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9811198 No.9811198 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

I play Battlefleet Gothic, and today, I will share just one reason why I love this game.

Space marines suck.

Well that's not entirely true. They can WIN a game, but they have about as much forgiveness as your average Tau 40k army. If you screw up, even once, you lose.

Why does GW's hump-buddy-cash-cow suck so hard here?

Because at this scale, they are insignificant. Their strike cruisers and battle barges are not designed for fleet battle, and every single other fleet in the game is capable of breaking them in half.

My Imperial navy, crewed by normal humans, is currently undefeated against them, My tau fleet consistently breaks their ships in half with torpedo and bomber waves. My Eldar can fly circles around them and my chaos are untouchable at long range. Every time i watch a tyranid cruiser crush them like a tin can under their claws, I feel that an angel has gained wings.

At this scale, your precious space puppies are no better then any other chapter. You get access to nothing special, and compared to any other major force you are the very height of small-time.

Space marine fleets are usually comprised of one or two barges, and anywhere between six and ten strike cruisers. This is compared to the thousands of Tau vessels, and the tens-of-thousands of Imperial Navy. Any one force in the game can exterminate an entire chapter if they had the chance.

Play BFG, where your battles actually matter.

>> No.9811213
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9811213

OP is just mad because he loses the battles where it matters.

>> No.9811233
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9811233

Someone's bitter.

>> No.9811235
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9811235

>>9811213


Sorry.. can't hear you over how space marines have never one a single major bfg tournament...ever..

>> No.9811251
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9811251

>>9811233
Sorry.. Can't hear you over this years winning fleet.. Please observe the space marines about to be OM NOM NOM NOM NOM

>> No.9811255

ahhh BFG, where tau don't suck and SPESSS MEHREEEEENS do, the irony of role reversal is almost palpable

>> No.9811264

YAAAAY a space marine battle barge! we're all saved now.... -_-

>> No.9811267
File: 35 KB, 720x339, gothicomp116.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9811267

>>9811255
Hey look! it's the 2009,08, and 07 winners of the Adepticon BFG tournament!

>> No.9811282

>>9811264
Battlebarge=The greatest waste of 425 points in the game, unless you enjoy watching it get blown out of the water.

in 9 out of the last 10 games played, the battle barge was either destroyed or forced to disengage. Many of those times, it was forced to do so before it even managed to damage an enemy vessel.

>> No.9811301

So... you're happy because they haven't figured out a way to stick their fanwank into BFG and haven't made the MARHEENS stupidly powerful?

Good, but don't talk about it too much or you'll give Ward ideas...

>> No.9811329

How does one go about playing BFG outside of the real lifes? Is there a vassal module for it?

>> No.9811330
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9811330

>>9811301
10/10 for observation.

However, there are a few fanwankers who are trying to get bullshit rules made official in the 2010 FAQ.. It would be sad if it weren't so rage-educing.

The odds of Ward even blinking at a specialist games are half that of a snowballs chance in hell.

>> No.9811333

>>9811329
yes there is.

>> No.9811353

>>9811235
They have BFG tournaments?

Well shit in my mouth and call me your sister...

>> No.9811381
File: 1.10 MB, 1600x1000, 1259642450794.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9811381

>>9811353
if you insist...

>> No.9811389

so what's bfg actually like to play?

I've never seen it in action. Only gw game i haven't.

Always struck me as man o' war in space. But without the suck.

Gotta love a game where mahreeeeens get nerfed. And it's fluff appropriate

>> No.9811411

>OP is just mad because he loses the battles where it matters.

Yes, space battles. Ground battles are 100% irrelevant.

>> No.9811416

>>9811389
its pretty good, planning your movement is very important because everything has a minimum speed and limited turning arcs, only 45 degrees for a cruiser sized ship.

Balance is good, and the lists fit the fluff well. Nid fleets normally outnumber their opponent, eldar are very much glass cannon ships, as mentioned before space marines are low teir. and the necron fleet is over powered to match their fluff. This is offset by a victory point bonus against killing them. So even if it takes most of yuor fleet to kill 2-3 of the necrons ships thats enough to maybe win based on VPs.

>> No.9811439

>>9811389
also its really cheap, go with orks and nids and yuo can scratch build an entire fleet if your creative enough.
and if yuo want imperial/chaos $150 with give you a decent 1500 point list. 2 plastic cruisers for $33 can go a fair way.

>> No.9811546

>>9811213
>space battles unimportant
time to start this important surface battle. wheres your army? oh, they got BLOWN UP IN ORBIT? sucks to be you man.

>> No.9811829

By the Way, i've always been curious to start BFG, especially the good old Imperial Navy.
How do you play them / their strenghs/ weaknesses/ what to buy or not ?

>> No.9812119

>>9811439

>playing 15 dollars for a 15 cm hunk of plastic

No thanks.

>> No.9812161

>>9812119
10cms actually.

But all of GWs stuff is overpriced.

>> No.9812166

>>9811301

Oh fuck, thanks for reminding me

GW employee here, I'll just forward a memo to Ward. Jesus fuck christ, so this is why BFG sales are that low...

>> No.9812196

What do you gain if you win a battle in space? You get to live for a bit longer.

What do you gain if you win a battle planetside? You get to keep the planet and all the resources on it.

So yeah, keep on fighting your meaningless battles.

>> No.9812217

>>9812196

>What do you gain if you win a battle in space?

If Imperium, you get to push the big red button labelled "EXTERMINATUS". Otherwise you're fucked.

>> No.9812243

Marines suck balls in Epic, too. You're forced to run a Surprise, cockface! multiple thunderhawk air assault force which is too easy to beat once it has been play against more than once.

>> No.9812245

>>9811829
they're decent, tough ships with good shooting. Major strengths are the armoured from, broadsides, torpedoes. They're also the only fleet with access to nova cannons.

>> No.9812249

>>9812196
> implying having control over planet has any significance if it is cut off by enemy fleet

>> No.9812258

>>9812196
Actually, it's been proven, time and time again, it doesn't matter how good your land soldiers are, if you have air superiority, you win.

>> No.9812262

>>9812249
What is that fleet going to do? Send troops down?

Just to be killed by glorious space marines.

>> No.9812264

Yeah, we played BFG a couple of times. We all chose a fleet, you know? Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids... then one of my friends picked Necrons. That was SO FUN. SO FUN.

>> No.9812271

>>9812196
acutally its kinda the other way around

>> No.9812285

>>9812196
cool story bro

if you win a fleet battle you gain
-the enemy are not going to orbital bombard your sht
-the enemy are not going to be able to send down reinforcements that easy
-the enemy are not going to be able to communicate that easy
+you can orbitally bombard
+you can send down reinforcements
+you can communicate long range

L2Annex
fuck
l2tactics

>> No.9812303

>Control Spess
Nuke it from Orbit, it's the only way to be sure

>> No.9812323

>>9812196
I don't have any facepalm images sufficient for your level of fail

>> No.9812324

>>9812285
>Implying bombardment from non-imperial ships is even a threat to Spess Mehrens
>Implying any troops any faction can send down is a match against Spess Mehrens

>> No.9812342

>>9812258
This.

Control the Skies and you win the battle.
Been that way since WW2, continues to be proven today.

>> No.9812351

never played bfg, only seen in played a few times, but it sounds like it has nothing to do with the fluff, powerwise.

>> No.9812357

>>9812324
Now you're just trollin', broseph.

>> No.9812373

>>9812324
even nid ships have the fire power to glass entire planets if the ever wanted too. there is nothing marines have planetside thats capable of surviving weapons fire from 40k ships

>> No.9812387

>>9812351
actually its very close to the fluff, both in power and how the different fleets play. Marines are shit tier and necrons or fucking over powered

>> No.9812388

If Space Marines are MARINES, shouldn't that imply they should be experts in naval warfare and boarding actions? Or do only Chaos fleets do much boarding in this game? I know I've heard about Necrons teleporting onto the bridges of enemy ships and murdering the crew, so I know it happens...

I'm not saying Mehrens need to be superpowerful in BFG, but it would make sense for them to have those skills considering their alleged role as a rapid strike force.

>> No.9812412

>>9812373
That's the point tho. No one except the imperium has ever glassed a planet.

Chaos doesn't do that shit, they want to get up close and personal.

Tau are too wimpy to do that.

Eldar don't do it because there might be kin on the planet.

Tyranids and Necrons need living things to harvest.

Dark eldar would never waste a possibility to get new slaves.

Orks want to fight. A big blast from orbit is not a fight.

tl;dr only the imperium has the balls to glass a planet

>> No.9812413

>>9812388

>rapid strike force

Not since Reboot Girlyman wrote his book and turned them into a primarily defensive army for some reason, they aren't.

>> No.9812415

>>9812388
Yes, they are good boarding ships, but you have to reach the enemy to do it.

>> No.9812433

>>9812412
Chaos has blasted planets with the Planet Killer or Blackstone Fortress.

Commander Farsight has committed Exterminatus on numerous Ork-held worlds.

>> No.9812440

>>9812388
theyre called marines because somewhere along the line they claimed space was theirs.

dont see why it couldnt have been "Space Craft" or "Space Tanks" for airforce/military instead

>> No.9812447

>>9812351
>ignorant newbie doesn't know his fluff
After the HH, the Legions were broken down into the chapters with the IN getting all the military vessels. Fluffwise, the IG are strongest on land and IN strongest in space with SM for very specialised roles.

>> No.9812448

>>9812388

Marines are experts in Naval Warfare?

Seriously you cant be that fucking retarded to think they are.

>> No.9812464

>>9811198

Is that a Space Marine cruiser attacking a Space Hulk? Do Orks get to field whole Roks in BFG, because that would be awesome.

>> No.9812471

>>9812412
What a goddamned spastic you are

>> No.9812472

>>9812342
because Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam went so well amirite?

Air superiority is only the deciding factor when conventional forces come into play. If you actually sit down and read about how marines fight then you'll see how they are anything but conventional.

Think how the battle in Afghanistan would go if the Taliban and Al-Qaeda were 8 foot tall superhuman super soldiers, or if a single Vietcong could of ripped through an entire American fire team without breaking a sweat.

>> No.9812479

>>9812388
everyone boards and space marines are better than most at it, Nids are the kings of boarding actions in space though, tau suck at boarding actions even more than the suck at CC in 40k.

The problem for space marines is that basically everyone elses ships out range and/or out gun and are at least as fast as the marines ships so its very hard to get a boarding action off, cept against nids but then everyone including marines doesn't want try boarding actions against nids.

>> No.9812481

>>9811198
Reminds me, i always thought there should have been female marines.

But not as ground soldiers in power armor, nope the female marines should have been their spaceship crew.

Like in Starship troopers (the original novel), were the physicall differnces between male and females were balanced at where they are best suited at.

This way, the glorious Space Marines wouldn't be needed to constantly operate their ships and could divide their abilities to were they are excell at, direct combat.

Imagine their ship crews being all female and genetical enhanced to operate better in zero gravity, having better reflexes and their fighter pilots being linked to amazingly advancend space fighters.

>> No.9812487

>>9812472
i don't think we have to worry about the imperium trying to fight a politically correct war

>> No.9812497

>>9812448

I didn't say they were, I said logically they should be, considering they're called MARINES.

>> No.9812501

>>9812481

You are pants on head retarded

>> No.9812503

>>9812464
Orks can field both space hulks and roks

>> No.9812520

>>9812481

This may be a troll post, but it makes perfect sense to me.

>> No.9812534

>>9812520
females reject the organs that they implant in them for the whole process.

>> No.9812537

SMs basically work best when supported with IG or IN. They are spec-ops in power armour

>> No.9812555

>>9812481
The argument that women make better pilots has been debunked.

They are good because they have a small size, which makes it easier for them to cram into small cockpits, but their frames have more fat on average, which doesn't handle g's as well as muscles, and it is proven fact that women have lower spatial reasoning then men, which is highly important in space/air combat.

>> No.9812589

Where is the art in the op pic from?

Damn, I type well when drunk.

>> No.9812604

>>9812534

I know that. That's why it's an alternate idea of how the fluff could have been.

>>9812555

Hmm, didn't know that. Still, rule of cool, sci-fi, and all that.

>> No.9812662

>>9812481
Servitors, slaves, and regular humans are the primary crew of a SM ship.
There are few marines piloting it, maybe the captain and some artillery officers.

>> No.9812670

>>9812555
Ouch, does that mean woman are not for any kind of war (except to make babies)?

Double ouch, i'm a supporter for woman in armed forces.

>> No.9812776

>>9812670
it also be proved that if you take a bunch a woman and a bunch of guy, sure the guy are better in spatial reasoning, but if you train both for a week, they have rougthly the same level.

remember, if you want that your daugther become a kick ass pilot, just make her play with lego, video game and team game and sport. (and if you want that your son become a fagg make it play with doll)

>> No.9812819

>>9812670
>>9812776
Modern air forces no longer employ women as fighter pilots because high-g manœuvres can induce uterine inversion. Ouch. Other than that I don't think they have any problems.

>> No.9812895

>>9812555
YOu are so full of fucking shit it's unreal. Sure, fat doesn't handle G's as well as muscles, but the "small cockpit" part is really significant, because a small body means that the blood has less room to shrink away from, which means that a man and a woman of average height would have very different reactions to those G's BECAUSE THE BLOOD WOULD BE FURTHER AWAY FROM THE HEAD IN CASE OF THE MAN. Which is the entire point of female fighter pilots, they survive higher g's despite their hugher fat percentage thanks to them being smaller than the men.

So an airforce should consist of women and short men. Like horce racing jockeys.

>> No.9812923

bfg where only chaos as the MASSIVE death killy ships and they arnt that great

and i play a bomber heavy chaos fleet with lots of idolaters murders and slaughter with marks of the dark prince

>> No.9812938

>>9812604
Well they could still build something like that in.

In the next codex to the Space Marines or their fleet, it's revealed that shortly before the Horus Heresy, the Emperor has worked on a process to create enhanced pilots for his Marines ships and fighters.

But he had trouble getting the process working with man, their minds couldn't keep up the processing, or simliar problems with the male brains thought and reaction process.
However he found out that female subjects had fewer problems and started working on them instead.

However while he managed to finish his development and even designed special controll systems and space and arial fighters for them. He couldn't bring this plan into motion before Horus betrayl.

However 4000 years later a scribe finds the informations, blue prints, etc. on Terra and sends them to the higher leaders. Through the burocratic process it took 3000 years to reach them, the first reaction of the Lord Commander back then was: "Those fucking pencil pushers!!!".
However because of conflict between the other parts of the senat (navigators, mechanicus, fleet command etc.), it took another few millenia until the plans were official declared as acceptable and really done by the emperor. Also meanwhile the Space Marines had finaly heared of the whole creation and argued among each other if the plans should be put in use.

>> No.9812944

Something I've wanted to know about BFG.

Can you use the black ships? They have interested me and I am a SOB fan so I was hoping to at least put a LITTLE of them in any flett I ran.

>> No.9812949

Finaly at the time of the new codex, the idea had been followed. The process had been recreated (using Space Marine Gene Seed to repair lost informations in the process, making the females somewhat tied to chapters and having parts of their styles) and perfected. The fighters build, blessed and accapted by the Mechanicus. The rituals developed. The females picked, trained and enhanced.
And the Space Fighters have taken their place among chapters of at least a few Space Marines.

Also to make the more appealing to fans, you could also add the idea that the entire process doesn't overly mutilates the body and that they even have special implants which constantly train their muscles to a degree, so that they can quickly switch from space to atmospheric combat, while looking as pleasing to fans as Soritas.

>> No.9812995

>>9812923
whats your bay count? I run a nid fleet ordnance spam sometimes with 24 launch bays at 1500 points

>> No.9812999

>>9812938
>>9812949
Considering that it would allow them to produce an entirely new range models and even encourage people to modify those new fighter models, with little signs, emblems, weapon configuartion, etc.

It wouldn't put it beyond them to pull something like that off.

>> No.9813008

>>9812944
there's generalised stats for transports, aren't black ships just transports with a special cargo?

>> No.9813037

BFG! F-yeah!

Imperium was here. Weaponry is the great leveler. Daemons Traitor Marines die just as easily as their cultists to lances and torpedoes.

>> No.9813083

>>9813008

...Sorta...

They have a lot more defence than a standard transport and the guards on board as Sisters of Battle and Adeptus Astra Telepathica.

So its a bigger, better transport with elite crew that are either psykers or elite soldiers.

But yeah, it's more or less a better than average transport.

I imagine the stats for transports are rather shoddy?

>> No.9813130

>>9813083
yeah, they're only about the size of a cobra destroyer, but basically unarmed.
For what you describe just run a counts as cruiser. base the conversion on a chaos cruiser maybe..

>> No.9813154

>>9813130

How many ships are there in a good sized imperial navy force and what do they favor?

I've heard they are slow but armoured and have BIG guns.

>> No.9813159

Necrons are here.

Due to lack of the proper codex in the 40K, we have to overcompensate a little and be able to kill larger ships with light cruisers.

>> No.9813197

>>9813154
if you go pure cruisers with a battle cruiser (made from the same kit) or 2 your looking at 6-7 ships at 1500 points, depends which ones you take.
another common list would 1 battle ship, 4 cruisers and a ten or so escorts.
Depends on what you want to do

>> No.9813206

Well I actually like BFG like this because it follows the fluff perfectly. The space marines are shock troops. They have ships yes but they are to be used mainly for the transport of said space marines and to provide orbital support. The Imperial guard does indeed have a greater navy as they have a dedicated a lot of effort towards it.

>> No.9813214

>>9813197

Is there much you can do to customise your ships (Change weapons/systems).

Also, sorry to be a bother but where would I get the rules for it? Will I have to order them in or are they one of the small games that GW gives out the rules for free?

>> No.9813223

>>9813154
Imperial ships are slowish, and heavily favour broadsiding, which they excel at.
Torpedoes are another strength, and they can build a carrier list.

>> No.9813231

>>9813206
>Imperial Guard
>greater Navy

The Imperial Guard HAS no spacecraft. At all. They rely on bulk transporters loaned out to them by the Imperial Navy, an entirely seperate organisation.

You don't play as the Imperial Guard in BFG, you play as the Imperial Navy. Different things.

>> No.9813243

>>9811198
So here's a question related to 40k in general:

Why do the space marines all have gear and vehicles that look so overwhelmingly retarded?

>> No.9813245

>>9813231
Because the admirals couldn't be trusted with tens of thousands of men right?

>> No.9813247

>>9813214
theres no customisation, but there's several classes of each sized ship so you can get what you want anyway. The rules are free on the GW website. Ships of the Gothic sector is the basic list while the Imperial ships file is some extra ones from the Armada "expansion"

>> No.9813261

>>9813231
Or the Admech if that takes you fancy, though the ships are pretty much the same.

>> No.9813311

>>9813231
Yea yea Im not being specific. But you get the general idea of what i said. I just said guard because they are generally synonymous with all things imperium.

>> No.9813312

>>9813245
got to do with the horus heresy, after the heresy the entire military was restructured so no single group can take on the rest. Eg the entire IG is dependent on the navy for mass transport and defence in space, guard decides to rebel? the never get off world. Even if all the Marine chapters decided to try kill the imperium the imperial navy would just curbstomp them in space. And the Imperial Navy has no ground forces with which it could take and secure food, water, fuel and such from planets.

>> No.9813408
File: 480 KB, 793x1122, Black Ship 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9813408

>>9812944

>> No.9813414
File: 303 KB, 793x1122, Black Ship 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9813414

>>9813408

>> No.9813438

>>9813414

Ooh...

Pity about how few are allowed.

So...what do these rule mean compared ot other ships? I do not yet know the system. Is it a good ship?

>> No.9813454

>>9813414
>>9813408
what book is that in?

>> No.9813469

>>9813438
yeah looks fairly good, compare it to some of the other imperial cruisers to get an idea.

>> No.9813511

>>9813454
Issue 9 of the Battlefleet Gothic magazine, I think. It was one of the downloads on the old specialist games site.

>> No.9813526

>>9813511
oh ok thanks

>> No.9813584

It's a good thing lore wise the imperial navy does all the space fighting for the marines.

Plus marines are supposed to fail at space combat, they are infantry troops.

>> No.9815860
File: 567 KB, 1024x768, Divine_Intervention_by_The_First_Magelord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9815860

>your precious space puppies

Errr OP, you do realise that the Space Wolves are non codex, and in the fluff use captured Battle Cruisers and ships of the line, while still having a few Crusade era Battle Ships hidden away in the Fang's space docks don't you?

One of the BFG fan mag's has a custom Space Wolf rule set to reflect this.

>> No.9815949

Space Marine fan here.

You think I give a shit?

It's only logical that the Space Marines have trouble in space combat.

They're fucking ground forces. Not a fucking Navy.

Just the fact that a ground force is capable of space combat is a testament of the true power of the Space Marines.

>> No.9816109
File: 47 KB, 800x600, 1254130497019.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9816109

>Just the fact that a ground force is capable of space combat is a testament of the true power of the Space Marines.

Brofist

>> No.9816117

How close is RT to BFG in terms of fluff?
Does the ships in RT have the correct number of guns etc? What about the relationship between various ships?

In RT, it's pretty easy to escape an engagement since ship speed> weapon range. Is this true in BFG?

One obvious difference I know about is the Eldar ships in BFG have variable speed in relation to the sun that they don't in RT. Anything else?

>> No.9816138

>>9816109
>>9815949
>Muhreenfags getting sloppy over each other swapping gene-seed.

>> No.9816158

>implying that a ground force should be able to do anything in a space battle.


THATS WHY THE NAVY EXISTS, TO PROTECT THE MARINES AND THE GUARD WHILE THEY ARE IN SPACE

>> No.9816163

>>9816138
You know what they say about people that make jokes about gay sex, aye?

>> No.9816166

A BFG thread a day keeps the kiddies away.

>> No.9816193

"BFG"

Battle Fight Galatica?

>> No.9816209

>>9816163
*Raises hand*
Okay, I confess, I'm a closet muhreenfag, and I'm ashamed of it.

>> No.9816218

>>9816193
Big Friendly Gun
lrn2googlenewfag

>> No.9817011

So does anyone play the vassal module?

>> No.9817030

>>9816193
Battle Fleet Gothic, fag. lrn2readOP

>> No.9817093
File: 25 KB, 370x305, frieza1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9817093

BFG is the only scale where DBZ characters could possibly fit

imagine Frieza's stats, he has a Planet Killer attack

>> No.9817390
File: 51 KB, 872x489, ThreadScreenie1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9817390

>>9816117

Escort sized vessels (Raider and Frigate hulls in Rogue Trader) are MUCH stronger in Rogue Trader (which makes sense since they are far more likely to be a PC ship than a Battlecruiser).

In BFG they're 1 HP ships meant to be used in small wolf pack squadrons. In fact the "Lance" classification is given by the criteria it has to be a weapon capable of destroying a Escort vessel in a single hit. IIRC.


Meanwhile in Rogue Trader my group's Frigate went toe to toe with a light cruiser for several rounds. We lost the fight, having to withdraw and go dark, crippled, but we gave the cruiser a significant bloodying. In fact, if not for the stupid move/shoot rules system and a lucky hard hit by their lance (which only got one shot off before we disabled it) we might've been able to win that fight.

So why IS Rogue Trader "I move, I shoot, You move, You shoot"? WHY isn't it "I move, You Move, I shoot, You shoot)? We tried to stay in the cruiser's blind spot to aft (after intentionally taking the first hit on the chin to give us the chance to get behind it) only to be foiled by the stupid movement system. We'd move into their blind spot, shoot, then they'd just move to put us in arc and shoot back. Sorry, just fuming a bit here.

>> No.9817436
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9817436

>>9816117

Ships in RT are very customizable while in BFG, everything is rigidly set, you want a certain type/armament you have to get the right variant.

>> No.9819649

I have determined that the OP is a defensive whiny little bitch.

That being said, space battles are more important than ground battles, by the same token that who ever has air superiority typically has the upper hand in ground engagements.

>> No.9819929

>>9817390
>>9817436
Cheers. Another question, the Dauntless feels a little under armed considering it's size, does a BFG light cruiser have the same armament as a BFG raider?

>> No.9820957
File: 52 KB, 640x480, bfg05.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
9820957

>>9819929

Don't remember the BFG rules/stats well enough to tell you that.

>> No.9822172

>>9815860
they don't need a custom rule set, the segmentum solar fleet list lets you take Imperial navy ships with space marine ships in the same fleet.

>> No.9822205

>>9819929
The Dauntless out guns BFG escorts, While sword class frigate has firepower 4 batteries the duantless has fire power 4 for each broadside in addition to its lances/torpedoes.

>> No.9823868

>>9812472
yeah... that only works if your looking for occupation or avoiding PR involved in genocide. Really if you control the airspace you can avoid conflict all together and starve them out. If push comes to shove, you can still hit them from orbit too.

>>
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