/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10626673
I got really deep into Shiren and was liking it a lot but ended up doing a bunch of testing and realized the game is heavily influenced by the fortune teller's weather predictions to the point that empty runs without built up items are only possible given certain weather. Basically, the game has a series of pre-set floors with certain preset monsters and items. Then there are various weather effects which the fortune teller will hint at, Hot Winds, Warm Breezes etc. When you start a run it selects a list of levels and them alters them depending on the weather. So on the same map under one condition you can collect all the items, in another there are more weed bandits who transform most no matter what and more traps. I don't like roguelikes where you build up items or other things between runs so I lost a lot of interest after that. But it still does have a ton of charm, some day if I ever have time to get into programming I'd like to make a real roguelike using it's graphics and music.

>>10405989
The problem with roguelike games on console is they can't generate and hold in memory actually random levels. So instead they have a series of pre-made levels that get cycled through. Shiren tries to randomize things a little more like with the fortune teller who predicts the weather for the run. You still get the same maps, but a 'hot winds' run for example has more traps and certain enemies swapped out.

>>9447815
I did a ton of testing a few years back on the DS port and SFC original after I couldn't get reliable info on whether the fortune teller's fortunes have any effect. I did most testing on the original rom using save scumming then confirmed the DS port works the same.

I learned 2 main things. First thing being her fortunes do indeed have quite a significant effect and second that none of the game maps are actually random, they are all pre-made and cycle through a given order.

Each time you take a step or action, the next map up cycles by one. It's the same in towns as dungeons this way you can have the same map generate with different weather predictions. I did calm breezes and hot winds. Hot winds maps both have more traps than the calm breeze, certain fewer items and different enemies. In particular, there are floors in the hot winds run where no matter what you do it's impossible to get more than 2 out of the 5 items that spawn there. Regardless which you go for, weed bandits will make it to the others. The calm breeze version of thar map has only 1 or 2 weed bandits and if you go the right way you can get every item.

Interesting stuff, but I think I got too stuck in the details and lost interest in the game. I don't like most of the other MD ganes but recently started getting into Etrian MD after initial disappointment and I am really digging it now.

>>7003249
Right, so the map and fortune are separate. Her fortune will change depending both on the number of steps you have taken as well as when you change directions. That's also how the game selects which map you will get each time.

So by doing a bunch of walking back and forth, counting steps and saving I was able to get it so the game would generate the same map with with different weathers.

By same map, I mean the exact same floor lay out and most of the same enemy and item placements. The enemies will be in the same locations but for example in one version most of them are evil soldiers which are easy enough to deal with whereas in the other half of them are field bandits who turn everything to weeds before you can get to them. There were also mines in that version where there weren't in the other.

The way the game generates which map you will reach next also by the number of steps, turns you've taken and times you've changed direction. So after getting to a new map and making a save I would explore more or less normally at first to see what monsters, items and traps etc were there. Then when ready to move on I just had to make sure that I followed the same steps and turns to make it to the exit and by doing so the next map would be the same also. That's when I started to notice how enemy hits didn't seem to be random either since I'd end up fighting the same couple enemies dozens of times through the testing and started to note that if one missed when I first encountered it that it always would on that round.

>>6959646
Unwinnable as in you don't have a lot of options in Shiren other than attack or using an item you have at your disposal. So for one your success in a blind run depends greatly on finding a decent weapon and even moreso on building up a store of useful items.

So in two seeds of the same level layout, one with favorable weather and the other with "cold winds" a given floor had a number of very useful items, a decent sword, two big riceballs (needed to keep hunger at bay) a blastwave scroll (very important for higher levels) and jar of holding (also super handy). In the favorable run depending how I ran it I could get all the items knowing where they and enemy positions were. Otherwise it was likely as on my first time through that I would get most.

On the "Cold Winds" run some enemies are replaced with Field Bandits who turn every item into weeds before you can get to them. Through many loads and reloads I was only able to get the jar before it was ruined and only if I knew where it was and to beeline for it. Something you could never know playing normally.

To compound things like valuable food being turned into weeds, there will be far more traps in your way. So the hunger clock means you can't practically check every square before proceeding meaning you will walk into traps that fuck you up.

The whole game is literally a big slot machine that takes ages to tell you whether you lost or not.

>>6674930
Here is the explosion trap mentioned. Each time you enter the level everything is exactly the same including items found and whether enemies will drop an item when killed.

Furthermore the same with going from a town to dungeon, the next maps you will come to can also be predicted and replicated. Whether you stay on the same path in terms of icy winds, firey winds etc I haven't determined yet but from my experience with Shiren previous to this it would seem like if it was a trap-laden dungeon that it would be like that for the whole journey.

If there's interest I'll update as I learn more.