/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10312973
>is more like blowing up every single wall in Zelda 1.

>>10312994
Don't take take the standard /vr/ bait at face value. Bombing in Zelda 1 is only monotonous if you're retarded and make it that way. Your bomb supply is renewable, but capped low to begin with (8). This encourages you to try and place bombs where you think a secret might be, not just spamming them one step at a time. Each dungeon room has only four possible wall exits (and one possible floor exit). Already we are down to a room requiring a maximum of 4 bombs to test for secrets. But most rooms already have a door or two, further reducing the possibilities. Finally, you can make judicious use of the map to predict the walls where bombs are most likely to work.

Consider picrel. You can enter the first three rooms freely. The locked door in the north-from-entrance room will tell you that there's a room north of the east-from-entrance room. So before using your key to reach the old man from the west, try bombing in from the south (keys are more valuable than bombs, typically). There's no clue for the western hole in the north-from-entrance room, but if you stumble in here without the ladder you may just drop a bomb there anyway because what else are you going to do? Meanwhile if you do move on, you can confirm the reward for using the key by entering the map room from the east. Then you'll have the dungeon map, which well show you where there are rooms on the other side of walls.

>>5264271
Zelda 1 puzzles worked because there was synergy between base mechanics and the puzzle design. The entire world was built with puzzle objects, versus modern games that design a realistic 3D world then have to add mechanical restrictions arbitrarily to create puzzles.

>>5019836
>I'm literally comparing block puzzles from two games in the same series. How is that a troll argument?
Because LoZ didn't have block puzzles you dumb fuck. Finding the hidden switch is not a puzzle it's just a test of "did you remember to check for hidden switches before moving to the next room?" Which seems like a trivial thing until you remember the dungeons in LoZ1 are often full of enemies that are actually dangerous unlike ALTTP where you can just spam Ether.

>LoZ had puzzles, they just just weren't as streamlined as later adventure games.
In LoZ, the dungeons are the puzzles. They're mazes that give meaning to exploration and decisions you make about use of resources like bombs and keys.

ALTTP has this dynamic too, but it's a huge mistake to think that it's categorically superior as there are many mechanics that are not as good. Bombing walls is an obvious example. In LoZ1, every wall is a potential secret, but you can use observation, logic and reasoning to make efficient use of bombs. Every dungeon in the game involves using this kind of logic to some degree in a consistent manner. Meanwhile, in ALTTP the game just puts a crack in the wall to show you where to put your bomb. You might as well just have a big fucking green arrow and then Navi saying "Hey Link! Maybe you should put a bomb right here with there's a crack in the wall!!"

>>4960019
Binary-thinking retard, as expect. Just don't use keys until you've checked to see if there's another way into the room. There are many different ways, such as being able to identify the boss room from hearing the roar and using the compass.

See the attached illustration for how to do it, if you are literally too dumb to understand the concept. Also, advanced users pay attention to what dungeon items they've collected and can reason about the likelihood that whatever is behind has something worthwhile.