/vr/ - Retro Games

>>11102381
It's very good, but you're also expected to have a good grasp on Doom 2's gameplay to play it. Going by UV, Plutonia was designed to start out at the level of Doom 2's endgame difficulty and then escalating steadily from there.

The levels are tough but fair, and occasionally there's a pretty mean trap or ambush, but most of the levels aren't very long either, and the monster count is actually mostly restrained, using enemies smartly rather than in sheer numbers.
Looking at HMP, Plutonia's gameplay is still mostly the same, but this difficulty tones down the traps and ambushes a good bit so that they're much more lenient.

It is hard, but you could start out doing it all on HMP, then if you liked it, do a victory lap on UV, and if you can do that, you should be capable of handling many of the popular levelsets over the years. There's harder stuff out there, MUCH harder, but Plutonia's level of challenge is a popular one in the overall community because it's something to bite into for someone who's beat Doom and Doom 2 on UV and consider them easy.

>>11016486
I love SOTN, but it's arguably even less an RPG than OOT.
Maybe CRPGs make me biased, but I think you need a bit more than just character leveling and inventory items to be an RPG.
SOTN is vaguely on the level of Diablo in terms of roleplaying, ergo just about fuckall, which doesn't make either game bad, they're both favorites, but RPG is an abused word.

>>11016949
I disagree. First game is really not challenging, and it's almost a bit basic in some aspects of its gameplay, but it's very well constructed on a fundamental level, from game mechanics to map design. Doom 2 is built right on the first game, but it makes the gameplay MUCH more complex and deep by adding a lot of new enemies which do new things, supplementing the old monsters well and requiring new tactics from the player.

Final Doom then takes that gameplay to what was basically the limits of the time. Plutonia is designed with a fundamentally very strong understanding of how Doom 2 functions as a game, making incredibly good use out of how weapons and enemies function, featuring intense action requiring the player to have a good grasp on Doom 2. You can almost describe it as a horizontal Contra, and a large amount of the fan made stuff for classic Doom today is still strongly inspired and informed by Plutonia's gameplay.

Some of that is attributed to larger numbers of monsters, but that's not the whole story. Plutonia barely has more of them than the first game (circa 2900 if you don't count the later bonus episode,) with Plutonia featuring just slightly more than 3000 (with about 300 of them being in the more populated secret levels), compared to Doom 2's almost 3800. Plutonia uses fewer enemies in smarter and meaner ways, and when you have a good grasp of Doom 2, this becomes really fun.
Almost sadistic at times, but levels are mostly not very long so you never lose much progress on death.

>>8773979
It won't hurt. It'll probably be a few more days until it's ready to start, and Plutonia's maps are pretty short so it's not like it takes long.
I'd really like for every contributor to get a Plutonia refresher, not necessarily the entire campaign, but just playing through some of their favorite levels and the ones they feel inspired by, then quietly analyze their gameplay and design, and what elements they feel particularly inspired by.

Plutonia 2 is one of my old favorites, but as said by Dario Casali himself, though it's good, it kind of misses the mark a little because a lot of PL2's levels are pretty big and long winding, when in the original Plutonia only a couple of the levels were actually any big at all, most maps actually being fairly short.
Having not replayed Plutonia for a long while until recently, it really reinforced to me how fast it's paced. Even with my own heavily defensive playstyle and penchant for exploration, the levels go by pretty quick, and I think we should really try to capture that. We can have a few long levels (maybe one long level before every episode boss level), but then most maps are quick, punchy, and about the combat.

I'll make sure to make a rough draft of the 'chart' with the needed info, going over some of the rules, directions, and ideas, to see what you guys think of it.

>>7482532
That's exactly it, now pucker your butthole.

>>4237979
The original Doom and Doom 2 levels are generally not thought to be challenging for the most of it. In fact they're mostly quite easy, even on UV they almost never put the thumbscrews on you in any sense, and even when they do it's never a truly 'demonic' encounter.

Plutonia was conceived of to shut up people who wrote letters and mail to id Software and complained that the game was way too easy, to give those people something to take on.
Similarly, Thy Flesh Consumed was made as an extra episode for the proper commercial release of Doom (which I guess they wanted to tie in to Doom 2 being released commercially), and similarly it had some pretty challenging levels, though it's pretty short, and it's only in original Doom, so it has a smaller bestiary.
Given that TFC probably wasn't quite enough, I'm guessing that id Software just told the Casali brothers to make something to really challenge people, a full 32 set of levels using all of Doom 2's new assets and strengths to test skilled players.

Plutonia is supposed to be a real challenge by design, and if you feel it isn't easy, then it's doing it's job, it's working as intended. Whether you like it or not is another question, some people enjoy this kind of challenge a lot, and it appeals greatly to them, some think Plutonia isn't hard in a fair way and don't like it, some hate it thoroughly.
Some think Plutonia isn't hard enough, thus we have monstrosities like Sunlust.
You could also argue about whether or not Plutonia has good map design, personally, I think it has a lot of good and novel ideas, but that Evilution largely has much more appealing and interesting exploration and atmosphere.

Largely, if you don't like Plutonia, you have these options:
1: Git Gud (use mouse turning, if you already aren't).
2: Lower the difficulty to a level more suitable to you.
3: Try out a gameplay mod that changes things up.
4: Play a different map set with a difficulty level more suitable to your level of skill.

>>3683136
E4M2 is one of the hardest maps iD made for Doom.

Basically, people who got good at the game complained that the game was too easy (and really, Doom isn't very hard on Ultra-Violence), so Nightmare! mode was added.
Thy Flesh Consumed was an episode which was added kind of as a promotional for Doom 2, aiming to give people a challenge.
Later came Final Doom, Plutonia being designed to be especially challenging (compared to the stock games) for those who felt it was too easy still.

I feel that Plutonia is more balanced and fair in it's (still challenging) difficulty, being a bit more thought out than Thy Flesh Consumed, and featuring better level design.
When I get fucked in E4M2, it feels like it's because the level is frustrating, it feels like the level wears you down through attrition and annoyance, when I get fucked in Plutonia, it's usually because I wasn't good enough, or didn't pay attention, it never really feels unfair.

>>3152676
>I'd rather be old and a millennial.
>I'm not bitter about turning 30
Stop denying it. People that constantly bitch about the younger generation are bitter as fuck. Every generation described the generation that followed it as "the worst generation ever", so don't act like there's some special shit chemical deflating your idea of manliness. It makes you sound paranoid, bitter and a bit gay for men with mustaches.

>>3117545
>Not even a single bad map
I love TNT, but there's one or two maps that are rubbish, Metal and Habitat come to mind. The music is always great, and perfectly solidifies the atmosphere of the mapset.

Plutonia is also good, but in another way, the fighting is MUCH more intense, it's unplayable without mouse-turning (or freelook, if you're on a modern port), unless you're some sort of keyboard wizard.
The entire base idea with Plutonia was for people who thought all the original maps were too easy (kind of like Thy Flesh Consumed, but WAY longer, more monsters, and in some ways, actually more fair), challenge was the objective, and that they achieved.

TNT is harder than Doom 2 (also better), and Plutonia is harder than TNT.

>>2331321
How is it that one team can manage a solid port of Quake 1 on the Saturn, yet another team can't manage to port Doom with an acceptable framerate? Lazy, lazy, lazy.

>>2245819
You should consume less Plutonia for your blood pressure's sake.

>>2061394
Plutonia does not play easy.

>>2026303
You'll briefly think you're hot shit before a skeleton runs up to you and punches you in the back of the head.

>>1987018
It was new and fast paced back in it's day, and a lot of people played without mouse back then too.

Now, we're all used to Doom, most of us play with a mouse (be it freelook or just horizontal turning), because it's just nicer and smoother feeling to play with, and we've all played the levels so many times, so we know how that song and dance goes.

It's easy for use now, that's for sure.
The exception is Episode 4, that shit gets pretty damn tight at places, even for experienced players.

Plutonia and TNT also gets hairy in places, particularly Plutonia. Pic related.

>>1951486
There's ways to make it free standing, basically, hide a tiny sector outside of the map, just in the wall somewhere, and then split the sector in two, now, select both the platform and one half of the dummy sector, and join them, as in, they're separate, but the engine regards them as the same sector, there's a function for this in DoomBuilder I think.

Then, you raise the floor height on the other half of the dummy sector to the map height you want the platform to rise, and then you set the switch to "raise to nearest", and when the switch is hit, the platform in the water should raise up to your desired height.

They're both joined, so when you raise or lower the ceiling or floor in the dummy sector, or the platform itself, they'll both raise or lower, likewise, they will share the same light value, floor and ceiling texture, and sector properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0POMpJcP3k8

So i tried plutonia with HD in Fugly mode, i have never been kicked in the ass a lot of times