/vr/ - Retro Games

>>9989905
>What was the general public perception about her and her games really like back in the day?

People who actually played the games loved them. Virtually every 'controversy' was from feminists or whatever who'd only seen advertising/promotions but who'd never played the games and didn't realize that there straight up was nothing sexist about them.

>>9989992
yeah, the controversy is pretty overblown because I have quite a lot of female cousins who grew up with these games around the time they were released and never saw anything wrong with them. plenty of younger girls were fans of the series and had no issue with it at all. weird revisionism imo.

>>9989905
>I never understood the dislike about these games?

Are you insane? Lara and her games were a cultural phenomenon at the time. She was like the first ever game character to feature on non-gaming magazine covers and be used for tv ads

>>9989905
>>9989992
>>9990017
There was hardly any controversy at all. At most someone would point out that the boobs were too huge in a comic way, but that was all.
Nothing compared to Mortal Kombat or Carmageddon.

>>9991000

Agreed - all the controversy in the 90s was about violence in video games, see also GTA and Doom post-Columbine. People generally were pretty happy with sex everywhere for a little while.

Lara Croft was (along with the Spice Girls, Pamela Anderson, and the abundance of Softcore Skin Flicks and Glamour magazines that suddenly appeared everywhere) seen very much at the time as an empowered female figure culturally, and there are women at the time, and now who cited her as why they got into games.

Whether they were empowered or not is a different debate.

In terms of the game itself - even though (according to Wikipedia, I had no idea) it was actually released on the Saturn first, I associated Tomb Raider firmly with the PS1 in the 90s, as did a lot of popular culture. The series was well critically acclaimed, and sold very well, it was fairly groundbreaking at the time, but also (as per another thread up at the moment) came alongside other, more cartoony platformers. This game established 3rd Person action as a commercially viable adult genre in a way that games like Fade to Black and Ecstatica had paved the way for.

>>9989905
The controls are weird and fighting human enemies is awful
They are still mostly great games though

>>9989905
What? This game was big back then, only zoomers hate it for whatever idiotic reason.

>>9989905
>What was the general public perception about her and her games really like back in the day?
I really enjoyed TR2 on the PS1 but there were a lot of other good games around to try on the PS1 so that was the only tomb raider I played back then on the PS1. I remember finding the final boss difficult

>>9989992
>People who actually played the games loved them. Virtually every 'controversy' was from feminists or whatever
Laura Croft was very popular with a few women I know both in the OG PS1 game but also the 2001 movie and the 360 game. She was hawt and had thigh holsters and kicked ass and women actually liked the idea of a female action adventure star.

>>9989992
yeah but commercials were sexualized. in retrospect they aged like fine wine because now this particular promo checks all the fetishes people developed since 1996. much more so than in 1996

>>9991357
whatever, I don't think anyone saw anything sexual in it at all desu. Action stars were expected to be sexy and hawt big titted or muscle whether in movies or games. The whole stuttering incel/tranny/dyke thing just did not exist. Its like saying you watched conan to jack off to Schwarzenegger or the 2001 movie to jack off to Angelina Jolie. If you did I have bad fucking news for you, you can fuck real people or jack off to porn of actual people fucking.

>>9991357

So, here's the thing. The commercials for stuff around the game were absolutely sexualised, and Lara was made into a weird animated sex icon. That ad is a poor example. Try picrel and these:

https://gaming.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/21-vintage-90s-game-ads-that-are-a-nest-of-nostalgia/87403272/

https://www.techspot.com/articles-info/2679/images/2023-06-04-image-3-j_1100.webp

Male Teenagers and students would absolutely have posters of Sarah Michelle Gellar, maybe Jennifer Aniston or Britney and Lara Croft on their walls.

The fact is, in the 90s, this was all considered normal behaviour and the people saying it was objectifying women were considered stuffy outliers. In the zeitgeist, Coy, suggestive seductiveness, and women sleeping around was considered empowering, and a way of beating men at their own game.

It's a different cultural focus now, and I won't get into the ins and outs for fear of summoning the /Pol/ demons, but lets just say there are pros and cons to how things have moved on, and different people see those pros and cons very differently.

As per the posts above - the moral panic around video games was almost all to do with it causing school shootings and violence. I mean, there was even a media panic that tried to pin some blame for 9/11 onto Microsoft Flight Simulator:

https://www.itprotoday.com/windows-78/microsoft-flight-simulator-terrorist-controversy#close-modal

There wasn't really any room for boobs, which were generally considered to be a good thing, and outrage therein.

>>9989992
Amusingly the controversy was only about the “nude mod” and a few misinformed journalists blamed the devs for it. They had to explain time and again”she isnt naked and rhere is no nide code” but they would post blurry screenshots. I thibk hard copy or inside edition tried to blow the whistle on nude mods and how the company should be accountable. The. It all just wen away one day.

>>9991561
does anyone have original nude mod dump for dos?

>>9991516
>"Obviously, everyone's hearts are in this here, too. We don't want to have any imagery in \[the game\] that would upset anyone."
this is literally why dodo in gta3 had wings removed and you couldnt fly. that pissed me off so much when i learned why it was done

Come to think of it, I never found those Lara's early 3D models from all kinds of ads and posters sexually attractive, she's too masculine in there as opposed to in-game Lara from TR1/2.

>>9989905
I bought the game solely because of the sexualized ads and "nude code" bullshit (then I bought it again when I got a new PC and installed the mod), but it was genuinely a pretty fun game. There wasn't any dislike that I can recall except from the religious right/moral majority bitching about titties. Feminists back then were all about empowerment and sexual liberation, so I don't remember any feminists bitching about it.

In the 90s no one cared about how she looked and the games (at least the first three) were pretty popular.

>>9991516
The other day I read an interview with Rhianna Prachett (the writer for the 2013 reboot) and there's a part where she literally says that when she was younger she saw the old Lara as female competition lol

>>9989905
>I never understood the dislike about these games?
What dislike? At the time, she was seen as both THE sex symbol of gaming and THE female protagonist, TR was one of the biggest franchises in the 90s. People joked about "nude mods" and Eidos' promotion campaign that emphasized the sex symbol part, but i don't remember anything deserving to be called "controversy". I am positive that any modern dislike that older titles have is a product of the remake's marketing.

>ctrl+F anything involving the word "box" or "boxes"
Come on, it was the most common complaint of the gameplay, it and Soul Reaver were box puzzle city.

>>9991973
Old Lara has the same power level as Duke Nukem
The first thing nuLara does is get almost raped, then the rest of the game is fapbait for ryonafags

>>9992003
Women also loved Lara and the Tomb Raider games were very popular with women. Wouldn't surprise me if they were half the customers for the games. There were Lara Croft halloween costumes for years and pop culture references for years after even the PS2 games killed the brand.

I remember watching the serial killer Dexter TV series and in the first season (2006) the mom character Dexter is dating dresses up as Lara Croft. This is the same year the PS3 came out and she was still the go-to mascot for sexy video game women.

I think this says something not often talked about when it comes to sexy characters - women feel sexy when they can dress up as them. Suddenly she's not Cassie the neighbor girl who you occasionally see walking her dog she's Lara Croft and all the positive sexual appreciation it nets her. I think the worst thing to happen to Lara was the redesign. Its more than apparent that the designers are really into physical abuse and enjoy the groaned pain zoom ups to her face as a 200 year old spear is implied to be skewering her. I liked it much more when the sexy part of Lara was she's a bad babe with big boobs, a nice booty and can kick ass. Much less "weird" than what we have now.

>that easter egg in Duke Nukem: Time to Kill where you can call Lara on a payphone and listen to her masturbating and moaning

I lived through this era and she got nothing but universal praise.

>>9991516
>le /pol/ boogeyman
>there are pros and cons to how things have moved on

lol

>>9992114
People play up the ryona aspect of the reboot games too much, the originals had some pretty gruesome shit as well, not to that degree granted but you still got the shock of fucking up a jump, Lara shrieking in terror and suddenly going quiet as she snaps her neck.

>>9992167
I'm only trying to play it up in so much that I acknowledge it can be there and this decade has been wild for sexual weirdos in prominent media.

>>9991973

Yup - see Anon here:

>>9991118

>>9991118
>Lara Croft was seen as an empowered female figure culturally

its funny because I grew up in this era and I don't think I even knew what female empowerment was, I just jerked off to them

>>9989905
it was a game for PCfags and eurofags. It looked pretty and edgy, but played like real shit. There were much better options for console owners

>>9989905
I think it's fair to say that she was more popular than her games.
A lot of the media buzz around Tomb Raider made it seem like a pulse-pounding EDM scored shoot-and-scoot type affair. Anyone who's played TR1-3 knows they were meditatively paced and benefitted from a pen and paper in some parts. The action sequences tended to be very brief compared to the "where the fuck do I get an Uli Key?" parts.

So I feel like a LOT more people had her merch and her name in their mouths than actually got past Cistern, Venice, or India.

>>9992206
>It looked pretty and edgy, but played like real shit.
But you see, I played TR2 in the 90s on a PS1 and it was fun and I enjoyed it. It was a good game. If you can't play it now then you are tarded.

>>9992206
>I'm desperately trying to prove I'm not a zoom zoom from reddit!
Just attaching fags or nigger is not the way, newfag. Having a PC port doesn't make it a PC game, either.

>>9989905
>I never understood the dislike about these games?
Question marks go at the end of a question.

>>9992167
What? The 2013 game has that infamous impalation scene. The most hardcore death scene the originals have is the one were she becomes solid gold and none go full bloody carnage like in 2013. Even LAU is free from gore and that's something when it has multiple spike/slice traps.

>>9989905
There's good answers in this thread already but one thing that's not mentioned is that Eidos quickly ran the series into the fucking ground with yearly releases on the same, increasingly creaky feeling engine. And that's not even mentioning Angel of Darkness, the first PS2 game and last one by Core Designs, which was a blatantly unfinished trainwreck that more-or-less killed the series for a while.

>>9993223
>quickly ran the series into the fucking ground with yearly releases on the same, increasingly creaky feeling engine
True, but the ones that were badly received were only the last two though, we can't really talk about "dislike about these games".

>>9992203
it's even funnier because i remember girls in my class actually liked lara croft as character and "wanted to be like her" and cosplayed her often as joke. and that was simply because video games lacked strong female leads in the 90s, so tomb raider was big deal for girls
i think this what was lost. lara was still inherently girl, just very badass one, but that's why girls related to her more than whatever now is being pushed as strong female lead

>>9993110
gore doesnt equal good
in tf1 spikes were "gorier" because you personally felt the pain on interpersonal level, you related to it as now you had to go back to checkpoint, so pain was fucking real. what kinda impact all this nu gore does when you return to 1 second checkpoint right before it

>>9992154
it's hardly easter egg considering it was in first fucking level in the place you naturally go towards
duke also called her name wrong in that phone call. wonder if due to copyright

>>9994458
Jill Valentinesisters? Aya Breasisters? Samussisters? Chun Lisisters? That Darkstalkers girlsisters?

>>9994491
None of those had anywhere close to the cultural impact Tomb Raider did at the time

>>9989905
Tomb Raider was very, very slow. As "dynamic" as they marketed, or purchasers argued, her moveset was lethargic, slow and janky as Hell. Because so much of Playstation's power was augmented to focus on that player model, a lot of the background and supporting art/sound also hit the dumps.

As a character, she was just Carmen Sandiego played by Angelina Jolie for MASSIVE JUGS.

>>9994491
I like all of them, but Lara was more popular. Maybe Chun Li would have a comparable impact as one of the first female characters that became iconic.
The Darkstalkers girls... people remember them more than the games where they appeared, and I think they were very good games. This has a lot of merit.

I thought she was hot back then but didn't play the games until roughly 20 years later because the controls felt horrible even when they were new.

>>9991118

>People generally were pretty happy with sex everywhere for a little while.

Not even close, it's just that not everyone kowtowed to them back then. Some did, some didn't. I remember some woman from Michigan bitching about an episode of Married with Children because she thought it was inappropriate, and Christians never stopped complaining about everything.

>>9994467
>gore doesnt equal good
And who said it does? Retard.

>>9994648
the movement in the games are perfect, there's a puzzle aspect to the tomb raider level design that is explored thru its platforming that rarely gets acknowledged

>>9994839
>the entire world is muttmerica
never change burgers

>>9994839
>days without Americans talking about how much they hate Christians: 0

Tomb Raider peaked in popularity with II, she was still super popular with III but her popularity was slowly waning. IV already had less fans caring about and when V came out most people had moved on, they were tired of annual releases and were now hyped for other games. The series has never really recovered in terms of cultural significance even if say the LAU trilogy might've sold more.
>>9989992
funnily enough I don't think lara had any sexualized outfits in any of the games, I don't think she even wears a bikini in any of the classic games.

>>9995579
How DARE they talk about our precious cult

>>9995702
>sold more.
this myth really needs to stop. just because something sold more in future doesnt mean economically it means the same thing. time moves on, so are the prices and economy. when something costed $10 in 1950 costed $100 in 2000 costed $200 in 2023 and so on so fourth

>>9995973

Tech demo

>>9995702
>people had moved on, they were tired of annual releases and were now hyped for other games
They moved on only because the last two games were not as good. They managed to have 4 successful games in a raw released yearly.

>>9994839
One thing to take into account is that, even if there were people talking about games being too violent (it was the main topic back then), the press of that time was against censorship. And magazines would often show sexy pictures of the DOA girls or Lara, because they knew readers were mostly young males. These days they act as if people should adapt to them and not the other way.

How many other vidya franchises/characters have roads named after them?

>>9991000
If there was any controversy, it would probably be less about the boobs and more about what felt like the same game being released again 4 times. Before I got into the series, I remember looking at the boxes for the pc games in a store back in the day and not being able to tell the difference between 2 and 3 from the screen shots. Add to that peoples reception to the controls and there you go.

>>9995702
>funnily enough I don't think lara had any sexualized outfits in any of the games, I don't think she even wears a bikini in any of the classic games.
>2
Nightgown
Arguably the swimsuit
>3
Bikini top and shorts
Catsuit
>5
Schoolgirl outfit (if you're a degenerate)
Latex Catsuit

And it shouldn't be forgotten that Lara's iconic look was pretty sexy stuff for the mainstream of the time.

>Four really good games on the Playstation
>Two Blockbuster movies
>Toy line
>Comic line
>Saturday Morning cartoon in the works.
All went up in smoke by 2003 because Eidos was made up of a bunch of incompetent fuckwits.

>>9990996

Lara Croft was essentially PlayStation* Super Mario, she became the mascot and had huge non-video game cross-over appeal

*TR was also on PC and Saturn but no one gave a shit

>>9995860
speak for your yourself, rabbi.

>>9997752
>>Saturday Morning cartoon in the works.
first time I hear about this, you don't mean the gametap episodes?
>>9997362
>>9997354
any full scans of this?

>>9997758

PC was where I first played, but I couldn’t get far (also I was probably like 9) … TR 3 for PS1 was easier to handle for sure.

>>9989905
not really a tomb raider guy myself but growing up she was THE video game girl for alot of people back in the day and was a pretty big cultural icon like >>9990996 & >>9997758 said.

something i don't think the current generation of waifushit & "strong female characters" or even her contemporaries at the time have ever been able to achieve. which makes the series downfall and replacement by uncharted pretty sad.

>>9997768
i never got the rage over this pic

>>9998328
They were included in a old torrent posted long time ago that included the games, but i bet they're available in any of the multiple TR fansites.

>>9991973
>Pratchett tells me she played a couple of the classic games, but she wasn't a "massive Tomb Raider fan" before working on the reboot.
>"I'd seen the movies, of course. But I was actually put off as a younger female gamer by the way [Tomb Raider] was advertised," she admits. "It was all sort of like, nudge, nudge, wink, wink to the guy. And you know, she was very much marketed to the guys and that your girlfriend will be jealous and that sort of thing."
>Pratchett says her younger self "just couldn't be doing with it" and so instead went off to play other things. "However," she continues, "thanks to writers like me or Neil Druckmann, female protagonists no longer receive that treatment, now they are realistic characters that women can relate to instead of competing with them."
kek

>>10001357
>"thanks to writers like me or Neil Druckmann, female protagonists no longer receive that treatment,"
Jesus. Didn't fucking Druckmann kick Amy Hennig to the curb during Uncharted 4's development? Legit question, I've heard multiple conflicting versions about it.

>you will never be on the playground with the boys talking about the nude cheat
why go on...

>>10001357
Apparently character development is having seven shades of shit kicked out of you, being impaled, almost raped, and watching loved ones die horribly. And yet the real Lara didn't need any of that to be compelling to both men and women.

>>10001357
>now they are realistic characters that women can relate to instead of competing with them

Straight out of the horse's mouth. Im so glad I was born a man and not a chick or an incel, I can't imagine being that much of a loser that I would look at duke nukem getting surrounded by babes, and start getting mad at a bunch of pixels having a better game than me.

>>10001446
Yes. And then made changes to U4's script which was already done, adding a negro Mary Sue.

>>10001357
>I'd seen the movies, of course
kek

>>10001357
>can't have strong female characters anymore without them having some kind of raype trauma or getting physically abused nonstop

not only is the unhealthy for women, its actually legitimately fucked up. what the hell.

>>10002121
You don't understand. These people have a deep seated hatred for men. In their minds women aren't strong or empowered unless they drive it home how inherently evil men are.

>>10002125
>In their minds women aren't strong or empowered unless-

but that's the flaw.
they already 'are' strong and empowered. they don't need to prove anything.

>>10002150
stop trying to rationalize these animals. they're not your equal. If you treat them as such you've already lost.

>>10001357
Wasn't there also some sort of "We're taking this character back." article as well.

is she even an anti-hero in the new games? that's what i liked about old lara.

>>10005073
no, she's a retarded cunt that cries about killing a man in a cutscene, and 5 minutes later she's mowing down 100s of them.

>>9991000
>the boobs were too huge in a comic way,
But they aren't. There are many women with breasts this size on a slim body. And they don't have implants either.

>>10005106
See Ellen Roche, a Brazilian model that even cosplayed as Lara at some point. She was also in Playboy, her bazoongas are huge and natural, and she was very slim. Many jerks were had back in the day.

>>10005150
or just take a casual glance around tiktok

Trying to stop sexualizing Lara Croft so much just caused the Streisand Effect, leading to such glorious animations as Lara w/ Horse and Borders of the Tomb Raider. I would also argue the chilling effects of feminist ideology making its way into videogames is why we now have all those fetishistic death animations in the newer games.

The West would rather show gore to teens knowing full well it will arouse them, rather than just put make polygonal pin-ups.

>>9995702
>Tomb Raider peaked in popularity with II, she was still super popular with III but her popularity was slowly waning. IV already had less fans caring about and when V came out most people had moved on, they were tired of annual releases and were now hyped for other games
The 90's Assassins Creed.

>>10006336
But Tomb Raider was actually good.

>>10005902
A lot of the media outside of the games has been reverting back to her classic look as well. Fortnite used a stylized version of her old look for their promotion.

>>9989905
>False statement projection in the opening
>Hidden boobs
>Garbled syntax
Hello, bot-kun
Go fuck yourself, you fucking toaster

>>9989992
>Virtually every 'controversy' was from feminists or whatever who'd only seen advertising/promotions but who'd never played the games and didn't realize that there straight up was nothing sexist about them.
Which also didn't happen back in the day, because through the 90s and early 00s Lara was hailed as a feminist icon, too.
Do I seriously need to remind people that the mere fucking concept of having a female lead that fights her way through any danger was such a fucking novelty mere 25 years ago?

I just played Tomb Raider for about an hour and the game is boring as hell. Did people only like it because it was one of the first fully 3d games of it's type? Because there is nothing there to enjoy, particularly when you compare it to 2d platformers with shooting that already existed.

>>9997765
Lucky lil’ fella

>>10005079
Kek

>>10001206
It caused rage? i remember seeing it on some game mag when i was alot younger and thought it was mildly amusing

>>9989992
>Virtually every 'controversy' was from feminists
Most feminists didn't bother with vidya back then, and actually liked that there was once a strong female protagonist that wasn't hidden in a suit.

The games were a letdown for many as they were marketed as non-stop action games starring a femme fatale but were slow, methodic puzzle games with clunky combat starring a blocky and somewhat modest woman.
Once the fad died people started seeing the games for what they really were.

>>10006347
>But Tomb Raider was actually good.
lmao

>>10008317
>>10008783
Filtered samefag

>>9991373
>I don't think anyone saw anything sexual in it at all desu
You cannot seriously be so retarded as to think Lara Croft wasn't sexualized from the start, the entire character was sold on sex appeal

>>10009235
>>I don't think anyone saw anything sexual in it at all desu

It was never a dominant part of the character. Especially the games themselves when you spent 90% of the time looking at her back

>>10009485
Lara was sexualized in ads and promotional material and how most people knew her. Eidos basically had a free model and milked that hard.

>>9989905
Shill thread

>>10008115
If anyone was enraged they were probably not old enough to know the reference to a 1993 Rolling Stone cover that would still be fresh in people's minds

https://calendar.songfacts.com/september/16/17215

>>9989905
>What was the general public perception about her and her games really like back in the day?
Cultural icon. Everyone knew who Lara Croft was. It transcended gaming.
masterpieces , everyone loved the first two

>>10009551
>Lara was sexualized in ads and promotional material
>how most people knew her

I wasn't even a teen when I first came across her. We barely even had ads for her and I simply thought her design looked cool because I hadn't even hit puberty yet. And I liked the games.
I feel like people blow her sexualization out of proportion now because people assume the mass-marketing you have today was somehow the exact same at the time these games were released.

>>10009703
yeah, and I remember another playstation mag (maybe the official UK one) did one but with Gex and a playboy model, may have been my first boner. I think the Gex one was parodying the Lara Croft one though. I remember that issue also had reviews for Dew Prism and Suikoden II

>>10008115
There was no rage over it. But you know, the internet. We have to pretend there was rage over things that occured over half a century ago cause it's hard to disprove it.

>>10009562
sorry that you don't like og Lara anon.

>>10009703
To be fair, Janet Jackson and her legacy ceased to exist after the Super Bowl scandal. If anyone, especially zoomers, saw the Lara parody they wouldn't even know who Janet Jackson was let alone it's meant to be a parody.

It's not like Google Groups doesn't exist so you can actually look at what real people were posting at the time.

So out of curiosity I checked the Tomb Raider forums and found mention of a comic called Boob Raider: The Adventures of Lara Crotch, complete with a listing saying it sold 1,284 copies in May 1999 but no further info. There's both a Mad Magazine and Cracked magazine that also have features on her that month but no hint at whatever Boob Raider was.


https://archive.org/details/cracked-335/page/17/mode/2up

>>10010886
Well I think I found a publisher called Blatant Comics that may have been the publisher (the site listed a Crosby as the publisher but searching that name plus comics brings up that company.) This was a buffy one from the same era. It's so obscure it might not actually be on the internet.

It only got as popular as it did because the protag was touted as "the first lady of 3D!" on magazine covers to win over female players. Add booba, now you have male players flocking to a game with a female protagonist. They would have lured them in with disgusting neo-nigmutt genderfluid character design like today but the young masses of the 90s were not brainwashed yet like the generation to proceed them so they stuck with adding prominent booba instead. Now young men are being subverted by watching unrealistically strong whamen (with booba to keep them interested). The whamen are thinking "she's literally me, girlpower yaaa!". TR was one of the earliest woke psyops by a corporation to siphon money from as wide of a player demographic as possible while pushing a subtle narrative and using pandering to lock them in. Check em.

>>9989905
>>10011191
Excuse me, that was my perception at the time.
General perception was more like;
>how the fuck do you control this shit?
>haha boobies
>wtf boobies?
>nude codes
>nude patch
>learning about rule34
>my 486 can't run this for shit
and occasionally
>this game is pretty cool
They're Vague memories now.

>>10011191
I actively feel myself actively becoming more stupid trying to read this

>>10010857
based John Johnson

>>9989905
There wasn't really much of dislike, they were seen as something novel and even revolutionary.
There was a sense that future games would be like that, which wasn't wrong, TR pretty much started a genre (alongside Mario 64) that is still popular today.
I only remember some tendies being smug about how Mario did everything better but that was always there with tendies.

>>10011191
(You)

Eidos's fuckups during the era between The Last Revelation and Angel of Darkness pretty much sealed the fate of Lara as a Pop Culture icon. Even if the Crystal Dynamics games consistently sell well, they are no different than modern AAA games and quickly drop off.

>>10008115
>It caused rage?
some game magazine had to wrote something, so they wrote about the pic

>>10010857

>>10011191
sir, this isn't a reddit board.

>>9989905
There was a controversy? I never play these games but she just a video game character like anyone else no one really said shit.

>>9989905
What’s generally considered to be the best game in the series? 2? Anniversary?

>>9989905
I really enjoyed the ones I played.
I don't get the hate either.

Mists of Avalon got patched this month.

>>10017458
First area had better exploration than anything crystal dynamic lol

>>10015892
1 and TLR

and I softlocked myself