/vr/ - Retro Games

hi there

>>8528907
None. They're actually step backs and bastardizations of RPGs made of the era. The idea is to evolve them graphically from the simple Ultima and Wizardry games. First Dragon's Quest got huge and showed your character on an overworld instead of a first person dungeon. Then Final Fantasy did a step further by showing both your characters and enemies on screen at the same time. This is an evoultion right?

Nope. It's a devloution! It's made the graphics better, but it's also muddled what's even going on. In D&D your characters are visualized in your mind and fights are given as abstractions. That is carried over to Wizardry and Dragon's Quest. In FF your charactes are shown, and supposedly that's what they're doing... standing still not moving and taking hits and exchanging blows which is absurd. Why would anyone stand still?

My viewpoint is that battles shoudl either be real time or 100% offscreen abstractions. Not any of this middle ground that Final Fantasy promoted which muddles what is actually going on.

And dungeons goes from complex mazes that you have to solve, to simple as hell because you need to show your character sprite. You are given little control if any over your character progression and not much options for character customization. The Job based games have more since you can at least create your class, but your customization goes down in later games.

I get why they got big: better graphics to show off. but they're step back and moving away from TTRPG. But think: the game should be a big puzzle. What problems am I really over coming vs. are these games just creating a lot of time wasting situations? It's not hard, and it doesn't require being clever, just ensure your stats are up, keep healing, and fight to level up, buy new gear, repeat.

If you have to bring out graph paper, then it means you're playing a real game.

What you should play instead:

>Wizardry
>Megami Tensei
>Nihon Falcom series

I win

>>6401470
There's more. Trebor the ghost not only insta-kills you, but he can move through walls, and he moves in real-time while your movement is turn-based. This means you can leave the game sitting there while your mom tells you to take the trash out and you can come back to a game over screen in what you thought was a turn-based game.

Also, you know how you were expected to draw a physical map on graph paper like you were playing D&D? Wizardry 4 had all sorts of map shit just to fuck with you. When you load your save game after Trebor killed you, try to draw this absolute bullshit (pic related) with a pencil. There are spinners, teleporters, one-way walls (some of which drop you in 1x1 rooms you can't escape unless you have the right spell), land mines, and more. There are riddles that require intense knowledge of the first three games to solve, and GameFAQs won't exist for another decade. One riddle even demands you know a catchphrase used frequently on the game creator's BBS; hopefully your mom will let you make a long-distance phone call.

I have respect for anyone who can get through Wizardry 4 even with a guide and maps. It's the I Wanna Be the Guy of CRPGs.

>>6340404
Drawing your own map is a pain in the ass and why I never beat any of these games as a kid.

Look at this shit.

>>6221168
>blatant tree in the middle of the map
Woah... so this is what... "respecting the player's intelligence" means in 1986.

Pic related is what respecting the player's intelligence is. Good luck beating this game if you are a casual retard.

Opening up with this gem from Wizardry 4.

Here's one level of this hair-pulling, life-draining nightmare of a game. It gets harder and more complex afterwards.

>>5271976
Wizardry 4 maps for reference
http://www.tk421.net/wizardry/wiz4maps.shtml

>>2100371
Have you played a Wizardry game before? Even with mapping you can still get lost.

>>869341
>it's usually come down to Wizardry 4

I've ground through the majority of games that make the "hardest game ever" lists.

I am also a wizardry veteran and enjoy it's clones. But I absolutely refuse to even give wizardry 4 a chance out of principle.

It is the "tomb of horrors" of the RPG world. It was designed from day 1 to punish players and the developers were willing to sacrifice everything else to achieve that goal.

I don't even consider Wizardry 4 to be a video game. It is a psychological experiment dreamed up by sadists and gamers are the test subjects.

>>652650
>I don't really see much of a difference between having the computer mark the map and drawing it yourself.
Imagine having to map this then.