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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.9628233 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>> No.9628248

MGS2 was the worst game in the series.

>> No.9628251

That depends on how you accomplish the task. If you go by a set of rules to do it(like Osama and the congress) then you're Lawful/Evil.

>> No.9628273

>> No.9628274


>> No.9628286

I haven't actually played that game, but he sounds like he could very easy be CG. His quote is pretty much picture perfect CG, so if he's serious about it, he's probably Chaotic Good.

>> No.9628298

Worst plot in the history of vidya.

>> No.9628336


>> No.9628344

You'd think so. Some just take a CG concept and go mental with it.

>> No.9628350

MGS2 was terrible. MGS4 was better but still terrible. What I could give for their gameplay and none of the stupid plot. Beyond Twin Snakes, that is.

>> No.9628353

>> No.9628367

The best movies I've ever played.

... sorta.

>> No.9628377

Nah, he's CN. He's totally wiling to commit terrorism on a massive scale for his goals. Capturing the President, creating a plot to nuke (literally) the world's economy, take over New York. His goals are wonderful, but he's a villain in the end.

Also, child soldiers.

>> No.9628385


>> No.9628386

That's exactly what he is.

>> No.9628392

One man's villain is another's hero. When you're fighting an enemy like the Patriots you have to get your hands dirty.

>> No.9628417

See, we return to the child soldiers thing, which was what he did before he got his noble purpose. Fuck yeah, mercenary armies. I still stand by him being neutral with good intentions.

>> No.9628426

As I understand it, using power to bring about peace(Kain, Bison, etc) makes you lawful evil since you have a set goal and, I would assume, set rules.

Chaotic good is the free spirit that will do good, but not commit to a cause to further it.

>> No.9628457

I see him as evil with good intentions. I find that a very common sort of alignment. Want omelet, crack some eggs, I know. But what he was out to do was comparable with kicking the chicken in the gut while the egg is still inside it.

>> No.9628463

CN people are usually characterised by being individuals who don't have allegiances and only care about what they get a kick out of i.e. Jack Sparrow and Blackadder.

Not always. Kain would have become LE if he attained victory - and internally the Brotherhood of Nod is a LE organisation. However, Solidus was just fighting for the freedom of the world from the patriots. He does this by deliberately opposing 'law and order' as it were, and introducing chaos into the world (hence the nuke of the world's economy).

>> No.9628531

Kojima shouldn't be allowed to anime up his games.

>> No.9628648

How did he get that little bendy straw down to his mouth? I remember it was all the wrong shape to go over his face shield thing.

>> No.9628654

Am I the only one who actually liked MGS2? Sure, the plot went completely fucknuts stupid after about half the game, but the gameplay was still solid, and MGS1 wasn't exactly well-written either (Decoy Octopus, Sniper Wolf and Master Miller spring to mind).

Now, Snake Eater was just terrible. Way too much shitty combat, alerts that lasted so long it was better to just kill yourself rather than suffer through a 10 minute caution phase and camouflage that needed changing every ten seconds of crawling.

Not to mention virtually retconning the entire plot of the first two games (alongside MGS4, at least) and introducing some utterly retarded plot points.

>> No.9628658

man OP, i know it was a troll but you made me rage.

>> No.9628682

I liked it. I just liked it least of the series. Not that that's a bad thing, really.

>> No.9628689

>Completely didn't get the point of the games.

>> No.9628700


"Chaotic Evil" does not mean "Chaotic Badguy".

>> No.9628731

How about we label him Chaotic Antagonist, with Snake as Chaotic Protagonist, and Raiden would be Lawful Protagonist?

>> No.9628755


>> No.9628760

>> No.9628769

>> No.9628775

Wait what how is The Boss chaotic anything

>> No.9628777

I dunno. I think of the Patriots more as NE.

>> No.9628780

>Now, Snake Eater was just terrible. Way too much shitty combat, alerts that lasted so long it was better to just kill yourself rather than suffer through a 10 minute caution phase and camouflage that needed changing every ten seconds of crawling.


Snake Eater was a game where they gave you more tools to avoid capture (camouflage) and thus it was a bigger deal when you got caught. Also, if you don't get caught THERE IS NO SHITTY COMBAT YOU DUMB FUCK ARGH

>> No.9628785

>> No.9628786

Sure is Patriots in here.

Chaotic Good.

>> No.9628791

Thought that was chaotic neutral

>> No.9628793


>> No.9628795

>> No.9628806


Think about the whole Zero vs Big Boss thing. When the Patriots are LE, it's referring to Zero.

Provided you ignore the MGS4 ending... otherwise he's somewhere between NE and CG

>> No.9628808

Even a series as silly as Metal Gear is to morally complex to fit neatly into D&D's 9 Alignment boxes.

>> No.9628818

I'm pretty sure I did. I enjoyed the first two games. Then they started shifting the genre and experimenting, and things went to shit. MGS4 is barely a stealth game anymore, and MGS3 is not even about playing a game as much as entering a menu every ten seconds, making you completely invisible. They're both so slow it's painful, and it doesn't help that it takes the better part of ten minutes to rectify a single mistake instead of 90 seconds.

I liked it simple. You have your radar (at least after entering those terminals in MGS2), you have your guns and gadgets. Deal with it. No camo, no hiding in plain sight. You end up in the open with a guard looking your way, you're fucked.

>> No.9628819

>ocelot: tn
>liquid: ne
>liquid ocelot: cn

>> No.9628822

How is Solidus of all people evil?
He wanted to FREE AMERICA.

>> No.9628834

Young ocelot =/= old ocelot

>> No.9628843


>Liquid as NE
>Ocelot as CE
>Solidus as LE
>Other fickle errors

Because she 'betrays' America and assists in Volgin's revolution to try to unite the world

>> No.9628852

Doesn't make him good. Hitler wanted to make the world better as well.

>> No.9628868

I'd swap Old Ocelot and Liquid, maybe replace Solidus, then I could kinda agree with it.

Also, good and evil are subjective. Law and Chaos are a sliding scale. Typically, we view Solidus/Liquid/etc as evil, but it could very well be seen in their eyes that they are doing whatever it takes for freedom (At least for Solidus, pretty sure Liquid was in it to cause havoc.).

>> No.9628871

I'd say that she was Lawful Neutral. She did what the government required of her, and let her apprentice kill her so that she would take all of the blame and prevent a nuclear war from happening.

>> No.9628872

>> No.9628897

Not necessarily. Yeah, she followed her government's orders - but only because they coincided with her own beliefs. She said herself that she and her father were set up by her own government and the Philosophers. She's the one who introduced Jack (being LN at this point, see >>9628769 that quote) to the idea of being loyal to yourself rather than loyal to your country).

>> No.9628912

>> No.9628918



>> No.9628920

Which he did via a military coup, killing loads of people, kidnapping the president and crashing an experimental superweapon full of nukes into Washington DC.

>> No.9628936

Right, so we've established he's a whatever it takes kind of guy.

>> No.9628952

The amount of people he killed is very debatable. Every time you're told he killed someone, you're told by the 'Colonel', which is just a Patriot AI. In truth, the only person we see him kill is Olga.

>> No.9628993

I liked Olga!

>> No.9629010


he'd be chaotic good duh

>> No.9629011

I'm not saying he's not evil - I think he is (or at least, he's certainly not good) - all I'm saying is that he probably didn't kill as many as we think he did.

>> No.9629026

He fucking tells Raiden that he killed his parents and is responsible for Raiden and countless others being child soldiers.

>> No.9629045

Yeah, I'm not going to lie, I REALLY don't see how he went into politics after doing that stuff for a while.

>> No.9629069

Yeah, you're right. Still, he might be different when MGS2 takes place since then. Let's face it, during MGS1 he was president and licking the Patriots' boots. Still a different person.

>> No.9629097

The fact is that a lot of characters in world-theater games like MGS (and, in fact, a lot of real-world political and historical figures) are Heroic Evil.

No matter how good your intent, you can only murder so many people before you stop being eligible for the Good alignments. That's just how alignments work.

>> No.9629106

He's the standard definition of Neutral Good.
He does whatever he can to help people, and while he tries to do what's right by the law, and for most of his life he did, his personality is Neutral as it goes to Law/Chaos.
He's not as Neutral as Snake, but not as Lawful as the GW AI.

>> No.9629156

We do see Dead Cell killing a bunch of Navy Seals under his orders. The security detail that had to have been at an event where the president attended is nowhere to be seen. We know for a fact he is utterly indifferent to the thousands, if not millions of deaths he will cause by taking down the Patriots.

>> No.9629626

So, again we come back to Neutral or Evil.

>> No.9630115

Just watched the MGS2 ending again. He's Chaotic Evil, but with good intentions. In his mind he's Chaotic Good, and he probably was Chaotic Neutral at one point, but now he's just slipped into the CE road.

He's not as CE as say, Liquid, but he's still gone evil - but as I said, with good intentions.

>> No.9630131

I loved MGS2's plot for two reasons.
1. Postmodern videogame lol
2. It made other fans like you guys RAGE.

I was actually really disappointed when they went to a more standard plot in MGS3 again, though that doesn't mean I didn't like it.

>> No.9630157

This. A thousand times this.

>> No.9630169

This is a thread about MGS2, so take it to fucking /v/: >>>/v/

If you'd at least turned this into an alignment thread instead of just blatant video game discussion...

>> No.9630185

I thought the Boss was lawful good. Following orders without asking for anything?


>> No.9630287

It is still an alignment thread...

He's here:

Also as was explained earlier, the Boss did follow orders but only because they coincided with her own beliefs. She was very chaotic in what she did, and the US government's law didn't mean any more to her than the Soviet's.

>> No.9630353

I loved MGS2.
I thought it was great. It's one of my favorite games.
In fact, everyone I know considers it one of the high points of the series.

If I didn't LOVE MGS3 and it's gameplay and the tone of it's bosses, I'd place 2 as higher. That said, 2&3 are both on my top list of games.

She was a Neutral Good villain.
She made herself into the enemy BECAUSE the United States Government wanted her to.
She was never a traitor.
She was the greatest patriot.
Loyalty to the end.

Throughout that entire game, she was on Snake's team. Her part in the entire thing was to die so that the Cold War didn't go Hot. She did as she was told.
She played the part of the villain because she was ordered to. She gave her life because she was order to. More than that, she gave her life for Snake, not honour.

>> No.9630489

She also taught Snake the meaning of being loyal to yourself rather than to the government - the whole overblown speech just before you fight her proves this. Yeah, she was following orders - but it just so happens that her orders gave the same result as her goals anyway: global unity through the rebirth of the Philosophers. If her orders had been something different, such as to start WWIII or to genuinely help Volgin, she would have refused.

Yeah, she was a true patriot in the end - but not to the government.

>> No.9630510

I love the boss.

>> No.9631537

How do you know she intended all that stuff to happen?

>> No.9632254

She explains her goals and intentions just before you fight her, then EVA tells you the rest at the end.

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