/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4849967
The only good thing about them is the bossfights really.

For 7 the translation to NES scale doesn't work at all, there is too much space everywhere and everything is empty.

For 8, they simply got rid of a LOT of things including entire stage segments.

>>4849887
>since the devs forgot to clear the charge counter when you hit an enemy that way, you even get a free (no energy consumption) shot afterwards.

Or rather it's the contrary, it's when the pharoh shot is above your head and that you hit an enemy with it that it counts as free.

>>4848463
>>4848434

Well I just didn't think it was the matter at all. Personally I like to use the buster as much as possible but the MM4 weapons have plenty of situational use that makes them better than the charge shot.

>rain flush
Clears the screen, notably useful against enemies during jumping segments or as a life saver. It hits everything and all at once, so compare that to the charge shot which is slow and only hits in front of you...

>Flash Stopper
Again, useful in jumping segments, more so than Rain Flush since it lasts longer, or if you wanna rush in an area which otherwise would require you to stop due to enemy patterns

>Pharaoh Shot
Do I even need to say it? It's like the charge shot but better since you can fire in diagonal directions. You can also use it when it's on top of your head as a protection against enemies coming above you; and since the devs forgot to clear the charge counter when you hit an enemy that way, you even get a free (no energy consumption) shot afterwards.

>Ring Boomerang
Can hit shielded enemies. For instance those flying shields in Skull Man stage, which come facing you, the ring boomerang is one of the only ways to kill them without taking dmg.

>Dust Crusher
Sucks

>Skull Barrier
Yeah that one sucks too, I can't think of anything except repeating the "useful in jumping segments with enemies" line a third time.

>Dive Missile
Homes on enemies, good for enemies above or under you that the charge shot can't reach.
IIRC it's also one of the only 2 weapons which can kill Garyoby enemies.

>Drill Bomb
Remote detonation, really good once you get the hang of it as a single remote detonation can hit enemies twice.

>>4848230
>What's the point of beating robot masters and gaining new weapons if the weapon you initially have already gives you an advantage?

Why do people keep seeing this about 4 when it's not true? It may be true for 5 and 6, but not in 4, the charge shot is the best balanced in 4 than in any other MM game.

In 4 the invicibility frame time of bosses is shorter (compared to 5 and 6) so using the weakness over having to charge a shot makes a substantial difference.

Besides the charge shot is not the best option against some bosses, take Dive Man for instance, if you insist on doing charge shots only, his torpedos will catch up to you pretty fast, it's better to use the regular buster.

Finally, some weaknesses deal more than 3 dmg.


>>4848258
Thanks, but I had luck on my side as well. Magma Man and Tornado Man gave me easy patterns (they can pull more difficult ones), and then Eddie gave a shitload of weapon energy right when I needed it especially after wasting so much on Jewel Man...

>>4846674
The jumping is from Getsu Fuuma Den, like everything else.

After a while you get a power up that makes you do roll jumps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VuU2rvPmGI&t=6154s

>>4847851
They're all worth playing except II imo, but V is indeed the best.

God I wish it was in colour.... Hopefully Mastermix will continue to the end so we'll get see the Stardroids in colours at least in that.


>>4844176
>>4843632
>>4843810
I fucking did it.... after 10 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_xj3Fk8fU

>>4847756
>it's Murata, he draws for a living.

So does Ariga.

There are also quite a few classic MM mangas that were only released in Japan, by other artists

But I think Ariga is the best. In that giant calender/poster by Murata MM looks thin and gay.

Fuck Darkman. The only they're any good is in the Ariga manga because they're pictured as dumb and it's rather comical.

I remember the first time I played, meeting Darkman4 I was very excited to get to fight Protoman.

How disappointed I was.

So, I made a romhack. Protoman vs Darkman4, both shooting buster shots, both being able to use their shields, and with Darkman4's moves inspired by Protoman's moves in MM3

>>4845919
What about Ariga then?

>>4846190
IIRC the game is pretty well optimized for PAL actually, but yeah timing of some things are probably different

>>4846002
>>4846136
>>4846167
Actually there is a difference. You start with 8 lives in the PAL version while it was originally 4; and then after the initial 10k score you earn a 1up every 25k in the PAL version vs 20k on Famicom.

Does anyone know the trick/timing so that Magma Man gets hit twice by a single Tornado shot ?
Afaik it happens 1 time out of 100 and it might even be a glitch...

>>4845081
Yeah I love all the secret little things in MM7, it has an impressive ammount of polish for what is said to be the classic MM with the shortest dev time.... although I have a hard time to believe that "3 months" quote.

>freezing the cloud platforms in Cloud Man stage gets rid of the cloud
>encassing the otherwise undestructible platfor mines using Burst Bubble

>>4845779
It feels different. Animation are more complicated and it just doesn't feel the same, it's not as fast and responsive... personally I don't have a problem with it but apparently that's a major complain for a lot of people.
There is also the focus on non platforming gimmicks like the snowboard... though MM5 started that trend with the jetski segment.

I love MM8, and especially the Japanese Saturn version, which is the only one with small different enemy placement, mostly having more enemies in some areas.

>>4844768
>>4845008
The worst offender is Bass's sprite in MM10. I guess they didn't have a choice because the original design is complicated and they had to make him look recognizable, but if Bass was made on NES he would never have looked like the MM10 Bass. Consider the following:

>Mega Man requires 7-8 8*8 sprites per frame
>Protoman requires 9-11 8*8 sprites per frame
>Bass requires 12-15 8*8 sprites per frame

>you have to fit every frame in the limited sprite pattern table

There is just not enough space for Bass. Consider the following: there isn't even enough space for Protoman either in most games.

The only NES MM game, as it is, which can have Protoman and Bass, as they are in 9-10, is MM5, only because MM5 is the only one using a system that has the possibility to load new sprites in the pattern table each time a new frame is displayed; but even then they didn't use it like this, they used it so they had a system with less hassle for the level designers to load various enemies in a level.

MM6 also loads new sprites in the pattern table but NOT on the fly, only during a loading screen when changing armor adaptor.

Of course any really good romhacker these days would find a way to load new sprites in the pattern table when needed, but it's just not what they did back then...

...and there is also the 2nd reason why Bass would have never used that many sprites: the per scanline sprite limit which with him would have led to even more sprite flickering.

There isn't a lot that MM9-10 do that the original games couldn't or wouldn't have done, some extra detailing in cutscenes, other very minor things like the Mega Mech Shark coming down over the floor (which wouldn't have been possible because both things would have been background graphics), but Bass is one of them.

>>4844176
and I also suck at math

>>4844105
1) 9
2) 4
3) tie between 7,10,MM&B
5) tie between 2,3
7) tie between 6,8
9) 1
10) 5

Yeah, I suck at this. I just like them all.

>>4843810
>MFW when I tried again and I only got hit once during the entire fortress
>Magma Man's jump during the bossrush

I'm having fun

>>4843818
Because the loading times between camera angles on PS1 are a goddamn nightmare. You should feel the smoothness of some of the other versions.

>MFW after 10 years I still haven't completed Mr. Perfect in MM9 because I always end up getting in the bossrush or against Wily

should I give it another try..

>>4842487
>Biggest flaw: having to constantly switch between rush adaptors kills the flow in the later stages

You're going to want to play with these patches, you can switch adatpors quicker, skip the anim etc:

For Rockman 6 rom (does not work with MM6):
Lag reduction patch but also speeds up the process of many things, like loading times, scrolling when entering a room, etc:
http://www.geocities.jp/borokobo/zip/Rock6Optimization101.zip
Fixed sliding. In the original MM6, and unlike other MM games, you couldn't jump during a slide, plus there is a small delay, wait time, at the end of a slide. This fixes both:
http://www.geocities.jp/borokobo/zip/Rock6FixSlide2.zip
With both patches applied, RM6 becomes 100% more fun.

For other games:

For MM3, there is "Improvement" which gets rid of all lag, fixes a lot of glitches, and also has some other additions/changes which you may or may not like
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/992/

For Rockman 4 (doesn't work with MM4), lag reduction patch, there are two patches, one "standard" lag reduction, and another one which also changes other things like being able to switch weapons on the fly (but also gets rid of the autoscroll sections...)
http://www.geocities.jp/borokobo/zip/Rock4Optimization_v3.zip

For Rockman 5, but these ones also works with MM5. Lag reduction patch:
http://www.himaq5.xyz/rock5easily/archive/rock5_lite.zip
Lets you switch weapons on the fly (select, down+select, select+start):
http://www.himaq5.xyz/rock5easily/archive/rock5_weaponselect.zip

Mega Man X3: fully playable Zero, but also makes the game better if you play as X, by getting rid of the delay when firing several charge shots, and by making level progression less linear (you can use a battle armor as soon as you have the tanks for it, and Zero can charge subweapons even without the upgrade, thus letting you open up levels in a less linear way):
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/888/

>>4842373
>What is it about the RE formula that feels so perfect that others couldn't replicate? The aesthetic, the atmosphere, the gameplay, the rhythm?

Most RE clones have broken gameplay one way or another, be it shit hit detection or something else.

If you wanna have fun your best bet are action games that use tank controls like Soul of the Samurai, Dino Crisis 2, Vampire Hunter D, Parasite Eve 2

Adventure of Lolo series
Fire'n'Ice
Kickle Cubicle
Solstice
Moai Kun
Famicom Wars

>>4842487
4 is my favourite of the original 6, but it's true some bosses are weak.

Another thing I realized about 4 is that it lacks projectile based enemies, there are way too few.
Most enemies deal dmg by ramming into MM, and too few are based on shooting at you; and even out of the shooting ones, most of those are barely a threat.

After making a Protoman romhack for MM5 I thought of doing the same for 4, but quickly realized there would barely be 1-2 potential use for the shield per stage; and that's the 'potential' ones, meaning in reality you'd use the shield even less...

>>4843339
In case this wasn't clear, what I meant was that 9 was "speedrun and skill friendly" using the regular buster.
Anyone can rush through Plug Man stage using the Jewel Satellite, but if you learn it you can rush through pretty much just as fast using the buster.

About the insta deaths, I never understood why people complained about them. I feel like 9 has the right ammount and they're part of what makes the game feel awesome. There is something about running through traps and pits with the perfect timing and perfect jumps and coming out un-scathed.

And those traps too are speedrun friendly. Pic related is the best example, as anyone would stop and wait to make both jumps, except that if you rush through as you come in the room and never stop you can make it through just in time for both jumps.

>>4842487
I agree about 9 being the best.

What I think makes it the best is its rythm, its flow.

Once you know the game, there is the perfect balance between being able to rush through, but with skill, and moments when you have to stop to kill a bigger enemy.
What I mean by "rushing through with skill" is moments like that:
>rooms with traps or threatening enemies
>you can actually rush through if you simply jump at the right time and never fails
Think the start of Magma Man stage for example
also:
>there is a mandatory jump and a bit later, once you land an enemy spawns
>you can kill the enemy as it spawns if you shoot at the right moment during the jump

None of this was by chance. The game is speedrunning friendly in a skill based way, and that's part of what makes it so good, on top of having the best flow, the best balance between platforming, shooting, traps, etc

Compare this to MM5 where the game is pretty much just straight lines and anyone just starting can rush through with little thought by spamming the OP charge shot the game has.

imo MM10 isn't as good exactly because the flow isn't as good. People complained about the insta deaths in 9, so they toned down those in 10, and to compensate they made more challenge based on enemies.
As a consequence the game is much slower paced. You have to stop all the time, even when you know the game, which makes the game feel more like a drag.
Sure it has some moments of clarity, like the last scroll of Commando Man with the sandstorm pushing you: if you jump at the right times to avoid the enemies and pits you can ride the storm till the end of the scroll ; but those moments of clarity are too few.

>>4842329
Well, either you played an obscure port, or you played a copy cat.