/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10509379
I see, to be honest one of the main reasons I still like playing Sonic 3 standalone is due to how it's ending is handled, Big Arms is just so perfect for an ending, the OST helps a lot too, it's just epic...

>>10509394
I've never played it this way... sounds interesting! I might try it out eventually, I'm curious about it.

>>10509397
I'm sorry, I should've been more specific, but my point still stands, every major brand, especially a brand people have nostalgia for, has fanboys that piss people off and are a pain to try arguing with.

>>10480795
It's a product of its time, and was excellent for what it was back then, judging it now with our current standards is unfair to it and the people that made it. It's obviously not as good as the titles that came after it, but it was the start of the whole thing, it makes sense for it to be this rough... I find Sonic Adventure to be in a quite similar situation, though that never had sequels that properly polished it all up, so treatment is quite different, also the fact that Zelda is more widely beloved while Sonic is more widely made fun of, still my analogy works, but I digress...

>>10257407
I think it could've been done, developers like Travellers' Tales probably could've released a decent 3D Sonic around 1996, but even early Saturn titles like Bug! show that it could have been done, at least to have a 3D Sonic early, maybe releasing a superior one later in 1996.

>>10257438
>Sega was thinking that Sega Technology Institution was developing it.
I know... but WHY GIVE YOUR BIGGEST IP TO A TEAM THAT CLEARLY COULDN'T PULL IT OFF???

1990's SEGA was a mess.

>>10243749
>Sonic 3D: Flickies' Island
I know this post is probably meant as a joke, but I genuinely adore this title. I know it wasn't Sonic X-Treme, it wasn't the Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot rival that the SEGA Saturn needed, but it's still a good video game on its own, and this is probably the better version of it due to the really stunning sprites and even new effects, also love the OST and the half pipe special stages, to me it managed to make the half pipe actually fun, and that's really something. I know it plays unlike any other Sonic installment... but it's a collectathon, I mean, that was sort of the popular thing at the time, with Super Mario 64, and the emphasis on 100% completion on Crash Bandicoot by getting all of the crates, its appropriate. It has fantastic level design and plays decently. If they had done a proper plan to have this be released from the get go, instead of just porting it from the Genesis in 7 weeks, they could've made it actually 3D, and with this level design? I'm sure it would've been a hit, better than Sonic X-Treme could've been.

We all have that moment, either we read it on a magazine back in the day, a forum or news outlet during the early days of the internet, or even recently, new information's coming out all of the time, a lot of it good, but every once in a while... we learn of a cancelled video game that we just know, or at least feel, we would've loved to play, for some reason people seem to cope a lot with this topic, arguing that it's better that it never came out, it wouldn't have been good, etc... but to me that feels like the fox and grapes story, deep down we really wanted it even if it would've been subpar to us.

>Did you discover any cancellations recently that upset you when you found out about them?
>Do you have any cancellation from back in the day that you read on a magazine/ forum that stuck with you?
>If you could choose a few of those to have actually come out... which ones would it be for you specifically?
>Would these releases have been good to you, or was their cancellation for the better afterall?

I only recently discovered that Spider-Man vs. The Kingpin was going to get a sequel, until SEGA chose to go for X-Men instead, looking back it was a good choice... but damn it, I really wanted that sequel and, judging by how good the original one was, and the soft remake on SEGA-CD in 1993, I have no doubt this would've been just as good. One that stuck out to me from back in the day was always Sonic X-Treme... I really wanted to play it, not only because it could've changed the market a lot, but for some reason it looks fun, even if janky, though it probably wouldn't have been good.

>>10151636
I know that, as an answer to Super Mario 64, this doesn't cut it, and SEGA messed up so many things during the Saturn era... but Sonic 3D Blast's still a fun time, and since it essentially goes out of its way to function as a Collect-A-Thon, it ends up feeling like a response to Super Mario 64 even if that wasn't the original intention, but the formula works for Sonic more than I could've ever thought it would. I'll admit that control is subpar unless you're playing on a good controller with the option of using a good analog stick, but looks and sound are stellar as always, the Flicky collecting, while trying to find Tails and Knuckles to get the Chaos Emeralds, it's a fun Collect-A-Thon because level design was genuinely excellent and that made it fun to explore while looking for all of these things. I really wish I could give the Saturn version a go, I know it's mostly just a graphical update, besides the special stages now being the half pipe from Sonic 2, but good this time, however they're nice graphical updates, and the new OST is sweet too, but Saturn is a pain to emulate... anyways, I definitely recommend Jon Burton's Director's Cut, it's phenomenal.

>>9078450
>>9078461
I'd say SEGA's main mistakes were:
1. Not having Sonic Team work on the next main line Sonic game which would be his transition into 3D and a crucial system seller for the Saturn in 1996's holiday season.
2. Choosing STI for it even though they had little to no experience whatsoever with developing in 3D and didn't even have a Saturn development kit when they got chosen.
3. STI choosing to use the development kit for the boss engine instead of using it for the main levels, doing the latter without it and then porting it over to the Saturn further.
All of these mistakes are baffling and just kept adding up on top of one another, which lead to a disastrous development, and to the Saturn's failure in the west as a whole.

>>9056850
I don't think sales mean much regarding its reception and quality for this discussion, afterall by then Sonic really wasn't as popular as before thanks to not having any major releases during all of the Saturn's run, he lost his momentum in a way, SEGA in general did, they had lost popularity and recognition, even credibility for some. Sonic Adventure was at first a Dreamcast exclusive, and while that was a good console, it didn't even have 1/3 of the Genesis's sales... after that it was ported as Sonic Adventure DX, a Game Cube exclusive, and the Game Cube also lost its generation hard in sales thanks to Sony simply dominating with the PS2, there's also the fact that while on a SEGA console pretty much everyone will want Sonic, that's not the same on a Nintendo console... perhaps sales would've been much higher if Sonic Adventure DX was released on the XBOX and especially the PS2, I have no doubt about that.

>>9053825
What's this? A screenshot from when Sonic Adventure was being developed for the Saturn? Well, I don't know if it really is a bad thing that they changed it to the Dreamcast, because by that point there was no real hope for the Saturn going up against the PlayStation anymore, even with Sonic, only thing I dislike is how the change to the Dreamcast brought the new designs, I don't mind them, but I feel most of the characters looked better before, not all of them, but most. Overall I don't even think Sonic X-Treme could've saved the Saturn, but it's still a shame to see how that project went, it could've been a rough gem, and it was one of the many things that went wrong thanks to SoJ and SoA not working things out properly, the entire Saturn generation and its failure in the US was due to that aswell, I wish they had managed things properly, taken advantage of their IPs, made sure that everything they did right with the Dreamcast was actually done with the Saturn before, SEGA could still be around making consoles, and that would be the best time line by far, I miss them.

>>9041629
While Sonic Team did produce quality before, and all of the Sonic classics were developed mainly by Japanese teams, I don't think this means it should always be this way, it could stay as it is, but if it changed I don't think it would be a bad thing, it depends on who SEGA chooses to do so, if they choose someone who's competent, but not Japanese, we should embrace it.

>>9041712
Indeed, it's something you do get used to with time, I do admit the control isn't ideal and platforming can be tough, but thankfully the Director's Cut by Jon Burton fixes a lot of the control issues, it's still not ideal, but it works well and it's much better than the original. I agree that it feels like a precursos to 64 Rare, it's probably the only real Sonic Collect-A-Thon ever, and it does work, especially since exploring is indeed fun due to the stellar level design. I wish SEGA would experiment with a Sonic Collect-A-Thon more in the future, maybe in spin offs.

>>9010728
>Are the Sonic games for the Master System and Game Gear any good?
Yes, some of them can be quite good, not all though. I'd stick to Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic Chaos and Sonic Triple Trouble, for the classic platformers at least. If you want something different, Tails Adventures is a lovely MetroidVania.

>Are they just watered down versions of the Genesis games, or do they have something unique that sets them apart as their own thing?
No, they're not watered down versions of the Genesis games, even the ones which are ports actually go in their own direction regarding level design and feel unique because of it, they don't feel watered down, just different and more traditional in a way.

>>8548780
Even with Sonic I don't think that the outcome of things would've turned out much differently, afterall Sega was still a mess, with how they handled the Saturn and their own internal problems between SoA and SoJ, the Saturn would've lost in sales to both the PS1 and N64, with Sonic perhaps boosting both hardware and software sales a bit to give them more revenue, but not enough to save it, then Microsoft would jump in the following generation, with the PS2 getting pretty much all sales, and Sega would've stopped making consoles eventually.

I feel that the only timeline in which Sega would've continued as a major player in the console market after the Dreamcast is if the Saturn was handled completely different, more similar to the Dreamcast, and if SoA and SoJ got it together, also SoA should've had more faith in the Japanese titles that were never localized, the Japanese Saturn has a much wider library which could've helped the Saturn on the west, and, of course, in this case Sonic would've definitely helped, he couldn't save the Saturn and Sega by himself, but he could've helped lots in this case.

>>8466006
I love the original Mega Drive/Genesis release more than anything, mostly due to nostalgia, I'll admit, it's the one I grew up playing, if I just happened to own the sequel instead I have no doubt it'd be my favorite, so it's mostly bias. When I try to remove all of my bias, I believe Sonic 3K is the superior experience in the whole series, but Sonic 2 is the one I like the most, and it'd be my favorite if I didn't grow up with the original. I also have a huge soft spot for the Master System/Game Gear releases, especially the original, most specifically the Game Gear version because I love Sonic's sprite there for some reason. I also love Sonic 3D Blast because it feels like the only collectathon in the series, which is a concept I think can work, and I like playing it.

8-Bit:
Green Hill > Bridge > Jungle > Sky Base > Scrap Brain > Labyrinth
16-Bit:
Green Hill > Star Light > Marble = Spring Yard > Scrap Brain = Labyrinth

I love all Zones in both versions though.

>>7739932
Sonic 3D Blast isn't a very good game, however it is indeed underrated, especially once you consider that the consensus for it seems to be that it's downright bad, which is a bit harsh, the game is perfectly average, nothing less and nothing more.

It's fair to point out that the highs in this game are all very high, in every version of the game both the OST and the graphics are superb, the look of it all is especially impressive in the Sega Genesis version, considering what they were able to do with limited hardware.

However there are lows and, differently from the highs, they're mostly related to gameplay instead of cosmetics. The Special Stages are only special in name, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them, but they're really lacking, the exception to that being the Sega Saturn version. Also, for a platforming icon such as Sonic, he doesn't do much of that here, which is odd, but also a good thing because the controls are awkward for that, in the few instances where it comes up it's quite troublesome, the collision detection doesn't help.

The last main criticism is that it doesn't feel like a Sonic game, you don't go very fast to the end of the level, instead you have to find the Flickies, this to me is the most questionable flaw though, afterall, just because it doesn't feel like the other games it doesn't mean that it's objectively bad.

This is probably the closest Sonic ever got to having a Collectathon game, and as one it does it's job well, finding the Flickies, finding Tails and Knuckles to go to the Special Stages and getting the Chaos Emeralds to reach the Final Boss, which is an awesome fight by the way, it can all be some legit good fun.

It's about the mentality really, if you go into this game expecting a standard Sega Genesis Sonic game, or a 3D Sonic game like the Adventure series, you'll be dissapointed, but if you go in expecting an Isometric Collectathon, which is what this is, you might have a pretty good time.

>>7710101
For all of the Saturn fans out there, what would you say is the main reason for the system failing in sales? And if you could go back in time and change something about how SEGA handled the Saturn, what would it be?

The original art for Sonic X-Treme cover, everything leads me to believe that the final version would've been a 3D render, and this was just used as a concept, but i find this much better.