/vr/ - Retro Games

aint no cope like sadturd cope

I would feel bad for saturdlets if their cope wasn't so funny.

>wow this product is selling well in one market, let's get it into stores in other markets as soon as possible
Many such cases

>>10041350
I'm going to repost what I said in the other thread:

I'm trying to figure out if this was wishful thinking or just a particularly Saturn-friendly area he happened to visit. Because the data doesn't match his account.

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Sega_Saturn
>"By the end of 1996, the install base in the US was 1.2 million;[4] by that time, it sold close to 6 million in Japan,"

https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation
>Graph shows 9.20 million worldwide sales for 1996 and says 2.9 million in US, which is a difference of 6.3 million.

Even accounting for some of that being in Europe, that still means the PS1 and Saturn sales would have been pretty much tied in Japan when Tom was over there. His "Saturn is crushing it" report seems a bit of an overstatement. Maybe he means it in comparison to US performance but you'd think being in a draw with an industry newcomer in your strongest market would raise an alarm or two.

>>10041363
This leak pretty much seals the deal. Every single thing people said about the Saturn was accurate and all the "but if only..." cope is historical revisionism. This leak ESPECIALLY exonerates Bernie Stolar. These documents are from around the same time he joined Sega. All those arguments that Bernie's policies ruined the Saturn are provably false. The Saturn was a fucking grease fire when he came aboard with no chance of recovery. One of the emails is literally "Nintendo is going to use a slogan. Let's steal it first! Tee hee!"

>>10041389
would it be accurate to say that SEGA just got lucky with the MegaDrive/Genesis and everything that came afterwards was a reflection of what the company was really like? Or is it inaccurate and maybe extreme of a statement?

>>10041350
Weird how sega of America was just in denial about everything and still refused to bring over good games lmao

>>10041428
Virtua Fighter 2 is the only good game the Saturn had. And it was reflected in it's sale numbers. Saying some shitty 2D turds could ever save it is delusional.

>>10041410
I think that's perfectly accurate. Sega was always primarily an arcade company. That's where their talent was and where they did all their best work. Their home console division was always a shitshow that happened to get lucky once or twice allowing them to ride that for a few years until the wheels fell off and they had to start strategizing again. People forget but the Genesis did not start out all that strong in the west. "Genesis Does What Nintendon't" wasn't a slogan targeting the SNES, it was targeting the fucking NES. They were in a war with a previous gen system because the Genesis at the time was being marketed like the Neo Geo would eventually be: a way to play your favorite Sega arcade games at home. Altered Beast was the flagship title. The Genesis was on the market for two years before Sonic. And they happened to get VERY lucky that Nintendo was prudish enough to screw over their version of Mortal Kombat.

>>10041428
There isn't a single Japan only Saturn game that would have sold more than 50k copies at maximum in the entirety of the US and Europe.

>>10041389
>I'm trying to figure out if this was wishful thinking or just a particularly Saturn-friendly area he happened to visit. Because the data doesn't match his account.
Considering he was in Akihabara when he noted this, it checks out, even if its completely anecdotal. Playstation is/was the casual system and Saturn catered more to the Otaku niche even then of Sega arcade fanatics and holdovers from the PC Engine / PC FX. Also Saturn was almost always woefully under-manufactured and under-shipped, most stores would get 20 Playstations from Sony and four Saturns from Sega in the same week, so it's no wonder Saturns were "sold out".

>>10041442
The Capcom fighting games probably should have come over. Being able to compare X-Men vs. Street Fighter to the embarrassing PS1 version would have made a decent impression. But it was also too late to really turn the tide by then. We're talking 1997. Though it might have drove enough of a late boost, especially if it were a pack-in title (not sure the logistics of doing that but it'd be an idea) for a special budget priced set. It'd be a stretch but it MIGHT have kept the Saturn breathing until the Dreamcast launch. Other than those games though, you're right. Again, MAYBE the Saturn SOTN if you could hide that it was shitty and pretend it was an all around enhanced port.

>>10041389
You're in luck, Sony's fiscal year ends in March, which means we have pretty reliable number for PlayStation sales. It was 2.5 million in Japan by March 1996. By May it was 2.7.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120609161621/http://scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdataps_e.html
Tom said he went to Akihabara, and it's stereotyped as a den of otaku for good reasons. From a cursory browse of Wikipedia, the Saturn looks like it had the better library leading to March 1996, and better appeal to the otaku type as well. I'm inclined to give Tom the benefit of the doubt and say he probably did see such a strong showing of the Saturn. What he didn't see was that it wasn't going to translate to the American market.

>>10041457
Capcom fighting games were increasingly niche after Super Street Fighter 2. The only Capcom fighting game on Playstation that sold 1 million copies was Street Fighter Alpha 3.

>>10041460
Thanks for that. It's possible (or even likely) those VGSales numbers are very off but taking them at face value, if the PS1 sold about 2.5 million to the Saturn's 6 million by spring of 1996 then the Saturn pretty much stopped selling units after that. It blew it's entire load in it's first two years and then sat dry while everyone in Japan hopped to the PS1. I had pretty much 6 million Japanese sales by the end of 1998 when it was discontinued so if it had around that many in 1996...

>>10041470
Hey, I'm grasping at straws here. It's easily the best option they had if we're talking Japanese exclusives that could have helped.

>>10041473
Actually, after digging a little deeper, it seems that the Saturn was lagging behind a bit. This German magazine from March 96 said that the Saturn sold 2.2 million in Japan.
https://segaretro.org/index.php?title=File:SegaMagazin_DE_28.pdf&page=21
So Tommy here probably just saw Akihabara otaku in action and thought it applied to everywhere else.

>>10041350
Wish I was at game stores in Japan in 1996.

>>10041350
>we're sold out, that's good!
>we're in stock, that's good!

>>10041350

>>10041350

>>10041567
Based Devin, wonder what he's doing nowadays.

>>10041575
playing animal crossing in his smelly apartment most likely.

>>10041434
Shitposting from beyond the grave? Give it up Bernie.

>>10041575
>Based Devin
WRONG
Devin was wrong. What did this smug fucktard console warrior know about the PS1 vs the N64 vs Sega Saturn competition beyond the first 1 or 2 layers? What a stupid troglodyte with a baby brain.

>>10041597
>t. lone survivor of the Playstation nation

>>10041597
>t. Playstation nation refugee

>>10041350
I'm a super casual. But unless Sega Saturn had something to counter Final Fantasy 7, Tekken, Gran Turismo, or Gran Turismo.

And this is speaking from kid me. All I remember is Sega Saturn having no identity in the USA and that weirdo marketing campaign with the bald headed woman.

>>10041630
This is the 5th gen we are talking about, Mr troglodyte. I am not a PlayStation fanatic. But you certainly are a Nintendunce cultist, or nearly so. Cartridge do indeed have their advantages over CDs but the same goes for vice versa. Get it together and read a book, Lord dipshit.

>>10041646
Oops I meant Crash Bandicoot

>>10041350
>We are killing Sony.
>we will win here in the U,S, eventually

>>10041675
>CRASH BANDIGOO

>>10041389
>>I just visited 10 retail stores in Tokyo (most in Akihabra)
>just a particularly Saturn-friendly area he happened to visit
Yeah, basically. The console with all the fighters, RPGs, shoot-em-ups, and visual novels sold out in Akihabara, nerd capital of the entire world.

>>10041646
Grandia, Virtua fighter, Sega GT and Sonic 4

>>10041787
One of those is a DC game and one is a 360 era game

>>10041575
She goes by Emily now, chud.

>>10041950
Wouldn't surprise me, the nintendrone to nintentranny pipeline is real.

>>10041973
Nice cope furfag. Sonic is and will always be the fastlane to gender dysphoria

>>10041350
>>10041567

The entirety of Sega, from its execs down to its fans today, was utterly and thoroughly broken by the release of the PSX. It’s a shame to see really, but you’ll always have the Genesis I guess.

>>10042000
>Sent via Deja.com
>visit deja.com
>WTF
no seriously
>WTF

>>10041787
The only one on that list that matters is Virtua Fighter.

>>10042010
>no https
iaintclickingthatshitnigga.jpg

>>10042010
What the fuck.

>>10041646
As a kid, I didn't even know Sega Saturn was a real console that you could actually buy. All I knew was the Genesis, and to a smaller extent, the Sega CD. But I wasn't aware of the Saturn. Maybe I confused the Saturn for the Sega CD. I don't know.

But it was long dead before I was cognizant of its existence. None of my friends were aware of it either. every kid on my block had either an N64, or PS1, and of course previous consoles. But nobody knew or talked about the Saturn.

I really don't understand how Sega is so incompetent. Everything they do is wrong.

>>10042056
>not rawdogging the internet clicking on anything using IE6
You are weak.

>>10042010
>Sign in using your Google Account
fuck that, what's in there anon?

>>10042010
>>10042091
Looks like it was bought by Google in 2002, so it's just redirecting to Google Groups and asking you to sign in
https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/google-buys-remaining-deja-com-business/

>>10042091
1/2

>>10041646
>Final Fantasy 7, Tekken, Gran Turismo, or Crash Bandicoot

Make more than ten copies of Panzer Dragoon Saga or finish Saturn Shenmue (Grandia only appeals to weebs and it's 2d), bring over Dead or Alive or finish the VF3 port, and a decent 3d Sonic game. Just make a semi-linear platformer of a notable length using the Sonic World engine or even the Sonic R one (assuming they can make increase the draw distance), and it would be enough. Sonic R alone is what made me want to get a Saturn in the first place - and it's only real fault was the low draw distance and having only five levels.

Don't know if anything could counter Gran Turismo though. Sega was only doing racers that had three cars+levels total, Gran Turismo simply had sixty times more content.

>>10042091
2/2

>>10042107
>>10042109
>>10042113
Huh? I mean, based, but that's so random.

>>10042070
Same. As a kid everyone had a N64 or a Playstation 1. I wasn't even aware of the Sega Saturn for most of the generation. I only saw Sega Saturn games in the clearance bin at my local game store, and I was confused since I didn't know Sega Saturn was a thing.

I remember the Sega Genesis of course. But the name of Sega disappeared from everywhere for an entire generation of games. Then Sega showed up with the Sega Dreamcast one day. I remember a huge marketing push all over game stores. Only 1 out of my 7 friends bought the Dreamcast. Fun system with Power Stone, Crazy Taxi, Sonic, and Ready 2 Rumble boxing. But most of my friends were saving for a Playststion 2 or Gamecube.

Then very quickly the Dreamcast just disappeared from stores. Just gone. And then the Playststion 2 came and I completely forgot about Dreamcast. That was that. No more Sega.

I did see some Sega Arcade machines in the arcade. But I thought as a kid that Sega just gave up on consoles and focused on arcades again. I didn't pay it any mind.

>>10042110
>a decent 3d Sonic game
Not prioritizing a proper 3D Sonic game for launch day and letting Yuji Naka fuck around with whatever the fuck Nights is was the most retarded thing Sega could do, and they did it. I have no sympathy for a company being that brain-dead retarded.

>>10042131
It doesn’t make any sense now and didn’t then. I don’t understand why making a new fucking Sonic game wasn’t their absolute top priority. Instead they made the gayest game that’s literally ever been made. And it’s a fine game. But like what the fuck is it?

>>10042131
honestly even a 2d sonic ready at launch would have been better than Nights

>>10041428
>still refused to bring over good games lmao
What good games

>>10042129
Yep we had a Dreamcast, and one other kid. they had Crazy Taxi and Power Stone. But we had all the cool shit. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Ready to Rumble, Marvel vs Capcom 2, Jet GRIND Radio, Granida 2. And maybe 1 or two other games I'm forgetting. As far as I could tell, the Dreamcast was a good system. Then like you say, it just fucking disappears. Like, I don't understand Sega's decision making process. They're always shooting themselves in the foot. If they only stuck it out, then they could have competed with PS2 and Gamecube, they might have actually given Nintendo some real competition.
But on second thought. I kind of get it. Because the Dreamcast came out at an awkward time. It was kind of in between generations. Who knows if it would have really held out for so many years.

>>10042137
I literally remember being nine years old, standing in Target in Summer of 1996, looking at the Nights demo on the Saturn, then looking over at the N64 display with Mario 64, and thinking "Why does Sega not have a 3D Sonic game to compete with Mario 64?" If I was aware of this as a nine year old child, I don't know how Sega suits werent.

>>10042154
Same man same. Even now I can’t figure out and have never heard a reason. Why would THAT of all things not be the absolute top priority?

>>10042010
>>10042059
>>10042091
>>10042107
holy zoom

We all know what he was.

>>10041389
>This leak ESPECIALLY exonerates Bernie Stolar.

really? He seemed to make a handful of course corrections at the business level, but game-industry decision wins seem pretty lacking too. If it was his job to get things on track, he didnt.

>>10041442
this is probably true, but things don't happen in a vacuum. The assumption that the only effect is that there'd be an import that sold 50k. But who knows what other ripple effect happens, breakout surprise hit arrives, new tech or documentation opportunities, a chance at a console exclusive. at the very least if you're right, there's 50k more customers in your base that kept interest in your system, and thats not nothing.

>>10041434
pokemon red and blue were some of the most banal jrpg gameplay that was utterly esoteric for the time it released whos success was engineered on gimmicks and marketing waaaaay more than is 2d turd gameplay. You just never know, and dismissing the missed games as only 2d turds shows you're too myopic.

>>10042152
>If they only stuck it out, then they could have competed with PS2 and Gamecube, they might have actually given Nintendo some real competition.
I'm not the anon you are replying to but I can answer this. The reason Sega didn't stick it out was because they were broke. The failure of the 32x and the VERY BIG failure of the Sega Saturn hurt Sega big time financially. They blew their load hard on the Sega Saturn. Sega honestly didn't have the money to make another console. But instead of leaving the market gracefully, Sega decided to borrow money to try to make one more console to try to turn the tide in their favor. They threw everything they had with the Dreamcast. The whole company was riding on it.

But Sega only had enough money to support the Dreamcast for about 18 months. The only way for Sega to survive was for them to sell tens of millioms of Dreamcast units. Dreamcast would had to be a bigger hit than even the Sega Genesis. Unfortunately that didn't happen. Sega literally ran out of money. Banks wouldn't let them could borrow more. So Sega was forced to quit.

I think maybe if Sega teamed up with another company like Microsoft or some other hardware company, split the costs, then they could have survived longer.

>>10042375
>Sega literally ran out of money. Banks wouldn't let them could borrow more

and getting business credit in japan works really different than in the west probably.

>>10042352
Pokemon was also a handheld game there's different expectations there compared to a console. The west outside of niche otakus weren't enough to pander to at that time.

>>10042375
This sounds super plausible. However, because Sega makes so many bad decisions, I really have to wonder if their money problems were so bad that the dreamcast couldn't save them. OR, if that's just what their retarded executives believed, because they're retarded.

>>10041470
Everyone and their grandma played that EX street fighter series on PlayStation.

>>10042391
>if that's just what their retarded executives believed, because they're retarded.
Considering the president of Sega of Japan immediately wanted to invest hundreds of millions to open indoor Sega theme parks before they had built a solid financial surplus, yes.

>>10042420
is that true? it could explain why Nights was a thing; its got that kind of themepark aesthetic going imo.

>>10042382
>and getting business credit in japan works really different than in the west probably.
Some of the details are different, but overall, not really. For the most part if the bank thinks you can pay back the money, they will lend it to you. If they don't think so, they won't.
If I was a Japanese banker in the late 90s and Sega hit me up for money, I would tell them to exit the console business first and then hit me up again, because it clearly wasn't working for them.

>>10042420
neogeo land competition?

>>10042426
Yes, AFAIK Joypolis in Odaiba is the only one from the original locations still around, the rest were opened as Sega World and closed only a year or two later. There were multiple locations in Japan, one in Sydney, a massive one in London, and they used a section of Epcot Center at Walt Disney World from '95-96 for one.
https://youtu.be/mRzH2X9t6-Y

>>10042445
sounds like the main reasons Nights had so much invested into it was probably because they wanted it as a fancy advertisment for those parks then. makes more sense in hindsight now; maybe the main reason Saturn flopped was more because they had themeparks on the brain, which probably resulted in that weird Sonic prototype.

>>10042452
Honestly I think you're giving Sega a little to much credit to have that kind of focused "synergy" between departments and branches, everything points to the whole company never knowing what any other department or branch was doing at any given time.

>>10042427
>For the most part if the bank thinks you can pay back the money, they will lend it to you. If they don't think so, they won't.

that does seem different. In the west, they go one step further and will loan if they think they can take the company by leveraging the owed debt too. That means more debt opportunities in total.

>>10042454
i was more referring to the money and marketing expertise being wasted on the themepark shit but otherwise, yeah.

>>10041410
The Genesis was the only time they did the right thing at the right time. Which was mostly chance They mostly made shitty business decisions. The consoles in general were fine. But they constantly made idiotic movements and invested too heavily in them, which caused big loses. Then Nintendo fucked up and got Sony as a competitor, and that was all she wrote for anyone except Microsoft later. Even with the positives of the Dreamcast, the market saturation of consoles no longer could be viable. Textbook definition of too little, too late. Hell, even now there is little difference between the Xbox and PlayStation. Lots of minutae, but in general its 6 of one...
The Switch is a piece of fuck but survives due to its unique config and portability, and Nintendo's first party titles are still well loved.
I feel like online gaming and difficulties emulating are the only things keeping consoles around. Were in a period where technology is supposed to do everything at once rather than specialization. Like those iPads on your fucking fridge and shit.
Let's be honest, Sega consoles dying was indicative of the market changing completely. Even if they made better decisions later in the game, they wouldn't have lasted. Failing to maintain the momentum of the Genesis became the cancer that ate away at them.

>>10041534
You'll be surprised but that's actually how market works.

You need to have enough units in stock to fullfill the demand and keep selling as much as you can to get profit. Dreamcast, for example, didn't meet both of these criteria.

>>10042640
>The Switch is a piece of fuck but survives due to its unique config and portability, and Nintendo's first party titles are still well loved.
I still find it crazy how switch isn't even considered the most recent generation of consoles because of how weak it is and yet it's competing with the current gen
>I feel like online gaming and difficulties emulating are the only things keeping consoles around. Were in a period where technology is supposed to do everything at once rather than specialization. Like those iPads on your fucking fridge and shit.
Phones still can't match the feel of a handheld's buttons.

>>10042662
Because no one who enjoys video games actually gives a shit about resolution or framerate.

>>10042000
>Wait for the Cube
I bought the Cube on launch, this hurts me

>>10042667
Most retarded take of July 2023.

>>10042679
What are you even doing on the retro board? Most 5th gen games run at even lower resolution and framerate to Switch.

>>10042696
Do you play PAL versions of games? Do you play PAL versions of games rather than their NTSC versions?

>>10042702
Unless they are lying to me, eurofags claim that games made for PAL run fine in PAL. They could be high on copium, so I'll reserve judgement.

>>10042352
>really? He seemed to make a handful of course corrections at the business level, but game-industry decision wins seem pretty lacking too. If it was his job to get things on track, he didnt.
You're right but at the same time he was put in an impossible position. He probably shouldn't have been so brazen about it with the whole "Saturn is not our future" thing and instead quietly phased it out. But there's no way anyone could have turned things around. His plan to shitcan the Saturn entirely and put everything into the Dreamcast would have been the sensible call at the time. To do anything else would be throwing good money after bad. In a sense it did kinda sorta work. The Dreamcast launch was pretty solid in America, arguably great. Which would have been harder to do if the Saturn wasn't in the rearview mirror and retailers were still getting burned by it and consumers still associated the Sega brand with a catastrophe.

>>10042310
AND MANGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASHHHGGAAAAGHHGHHHAAAAAAA!!

>>10042375
>>10042391
Sega was in trouble because arcades were in a steep decline around the time the Dreamcast launched. It was slower in Japan but even that was seeing a downturn. It wasn't exclusively Sega that was affected. Midway went bankrupt only a few years after transitioning to console development after having a very successful arcade operation throughout the 80s and 90s. The two markets were not the same so it was a struggle to adapt and they just couldn't hang. Sega's business model was never exclusively console focused but it increasingly became the more important market for them so the cost of failure was way higher. Look what happened with Konami. They only ever had one foot in the game industry, their primary market being gambling shit. So the second things started to look grim they peaced out.

>>10042452
One issue with hindsight is that the 90s was too chaotic a time for anybody to really have known anything. Everyone keeps saying how crucial it was for the Saturn to launch with a Sonic game but the original Sonic the Hedgehog for the Genesis was only three years old when the Saturn launched. These franchises weren't yet entrenched in the way we think of them today. And people's attentions spun on a dime. People were super into Battle Arena Toshinden before suddenly losing interest.

It's possible that the thought with the Saturn was along the lines of "we need to create something new for the new generation or else we'll look like we're stuck in the past." And that wouldn't have been an indefensible position. Naughty Dog pretty much operated on this policy since the beginning. They did a bunch of Crash games on PS1 and then immediately abandoned it for Jak on PS2 which then abandoned for Uncharted on PS3, and now The Last of Us. Sega was probably trying to find the next big thing. Their problem was they never properly committed to anything and just kept throwing out IP after IP hoping something would stick. We got Ecco the Dolphin, Vectorman, Ristar, Eternal Champions, Nights, Bug!, Clockwork Knight, Astal, and Comix Zone all bunched up against each other, each game getting one sequel at best, if even that. It was Attention Deficit Game Development.

The only time I saw a Saturn was at a demo kiosk tent at a Six Flags. I played NiGHTS and it was actually pretty awesome, it felt like a dream. But then I got a PS1 because it had FF7

>>10042454
They really needed to fix that with the Saturn. You'd think they'd have looked at the Genesis and saw that a consumer grade version of their primary arcade hardware (System 16 in this case) worked out well for them. Why the Saturn wasn't a consumer grade version of the Model 1 (maybe Model 2 but that might have been impossibly expensive even scaled down) baffles me.

>>10042662
>I still find it crazy how switch isn't even considered the most recent generation of consoles because of how weak it is and yet it's competing with the current gen
Because the competing platforms Steam/PS/Xbox are all identical to each other in practice. Nintendo is really only competing against one monolith, not three separate companies each offering their own advantages. Nintendo found that sweet spot in between "modern" gaming and mobile.

>>10042742
Didn't ND stop making Crash Bandicoot because they never owned the IP in the first place and the IP owner went shopping for another developer?

>>10042661
I don't know. Nintendo was notorious for being short on stock and it never hurt them. Whether it was deliberate scarcity or manufacturing limitations (the Wii was so popular that it's possible they had maxed out what they could deliver and didn't want to invest in a new factory in case the bottom fell out unexpectedly) people stayed hungry.

>>10041374
If there are so many other cases like it then how come you can't name any?

>>10042762
> Whether it was deliberate scarcity

I think this because they're still practicing it to this day. Let's say COVID impacted Switch manufacturing chains, but they were "selling it faster than resupplying" even before that. And remember when they are announced "limited" Mario trilogy collection? That was in 2020 and it is still in stock.

>>10042667
>Because no one who enjoys video games actually gives a shit about the last 10% of resolution or framerate.

ftfy

>>10042721
>would have been the sensible call at the time.

except that would have shitcanned any residue of consumer respect left for Sega in the west, which is precisely where Sega needed money from the most to have survived. Kiss the Saturn base goodbye for being betrayed the same as the cd/32x adopters, and kiss the potential newcomers goodbye because they knew the ps2 would be DVD by the time DC launched and the market already knew for a while no games were being released on the Saturn (especially the Gamefan types who hated the overfocus on 3d and shitstomping of 2d gaming) so why trust them now?

and so the early adopters picked it up, and the launch went.... ok. but the rest is exactly what happened. (still dont buy the argument that piracy killed DC)

but ultimately, even feeling the Bern, SOJ was in charge, so it still falls to them.

>>10042749
truly this. You could argue the problem with Sega was just as much arcade v console as it was SOJ V SOA.

Are you guys talking about this new leak? I'm too lazy to go through it all.
https://twitter.com/MegaDriveShock/status/1675798596950847488

>>10042853
Yeah. It's worth reading through, desu. Lots of stuff that wa previous conjecture or assumption turned out to be true. The big one for me was Sega internally knowing they fucked up with the 32X and SegaCD, and acknowledging the success of the Genesis in the U.S. was due to its Sports options (mostly from EA).

>>10042705
>games made for PAL run fine in PAL
The entire problem of PAL vs NTSC regions for gaming consoles back in the day is that lots of developers didn't bother making changes to fit the other standard. And going from NTSC to bad PAL feels worse than going from PAL to bad NTSC.
And thanks to the US and Japan both using NTSC, there's more of those games rather than the PAL ones.

Without doing a proper conversion to make sure it runs at the correct speed in the other region, you get:
NTSC-developed game on PAL = runs 17% slower
PAL-developed game on NTSC = runs 20% faster

>>10042662
I was thinking PC gaming but youre right that phones factor into it too.

I will also say the barrier to entry for PC gaming is higher. Consoles are easier. Especially as Windows gets worse and worse.

The Switch was fine for a lot of things, but their refusal to update the design or specs after years is telling. The biggest problem is the wifi card. Its why Splatoon 3 is so bad with online play. The joycons are a clever idea but suck dick in reality. Plus Nintendo acts too much like Disney sometimes and that just sours the whole thing even more.

>>10042667
Ayy buddy, shut the fuck up. Resolution depends on what kind of game, but higher is typically better. Framerate though? Fuck playing a game at 30 fps. It literally feels like youre having a stroke. Its why the Switch is so bad sometimes because even good looking games run at 30 fps, and it just looks so shitty. Even switch emulators can play games so much better than the console itself!

>>10042843
>truly this. You could argue the problem with Sega was just as much arcade v console as it was SOJ V SOA.
Yup. It doesn't get as much attention because the arcade division didn't have open hostilities with the others but Yu Suzuki may as well have been on Mars. While SOA and SOJ hated each other Sega AM2 was behaving as if neither one of them existed. How else do you explain putting Virtua Fighter 3 on such fucktardedly powerful hardware that a console port was practically impossible for a good three years, during which time console ports were critical to a game's longevity? VF3 being so late to the party is what let Namco casually walk in with Tekken 3 and clean house with no real home competition. VF never recovered from that.

>>10042869
I'm honestly surprised they feel so negative toward the Sega CD. It wasn't that much of a problem for them given it got 200 games and sold two million units.

>>10043057
>PAL-developed game on NTSC = runs 20% faster
Will it even work at all? The few PAL games I know of will roll, be in black and white, or some form of unplayable.

>>10043146
>The joycons are a clever idea but suck dick in reality.
I don't understand why Nintendo came up with a modular controller and refuses to do anything with it besides release a thousand color variants. Hori put out that D-pad joycon but thats about it.

>>10042749
Model 1: Can't texture
Saturn: Textures
Putting out a Model 1 is like putting the 32X up against the PS1. It's going to be slaughtered. The Saturn, architectural difficulty aside, was the correct move to release something with mostly feature parity with the PS1. Model 1 was fast but too lean on features, Model 2 was way out of everyone's budget even slimmed down.

>>10043146
The only time framerate matters at all is when it is causing screen tearing or inconsistency affecting ability timing. I'm playing the recent SMT 3 port that everyone bitched about the framerate in, and guess what, it doesn't matter in the slightest and is, in fact, the same framerate it was on PS2. A lot of old arcade games run at weird framerates in the 50s, by the way.

>>10042426
>>10042420
>>10042429
>neogeo land competition?
What was SNK thinking? SNK had no business opening a theme park.
I don't even understand what people would do at an SNK theme park? Metal Slug themed rides? Neo Geo cabinets everywhere? As cool as the idea sounds on paper to us gamers, I don't think most people would spend big money and go to a theme park just for those things.

SNK weren't as huge as Sega or Namco. SNK was in competition with the smaller Capcom. SNK was a second tier company when it came to finances. They basically had enough money to fund the Neo Geo arcade cabinet, and the niche Neo Geo home console. SNK earned a modest profit. That's it. Funding 2 huge Neo Geo Theme parks sounds insane to me. Sounds like a good way to bankrupt your company.

Theme parks ONLY work in the biggest tourist areas of countries. And even then...It's expensive to run. As a company, you have to be 100% sure your arcade theme park would be a smash hit. It's high risk and high reward. Very big burden.

From what I understand, Sega opened many theme parks across the world without being sure if the they would have good attendance. For example, Sega World Syndey in Australia had much lower than expected attendance numbers and had to close. Sega World South Korea had 2 locations in their country but did so badly in attendance that they closed less than a year after opening. The only theme parks that worked long term for Sega was the ones in Japan, Dubai, and Britain (for a while).

Namco was much wiser. They too had huge themeparks called Namco Wonderparks with rides, roller coasters, and other stuff. But then decided to scale down and just focus on having medium sized arcades instead. Namco closed their massive theme parks and just focused on building a chain of arcade businesses instead. Putting Namco Arcades in Malls, and other touristy areas. Less costly to run and less risk. That's why Namco arcades are still around today. They are smarter with their money

>>10043394
I don't mean putting a PAL disc into an NTSC console, but an NTSC-version of a game from PAL developers.
The devs have to counteract the frequency change from 50Hz to 60Hz if they want the NTSC version to run at the speed they intended it at, but many didn't and that's where the problem lies. (and naturally vice-versa as well.)

Crash Bandicoot iirc is one series where you had American devs, so the games are originally NTSC, but they did do a proper PAL conversion so that it wouldn't run slower.
Final Fantasy IX on the other hand is an NTSC game where the PAL version does not have any change to accommodate PAL's 50Hz, and as a result the PAL version just runs slower than the NTSC.

>>10041350
>>10041567
Archive.org or gtfo

>>10043389
While it didn't sell all that terribly it's very likely 2 million units sold fell far below expectations, which would make it a failure.

>>10042000
>>10041567
Hilarious epitaphs.

>>10041470
Idk that, that’s a super fair comparison. At the time you had 2-3 street fighter series alone that got constant arcade upgrades and home console ports. The reality is at the time, it felt like Capcoms fighters were coming out constantly on the systems, like how many just street fighter games made it to the psx? Like sports titles, if they have a new release every year and simultaneously running franchises there will be a split up among sales.