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[ERROR] No.9085831 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Hello kids, and welcome to Goblin's Homebrew Corner!

Today, we'll be looking at something shiny, ancient, and over-the-top powerful - The Adeptus Custodes!

Codex Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C2XAHO5M

>> No.9085889

The first thing that I wanted to make sure of was that the Custodes could make a 500 point list that fit the legal FOC, even if it meant only fielding three models.

And it does. Three models, with 30 points to spend on wargear.

>> No.9085908

>> No.9085917

Counts as Sanguinary Guard without jump packs.

>> No.9085925

Second, I wanted to add a little variety to the list, given that even Space Marines have SOME diversity. To that end, I added the Sisters of Silence, which both give the list some very valuable Anti-Psyker capabilities, and help to break up the "MEN IN GOLDEN ARMOR" vibe. They haven't been heard of since the Heresy one way or another, so it made sense in my mind that they're still around, probably on Terra. And at 50 points a pop, they're the least expensive units in the Codex.

>> No.9085927

>>9085889

>> No.9085932

Why are they wearing spirit stones?

>> No.9085951

One thing that I wanted to make sure of was that the Custodes were reflected on the board similarly to how they were in the fluff - To this end, they had to be able to take a great deal of punishment, and deal a terrible amount to their foes, but to balance that out, they each needed to be expensive enough to reflect that - Every Custode that falls in battle is a major dent in your force.

>> No.9085955

>>9085932

I'm guessing that they're just large gems.

>> No.9085962

>>9085932
To trap the souls of the Eldar they kill.

Even Eldrad wont fuck with that.

>> No.9085966

do they have a 1+ armor save and a 2+ invulnerable?

>> No.9085979

One thing notable about the list is the lack of Psykers. I couldn't recall an instance of a Custode showing any great degree of Psychic power, and at any rate, other armies, such as the Tau and Necrons, manage to get by without Psykers. They're still on the low end of the power spectrum, but not because of a lack of Psychic powers.

>> No.9085988

>>9085966

No, actually. Regular Custodes have 3+/4+, and the Custodes Sergeant has a 2+/4+.

>> No.9086012

Motherfucking custodes!

Seriously, 3 wounds for the troops?

How big a force could you play in a Apoc game?

>> No.9086022

You know why I like Custodes?

THEY HAVE GUNS ON STICKS. THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS, YOU TAKE YOUR GUN AND PUT IT ON THE END OF A STICK BECAUSE YOU ARE THAT AWESOME. WHO IS MORE AWESOME THAN THAT? NO-ONE, THAT'S WHO.

>> No.9086026

The list is somewhat limited - There's only 1 HQ choice, 2 Elites, 1 Troops, 2 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support, but less units means less to balance, and at any rate, Custodes didn't seem to me the sort to remain in the safety of Rhinos or Land Raiders. In fact, the only real vehicle on the list is the Custodes Dreadnought.

>> No.9086030

>>9085966
They'd better.

>> No.9086033

>>9085979

No point having psykers if you've got anti-psykers too.

>> No.9086046

>>9086012
isn't apoc just >2,500
so you could field the whole 1,000 (assuming they follow space marine rules)

>> No.9086051

>>9086022
It gives them an extra 3m to their bolter range.

>> No.9086052

>>9086012

Depends on what you're using. Sisters of Silence are the cheapest unit per-model, but the minimum Squad Size is 5, with one being a Silent Matron, so that's 260 points right there.

>> No.9086055

Adeptus Custodes
500 points per model
At any point in the game the Custodes player may start knocking shit off the table at random for as long as he wants.

>> No.9086069

>>9086046

They do not follow Space marine Chapter organization.

Because Rowboat is an upstart little faggot.

>> No.9086074

>>9086046

There's 10,000 custodes.

Not sure about the sisters though.

>> No.9086102

>>9086055
this is awesome

>> No.9086104

Throneguard... I'm not sure what I was thinking with these guys. Somewhere I got the idea that the Custodes tasked with guarding the throne wear less armor, and bam, cheaper, faster, less well-armored Custodes to fill an Elites slot.

>> No.9086109

>>9086055

I think this would be better:

Adeptus Custodes
For every 500 points of models the Custodes player may throw a shoe at his enemy's forces each turn. Any models knocked down or damaged by the shoes are removed from play and melted down.

>> No.9086117

Goblin, Custodes had termies, didn't they?

>> No.9086124

>>9086055
>>9086109

Man, you guys are going to HATE tomorrow's Primarch thread.

>> No.9086134

>>9086124

Primarch thread? Fuck year!

>> No.9086141

>>9086109
Or they have a "Emperor's Guard" ability.

"Your opponent is forced to play by the Iron Man rules."

(Iron Man rules: When a unit of yours is destroyed, the model must be physically destroyed as well.)

>> No.9086142

>>9086117

Did they? I don't remember ever hearing of any.

>> No.9086149

>>9086142

I'm sure I've seen pictures of them, I'll check at some point.

>> No.9086153

>>9086134

Eh, don't get too excited, there's rules for 19 Primarchs and I have no idea what the pricing should look like.

>> No.9086171

AT ANY RATE

Thoughts, Opinions, Suggestions, Playtesters?

>> No.9086221

>>9086171
fuck yes i'd be willing to playtest that shit. assuming you send me the rules updated for 5th editon 40k and the miniatures.

>> No.9086230

>>9085908
i think i'm lost

>> No.9086238

Guess I'll just keep posting, then.

While at first glance, the list seems to have little (If anything) in the way of anti-tank, a closer look reveals that even the most basic of troops have a decent shot of taking out a tank in melee - The army is very much close-combat oriented, and with the teleporter upgrade, the foe will be hard-pressed to keep away from them.

>> No.9086249

>>9086221

Rules are linked up top, relevant for 5e, and the miniatures... Just use marines or something.

>> No.9086268

yeah make those halberds w/ guns force weapons (i force weaponed a nightbringer, it was lulz) and give them like spec rules that allow them to idk "every turn the player must move 3 inches in the opposite direction from whence they came"

>> No.9086275

Are custodes immortal unless someone kills them in battle?

I always assumed that was how the SM worked and Custodes are basically SM+

Have those same guys just been hanging around the palace this ENTIRE time?

>> No.9086277

>>9086221
You mean the 5e core rulebook? Here.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tzdnfnvijmt/5E_Rulebook.pdf

I am still playtesting Tau homebrew on VASSAL now and then.

>> No.9086281

Loot Custodes.

Be Flashiest o' Flashgitz.

>> No.9086284

>>9086171
I ran a playtest with a friend a while ago. Their bolters are TOO good. Played against CSM, didn't lose a single custodian. It's almost like an army where you're fielding nothing but HQ's. It is that, it is a list filled with over the top HQ's.
It was fun, but either their bolters need to be fixed, or their BS need to be lowered. The combination of the two was just too wild.

>> No.9086293

>>9086275

Indeed they have.

>>9086268

I've been unable to find any evidence that the Custodes would have been able to use Force Weapons.

>> No.9086299

>>9086284

Which aspect(s) of the bolters proved too powerful?

>> No.9086334

>>9086277
I'd been looking for this. Thanks, Gobbo.

>> No.9086383

It's basically an army of Tzeentch Daemon Princes with grenades, FNP and option to buy ├╝ber-wings. May be fluffy if you subscribe to the Custodes = Demigods theory, but not very fun to play against.

>> No.9086410

>>9086383

Suggestions for revision?

>> No.9086418

>>9086142
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Custodes

There's some Custodes Terminators on there. Too lazy to save/upload the pic.

>> No.9086449

>>9086418

Seriously?

FUCK.

I get the feeling putting them in the HS section, and making them the infantry weapon platforms may work best.

>> No.9086453

>>9086410

Up the cost of models by 20%, or remove the 2d6 pen from the spears. The combination of multiple wounds, 4+ invulnerable, FNP and Eternal warrior is NASTY, Great Unclean ones are pretty much only ones with it, and they are more expensive, HQ only, and slow.

>> No.9086467

i can't open OP's codex! ;_;

i can download it but i can't open it, it seems i dont have the right programs or somthing?

can somone port it over to PDF version or a notepad/wordpad version please?

>> No.9086469

jetbikes and terminators, fuck yeah

>> No.9086484

>> No.9086511

>>9086453

They don't actually have Eternal Warrior, but I agree, FNP can go. The 2d6 on the spears... I don't know, they don't have much anti-tank otherwise.

>> No.9086522

Read the codex. Answer a few questions, if you will?

1) What possible justification can you have for guardian spears being S6 AP3 Assault2? They're boltguns on sticks! Sure, make them master-crafted, maybe even bump them to S5 or say they have psycannon rounds or something. But there's really no precedent for having such ridiculously good kit. Yeah, Custodes are elite, but CHAPTER MASTERS don't get weapons that good.

2) Why all the Fearful Aura? They're badasses, but no more so than 90% of the rest of the 40K universe's races.

3) Troops with WS6 BS5 S6 T5 W3?! OK, *granted* these guys are the absolute nuts, each one represents the toughest hard-ass a different solar system has to offer (or whatever) and they eat, drink, sleep and shit constant combat training and prayer/meditation (and probably get dosed to the eyeballs with steroids and combat drugs). But STILL, my bullshitometer goes into overdrive when I see that statline. That's friggin' Tyranid monstrous creature territority. Nothing that comes in a squad on 25mm bases should have a statline like that. Make it something like WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 and then I'll take it seriously.

The rest of the list, I actually quite like. I really dig the idea of these guys being the absolute cream of an entire race's military and getting the finest (if some of the oldest) weapons and armour humanity can offer. Even more remarkable is the fact that unless they were recruited from outside forces, most of these phenomenal tough-nuts have probably never seen genuine action, since they're stationed on the most ludicrously secure human world in the galaxy.

>> No.9086536

>Gold armor everywhere
>Fuckawesome sue-ness
>Immortal

Custodes are solars.

>> No.9086571

>>9086511
Model the spears after Nemesis Force Weapons, just without the force part. S6, counts as power weapon for squad leaders, optionally counts as thunder hammer for any non-grunt model, but goes with one attack that way.

>> No.9086572

>>9086522
You do know that a basic custodes is meant to be more powerful than a space marine chapter master right?

>> No.9086574

>>9086522

>1) What possible justification can you have for guardian spears being S6 AP3 Assault2? They're boltguns on sticks! Sure, make them master-crafted, maybe even bump them to S5 or say they have psycannon rounds or something. But there's really no precedent for having such ridiculously good kit. Yeah, Custodes are elite, but CHAPTER MASTERS don't get weapons that good.
Good point... I used a pre-existing statline for the weapons, let me see if I can find it.

>2) Why all the Fearful Aura? They're badasses, but no more so than 90% of the rest of the 40K universe's races.
Because these fuckers served at the Emprah's side. They are fucking SCARY.

>3) Troops with WS6 BS5 S6 T5 W3?! OK, *granted* these guys are the absolute nuts, each one represents the toughest hard-ass a different solar system has to offer (or whatever) and they eat, drink, sleep and shit constant combat training and prayer/meditation (and probably get dosed to the eyeballs with steroids and combat drugs). But STILL, my bullshitometer goes into overdrive when I see that statline. That's friggin' Tyranid monstrous creature territority. Nothing that comes in a squad on 25mm bases should have a statline like that. Make it something like WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W2 and then I'll take it seriously.
Hmm... I agree, the WS should go down a bit, but they are SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than Marines, so I'd say S5 T5 woulld be the minimum.

>> No.9086585

>>9086536
>Custodes are solars

yes and thats why they need solar level stats and gear

>> No.9086590

>>9086572
Yeah, and Space Marines are invincible in the wardverse. Not a point. Fluff is always over the top.

>> No.9086594

>>9086511

Every Custodes model has adamantium mantle, which makes them immune to instant death.

>> No.9086599

>>9086522
1) Str 5 seems sensible, you're right, but everything else I feel is approproate.

2) I don't think he went as far overboard as you do. I can agree to WS5, each custode being an ork warboss in close combat, but the custodes need S5 T5, they're above and beyond other space marines.

>> No.9086602

>>9086574

Scarier than this guy?

>> No.9086612

>>9086594

Oh, derp, you're right. That's what I get for not being as familiar with SM wargear as I should be.

>> No.9086626

please guys could one of you be kind enough to copy OP's codex and turn it into a word/notepad or a simple pdf please

i can't open op's codex, please guys help a bro out

i'm begging here ;_;

>> No.9086632

>>9086602

Probably not. I haven't mathhammered it out, could one of these Custodes take Angron on 1v1?

>> No.9086662

>>9086632
Angron really should be able to take down multiple custodes.

>> No.9086669

>>9086632

No, but it would be relatively close considering Angron's fuckhuge point cost.

Actually a more valid comparison would be a Bloodthirster, which is 250 points for 1 less wound, I and A than Angron but otherwise identical.
2

>> No.9086670

>>9086662

I'm pretty sure he can.

>> No.9086682

>>9086574
I just read the lexicanium page and if anything it suggests that Custodes would be significantly weaker than your stats, in particular it says they don't usually wear armour. Is this codex set pre-heresy, or where are you getting your fluff from?

>> No.9086689

>>9086669

Oh, BT of course lacks the fear aura and the instakilling weapon.

>> No.9086720

>>9086682

Pre-Heresy.

>> No.9086748

>>9086299
The Strength 6, AP 3 along with the BS 5 was just too good.
I think the only way something could stand against these guys is if the other army fields about as many HQ's as they can. Even then, the custodians are really good. I had a lot of fun testing these guys out, but I could tell my opponent was having a very good time.

>> No.9086772

>>9086748

S5 AP 4 sound more reasonable?

>> No.9086824

>>9086772
I'd say that's still good, but not crazy good. Seems perfectly fine to me.

>> No.9086831

why do throneguard gave 4+/4+? when normal Custodes have 3+/4+?

>> No.9086849

>>9086831

No power armor.

>> No.9086883

>>9086720
you should read HH specifcally tales of heresy, custodes are not ubermarines

>> No.9086896

>>9086883

>Implying Custodes' power level in canon isn't wildly variable

These fuckers put the PRIMARCHS in their place.

>> No.9086909

>>9086883
No. They are trained to operate as individuals and individually modified. They're bodyguards, duelists, and investigators. They are in fact tasked with preventing assassinations, and act covertly in many cases the current setting.

One could theorize that they're training is that of the Temple Vanus, that one temple you can't talk about. Because maybe that's the Temple where you train Assassins to kill Assassins.

>> No.9086916

>>9086909
>that their training
rather

>> No.9086950

>>9086883
And yet, they adore Roboute Guilliman as their spiritual liege.

>> No.9086957

>>9086522
>Nothing that comes in a squad on 25mm bases should have a statline like that.

lololololol

>> No.9086963

>>9086957
He dosnt come in squads though. He can of course join em

>> No.9086966

>>9086153

19 Primarchs?

You're... Including Rachnus?

>HARMONY.jpg

>> No.9086972

>>9086957
...the troll faceshat, disproving himself with his picture choice.

>> No.9086977

>>9086963

Not an IC, can't join squads.

>> No.9087001

>>9086963
nope, he is a squad (sorta). He cannot join other units as he is not an independent character (same as sanguinor and death company tycho)

>> No.9087019

>>9085889

That's retarded, I'm sorry. Even Custodes aren't supposed to be *that* much more powerful than Marines.

I mean it would be legitimate, possibly, to give them WS, BS, S, and T 5, 2+ saves, and make them around 50-60 points each, squads of 3-5, but that's as far as I'd take it.

There is a point at which you can't balance things effectively simply by raising their cost. If a model can wtfpwn an entire army on its own, to take the most extreme example, it doesn't really matter how much it costs because it always wins you the game and is therefore always worth taking at any price. (On the other extreme, a model that did literally nothing would never be worth taking even for 1 point.)

>> No.9087050

>>9086957
Mephiston's codex entry doesn't say "Squad: 2-10" though, does it? Matt Ward's faggotry aside, heroic named characters are meant to be powerful. Your Troops choice infantry SHOULDN'T have the same kind of stats, though.

>> No.9087052

knowing the points sytem games workshop use for stats would be helpful right now.

>> No.9087055

>Plasma cannon
>Heavy 1, Gets Hot!

What, no Blast?

>> No.9087058

>>9087019
This. Custodes are not that powerful.

>> No.9087091

>>9087055

Did I miss that part of the weapon's description from the SM codex?

>> No.9087101

>>9087091
Yes. Yes, you did.

>> No.9087102

>>9087091
Yea you might wanna put the cost for each Custodes invidually down as well.

>> No.9087115

>>9087101

Let me amend that.

>>9087102

Got a specific cost in mind?

>> No.9087225

The HQ shouldn't be a Sergeant, it should be a Captain. Likewise, the Sisters of Silence should have an HQ choice.

Also, do the Custodes get Librarians/Chaplains?

Downgrade the Guardian Spear; give it a Storm Bolter instead, and make it a two-handed power weapon. Likewise, the Custodes have ridiculous stats; an army's basic troops choice should not have 3 Wounds, Toughness 5, and a 3+/4++ save.

The Sisters of Silence should also be downgraded; give them 1 Wound each. Reduce WS to 3, BS to 4. Reduce Points cost, too.

I've got so many fucking complaints about this codex. I know they're supposed to be the best of the best, but when your basic troops are tougher than most armies' HQ choices? Come on.

>> No.9087380

>>9087225
Why shouldn't they have 3 wounds? Each basic custodes is meant to be more powerful than a space marine chapter master.

>> No.9087477

>>9087380

And Dante is supposed to cleave Bloodthirsters in half, yet his statline is nowhere near that kind of power. Fluff hyperbole has no place in rules desing, hell, even Matt Ward (usually) remembers that.

>> No.9087543

>>9087477
Keep in mind that while they're at fluff-levels of power, they're priced to match.

>> No.9087750

>>9087543

150 point for a troop that is equivalent to a daemon prince of Tzeentch with fear aura and Feel No Pain? No, just no.

>> No.9087789

>>9087750

FNP has been tossed, and their stats have been modified in the downward direction since the OP.

>> No.9087869

>>9087750

>No Psychic Powers

That seems to be a rather significant part of what makes a Tzeentchian Daemon Prince good...

>> No.9087974

>>9087869

If they would come in squads and were troops, and get FNP for a total of 150 points, the psychic powers would not be missed.

>> No.9088000

>>9087058
Their Captain-General routinely defeated Primarchs in single combat.

>> No.9088016

>>9086909
This is the most accurate thing regarding 40k era Custodes in this thread.

So I'm taking it this army is HH?

>> No.9088043

>>9088000

And Ka'bandha killed hundreds of Blood Angels with a single swing in Collected Visions, and yet the Sanguinor killed him solo in the BA dex.

Therefore Matt Ward should have given the Sanguinor a statline of 10's.

>> No.9088071

>>9087974

What part of "Got rid of FNP" is difficult for you to understand?

>> No.9088076

>>9088043
Why would you use that name in an argument.

>> No.9088119

>>9088043

The difference between the OP and Ward seems to be that Goblin actually wants to run his shit by someone (Us) and try to get it priced accurately.

Well, that and he's not really writing (Read: Raping) fluff.

>> No.9088123

>>9088043
The point is that they are individually geno-adapted single-focus fighters more akin to Temple Assassins.

>> No.9088132

>>9088076

Because he wrote the Blood Angels Codex, of course.

And the point is perfectly valid. Over the top fluff does not translate to over the top rules.

>> No.9088151

>>9088132

If it's priced accordingly, why not?

>> No.9088206

>>9088132
Right it's more about the consideration that they are not a grand marching army capable of handling well organized forces, but should ruleswise reflect a strong ability to take down single "big hit" targets, and to reflect that in the rules.

>> No.9088213

>>9088151

The OP's original rules were not prized accordingly to the power of the units, the troops for example were in all ways superior to a Chapter Master with a Relic Blade, but cheaper and scoring. Can't comment on the incoming revision yet.

>> No.9088244

>>9088206
>>9088206

Any suggestions for how to represent this? It's still being worked on.

>> No.9088339

>>9088244
Well I mean I guess a critical question is how lore-heavy do you want this, and do you want this to be based off Horus Heresy era Custodes or "current" ones? Because they're one of the groups that heavily evolved over 10,000 years as their fundamental job went from marching around with the emperor as his oldest companions from when he reunited earth, to highly specialized investigator anti-assassin "protectors of terra" who apparently stopped wearing armor and dress all in black.

Shit, I mean I really like the old gold dudes. I might look to the way some of the way the old eldar armies used to be structured with tailored exarch abilities and an autarch who can draw on a lot of different styles of expertise.

That Captain-General who took down Primarchs wasnt necessarily like more super-duper, he was just an *excellent* duelist.

Maybe reviving or looking at the way the Black Templar's "Emperors Champion" worked would be a good way to go for an HQ or elite "Veteran Custodes Bodyguard" type.

>> No.9088358

>>9088244

I'd suggest that they get the ability to reroll hits and/or wounds against IC's.

>> No.9088378

>>9088339

Hmmm... The thing is, I sort of prefer the idea of an army of soldiers just below the Primarchs in power over the idea of... souped-up assassins.

>> No.9088432

>>9088378

I'm sorry, let me clarify:

I prefer that depiction of the Custodes to the assassin role they apparently currently fill.

>> No.9088470

>>9088378
Well right on; So it gets themed around Horus Heresy and Crusade era Custodes.

Where Space Marines were built and designed to conquer, these guys were designed to defend. Locations and high priority targets. So they should really be marching alongside a high ranking psyker VIP or something. That could give you your anti-psyker balance, having a normal one with them they "escort."

Also maybe some sort of bonus if they are engaged in combat against a solo or single-base model? Something that goes away if they're instead engaged by a unit.

(You could always field the Emperor. :D)

>> No.9088496

>>9088358
Yeah like these guys are constantly scanning for the biggest threat, the toughest dude on the field. Their weakness should really be that they overlook the little guys.

>> No.9088516

>>9088470
>>9088358

Hmm... I like the idea of bonuses when fighting ICs and the like.

That said, I'm not sure whether to have them as an ally-centric codex or not.

>> No.9088530

ASDFGHJK, keep forgetting my trip.

>> No.9088618

>>9088516
I didn't mean so much that it would be ally-centric, just that their HQ would have a non-custodes Psyker in it, fluffed as a "VIP" they escort.

>> No.9088759

couldnt we just make them watered down movie marine stats but without the stunt guy re-rolls? and maybe some changes to the wargear?

>> No.9088975

Since they are sacred defenders, what about an army-wide "Vigil" that they either select or roll for at the start of the battle. Such that they are then sworn to defend something, like a piece of the terrain, or an important document/item that the force-commander is holding.

Extra VP if they control/maintain it, some sort of bonus related to it.

>> No.9089469

Adeptus Custodes? Moar like, Adeptus Rapere

>>
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