/vr/ - Retro Games

>>11427326
Traditionally, not quite, as the gameplay has a pretty strong arcade-ish action bent, but Doom's approach to level design is VERY strongly informed by real life tabletop RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons. The guy who did half of the maps in Doom and Doom 2 was also the guy who developed the Call Of Cthulhu pen paper game, and who did all kinds of other tabletop work and magazine writing in that industry before he did Doom, while the other guys were all big nerds too, many who used to play a bunch of D&D together on breaks during Wolfenstein 3D's development.

>>9604910
>love that part in dissolution of eternity where if you shoot the jesus portrait, you get shocked and a text saying "do not defy god"
I wonder if that came from those devs independently, or if it's based on the story about the Jesus figure in the original Quake.

>be Sandy
>be 100% mormon
>go and work on some action adventure games where you go to evil places and fight evil creatures
>don't take any issues with the satanic or occult imagery, because it represents the badguys who the player fights against, Satan/Shub Niggurath is unambiguously evil
>don't take any issues with the graphic violence because it's just cartoons, also love all kinds of different horror movies, including a lot of really lowbrow and/or violent ones
>"Hey Sandy, is it ok if we put Jesus on the walls in Quake?"
>"Jesus? Sure, I love Jesus!"
>Romero once uses the head cropped from that for a floor switch
>asked if he can change it to something else
>sure
And that's the only moral objection he ever had on any of the content in the games which he worked on at iD. The question is if the guy who made that level in Dissolution Of Eternity had heard about that story somehow, and was riffing off of that, or if he was just religious himself and came to that conclusion. Either is funny.

>>5938674
>poor
>still had both
Having divorced parents had its perks.

>>5910406
Who could play 1993 era Sandy?

>>5768590
Continuing with this one:
https://donanimgunlugu.com/efsane-sandy-petersen-ile-roportaj-192559/2
The phrasing and grammar is pretty odd at times, even on some of Sandy's answers, I figure the reporter isn't 100% fluent at English. I figure even if his questions are strangely worded, most of what Sandy replied is pretty clear and tells of something.

>You made games based on your nightmares, including Doom, you said. So, can you tell us some of that nightmares, if you still remember?
>>Well one such level was Doom 2 level 24, The Chasm. I had a nightmare in which I was moving through a network of walkways and narrow bridges over incredibly deep dark chasms. So I made a level to reflect it.

>I wonder especially a level from Doom II. Doom II have a level, like a library. Books everywhere. What’s the story behind that?
>>I assume you are talking about Doom 2 Level 27, Monster Condo. Yes I have a recurring nightmare about a library which has a secret room in which is something horrible. So I created a level with such a library. [as he described in another interview]

>>5539861
Oh gosh, E3M1, one of his weakest maps, possibly one of the earliest he made, gee, it sure looks weak next to E1M1.

Go practice mapping, maybe one day you can be as good as Sandy.

>>5232614
Oh, I quite disagree with that.

>>5057662
They see his bad maps in Doom 2 and ignore the fact that he made most of Doom 1's levels and many of Quake's
Very foolish!

>>5016216
Doom 2 was a bit rushed, and Romero was high as a kite on his inflated ego, he'd go deathmatch randos and talk to the press more often than he would work on Doom 2.

Which isn't to say the work he DID do on Doom 2 wasn't good, it was, but it suffered from his absence, Sandy Peterson ended up picking up a lot of John Romero's slack, and while Sandy genuinely is a good mapper who can craft a good map to play (because he's an elder nerd with decades of experience with roleplaying games and a strong affinity for Lovecraft and other classic horror; he puts together a good dungeon for the player to take on), he had to do lot more work than he should have, thus even if he did make some very good maps for Doom 2, he had to just kind of phone it in for a few maps and some of them are pretty weak.
He maybe also doesn't have the strongest sense for aesthetics, so texture choices maybe are a bit unusual at times.

Consider that the man made just about half of all of Doom and Doom 2's maps together; he made a lot of genuinely good stuff and was very creative. It's just kind of been a popular thing to give him shit because of his not always amazing visuals. A lot of people who complain about his maps often in the same breath will talk about how much better Doom 1's maps were, forgetting he made many of their favorite maps.

Basically, they stretched Sandy's capabilities as a mapper kind of thin for Doom 2, and Romero should have done more, so that's why the game was such a mixed bag in terms of level quality.

>>4882157
My body is ready

>>4870258
Go home and be a family man.

>>4688442
I mourn not for the loss of those.

>>4688416
I think a lot of them are genuinely good, E2 had a lot of him reworking scrapped Tom Hall maps, and this had amazing results, E3 had less of that, but plenty Sandy originals, most which were fine or even really good.
Doom 2 had a whole lot of maps by him, and some of them were genuinely poor (probably because he was pressed for time), while a lot of them were quite good, not even counting the last Tom Hall scrap he competently salvaged.

He's not a flawless mapper, but he's by no means bad either, because he clearly knows how to make dungeons for players, lots of his work is genuinely good. The hate he gets is at least partially undeserved.

>>4428664
He just has a lot of kids, and his kids just have a lot of kids, that's what mormons do, they fuck a lot and don't do birth control, no fucks given except the literal ones.
He's a real cool grandpa.

>>4428746
Well yeah, he made a lot of 'concept maps', but those also change things up, lord knows Doom 2 needed some spice in it's levels, Barrels Of Fun does something new by putting you in a situation where you have to absolutely run for it or die
It's also true what they say on Evolution Of The Wad, a lot of staple concepts and ideas we see in map making, old and new, was first pioneered by him.

I think some of my very favorite maps in all of Doom are the ones where they were alpha or beta maps by Tom Hall which were then retooled and finished by Sandy, it makes for a mix of Tom Hall's more 'realistic' architecture with Sandy's Wild Ride

>>2466624
Is that romero's jacket? What a homo.

>>2421125
Really? Map 01 to Map 11 I think are the best parts of Doom 2, it really starts to suck at Map 12 in my opinion, I mean, there's still some good levels after that, but how unfun Map 12 is kind of sets the tone for how the rest of the maps aren't going to be quite as fun as the previous ones.

And also, while I genuinely like Sandy Petersen (both as a person and as a mapper), they shouldn't have let him do so many of the maps, especially not in a row, they should definitively have dragged in Romero at gunpoint and made him do more maps, as well as maybe let American alter and redo some of his maps, if only for variations sake.

And then let some people just touch up the maps because even if his maps are fun in controlled doses, they could be really fucking ugly at the same time.

>>2375506
How about a demon city? Whether it be primitive or complex I think it would be cool.

>>2345952
>>2345931
>>2345913
>>2345910
>>2345887
I don't hate all of his maps (though I do hate some of them), and I think he's a cool guy.

>>1811852
>I don't know how the impossible architecture of Rlyeh would work in Doombuilder, though.

That was the design philosophy behind the maps Sandy Petersen did for Doom, as a huge Lovecraft nerd, he decided that he would make the maps all abstract and bizarre in architecture.

>>1805451
>>1805435
>>1805387
>>1805367

>>1499054
He really is, he's qualified fa/tg/uy material, he has a love for H.P Lovecraft and Call Of Cthulu (he wrote an entire module for it), though a lot of his levels are pretty ugly, they're all really fun and absurd to play.

>>1404824

>>1376880
So no setting for abstract architecture or stuff like that?

>>1349140
>E2 largely designed by Tom and Sandy
Huh, that must be why I like E2 so much.

>>1298348
>Sounds like a bad designed secret.
>thinking outside the box and being rewarded for it is bad design
Well ok.