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/tg/ - Traditional Games

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[ERROR] No.8779448 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>> No.8779480

/tg/ is approved by Barack Obama now.

>> No.8779492

Good news: We are approved by Barack Obama.
Bad news: Republicans are going to go crazy on us from now on.

>> No.8779502

That's a pretty awesome signature. I wish my handwriting was as cool as that.

>> No.8779513

/tg/ kills babies! /tg/ is socialism!! /tg/ is fascism!!!!

>> No.8779517

So... nothing's changed, then?

>> No.8779526

He can't draw a 'O'.

>> No.8779538

cool shizz.

anyone seen our resident drawfags on today?

>> No.8779549

I have actually had a friend, who when I tried to speak to about politics, he blurted out "DEMOCRATS ARE BABY KILLERS!"

The guy is mentally handicapped, and not in an 'i have aspergers i dont have to be a functional member of society', no, he's that too. This guy has been THAT GUY of our group for a while. I didn't hold it against him, I know he had his beliefs crammed down his throat by his overprotective super conservative parents, but it still caused an aneurysm. I have then never spoken politics with him again.
Agreed. Our President is almost as cool as Putin.

>> No.8779552

What for ?

>> No.8779558

Guy on the right: /tg/

>> No.8779559

Hail comrade Stalin!

>> No.8779560

Fuck, I just realized that Barry writes his name in the exact same font I do, giant first letters and everything


>> No.8779569

I think it's that O that surrounds the b, it's a cool effect.

>> No.8779609

let's not get ahead of ourselves now.

>> No.8779630

Damn right.

>> No.8779635

>Agreed. Our President is almost as cool as Putin.

Britfag here. I am jealous of your President. We've got a choice between the most boring man in the world, a slimy, untrustworthy git, and someone who might as well not exist. What a choice.

>> No.8779638

Unrelated trolling reported.

>> No.8779642


Once the Revolution begins, I don't think Putin will object too much to the statement

I look forward to future relations between our two nations

>> No.8779645

My name doesn't allow for a sweet signature.
I'm jealous of Obama.

>> No.8779649


>> No.8779650

Good to hear comrade!

>> No.8779662


>> No.8779668

The Lib Dem guy is an atheist, which is unique.

Otherwise they're all pretty unmemorable.

>> No.8779670

Health Care bill in summary.

It is low illegal to living w/o health insurance. This is like driving w/o insurance.

The government has restricted what people can charge for health insurance, and is helping to pay for it via tax deductions and direct payments.

At the last minute the bill was changed to cause abortions to not be included in the bill (lets face it, Americans can't handle THAT much change that quickly).

End result? - Health care is no longer a choice, you have less overall freedom. Is this a bad thing? god damn it no. Is it awesome? no, but its a step in the right direction. They're still decades behind Canada's health care system.

>> No.8779680

Seconded. I'd like to know where >>8779642 got that picture as well. 'Tis badass.

>> No.8779688

what does obama approving /tg/ have to do with healthcare?

>> No.8779692

>illegal to live without life insurance
Uh oh.
dont repot me guise ;(

>> No.8779707


Unfortunately, I have not the slightest idea where the pic came from

>> No.8779722

rolled 12 = 12


That's the exact opposite of what I thought.
It looks like a child's signature to me.

(My signature sucks ball too, actually ;_; )

>> No.8780509

>> No.8780543


he wrote it with 20 different pens so he could give them away afterwards.

>> No.8780545

I wouldn't say we're 'behind' Canada's health care, overall. True, for minor stuff (broken bones, emergency room visits, pain medication, flu shots and vaccines) Canada far outstrips America in care. For anything more significant than a 'boo-boo', America is the place to get treatment. Hundreds, if not thousands, of Canadians travel south to America every year for heart transplants, liver transplants, cancer treatments, and a host of other medical procedures at which American doctors are the best in the world. If you need a major surgery, you come to America. That's just the way it is.

>> No.8780589

to be honest, in australia i am just automatically covered for everything usefull. the american scheme is neccesary, but lol complicated. Be more like australia.

>> No.8780615

>Be more like australia.

wash your mouth out, scum. america may be shit but it's nothing like the level of shit that australia is.

>> No.8780616

Unless you are form America and poor. Then you go to Mexico.

>> No.8780634

I actually don't mind the whole "you have to own health insurance" thing. I really don't like the idea of my medical bills being inflated because some 20something year old idiot thought it would be cool to go skate boarding down a flight of stairs, tripped, fell, and broke every bone in his damn body.... and thought getting health insurance was a waste of cash, and was submitting to 'the man'.

The best thing ever is the 10% tax on tanning beds.. thats fucking core. If you want to give yourself melanoma, you gotta pay bitch!

>> No.8780651

>Although much attention has been given to the growing trend of uninsured Americans traveling to foreign countries, a McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that a plurality of an estimated 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care; the same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists traveled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).

>> No.8780662


>be more like australia

You mean hopelessly censored?

>> No.8780673

And before anyone cries about "don't tax me, bro!"

people who don't pay taxes should be exempt from the benefits of said taxes.

Enjoy life without...
Interstate highways
Military Protection
Medicare and Medicaid
Fire Departments
the list goes on.

If your worried about your Cadillac health insurance getting taxed, ask your employer why he gave himself a five or six figure raise last month instead of paying for the tax.

>> No.8780692

sure, keep on thinking that. I will simply remain living in a country that has free good secular education, where sciences may be taught in full, have my free medical care (which i use a might too regularly) and enjoy my interesting but not fucked up politics, and enjoy the images in my head of rudd and abbot getting in a punch up in parliament.

>> No.8780711

the censorship still hasnt gotten through parliament. its a joke, and will probably never pass.

>> No.8780716



>> No.8780722

Um.. can i come live in Australia too? these people are fucking crazy.

>> No.8780731


>> No.8780741

All this does is really demonstrate the ideological chasm between Europe and the States. Despite the superficial similarities, good god if you came out without some of the 'arguments' used by those against the health care bill, you'd be looked at like you'd just admitted to murdering babies and worshippings satan.

The idea that you can have a healthcare system run for private profit and that some need to suffer so they lucky few can enjoy the benefits. It's actually abhorent.

>> No.8780745


>> No.8780746

of that study is th eone I think is-they failed to factor in one thing

that all these medical tourisms are ONLY booked trough americ

so whereas 750,000 MAY have taken these tourist trips,(there is some debate as to if 750k were available and not all the slots were accually filled) there is no accounting on where the country of the person's origin is...so there could be many people who come to america to first to then nook the trip

the more ya know

>> No.8780761


This. Crossing my fingers I get into the grad school in Canada.

>> No.8780764


I hate to be reduced to a bathering fool right about now... but... SAAAUCE? This screams "set" all over it.

>> No.8780823

Damn, I wish I was a citizen of any other first world country. Instead I live in the states. Shitsux, not as bad as living in some third world countries, but not THAT much better.

>> No.8780882

I have no problem with this. I think the first punishment for tax evasion should be a revocation of citizenship and all the benefits thereof. If they don't want to pay for the benefits, they don't get them.

>> No.8781067

At least you don't have Harry Potter for prime minister.

>> No.8781235


And you'll get Hitler v2 next.

>> No.8781247

Seconded. Sauce plox and all that.

>> No.8781248

> saying anyone can be anywhere near as cool as Putin
BLASPHEMER! Slay him for slandering the name teh Putin.

Goes to SPETZNAZ camp for vacation:
Obama [ ] Putin [x]
Shoots large dangerous animals:
Obama [ ] Putin [x]
Promotes capitalism:
Obama [ ] Putin [x]
Has a country that's becoming socialist:
Obama [x] Putin [ ]
Said they can take our nukes from our cold irradiated fingers:
Obama [ ] Putin [x]
Gave the finger to the UN:
Obama [ ] Putin [x]
Is a mans man:
Obama [ ] Putin [x]
Is black:
Obama [x] Putin [ ]

>> No.8781279


Can you imagine how we feel? We got some former socialist spy thingy.

>> No.8781336

Hey guys remember that whole Copenhagen deal with the environment shit? Or the Olympics deal?

Copenhagen is the capital of a socialist country. And even with its small size its so great that it is chosen as host for these important events.

Imagine how great America would be if it had the same system as that country.

>> No.8781362


Everything but the following is not the concern of the federal Government:
Military Protection

All other matters are for states/cities to worry about.

Also, listing both Schools & Education is redundant


Yes because Canada is known for their great health-care. You know where every one can go to the doctor for every sniffle and cough, but if you want an operation or long term care, you go to the US. Now we'll all have to go to Cuba for descent medical care. Strange yea, going there, but they run their medical community like business. A government run business, but a business never-the-less

>> No.8781375

They should sell tickets for those protests. I would even bring my own armour and baton.

>> No.8781386

At least their people is politically active.

>> No.8781397

Canada did have an awesome system once, they've just slowly gutted it over the decades : (

>> No.8781410


Politically active isn't necessarily a good thing. A baying and ignorant mob is still a mob, even if it has good intentions.

>> No.8781412

>Health care is no longer a choice, you have less overall freedom. Is this a bad thing?

That is how it starts you see, you give up something small, and then something else, it's not going to be a dramatic soldiers kicking in doors take over. No it's going to be freedoms plucked away, one at a time, while mindless sycophants keep saying it's a good thing.

>> No.8781413

>> No.8781432

Oh yea, the 'socialism hasn't had a fair chance' or 'but we'll do it right' argument.

Putting the power in the hands of a few corrupts the few and weakens the rest. When Russia knows this better than the United States I begin to worry.

>> No.8781435

Being from DK, I can vouch that a lot of these guys are just looking for an excuse to dig up the road and toss the chunks at the police.

>> No.8781442

Robert Heinlein? You live still?

Well I'll be damned.

>> No.8781444

According to our (US) own founding fathers there should have been a revolution or three by now. Violence is the wind of change.

>> No.8781455

If you wanna be a socialist, then go be one somewhere else. We won the Cold War, and were not going to become the very thing we beat.

>> No.8781460

You do realize that socialism is prevalent in some countries which are already very successful right? Countries where their people aren't oppressed.

>> No.8781472

>implying you don't understand the difference between socialism and communism

>> No.8781474

What was the Civil War then?

>> No.8781475

Where I live the police shot a guy in the back while he was handcuffed in front of a crowd of people with video cameras.

Every single member of the police department testified that he was a great guy and didn't mean to do it and the guy deserved to be shot. This involved telling a fake version of what happened, in court. They all told the same story. The police conspired to lie under oath in a god damn murder trial, and as far as I know no police have opposed this.


>> No.8781479

Extremists will always make the group they belong to look worse than they are. Really the groups weren't that bad its as always just a vocal minority.

Oh and Greenpeace, fuck those faggots.

>> No.8781483

I'm so honest, you can trust me.
Your foster children, I won't molest them.

>> No.8781487


FFS, having state mandated healthcare isn't socialism. No more that your fucking post office or having a military or the FBI is socialist. Fuck, you don't even have a public option or a single payer system under this bill. This isn't socialism at all you ignorant cretin.

It's protecting the american people from their own stupidity, selfishness and brainswashed imbecility.

>> No.8781488

Wait where do you live? Soviet Russia?

>> No.8781495

Socialism doesn't necessarily mean outright violence/oppression. It means freedom curtailed. Sure the chains might be padded and light, even engraved with gold, but they're still chains.

>> No.8781497

If you're gonna mock me then at least do it subtly so I won't be able to call you out on the account that you are a fucking retard.

>> No.8781500

That was America, asswipe.

>> No.8781501

A good start.

>> No.8781506

Oh so you're an Anarchist? Because that's the only true "free" system.

>> No.8781509

Bay area. Berkeley specifically, the guy got shot on the BART between San Francisco and Oakland.

>> No.8781512

I'll bet, in Russia there wouldn't have been a court case for it.

>> No.8781513

Doesn't realize what 'freedom' means in a society.

>> No.8781537

>Implying Canadians aren't free and don't have a law that lets the Crown strip us of all our rights.

Totalitarianism requires both intent and compliance, you tool. That's why Canadians have "privileges" instead of rights, still have the War Measures Act which strips those priveleges, and are still technically ruled by a monarch but aren't toiling under an oppressive yoke.

>> No.8781540

>It's protecting the american people from their own stupidity, selfishness and brainswashed imbecility.

that's where it starts, then you find one day its illegal to not have insurance.

>> No.8781544


Most people don't deserve to have the freedoms that Americans do.

>> No.8781545

In Russia the cops aren't stupid enough to do this in front of media.

>> No.8781546

Ah the rewording troll fag, always rears it's ugly ass-face when it feels mentally challenged.

>> No.8781547

Americans didn't so much win the cold war as much as Russia lost it. Their economic collapse and our subsequent response was equivalent to having a boxer have a stroke while his opponent does victory laps. America cannot claim victory because someone took themselves out, that is just silly.

>> No.8781554

"Do not feel sorrowful that I have shot you, comrade. It is for the greater good."

>> No.8781556

Then it'll be just like Europe.

>> No.8781558

>> No.8781560

Actually he's saying that you know perfectly well what you're saying is bullshit you're just trolling because nobody can be that fucking stupid.

>> No.8781567

No, libertarian. the less laws the better.

>> No.8781571

You're not thinking like an American.

>> No.8781573

Ad hominem detected. Butthurt detected.

>> No.8781578


>> No.8781582

Sounds like anarchy light. Enjoy getting fucked in the ass by everyone because there are no rules.

>> No.8781584

That turtle is breaking the speed limit.

>> No.8781590


Good book on the subject.

PDF: http://assets.cambridge.org/97805216/50755/sample/9780521650755wsc00.pdf

>> No.8781592

Mostly because thinking seems to be optional now-days

>> No.8781595

I plan on doing the fucking, sir.

>> No.8781600


Oh dear god, please tell me you're not actually this nutty IRL. Do you even know what the bill does? The major point of this bill is that you are forced to get insurance or you will be fined. By forcing everyone to get insurance, even healthy people, it will bring down costs for everyone, as well bring in host of protections for people with pre-existing conditions or who get ill.

>> No.8781603

Thanks. I love a good read.

>> No.8781608

Well, it helps that Russia had to learn it the hard way.

By comparison, the US has gotten off fairly light in the 'What's the worst that can happen when we elect corrupt fools' department.

>> No.8781613

Using axis to represent political positions is as stupid as for moral ones.

>> No.8781615

Christ, we're already there.
Man the lifeboats again, we seemed to have dropped back 36 years.

>> No.8781617

Unfortunately real freedom isn't so easy. Sometimes to propogate freedom one must legislate in addition to the bare minimum. For example in the absence of regulation the free market would disappear in many sectors.

However, I am a libertarian in as much as I think the purpose of government should be to allow freedom, it's just that anarchy really isn't the way to do that.

>> No.8781623

In a way it can.

To further your analogy, The boxer can claim a sort of victory if the other guy gets a stroke from stress caused by the prolonged fight.

While it doesn't prove much about skill in fighting, it proves plenty about endurance.

>> No.8781629

Case Points for human stupidity:
1) People defending having their rights taken from them.

2) There must be a warning on coffee telling you it is hot.

3) there is waring labels on chainsaws telling you not to try to stop it with your genitals.

Three examples of stupidity in action, I'd say people are that damn stupid.

>> No.8781631

because in a hierarchy nobody fucks you in the ass? rules are made by those who already have power, to mantain it and gain more.

>> No.8781633


I dunno I thought these ones were pretty good.

>> No.8781636

We get into a war of questionable justification, shoot some people who probably deserved it, go through a short recession, pass some reform bills... Keep on shooting people... And suffer no consequences beyond the purely short term. Sweet. How'd this kill the Russians?

>> No.8781637

Guys, there are varying degrees of freedom. Political freedom, financial freedom, personal freedom, etc. They are different things and are quite disconnected from each other. You can have high personal and political freedom(The USA has among the best of these), but more restricted financial freedoms. In many ways, more financial freedom is a bad thing. For example, the recent mortgage/credit crisis was caused by massive deregulation of the banking industry.

>> No.8781642

pssst. by "36 years" he means Pre Reagan. He's a Reagan sycophant and you can safely ignore everything he has to say.

>> No.8781644

do you even know how economics works? or capitalism?

'the government is involved, so prices will go down.' Riiiiiight. That's how that worked with cars, food, flight, electronics, cellular phones, radio, etc. etc. etc.

>> No.8781645

Your taxes still pay for those services, retard.

People who complain about taxes never just focus on "federal" or "state" taxes, they probably don't know the difference.

>> No.8781652

In a hierarchy I know who will fuck me in the ass.

>> No.8781656

Tits to you, Raegan was a man.

>> No.8781658


Cheers, Britfag here, trying to understand what he was talking about.

>> No.8781682

He was male, but he was no man.

He had shit ideas and shit morals. Oliver North, anyone?

>> No.8781689

Reagan was an asshole that screwed over America for the benefit of his rich bosses.

>> No.8781692

By definition, anarchy can't fail at providing freedom. The question is how to reach a state of anarchy.

>> No.8781695

Have you ever talked to a moderate?

Here's a story I like to tell because it is great. One time in my last year of high school the government teacher gave the class one of those "The Kids Today Don't Know Basic History" tests, just for fun. Two people got the maximum score.

One of them went on to volunteer to go to Iraq.

The other one was an anarchist. In high school. A "high school anarchist" you might say.

Whenever I see one of you turds go "a bloo bloo bloo truth middle" I always think "There's the motherfucker that didn't know what half-century the Civil War took place in."

>> No.8781701

And because of this, I see the bill as a handout to insurance companies. Sure, they can't pull a lot of the bullshit they used to pull, so the consumer will benefit, but they also will get more consumers at their doorstep because they have to get insurance or pay a 2% tax (which is also what makes it legal. You aren't forced to get insurance. It's a choice between insurance and a tax, which, honestly, is perfectly fair).

So, really, I think it'll benefit both insurance companies and the people who use them. However, the middle class won't see much out of this bill except some more taxes and a bit more fair treatment from insurance companies.

I just hate how they're using subsidized student loans to pay for a lot of the bill.

>> No.8781709


A president, did some decent stuff like opened up trade with china.

he also went senile before the end of his term, and totally fucked up the regulation of the interstate system and market.

Personally, as a foaming at the brain liberal, I consider Reagan to be a 50-50 president. He was not nearly so bad as others, and he did some decent stuff. However, he is not the gem that the Republicans make him out to be.

>> No.8781710

Anarchy is a country without government or rules.

>> No.8781722


Yes that's how insurance works. The more people paying into the pot the lower the premiums for everyone. The only government involvement is forcing you to get it, protecting you form bankruptcy and costing the government more money when you end up requiring medical care because you were too cheap to buy it.

It's not the perfecxt system by a long shot, but it's better than what you currently have.

>> No.8781723

...please...tell me number 3 is just a joke.

>> No.8781724

Ugh, isn't it hard knowing things? It's so fucking frustrating talking to people who think we have a single payer system now and are happy about it.

>> No.8781725

Not necessarily a country. Except if you take the loosest sense of the word.

>> No.8781726

And not a country, for that matter.

>> No.8781736

You can't just declare/legislate something to be cheaper and poof, it is. Somewhere down the line somehow the cost adjusts, since the insurance companies now can't, where do you think it'll be?
Look at an example: the Deutsche Mark before WWII, they declared it to be worth more and set government mandated value. That's how you get Hitler.

You want a better economic system, close the stock markets and get government out of it.

>> No.8781741

probably stems from people putting it between their legs because their hands are otherwise occupied

but no, the guy is just a tard

>> No.8781746

He's responsible for the bill that ruined the infrastructure of the country. Its because of him that we are piss poor and about to loose our AAA credit rating.

>> No.8781748


>> No.8781753

Did you even read the post? There was nothing in it about legislating value. Spreading risk around to lower the overall cost is a pretty standard insurance practice, dude. I don't know what to tell you if you don't get that.

>> No.8781754


>> No.8781757


>> No.8781761

Well, this is sorta true.

>> No.8781762

>the Deutsche Mark before WWII, they declared it to be worth more and set government mandated value. That's how you get Hitler.
Now we know. Governement intervention is nazism. Yeah.

>> No.8781770

The other guys will give us a different story, I imagine. I'm not going to condemn Ronald Reagan so easily.

>> No.8781777

Anarchy is a piece of land about to be invaded by a country that has their shit together.

>> No.8781780

To be fair, Nixon had a hand in opening things up with China as well.

Kind of a shame he had to fuck things up with Watergate, cause otherwise, he wasn't doing that badly all things considered.

But...that was the fuck-up that paid for all.

>> No.8781785

Funny part is Hitler actually did a good job when you look away from the whole Nazism thing he had going.

>> No.8781793

Oh by the way, Godwin's law.

>> No.8781794

but medicine has been over-inflating prices for so long now. If you have something done in France, its relatively cheap. The same procedure done in America is 10 times as much.

>> No.8781799

You don't get it, do you? If everybody is paying, but not everybody is getting sick, there is a surplus of money for those who do get sick.

>> No.8781805

Not once did I say we had a single payer system. I know we do not.

>> No.8781816

>everybody is paying
>not everybody is sick
I object.

>> No.8781829


>> No.8781832

That's forgetting that war isn't as easy as before, and that the anarchists of that piece of land were able to defeat their own army.

>> No.8781837

no, not really. see

the few countries that developed anarchist principles did fairly well. they just couldnt really compete with fascist military

>> No.8781841

Godwin's law

>> No.8781845

Then get out of our society.

>> No.8781846


I agree, it's definately not perfect. Consider it a stepping stone to something better. When people realise they're no longer in danger of being left to die becuase they can't afford treatment, or that they don't need to worry if their children have pre-existing conditions or that this is some communist plot to take over the states the debate will change away from the current reactionary one into a more sensible one of how to improve it.


I don't really understand your point. Are you saying moderates are bad or good? I consider myself a (british) conservative. I'm joining the British Army and love the NHS. The charts just a joke.

>> No.8781847

How about not everyone needs complicated surgery?

>> No.8781851

I just think its sad when the Russians are doing the whole free-market thing better than the United States is.

>> No.8781855

well, maybe not sad, ironic.

>> No.8781859

they weren't ALWAYS communists you know

>> No.8781862

those who call themselves Libertarians should move to Somalia. Its a Libertarian paradise.

>> No.8781867

No, go look at a chainsaw, no stopping it with hands, face , or genitals...

>> No.8781871

>>8781799 here

So would I, normally, but I look at prices in Canada for private care and I look at prices in the United States for public care and I suddenly appreciate our glorious socialism.

>> No.8781877

You guys do realize that the goal with the communism was to reach a state of anarchy after people got used to helping each other right? And that the only reason that it didn't end up as they wanted was because of fascists?

>> No.8781883

This is a tired line, and it is false. Somolia is a feudal warzone, not a libertarian paradise. I'm not a libertarian, I recognize insane ideas when I see them, but it's an idiotic comparison.

>> No.8781889

Nah there aint brah.
That "surplus" gets wasted away by them illegal folks that end up in your hospitals, then leave with nowhere to send the check to.

>> No.8781891

War isn't as easy as before when? Before what? When was War easy, and how will diminishing your infrastructure allow you some grand defence that other countries wouldn't bother testing? The only thing that would keep you safe would be if other countries were busy fighting each other over who gets what part of your land.

>> No.8781893

But you don't have to *pay* the costs in America unless you actually get sick. In Canada, they take it out of your pocket via taxes. Granted, we probably pay more for the military, but we've all accepted that already.

>> No.8781897


Only due to high oil & gas prices. Their GDP drop last year was larger than in Europe, while other BRIC countries kept growing. There's also massive inflation and huge differences in regional living standards and costs. The Moscow region has 10% of Russias population and produces quarter of it's GDP, and the local bureaucracy isn't making it easy on foreign investors.

>> No.8781904

> You guys do realize that the goal with the communism was to reach a state of anarchy after people got used to helping each other right?
More or less.
>And that the only reason that it didn't end up as they wanted was because of fascists?
No. It was because of the failings of the marxist/leninist theories, and the failings of certain revolutionnary events.

>> No.8781906

no it's not, they don't have any damn rights at all. "Hey can I have some of that food" NO *bang bang*

>> No.8781915

It has come to my attention that Start of Darkness is on rapidshare. So fuck you guys directly.
Heil Obama, long live Sacred America, etc.

>> No.8781916

the comparison is that lax laws will make the country into a feudal warzone. which is a rather apt comparison.

>> No.8781928

OK...so I'm starting to think maybe giving everyone healthcare may not be such a hot idea now.

Mostly for the fact we're finding more and more ways to sustain people that, for all intents and purposes, the natural order should have snuffed out ages ago.

Paperwork. A force far deadlier to evolution than even the most vehement Creationist.

>> No.8781939

if you download that book instead of buying it you are participating in socialism!

>> No.8781964

My solution for the whole thing was to bring back the old three-four year medical courses. Have a bunch of family practice doctors; basically let RN's have medical practices and get the lawyers out by having patients sign waivers so MD's don;t need to spend twenty years paying for school and 3/4 of their income on malpractice insurance.
the family practice MD's can handle all the colds a coughs that people seem to need to go to the doctors for (I don't know when it became common practice to do this, but moving on from the fact its a stupid practice) and then you free up the specialist MD's to cure cancer or what-not.

>> No.8781970

Before now. Europeans countries, for example, can't just invade each other as soon as one seems isolated.
The success of the revolution, necessary to bring an anarchical system, suppose that the existing infrastructures are replaced or occupied. That's how anarchists could defeat the army of their country, and fight off the others.

>> No.8781973

Getting surgery in the United States costs way more than Canadians would pay over several years. If you're lucky and can dodge bullets when it comes to medicine, you're better off in the pay-as-you-go system America had, but if you have any kind of medical emergency and don't have insurance, you're fucked and that jerk at the office they outsourced from Canada is laughing uproariously.

>> No.8782000

Libertarian, not anarchy. You must be a democrat. Republicans usually go for a 'you must hate god and your people' approach.

>> No.8782002

No, then you're just a thief.
Oh wait.

>> No.8782003

>3/4 of their income on malpractice insurance.
Hahahahahahaha look at you.

Malpractice insurance is the free market at work. Instead of REGULATIONS* regarding how to not be fucking incompetent, private companies use financial incentives to punish risky behavior on average over a long period of time.

Look at you.

Look at you.


>> No.8782005


In the UK I pay 8% tax on my earning as national insurance, which pays for my healthcare. Some of you might find that steep. But for that little sacrifice I get guaranteed healthcare for life. I'll never have to worry about being kicked out of a hospital bed because I can't pay. Or selling my house to pay for cancer treatment. I can have kids sure in the knowledge if they have any complications whatsoever they'll get the treatment they need. And not just for me. For my family. My neighbour. Everyone I care about will get the treatment they deserve regardless of income or circumstance.

That 8% out my paycheck, pays for peace of mind for life. It's a bargain.

>> No.8782016

The second part's pretty spot on.

Deep down, we'd all love to believe we could live a fairly altruistic existence for the greater good...but Goddamit, we just aren't wired for it.

People are inherently selfish. In and of itself, not a bad thing, so long as it's kept within moderation, but the fact is, it doesn't bode well for a system that requires everyone is a level playing field at all times.

>> No.8782021

The Canadian's laughter means little, as he is a Canadian, and thus inferior.

>> No.8782027

That was Hitlers method too, one step at a time.

>> No.8782033

>The success of the revolution, necessary to bring an anarchical system, suppose that the existing infrastructures are replaced or occupied.

So...the existing infrastructures are replaced or occupied by what? Just random people who wanted the job? What keeps them in line? How is governing removed from this equation? Doesn't anarchy rely on everyone wanting to play the anarchy game?

>> No.8782043

ouch, that really hurts.

>> No.8782053

>Doesn't anarchy rely on everyone wanting to play the anarchy game?
Wich basically, and naively, assumes that everyone is willing to do what needs to be done.

>> No.8782071

>Doesn't anarchy rely on everyone wanting to play the anarchy game?

Pretty much. It raises an interesting concept of what anarchy really is.

>> No.8782102

The United States is now not just a Nation but a multifaceted Corporation providing Banking, Vehicles, and now Health Insurance as just examples of it's many services it offers it's client/citizens....

>> No.8782103

Replaced by new infrastructures more adapted to the new goals of the society, occupied by the people. They are kept in line by their own interests and by the general refusal to submit to a new oppression.
And yes, anarchy rely on anarchists. Lots of them. Big news.

>> No.8782104

Sorry, I can't hear you over my cancer treatment.Not that I have cancer right now but I really don't put my tax dollars to work often enough.

>> No.8782106

well enjoy your socialism Brit. I'm gonna go use my gun to shoot Obama posters.

>> No.8782113

Which means that anarchy, as a collaboration between many different people, is practically a government in itself, if only temporary.

>> No.8782116


Why are you even talking about Hitler. He has absolutely nothing to do with this??

Are you still talking about freedom. I suggest your understanding of freedom is far too limited. How about freedom from fear. Freedom from illness. Freedom from exploitation..

>> No.8782133

No, I don't belong to one of your parties. I just don't like the idea of a political party founded on selfish greed and the logical fallacy that any government can function without fulfilling certain important roles in society.

Libertarians seem to think that people will pay for a fire department out of the good of their heart, but we all know that isn't true, And libertarianism's answer to the poor and poverty stricken is to die quietly due to BOOTSTRAPS.

It's a rather cruel way to live your life.

>> No.8782148

Yea, and where is Johns-Hopkins, the best cancer hospital in the world? Not Canada if I recall.

>> No.8782150

>Freedom from exploitation.
No such thing.
Unless you're king of the world, and even that's a stretch.

>> No.8782165

Ah, but I'm not taking out a loan from the mob to pay for my chemo-vacation.

>> No.8782168

Well yes. Only right libertarians are afraid of governments. Anarchists just refuse to organize it as a state, or any kind authoritarian institution.

>> No.8782174

Why not?
It might ultimately be cheaper.

>> No.8782179


That doesn't mean we don't strive to acheive it. Nor do we stop legislating to try and reduce the amount of exploitation. Small steps.

>> No.8782185

>well enjoy your civilized society Brit. I'm gonna go use my gun to make an impotent gesture of my futility while ironically wasting money on ammunition.

>> No.8782193

Canada won't ask me to kill a man, unless we get into a total war and start conscripting. But even then, I can break my leg to dodge the draft and I'll have guaranteed treatment. Socialized medicine is looking cheaper all the time!

>> No.8782201

Fuck I've been there. The place is a shithole.

Sure, they'll patch you up, but goddamn if they'll even treat you as anything more than a paycheck.

The nurses are the worst though. They'll do almost anything to avoid helping a patient.

Fuck American hospitals.

>> No.8782208

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin

>> No.8782214

The fuck do you get all that? No, I identify my self as libertarian for ease in these situations, but you don't know what a libertarian is so it didn't work.

Ok I will assume you are not a troll and explain:
libertarian does not mean anarchy. it mean less government not more, especially federal government. States and cities do fine job running fire stations and police, and if a STATE wants to have a socialist system whatever, we'll move to another, but teh FED does not get to decide for all states (as in country, that's what state means, yea, states are COUNTRIES, NOT DISTRICTS of a larger state)

libertarian means 'as little as possible' not none at all.

>> No.8782217

Very little of each person's taxes are used on the healthcare system.

>> No.8782229

>essential liberty
>a little temporary safety

Now you just need to define the two parts of that statement that matter.

>> No.8782234

Then stay in Canada. we'll just try to keep our best hospitals in the world to our self. But not for much longer with this bill.

>> No.8782243

>Implying taxation equates to liberty, that universal healthcare is temporary, or that healthcare is simply "safety" and not a neccessity.

>> No.8782255

Trying to provide your citizens the right to life seems like it should fall in the "little as possible" category.

>> No.8782288

Oh for fucks sake I hate it when people bring up the founding fathers like what they have to say is relevant.

Let me tell you something about Ben Franklin. The man lived in an era where it was still considered the best medical practice to leech out bad blood. Ben Franklin lived in a time when it took months to communicate with someone. The cutting edge of warfare in Ben Franklin's time was to have each side line people up in neat rows and march them towards the opposing army.

Keep facts like this in mind when bringing up Ben Franklin in the future. The man was barely out of the Renaissance and anything he said holds the same relevance as a quote from the bible.

>> No.8782294

Plus, ben franklin lived in france.

>> No.8782296

Also, one must remember that with healthcare comes liberty. If I get cancer under the current system, and my heath insurance drops me, I'm fucked. I lose my house because I have to sell it to pay for the treatment. I lose many liberties at the expense of paying to keep my life.

Paying the taxes for the knowledge that I won't lose many of the personal liberties I have and enjoy is much more important, and, contrary to what others would want you to believe, much more LIBERATING.

>> No.8782297

You're a fool using a quote out of context.

And as we all know, "any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

>> No.8782301

...so basically you're saying you want to be coddled for the rest of your life. You miss mommy's breast that much, eh?

>> No.8782316

The quote is pretty timeless.
Also, quotes from the bible are taken pretty serious in some circles.

>> No.8782334

You know, as much as conservatives love their money, they sure don't mind spending hundreds of thousands on medical bills.

>> No.8782335

Hurr durr ad hominem.

Durr hurr I mistakenly think I don't stand on the shoulders of giants.

>> No.8782340

The bible is not something you take literally. Well, not unless you want to stone your daughter to death for little to no provocation.

>> No.8782344

Yeah, until you lose your job.
And the bills for 'Insurance' still keep coming.

>> No.8782356

So what you're saying is that you want to be fucked for the rest of your life. You miss daddy's cock that much, eh ?

>> No.8782386

You're new to this tax thing, aren't you?

>> No.8782396

then what happens when backwards southern states fall behind the rest of the country due to a drop in education and social programs? What happens then?

>> No.8782399

I am a businessman. As a businessman, I am primarily concerned with good business, smart business. Certainties and guaranteed returns are good, smart business. Universal healthcare is certain, guaranteed healthcare; and that's good, smart business.

>> No.8782402

Actually, how will the bill handle that kind of stuff?

I though it used an income tax (which, obviously, they can not tax if you aren't making any money).

>> No.8782416


At that point I'd qualify for government assitance. In the UK, where it's done sensibly through taxes, I'd just stop paying tax because I have no job. I still get healthcare. It's not a complicated system.

>> No.8782419

You can either get insurance or elect to pay a tax. Naturally, if you're not making a great deal of money, it's more worth your while to pay the tax.

>> No.8782482

If it's tax, you're fine.
I'm just unlucky to live in the netherlands.
'round here the goverment forces you to get a private insurance.
Tl:dr: I have to cough up the cash whether I have it or not.

>> No.8782487

Not really. The Britfag is saying he values the sense of security guaranteed health care provides over the ability to do as he pleases with a significant portion of his income. Fiscal freedom is still freedom.

>> No.8782488

What is with all these people who like Putin? Read up on his record, he's a fucking douchebag. But he's a douchebag with really good PR, so because people are moronic, mindless sheep, they just like him because he does cool things in his free-time.

>> No.8782494

The United States is.


The United states are.

>> No.8782501

We have the right to life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. Not the right to a good life, some liberties and guaranteed happiness.

the problem here is states rights, they've been trampled all over just as they have been since the 16th amendment. The federal government does NOT have the constitutional right to even pass 'laws' in teh common parlance, they're supposed to amend the constitution when they want new laws. To get around this they use what they did with this health care 'bill' THAT'S NOT A BILL, they use the Code of Federal Regulations which is itself unconstitutional.

>> No.8782508


"Universal" does not equate "good". However statistics show that the US healthcare is both more expensive and produces worse overall results (deaths at childbirth, life expectancy etc) than that of Europe.

Of course the joke that got passed is unlikely to remedy this in meaningful way, but it is not the problem of mine but that of the Americans, and all those who follow their example.

>> No.8782530

I don't think you live in the country you think you live in.

>> No.8782534

>Oh for fucks sake I hate it when people bring up the founding fathers like what they have to say is relevant.

That does not change the truth of that quote. Just because something is old does invalidate its message. If you're that type, look at the bible.

>> No.8782545

Seconding this.

The vernacular stopped being "These United States" after the civil war.

>> No.8782547


There might be a lot of self-hating Americans on board who idolize otherness and thus furiously masturbate to Putin's musculous might, or it might be just a meme. Remember, this is 4chan.

>> No.8782549

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo im a republican I MUST NOW GTFO

>> No.8782559

you read way too much into an image macro. We also post funny picture of ahmadinejad.

>> No.8782568

Dimwitted Christfag detected.

The remaining portion of the Bible that isn't old Jew laws or old Jew tall tales is something that can be found in any society's philosophy and literature.

>> No.8782574

So your peace of mind should come cost your neighbors resources?
Please see socialism & communism for full details

>> No.8782576


>> No.8782585

Why don't you people let the South secede or something and allow those who think they cannot live under the current system move there? Is the unity of the states that important?

>> No.8782596

Others should be left to die because you will not share?
See Objectivism for details.

>> No.8782608

I'm actually a Buddhist.
That was what we call an 'example'.

Say it with me, Ex-Am-ple. EX-ample.

>> No.8782623

Wait what? Since when did being allowed to live equal "guaranteed happiness"?

You're fucking weird, IMO.

>> No.8782633


Stop pretending you and your ideology have ever mattered in any conceivable way, Rand.

>> No.8782636

State (as in teh government) sponsored charity is legalized oppression.

>> No.8782642

No, you're right. Ben Franklin's brand of wisdom is completely outdated. Hard work doesn't get you anywhere these days, nor do silly things like patience and frugality.

>> No.8782644


Morrigan shrugged.

>> No.8782652

"any society's philosophy and literature."

Any? You sure about that?

>> No.8782663

True freedom doesn't exist in the real world. The fact that we have laws at all means we aren't truly free. True freedom would be anarchy, and a society simply can't function in complete anarchy. So what we are left with is trying to balance the amount of stuff you are 'free' to do while still maintaining order and safety.

Universal Health-care may indeed be socialist, but you know what? I'll take not paying out the ass to live over some vague notion of 'glorious capitalistic freedom'.

>> No.8782665

having cancer treatments is not a constitutional right. if we disagree on this we were supposed to make anew constitution or amend the old one, NOT force the 'right' through with the Code of Federal Regulations.

>> No.8782666

Corporatism is legalized oppression.

>> No.8782670


Sign..waivers. So, if they fuck up and get your ass kil....what.THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

>> No.8782672

>Hard work doesn't get you anywhere these days
This part is true, you're better of scamming folks.
Though that may qualify as hard work by todays standards.

>> No.8782682

pretty sure right to life liberty and personal property are fairly inalienable, broseph

>> No.8782692


You are an idiot and deserve to be oppressed. Left on your own you would destroy yourself.

>> No.8782699



Oh dear that one got me...wait just give me a second PFFFFFFFF HAHAHAHAAA

Right, ok... I hope you're having fun if you're just trolling. If not, well thanks for brightening my day with your idiocy.

>> No.8782716

I'm pretty sure Right to life doesn't mean what you think it means.

>> No.8782718


Corporatism is a system where state, labour (unions) and capital band together in "corporations" (doesn't mean big biz) to plan the economy. Incidentally the Scandinavian countries are closest to a corporatist system among all the nations of the world.

>> No.8782719

'primary care physicians" have been handling the sniffles since there were doctors about.
It's the way we can detect the early signs of something worse.
"Hey, I have a bad cough... is it pneumonia?"
"Cool, just checking."

>> No.8782721

One cannot guarantee equality. Heck, we even disagree with what equality is! That's why you leave it to the local governments to figure out their people need/want/whatever. NOT THE FED.

The FED is supposed protect the sovereignty of the States and their existence, NOT REGULATE THEM.

>> No.8782724

Fucking this.

A tip to all other countries; when the retarded portion of your population wants to split off and form their own state, let them. And certainly don't go to war to keep them.

>> No.8782732

Yes it is. If the South secedes, then what's to stop California doing so?

Then other states or groups of states might and probably will break off.

Bad times, as debt with China and others will be unresolved and most of the new countries will have nukes.

>> No.8782733

I wouldn’t mind getting a state run healthcare plan here in the US, but as long as healthcare is affordable and of good quality, I don't really care how I get it. I'm a diabetic (type 1, not one of those fattie type 2s) and I NEED insurance to be able to afford the insulin I need to continue living. Unfortunately, health insurance is hella expensive, so I'm suck living in my parent's basement so I can pay for it.
I'd like to get a job that comes with good enough insurance so that I can move out, but to do that I need to go back to school, which is hampered by not having enough money, because I'm paying out the nose for healthcare.

>> No.8782740

Yeah, after hitting submit, I realized realized the real irony in my post was that there was none. Feels bad, man.

>> No.8782742

an image with the presidents signature on /tg/

>247 posts and 27 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

Well done /tg/

>> No.8782749

You know its right there in the opening line. "Life Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness." Universal Health Care falls under the first word. Its life and the continuation.

>> No.8782757

The issue is, many healthcare groups avoid state law by claiming to be based federally, and the patients don't have a thing they can do about it because their care is provided by their job.
For instance, if my healthcare was based in CT, where I work/live, I would be covered for certain things I'm not currently, considering my union's healthcare is provided 'federally' despite it being a CT only union.

>> No.8782771

>He thinks he's Buddhist

>> No.8782788


While the quote is still relivent, you were not using it in a manner that IS right.

>> No.8782794


>> No.8782795

that sucks, where I live they'd gave you the stuff for free or after big discount

>> No.8782806

I will kill you before paying for your cancer. Now my neighbor, i know and like him, I'll help him out with that shit, ON MY OWN TERMS not ones enforced by the FED.

heck if my city was enacting a law that said I had to have insurance, i'd be all for it, BUT AGAIN, its not the place of the federal government to mandate it. heck 38 states have already said they will not abide by this health 'law' (go Idaho for getting the ball rolling)

>> No.8782809

Politics, our greatest weakness.
>/tg/ Trolling Government

>> No.8782813


In a world where Pakistan and Russia have nukes, I don't give a shit if some US states secede and get them too.

As for the California thing, why would they secede if the South does? The bible belt area might manage to scrape an existence, but California surely not.

And you americans are never going to pay that debt anyway, except if you devalue the dollar for that purpose. The Chinese know this too.

>> No.8782816


Oh wow. Coming back as a cockroach and all that shit? People really are stupid.

>> No.8782821

>I will kill you before paying for your cancer.

>> No.8782833

Why is it not the feds place again?

>> No.8782840

When we enter the Sengoku America period and all 50 states are at war with each other, I will look for you on the field of battle.

>> No.8782845

>>I will kill you before paying for your cancer.

Bet your karma really appreciates that attitude.


Fuck, forget the South, we need to firebomb THAT shithole already.

>> No.8782866


Damn right it sucks. I'm actually considering cashing out the American dream and going to grad school in Canada. I heard that they started tightening up immigration after all the far-liberal types started heading north during the bush years, but I figure being an accepting student of higher education would improve my odds of admission dramatically.

Otherwise I'm not really sure what I'm going to do.

>> No.8782873

Washingtonfag here. Makes me sad that they are on our eastern border. We really try to be more progressive than that over here.

>> No.8782876

Get this out of my /tg/

>> No.8782889

No you won't. America will be an irradiated wasteland devoid of any life, as will the rest of earth.

ATH gets his way. He can celebrate in Hell.

>> No.8782893

If you're going into design and arts, they're five times as likely to accept your request. They have a dearth of creative artists and writers.

>> No.8782895

Ok. Lets get rid of the police and fire department then.

Because both of those are paid for and run with tax dollars. You don't want to pay for someone else's illness, why would you want to pay for their protection in other ways as well?

>> No.8782897

I want to see the battle of Rhode Island Vs. Texas. Don't complicate shit with details like distance, I just want to see it.

>> No.8782902

says Life, not a good life, or a healthy life, just life.

not happiness, just the opportunity to pursue/attain it.

We have the right to not be killed (different than to keep breathing), not to be forced to be unhappy (not have those opportunities given to us) and the freedom to to do all this as we see fit (not as some asshole in Washington say we should)
Fuck Washington. I say its almost time for the violence.
Support our troops: we'll need them for the revolution.

>> No.8782931

Conservative president "fucks up the nation", liberals say they'll leave. Some do. Some don't
Liberal president "fucks up the nation", conservatives say they'll leave, instead stick around and bitch and threaten to secede.

>> No.8782949

No, really. "Right to life" isn't a constitutional guarantee that you get to survive until old age finally claims you. It simply means that nobody can actively deprive you of the means to stay alive. Not being able to afford health care because the system is fucked up (and I won't try to claim it's not.) does not impede your right to life any more than not being able to afford to eat does. Were someone attempting to inflict bodily harm on you, starve you, or maliciously deny you medical treatment, then yes your "right to life" would be violated.

>> No.8782956

Duncan Idaho.
The only Idaho that matters.

>> No.8782961

land war between the New Jersey Irregulars and the Alaskan secessionists.

... fuck this would make for a good boardgame or something.

>> No.8782994

I always wondered why libertarians and conservatives haven't just given up and moved to cabins in the woods like the rest of the nutbags.
I mean, if you hate your neighbors so much to want to save 5 dollars instead of letting them stay alive... god damn.

>> No.8783003

"We have the right to not be killed"

By that logic, you should support healthcare for all, as not giving it would be murder.

But you're devoid of reason, or a good troll.

Either way I welcome the troops. They'll likely shoot you first.

>> No.8783004

And dying of cancer isn't life sooo....

>> No.8783005

>I say its almost time for the violence.
>Support our troops: we'll need them for the revolution.

>> No.8783013

I'll admit, when it comes to politics, I live under a rock and haven't crawled out of it at any point.

Can someone tell me what the bill does so far? I've read bits of news and what I've seen so far is:

1. Required health insurance for everyone.
2. Medicaid for kids up to 26.

There's more to it then just that right? The first point doesn't sound all that "evil" or anything, so long as it's not insanely overpriced.

>> No.8783028

It needs to be said atleast once:

>> No.8783038

>The government is stealing our rights!
>Support our troops because they have nothing to do with the Governm-wait...

>> No.8783056

>By that logic, you should support healthcare for all, as not giving it would be murder.
Congratulations, you are now actively responsible for the death of millions of Africans.

>> No.8783071

Government will help some people pay for it if they can't afford it as well.

>> No.8783075

poorfags on foodstamps will get access to medicare.

The IRS will rape you if you don't have some sort of medical insurance.

>> No.8783082

reduction of costs, mandate for the existence of exchanges which essentially means shitty but affordable health plans, and a ban on removing people from insurance for pre-existing conditions.
It's about as tame of a bill as possible.

>> No.8783084

Didn't say i was a stereotypical one. Peace harmony all that is good, and more fun when practicing with others, but I am no Gandhi, I'll drive the British out of India alright, heavier by several pound of lead right out. The difference with me and teh average Christan/Islamic type is that i recognize and admit my contradiction; heck after the bodies are cooling I may even find nirvana, who knows.
balance in all things, if i'm involved in handing out that balance than so be it, heck i'l feel better probably. but if not, oh well, back to the meditations.

>> No.8783098

which we should be. We shouldn't be let off the hook so easily for the atrocities done in America's name in Africa.

>> No.8783149


That sounds like a good thing too.


Is the penalty that bad? The news I read didn't mention what the penalty was, just that there'd be one for businesses if you don't offer your employee insurance.


Shitty? Why would the plans be so shitty?

>> No.8783152


>says Life, not a good life, or a healthy life, just life.

So...when you get denied live-saving treatments....that..that's part of...what are you on about?

>> No.8783193

We don't. We're fine with our neighbors, just fuck you if we have to help our neighbors, your neighbors, that other guy's neighbors, and all the neighbors in all the country at the same time.

Fuck your state. I'm from Michigan and you all can suck it. I'll help Detroit and Lansing, YOU deal with Newark and LA.

>> No.8783199


Insurance companies are obliged to cover you even if you have pre-existing conditions, and can no longer drop you if you get sick.

There's a few other minor things, but that's actually pretty much it. It isn't an evil bill. Republicans are just being hysterical girls.

>> No.8783260


I think the fines about 2.5% of your earnings.

>> No.8783296

You really are an idiot, you know that?

>> No.8783348

Because said life-saving treatments are a service provided by someone else. One of the key points to arguments against this sort of thing is that nobody has any right or claim to the work of another. Yes, doctors are trained to heal the sick, but they are no more required to put their talent to practice than a chef, carpenter, you, me, or anyone else regardless of how necessary their work is to the life of another.

>> No.8783387


Well, that's about 15 kinds of bullshit.

>> No.8783399

IF healthcare law = good
THEN eatmyhat, normalize
IF helathcare law != good
THEN joininwithteapartycrowd, pay fine instead of insurance to drive everyone else's costs up.

>> No.8783407

Did you know Somalia has a government? They just only control a small fraction of the country.

Therefore, Somalia has too much government.

If they stepped aside and allowed pure freedom, it would certainly transmogrify instantaneously into a capitalist ultraparadise.

>> No.8783424


Say I run a burger shop. You are a paying customer, but you wear no shirt or shoes.

Am I obligated to serve you?

>> No.8783431

>implying the doctors aren't being payed

>> No.8783440

No, you are.
If you're too poor to buy bread, you also blame the baker for refusing to give it to you for free?

>> No.8783445

Its starts with, Oh, social security is small, tame, it won't effect us right now, only your kids and theirs and theirs and . . .Well it didn't work, the SS (he-he, SS) system is dying a slow death, us 20somethings are paying out the wazoo and will get NOTHING.

After all that what do they do, oh well we'll add medicare, medicaid, Departments of Education Healthcare and Homeland Security, all just small 'we needed them at the time' and they 'make sense' measures. Tame laws are still laws, and we have to fickin many as it is.

Have you seen the code of federal regulations? Fuckin 12ft high, 18ft long shelves and they fill FOUR of them. fuck adding more we have enough.

again how the FUCK do YOU THINK HITLER STARTED, hmmmmmmmm? You think he just walked in and said, KILL ALL TEH JEWS. No, first he enacted some much needed reform, first he fixed the economics, THEN he 'improved' health care, for the right people, if you get my drift. So Obama is just working from the other direction so not to draw suspicion.
And whats wrong with starting from scratch? a new constitution phrased for the new century, heck the one we have was never meant to last this long, the writers thought it get overthrown every hundred years or so anyway, lets do it. Let's refresh the tree of liberty with some blood, its been a while.

>> No.8783446


That sounds like it's only bad for the insurance companies really.


Penalty doesn't sound too horrible.

So why are people here actually complaining about it? Why did I read that the Republicans practically swore a blood oath to repeal this thing come fall?

>> No.8783464

Say I run an ad hominem shop. You enter my shop with a banana peel covering your dick. Am I required to provide you with my fresh and tasty ad hominems?

>> No.8783517

I'm curious now, please elaborate. Why exactly is it "bullshit" that nobody has the right to force a doctor provide them with medical treatment, any more than they have a right to force someone else to perform any other task?

>> No.8783523

Fines will go up the longer you don't have insurance.

>> No.8783524

So universal health care is going to...kill all the jews?

>> No.8783535


Clearly not, because the sign outside says 'no bananapeeldicks allowed.'

>> No.8783547

The FORCING THE DOCTOR PART you fuckwit. The Doctor still gets his pay.

>> No.8783578

Payment or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Outside of his own financial needs, there is no requirement that the doctor to accept payment for his services.

>> No.8783593


Alrighty. Say you are chugging along, working, trying to save for your old age, put some aside for your kids, all that. And, now you got...bone cancer. You die, your family is fucked so hard in the ass, it's basicly over. You DON'T die, well, they are just as fucked from the bills.

>> No.8783597


Which will be less.

Which means fewer people will want to enter the profession. (And before you say
>hippocratic oath,
I imagine the doctors would pick up shop and go somewhere they could be paid more.)

Which means fewer doctors. (Locally, assuming previous statement holds true.)

Which means greater demand, and therefore greater prices.

>> No.8783609


That's life insurance, not health insurance.

>> No.8783637

See >>8783578, I just didn't see your post before I hit submit. If the doctor is paid to provide a service, than yes, he is obligated to treat someone. But nothing requires him to accept said payment.

>> No.8783684

It seems that only the trolls have stayed behind.
What does that make me you ask?
I answer that by closing this browser.

>> No.8783703

>Well, that's about 15 kinds of bullshit.
But its true. this is not care-a-lot, there are no guaranties of happiness and real change does not happen peaceably. Change not earned slips away. Look at Africa. They've been fighting for years, so what do we do? Go in there and remove the 'bad guys'. Let them have their bad guys, them be oppressed, and when its enough, the people will overthrow the bad guys and peace will be had. Saving lives now costs more in the long term. Same with Israel over there, them them and the Palestinians have it out once and for all and there will be peace.

you want universal health care? Fine, we'll fight you for it. Physically resist it with force of arms.
We are a violent people, which is not necessarily a bad or a good thing, it just is. It will happen, someday somehow, someone will go to far and the US as we know it will me forever changed. The longer we delay the longer it will take, and the longer its takes the more costly it will be.

It won't be fun, or honorable, war never is because people die, even those who don't want to fight will die; sad? yes, shed a tear and move on but holding back only prolongs the suffering.

>> No.8783711

Umm... that's really sad, tough luck? Still no obligation for the doctor to treat the bone cancer.

>> No.8783785

yup. that happens and then they'll enact some law saying that if your a doctor trained in the US you have to work in teh US, and then when schools stop having enough people become doctors, they'll . . . see? once the ball is rolling it don't stop.

>> No.8783823


If he dies, because he lacks insurance to get it, that's still health insurance. Or lives, for that matter.

Alright, fine. let's go into my own situation, then.

Car acadent, came out of the fucking blue. Not my fault, the fuck in the other car was drunk as shit.

My left leg was sheard off, almost, at the knee. took...about...2,500 to fix me up, as well as rehabilitation. I still can't walk, by myself, have to use a brace or a cane.

Due to this, all not my falt, as I was out of collage for aobut...5 months, you know, in the hospital, the insurance company forced my mom to drop me from her plan. So, we got lucky, and it all payed for, before we lost that.

The FUN part comes after. Even before all this fun, I had been in regular therapy. well, that's out of the question. Oh, and the meds I need, to keep my mind more blanced. Nope, none of that for me! or the pain pills, for when my leg REALLY starts hurting anymore.

Fast forward about a year. My social problems have blossomed into full on terror around other people. I pretty don't go out much, due to developing minor agoraphobia. It's not that bad, and I seem to have less issue at night. There's still the depression from before. Oh, and the OCD has jumped a few notches up.

People should have what they need, to ensure they can be functioning members of society.

>> No.8783840

I wish a ball would roll over you.

>> No.8783844

Kay, now you're just being paranoid.
You do know that a good chunk of doctors out there do it out of concern for their fellow man as much as they do it for cash, right?
That is, they won't mind salary cuts so much provided it doesn't get cut in half.

>> No.8783927

>People should have what they need, to ensure they can be functioning members of society.
This is where the problem rises.
Take your own example, there's no guarantee you'll be a functioning member of society even if you get all the therapy and meds.
In the meantime, someone else is paying for those.

>> No.8783970

You honestly and truly have my sympathy, and were it within my means to do so, I would offer aid. This still does not change the fact that you are not owed anything by anyone, save the drunken asshole who caused the accident. Have you considered suing the piss out of him to recoup the expenses from having to pay for rehab without insurance?

>> No.8783998

Sad. i shall cry a river, build a bridge and then get over it.
I was in the Army, then one day injury. Sent home and given an honorable discharge. Then my wife gets cancer about the same time complications my injuries mean I can't walk without a brace.
I'm not going to make you pay for it or sit and whine for help from the government.
Overcome your disabilities, cause you'll get no sympathy from us. If you do you'll be better than if we all just give in and pander to your every whim.

>> No.8784006


Ah, ah! No, I am able to work, still. It's just from home, right now. The last job I had ended because the company went under, I'm trying to get one as a medical transcriber right now. I can still contribute, just..well, I could do it easier if I wasn't...as insane as I am.

>> No.8784036

In that case I am obliged to congratulate you on at least not being a smuck that would abuse an all too easily abused system.

>> No.8784049


Kinda hard. He's dead.


I'm not saying pander. But, acording to the laws of the moment, I do not reach the point where I get ANY aid from the gov't, due to the fact I have to live at home, and mom makes SLIGHTY too much, despite the fact we are loosing our house. So, yeah.

>> No.8784119

Sue his family/estate. Maybe his wife/kids/whatever don't deserve it, but it's his fuck-up, some compensation should come out of whatever he left behind that was of any worth.

>> No.8784153


What can I say? Giving up is for pussies. I'm not utterly helpless, and I DO know what my issues are. I'm working to fix them, somewhat clumsily, but I don't plan on giving up. EVER.

Too easy.

I still think people should be ABLE to get the help they need, although there DOES need to be something put back in. I don't know, perhaps, if they can't pay, working a bit at the hospital, or something?

>> No.8784202


Even if I wanted to open the case back up, I don't think I would. His falt, he's dead. why should I ruin someone else's life for that? No. I'll get bye. I'll...figure sOmeTHING out. Not dead.

>> No.8784269

The tax sounds reasonable, "volunteer" work could do it too.
I don't people should suffer for another's fault just like that though.

>> No.8784436

The cost of health-care is high becasue of federal government interference and insurance companies in the first place, so what do want to do? ADD MORE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE AND INSURANCE.

You know the actual cost of the resources that make up a prosthetic leg are quite low, call it maybe $100 max including labor, yet they cost $1500+. Why?, the doctors, the Health and Drug inspectors, the company that delivers it becasue they have to have a special medical items delivery license, and they have their inspectors, and . . . it goes on . . . until you get an item that consist of $100 worth of metal and plastic that sells for $1500.

>> No.8784457

Paperpushers ruin everything.
Nothing new there.

>> No.8784477

Britfag living in Ireland here.
Secure in the knowledge I can't starve between periods of employment, need never worry about paying for medical care, and will receive monetary aid if I choose to pursue another degree.

Socialism: Feels good, man.

Shame the government is run by drooling idiots, and we'd be lost without the lower-level bureaucrats who actually run the damn nation.

>> No.8784511

>Shame the government is run by drooling idiots, and we'd be lost without the lower-level bureaucrats who actually run the damn nation.
Shame they keep coming back after every election, isn't it?

>> No.8784568

No, they shouldn't. But there's even less justification for them to benefit from the estate of some asshole who died while fucking up someone else's life.

Agreed. I have no illusions about the US health care system being perfect, but I don't trust the government to handle it any better than the private sector already has.

>> No.8784644

So what about cops, firefighters, prison guards, army etc.?

Would you get rid of them too and have them privatized like the health industry?

Then we'd go back to guys showing up to put the fire out and taking half of the worth of the house for themselves, because that's what doctors do with your body right now.

You know you owe your independence (overthrow of bad guys as you put it) to the French going in there and helping to remove the 'bad guys', right?

You know that all of your countrymen are your neighbors, right?

I bet you would have a problem with a county in Michigan telling the State Govt. to fuck off, right?
That's what you're trying to do to the Federal Govt.
States are not their own fucking countries.

>> No.8784791

Public services such as police/fire dept. are administered by the state, as is the right of state governments. Use of military force in the defense of the US is one of the few rights granted the federal government.

>States are not their own fucking countries.
Indeed, states are not individual nations- but they were meant to be something akin to it, at the very least. The original plan was for the federal government to provide oversight and foster cooperation among the individual states- similar to how the EU works, actually.

>> No.8784955

Fair enough, but the federal government has had a power creep since the writing of the Constitution, so they can and did pass the bill.

Whether the power creep and the bill are good or bad is up for debate.

About the states and the original plans.
"I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further." - Abe Lincoln


>> No.8785109

I think WW 1 & 2 cleared our debt to the French.

>> No.8785121

Wow. Someone who actually knows their shit. Welcome to the fight.

>> No.8785149

I didn't say anything about a debt.

I was pointing out that your "Change not earned slips away." post was bullshit.

America did not earn its independence by your standards.

>> No.8785229

There was blood. We paid in life. We had help from the enemies of our enemies, that help was not mandated by a greater power, just a couple of friends facing down the neighborhood bully. Change not earned does not necessarily slip away, buts its not valued.

>> No.8785257

And no i don', the city can tell the county to fuck off, teh county can tell teh state to fuck off and they all can tell the FED to go to hell. That's how it was supposed to work.

>> No.8785358

The freedoms of the few outweigh the safety of the many.

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