/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8027686
1, they're both fantastic games but 1's levels are cool and it has cyberspace

>>7715092
>I get how it applies to the original Deus Ex and System Shock.
Only the first SS really too, because the original System Shock somewhat tries to simulate a space station while the second one does less so. I'm not bashing SS2 I love the game, but it's further from the sim aspects than SS1 and Deus Ex were.

Thief probably gets lumped in there because it tries it's hardest to simulate being a Thief in that setting and it was made by the same group of people who made the other Immersive Sims.

>>7487498
I played enhanced. Couldn't stomach the UU controls and HUD. Even the original devs say you should use mouselook.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q

There is one caveat though. The original controls make the horror and ambush aspects of the game MUCH more pronounced. There was a huge article by some SS1 speed runner who had a huge breakdown of how different configurations for the game change it completely. Things like the sense-around (rearview mirror basically) are much more valuable. You have to be way more cautious because it's a lot harder to flick and blast a guy in your blind spot. Did I mention the devs love their ambushes?

It can be Doom or Resident Evil, but that's really just SS1 in a nutshell. Even outside of settings, the game gives you so many options and tools to work with you can basically pick your own playstyle. The mouselook vs default preference is just the cherry on top.

>>7487524
Controls aren't the biggest barrier of the game. It's the first 2 levels. The first one is you just running around killing enemies for health kits, most of it is just blue hallways, and some parts of it are maintenance areas but it's really bland. Next level is the same thing except no health kits. Once you get to the third level and the game opens up that's when it really sells you. Really glad I knuckled on through. Probably should do the same for UU.

>>7203215
For me the game really picked up after level 3. When I played those first 2 levels it felt like there was absolutely no rhyme or reason. I just assumed every single level was going to be a brightly lit hallways on a grid. When level 3 was pitch black and actually had an identifiable layout that's when I got hooked.

R-Level and Level 5 aren't really mazelike. I know R at least has a very wide obvious main hallway. Level 4 was a bonus area designed by someone who wasn't even on the team.

>>6898908
>People talk about SS1's labyrinthine level design (that's more akin to a dungeon crawler) as a positive, but what's the point of exploring it all when there's so little to find?
You never played the game if you unironically believe that. You can find so many high level mods early on or even weapons that don't appear anywhere else (or you get them early) if you actually explore. It actually feels like you discovered something and not just generic experience points. It's not even a labyrinth, at least not any more than SS2 is. The levels almost perfectly model the 3d model for the space ship you see and it lends itself way more to backtrack/metroidvania style gameplay than SS2 does.

I can see why you would believe that if you got filtered by the first 2 levels, which I did to at first too. They are both fucking horrible.

>>6705914
They both are amazing games for different reasons.

I think I prefer 1 just because it does the metroidvania aspect way better. It feels a lot more like you are actually on a space station and are going wherever you need to be. Once you hit level 3 you can pretty much go anywhere aside from the end. 2 was a lot more linear even if you exclude the end part, because you mostly are just going from floor to floor in order visiting each area once and backtracking only to press a button in engineering. Yeah in 1 you would only see some areas once but it wasn't as bad as it was in 2.

Really it just comes down to if you prefer the horror/RPG aspects of 2 or the exploration/items aspects of 1.

Love both SS1 and SS2, but SS1 is better. SS2 beats it in the spooky horror aspect, though.

>>6536589
For sure. I've been playing Thief for ages and didn't even touch SS until this year. Both games have LGS's charm, but 2 absolutely REEKS of Thief. A lot of animations and sound effects from Thief are in SS2. You will also have to sneak up on enemies a lot to conserve ammo and get the drop on them or get your dick flattened. However, jumping straight to 2 would be like playing Thief 2 without playing 1. You'd be missing a lot of backstory, so references to past events and stuff would be lost on you.

That being said. I honestly prefer 1 to 2. 1 just feels better designed overall. Not saying that 2 is bad, but 1 is probably one of my favorite games of all time behind the Dark Project. There are some hurdles though. The first 2 levels in SS1 are boring as fuck and awful, and I almost wrote the whole game off entirely because of them. The game doesn't pick up until you get to the 3rd level because then it takes the training wheels off, SHODAN actually starts fucking with you, and the game really opens up letting you explore whatever parts of it you want. SS2 also starts out really slow and it didn't really grab my interest until halfway into the game.

>>6333720
I tried to get into it multiple times but couldn't do it. Entire game feels like exploring a rat maze. Some of the rooms are interesting but the way they are connected feels totally random. It's kinda jarring considering how this map layout pic makes the game look like it actually has a lot of thought put into it.

I miss level design.

It seems like all the most popular modern games, both AAA and indie have moved towards either open world or procedural generation. A few great developers still understand the art of level design (Arkane, From Software), but even the likes of Nintendo have been moving towards aimless open worlds over tightly crafted experiences. Indie devs also fall back on procedural generation and rogue-like elements because it's an easy excuse to do less work.

>>3443549
System Shock 1

>>3221287