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8866540 No.8866540 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Tell my /tg/, how would the Warhammer 40k MMO work with so many races, that all hate each other?

>> No.8866565


>> No.8866591

everyone is an inquisitor's henchman, like in DH

>> No.8866624

Probably like in WAR, where you pick races that have legitimate reasons to work together on the evil side (Orks, Chaos, and DEldar probably), and the ones that kill everyone (nids, crons) are only NPCs

>> No.8866631


Wouldn't that make PVP non-existent then?

>> No.8866653
File: 98 KB, 454x429, LCB_Kissu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Heresy everywhere.

>> No.8866661

because PvP has to be logical

>> No.8866672

you start off training as whatever henchman class you start with

join a guild (An Inquisitor's retinue), fight against/with other retinues on several planets


>> No.8866679

there could be like, arenas and shit. Gladiator style.

>> No.8866680

Someone find that penny-arcade comic that basically says what it boils down to.

I think they could make it work, but they would have to jump up the fluff timeline, maybe actually bringing the main Tyranid hive fleet in, and or having something go really wrong in Cadia to make Chaos a bigger threat.

They would need something to be a big enough threat to make the races work together, because as it is right now, they won't.

Although I don't really see Orks workin wit nobody eva.

>> No.8866688
File: 99 KB, 750x376, 20070305.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not very well at all.

>> No.8866707


I could see this, and orks have worked with chaos in the past(Dawn of war: WA, I believe.. I could be wrong though, since I only played IG for the single player)

>> No.8866737

they could do some interesting things with an MMO in the WH40k universe. Instead of solo grindan, questan and raidan like in WoW and its clones, maybe a WH40k MMO could be some kind of big PvP thing. Like you have a planet where the Imperium (SM, IG etc.) is fighting Chaos, a planet for something else, hell, a planet for everything.

I have no thought about this a lot, but do you get what I mean?

>> No.8866754

Simple, only make SPESS MEHRENS, Elfdar, Orks and Chaos Space Marines playable. Maybe Tau or Dark Eldar could work too, but mostly the 4 core races. I can't see Imperial Guard being playable due to them being fucking weak when compared to everybody else, and Necrons and Tyranids just don't fit as playable races.

>> No.8866761

Oh yeah, I forgot necrons. They could start wakin up faster. That could also be part of the threat.
But I know that unless the new codex does massive fluff change (more than is expected) you could never have them be PC's I also can't see Tyranids being PC's either.

>> No.8866773

>Although I don't really see Orks workin wit nobody eva.
Orks might cooperate if they're offered a really good fight.

Just like how Eldar can manipulate by promising them a chance to "fight dem proper hard humie boyz".

>> No.8866791

Just make it dark heresy online.

>> No.8866794

haha, it's funny because it's true. . .

Oh fuck I honestly just thought that.
I need sleep.

>> No.8866863


It won't.

The developers will either butcher the universe for the sake of making an MMO, or have to work a damn good excuse into the storyline for differing races to work together.

and that's just the start of theri problems.

>> No.8866873

Unfortunately for most of us, the 40K MMO is going with the traditional beaten to death MMORPG format that we are all too familiar with. It's going to be along the lines of Warhammer Online or World of Warcraft.

I really hoped they would try to go with the less obvious but much more interesting choices, i.e. Dark Heresy or Necromunda. It's hard to make an MMORPG based on the tabletop game without fucking up the "vibe" of Warhammer. If they wanted to use the tabletop game, they should've made an MMOFPS instead.

>> No.8866985

like this but with more sides

>> No.8867017

You will only play as the Imperium of Man, duh.

>> No.8867167


I fucking wish they would do it like Planetside. It fits the game perfectly; a combined assault of vehicles and infantry with 200+ combatants on each side.

>> No.8867523

Yea with big neon pauldrons and 2004 graphics. Also simultaneous release on xbox360 and ps3.

>> No.8867607

If I was making it, you would play exclusively as either Space Marines or Chaos Marines. You would pick your chapter as the equivalent of your race and your role in that chapter as your class.

Everything else would be NPC's. Marines vs Chaos Marines, I think, is the only conflict which you can delve the deepest into in an MMO, considering the possible betrayals/misconceptions/temptations available.

This would displease a lot of people who have fan-favorite races, but from a writing and a gameplay standpoint, it really seems to be the best and most capable option.

>> No.8867677

Provided they made the environment more exciting than WoW and actually made a fucking attempt at being more interesting than WAR I'd sub for a couple months.

>> No.8867743


Personally I think Marines Eldar Tau all can work as playable races. Imp guard maaaaaybe. But like a previous post said, I just can't work out how you could justify a PC guard with PC marines

If you decide to have an "evil" side, well eviler, you have Dark Eldar, Chaos SM.... maybe orks, but like I said earlier I can't see them being all that cooperative, at least not for long.

No PC tyranids or necrons

>> No.8867767


Either that, Or a Tactical FPS with Squad Elements based on the Adeptus Arbites.

>> No.8867797
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Eldar work as mercs sometimes

or they're in adventuring parties and wander around without killing everyone sometimes.

I dunno about orks. Do orks sometimes just go off on their own in small groups, lone individuals?

>> No.8867823


Orky Freebootaz. Kommandoz. Madboyz. Outkastz.

>> No.8867883

I figure what you'd have to do is make the PC's not affiliated with the 40k factions/armies, so no Imperial Guardsmen and Space Marines

Inquisitorial agents and Rogue traders and their crew are more flexible though.

I'd like to see the power levels preserved though. There's really nothing that makes orks or eldar inferior to a human 1on1, but I just know they're gonna D&D'em into -2 con and -2int shit.

>> No.8867901

No cooperation between races.

Imperium vs. Chaos only.

Inquisition and Alpha Legion operatives secretly battling each other, directly or indirectly, throughout the subsector.

>> No.8867904

necrons would undoubtedly be a expansion

i guarantee they would give it a retarded name like "Necrons Rising"

>> No.8867909


Yeah, I can just imagine any developer making a 40k mmo in which you can't play spess mehreens.

>> No.8867914


A 40k MMO w/o Space Marines will never ever happen.

Hell even DH is gettin em.

>> No.8867959

Playable "light side" positions.
Imperium: Guardsman. Specialisation trees range from HWTs to vehicle pilot. Immensely wealthy players may become assassins or inquisitors, though these classes are nominally quest-giving NPCs or battlefield objectives.

Eldar: Guardian. Specialisation trees; 2 close combat trees ( scorpions or banshees ), two ranged specs ( avengers or dark reapers ), two fast trees ( warpspiders or jetbike/vypers ). players who remain guardians to a certain level may specialise in heavy platforms ie falcons, warwalkers or fireprisms. Harlequins, firedragons and other "gimmick" classes remain as NPCs or temporary classes purchasable for significant funds.

Tau; firewarriors/kroot. Specialisation trees imtoofuckinglazytotypeanymore.

>> No.8867986

Inquisitors fight other Inquisitors all the time dude.

Radicals Vs Puritans (HERESY vs WEAK MINDED FOOL)

>> No.8867996

As stated earlier I imagine it would play like Planetside. There's a planet, you invade it, you fight over it, you force them off, they come back. There would also be non-pvp areas like being a rogue trader or something. I imagine the game moderators and administrators are going to be the Inquisition.

>> No.8867997
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>>8867914A 40k MMO w/o Space Marines will never ever happen.


so I thought, if it's gonna hurt canon...

and what alternate setting? ROGUE TRADER

>> No.8868000

Personally I think it'd work best as a squad-based game somewhat similar to Guild Wars. Players would be an IG Commissar, an Inquisitor with a smaller personal retinue, a Nob, a Shas'ui or an Imperial Assassin of some kind. Maybe a semi-successful Rogue Trader crew could be an option too, as well as a Mechanicum detachment. Eldar would be a possibility in VERY small squads I suppose, but they might be pretty overpowered. Dark Eldar, CSM, Spess Mehreens, Nids, SoB etc would be unplayable but present in the story (perhaps as "elite" or bosslike creatures, present in PvP, etc). Of course since this leans heavily on Imperial PCs since there's just so much more diversity and balance, you'd have to balance it out by promoting a feeling of distrust between the branches of the Imperial players. An Inquisitor might hire or conscript a Commissar player, but they wouldn't help each other normally, and likewise those players may find themselves pitted in battle against tech-priests. With each "class" would come benefits and drawbacks, such as Inquisitorial retinues having access to better equipment or tougher troops, but not having as many as a Commissar's squad. That said, it'd be insanely hard to balance a game with this structure, so people would bitch like crazy. This game would never work as an MMO since they have to have such mainstream appeal, but fuck I'd like to play it.

>> No.8868107

I always imagined it being the most fun as a single squad controlled game, where the wholesale tactics of many people with squads/platoons/units work together to achieve warzones.

I also run around when people aren't looking and making shooting sounds.

>> No.8868124

well, don't get me wrong i love guild wars, but i don't think gw style play would work for 40k. in 40k there's so many different factions with so many plans and motives. in gw everyone plays as a human so it makes sense that everyone would be on the same side, not so much for 40k

>> No.8868162


You're missing what I'm saying. The squad-based aspect would be reminiscent of Guild Wars, but there would be nearly no player-to-player cooperation unless compensation was involved. Unless you're playing a low-ranking footslogging IG Commissar you'll never really HAVE to work with anyone but your own, and a lot of the time interadeptus tension will put you in a position where you have the option to fight other Imperials.

>> No.8868176

everyone starts out as an imperial guardsman, working their way up until they reach max level, at which point they unlock space marine. this would be a lot like unlocking jedi in star wars galaxies, it would take fucking forever, but you'd be unstoppable once you had it

>> No.8868352


Then people either:

- Complain about how much you have to grind to unlock Space Marine, and how nobody has a chance against the neckbeards who have enough free time to unlock them

- Complain about how everyone and his mom is a Space Marine and it should be harder to unlock.

>> No.8868381

40k shouldn't be an MMO

it should be an RPG made by Square-Enix (look at what they did with Mario)

or a brawler by Capcom (WELCOME TO THE 40k WORLD)

>> No.8868389

OBVIOUISLY no one played MMOs before Blizzards LAWL TWO SIDES thing.

>> No.8868416

Well the imperium, tau and eldar COULD work together if they weren't so stupid, naive and treacherous respectively.

>> No.8868425

> or a brawler by Capcom (WELCOME TO THE 40k WORLD)


>> No.8868430

What the 40k MMO SHOULD do is not be one game, but a UNIVERSE.

There should be an RTS MMO of 40k Where the elite command the people who play the FPS MMO, then those two games interact with the Denxians of the planets they inhabit who play the RPGMMO


>> No.8868433

regarding the planetside thing:
space marines would have a longer respawn timer, whereas a guardsman or gaunt would basically come back immediately

>> No.8868455


I command the whole company to run in front of a Chaos Titan.

>> No.8868474

They all fight each other? Doesn't have to be two sides. Have a battle between two forces, all of a sudden a third shows up and tactics are forced to change to handle the new threat.

>> No.8868537

Think Planetside, except with tons and tons of planets. Only a couple of races on each planet have outposts and are fighting. Players should be able to team up with huge raiding parties to make outposts on other worlds to join in fighting. Occasionally have a battle barge bomb each planet for more destruction.

>> No.8868541

So... craftworld vs craftworld? Chapter vs chapter? Regiment vs regiment?

remember kiddies sort out what KIND OF GAME you're making first, THEN sort out HOW you're going to do it.

>> No.8868587

release the games on all consoles all platforms and they ALL interact with eachotehr.

Then the overworld is sut up like it is in 40k with the tau off in bumfuckistan with the nids eating the shit out of them, Chaos concentrating on the western front, eldar.. well they are everywhere they are... and orkz... shit.... Necrons...hrmmm

On top of all this, on top of ALL the games, all interactions, all events

Its cannon!

>> No.8868595

I'm not entirely sure of what you just said.

Cool beans!

>> No.8868671

they should make it like a planetside type game set during the 13th black crusade. nids and necrons, SM and CSM should be npc. you can be an ork, eldar, tau, IG or traitor IG, fuck DE. it should be like large scale battles were quests are battlefield objectives that you need to use teamwork and skill to capture.

it should be tough I hate the current batch of MMOs your like getting blasted by hundreds of guys while you run your macros shit is stupid. make it hard make it so you die but make it some that gear is nothing, when you level up you unlock new gear that you can get at any base.

>> No.8868700

Given the choice. I wana be Cadian. Not even a Karskin.. a fucking regular ass trooper, and yet STILL be better than any other regimental trooper!

>> No.8868746

the IG and traitor IG should be weaker then all the ork, eldar and tau but they have the SM and CSM npc help that can be tied into like levels so you can gain like ability to call in SM's from drop pods and shit. make it soo the battles are both NPC and PC...soo that they are really huge and you never get the situation you got with planetside when people would stop defending things because there wasn't enough exp in it.

>> No.8868788

Remove leveling altogetehr

remove experience all together.

Just make the game WAR and endless amounts of WAR

>> No.8868867

well level would be like ranks and then you can get better stuff go from a whiteshield to a stormtrooper to a general, sort of like that not really but you get the idea...

and with each rank you gain new gear and abilities.

>> No.8869016

bump i like this thread dont let it die

>> No.8869026

This isn't a bad idea, considering that WAR's most popular game-state is levels 1-11. Maxing your level out doesn't mean the game becomes less fun.

>> No.8869047



>> No.8869111

I just had this thought but it's very much a matter of 'same shit, different smell'.

Make ranks a matter of internal promotion within the player guilds, where guild taxes are used to buy weapons for stockpile within the guild bank. Therefore, someone playing a Cadian who specialises heavily in shortranged combat would be -considered- a kasrkin, even though there is not official class for it, and would be given access to gear appropriate for his specialty.

This will help to keep people from over-generalising, as well as keeping canonical rank/class systems in check, ie that not everyone can be a firedragon because a) the gear is expensive, and b) they have limitations that must be accounted for elsewhere.

Game is totally freeform, no blizzard-WAR factions, just guilds fighting for glory. 40k-EVE for thought.

>> No.8869179


>> No.8869190

I want to play fucking Kroot and get racial based "genetics" slot loot for eating bitches.

>> No.8869246

this could work coupled with this:
(albeit more fleshed out)
and some way to balance Spess Mehreens; and the planetstrike ideas (balances Marines, yea they rape face when a drop-pod lands, but then they get zerg'd and dont come back for 5 or 6 minuites (give them shit to do on their ship though, no 5 min. thumbtwiddling while looking at your pretty power-armored corpse)

>> No.8869253


Eh, people would be disappointed that they couldn't play Spess Mreens and it wouldn't sell.

You can however have an MMO with more than two opposed factions. I can't see a major problem, in theory, with dividing everyone a bit more than that. It would hamper traditional MMO gameplay forms like dungeon grouping, but I think the future of the genre is going to moving away from that or at least interpreting it differently such that you don't need the whole tank/dps/healer setup.

It would certainly make pvp a lot more interesting.

>> No.8869433

could work. when you activeate your account you tell when you'll be most active, how competitive/active you'll be, language and race. You then get thrown into a guild (have mods/admins running them to try and keep things fair, at least in the begining) Your guild decides where/who it will fight, grants you gear and ammo access, and can boot you (to another guild with the same criteria) if you just dont fit. Marines are limited by guild caps: a guild is a Strike Force, which is part of a Company, which is part of a chapter. better gear means that your smaller guild is on par with larger ones, but without skill you wont be able to overcome odds much better than 2 or three to one. guild auto-assigning will ensure this is common, and whoever pulls the strings for your guilds deployment area will ensure it is likely.

>> No.8869469

Why do you need space marines? It would be like allowing players to be daemons when playing the Chaos faction. If anything, just allow players to do like >>8869111
said and allow players to purchase 'high level' gear like this, but only for very significant funds.

Balancing the chaos faction is probably harder than balancing the Imperial side though, as nominally you're either one flavour of cultist/petty sorceror, or you're a beastman or some mutated bastard in chaos armour.

The answer is simply to make SM and CSM as NPC factions that you can buy armour/weapons from.

One thing this will do is keep high-value players in high-value gear, fighting high-risk battles on high-priority targets. Thusly the game becomes somewhat self-balancing as the greatest concentration of good-geared people flock to the same place, *particularly* if you make death when wearing this kind of gear meaning you lose the armour, which the opposing faction can take and melt-down/sell.

>> No.8869504

the 40k MMO should be like dark heresy on the computer, nothing but humans either working as cultists or for the inquisition

>> No.8869526


Because if you want to have mass appeal, it sadly needs Space Marines.

I'm no Marine fanboy (Ork player in fact) but I have to accept the reality that Marines' alleged awesomeness is responsible for the game's success in a lot of ways.

Hell a lot of people I know who actively play 40K wouldn't be into playing an Inquisitorial henchman. People would want the races that we see in tabletop and Dawn of War.

>> No.8869534

They should really cancel the ememoh and instead make MAG 40k. You know you all agree.

>> No.8869605

The whole 2 or 3 united factions thing is fucking retarded.

Developers, especially the WH40K MMO developers need to avoid that mindset.

Divide the game universe into territories. Have many factions where who you can be allied with is based entirely where you are in the game Universe.

Eldar are never going to let IG people walk around their craftworld, but they sure as shit are going to team up when their Farseer sees it as a necessary action.

IG is going to hate the Xenos, until the Commisar gets orders that, "Hey. Shit just got real, we're going to team up with the Tau, common goal and all, during this Ork invasion."

The WH40K universe is very fucking flexible, and cases where factions are absolutely opposed is limited to a few distinctions; e.g. Imperium v. Chaos, Dark Eldar v Everyone, Eldar v Chaos and Dark Eldar.

Being stuck in the insipid idea of just 2-3 factions is fuck dumb with most game universes, much less WH40K.

>> No.8869687

Mass appeal only works when the game conforms to expectation of the greatest number of people.

The same people who prove again and again that if they want WoW they will play WoW. So what should developers be doing? They should be starting small, and working up.

Think about EVE, it's an old game, but I had never even heard of it until a year ago because it was too small until then.

>> No.8869705

If it were an MMO i'd like to see Squad development opposed to commander only development (aka each player roams around with 2-3 other units which are either Vanilla NPCs or Whos stats scale with yours based on their weapon/class choices)

>> No.8869734

Game should toss out leveling and opt for a more DoW2 Last Stand approach to powering up your character. Instead of upgrading from a +1 lasgun to a +2 lasgun, make it something like you're a guardsman with a Lasgun as your default weapon. Upon clearing some of the quests in an area, you're allowed to now wield your choice of a sniper rifle, flamer, or grenade launcher. More quests will allow you to unlock stuff you don't have yet. The new weapons don't provide linear stat bonus, but instead change up your playstyle. Later, more difficult quest lines can get you things like sentinel/leman russ licences to pilot in PvP.

Also, make PvP similar to tabletop. Compare a guardsman to a space marine and no matter how you slice it, the guardsman just isn't as strong as an SM. So, assign all classes/wargear a points cost like the tabletop. Sides are balanced based on those numbers, so IG armies will field many more troops compared to a Chaos Space Marine army. Make the "raids" have the same kind of point limits, which encourages guilds to work with what players they have and spread out gear how they think it will help the most.

>> No.8869743

all sides.
free for all.
over resources.
Orks, Imperium, Tau, Eldar.
Orks = Melee
Imp. = Armor
Tau = Range science guns
Eldar = Speed

>> No.8869769

Fuck levels, fuck exp, fuck classes.

Live a Space Marine Die a Space Marine.

>> No.8869789

Actually, I'd totally want to play that. There's going to have to be some way you can make a character into an acolyte in game, or maybe start off allied with a faction or something. It would be fun.

>> No.8869793

Planetside is the only popular choice.

Fuck you SoE for killing the game.

>> No.8869841

why do the races have to work together? it can just be a more PvP oriented MMO, with the races fighting each other like they're supposed to.

>> No.8870310

The problem with having each race be a separate faction is that it would be damn near impossible to set things up so that you can play with your friends. With a smaller number of sides, there's a greater chance of finding races you enjoy playing instead of being forced to play freakin' SPESS MAHRINES (or Tau, or Orks, or whatever) because you got out-voted.

That's why I like the "Everybody works for the Inquisition" idea. Inquisitors get to work outside the normal rules, and it provides some glorious excuses for PvP due to doctrinal differences and different types of radicalism. Fellow inquisitor using Daemonhosts!? Diabolus Extremus! Someone is working with the foul Eldar!? Xeno Heresy!

>> No.8870855

Or just have it established like in >>8869111
and >>8869469

Everyone has their own guild, you're basically part of some rogue-trader/outlaw 'faction'. Rogue traders being on good terms with the Imperium, thus allowing oversights like having Tau and Eldar crew members to be ignored..

and the outlaw/pirate 'faction', who are not friendly to imperials, and by extension are going to be at war with them.

Think about it. Immediately you establish the concepts of player-run guilds, an overall pvp theatre as well as justifying people having their own motivations seperate to the major racial divides. Guardsmen can return to Cadia for specific training as allowed by their funds, Eldars can return to craftworld X (presumably Alaitoc) to specialise as aspect warriors..

and for the pirates/renegades, they get to return to chaos worlds/rokz/cammoragh/whatever for their equivalent.

Out in the open world though, these players are still mortal enemies to everyone not in their guild, and for pirate forces at least, their towns will have little in the way of guards to prevent in-city PKing, which will suit people of the whole "chaos" mentality quite well.

>> No.8871050

I am the biggest 40k fanboy going around the block but I think a 40k MMO is not a good idea. For starters we, the biggest 40k nerds on the internet, have had threads like this for the past year now and cannot come up with a way this game could work. That isn't a good sign to start of with. Second, they are going to make the stupid events that happen in the game cannon. They will progress the story, and not in the good thought out way that would come from someone like Chambers. No. It will be in the stupid, childish way someone like Matt Ward would do it

>> No.8871100

Same way Lineage II works. Lots of different people/clans, who all hate eachother.


>> No.8871465

>>8871050 have had threads like this for the past year now and cannot come up with a way this game could work. That isn't a good sign to start of with.

Yea, but there are some choice ones in this thread. The success or failure of the game will predominantly come down to the gameplay. If there's a runofthemill leveling scheme in place I might just skip it. I have better things to *waste* my money on.

>> No.8871504

40k MMO

>Uh-oh guys the Golden Throne is getting raided by Chaos again

>Again? Thats like the 5th time this week

>> No.8871522


effing lol

>> No.8871545

40 teenagers with an endless supply of time and mountain dew could accomplish what the Warmaster Horus and the Legions of Chaos Could not

feels bad man

>> No.8871630
File: 4 KB, 124x124, Firewarrior.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

My main concern is that they're gonna screw up the cannon... Like, the flexibility of the 40k universe is that it's in a galaxy where there are a crap-ton of planets, so there's essentially areas of space that they can do whatever they want with and nobody will mind.

But you know they'd never stick with that. Who wants to play on "Generic Unknown World V" when there's Terra and the Craftworlds?

Basically, unless they keep the overall campaign localized, like they did with the DoW games, they're going to run into problems when it comes down to even basic things like geography.

>> No.8871661

Well no they probably couldn't. Provided you used the roguetrader/guild system that has been proposed in this thread already, they will never amount enough power to take on the Imperium in a meaningful capacity, or ascend to daemonhood.

>> No.8871684

What kind of Loot would the Emperor drop anyway?

Colostomy bag of Holy Fury?

>> No.8871708

>>8871630 Terra

Nigger are you mad? There's no way that could happen.

A burnt out craftworld maybe. There's at least one or two of them.

The brilliance about 40k over WFB is that ANYTHING conceivable is possible. High tech imperial forces, barbarians, magical monster bs, fighting on a lava planet. It's all justifiable within the context of the universe and its setting.

>> No.8871717


They fucked up the canon for Warhammer, what makes you think they aren't going to fuck it up with 40k?

>> No.8871726

That sounds like it could work but what about chaos?

>> No.8871727

at the risk of feeding a troll

>implying Games workshop makes any attempt to maintain their own cannon

>> No.8871862


damn. A necromunda mmo could be amazing

>> No.8871915

ITT: people don't know how to spell fucking CANON.

>> No.8871996
File: 100 KB, 800x600, khorne.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.8872005


>> No.8872058

ITT: People who seriously give a shit about grammar on the internets.

>> No.8872064

Make the IG able to pilot vehicles and other 'soft' skills.

Boom, instant equalization and integration.

>> No.8872071

Wait until E3 to see what they are going to do

>> No.8872599

Two thoughts: one why does there only get to be 2 sides? Can pvpx4 exist? I'd love to see a 4 sided koth.

Also imp guard could be a pile of 5 soilders each one going down at 20% markers. I'd love to move 5 super effecint guys who move as one finely tuned machine

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