/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10082441
Surely there are hacks with health stations or full health on respawn. Literally the only flaw. Metroid's great, fuck ZM.

>>10082441
I hate both this shit and hearts not being full after you die in Zelda games

Does anyone else enjoy Metroid hacks but not SM ones so much? Rogue Dawn and Junkoid were far more compelling to me than any SM hack. The OG Metroid hacks just seem more like proper total conversions and well designed, and the Super hacks all seem like schizo difficulty-vomit for troons.

>>10082459
or just use save states like everyone else who plays this game in the current year. its okay anon, its not 1986 anymore and gunpei yokoi isnt going to come out of the screen and scold you.

>>10082441
The only thing that's retro about this game, having to grind for health is boring and not how you should play this game. Instead, with trial and error, you learn where all the e-tanks are and avoid grinding because they insta heal you.

>>10082469
I don't mind getting killed or traversing back to where I died, I just think the health grind is bogus

It's your punishment for being a casual shitter, get good and it wouldn't be a problem. Using savestates or ""QOL"" hacks doesn't fix the problem, it only comforts you in low-risk sloppy playing instead of getting good like intended

>>10082441
This game sure aged like milk compared to Zero Mission

>>10082465
Good incentive to not die.

>>10082441
it was 1986. forgive and enjoy.

>>10082531
You start the game with 30 health, so is the game punishing you before you've even moved Samus lol?

>>10082670
Your being punished for sucking at the game

This design flaw is a consequence of removing the save files from the FDS version.

>>10082670
She was at full power before the game started but got beat up and all her upgrades stolen, cutscene technology didnt exist yet preasu undastandu

>>10082678
Even if you're good at the game you still begin in Brinstar with 30 health

>>10082703
If 30 health at brinstar is a problem for you then it's a skill issue due to sucking at the game

>>10082709
Would you enjoy Metroid less if you didn't get just 30 health?

>>10082472
Another thing is that there are more Energy Tanks than you can get maximum energy, so late game they're only needed for full refills.

>>10082469
don't listen to this anon, i used rewinds on super mario all-stars and Miyamoto vandalized my car the following morning

>Mario begins with only 1 hit point and nobody complains
This is misandry.

>>10082469
Why would he? This was only a problem on the shittier american version which also botched the soundtrack.

>>10082737
>1 hit point
>M x 4

>>10082737
Yes, but the max HP isn't 100, and you are reasonably meant to get through it without taking damage or 1 hit before the next powerup. You are meant to tank several hits in Metroid.

>10082690

>>10082743
>botched
I don't like the sound of FDS music in any game

>>10082743
passwords
LOADING
are better

The real problem is standing in front of the monster spawning tubes to shoot those bastards, and they frequently drop nothing or little 5 HP crumbs.

>>10082781
I wonder if you've heard it right. FCEU fucked it up for the longest time. Nestopia and Mesen are acceptable.

>>10082540
>Zero (soul) Mission
>better
no way fag

>>10082441
Zelda 1 got it right with the fairy fountains and laser-beam at max HP mechanic.
If I had to make one singular change to Metroid 1, I'd make the E-tanks turn into reusable heal points after you collect them the first time.

>>10082803
not even soul, it's "zero thought" mindless bullshit. unironically hold right 2 win.

>>10082469
Well, I know someone who didn't beat the game

>>10082556
Is this the best running animation of the 16 bit era ever?

>>10082816
Samus if she processed through the last 15 years of anime girl design geared for maximum profitability from CGDCT SoL golems.

>>10082441
Just leave the tank at the start of Brinstar for the endgame. There, problem solved - if you need to farm for anything else git gud.

>>10082917
Insecure "female" hands wrote this

>>10082718
You would enjoy Metroid a lot more if you didn't suck at the game

lol @ the dorks simultaneously screaming at how the nes version is gimped by not allowing saves, while in the same breath denigrating anyone who USES SAVE STATES TO RESTORE THE FUNCTIONALITY.

>>10082761
>You're meant to get hit
Skill Issue.

>>10082961
Play the JP version, it's better.

I played the fds version on my everdrive and didn't really use the save feature much. The music was pretty cool though and I guess the enemy patterns are better sometimes which is neat I suppose. Mostly just save stated when I was done playing

>>10082465
>>10082545
I feel like it's worse starting with 30 health in Metroid than with 3 hearts in Zelda because the way you take damage in Metroid means health farming is way more critical, slowing you down a ton compared to Zelda where you can casually build up hearts along the way to your destination. Dropped hearts in Zelda represent a significant percentage of life recovery compared to individual health drops in Metroid, which only start to matter in bulk.

>>10082459
>full health on respawn
Too easy

>>10082441
it's fine, makes the punishment for failure create stakes. as for starting with it in general nothing going to kill you that early unless it's your first video game in general, there is a E tank pretty early on too. when I was a kid I was mad about it, but I first played it on Metroid Prime. I somehow missed out on it on the NES. Smash64 was the first time I heard about Samus.

>>10082703
>Even if you're good at the game you still begin in Brinstar with 30 health
Starting area's difficulty is scaled to that level of health though.

>>10083094
I don't find the game that hard and even got the best ending on just my second run, but I still don't really see the 30 hp at respawn mechanic as very good for creating stakes. Ideally there should be a balance between creating pressure to not play sloppy and motivating the player to keep trying. I don't feel Metroid really strikes a good balance for beginner players because if you're struggling, getting another realistic chance at getting better at the game without being killed in like 2 hits beginning at about the halfway point of the game involves a sentence of 5 years hard labor since you can't realistically get much health by carefully perusing around the map like in say Zelda. I think full health is too much considering just how many tanks you have by the end of the game, but either something like giving one full tank of health at spawn or increasing the enemy health drop rates would be better. Otherwise, I just feel it suffers of a variant of the Gradius problem.

Playing this on a PAL NES is fucking hell

>>10083163
yeah, I think just having hp drops slightly more often would of been a good answer if we'd change anything. as for me as a kid, thought starting with 30 was bs but I didn't find the game too hard or anything.

>>10082441
I think it would be preferable to have a long "corpse run" with higher starting health rather than respawning closer but grinding health. En route you would also have opportunities to explore or decide to go somewhere else.

>>10083376
>Playing this on a PAL NES is fucking hell
What makes it different aside from the 50hz?

>>10082718
>>10082957
kek this exchange

>>10083145
And no other part of the game is

>>10082957
But what about you? Would you enjoy Metroid less if you didn't get just 30 health?

>>10083707
Have you put any effort into getting better at the game? This thread has been up for over 12 hours. You could have practiced and overcame your skill issue. Instead you chose to suck at the game

>>10082790
Except they're the opposite of better, especially Metroid's 24 character password.

>>10083049
zelda 1 had fairy fountains

>>10083873
Answer the question mate

>>10084161
Go first, sweet cheeks.

>>10082469
>savestates
Are you 9 or something? Gitgud, gay.

>>10084127
>filtered by typing
sad

>>10084197
I was the first one to ask any questions and we both know why you're dodging the question roflmao

>>10082441
>Max character level of eight
Discuss

>>10084364
>typing
>NES
Good job, turdy.

>>10083049
>>10084154
That 'problem' is not exclusive to Zelda 1. With the exception of Zelda 2, you start with 3 hearts (more in some of the games, I recall it being half of your total health or something like that in ALttP and OoT) in all /vr/ Zelda games after dying. But then again, the same could be said about all Metroid games, iirc the games empty pretty much all of your e-tanks and leave you with 1, and in the very first game it's not even full, it's at 30 hp. Complete horseshit if you ask me. I still love Metroid and Zelda and have beaten them countless times but I hate this

>>10082441
You don't need health if you don't get hit.
The thread is full of babbies.

>>10084368
So you don't want to get good at the game at all, right, mate? Just play with game genie if you want your handheld you poofter

>>10082441
you've just got to train yourself, like this

>>10083873
>playing vidya for 12 hours
>why can’t I get a gf?
>why can’t I afford a house?

>>10085146
Tell us all about your life problems, son. What's holding you back from buying a house?

>>10082441
Just heal by collecting an energy tanks. It sounds dumb but there's quite a few of them to go around. Also make sure to get the screw attack as soon as possible.

>>10082465
>dying should be rewarding!

>>10082709
it takes zero skill to get to full health. it's just pointless tedium. bad design.

>>10082670
It would be dumb to start with 100 health. A new player would have way too much and could go miles before dying and never learning anything.
With 30 health you will die early on, learn the lesson and move on, while still being able to tank regular enemies reasonably later in the game.

>>10085498
it's only tedious if you're a grind shitter, sorry

>>10084373
Game is still too easy. Many Ultima games can be finished at very low levels.

>>10085498
But it was your own fault. You tanked all that damage. Blame yourself.

>>10082441
Never heard a criticism about it in 30+ years until zoomers started playjng nintendo.

>>10085498
Then why did you bother dying in the first place.

>>10087986
It's not about dying. It's about taking a break. Not everyone is a NEET who has enough time to spend a whole hour playing a video game at once.

>>10082816
>が without second '
was this done by a non jap?

>>10082441
Certainly one of the reasons Metroid 1 isn't fun.

>>10087984
>30+ years
how fucking old are you? I'm 30 and already think maybe I'm too old to be here. it's weird to use the web along with people that are old enough to be my children

>>10082441
>>10082459
>>10082465
This is mainly a problem with the NES version because it has broken RNG. You can either play the FDS version or get a patch to add the FDS RNG to the NES version.

EVEN WITHOUT PATCHING HOWEVER the real reason people have such a problem with this is that they refuse to actually move FORWARD before having full health. But this presents some problems because the deeper you go the higher the health drops are. In Brinstar and Norfair every health drop is worth 10, in the Hideouts they're worth 20, and in Tourian they're worth 30. If you back out of a Hideout or Tourian to grind for health you're literally cutting your health recovery speed in half or worse. The best way to regain health is to proceed cautiously deeper into the game where the health drops are more valuable. If you die in Tourian the best thing to do is to grind metroids for health because they drop 30 health each time and you can make them respawn. If you back out to Brinstar you're just fucking yourself over and wasting your time.

On top of all that, energy tanks fully restore your health, so exploration can sometimes reward you with a health recharge in the form of stumbling across an energy tank. There's an energy tank near both Kraid and Ridley for this reason.

Now, one thing that DOES suck is running out of missiles in Tourian. Grinding for missiles is something no one ever talks about because it only really becomes a problem if you die in Tourian after wasting too many missiles, but if you do it is a FUCKING PAIN to get another 100 missiles (to kill all the metroids plus Mother Brain, zebetites aside) since missile drops are just so damn rare all the time.

tl;dr - Grinding for health is a fucking meme brought up by people who are bad at the game and too pussy to just push forward cautiously after dying, but grinding for missiles in Tourian after dying too many times can indeed be very frustrating (though it can also be solved by gitguding).

>>10088021
Oh, and one more quick note: stop relying on only your beam. Another reason people have so much trouble is that they can't kill enemies fast enough to avoid getting hit, but if you just stop being stingy and use some missiles here and there as needed that's much less of a problem. You'll get more missiles as you keep playing, just as you'll get more health.

>>10087984
Not once in that 30 years did you die with 5+ tanks and think to yourself that it blows to grind health back up? Maybe when we were 8 and it was either that or playing outside. Feels a bit different when we're pushing 40 and can feel our lives slipping away in real time. I can't play JRPGs without compelling action mechanics for this reason too.

>>10088050
See: >>10088021
Grinding for health is a meme, just keep playing.

>>10088057
>die at Mother Brain
There's nothing else to do but grind at that point, wise ass. It's a total health and missile check that you have to tank through.

>>10088064
Try reading the whole post. If you grind metroids for health it doesn't take long to fill your tanks at 30 health per drop. The only thing that sucks is running low on missiles, which I admitted very explicitly is a frustration of mine and the only type of item-grinding in the game that truly needs fixing.

>>10088070
>autistically stuck on the missile point because his slightly different opinion is so special
Dude you're basically agreeing with me anyway. You have to grind.

>>10088070
>giant mentally ill wall of text that concedes anyway
Nah I'm not gonna do that you fucking weirdo.

>>10088075
Okay, so I was just going off of pure memory before but I decided to look it up. There are 24 metroids in Tourian, each one can drop a health orb worth 30 health, meaning you can get up to 720 health from them when your max health capacity with all energy tanks is 699. Since not every metroid will drop health when killed you might need to make a couple of them respawn, but it's not even really a grind to get full health going through Tourian. Missiles can be a problem, but health is never an issue. Literally just keep playing.

>>10088076
>concedes anyway
Everyone always bitches about health grinding, no one EVER mentions missile grinding. Missile grinding is the only real problem and it only comes up if you die in Tourian too many times. I'm saying that if you're going to complain about something, complain about the thing that's actually a problem. Health grinding is only something you have to do if you're too stupid to realize that continuing forward will grant you more health per kill than backing out and grinding in a safe place.

>>10087991
>a whole hour
So beat it in 15 minutes???

>>10088075
>>10088076
Wait, I'm actually retarded and completely forgot that Metroid's password system saves the number of missiles you have.
>enter Tourian with max missiles
>an hero on the first metroid
>write down password
>use password to spawn in Tourian will full missiles every time you die
So no, you DON'T have to grind. Checkmate, whiners.

>>10088148
>metagaming fuck
Didn't beat it

>>10082441
They wanted you to learn to collect health early on in the game. Easy as that.

>>10088164
The password system exists to be used.

>>10088182
Not to be manipulated. You're basically treating it like an extended savestate.

>>10088148
That's actually clever, but can you do that with the FDS save system? Since FDS has proper RNG and is just better overall (though I do think the music sounds better in the NES version, but it was the first one I've played)

>>10088185
The game allows it. All games with password systems work this way. If you earn a password you can use it any time you want, and you get whatever was saved by the password. Your argument is like trying to claim that choosing not to use a save point to preserve whatever you have currently saved is cheating. There are tradeoffs from doing it, though, like being unable to save which zebetites you destroyed since you're always using a password from before you destroyed them.

>>10088191
>can you do that with the FDS save system?
Yes, pic related. The save tracks your missiles and you have to tell the game to save, so you always have the option to just reset the system and start from your previous save and missile count.

>>10088021
How much better is FDS RNG? I'm the guy from >>10083163 and while I admit I haven't played the game in a while and might change my mind if I go back to it, I recall the RNG refusing to give health was what made it feel like bullshit to try and steadily move forward. I also didn't recall the variation of health drops, so I will admit that was retarded of me for not taking it into consideration.

Just play Metroid Planets.

>>10088308
The RNG in the FDS version is much better because it's real RNG on every drop. Every enemy can drop missiles, health, or nothing, randomly decided when you kill it just like you'd expect.
The RNG in the NES version just creates a random list of drops when you start the game. Every time you kill an enemy you get the next item in the list. When you get to the end of the list, it loops back to the first item in the list. Sometimes the list has a nice even spread, sometimes it starves you of one thing or another, sometimes you just get 10 blank drops in a row. Whatever you get, you're stuck with until the game resets and that's why it can feel so unfair at times.

>>10088373
Oh, that explains A LOT. First time I played I used save states instead of turning the game off and using passwords just for the convinience. I guess my singular RNG roll was almost exclusively fucking missiles then, cause that’s all any of those fuckers ever dropped.

>>10088382
kek, yeah that's the reason. It's kind of funny to me that the design of NES Metroid can unintentionally punish you in that way for using savestates, though. They had no way of knowing but that's how it worked out.

>>10088395
btw anon, since you seem to know at least a good bit about FDS games, how do you feel about FDS Zelda 2? Started playing Zelda 2 for the first time ever today and decided to play on the FDS version.

>>10088489
I'm sorry to say I don't have much experience with FDS games in general, really just Metroid.

>>10082917
>Shounen Oh Game Comics (August 1994) Super Metroid Manga

>>10087993
It isn't が, it's ガ. You can tell because of the ッ.
Sound effects are usually katakana.

>>10082441
Starting with full HP:
>increasing max HP permanently makes the game easier
>weak enemies pose little to no threat past a certain max HP threshold
>killing yourself to start over is advantageous

Starting with 30 HP:
>increasing max HP only rewards you if you avoid getting hit enough to save up a surplus of HP
>even the weakest enemies pose a threat every time you start up the game
>killing yourself to start over carries a penalty

>>10082441
>"Discuss."

Nope. Thread filtered, tab closed. If you can't open a discussion topic yourself, fuck off.

>>10088721
thanks for enlightening me. I've been studying, only got halfway through hiragana. been following the book Japanese from Zero. first thing that made me stick with it and I actually remember most of what I study
already feels like a superpower, can't even imagine once I manage to read simple things and have simple conversations. had to search something on youtube the other day, english had shit results so used japanese and got better stuff. from what I understand the japanese youtube is also way less pozzed (excluding the jab)

>>10089985
I recommend dropping textbooks and reading the /jp/ guide instead: https://tatsumoto.neocities.org/
Textbooks are very limited and won't help you past the very beginning.

>>10088748
You should start with 30% HP then

>>10090910
Link to the Past does similar to this and it's effective.

>>10090910
Technically Samus only has 99 HP plus a number of reserve tanks that handle overflow. So you start with 30% HP and empty reserves. :^)

>>10089985
Don't sweat the mistake too much, keep practicing and you'll improve.
That being said, if you still haven't learned all the kana yet I'd recommend changing your methodology. Memorizing the kana should only take a few hours. Try using a drag and drop program. (Here's a random one I found off of google.)
https://ohelo.github.io/usagi-chan/

>>10090986
that does not work for me, as I said. I'm the type that needs to put it in practice in phrases

>>10091301
1 looks choppy, 2 looks nice, and 3 looks like a paper doll made of multiple independent parts pinned on top of each other. 1 and 2 have swaying torsos that make all the limbs feel naturally connected and all the body parts feel mechanically influential on the others, while 3 has a perfectly fixed helmet and torso that only bob up and down (no swaying) which contributes to the unnatural paper doll appearance.