former but can't hold up to the latter.

"It looks so perfect", is what every retard claims
They're petrified to say the Saturn has no games
"So bloody perfect", is the mantra in their brains
But deep down they all know that the Saturn has no games
Just so you know
It went down in flames

>>10102895
I just like 3DO because it reminds me of SEGA CD. Saturn has more games, but it should've been better for 1995 and being made by the same company that made the Genesis

>>10102258
saturn definitely had less game sales. it was a virtua fighter and sakura wars machine

>>10103229
3do has epic kusovlge, it’s hard to believe some of them were released unironically

>>10102354
The PC Engine was huge in Japan, soundly trouncing the Mega Drive. When NEC shit the bed with the PC-FX it left a vacuum over there which gave the Saturn an early boost but ultimately just made the PS1 even MORE dominant. Since no such event happened in the west because the TG16 was a non-starter the Saturn lagged out of the gate which helped the N64 since it was effectively a two man race by 1996.

>>10100189
what? why?

>>10103632
I still need to play most of the kusoge on it, so far I'm more interested in the good games lol. I did play Mind Teazzer though

>>10100148
I wish they would have held back Burning Rangers for Dreamcast like they did with Shenmue.

>>10102886
>No, most sales were due to Virtua Fighter which was huge in nippon.
Virtua Fighter's total sales are about 700k give or take. Saturn sold almost 6 million consoles in Japan. If people were only buying it for Virtua Fighter a whole bunch must have bought one just to stare at it on a shelf.

Even if we go by Virtua Fighter 2 which sold about 1.7 Million in Japan, that's still leaves over 2/3 of Japanese Saturn owners not getting it for Virtua Fighter.

>Japs bought the Saturn to play literally one game
Saturn had a a software attachment rate of 9:1.

>>10103852
Or alternatively it's 1/3 of Saturn owners who ONLY bought it for Virtua Fighter. That's a giant chunk of people who bought Saturns for the one game and then high tailed it to PS1. Consider that the N64 has something like ten million sellers in Japan while the Saturn has like two. Sega started getting ass fucked pretty quickly once the PS1 started getting going and didn't have the support of first party software to keep it afloat the way Nintendo did.

Man, the US Saturn library is frustrating. There's only about 30 games I'd even want to own but it'd be like $4000. Say what you will about the N64 having only 15 good games, at least those are reasonable to get.

>>10100148
Literally no one who lived through the 5th gen, or has a moderate knowledge of those systems believes that. Stop posting thinly veiled gay little console wars threads, retard.

>>10100148
People still care about arcade ports on 32bit consoles in the year 2013+10 and that's way beyond me. MAME isn't that hard to set up, idiots.

>>10102679
You didn't even try half of those. Not even for 1 (one) minute. Poser.

>>10102369
>N64
>32 million units sold

>Sega Saturn
>9 million units sold

All those games yet people only care for 10% of them.

>>10104487
>Or alternatively it's 1/3 of Saturn owners who ONLY bought it for Virtua Fighter.
It's not even a third, it's maybe 1/4. Which if we want to play that game then we can say about 1/4 of PS1 owners only bought it for Final Fantasy VII.

>Consider that the N64 has something like ten million sellers in Japan while the Saturn has like two.
Saturn overall still sold more software in Japan. Total sales from Famtisu charts is about 35 Million games for Saturn vs 24 Million for N64. That doesn't account for total sales after they stopped making the Famitsu weekly charts or games that didn't make the weekly charts. So total shipped in Japan is around 39 Million for N64 and about 54 Million for Saturn. Sure N64 first party stuff may have sold more, but once you get out of those 10-20 games the sales fall off a cliff in Japan. Third party sales were horrible on N64.

Saturn on the other hand may not have had as many million sellers, it had more games selling overall and third party games were right up there with the first party games selling decent numbers. Which considering how much cheaper it was to print CDs vs cartridges those sales still aren't bad. I wouldn't be surprised if third parties made more money on Saturn than they did on N64.

>>10105854
More than that. I have 23 and that's $5000.

>>10106563
I guess it depends on the games to some extent. Panzer Dragoon Saga and Rayearth will run $3000 for just those two games. I'm pretty sure $50 is the floor for anything but Madden 97 and the like, which still might be as high as $30.

>>10100148
all I see there are crap arcade ports, a few multiplatform titles which are all better on other systems, and panzer dragoon 1-3, keio flying squadron, and baku baku. So five good games.

>>10106385
>Saturn overall still sold more software in Japan.

Who gives a fuck, it was outsold 1 to 50 in every other region and pushed Sega so far behind in the console race that they nearly went bankrupt and had to exit the console business.

>>10106825
>Who gives a fuck
Maybe you should pay attention to what you're replying to? The discussion was about how Saturn did in Japan.
>pushed Sega so far behind in the console race.
No, that was 32X.
>that they nearly went bankrupt.
No, that was Dreamcast.

The Saturn did okay in Japan. Not great but okay. Which I guess is a step up from the Mega Drive, which got routed, and Dreamcast which fell on its face early on worldwide.

>>10106292
I like the comfort of being able to play at home on approved hardware
Besides the same argument can be made for consoles
>People still care about 5th/4th/3rd gen consoles in the year 2013+10 . Emulators aren't that hard to set up, idiots.

>>10100148
ys

>>10100664
because of dumb faggots like >>10106989

>>10108028
To be fair to that post, Shenmue alone was probably just as damaging to sega as the Saturn itself.

>>10108061
The big issue with Sega's financials in the late 90s boils down to two things.

The first is that Sega of America had a shitload of unsold inventory sitting in warehouses, a lot of which was Genesis and Game Gear hardware and games. There was some Saturn stuff in there too, but no where near the amount of Genesis and Game Gear inventory. We know this for a fact now from the recently leaked inventory reports. This stock got written off and dumped around 1998 which is why so much Genesis and Game Gear stuff started showing up in stores at this time. This is why Sega reported a massive loss in FY98 and is backed up in their FY98 report.

The second issue is that the Dreamcast in 1998 and 1999 was expensive to produce. It was already being sold at a loss in Japan in 1998, and in the US the price was cut to $199 for it's launch. This isn't always a problem if software sells well enough to make up the difference. But on Dreamcast this wasn't happening. This wasn't due to piracy yet, as that would be a problem years later. The reason software sales weren't enough to make up the difference is because the massive loss on the hardware required an insanely high attach rate.

Sure Dreamcast did well at launch, but after launch things started to slow down significantly. In order to keep hype and momentum going, Sega of America chose to keep lowering the price of the hardware until they were practically giving it away. This pretty much created a full blown hemorrhage and bled the company to death.

>>10108061
Every Saturn dweeb will post the exact same shit as nauseam.
>but what they could have done...
>if instead they...
>actually Sega of America...
>Well the N64 in Japan...
>Well the Dreamcast...
No one cares. Every single thread, the exact same shit for years. The console failed. It failed everywhere, even in Japan. It lost millions of dollars everywhere, even in Japan. It's a forgotten console with no memorable or reveared games, even in Japan. And yet there's always some contrarian weeb in every thread playing make believe or armchair CEO trying to pretend none of this happened.
Imagine being on a DVD forum and some small group of weirdos keeps constantly going into every thread talking about how Laserdisc totally could have been a success if 14 different things happened exactly the right way, and public opinion shifted for no reason.

>>10108082
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The big issue with Saturn financials is that no one bought a Saturn. Just like Disney's current financial issues are no one wants Disney+
But instead we get this long spiel of bullshit about how the Saturn was actually a failure because of the Dreamcast. Disney+ is actually mega successful and everyone loves it, it's just because they produced too many VHS of Snow White that the company is failing.

>>10108129
Not to mention the Genesis and Game Gear had more inventory because they had more actual games. Genesis had at least 700 which lasted through the Saturn's entire lifespan (ending off with Frogger in 1998), while Saturn only got a measly 258 in North America. SNES and Game Boy probably had tons of games in warehouses as well, doesn't mean they were a failure. Only Saturn fans are like this, everybody else just likes SEGA or is indifferent towards them

>>10108129
>The big issue with Saturn financials.
And this is what I'm talking about. The issue isn't just Saturn. It was the company as a whole. The post you're replaying to is talking about SEGA's Financials, not just Saturn financials.
>no one bought a Saturn
And this comes down more to Sega of America completely fucking up and betting on the 32X and not getting ready for a Saturn launch like they should have been doing.
>But instead we get this long spiel of bullshit about how the Saturn was actually a failure because of the Dreamcast.
No one said this. The statement was that Sega didn't start bleeding money and go bankrupt until the Dreamcast days. Maybe you should work on your reading skills?

>>10108154
>Not to mention the Genesis and Game Gear had more inventory because they had more actual games.
The amount of Game Gear Hardware and Peripherals they had sitting in warehouses almost exceeded their entire total Saturn inventory (Systems + Peripherals + Software). The same is true for 32X hardware alone. And Genesis Hardware and Peripherals is almost 3x the amount of total Saturn inventory they had.

So no, it's not just "they had more games". It's that they had a shit ton of unsold hardware and peripherals on top of a shit ton of games that they were sitting on dating back to the early 90s.

>>10108120
>Every Saturn dweeb will post the exact same shit as nauseam.
That happens because every time someone posts the same tired statements from over a decade ago. And every time people point to actual facts that show those arguments don't hold water. So every thread it plays out like this:

>The Japanese only bought a Saturn for Virtua Fighter!
Virtua Fighter 2's sales aren't even 1/3 of the systems install base in Japan.
>Sales tanked after Virtua Fighter and Launch!
But the year it sold the most hardware was 1996, 2 years after Virtua Fighter and a year after Virtua Fighter 2. Sales didn't fall off until 1997 when FF7 and DQ7 came out on PS1, and Sega announced the Dreamcast.
>It didn't really beat the N64, it barely sold more hardware!
Mostly because the plug got pulled early.
>N64 sold more software! Look at those million sellers at the top of the charts!
But sales fall off a cliff outside the top 20 or so and third party sales were a joke. As a result Saturn actually sold more software overall when you look at totals from Famitsu charts and the total shipped numbers.
>It was all porn games!
The sales charts say otherwise.
>OMG WHO FUCKING CARES YOU STUPID SATURN WEEBS!

That's how it plays out almost every single time. If you don't like it then stop posting the same shit that's easily disproven at this point. Get some new arguments to shitpost.

>>10107791
I agree and think this is why console warring is dumb. For all the bluster of the Saturn having great games I almost never see them talked about outside of NiGHTs. The neurotic defense of the Saturn isn't because it's games are good, but because it allows people to indulge in a fantasy of Sega failing because of western betrayal & incompetence. In reality Sega could've never competed with Sony's vertical integration and they were destined to die the moment Sony entered the business.

>>10108342
>For all the bluster of the Saturn having great games I almost never see them talked about outside of NiGHTs.
That's because every time someone posts a list people go:
>But those don't count because they're arcade ports!
>But those don't count because they have a bad Windows 95 PC Port!
>But those don't count because they later got an inferior PS1 port!
>But those don't count because there's a modern remaster/rerelease!
>But those don't count because I don't like them!

As stated previously, the Saturn for some reason is held to this extremely silly and petty standard no other system on this board is held to. It seems there's a handful of people here who just flat out hate the system and go out of their way to just ruin any discussion about it.

>>10108373
Sometimes i see the same stuff being saud about the DC.

>>10108373
>a list
That's my point. The Saturn has little games that promote actual discussion of their merits. Instead there's just lists thrown around to "prove" the Saturn was good. Who exactly is this for?

>>10108387
>The Saturn has little games that promote actual discussion of their merits.
There's plenty of them. The issue is that any actual discussion gets ruined by shitposting on this board.
> Instead there's just lists thrown around to "prove" the Saturn was good. Who exactly is this for?
That generally happens when people go "Saturn has no games! What good games does it have?" So a list gets posted of good games, and the same excuses listed here >>10108373 get posted.

>>10100148
-MES, I DON'T WHY
DOESN'T MATTER HOW HARD I TRY
KEEP THAT IN MIND WHILE I JUSTIFY

>>10108394
>There's plenty of them. The issue is that any actual discussion gets ruined by shitposting on this board.
Again you can see the conspiracy I mentioned in >>10108342 in action. It's not enough for the West to destroy the Saturn, the West must also piss on its grave and ruin any good discussion. Or so the conspiracy claims.

>>10108418
What games do you want to discuss? There's the Panzer Dragoon series, Virtua Fighter/Fighting Vipers/Fighters Megamix, Dead or Alive, Last Bronx, Sonic R, Sonic 3D Blast, Sonic Jam, Shining Force III, Shining the Holy Ark, Die Hard Arcade, Quake, Duke Nukem 3D, Powerslave, Virtual On, Guardian Heroes, Sega Rally, Daytona USA/CCE, Saturn Bomberman, Saturn Bomberman Fight, Sakura Wars, Grandia, Lunar, Baroque, Stellar Assault SS, Bulk Slash, Devil Summoner, Soul Hackers, Megaman 8, X4, Resident Evil, any Capcom CPS2 port, any SNK/Neo Geo port, Burning Rangers, NiGHTS, Croc, Sega Ages line, Astal, Thunder Force V, Radiant Silvergun, Silhouette Mirage, Magic Knight Rayearth, Albert Odyssey, Dragon Force 1 and 2, Mystaria, Gungriffon, etc.

Take your pick. Which one do you want to have a discussion about?

>>10108414
>I tried so hard...

>>10108440
Mega Man X4 is an interesting game that flies against the claims that the Saturn was always better for 2D, since it had to use dithering to simulate transparency while the PS1 release could do the real thing. Of course, the dithering wouldn't have been noticeable on composite, but that comes with degrading the game's overall visuals. Almost no one plays games on composite anymore and games are now judged on how they look through RGB. This intent on using the TV to "pick up the slack" so to speak was also present with Genesis games to a much greater degree. Smart ideas for their time but have definitely played into one reason among many as to why Nintendo games have better stood the test of time, at least in the eyes of public opinion, since it seems they were always designed for sharp displays (eg Nintendo testing Famicom games on a RGB-modded Famicom).

>>10108394
theres shitposting about literally every single game brought up here. Shockingly, because they actually have merit and relevance, it doesn't nuke the conversation about them.
The reason you hear nothing but shitposting about Saturn games is because they're not relevant. almost the entire list you posted here >>10108440 are ports. Whether of arcade games, PS1 games, or PC games. Them being on the Saturn means nothing unless you're some contrarian weeb who must play the game on the epic nippon console (which doesn't even make sense because it sold 1/5th of the playstation even in Japan) and let everyone know you play the SATURN version on your SATURN
No one cares about striped down console versions of Quake, and Duke Nukem, or Dead or Alive, and Street Fighter on any console. No one cares that Tomb Raider or Resident Evil was on the Saturn when 99.9% of the public played them on Playstation and the game are functionally identical.
People discuss the N64 and talk about Zelda, Mario, Banjo, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, and Goldeneye. People discuss the PS1 and talk about FF7, Crash, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Twisted Metal, and Spyro.
Put the same limitations on the Saturn, you're talking about Panzer Dragoon, Bug, Mr. Bones, and Nights. There are no "Saturn games" theres just a bunch of ports and multiplats that have zero reason to be played on the Saturn unless you're some super special unique snowflake who has to let everyone know you're playing a game on the SATURN the super cool amazing Japanese console from Japan

>>10108492
I didn't wanna play into their shitposting game but it is funny that they listed Sonic Jam. I'm gonna start calling the PS2 the best console ever because you can play nearly every /vr/ Sonic and Mega Man game on it.

>>10108508
Its such a hilarious list because you could literally do 90% of the list for the PS1 AND add in about 35-50 actual exclusives. I mean imagine naming Duke Nukem 3D, or Quake as a Saturn title and pretending you're making a good faith argument

>>10108478
>>10108492
And like clockwork here we go. Games that are good solid games in their own right are being discounted and shit on for petty silly reasons.

>People discuss the N64 and talk about Zelda, Mario, Banjo, Star Fox, Donkey Kong, and Goldeneye. People discuss the PS1 and talk about FF7, Crash, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Twisted Metal, and Spyro. Put the same limitations on the Saturn, you're talking about Panzer Dragoon, Bug, Mr. Bones, and Nights.

Let's put the same limitations you're throwing against Saturn on PS1 and N64.

>Mario
>Zelda
>Banjo
>Star Fox
>Donkey Kong
>Goldeneye
All have ports and remasters on other systems. They don't count.

>FF7
>Crash
>Metal Gear Solid
>Spyro
>Twisted Metal
All have ports and remasters on other systems. They don't count.

No one says Street Fighter II, Gradius III, Parodius, etc. on SNES, Strider, Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, Golden Axe, etc. on Genesis don't count as good games just because they're arcade portst. No one says Final Fantasy VII doesn't count on PS1 because it had a PC port. No one says Resident Evil 2 doesn't count as a good PS1 game just because it later got ported to the N64. No one says Resident Evil 2 doesn't count as a good N64 game just because it's a port. So why do we have to put this ridiculous standard against Saturn that no one puts against any other system?

>>10108508
>I didn't wanna play into their shitposting game but it is funny that they listed Sonic Jam.
Sonic Jam is interesting because they're actual ports with new features added that the simple emulation compilations don't have. There's also the 3D Sonic World content. That's why it was listed.
>>10108518
>Its such a hilarious list because you could literally do 90% of the list for the PS1
Out of that list about 60% are either exclusive or were originally made for the Saturn and only later got ported to other systems.

>I mean imagine naming Duke Nukem 3D, or Quake as a Saturn title
Just because they're ports doesn't mean they stop being good games worth playing.

>>10108518
I do wonder about the Saturn guy's mental state. Surely someone can tell the difference between FF7, a game that escalated the PS1's popularity, and Sonic Jam, a rerelease of Genesis games? They can't be that delusional, right? So why keep up the shitposting? They've been at it for years. They're someone I wish I could have a drink with, but only once.

>>10108538
> Surely someone can tell the difference between FF7, a game that escalated the PS1's popularity, and Sonic Jam, a rerelease of Genesis games?

Who said that was the intended comparison? For FF7 why compare it to Sonic Jam instead of all the JRPGs in that list?

>>10108518
But doesn't have teh saturn Duke possible online play feature so its above the psx version don't need to bring 64 Duke here

>>10108525
>All have ports and remasters on other systems. They don't count.
Are you really trying to say collections or ports made 5, 10, sometimes 20 years after release are the same as the Saturn and Playstation versions being available at the exact same time or within a year of each other and with no to extremely minor changes? Of half the list being arcade games that weren't even released outside Japan? Of absolutely no one heralding Duke Nukem, or Quake as a PS1 or N64 game because everyone knows they're shitty ports of PC games?
Are you really gonna go that fucking far to try to delude yourself?

>>10108478
The Saturn has additional heatwave effects in the intro stage and Magma Dragoon's that are missing from the PS1 though. The dual VDPs of the Saturn meant certain things were easier to do since you could offload a background to an entirely separate GPU but other things that involve multiple layers were harder like transparencies since, again, the image was composed across two separate GPUs.

>>10108574
>Are you really trying to say collections or ports made 5, 10, sometimes 20 years after are the same as the Saturn and Playstation versions being available at the exact same time or within a year of each other and with no to extremely minor changes?
Final Fantasy VII, Twisted Metal, Wipeout, Metal Gear solid, etc. all had PC ports available within a year of their release on PS1. The compilation and HD remaster logic also gets used against Saturn games like NiGHTS, Dragon Force, Panzer Dragoon, Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, etc. all the time. So if that logic gets thrown at those Saturn games we need to be fair and throw it at PS1 and N64 games.
> Of half the list being arcade games that weren't even released outside Japan?
Who in 2023 cares if a game is Japan only on a retro console? Secondly a lot of those arcade ports still have unique content you can't get on other systems or in some cases are more accessible than trying to get the arcade original.
> Of absolutely no one heralding Duke Nukem, or Quake as a PS1 or N64 game because everyone knows they're shitty ports of PC games?
They come up in N64 discussions quite frequently.

>>10108548
>why compare it to Sonic Jam instead of all the JRPGs in that list?
Ok lets do that.
>Panzer Dragoon
Janky mash up with slow boring gameplay and pacing. A low tier jrpg on the same level as Jade Cocoon, or Guardian Heroes. Only notable due to its extreme rarity. Both previous games that stuck to the shooter genre were much better.
>Shining Force
Good series of SRPGs. Their blobbers are boring, terrible and outdated.
>Sakura Wars
A VN pretending to be a game
>Grandia
On the PS1 with basically no differences besides sprite flipping and the floor tiles in the first town
>Lunar
On PS1 with no differences
>Albert Odyssey
Full on shovelware slop

>>10108537
>Just because they're ports doesn't mean they stop being good games worth playing.
But why would you play them on Saturn? I mean, sure, if it's 1997 and you happened to have a Saturn as your main then-current gen system, great. But I can't imagine being in the mood to play Quake in 2023 and settling on the Saturn version unless you're a big Quake fan and want all the different ports for the sake of variety.

>>10108591
>all had PC ports available within a year of their release on PS1
Ports of the PS1 game. That was made for the PS1, and that everyone played on the PS1. Not stripped down ports of games made for other consoles or platforms.
>Who in 2023 cares if a game is Japan only on a retro console?
Who in 2023 is playing any arcade game on the Saturn? Is this really the road you want to take? Where the Saturn becomes even more irrelevant
>They come up in N64 discussions quite frequently.
No they dont.

I don't think it's fair to judge a console library based on how often the games were ported in the decades since. Yes in the current year there's no pressing reason to bust out the Saturn version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 or Sonic Jam. But back then there weren't a billion ways to play those games and they were often the best versions available. Sonic Jam came out in 1997. Emulation was in its infancy. I'm not even sure Genecyst was out yet.

>>10108592
>Janky mash up with slow boring gameplay and pacing.
The same argument could be made about countless JRPGs.
>A low tier jrpg on the same level as Jade Cocoon, or Guardian Heroes.
Today I learned a Beat'em Up with RPG elements is in the same genre as Final Fantasy VII.
>On the PS1 with basically no differences besides sprite flipping and the floor tiles in the first town
And again this is silly logic to use against games like Grandia and Lunar. If you're allowed to include Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy VIII, Metal Gear Solid, Wipeout, Twisted Metal, etc. on PS1 lists when they had a PC ports released a year or so later, why can't Grandia be included in a Saturn list?
>>10108594
>Why play them on Saturn in 2023?
Why play Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, Metal Gear Solid, Crash, Spyro, etc. on PS1 when they're available on every modern system under the sun? Why play Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Banjo, Conker, Diddy Kong Racing, Mario Kart 64, etc. on N64 when they're available on just about every Nintendo console, handheld, or Microsoft console that came after?

>>10108478
>Mega Man X4 is an interesting game that flies against the claims that the Saturn was always better for 2D, since it had to use dithering to simulate transparency while the PS1 release could do the real thing.

Isn't that because the spotlights are drawn with vectors? In other words, they are closer to being drawn like a 3D polygon than a 2D sprite.

Also because of the way the VDP 1 and 2 worked it would have likely erased some other sprites or tiles appearing behind the spotlight depending which VDP they were being processed on. That simulator that has been posted before gives a good example.

>Almost no one plays games on composite anymore and games are now judged on how they look through RGB.

Are you serious? There is always at least one CRT thread on this board, some even argue they use RF. There is currently a thread where people are being autistic about what colors from an NES are "authentic". Mind you, I just use modern screens and try to find ways to get RGB or even HDMI mods on my consoles, but to claim nobody uses composite when there are nonstop threads here of people obsessed with it is asinine.

>>10108537
>Sonic Jam is interesting because they're actual ports with new features added that the simple emulation compilations don't have.

This is pretty much the only reason I have any interest in Sonic Jam, they are not emulated, we haven't seen ports of the Sonic games again until the recent disaster that is Sonic Origins.

Why can't you fags just be happy with playing vidya?

>>10108626
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I find the fighting stupid. Why are people still engaging on console wars from battles that were decided three decades ago? It's also silly to argue there is no reason to own just about any of the major systems, all of them had exclusives worth playing, even if some had far more than others. You would have to get into total garbage like the CD-I or even further with something like the gamecom to argue something has utterly nothing worth playing. I believe even the N-Gage had a single exclusive that was good.... the Hyperscan not so much, pretty much all of that was just as trash as the gamecom, if not even more trash.

>>10108603
>Ports of the PS1 game. That was made for the PS1, and that everyone played on the PS1. Not stripped down ports of games made for other consoles or platforms.
So with that logic Grandia, Lunar, Thunder Force V, Silhouette Mirage, Baroque, Soul Hackers, Devil Summoner, etc. should all count as Saturn games since the later versions were ports of Saturn games, that were made for Saturn, that most people played first on Saturn (at least in Japan). And they're not stripped down ports made for other consoles or platforms.
>Who in 2023 is playing any arcade game on the Saturn
Who in 2023 is playing any Final Fantasy on PS1?
>No they dont.
For a while there was literally a "Quake on Saturn vs N64" thread just about every week.

>>10108616
>The same argument could be made about countless JRPGs.
Except even people who play tons of jrpgs point out how aimless and boring PD is.
>Today I learned a Beat'em Up with RPG elements is in the same genre as Final Fantasy VII.
I meant Guardians Crusade. And I'd love to know the similarities between Sakura Wars and FF7
>hurr durr everything got ported
Ported from the console everyone associates them with retard. This isn't a argument about console exclusives, its an argument about games. No one associates RE or Tomb Raider as a Saturn game. No one associates Quake or Duke as anything but a PC title. No one associates Daytona or House of the Dead with anything but an arcade.
The Saturn has no homegrown titles outside fucking Bug. It has no associations. It has no nostalgia. And you know all of this, which is why you're desperately trying to flip the conversation to exclusives instead of what it was actually about, which is the Saturn has no games that needed to be or were associated with being played on a fucking Saturn

>>10108636
>that most people played first on Saturn (at least in Japan).
I bet this isn't true for most of them. No way Saturn games outsold PS1 ports in any region.

>>10108636
>that most people played first on Saturn (at least in Japan)
Both Lunar and Grandia sold more on the PS1 than the Saturn in Japan.
>For a while there was literally a "Quake on Saturn vs N64" thread just about every week.
Do you think Croc is one of the 10 most popular retro games?

>>10108645
>People didn't play this game on a Saturn and didn't know it was on a Saturn
NTA, but this is such a little thing to be autistic over.

>>10108645
>And I'd love to know the similarities between Sakura Wars and FF7
I didn't make a comparison of FF7 to Sakura Wars. If anything it would be more in line with an SRPG like Fire Emblem. Which makes sense since a lot of the newer Fire Emblem games have pulled elements form Sakura Wars.
>Except even people who play tons of jrpgs point out how aimless and boring PD is.
I play quite a bit of JPRGs and I found Panzer Dragoon Saga to be enjoyable and fun.
>Ported from the console everyone associates them with retard.
So again with that logic games like Grandia, Soul Hackers, Devil Summoner, Lunar Remakes, Baroque, etc. should be in the Saturn list?

>>10108657
>guys look at all these amazing Saturn games!
>"Almost all of those games are ports that have no relation with the Saturn whatsoever. Most people didn't even know a Saturn version existed and never played it."
>Wow why are you being so autistic and shitposting about the amazing Saturn library?

>>10108665
I'm not the OP, and this doesn't make your point look any better either.

>>10108665
If they are ports then there shouldn't be an issue with people choosing to play either version.

>>10108662
No one associates Grandia or Lunar as Saturn games. Because no one played them on the Saturn. No one knows what Devil Summoner or Baroque is because they were on the Saturn.
Once again you're obsessed with exclusivity and ignoring the actual point of the argument because you know you can't win it, and never could. Because I called out exactly how you act with my very first post. You had the list all those games and let everyone know you play the Saturn versions because you're very unique and special, even though no one considers them as Saturn games, never played them on the Saturn, no one outside of Japan even knows they ever released on it, and even the people in Japan played other versions.
You are a clown. You are a joke of a person who has made a 30 year old piece of plastic their personality because Japan kind of liked it.

>>10108676
>>10108668
Best PS1 games
Madden 97
Madden 98
NBA Live 99
FIFA 01
Frogger
Quake 2
Grandia
Harvest Moon

>>10108681
OK? What exactly is the point here?

>How DARE you like the same game on a different system!
>How DARE you PLAY those variants!

Speaking of stuff specific to the Saturn, what about those MPEG versions of games? Does any Saturn emulator even support the MPEG card? I saw some emulators have a place to load the BIOS for the card, but apparently no public dump exists and the emulator despite letting you tell it where the BIOS for it is does not support it anyway.

Are there even any good dumps of those games? They don't appear to be in any redump sets, and of non-redump sets the only game I could find in any of them was the MPEG version of Lunar. Which I question if it was even dumped correctly because any attempts to extract the MPEG files gives me corrupted nonsense. Or were the MPEG disks just in a very weird format that almost no imaging software reads correctly since they appear to have two data tracks?

*gulps*

I...I-I'm sorry, ok?! I was just trolling when I called it the shiturn, I-I swear! *sweat becomes more evident* please, you have to believe me! I didn't mean it *gets on her knees, starts to beg with hands clasped together* what can I do to show you I'm sorry?? Please, I-...I'll....I'll do anything!.. Oh god...no, no not that.... I can't....no,, no you can't,.... you can't make me...what are you doing *she starts to scream* SOMEBODY! ANYBODY!! HELP!!! PLEASE HEEEEEEELP! THEY'RE *voice becomes muffled* MHFGMFH!! HELEMDASPSD!!!...

>>10108606
How do you judge a console in the age of emulation? This is a retro board but pretending to be a 90s Japanese dude deciding whether to buy the PS1 or Saturn because he can't play arcade games is retarded. At the end of the day consoles are just tools for playing games, and tools depreciate over time. The only use for discussing if a certain retro console is good in 2023 is if you play on real hardware and are wanting to know what to spend money on, since otherwise you'll just emulate the best version out there. But OP intentionally started shit and is now crying that he got hit.
>>10108623
A handful of anons preferring composite doesn't change that most people play retro on RGB screens. Preferring composite is a niche within the niche of gaming on CRTs. Whether that's "correct" is a different story of course, I just wanted to point out another reason why Nintendo ended up being more fondly remembered.

>>10108440
Post your collection. I mean, you do own and have played most of these games right? You didn't just emulate the Saturn version of them for no reason?

>>10108712
>A handful of anons preferring composite doesn't change that most people play retro on RGB screens.

An "RGB" screen does jack shit if you are connecting it by composite still. pretty much none of these systems had RGB/component out cables, they all came with composite if you were lucky, if not, RF. Not even systems that natively supported RGB/Component and had official cables for them like the PS2, GC, and Xbox came with them in the box and were an optional purchase.

So to argue that "most people play on RGB screens" is pretty misleading, as the vast majority of people who still have an old console plugged in are just plugging those same composite cables it came with into their fancy new TV.

>>10108651
According to Famitsu charts, Grandia, both Lunars, Soul Hackers, Thunder Force V, etc. all sold more on Saturn in Japan. Some like Baroque and Silhuoette Mirage didn't even chart on PS1, while they did on Saturn.

>>10108678
>No one associates Grandia or Lunar as Saturn games.
Considering the backlash the Grandia HD remaster got because it was based on the PS1 version instead of the Saturn version seems to indicate a lot of people associate it with the Saturn. And considering how infamous Vic Irelands spat over Lunar on Saturn is, I think again it's safe to assume people associate those games with Saturn.
>Once again you're obsessed with exclusivity
No, that's you that's you. Every time someone starts talking about good Saturn games you're the first to start going "ACKCHYUALLY THOSE DON'T COUNT BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT EXCLUSIVE!"
>You are a clown. You are a joke of a person who has made a 30 year old piece of plastic their personality because Japan kind of liked it.
You're the one literally getting mad because people like a system you hate.

>>10100539
>"games"

>>10108725
answer me >>10108716

>>10108716
>>10108732
NTA but what difference would that make? I had a PS1 growing up, but most the ps1 games i played were on emulation.

>>10108724
>So to argue that "most people play on RGB screens" is pretty misleading, as the vast majority of people who still have an old console plugged in are just plugging those same composite cables it came with into their fancy new TV.
That's the confusion. I doubt most people are playing /vr/ stuff on real hardware, but through emulators and/or rereleases with crisp, clear screens.

>>10108716
>>10108732
If you really want me to I can, but it will take a while to get pictures of it all.

>>10108730
>um... le excuse me??? mario is um missing????!??!
shut up nerd

>>10108831
cartoon slide shows aren't sonic le hedgehog

>>10108840
And that's all the Sega games you know, lets clap for the little tendie, lost on his way to his ritual ocarina thread.

>>10108747
>I doubt most people are playing /vr/ stuff on real hardware, but through emulators and/or rereleases with crisp, clear screens.

The average person can't even handle "Drag SuperMarioWorld.smc to snes.exe", I doubt they can setup a Saturn emulator when the Saturn emulation scene is anything but a mess. And most emulators have filters and shaders, even freaking NSO's stuff on the Switch has filters.

>>10108936
The whole emulation is complex myth has long since been proven wrong, the vast majority of people playing old games do it through emulators. It's not some arcane knowledge, you admit yourself how pathetically easy it is. Real hardware is reserved for a specific niche of enthusiasts who have the means to enjoy 30 year old consoles the way they were originally intended to be.

>>10108712
> But OP intentionally started shit and is now crying that he got hit.
So saying a system has some good games is starting shit? Or does it only work that way for systems you hate?

>>10109057
>The whole emulation is complex myth has long since been proven wrong

Depends what system you are talking about. I have been emulating since the 90s with Nesticle and Genecyst, I know my way around emulators. About the only emulators that ever gave me trouble using them was higan and FB Neo (and even then only for Neo Geo CD on FB). I remember having to do all sorts of convoluted shit in the early 00s like use XOR graphics decryption packs to get around the lack of SDD-1 or SPC7100 emulation in ZSNES, or using programs that first increased the size of a ROM in order to install a fan translation. And then came the first PS1 and N64 emulators...


But I also recognize that for many people even the simplest emulators where you just drag a single file to an exe and you are good to go can be difficult to use, much less ones where you have to configure bios files, folders, plugins, rendering backends, etc. I doubt the vast majority of people who can bungle their way through snes9x are able to setup SSF. The "vast majority" of people don't know the difference between an .ISO and their own .ANUS

>Real hardware is reserved for a specific niche of enthusiasts who have the means to enjoy 30 year old consoles the way they were originally intended to be.

Real hardware is plug the console into AC power, plug the console into your TV, put in the disk/cart, press on. Even easier than modern consoles that could need an internet connection, and updates, and an initial setup even if you are offline, and all sorts of other nonsense. Why do you think many prefer to game on consoles instead of on a PC? Because they are easier, many people don't even know you can emulate, and a lot of the ones who do would think it's too complicated without even trying.

>>10100570
based

>>10108697
> They don't appear to be in any redump sets, and of non-redump sets the only game I could find in any of them was the MPEG version of Lunar.
That's because the only game that actually requires card and has a separate version is Lunar. The others are all the same image as the non-mpeg version and include the mpeg data on the same disc.

>Which I question if it was even dumped correctly because any attempts to extract the MPEG files gives me corrupted nonsense. Or were the MPEG disks just in a very weird format that almost no imaging software reads correctly since they appear to have two data tracks?
Even the real disc behaves that way. The MPEG data is actually on a separate track from the data track, but file references for the data is on the data track. That confuses a lot of CD drives and ripping software. Stuff like CDMage can usually extract them though.

>>10109109
Damn, CDMage, I had forgotten that name ages ago. Are you sure that can extract it? So far MagicISO, Anyburn, as well as mounting it as a virtual drive with ImDisk or Virtualdisk have all failed to extract it. That thing was last updated over 20 years ago, will it even still work on a modern computer?

>>10109226
Yes, CDMage can extract the individual MPG files and they should be playable. And it should still work.

>>10109232
Didn't work. Looking at the files in a hex editor, other than a header (which I am not sure is even correct) they are all just filled with 00s.

Everything else I tried tended to fill the files with random garbage data too, usually contents from other places of the CD, sometimes even just the TOC of the CD.

>>10109282
Sounds like user error to me. Works for me with the redump rip as well as my own BIN/CUE rip from the original disc. Run the program as admin, select the MPG file in track 1 you want to extract and right click and select extract.

>>10107791
>approved hardware
I play MAME at home on my approved computer
>Besides the same argument can be made for consoles
WTF is that dumb argument tottaly missing the point? 32bit arcade port are ALWAYS inforier to their original counterparts, even games using the 4MB cart are inferior in some way or another. Console only games are a totally different matter. Dumbass.

>>10109306
>32bit arcade port are ALWAYS inforier to their original counterparts, even games using the 4MB cart are inferior in some way or another.

Please give specifics. Other than the resolution difference between 384 wide and 352 wide I'm not aware of any serious issues in those ports. The resolution difference is minor since the games still play like they're at 384 wide mode. If anything ones like Vampire Savior and Street Fighter Alpha 3 are still worth playing due to the additional content they have.

>>10109292
Found the problem, the fact that your screenshot looks slightly different from mine clued me in. I was using the latest version (1.01.5) instead of the latest BETA version (1.02.1) which despite the very small difference in version number are extremely different. Updated UI icons, disk size meter on the top-right, can open bin files separately instead of just the cue, works much much faster, and actually extracted them correctly. Clicked the wrong link when I thought I was downloading the beta.

There should be no reason whatsoever to run it in admin mode though.

>>10108936
>>10109089
Depends on who's "the average person". That stuff might be too hard for boomers, but millennials and zoomers are more tech savvy and know how to google for solutions. PC gaming is more popular than console gaming and that trend is deepening. Most CRT shaders replicate a sharp RGB screen, it's another case where composite is again, a niche within a niche. This is also not even getting into that I also mentioned rereleases. Since I brought up Mega Man earlier: its Legacy Collections are some of its best-selling games. It's incredibly likely more people played X4 through Legacy Collection than its original release.

>>10108725
Some of those numbers are dubious. The dates are weird. Lunar's PS1 sales look like they're only taking into account the first month it was put up for sale. That's not really good for lifetime numbers. The MPEG version on Saturn is literally just launch day sales. This doesn't tell us enough.

>>10109779
There's always going to be a bit of fuzziness on that kind of information. That being said I don't think Saturn is a console where you need to analyze game sales to figure out what went wrong. It's own creators will tell you themselves.

>>10100664
its 3d games are sorely lacking. nights into dreams isn't good and neither is burning rangers. the music in their games are good but they play like arcade slop.

>>10109762
>PC gaming is more popular than console gaming and that trend is deepening.
This isn't fair though since "PC gaming" today is for all intents and purposes just Steam, which at its core is functionally a "console" that just happens to be platform agnostic. Hell, you can just use real Xbox and PlayStation controllers now making the difference nil. It's not like PC gaming of the 90s where you had to select your video and sound cards from a list or jump through other hoops like rudimentary DRM that made you look up words in the manual. The reason PC gaming took off so much is because it became way more like console gaming.

>>10109796
Right I'm just suspicious a game could sell more on Saturn than PS1 given their respective install bases. If you port a game from Saturn to PS1 and the PS1 version fails to outsell the Saturn then you definitely fucked up. Imagine porting a game from Ouya to PS4 and it sells better on Ouya.

>>10109779
It's Famtisu chart data. It's an accumulation of all the data from when those games charted in the weekly Famitsu sales charts. If the game didn't sell enough to make the chart, or fell off the chart for a week or so, that data isn't counted. It's that way for all games in that database.

If the games weren't charting that generally puts them below 1000-7000 copies sold for that week. So when a game falls off the chart, it would need to be selling for an absurdly long time to make things up in the long run. While yes it might be enough to make up the difference between their Saturn counterparts over time, this also holds true for the Saturn games. When they fell off the charts, they still kept selling small numbers over a long period of time.

While it's not the total data, it is indicative of how games sold over time and how much demand there was for them. In many cases we see a similar amount of time for how long they charted. Grandia for both is over a period of about half a year and includes the holidays in both cases. It sold more on Saturn though. For Lunar Silver Star Story we see about 2 months on both Saturn and PS1, but they sold significantly more on Saturn. For Eternal Blue we see about 1 month on Saturn, vs half a year on PS1, Saturn still sold more.

So what we can get from this Famitsu data is that those games sold more and were more popular when they first game out on Saturn, and the PS1 ports that came later weren't as popular and probably didn't sell as well, even over time.

>>10109796
The sales weren't brought up to analyze what went wrong. They were brought up because people were saying games like Grandia don't count as Saturn games and were assuming they sold more on PS1 even in Japan. But the data doesn't back that up.
>>10109797
Just because you don't like NiGHTS into Dreams or Burning Rangers doesn't mean they're bad games.
>>10109805
>Right I'm just suspicious a game could sell more on Saturn than PS1 given their respective install bases.
At the time those games first came out on Saturn the install bases were about the same. By the time they came out on PS1 they were years later and by then the initial hype had died down and they were competing with newer games.

>>10109823
>At the time those games first came out on Saturn the install bases were about the same. By the time they came out on PS1 they were years later and by then the initial hype had died down and they were competing with newer games.
Valid. Lunar on PS1 was going up against games like FFIX and Legend of Dragoon. Very easy to get lost in the shuffle.

>>10109798
That is definitely a factor but the other big one is that the world is getting poorer and PC gaming is more cost-efficient. That's a big reason why PC gaming took off in a lot of third world countries. And why is PC gaming more cost-efficient? Because millenials and zoomers already have computers and know how to use them.

>>10109762
>Most CRT shaders replicate a sharp RGB screen, it's another case where composite is again, a niche within a niche.

Err, no. A huge point of many of those shaders is to replicate the very effects that composite would introduce.

>It's incredibly likely more people played X4 through Legacy Collection than its original release.

Those versions were based on PS1 though, also I disagree, a lot of people who didn't grow up with those older games would not be interested in them.

>>10100148
Mysterious bubble wrapped is mysterious.

>>10109941
Looks like Dragon Force.

>>10109938
>Err, no. A huge point of many of those shaders is to replicate the very effects that composite would introduce.
You can open up Retroarch yourself and see that most shaders replicate RGB, or otherwise default to RGB.
>Those versions were based on PS1 though, also I disagree, a lot of people who didn't grow up with those older games would not be interested in them.
X Legacy Collection 1 broke a million sales, something that only the original X has been confirmed to do when it comes to the X games. Even if the bulk of these people buying it was old boomers, that doesn't change my point that these games are being played on RGB screens now.

>>10109938
>>10109938
>Err, no. A huge point of many of those shaders is to replicate the very effects that composite would introduce.
You can open up Retroarch yourself and see that most shaders replicate RGB, or otherwise default to RGB.
>Those versions were based on PS1 though, also I disagree, a lot of people who didn't grow up with those older games would not be interested in them.
X Legacy Collection 1 broke a million sales, something that only the original X has been confirmed to do when it comes to the X games. Even if the bulk of these people buying it was old boomers, that doesn't change my point that these games are being played on modern screens now.

>>10109970
You realize that some Saturn emulators have the option to render VDP1 mesh commands as proper transparency right? If we're going to complain about mesh transparency on modern screens as well as emulator settings/CRT shaders, we may as well bring that up.

>>10109991
What emulators? Is it able to do this without breaking some of the art, like what happens with de-dithering shaders like sgenspt-mix?

>>10110023
SSF is able to do it, I think Yabause and possibly some branches of Mednafen can as well?

Basically VDP1 meshes are handled at the hardware layer. It's a specific flag set on a rendering command that tells VDP1 to skip every other pixel for that command. So if the emulator dev wants to they can have a setting that instead of doing that, it renders them as proper transparencies instead. No issues with breaking the art or de-dithering shaders. It's more or less correcting it at the emulated hardware level.

>>10110023
>>10110027
Forgot to attach pic of it in action.

>>10109970
>You can open up Retroarch yourself and see that most shaders replicate RGB, or otherwise default to RGB

Funny how I Google about that and pic related is one of the first things I see.

>X Legacy Collection 1 broke a million sales

And how much did all the games included in it combined break?

P.S. legacy collection also has filters. It's kind of standard these days. Even fucking ZSNES had (shitty) filters back in the day.

>>10110023
>What emulators? Is it able to do this without breaking some of the art, like what happens with de-dithering shaders like sgenspt-mix?

Just an FYI dithering an image was an actual VDP hardware command for the Saturn. You could literally tell it "dither this sprite" or "dither this polygon" and it would do it, no need to make the game itself dither it or pre-dither the sprites. So an emulator could definitely be able to detect and intercept that call to apply filtering to just that component.

A game would just be sending a solid image and telling the VDP "dither this", the emulator can instead intercept that and instead of dithering that solid image, make it properly transparent.

>>10109943
Good eye.

>>10109762
>millennials and zoomers are more tech savvy and know how to google for solutions
No. You're universally mocked for being clueless. And then mocked even more for pretending you're experts on having a clue. Just stop already. Have you no shame?

>>10109762
>millennials and zoomers are more tech savvy
Funniest thing I've heard today... that was a joke right?

>>10100148
You forgot one, schnawg.

>>10110686
Isn't that shit like 40 minutes long?

>>10110908
Ever heard of something called good replay value, bitch? Grab a homie and two Stunners and let the good times roll.

>>10110928
Fair enough.

>>10110060
>Funny how I Google about that and pic related is one of the first things I see.
Yes, it's a cool example of composite filtering. Not sure what it has to do with this discussion.
>P.S. legacy collection also has filters. It's kind of standard these days
A very sharp CRT shader that definitely isn't trying to simulate composite. This conversation is specifically about the composite aspect. I'm aware that CRT shaders are more common now.
>And how much did all the games included in it combined break?
Combined likely more than X Legacy Collection, yes. Doesn't disprove my point though, as X3 sales would likely include at least some people who bought X2, who most likely bought X1, etc. I'm genuinely amazed that multiple people itt are trying to argue that most people play with composite in 2023 because they think I'm insulting the Saturn.
>>10110253
>>10110393
Just do basic research and you'll see I'm right. Emulation isn't arcane knowledge, I'm not saying that your average millennial would know how to install Arch or something.

>>10111173
>A very sharp CRT shader that definitely isn't trying to simulate composite. This conversation is specifically about the composite aspect. I'm aware that CRT shaders are more common now.

CRT shaders generally simulate the blending as well, not just the physical screen, since that's how people generally connected them.

>Combined likely more than X Legacy Collection, yes. Doesn't disprove my point though, as X3 sales would likely include at least some people who bought X2, who most likely bought X1, etc.

Can't say I agree. I for example have no interest in the Atari 2600, which was before my time, but I still love playing on the NES like I used to as a kid. Most of my younger family who is into videogames and even strangers I have run into have shown zero interest in playing games older than when they started, the only ones that do are very into videogames, far more than the average person. Retro games just don't really interest most people who were born after said games.

>I'm genuinely amazed that multiple people itt are trying to argue that most people play with composite in 2023 because they think I'm insulting the Saturn.

Oh it has nothing to do with that, I just feel you are underestimating how stupid the average person is when it comes to technology. It's amazing how people lose all sense of common sense and logic when in front of a computer, even if that person has a fucking PhD in some other field. An error message that flat out tells you EXACTLY what is wrong can cause them to just freeze up and have no idea what to do because it's not what they have learned by rote what to do. I have literally had people ask me to help them "fix my computer" which they insisted was not showing an error message and they had no idea what was wrong... I come over there and there is an error message saying "The printer is out of paper, please insert most paper into the printer and click ok" with pictures showing how to do it.

>>10111643
>CRT shaders generally simulate the blending as well, not just the physical screen, since that's how people generally connected them.

Composite blending? No they don't, not even the Legacy Collection one that you brought up.
What you and others are missing is that the type of person who's at all interested in retro games probably lean a little more tech-savvy than the general population. I'm not arguing that frat bros who only play CoD or girls who use the Switch as an Animal Crossing machine are playing Mega Man X. What I'm saying is that most retro games today are played on modern displays, whether legally or not. There's a reason why you can easily find emulation and/or rerelease flame wars on this board, because these people deep down know that these are the most common representations of the games they like.

saturn was a little too early for american culture. we needed about 15 years for anime to gain influence and japanese culture to really start becoming attractive.

>>10111643
>Retro games just don't really interest most people who were born after said games.
But remember that retro rereleases appeal to a wider range of retro gamers than just the ones who bought those games the first time around. I bet plenty of people who bought the various Mega Man collections had missed the boat the first time around for some or all of the original games. It's not just people double or triple dipping.

>>10111173
Aren't there studies showing that newer generations barely even know how to navigate folders in a computer? It's no wonder there's so many frontends and assorted worthless bells and whistles making the rounds out there.

>>10111972
It had a lot of sports and fighting games on it, people just choose to forget about them

>>10112028
The recent Sega leak had them panicking because their sports games, which were their bread and butter on the Genesis, suddenly started selling like ass on Saturn. The obvious explanation is that all the Genesis owners jumped ship to PS1 because in the end they just wanted their sports games. They weren't loyal to a specific console manufacturer.

Didn't read any posts here, but I just wanted to say Sony won.

>>10112034
>The recent Sega leak had them panicking because their sports games, which were their bread and butter on the Genesis, suddenly started selling like ass on Saturn.
You clearly didn't read deep enough into those documents. It wasn't that the sports titles magically stopped selling. It's that they didn't have any ready in time for the Saturn's launch because they put their focus all on the 32X and Genesis instead. So they were scrambling to get things out.

Some like Golf, Baseball, and Soccer they could repurpose games made by Sega of Japan to fit the western market, but the big one they needed was a Football game. Which American Football isn't popular anywhere outside of the US so why would Sega of Japan have made one? Hockey was in a similar situation. As a result Sega of America had to make those themselves and they weren't able to do it. They tried outsourcing it but the company they outsourced it to wasn't able to deliver a quality title in time either. To be fair even EA wasn't able to get a Madden 96 out on any 32-bit platform. Sony on the other hand was able to capitalize on this with NFL Gameday. As a result a lot of the market for sports games in the US went to Sony.

>>10112093
Saturn had the best football game, much better than the crap FIFA was producing, but it didn't help sales in Europe at all.

>>10112125
Complete fiction. Sega Worldwide Soccer was dog shit. By FAR the best football games in that era was Konami's ISS games. Predominantly the Pro Evo series on PS1 (which eventually became PES), but the N64 ones (made by a completely different team) were pretty decent too. Far beyond anything on the Saturn.

That continued on into the Dreamcast era too. There wasn't a single decent football game on that either. Virtua Striker 2 was okay in small doses, but it's a simplistic arcade game that quickly gets tiresome. Like most of Sega's output on the Dreamcast.

>>10112125
They weren't licensed outside of Japan and therefore couldn't use the official team names and players. The ones outside of Japan were all over the place in release timing as well in many cases missing season windows.

It's kind of similar to why competing American Football games are pretty much a lost cause these days since only EA can get the NFL license. It doesn't matter how good the game is, people want to play as the real life teams and players they follow.

>>10112181
ISS and Pro Evo were years after Sega Worldwide Soccer 97, retard.

>>10112305
ISS 64 released the same year as SWWS '97, you fucking moron. There was also nothing in your retarded, inaccurate post about release dates and only being able to compare games that came out the same years. SWWS was garbage, both in its Victory Goal form and the later, even worse Silicon Dreams games. Sorry if facts hurt your feelings, dumb Sega fantard.

>>10112315
>ISS 64 released the same year as SWWS '97
Wrong again you potato, they were released in different years. Which means Saturn had the best football game for an entire year. Now stop posting you ESL clown before you shit up the thread even further.

>>10112181
>>10112305
>>10112315
>>10112334
Instead of finger pointing going "Your game sucks!" followed by "No your game sucks!' why don't you guys point out what's good and bad about each to make your arguments hold a bit more water?

>>10100570
Extremely based

>>10100159
I watched some more footage of this game and it looks and sounds way better than Panzer Dragoon

>>10111173
>Just do basic research and you'll see I'm coping

>>10112315
>Silicon Dreams
that was world league soccer 98

>>10112034
THIS AND THIS.

Sega America wasted TOO MUCH money in marketing, also having TWO marketing budget and failing in SPORTS GAMES was their end. I put the blame on Sega America, nomad and 32x.

>>10113292
>extremely based
How though? If you hate anime or "weebslop", as you call it(something which is being thrown around like shit by a coke or meth addicted monkey) stuff fine then. But based? How is something based in an extreme way objectively?
>muh opinion is FACT!
No its not God complex delusions of grandeur fuckhead.
>>10114457
32X, and Nomad for sure. But I wouldn't place all of the blame on Bernie.

>>10100148
It has games but none of them are good.

>>10114508
>t.SnOY zealot

>>10112028
No joke, Saturn's biggest fuck up was not getting Mortal Kombat 3. It did eventually get Ultimate but it was way too late by then. Sony having MK3 as a timed exclusive even before the 16-bit systems may have single handedly tanked the Saturn in the west.

soulless: my console that I had no part in creating, made no games for, don't know anyone at the company or who worked at it, and profited in no way due to its existence is better

soulful: I use a PC to pirate and emulate every console where it is reasonable to do so, and also use it exclusively to play PC games from the board cutoff date and earlier

Yo, fellow Ludomasters. Let's talk some real shit about the Sega Saturn. I feel like normies just don't get it, you know? They think it's some outdated console with basic graphics and whatnot, but man, they're missing out on some serious gaming power.

Like, seriously, the Saturn had some amazing games. I mean, have you played Panzer Dragoon Saga? That shit is top-notch. And Nights into Dreams? A classic. Plus, the Saturn had some sick arcade ports like Marvel vs. Capcom and Street Fighter Alpha 3.

But I get it, normies are all about the latest graphics and gimmicks. They don't understand the beauty of 2D sprites or how the Saturn's architecture made it capable of some seriously smooth gameplay. Only true Ludomasters understand the hidden potential of the Saturn.

Sure, the system could be a bit finicky at times with its dual CPU setup, but we don't care. We understand the true power of the Saturn and its underrated library. So let the normies have their shiny new consoles, we'll stick to our Saturns and continue to appreciate the true gems of gaming history.

>>10114770
>Plus, the Saturn had some sick arcade ports like Marvel vs. Capcom
Ackshually...

>>10114770
Unironically true and I talk like this

>>10100529
ass blasted snoy go away

>>10114724
> Sony having MK3 as a timed exclusive even before the 16-bit systems may have single handedly tanked the Saturn in the west.

MK3 came out on Genesis, SNES, etc. the same time it came out on PS1. And it sold far more copies on Genesis and SNES than it did on PS1. It wasn't nearly as big of an impact as you're thinking. Toshinden, Ridge Racer, Tekken, NFL Gameday, etc. all outsold it by a wide margin.

The bigger issue with Saturn was not having western software ready for launch at all.

>>10115059
There was definitely a six month exclusivity deal. Bernie Stolar is the one who sealed it. I think the mistake I made was mistaking the 16-bit versions were part of that. It must have just been exclusive for the 32-bit versions, locking Saturn out. That absolutely would have made a difference. It was advertised on the back of the box. You have to consider that every copy of MK3 sold on PS1 was also a sold PS1 itself, likely in lieu of a Saturn.

>>10115163
Yes, there was an exclusivity deal, no it didn't really make that big of an impact because Mortal Kombat was reaching it's exhaustion point. Mortal Kombat games had been pumped out quickly and a lot of people didn't see the point of getting it on PS1 when they could get it on their Genesis and SNES. There's also the fact that regular Mortal Kombat 3 wasn't really that well received due to the lack of returning favorite characters and the series starting to feel stale. Which is part of why Ultimate was rushed out less than a year later to try and correct some of the issues and complaints.

Just about every major PS1 launch title outsold MK3. Doom outsold it, Rayman outsold it,Wipeout outsold it, Ridge Racer outsold it, Toshinden outsold it, on PS1. No one was buying a PS1 just for MK3. Sales wise it's in the same league as the PS1 port of NBA Jam, Street Fighter The Movie, Raiden, etc. Sure they're not bad ports, but they weren't system sellers.

Im a huge Sega fan but I cannot get into Saturn even a little bit. I dont think I enjoy literally anything on it besides Panzer Dragoon 2 which does genuinely kick ass. Everything else is the most underwhelming shit I have ever played. Nights is boring. The hype around Panzer Dragoon Saga has to be some joke Im not in on, the battle system gets old fast and it has nothing else to offer, I can't believe theres freaks brainwashed enough to unironically say its better than FF7. Magic Knight Rayearth is just some licensed anime game but because its not complete dogshit it's considered as one of the must plays for the system because theres nothing else. Astal is just garbage simple as, it has nice art I guess. The fighting game ports are impressive for the time but theres literally no reason to play them today when you can just as easily emulate the actual arcade version or play a newer arcade perfect port somewhere else. Burning Rangers is probably the biggest let down of them all, impressive graphics and the game tricks you into thinking its gonna be a cool action packed 3D platformer in the beginning but then you play it and you just run around these boring environments and put out fires and collect crystals, it has no depth to the gameplay at all.

What the fuck am I not understanding, Saturn fans? I've played every single game you told me to and was not impressed even once. I love the Genesis, Dreamcast is probably my favorite console of all time, I love the systems direct competitor the PS1, so why would I not like the Saturn. I genuinely think the games are just not good and its been a mystery to me for a decade as to why it has any fans at all.

>>10115619
How do you feel about the Daytona games, SEGA Rally, the SEGA fighting games (Virtua Fighter 2, Fighting Vipers, Fighters Megamix etc), Virtual-On, Die Hard Arcade, and Guardian Heroes? Also the Konami shmups or exclusives like Hyper Duel and Radiant Silvergun? I also prefer Dreamcast but I do think there's a few good games on Saturn.

>>10115572
Exhaustion point? Are you sure you aren't thinking about MK Trilogy? MK3 was at it's peak popularity. The first movie came out around that same time. There was a ton of cross promotion with things like MK3 kombat kodes appearing in the end credits.

>>10115572
Where are you getting these numbers? I hope you aren't using lifetime sales. We're talking launch window. It's not fair to expect the vanilla MK3 to continue selling when it didn't get rereleased in jewel case form like all those other games.

>>10100148

Saturn sucks so fucking much lol

>>10116550
Dave, you're a wanker

>>10116550
oof right in the nuts

>>10116331
>Exhaustion point? Are you sure you aren't thinking about MK Trilogy? MK3 was at it's peak popularity.
The reviews of the time all point out this exhaustion point. So no it's not MK Trilogy, it's MK 3. It's also reflected in the 16-bit ports that sold about half the ports of 1 and 2 sold. And no the PS1 port didn't make up that difference either.
> The first movie came out around that same time. There was a ton of cross promotion with things like MK3 kombat kodes appearing in the end credits.
Yet still didn't really do much about the series becoming tired.
>>10116334
>Where are you getting these numbers? I hope you aren't using lifetime sales.
Some are lifetime, some are numbers less than a year after launch. Tekken in it's first week in Japan alone sold about the same as MK3 did over it's entire lifetime in the US on PS1. Toshinden sold more copies in Japan alone before MK3 was released than MK3 did worldwide over it's entire lifespan on PS1. Both of those games went on to sell extremely well in the US and were big names pushing the PS1.

> It's not fair to expect the vanilla MK3 to continue selling when it didn't get rereleased in jewel case form like all those other games.
It did get rereleased in a Jewel case, it's rare because the game didn't really sell that well.

You're overestimating that games popularity. It was a nice port, but it wasn't a system seller. The system sellers were things like Tekken, Toshinden, Wipeout, Ridge Racer, NFL Gameday, etc.

>>10118652
>The reviews of the time all point out this exhaustion point.
Show me. That's not even me being a dick. I can't think of anyone back then who was shitting on MK in 1995. The franchise was on fire still. It was only the third game and the entire series was only three years old.

>>10118704
IGN gave the PS1 version a 5/10:
https://www.ign.com/articles/1996/11/26/mortal-kombat-3

Next Gen in their Arcade review points out the unappealing new characters and the missing favorites, as well as pointing out that it didn't real do anything special:
https://archive.org/details/nextgen-issue-007/page/n82/mode/1up

GamePro in their review of the PS1 said it was a good port of a game that wasn't that great. They state it may win over the diehards but not the people the arcade failed to impress:
https://archive.org/details/GamePro_Issue_077_December_1995/page/n61/mode/1up

Next Gen in their review of the Genesis version says it stands a better chance on the 16-bit systems as a 2D game than it does against 3D games on the new systems, but also points out the series is getting stale. This is also touched on in their PC and PS1 reviews:
https://archive.org/details/nextgen-issue-011/page/n186/mode/1up

Retrospective articles and reviews also point out this general feeling of the series losing steam with MK3 and how it wasn't well received due to the changes and lack of favorite characters.

>>10100740
I'd rather read all two dozen of these visual novels back to back than drivel like this dumb fucking comment.
Not every visual novel is good but I've yet to read one as stupid as you.

>>10118931
saturn has ultimate mortal kombat 3

>>10116252
Capcom supported sega saturn pretty hard.

>>10108440
Everyone's roasted anon for putting ports but Sonic R is the truest evidence of them padding things out just to have a big list. Sonic R is way worse than either Mario Kart or CTR. Less courses, no power-ups, and a less original cast.

>>10120118
They didn't really have a choice though. Half their games barely worked on PS1 and the ones that did required massive effort. Street Fighter Alpha 3 was practically built from the ground up as a PS1 game as opposed to porting the CPS2 version. It's not that Sega did something uniquely right with the Saturn. It's that it got lucky that Sony shit the bed with the one aspect of the architecture that made the expansion port in the back way too slow to use for RAM expansion. It was something of a happy accident for the Saturn. Add a hypothetical RAM cart to the PS1 and nobody would be talking about Capcom's Saturn games. They'd exist but nobody would care.

>>10100159
gamera is so cool bros, why it must always be that fat lizard.

>>10120225
>Sonic R is the truest evidence of them padding things out just to have a big list.
It's still a decent game in it's own right and worth playing. Quite a few people enjoyed the game and still have nostalgia for the Saturn version as well as the later ports.
>no power-ups
You have the speed shoes, the water shield, and the lightning shield. There's the dash panel, Robotnik and Egg Robo have missile launchers and Amy has the nitro button. Have you actually played the game?
>less original cast.
It's literally the characters from the Sonic Franchise at the time. How is Mario Kart's cast any more original at that point?

And again the point of that post that you clearly missed like others was that it was a response to "Let's actually discuss Saturn games.". It was literally saying "Ok, let's discuss Saturn games, which would you like to talk about? Here's some examples."

>>10120246
Well, Saturn is also more in line with a traditional 2D system thanks to VDP2. So that helps a lot too and provides more VRAM. Capcom seemed to like the Saturn too since they would later make the CPS3 similar to it by using the SH-2 and having very similar capabilities to Saturn's VDP2 + VDP1 combo.

>>10121185
>It's still a decent game in it's own right and worth playing. Quite a few people enjoyed the game and still have nostalgia for the Saturn version as well as the later ports.
How so? What makes it worth playing over MK64 or CTR? Just because people have nostalgia for it? This is a trend I've noticed itt, you can argue against people calling the Saturn bad, but you can't actually justify why people should play the Saturn today. There's a distinction, and that's why the Saturn has been sent to the dustbin of gaming history.
>You have the speed shoes, the water shield, and the lightning shield. There's the dash panel, Robotnik and Egg Robo have missile launchers and Amy has the nitro button. Have you actually played the game?
I have, but you got me there. The game has so few power-ups, which are almost all circumstantial, that I forgot about them. Referring to the dash panel, or Eggman's missiles as power-ups is quite silly as they function mechanically different from something like the speed shoes.
>It's literally the characters from the Sonic Franchise at the time. How is Mario Kart's cast any more original at that point?
This is more a criticism of the Sonic franchise itself, but I'm referring to how almost half the cast are clones of pre-existing characters. They could've at least used Chaotix characters, or Nack. It's visually very lazy compared to MK64.

>>10121219
>What makes it worth playing over MK64 or CTR?
It's a unique take on the kart racing idea with some nice 3D platforming elements. There maybe less tracks but they have quite a bit in them to explore and look into which encourages multiple playthroughs. And the music is pretty good too. Overall it's still a fun game worth playing and is it's own unique thing. If you want a Mario Kart clone you wont get that from it., but if you want something fun and unique you will get that out of it.

>This is a trend I've noticed itt but you can't actually justify why people should play the Saturn today.
It has been pointed out and justified. You just choose to come up with bullshit excuses to discount them.

Your same argument of "Why should we play Saturn today?" can be applied to every retro console. Using your own logic there's no point in playing the N64 today because all it's good games are available on other systems through either ports or remakes, and all of them are generally better than playing it on an actual N64. There's no point in playing most the SNES's JRPGs and First party games, arcade ports, etc. because they've been ported, remade, remastered, etc. on just about every system under the sun, so why bother with them on SNES?

It's an absolutely retarded argument to be making against any retro system on a retro gaming board. The only reason it gets used on Saturn is because for some reason some people here can't handle others liking the Saturn and need to go out of their way to discount anything good it brings to the table and shitpost any decent discussion about it to death.

>almost half the cast are clones of pre-existing characters.
Only 2 characters are new characters made for Sonic R. Tails Doll and Metal Knuckles. The rest were pre-existing characters in the franchise. And they each play very differently. Again do you know anything about the game or the franchise?

>>10121285
Sonic R's platforming elements are sparse and for good reason, because racing controls aren't suited for platformers. The tracks don't have as much content as MK64 or CTR's tracks. It doesn't offer quality to make up for its quantity, it's just trash. The music is also irrelevant since you can just listen to it on Youtube.
>There's no point in playing most the SNES's JRPGs and First party games, arcade ports, etc. because they've been ported, remade, remastered, etc. on just about every system under the sun, so why bother with them on SNES?
I actually agree, but I can see where the emotional attachment to the SNES comes from, because those games were at least worthwhile back in their time. Sonic R was at best mediocre even back in 1997. The Saturn brought nothing new to gaming as a whole and if it was erased from history, little would change.
>Only 2 characters are new characters made for Sonic R. Tails Doll and Metal Knuckles. The rest were pre-existing characters in the franchise.
Metal Sonic and Eggrobo are still clones even if they're from other Sonic games.

>>10102350
>people pretend the Dreamcast was good
Actual subhuman take, rope yourself.

>>10102679
Radiant Silvergun, Policenauts, and Astua alone are enough to BTFO the entire N64's garbage fucking library. The N64 is the most abysmal console ever created and I KNOW it haunts the fuck out of Nintendo ever since, that's why they refuse to reference it beyond Shilllda and Marry-O.

>>10121310
>racing controls aren't suited for platformers.
Which shows you haven't really played the game. You can control the game either like a racer where you hold an accelerator button and steer only, or you can control it like a platformer where you move directly with where you press on the D-Pad/Analog stick.
>The tracks don't have as much content as MK64 or CTR's tracks.
Again I question if you have actually played this game. Mario Kart 64's tracks are generally one fixed path with a short cut here and there. Yeah there may be some interesting eye candy, but there's not really a whole lot to explore. Sonic R's maps on the other hand have tons of paths, most of which aren't shortcuts. They're all filled with things to explore and look at. Part of completing the game requires you to do this kind of exploring to find and unlock everything.

Sonic R's tracks are pretty much their own self contained world for the player to explore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlU5MS3hQWo

> I can see where the emotional attachment to the SNES comes from, because those games were at least worthwhile back in their time.
Just because YOU don't like a game doesn't mean others don't, nor does it mean it's not worthwhile.
>Sonic R was at best mediocre even back in 1997.
Maybe to you, others like me enjoyed it quite a bit when it came out.
> The Saturn brought nothing new to gaming as a whole and if it was erased from history, little would change.
This is again pretty fucking stupid. This argument can be made for just about any system because there's always a competitor that would most likely fill the void. The Saturn brought the same thing the PS1 and N64 brought. Cheap decent 3D gaming, excellent quality 2D gaming, near perfect 2D arcade ports, larger scope games, etc. And one thing Saturn did push along that the other 2 didn't was online gaming. Just because a lot of it's games never left Japan, or some don't appeal to YOU personally, doesn't mean it has nothing of value.

>>10121310
>Metal Sonic and Eggrobo are still clones even if they're from other Sonic games.
Using this logic just about every character in Mario Kart is a clone of another character even if they're from other Mario Games.

>>10121496
>Radiant Silvergun
Mogged by Sin & Punishment, the best arcade-style shooter of 5th gen.
>Policenauts
Mogged by Wonder Project J2, the best adventure game of 5th gen.
>Astal
Mogged by Mischief Makers, the best action-platformer of 5th gen.

Chadtendo 64 btfo's the Shiturn so fucking hard you'd have to be retarded to disagree.

>>10121615
No that's not true at all, "leaning" with L and R buttons are absolutely necessary for sharp turns.

>>10121635
Radiant Silvergun and Sin & Punishment are both made by Treasure, they're both amazing. That said they're also completely different kinds of games. One is a rail shooter the other is a shmup.
>Mogged by Wonder Project J2, the best adventure game of 5th gen.
Nice shitpost.
>Mogged by Mischief Makers, the best action-platformer of 5th gen.
Might as well compare Treasure to Treasure here, so why not put that up against Guardian Heroes?
>>10121668
>"leaning" with L and R buttons are absolutely necessary for sharp turns.
If you're racing and taking those paths then sure, if you're exploring then not really. A lot of the sharp turns can be completely bypassed if you explore and try the other routes.

>>10121185
>>10121219

Holy fuck, the entire roaster of people competing in the special olympics are less retarded than you two autistic idiots.

>>10121679
>if you play the racing game like it isn't a racing game then it's fine, actually
I almost typed up a detailed response, but you've pretty much demonstrated Sonic R's problems for me. Thank you.

>>10121770
>if you play the racing game like it isn't a racing game then it's fine, actually
This isn't what I said. I said the game has platforming elements and encourages exploration. The levels encourage you to explore to find new paths and hidden secrets. Some of the faster paths don't actually require you to make sharp turns because they cut through significant portions of the track.

>>10100539
No Linda Cube, Princess Crown, or Cyber Doll?

>>10121806
it'd be interesting to see a photo (or just a screenshot/cover collage) of Saturn games that's neither the arcade ports and Panzer Dragoon /vr/ usually talks about nor "weebshit", but other stuff like Cyber Doll and Linda Cube and Quo Vadis and Langrisser

>>10122003
The games you just listed would most likely be deemed "weebshit" because most people dunking on Saturn in these threads think any Japanese game they haven't heard of must be weebshit. Especially if there's anything remotely anime like in it's art style.

>>10122028
Dude, why the hell are you talking about weebshit like Iron Storm?

The Sega Saturn has a massive library of games, and those who disregard it as a worthwhile console are not true gaming enthusiasts.
Doesn't matter if you're a weeb or a westoglobo.

By the way, speaking of Panzer Dragoon. I was browsing their entries on TCRF and found out that the text files (and in the case of 2, additional text files) that were standard on Saturn games that normally were empty or had a single line of text was instead filled with notes from the dev team about tips on the game, general discussion on what development of the game was like, backstory of the setting and characters, thank yous, and any random nonsense they felt like rambling on about.

Sadly Japanese only, but Google Translate did an ok job with roughly 90% of them... until it tried translating this one part that was full of poems the devs wrote about the game.

>>10101874
Based Mokona-poster.

>>10122003
I wish I had more time to spend with the Saturn import library, PS as well. Hell, just the JRPGs alone. Hundreds of interesting looking traditional and action JRPGs that we never got in the West that I want to check out.

Three Dirty Dwarves is a fun one, it was only ever also released on PC but have fun running that these days outside of 86Box or something.

>>10100159
Saturnbros... it's so fucking over... how can we recover from this...

>>10127484
Stay strong SEGAbro, Sonic X-Treme is on it's way.

>>10129298
How finished exactly was this game? I'm surprised Sega hasn't pulled a Star Fox 2 and released it "for real."

>>10129341
>How finished exactly was this game?
It was so bad they decided to can it instead of just finish the project themselves.

>>10129341
>How finished exactly was this game?

About as finished as Big Rigs was

Didn't help that from the interviews I read it was cancelled and re-started about three times as a completely different style of game.

>the translation of Langrisser III has been in development for more than 20 years
at this point I think I'd better learn japanese

>>10129412
It baffles me when someone who is big into Japanese anything hasn't learned the language by now. Do it anon.

mes according to people that play walking simulators

>>10129341
There is nothing noteworthy to release, it's literal prototype garbage.
It shows why the saturn failed, too much infighting and poor management that they could not even make a proper entry for their flagship title.


The saturn has a smaller but fun list of games def. worth playing. It's refreshing when comming from the psx

Janny, Janny, who's quite the tranny, are you lurking the thread right now?

How upset that anon made you get, and then the thread disappeared somehow.

>>10129341
>>10129369
>>10130528
What's funny is a single hombrew dev was able to take the level data and make their own prototype that actually runs on real Saturn at a decent frame rate in just a few months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA5EzJoNG9k

It kind of shows you just how incompetent STI was in developing for Saturn as well as showing how flawed and broken the concept was from a gameplay standpoint.

boompsy

>>10129369
Good lord even if they had finished it the basic design of this game was awful to look at. How could they have botched it so bad in concept?

>>10100202
and your opinion got discarded fag.
all those games are good you are just a racist MF!!
also the saturn released the last game in 2007,as for the dreamcast last official game release was in 2009 .

>>10134134
My guess is having to re-start the game from scratch with an entirely new concept three times (One of which was when their boss said he hated everything he saw... except some boss fight and to just make the entire game like that) coupled with 3D being new at the time and the hardware being a mess. The infighting didn't help either like that infamous moment with the NiGHTS engine.

So, has it been confirmed yet if Saturn has games or not?

>>10138151
That CD player UI is ridiculously so much better than the lazy stuff we got on PS1 (and don't even mention the PSOne's)

>>10138545
I miss those crazy UIs the BIOSes of consoles used to have, although I guess now that there is an entire OS with a GUI running on them it is a little pointless. Ironic that they don't even play CDs anymore.

It's a shame that most of them didn't go all-out like this, even the PS2's CD player was pretty lame looking compared to the PS1's.

>>10102679
>Steam Hearts

>>10139950
Wasn't anything that wasn't the original PC98 version of that censored though?

retard here
is the texture warping supposed to be this strong?

>>10140102
Yes, though the tradeoff is you get voice acting, which the PC98 one lacks
So you get various orgasmic moans in the console ports, but the story is now that you're applying a virus-curing beam* to them instead of your dick. (*Virus-curing beam requires target to strip entirely nude to function properly, please understand.)

>>10140364
I thought the story even in the censored versions was that you was fucking them because the cure was in your semen for some reason? Just that they don't show the explicit images anymore.

>>10100148
...nbare goemon games

>>10140430
Nah, the dialog is all changed to be about shining the anti-virus light on them
To be fair, I'm only familiar with the PC Engine version so I suppose it's not impossible they changed the story back in the Saturn port and re-recorded dialog, but I think it's unlikely
Would be easy enough to go listen to the Satirn dialog on youtube to check

>>10140715
I can't read or speak moonrunes so I would have zero idea myself if I looked.

>>10140727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK9qY2kea8g
I went and checked and it's the same dialog as the PCE version
At 11:27 he says the 抗体を照射しよう ("let's irradiate/expose her to the antibodies") line and then at 12:03 it starts playing the antibody beam sound effect
Looks like the Saturn version (graphics) is actually slightly more censored than the PCE version because at 12:33 the 1st stage boss's breast is blank but in the PCE version her nipple is visible there (only nipple in the entire PCE port iirc):
https://www.youtube.com/live/-H7jfgxmfqQ?feature=share&t=1365

The console is still one of my most favorites. Just because it gave me so much entertainment on a budget. A joy in our bi-weekly gatherings showing off all sorts of different and interesting titles.