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/vr/ - Retro Games

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>> No.9145232 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
9145232

>>9144814
1. Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon (aka AJPW: King's Soul)
2. Silent Hill
3. Driver 2

>> No.6233543 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6233543

>>6232538
It depends on you preference. I you like you games more arcady and less sim-based just get the usual route of Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 and its western adaptions like No Mercy. While games like Warzone and WWE Attitude (and the ECW games with the same broken Attitude engine) are crap, somehow Sega (or better off the actual dev Scarab) managed to make some good games using a similar control scheme (button combo based) with Zen Nihon Puroresu featuring Virtua (Saturn), Giant Gram 2 and Giant Gram 2000 (Dreamcast).

If your standards are even lower go the obvious WWF Smackdown/SD vs. RAW etc. (so the devs Yuke's) route. I personally got tired of these games and abandoned especially the Yuke's games completely during 6th gen and never looked back.

But since this isn't considered /vr/ territory (yet), it makes things easier deciding which game is the best, since the best games happened indeed during the 5th gen. My personal best game until Gen 5 is AJPW: King's Soul (Zen-Nihon Puroresu: Ouja no Kon) which does the same timing based and sim-based gameplay as Fire Pro Wrestling but using 3D graphics. IMO it's best looking PS1 Wrestling game also with the most complex gameplay and most animations per wrestler. But again then there are the Fire Pro Wrestling games which also always were on top of the curve even compared to graphically better looking games.
Zen Nihon Joshi Puroresu: Joou Densetsu: Yume no Taikousen (AJPW Womens: Legend of Queens) also for the PS1 is also worth checking out just for the excellent animations for a game of that generation.

But again AJPW: King's Soul is the king of the genre up until the 5th generation only to be outshined by some games of the next generation. Too bad the genre was dead with the arrival of the 7th gen (again with the exception of Fire Pro Wrestling).

>> No.5980878 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5980878

>>5980330
It's funny that you used Smackdown as an example. Because originally the early Yuke's games indeed used a very different system. NJPW: Toukon Retsuden 1 - 4 had buttons assigned to specific sets of moves that also functioned somehow like a rock/paper/scissor countering system. One button (+ direction) was for Kicks/Punches, one to initiate Submission moves and another one for power moves
>Punch counters Power Moves
>Power Moves counter Submission Holds
>Submission Holds counter Punches
So no grappling was necessary

Later they used the Toukon Retsuden engine for budget titles (Simple 1500 Series Vol. 22: The Pro Wrestling and Simple 1500 Series Vol. 52: The Pro Wrestling 2) and ditched the Rock/Paper/Scissor system for the grappling system. And again later they used that gameplaywise already castrated engine and turned it into Smackdown with an even more toned down controlling scheme but pimped graphics.

Since then Yuke's games always had such grappling systems. Either like Day of Reckoning or Wrestle Kingdom (that was using the same engine) with a quick and strong grapple or that usual crap of the WWE games.

I personally prefer such grappling systems only when they're down right. IMO the best wrestling game up until the 5th generation was AJPW King's Soul (PS1) which didn't have just one (like Smackdown) or two different grapples like later the DoR games but rather 6 per wrestler (+ 6 back grapples).
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/575248-zen-nippon-pro-wrestling-ouja-no-tamashii/faqs/6432
And from each of these 6 Grapples you could do 9 moves at max. so max. 54 front grappling moves per wrestler (not even counting the back grapple moves or simple strikes/kicks) which resulted in rather long move lists. But not all wresters used all slots of course. And the mentioned collar-elbow tie-up was only the weakest default grapple. All the others were specific ones like a brainbuster set-up grapple or a power bomb, DDT, Chokeslam one etc. with different moves

>> No.5843106 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5843106

>>5842436
Depends on the genre or the game. I had a different experience some years ago, when I was getting bored with western wrestling games (no wonder the genre is dead right now) and pretty much abandoned all recent games of that genre and started importing all the great japanese games of that generation (the it was the 6th generation) and the one that came before. And what can I say? The old games are just so much better then even the most recent ones. Yeah, the graphics might be not that spectacular, but the gameplay is just so much more complex. Partially even the animations of such games from the 5th generation (and the 6th one as well) are better then the most recent games.

>> No.5835059 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5835059

>>5834870
That's easy, since the PS1 had the best wrestling games (if you ignore the barrage of shitty western wrestling games that is)
Best game of that era is AJPW: King's soul
IMO second best Fire Pro Wrestling G
Back than even Yuke's made adequate games especially with Toukon Retsuden 3
But I also liked the AJPW Women game Zen Nihon Joshi Puroresu: Joou Densetsu: Yume no Taikousen quite a bit.
Some also say the Puroresu Sengokuden games were pretty good too, but those are some of the few games I haven't played yet. And nothing comes close to the aforementioned AJPW: King's soul.
Stuff like WWE Warzone, Attitude, the ECW games using the same engine and the Smackdown games which used a gameplaywise castrated but in terms of graphics pimped Toukon Retsuden Engine were trash, let alone crap like WWF WrestleMania: The Arcade Game or even In Your house or the other WCW games

Saturn:
Does anything even come close to the brilliance of Fire Pro Wrestling 6 Men Scramble? Not even the other Fire Pro Game on the System Fire Pro Gaiden: Blazing Tornado (an Arcade port).
But Zen Nihon Puroresu featuring Virtua (the predecessor of the Giant Gram Games for the DC) is also supposed to be a good game.

Dreamcast was fine too with good games like:
Fire Pro Wrestling D
Giant Gram 2 and Giant Gram 2000
Toukon Retsuden 4 (Yuke's also started to fall apart qualitywise)
Too bad not a single good western wrestling game came out for it, beside ports of the worst of the worst WWE and ECW PS1 games.

N64:
I don't know. Never had one. Some people say No Mercy is good, but after all it's just a conversion of Virtual Pro Wrestling 2. Also people compared it's fighting systems with that of the later Yuke's game like Day of Reckoning or Wrestling Kingdom 1 and 2 which used the same engine as DoR - I fucking hated that system and never touched a Yuke's game since.
There also were the Toukon Road games on it, but again, these were just Yuke's games after all and who good can these actually be?

>> No.5811749 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5811749

>>5808562
The PS1 had some really fantastic Wrestling games, too bad that the good ones you had to import, since most western games were garbage (WWE Warzone, Attitude, the ECW games using the same engine, those fucking horrible WWF Arcade games etc.) or based on castrated japanese games (Like the First Smackdown games that were based on a heavily castrated Toukon Retsuden, or Power Move Pro Wrestling that also was based on the first Toukon Retsuden but robbed by it's NJPW license).

My favorite by far is Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon (aka AJPW King's Soul), IMO this is also the best wrestling game of that console generation.
And also Fire Pro Wrestling G of course.
Zen Nihon Joshi Puroresu: Joou Densetsu: Yume no Taikousen (aka Legend of Queens) was also a fine game with some really good animations (but I didn't like the fighting system that much)
The Shin Nihon Pro-Wrestling: Toukon Retsuden games also were pretty groundbreaking for the time (wasn't the first one even the first 3D-Wrestling game?), too bad how much the developer Yuke's sucks now judging them by the horrible WWE2k games.
Champion Wrestler: Jikkyou Live looks good, but Fire Pro Wrestling is by far the better 2D-Wrestling game.

The three Puroresu Sengokuden games on the PS1 are also said to be some fine games, but I haven't played these yet.

The Dreamcast had it even worse, since there wasn't a single good wrestling game released in the west, but again in Japan that genre really boomed back than with Games like Fire Pro Wrestling D, Toukon Retsuden 4, Giant Gram 2 and Giant Gram 2000.

>> No.5460403 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5460403

>> No.5458486 [View]
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5458486

The sadly final game by Human Entertainment, also was the best wrestling game not just on the system but of the whole era. From the graphics to the many many animation and the well-thought-out and complex gameplay (timing based just like Fire Pro Wrestling from the same devs). It also has the best roster with lots of true legend either as in-game characters or templates.

I also liked the spiritual successor King of Colosseum (which used the same game engine on PS2), which despite looking rather dated even when released (again it uses the PS1 engine and look and play very similar), IMO again was the best wrestling game of the next era after the PS1.

Too bad, despite Fire Pro Wrestling Word, the genre is dead now... killed by Yuke's and the shitty WWE games.

>> No.5095094 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul (PS1).webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5095094

>> No.5092396 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5092396

Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon / 全日本プロレス 王者の魂 aka AJPW: King's Soul

IMO the best wrestling game not only on the PS1 but up to it's released date also on all platforms. Not only in terms of graphics and animations, but it's also a very good sim. But sadly this also was the last game made by Human Entertainment before they went under.

Yeah, Fire Pro Wrestling (or Fire Pro Wrestling G on the PS1) by the same developers was/is more popular, but I prefer King's Soul over it any time, since it had much more depth (and the PS2 games with the same engine as King's Soul - King of Colosseum Red/Green and King of Colosseum II also were the best wrestling titles on the system).

Just look at what garbage wrestling titles were released on the PS1 by other devs. Most of the commercial more successful wrestling games were crap and partially didn't even qualify as Wrestling games, since they merely were beat'em up's with wrestling characters. Somehow western developers don't know how to make good wrestling games. To bad the genre is dead now and only those rubbish games with WWE license get released nowadays.

>> No.4907008 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4907008

>>4902752
Wrestling:
AJPW King's Soul (aka Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon) by far the best wrestling game on the system.
Fire Pro Wrestling G
Pretty much all the western wrestling games were shit, only a couple of japanese ones are decent, so if you like wrestling game you needed a modded console.

Also:
Driver 2
I prefer Driver 2 and played it for many hours and spend more time with the replay editor than with the actual game itself.

Silent Hill
Resident Evil 2

>> No.4699616 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4699616

>>4697440
I was pretty late to the party with the Fire Pro Wrestling games or japanese wrestling games altogether.

But I got bored with the formulaic western Beat'em ups that called themselves "Wrestling Games" and thus got into japanese wrestling after I decided to stop playing western wrestling games after the abysmal Smackdown vs. RAW (on PS2).

So over time I bought all the classics for the Dreamcast, PS1 and PS2 (I never owned a N64, so no AKI games for me). And I really liked most of the games, even the ones by Yuke's, the black sheep of the genre (NJPW: Toukon Retsuden Series).

I really loved playing games like Giant Gram 2 and Giant Gram 2000, Toukon Retsuden 4 and of course Fire Pro Wrestling D on the Dreamcast.

I also enjoyed Fire Pro Wrestling G on the PS1 and by far the best PS1 wrestling game (and last game by Human Entertainment) AJPW: King's Soul, but also stuff like the womens wrestling of "Zen Nihon Joshi Pro Wres: Joou Densetsu: Yume no Taikousen".

>> No.4583460 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4583460

Most jap. wrestling games were way better than the crap released here.

Even the Smackdown games that were only slightly better than War Zone or Attitude were just graphically beefed up versions of the Toukon Retsuden engine. Some rumors even suspect that the first WWF Smackdown was based on Yuke's budget release of their engine (Simple 1500: The Pro Wrestling). And they casualized the gameplay even further with Smackdown.

Beside the often mediocre Yuke's titles (Toukon Retsuden 3 maybe was their best one on the system) the best Wrestling games on the PS1 were done by Human Entertainment with especially AJPW King's Soul (Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon). The game had gameplay much deeper than it needed to be. They even simplified the inofficial sequels King of Colosseum and KoC 2 on the PS2 just a bit, which used the same engine than as PS1 game.

Oh yeah, Fire Pro Wrestling G from Human was also a great wrestling sim

And don't let me start on the games from Dream Japan, Inc

>> No.4475090 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4475090

>>4473778
It's hard to pick one. There are so many good (japanese) ones. I never owned a N64, so WWF No Mercy (and as well Virtual Pro-Wrestling 2: Oudou Keishou) is out of the picture.

SNES: Fire Pro Wrestling X Premium
PS1: Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon (aka AJPW: King's Soul) - by far the best wrestling game on the system hands down
Dreamcast: Fire Pro Wrestling D
PS2: King of Colosseum II, Fire Pro Wrestling Returns & All Star Pro Wrestling III

Too bad that the genre died after the PS2 era. But on the PS2 it went out with a bang with
King of Colosseum II, maybe the wrestling game which I like the most.

>> No.4296953 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4296953

>> No.4263002 [View]
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4263002

>>4261521
GOAT? Just those few AKI games and Yuke's "NJPW Toukon Honoo Dou" games? ("Shin Nihon Pro-Wrestling: Toukon Honoo Dou BRAVE SPIRITS", "Shin Nihon Pro-Wrestling: Toukon Honoo Dou 2 - The Next Generation")?

While the Saturn indeed only had some lame western wrestling game ports, the japanese market looked much better with "Fire Prowrestling S: 6 Men Scramble", the mediocre "Fire Pro Gaiden: Blazing Tornado" and "Zen Nihon ProWres featuring Virtua" that spawned the awesome Giant Gram Sequels on the Dreamcast.

But the PS1 was the king of wrestling games. Yeah, most knew and loved the Smackdown Series but IMHO that's was the point when Yuke's started to suck big time.

Because:
>>4261663
>>4261772

Indeed Japan got the better wrestling titles for the PS1 like:
Fire Pro Wrestling G
Toukon Retsuden 1 - 3 (especially #3, because with 4 on the Dreamcast once again Yuke's failed)
Zen Nihon Joshi Puroresu: Joou Densetsu: Yume no Taikousen (AJPW Womens)
The "Puroresu Sengokuden" Series

... and IMO the best Wrestling Game of the fifth console generation by far:
Zen-Nihon Pro Wrestling: Ouja no Kon (from the Developers of the Fire Pro Wrestling Series)

When comparing the western games to the japanese ones it always comes down to arcade-gameplay (or wrestling beat'em ups) vs. simulation.

>> No.4242338 [View]
File: 2.99 MB, 416x308, AJPW King's Soul.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4242338

>>4239114
I never played the N64 wrestling titles, since my first Nintendo console was a game cube. People say good things especially about the AKI games. But on the cube I played Day of Reckoning, that some compare to the AKI games somehow... but DoR I didn't like that much. Best 6th generation wrestling title would be King of Colossum II for me... but since this isn't considered retro...

IMO the best wrestling game of the 5th console era wasn't one of the AKI games, but rather (as always one of the Human Entertainment games) AJPW: King's soul.

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