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78020245 No.78020245 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade - less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

>Previous Thread
>>77959938

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/75631028/#75663784

>Being called a FOE (False OSR Enthusiast)?
Report, hide, and ignore. Don't give those people (You)s - but likewise be mindful of whether you deserve it or not.

>Thread Question
Is the Rules Cyclopedia the best way to play Basic for someone who's never played before?

>> No.78020267
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78020267

>>77990440
>>77990440
Actual previous thread

>> No.78020332

>>78020245
>Is the Rules Cyclopedia the best way to play Basic for someone who's never played before?
No, that would be Mentzer Basic, followed by either the Black Box or the Classic D&D Game, any of which will do a decent job teaching a DM and players who are completely new.

>> No.78020344

>>78020245
I'd go with the OG Basic Box, but RC is the most complete version of BECMI... better than most clones. It's the best book for moving the game forward, but I'm not sure it's the best teaching tool.

>> No.78020377
File: 75 KB, 612x788, basic.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78020377

If you're reading this thread to find out what system is a good starting point for OSR play, the 1981 D&D Basic Set (along with the Expert set, often referred to together as B/X) is considered the gold standard by most of this thread. Read the original rulebooks to learn how to play, and you may find them to be good for playing with as well. If you find the original rulebooks unsatisfactory, or if you need physical copies, consider one of the following reworkings of the books (known as retroclones):
Old School Essentials
>most accurate to the original books
>great format
>relatively expensive
Basic Fantasy RPG
>mild adjustments to rules
>decent formatting
>cheap
Both these options also have System Reference Documents (SRDs) available online, for quickly finding rules without having to scan through the PDF/book.

>> No.78020506

>>78020245
Love this book, really simple and can just begin playing it.

>> No.78020550
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78020550

>>78020245
Isn't it just a compilation of all the Basic rules? Also what the fuck is that thing? It's cool but it doesn't seem to be a dragon or a purple worm

>> No.78020636

>>78020332
mentzer basic is maybe the best introductory D&D book of all time of any edition
honestly as much as I like B/X I don't really see the advantage over just using BE from the BECMI set

>> No.78020663

>>78020550

It's high adventure.

>> No.78020904

>>78019235
From previous thread. I only have players declare spells, all other actions are chosen as the phase shows up. But now thinking about it perhaps I should just use Declare any action up front. What do you do?

>> No.78021016

I'm thinking about PODing Moldvay basic, or maybe Mentzer basic. Has anybody else done this? I'm looking at the options on Lulu now and I've got now clue how big the paper should be, glossy or not glossy, should I pay for the premium color?

>> No.78021035

>>78020245
Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d8 (dice+1d8 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Pretty sure our OC gets archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com
Tag your post with [OC] to help archive anon find it, please.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a magic item
>6. Make a race or class
>7. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>8. Roll 2d8 and combine.

>> No.78021118
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>>78021016
Is Lulu better than Drive? I was thinking of printing off the Dark Sun box set and maybe those Dragonlance Adventures but I never actually read or played Dragonlance

>> No.78021491

>>78021118
Seems like POD from just about anybody is kind of a crapshoot, sometimes it's fine but sometimes there are mistakes and printing errors. I've got a hard cover of Whitebox FMAG from Drivethru coming hopefully sometime this week

>> No.78021588

>>78020245
One thing that confuses me about the OSR community is how some of the "core tenets" are completely divorced from the actual old school games.

The biggest example is the "rules light" manifesto, old-school DnD is pretty damn rules heavy. The cyclopedia has rules for everything.

>> No.78021619

>>78021016
Is there a guide for doing Lulu one-offs?

>> No.78021656

>>78021588
The attempt to make a monolithic 'this is what oldschool play is' statement that everyone falls under has inevitably failed. OSR play is many different forms of play in one.

>> No.78021735

>>78021619
that's kind of what I'm hoping for.
https://www.lulu.com/account/wizard/draft/start/print-book
Seems like you can totally print just single books from here. To test it I tried just uploading a pdf of Moldvay basic (with the cover cut off of course) but it spit out a bunch of warnings about some of the text being too small, images being too small dpi, blah blah blah
If it actually works, it isn't too expensive just to print a one off. But I've got no clue about paper size, binding, how to format the cover image... I don't want to pay for international shipping and wait two months just to find out it's fucked up and unreadable or something

>> No.78021760

>>78021588
You think all the rules are meant to be used?!

>> No.78021810

>>78010234
The Complete Warlock PDF is available at https://thetrove.is/ under "Warlock (osr)"

>> No.78021939

>>78020253
>New Thread, fucked up previous thread my bad
Yep.

>> No.78022415
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78022415

>>78018751
Did not realize until this moment that this pic is a reference to pic related.

>> No.78022626

>>78019235
>>78020904
Ditto: spells only. Declared at the start, resolved at the end unless interrupted (which everyone intelligent tries to do once they're declared).

>>78021016
A couple dozen or so threads back a guy said he did it and the text was kind of blurry, but otherwise it works.

>> No.78022683

>>78021735
This is a pdf I made specifically formatted to meet Lulu requirements (albeit based on another guy's comments; I haven't tried it myself, so let me know if it actually works).

https://tinyurl<dot>com/yzx6zb8n

>> No.78022819

>>78021016
>>78021735
>>78022683
Somebody should just make a decent print copy of B/X (hardcover ideally, IMO), leave it up but unlisted at-cost, and then link it here, like someone did for the OD&D digests.

>> No.78023077

>>78020332
I find that in trying to baby you, Mentzer Basic actually makes it harder to learn the game. It'll tease you with a piece of something, and then withhold the rest of it for a long time, effectively preventing you from looking into it further, and forcing you to learn at their pace rather than you're own. And reference-wise, those books are godawful. It's so hard to find shit. And I don't think that modern readers even need the babying (given familiarity with RPG-influenced computer games and just general cultural awareness).

Anyway, the Rules Cyclopedia gathers Mentzer Basic together into one place (rather than divided up into 9 different books... well, 7, since RC doesn't fuck with the Immortals Set), and lays things out in a more logical fashion, so that it's easier to reference. But putting everything into one place means there's a bunch of optional / noncore / secondary / extraneous shit mixed into the vital information, making the book considerably thicker and less easy to sift through. Which is why Moldvay Basic / Cook Expert (B/X) is considerably more accessible, and much better for noobs.

I can't really weigh in on retroclones or on black box Basic / the Classic D&D Game, because I'm not familiar enough with any of them, at least not from the standpoint of having carefully read through the explanations of the base rules (since I already know how the basic shit works), but of the old school editions I feel like I have a decent idea of, B/X easily comes out on top.

>> No.78023085

>>78021588
>the OSR community
That's one of your mistakes. OSR at this point and for some time, has been an umbrella term for several different communities that have some cross over but different origins, interests and methods.
Also seems like you could be making an assumption that old=old-school, which it does not.
Then you go and assume all the rules in the cyclopedia, or the ad&d dmg for another example, are meant to be used simultaneously. This is not the necessarily case. There are some who do RAW, and it is beneficial to try for a bit to see how it works before adjusting to your taste, rather than the norm.

>> No.78023305

>>78023077
>I find that in trying to baby you, Mentzer Basic actually makes it harder to learn the game.
Tbh, this is just a personality difference in how much guidance you prefer when learning. Moldvay is opted for Type A, Mentzer is opted for Type B. Neither is really better than the other when detached from this circumstance. (As opposed to e.g. AD&D, which is objectively worse for learning, or OD&D, which occupies some sort of perverse anti-pole of pessimal instructiveness.)

>> No.78023381

Replacing 1d20 for 2d6, thoughts?

>> No.78023647

>>78022683
based
I tried uploading it and it still shat out a few error messages about text size and so on. But it seems like it's letting me continue on to the printing stage regardless.
I'll play around with it and if I end up having it printed I'll post pics ITT for anyone else who's interested in doing the same thing. With covid it could take anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months (or more) for it to get to me though

>>78023381
Assuming you mean 2d6, add them together, compare to some kind of target number? I like it. Easily works with existing attribute modifiers, gives a nice bell curve so it's less swingy than d20. range is smaller so small modifiers have a bigger impact, good of OD&D stats

>> No.78023652

>>78023381
y tho?

>> No.78023699

>>78023647
>>78023652
thoughtsfag; don't reply

>> No.78023739

>>78021588
Another one is the meme that getting into fights is a loss condition... you vastly get less XP for unguarded treasure.

>> No.78023759

>>78023381
>thoughts?
Begone, Thoughtsfag

>> No.78023784

>>78023739
plus it seems kind of shitty to design your game so that getting into a fight is a loss condition... and then make one of the character classes the "fighting-man".
I don't think many people actually used fractional XP for gold though

>> No.78024107

>>78023784
>I don't think many people actually used fractional XP for gold though
I think anon maybe meant the "unguarded treasure" rolls on the dungeon stocking table

>> No.78024240

Is it worth taking into account a systems rules when designing a dungeon? For example, if monsters stop pursuit after losing sight then you might be inclined to use more straight halls. Does this become too restrictive or does it improve play, harmonising the dungeon and the system?

>> No.78024640

>>78024240
In the realm of TSR compatible games, the rules are so similar that it shouldn't matter that much.

A party of AD&D2e characters might be more likely to survive a few fights at low level, and have some novel tricks at higher level, but they're not stunningly different.

On the other hand--I think the invention of the thief class nudged designers to place more traps and locks and such, because otherwise the thief is just a weak fighter. So the thief went from being an odd alternate class to being part of the "classic adventuring party".

>> No.78024911

>>78024107
yeh if there's no monster, you get reduced xp, if the monster is too weak for the PCs, you get reduced xp. Puzzling rule, I hate "fight = loss condition" but those are so rare, I might just give full XP anyway...

>>78023784
A good point

>> No.78025070

>>78023381
Based, especially if using the Man-to-Man table

>> No.78025083

how do I find an OSR to play with online?
where do I go?
I want to play an OSR sandbox... I have no resources...

>> No.78025104

>>78025083
Do you have friends? Friends into RPGs? You have all you need.

>> No.78025203

>>78021588
cyclopedia is interesting, but it's full of dross. Rules heavy is relative--compared to 3.5, which requires the player to chart out several levels of progress to excel at "tripping", B/X is minimal and rules light.

"Rulings over rules" is overmemed, but hints at the idea that players can attempt many open ended actions, rather than being strictly limited to the options on the character sheet. There are no rules for bribing the orc boss with a giant wheel of exotic cheese, so the GM has to make a ruling. Where the rules are clear, it's generally good to stick to them, because it allows the gameworld to 'makes sense', which gives the players the freedom to make informed choices instead of just goofing through a funhouse where a potted plant does 5d6 damage because it was funny one time.

>> No.78025233

>>78025083
Should we link the discord’s again?

>> No.78025245

>>78024240
That level of detail is rarely required. Treasure / XP ratios, monster damage, expected HP of a party, access to problem-solving tools like teleportation and area-of-effect spells, all contribute to dungeon design.

>> No.78025283

>>78023784
Isn't the "fight = loss" idea based on the concept of resource management? HP, spell slots, equipment and manpower? That idea only gets you so far in terms of collecting the riskless treasure (the scraps), the good stuff is always behind a few fights because risk vs reward is core to the principle of engaging game play.
Also known as 'Losing is fun', according to some OSR theorists.

>> No.78025352

B/X is a very minimal document. Only 7 characters can be created with minor variations in terms of stats and there are only two modes of play, dungeon crawling and hex crawling. Rules Cyclopedia IMO is a more complete game that supports more styles and modes of play. There’s no denying that it simply has more content for new players to get into without having to invent it themselves. The breadth of content of the Rules Cyclopedia, coupled with its strong foundation with the Basic D&D rules, is its greatest strength.

>> No.78025504
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78025504

>>78023305
Honestly I find the best way to learn a system, old or new, is to read the core book completely and try to compile an essay or cheat sheet to check if I got the designer's logic completely. I mean from my experience, most of the editors sucks in this industry.

>> No.78025546

>>78025352
Limiting character choices is almost always good. Even with seven classes, their niches are blurred. Stuff like Cavalier and Thief Acrobat have high ability prerequisites so that they only come up on occasion, when an experienced player gets some lucky rolls and wants to try something different.

>> No.78025548

>>78025283
>Isn't the "fight = loss" idea based on the concept of resource management? HP, spell slots, equipment and manpower?
It does, but that's a bit too much nuance for people that just want to gripe.

>> No.78025759

>>78025504
The best way to learn a system is to play a session, realize that you can’t remember the rules, frantically look through the books and try to make something up on the spot, then look back after the session and realize that you messed everything up.
Or at least, that’s how I do it.

>> No.78025859
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78025859

>>78025352
>Only 7 characters can be created with minor variations in terms of stats
If you're worried about that, why play any edition of Basic? Even with all the Gazetteers and Creature Crucibles in play you're still not going to get the mechanical range you would if you switched over to the race-and-class branch.

>> No.78026146

>>78025859
>>78025546
The problem is, the two of you are thinking in terms of extremes.
The RC and core AD&D both provide a middle ground, depending on how you feel about race-as-class

>> No.78026160

I’d call the RC “rules medium”, actually.

>> No.78026176

>>78022415
That's pretty fucking cool. Origin of the grimy dirtfuck

>> No.78026303

>>78025548
I think it's worth drawing a distinction between high and low level play here
At levels 1 and 2, you just don't have enough HP to consider them a resource to be managed. after all, your HD are rolled on the same kinds of dice you use for weapon damage. Even the fighter can survive maybe a hit or two if he gets lucky with HD rolls. And he's just as likely to get unlucky.
Even after you level up a bit and get enough HP to where combat is technically an option, all it takes is a couple of bad dice rolls, or one monster in the back row with a ranged weapon decides to take a shot at the magic user.

If you get into a fight and it's not clearly, 100% stacked in your favor, to the point it's barely worth rolling the dice, then you fucked up. Combat is basically a really long saving throw

>> No.78026379

>>78026303
I typed all that out and forgot to add "and that's a GOOD thing"

>> No.78026703

>>78020636
The only reason to not use BE as your introductory game is if you already have a physical copy of BX which seem easier to find in my experience.

>> No.78026706

I could use some advice on how to make non fight encounters last longer? Cause my players keep breezing though them. Like a rolled a gate man who was a step above indifferent, and despite making him as gross and unsavory as I could, they just paid his shakedown prices in like 2 minutes and moved on. The only time they seem interested involves a lot of prep figuring out what they would know and tell them. Maybe I'm just being a gentle touch, but I feel like I am missing something.

>> No.78026710

>>78020245
What’s the best course of action if a magic item or intelligent creature simultaneously pings good and evil from alignment detection Magic’s

>> No.78026766

>>78020245

I sold a legit original copy of this on ebay about 5 years ago as I thought it was outdated and hadnt played an rpg for over 20 years. Couple of years later got back into rpgs, discovered OSR and lo and behold, its now something I bitterly regret.

>> No.78026815

>>78026706
Next time the gate man and his mates should be there waiting for the adventurers, then as word spreads all the urchins and paupers follow them in the street, begging for coppers. When they get a reputation for generosity, perhaps even the tax men drop by to see where all this reckless spending is coming from!

>> No.78026890

>>78021588
Your confusion arises from thinking that the RC has anything whatsoever to do with the osr

>> No.78026981

>>78026706
Don’t force your players to engage in systems that they don’t find fun

>> No.78027090

>>78026981
this but the opposite.
make them suffer and force them to enjoy it.

>> No.78027648

>>78026890
Spicy

>> No.78028298

>>78026766
What do original printings go for on the secondary market go for these days? I still have mine that I bought a B. Dalton Books at Lake Forrest Mall in 1991.

>> No.78028305

>>78026890
Considering RC is a merely a rewritten rules variant of BX I consider it OSR just like all TSR editions.

>> No.78028403

>>78028305
So you're ignorant, doesn't make it belong in the osr

>> No.78028530

The most significant difference is that BECMI runs from level 1-36 + Immortality. B/X takes you from 1-14. (A world where power-levels top out around level 12-14 is more my speed, but that's a matter of personal taste.)

The Mentzer Basic set (BECMI) is perhaps the best introduction ever written to any edition of D&D. It does an extremely good job of explaining role-playing games to 10 year old kids. The Moldvay Basic set (B/X) is far more concise, but IMO is a poor introductory text.

>> No.78028695

Are Magic Users limited to having only as many spells in their book as they may learn? I would see no reason as to why, in Vance Wizards hoarded spells but only manahed to learn two or three.

>> No.78029037

>>78028695
MU can have many spells in their book but may only memorize a fixed amount per level per day.

>> No.78029206

>>78026303
>>78026379
I never really liked (nor have my players) having 1-hit wonder characters. I've always found levels 2-3 infinitely more interesting, because you stop being completely subject to the whims of the dice and can actually make tactical/strategical decisions. 2 hitpoints are not a resource to manage; if you're hit, you're almost certainly dead.
This also holds for CRPGs.

>> No.78029287

>>78029206
For me it’s the challenge and/or luck of surviving from 1st level that really makes a player feel invested in their character.
You hand someone a 3rd level character and if he dies they just make another 3rd level character vs. the 1st level guy they kept alive to make it to third that risks losing it all on ever adventure.

>> No.78029612
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78029612

Catching up on the last few threads. I think you folks thing I visit a lot more frequently than I do. Oh well.
>>78028695
Typically, it's as many spells as you'd like in a book (up to a limit, usually 10 or 20), with a limited number of memorized slots. The choice/risk is picking the right ones and carrying your valuable library of spells with you. Do you leave some at base in case you lose your book or need to upgrade your apprentice to a replacement PC?

>> No.78029676

>>78029612
So the question is why are you not visiting more frequently?

>> No.78029763

>>78028403
Spicier

>> No.78029788
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78029788

>>78029676
A mystery for the ages...

>> No.78029918
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78029918

If a magic user wanted to invent or found a spell that can be cast to improve the power of other magic spells; what sort of mechanics would this have? What's the best way of doing a "power up" spell?

>> No.78029953
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78029953

>>78029918
Risk/reward. Adds X damage, doubles X effect, but a) you need to spend 1 round casting it before you cast the spell and b) when you cast the spell, if you (say) roll a 6 on a d6, something goes wrong.

GLOG magic has variable spells and spellpower adjustments. Nick the whole magic system if you'd like.

>> No.78029954

>>78029287
I see that, but also there's the feeling of each new character being "just more meat for the unavoidable grinder" (since you can't actually be more tactically/strategically cautious, just flee from absolutely everything and hope you don't get 1hko'd in a surprise round).
I don't see why you can't have that same experience with a character that rises from 3rd to 6th level, for example.

>> No.78030000

>>78029954
You actually answered your own question. It’s the stakes. I have much less chance of advancing from 1st to 3rd than I do advancing from 3rd to 6th. That which we are given too easily we esteem too lightly. I derive quite a bit of austic satisfaction knowing my PC earned every level. No quarter was given and none was asked for. I lived by my wits and won!

>> No.78030093

>>78030000
Nothing is actually earned though, because it's bestowed on you through pure luck rather than clever(er) play. It's why in blackjack you have to decide to ask for more cards or stand, rather than just get dealt a predetermined number of cards; it's much more exciting that way, when it's you who has to gauge the risk of pushing your luck.
Also
>I have must less chance of advancing from 1st to 3rd than I do advancing from 3rd to 6th
This is very debatable, and has more to do with your DM's play/adventure style than the game itself.

>> No.78030104

Just finished playing a 3-4 hour first session of BECMI and the DM gave away 3 +1 weapons to a 1st level party of 5 people. Should I leave his game? I'm being 100% serious

>> No.78030137

>>78030104
Yes, you shouldn't taint this nice game with your faggotry

>> No.78030236

>>78030093
>because it's bestowed on you through pure luck rather than clever(er) play
NAYRT, but this is only true if you keep hurling yourself into situations where the dice determine the outcome, or if your referee is bad and forces you into such cases. Playing cleverly has a great deal to do with avoiding the dice, especially on low levels where attrition can't be used tactically.

>> No.78030244

>>78028298

Not a clue desu. I do remember being quite surprised, I think it went for around £50. Id assume it would be much more these days.
Also sold VtM 1e, Realm of chaos slaves to darkness, and WFRP 1e.
I'm going to say dont do it, you'll probably just regret selling it later. Still got my Shadowrun 2e though.

>> No.78030271

>>78030236
that's the point though: at low levels, a single attack can easily kill you. Combat is a situation where dice determine the outcome, so you should never ever get into combat if there is any other option. This is a feature, not a bug

>> No.78030292

>>78030104
If the tables gave them the tables gave them.

>> No.78030342
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78030342

Working on a new hexmap, keep making new one so never like them. I find it hard to draw in labels or write toen names. Need a smaller pen I guess. I also want to know if I should be doing little trees for forest or if that curly hatching is better. What do you guys think?

>> No.78030351
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78030351

From imagine magazine :

>Cowie ended his review by stating that "Basic is a lot closer to the spirit of the original game than is the rambling, unwieldy and sometimes pompous Advanced" and that "for one-off dungeon type games I would recommend Basic to anyone, beginner and veteran alike."

Discuss.

>> No.78030383

>>78030342
i think you should use software for this purpose if you plan on sharing this map with players as its currently difficult to parse

>> No.78030422

>>78030104
Did you enjoy the game? If so - I'd hang out: the DM may prefer a higher magic, higher power game - or it might be a fluke of the tables - but I would only leave if it started to be a bad experience.

>> No.78030473

>>78030422
Dem tables man

>table gives a result of 20k+GP
>party misses the secret door

>> No.78030488

>>78030383
I'll put it into software eventually. I want to make an infinitely scalable hexmap but I have difficulty coming up with coordinates because 0,0 origin is kinda weird. I considered double letters but I dunno about that. There's a 3 coordinate system you can use for hexes but I don't like that either. I will eventually put this into software. I like hexmlas because they are easy to copy and replicate.

>> No.78030490

>>78030244
I would never sell my books especially not original materials I acquired as a lad.

>> No.78030543

>>78030490
Good man. I have explicit instructions in my last will and testament for the disposition of my considerable RPG library. Only after my friends and family take their pick, with my two boys getting first choice will the remainder of my rare materials be donated to the Strong Museum of Play in Rochester, NY.

>> No.78030616

>>78030271
What did I write that made you think I disagree with that?

>> No.78030647

>>78030351
I agree. Dnd was meant for dungeon crawling not muh thespian wankery. But I still find myself wanting that for domain level play. Especially after reading Game of Thrones and getting into hexcrawls autism.

>> No.78030660

I'm brainstorming a homebrew that creates a new stat: Exhaustion. Depending on context, you either add to exhaustion as a cost or roll above exhaustion as a requirement. Instead of spellslots, spells cost exhaustion or require a successful exhaustion check.
Fighters have the ability to add exhaustion to do maneuvers akin to DCC Mighty Deeds. Fighters can also receive exhaustion instead of receiving damage. Thieves use exhaustion checks to do their thief abilities.
You can use exhaustion costing activities if your exhaustion is above your constitution( or equivalent) score.
I'm also considering allowing Martials to acquire exhaustion to re-roll saves, attacks, open door, etc.

To get an idea
>Martial does a successful attack, rolls 2 damage on the die
>The player can decide to take 2 exhaustion, if they do they immediately disarm their opponent.
>Next, the fighter is hit for 8 damage from the enemy. That would be lethal, so the fighter decides to receive 8 exhaustion instead.
>Fighter has 12 Con, and they are currently at 10 exhaustion. They can afford 2 more points of exhaustion.

>> No.78030690

>>78030647
>D&D was meant for dungeon crawling only
>classes get keeps, towers, and thieves guilds by leveling up.
OK. Combat was also meant to be horrible and completely avoided and Hit dice increased with level so that you'd suffer longer.

>> No.78030962

>>78030342
Make your hexes sightly bigger.
Use a finer point pencil you can smuggle into work.
Write names of places in ALLCAPS in a bold colour you only use for names, don't worry if it takes up more than one hex for the name just center it on the area.
Use a stencil or print out unless drawing the hexes is autismally satisfying but even then.

>> No.78031049

Before I go give Greg Gillespie more Barrowmaze money on his latest Kickstarter Dwarrowdeep what are my options for dwarf themed mega dungeons? I saw that MERP had a Moria book. Any OSR or TSR stuff?

>> No.78031068

>>78030473
>>party misses the secret door
This happens with my group a lot. I am considering just telegraphing secret doors in a similar was I do traps, more as puzzles, so they actually find the damn things.

>> No.78031186

>>78031068
Send a monster out behind them. Or maybe they catch a monster using a secret door. Or maybe a mouse or water can be observed coming or going from a place it shouldn’t. A draft of warm or cold air, a waft of a cooking fire or perhaps hearing sounds coming through a wall.

>> No.78031298

>>78030236
>>78030236
Eventually you're going to be surprised by a random encounter, and probably killed before you can even react. This is completely unavoidable.

That aside, the idea of '1-hit hp making you avoid combat' as a superior mechanic is a meme. It only forces you to cheese every encounter you actually need to fight (because some things can't be reasoned with or avoided), often repeating the same strategy over and over. When you are level 3 with 3d6 hit points (as per OD&D) you aren't a behemoth that can take any amount of punishment; you have to gauge which fights you can actually fight and which are a waste of resources. A few kobolds CAN still score a kill or put you into a situation where you next fight can mean death for you. When they refuse onebof your demands you have to think whether physically force them to obey you is worth it; a 1st level party simply can never afford to make such a choice, it has already been made for you by virtue of your mechanical statistics: a fight against an equal number of kobolds is suicide.
Even matched against an equal force, a 3rd level party still has choices to make during the fight. Since hits are not instant kills retreating to prevent losses becomes an option, whereas 1st level parties can only retreat after losses have been incurred and often they are forced to (if the enemy gets 2 hits and you lose 2/5 fighters, the battle is hopeless already and all you can do is avoid a TPK)

>> No.78031565

i'm putting together a campaign where the players are part of a mercenary group on the aggressor side in a military invasion of a country. are there any published books that go over this kind of thing? i'm using 1st ed ad&d

>> No.78031772
File: 150 KB, 640x450, tumblr_nkuzp5sNqc1tv4rl5o1_1280[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78031772

I've been itching to run a Megadungeon for a while and Stonehell looks really interesting. Is Labyrinth Lord a good system for dungeon crawling? All my OSR games so far have been hexcrawling exploration/survival with very little dungeon delving.

>> No.78032157

>>78030351
Moldvay Basic was written specifically in reaction against AD&D and as an attempt to re-format OD&D. It implicitly rejects a lot of the design decisions of AD&D.

>> No.78032222

>>78027090
If you do this you will shortly find yourself without players

>> No.78032344

>>78031772
Labyrinth Lord is royalty-free B/X. It was one of the big OSR systems but has been superseded by Old School Essentials because OSE is even more accurate to B/X.

So yes, Labyrinth Lord is a good system for dungeon crawling

>> No.78032517

>>78031772
Any B/X-clone is good for dungeon crawling.

>> No.78032570

>>78030690
>Combat was also meant to be horrible and completely avoided
If this is true, then why is so much of the book dedicated to making it fun?

>> No.78032780

>>78032344
From what I remember LL was testing the waters of the limits of IP law as far as BX went. The minor changes made were intentional. The one that always comes to mind for me is that LL clerics get a 1st level spell whereas BX clerics do not.

>> No.78032940

>>78032570
It’s a over statement. Combat isn’t a fail state. But combat should be treated with seriousness and careful planning by the PCs. Never fight the enemy on their terms and always have the upper hand through guile, treachery, superior numbers, ambush.

>> No.78033151

>>78030351
>tfw a german with his "ultra-realistic" setting turned me off all hexcrawls and domain play
>fully on the dungeon train now with friends who are just as autistic as me
>games turned to big dungeon parades, sometimes exploring multiple in parallel because they're interconnected

>> No.78033186

>>78031049
The best Dwarf themed mega I've found is the one you make yourself no joke.

>> No.78033251

>>78030962
I hadn't thought of a stencil...that's a good idea.

>> No.78033635

>>78031772
Keep in mind that any B/X clone (or the original, of course) is 'compatible' with Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry, OSE, etc etc etc. There's a metric shitload of modules to run and play with

>> No.78033662

>>78033186
Yeah, yeah the ole “why have us do any more of our imagining for you” thanks Anon. :-/
Judges Guild Glory Hole Dwarven Mine.

>> No.78033682

>>78033635
Are they all pretty interchangeable or does one stand out?

>> No.78033886
File: 74 KB, 564x693, 1614806150386.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78033886

>>78033682
Interchangeable. The rules differences are negligible.
The biggest 'difference' is that OSE uses THAC0 instead of attack matrix .

If you nab OSE, you'll be covered on all fronts.

>> No.78033931

What would be a dungeon that would be the most stereotypical dungeon, like the kind that would come to mind if someone only knew vaguely of D&D would think of?

>> No.78033967
File: 1.02 MB, 2480x3508, room14.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78033967

https://leveldrain.com/2021/03/11/crawling-sideways/

Made more rooms for the dungeon in my upcoming book. Feedback is more than welcome.

>> No.78034295

>>78033931
The goblin's den?

>> No.78034338

>>78033931
The intro dungeon in Mentzer’s Red Box

The dungeon of Zander Tem from “The Classic D&D Game”

Greyhawk Ruins

Undermountain

>> No.78034425
File: 614 KB, 1400x1082, 1615153659859.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78034425

>>78033931

>> No.78035114

>>78034425
DESU I think this dungeon looks fun. I'll save it and try to run it.

>> No.78035327

>>78034425
Legit, that looks kinda fun

>> No.78035441

>>78030351
D&D Basic is, to me, wholly superior to AD&D.

>> No.78035456
File: 100 KB, 500x434, German Life.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78035456

>>78033151
He's German. What did you expect?

>> No.78036094

>>78033931
Sanctuary Ruin for LL is a good vote for 'simple, well made typical goblin dungeon'.
>>78034425
This always strikes me more as a meme dungeon than a stereotypical dungeon but there might be less difference between those things now that I think about it.

>> No.78037288
File: 7 KB, 486x604, f2323.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78037288

I have a VERY important question which should go into some big /osrg/ tip booklet some day.

How loud does a verbal spell have to be and how intense are the movements for a somatic spell? Let's take for example the mage wants to cast the 1st level spell Charm Person on the inn keeper standing right in front of him. Which according to most OSR system would take one round, which is 10 seconds. Would he be making the required hand motions behind his back and muttering something from the corner of his mouth while focusing on the inn keeper who is staring right back at him? What happens if he fails the spell will the inn keeper someone is trying to mess with his mind? Do higher level spells require the caster to speak at the top of his lungs and move their arms around in an intricate fashion?

>> No.78037342

>>78037288
I actually wondered about that a little while ago.
I think a good way to go about this subject is: "You can either cast it relatively fast (one round) but extremely obvious, or take a longer time (3 rounds? turn?) to prepare the spell quietly and fire it when ready - no other spells may be cast until you cast this one"

>> No.78037496

Do any of you like using any of the optional material from Dragon Mag? I've recently started playing with the optional rules for perception ability scores from issue #133, and I feel like it's filled a hole in a lot of what I do. Any other optional rules you guys can't live without?

>> No.78037613

>>78037496
Holy shit I just started using that as well, I replaced the Reaction DEX bonus with the high Perception bonus since otherwise DEX becomes just too OP in AD&D. Yeah I've snipped a bunch of spells and little ideas here and there reading Dragon magazine is one of life's little pleasures (for me at least)

>> No.78037943

>"official" troves have been inactive for at least 2 years now
>bytee's trove is now hidden behind several coded links and allsync disabled in-browser PDFs
What's an honest pirate to do?

>> No.78037977

>>78037288
It's your game, decide for yourself

>> No.78038063

>>78037943
Why would you need an up-to-date trove to play 1980s RPGs anon?

>> No.78038178

>>78020267
Is Dark Sun OSR?

>> No.78038216

>>78037943
>several coded links
there's literally one link and the password stopped changing a week ago

>> No.78038278

>>78030104
One of my players was lucky and got a vorpal blade at level 4. Yet he hasn't been able to hit a single creature affected by it for 2 level (he is level 6 now). Chance comes, chance goes. If it's fun, keep playing.

>> No.78038763

>>78038178
If 2nd Ed is yes

>> No.78039698

>>78034425
fucking Bargle

>> No.78040080

>>78029788
Yes by giving up we win!

>> No.78040157

>>78037496
Yes, in the past we tended to use all the optional rules from DrMag we could.

>> No.78040241

Trying to make my own OSR inspired game, meant for more tactical engagements (particularly: monsters defending against adventurers).

Problem: I find that if the rules are ANYTHING like OSR's, then Fireball wizards > all on the invader side, and dragon breath weapons > all on the creature side.

In general, using anything short of weapon mastery tends to make me feel really bad for fighter types over wizard types.

>> No.78040308

>>78040241
>In general, using anything short of weapon mastery tends to make me feel really bad for fighter types over wizard types.
At least Fighters have that
Look at Thieves the poor bastards, I never found Rangers too hot either especially considering how hard they are to qualify for

>> No.78040466

>>78031049
>TSR stuff
For true megadungeon size, the closest you're probably going to get is taking something like Dwarven Kingdoms of Krynn and turning it into a dungeon. L3 - Deep Dwarven Delve would seem to fit, but it's only three floors deep. V3 - Dwarven Glory from Pacesetter might have similar size problems.

>> No.78040629

>>78032940
>always have the upper hand through guile, treachery, superior numbers, ambush.
Just having the upper hand isn't enough, if enemies get a single turn they can kill a 1st level character without you even having a chance to respond. You can roleplay and lay down plans and set things up as favorably as you want, but eventually the DM is going to say "roll initiative" and then you're at the mercy of the dice. None of your clever planning is going to do anything to stop a skeleton archer from making an attack roll. Even at mid level, it just takes a couple of bad rolls. A level 3 thief has on average like 6-7 HP? If he tries for a back stab and the target doesn't die...
I think of combat the same way as save-or-die effects. It seems brutal to face a falling boulder trap where your character just dies if you fail a saving throw, right? But the idea is you should exercise player skill, ask the DM lots of questions about the environment, and try to avoid putting yourself in a situation where your fate rests on a die roll outside of your control. Ideally you find a way to avoid the trap without rolling dice.

>> No.78040797
File: 82 KB, 990x700, 49B505AA-070D-451A-859A-AA2324092EE5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78040797

>>78020245
Is it a good idea to give a veteran magic user npc the visual appearance of a little girl but the voice of an old man

>> No.78040798
File: 146 KB, 555x1194, The OSR.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78040798

>>78040080
You win! You get to wear the conical paper hat.

>> No.78040935

>>78040466
Gunderholfen is an abandoned dwarf hold.

>> No.78040966

What's the best monster manual you've used? Why do you like it so much? I'm looking for some options.

>> No.78041177

>>78040966
The monster manual

>> No.78041289

>>78029918
Cumbersome components and set up. Maybe two pounds of candles per spell level to be improved, must be arranged in an area and lit with an incantation spoken. After this spells are doubled in effect, and the candles quickly burn 1/10th of the way out per spell level.

>> No.78041434

>>78026981
Its not that they aren't having fun, they are just burning through my material. Last week they went through 2 weeks of prepared content more or less. That's not a sustainable way to run these games. >>78026815
Thats not a bad idea, and I have been getting better at extrapolating on consequences for their actions, they've also been playing very cautiously, which I might not think of in the heat of the moment.

>> No.78041471

>>78030660
First thing to ask yourself is what you’re hoping this modification will accomplish. I see a major problem in that you are unifying class ability usage underneath an ability score, which is usually determined randomly, and skewing the internal balance of how a class functions.
Fighters fight until they run out of HP, wizards cast their daily allotment, and thieves get their abilities in perpetuity. There’s already a consistency that exists with that structure and monkeying with it, particularly when it relies on an existing random numeric, is going to create headaches for you without intensive analysis and balancing.
That being said the idea isn’t terrible but maybe you want to refine it into something less universal, if you follow. Consider charging fighters HP for combat maneuvers. HP already represents building exhaustion to some extent so why not lean into that. That scheme doesn’t help with the damage absorption aspect you mentioned but if you really want that there are other ways.
I wouldn’t make thief abilities resource based at all. They’re already shafted by low skill scores, mediocre combat stats, and fragility.
If you want wizards to be able to overcast make them burn ability score points and make saves. I don’t use Vancian at my table but I regulate overcasting pretty hard and having a floating value, particularly one based on a random ability score, is just bad news.

>> No.78041548

>>78040966
the mystara 2e one has some good monsters that aren't too out there

>> No.78041575

>>78041471
>Consider charging fighters HP for combat maneuvers
It kind of makes sense like you said as HP can represent a lot of things (including stamina) but making fighters pay HP to do fighter things seems like a straight downgrade. They would have to be pretty fucking good/strong maneuvers to make it worth it. I would hate to make them pay HP to do Mighty Deeds for example, which DCC warriors can do for free turn after turn.

>> No.78041697

>>78037288
Verbal and somatic components are generally considered obvious even if the target or observers don’t know their significance. Casting a spell right in front of the target makes it pretty obvious what’s going on. I’ve always ruled that making a save against a spell means you know you’ve been targeted by magic but not necessarily the origin. But if the guy was just standing in front of you laying down some gibberish and flashing gang signs it’s not a mystery where the flush of arcane power came from.

>> No.78041809
File: 99 KB, 619x805, DCC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78041809

Is it okay to talk about DCC here?

Haven't played a fantasy RPG since AD&D2e way back in high school (before everyone went WoD and then traveller and then...etc etc).

Heard good things about dungeon crawl classics but also debating old school essentials b/x or just going back to ad&d second edition. If anyone can give me a quick summary of the pros and cons of DCC and what else i should get beyond the main book, that would be great. I plan on running the game for my close friends, homebrew setting but 90% dungeon crawling my table.

Cheers

>> No.78041950

>>78023381
Begone varg, your game is not OSR.

>> No.78041983

>>78041575
>I would hate to make them pay HP to do Mighty Deeds for example, which DCC warriors can do for free turn after turn.
So the point of Exhaustion is to have a currency to charge characters for special maneuvers divorced from existing stats? My point stands if that’s the case. Don’t base it on CON.
If you want fighters to have some more juice just give it to them. Don’t fart around with number schemes and new resource tracks. The Mighty Deeds ability works fine without numeric tracking. If you’re worried about abuse tell them it’s exhausted when they roll a 6 until after the next 10 minute rest.

>> No.78041989

>>78041809
I haven't played DCC, but the common complaints I've seen here have been the lack of proper dungeon crawl procedures and the design of the game not really lending itself to longer campaigns, but if you can work around those I suspect it would be a lot of fun.

>> No.78041999

>>78041809
Just run ose

>> No.78042139

>>78041809
>homebrew setting but 90% dungeon crawling my table.
DCC is a ton of fun and it has a lot of crazy adventures. It's my favorite modern game outside of retroclones.

I hate to say it because I love DCC and think everybody should try it, but if you intend to do mostly dungeon crawls I don't know if I'd recommend it. Despite the name, it has a distinct lack of dungeon crawl procedures like >>78041989 said. It's more about gonzo heavy metal craziness. There aren't procedures for torch duration, wandering monsters, xp for gold, the list goes on.
In terms of modern adventure design, Sailors on the Starless Seas is awesome. But in terms of classic dungeon crawling, it's way too linear.

You could run DCC and import the dungeon crawl procedures from OSE I guess. Or you could just run OSE.

>> No.78042228

>>78041809
Pros
-one book
-old school flavor
-wealth of modules

Cons
-excessive tables
-stupid funky dice chain
-lacking old school fundamentals
-lacks compatibility with other OSR material
-lolrandumb content

I don’t care for it myself. I think because it was an early push to return to old school style play it gets points as an OSR game but it misses a lot of key points and has way too much chaff in its published material and rules.

>> No.78042282

>>78041809
>Is it okay to talk about DCC here?
It's off-topic as it's not OSR. People do anyway and it often starts fights.

It's a 500ish page book that's more designed for con games than for actual play, as it's designed to make you die in dumb ways rather than reward you for not dying. Many modules. Not really compatible with OSR stuff. Lacking most of the rules that make OSR effective. Funky DRM dice. Lots of tables- I've heard there's an app for that, but that requires having phones or computers at the table and that's a big no-no.

I'd recommend picking up B/X or something related if you want dungeon crawling.

>> No.78042288

>>78040966
The AD&D trio (MM, MMII, Fiend Folio) still holds up. Veins of the Earth for underground stuff, Fire on the Velvet Horizon for weird ideas. A random sampling of 3.5/PF/5E bestiaries can also be handy for random concepts or tools.

>> No.78042310

>>78037288
Personally I lean towards magic requiring big, emphatic gestures and speech.

Charm potions and such can be administered on the sly.

>>78030660
I use HP as a 'fighter mana' stat, which they can sacrifice to do stunts, called shots, etc.

D&D always made weak use of the numbers on the sheet, and I don't see a good reason to add more.

>> No.78042324

>>78042310
>Personally I
You know that everything you do is something you do personally, right? You don't need the first word. "I do X", "I lean towards X" is enough.

>> No.78042434

Any good hex mapping programs? I used Hexographer for a long while but it's just too old and clunky. Better to do it on paper than use that thing.

>> No.78042447

>>78042324
Personally, I don't mind when people use the word "personally".

>>78042434
GIMP. Bonus: it can also be used for pixel art or computer drawing.

>> No.78042521

>>78042310
>use HP as a 'fighter mana' stat, which they can sacrifice to do stunts, called shots, etc.

I’ve used this for a long time because of my years of Microlite20 DMing. How do you reconcile HP vs healing spells? I’ve got my own methods but I’m always curious what other people get up to.

>> No.78042665

>>78041989
>>78042139
>>78042228
>>78042282
Alright thanks for steering me guys, thats super helpful
>>78041999
digits of truth

i missed the OSE kickstarter last year i think i'll have to wait for a new printing, sadly

>> No.78042772

>>78042665
they're still selling the combined rules tome

>> No.78043049

>>78040797
Stupid. Slightly magical realm. Par for the gonzo.
Depending on your players tolerance and reception to weebshit you could get interesting.. and slightly differing results

>> No.78043078

>>78042772
Aye, i noticed but it doesn't come with the four supplement books so I was debating waiting for the new complete volume.

But i also want to keep it simple, so maybe I don't want all the extra options. Nobody plans on playing a druid etc, and I can get the added monster rules via pdf

>> No.78043143

>>78023784
They just use "Combat is a lose-conidition" as an excuse as to why the Fighting-man is terrible

>> No.78043209
File: 174 KB, 809x1070, 16868.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78043209

Is AD&D 2e (revised) the game to play? Are there other versions of AD&D or OSR games that do what its trying to do but better? I particularly like the ethos of the game and the lethality of the games.

I tried Dungeon Crawl Classics. I like it, but there were some aspects of it that strayed too far away from the D&D I know and love.

>> No.78043309
File: 140 KB, 900x1165, M&M.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78043309

>>78043209
If you're looking for a retroclone of 2e, For Gold & Glory is a solid choice that uses a much more readable format. It also combines all three core books into one.

But when I'm in a 2e mood, I run Myth & Magic, which is a reimagining that uses modern d20 sensibilities but keeps really closely to the spirit of the original. It's an amazing system that sadly isn't very well known, partly because its reputation was scarred by a horrible Kickstarter campaign.

>> No.78043349

>>78043209
2e is a fantasy world simulator. AD&D 1e exists and is arguably more lethal and focused on dungeon crawling, but the mechanics of 1e are more complicated and the rules have some outright contradictions. YMMV

I second For Gold & Glory. It’s my personal favorite expression of the 2e rules and it makes for an excellent at-the-table reference

>> No.78043503

>>78043143
>as an excuse as to why the Fighting-man is terrible
I read a blog arguing that if you actually use the Chainmail combat resolution in OD&D, the fighting-man is actually really good. (I don't fully understand Chainmail so I can't vouch for this myself) As he gains levels, not only does he get multiple attacks, more damage, more accuracy, but he actually AVOIDS taking damage better too.
In the "alternate combat system" (the one they went forward with) Armor Class is what you use to avoid getting hit, and doesn't get better with levels, just with better gear. The ACS kind of screws the fighter a lot, which is a trend that continues to this day

>> No.78043578

>>78037288
If a PC can speak, they can execute a verbal component of a spell. If they have free use of their hands AND arms, they can do the somatic component. No use getting more in the weeds than that.

>> No.78043617

>>78030660
Honestly in terms of Stamina Systems, I think knave, and by extension the Dark Souls hack Grave got it right with Stamina = unused inventory space. That way it makes more sense for wizards to not wear armor because wearing armor tires them out for their spells.

>> No.78043653

>>78038063
To play with new material, you boob

>> No.78043665

>>78037943
>allsync disabled in-browser PDFs
What the hell is the problem, just fucking use sumatrapdf
you understand you're still dowloading the file even if you're just using it in browser? It's not like you can "stream" a pdf

>> No.78043700

>>78041809
It's a game that's diesnged from the ground up for "Convention play", so every roll is designed to generated the maximum, possible amount of "interesting shit", wheter that's a fighter cutting off your leg in one sweep, the magic user growing tentacles and bursting into flames, the thief one-shotting the boss, ect.

This is reflected in the modules, which are all basically murdery funhouses.

Use it for one shots; trying to run a campaign in it is asking for trouble.

>> No.78043717

>>78043503
Cool. None of that stuff is in B/X raw, or in any of the games based on B/X. Closest is The Black Hack.

>> No.78043765

>>78043717
Well yeah, he's saying that people should take more inspiration from OD&D (specifically LBBs).

>> No.78043989

>>78033931
>like the kind that would come to mind if someone only knew vaguely of D&D would think of?
Seems to me that they wouldn't think of any specific dungeon. They'd just think of rooms filled with monsters to kill, something videogamey.

>> No.78044062

>>78043503
>As he gains levels, not only does he get multiple attacks
I'm not sure that's how it's supposed to work, because oh boy what a drastic balance change it would be. I think, and I don't really know Chainmail either, that it might be simply that the fightin' man gets more CHANCES to attack, so he gets multiple attack attempts but once he hits, that's it. One damage roll. Because in Chainmail it would have just been a kill, y'know?
Maybe.

>> No.78044095

>>78044062
It's definitely multiple attacks outright based on Chainmail, with a Hero fighting as if they are 4 regular soldiers in combat.

>> No.78044230

>>78037943
google "the trove" and go to the first link, ez

>> No.78044336

I'm gonna throw it out there that Chainmail rules don't even necessarily fall under the purvey of "OSR" because they are so different from how the game was played both throughout the early days and in the contemporary Renaissance era. Doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to discuss, I just feel like since we all love definitions here I am curious what others would have to say.

>> No.78044377

>>78044336
There's multiple sides to OSR, I'd say comprehending the role Chainmail played in OD&D's original design philosophy is more on the 'trying to learn from early D&D' than it is on the 'trying to play like people played D&D early on' side.

>> No.78044384

>>78043309
>>78043349
thank you, I will check those out!

>> No.78044423

>>78040798

cant wait till zak sues you and you have to dox yourself and post a humiliating apology on your shit blog.

>> No.78044476

>>78044423
Best of luck. I'm not even on his updated gloating lists, (which are totally normal, by the way).

>> No.78044583

>>78044423
>>78044476
stop shitting in the thread samefag

>> No.78044662

>>78042228
>> was an early push
China Joe published it in 2012

>> No.78044694

>>78044062
If you look at how monsters like the Troll work, OD&D Book 2 has this to say:

Attack/Defense capabilities versus normal men are simply a matter of allowing
one roll as a man-type for every hit die, with any bonuses being given to only one
of the attacks, i.e. a Troll would attack six times, once with a +3 added to the die
roll. (Combat is detailed in Vol. III.)

I have to assume this is how Heroes and such work on the Man-To-Man scale as well, since I can't find it in Chainmail (the Fantasy Combat System doesn't seem to interact with the Man-To-Man system very well at all).

>> No.78044725

>>78023739
you are learning to get around obstacles efficiently.

>> No.78044784

>>78035441
why?

>> No.78044809

>>78044694
Absurdly enough, the implication of OD&D seems to be that individual soldiers use the mass combat rules of Chainmail. Man-to-man is not actually used, though many obviously have decided to ignore that particular idea.

>> No.78044848

>>78044694
The system Delving Deeper explains it much better. Essentially, past level 4 when you are considered a heroic-type (as player or monster) you can attack normal-types as a 1HD attack × your current HD.
So, level 8 Conan may attack the Apemen 8 times as a Level 1, adding his strength bonus and magical weapon bonus to one attack but not to the other 7.
In effect, this is as if Conan was tearing through one Goblin and inadvertently killing another 7 of them by his sheer heroic force.

>> No.78044921

Does anyone know of a clever way to accurately describe an irregular shaped room or hall? I had to describe the courtyard of xyntillan last game, the correct dimensions are important because it forms the foundation for the interior map, and I really couldn't give a terse description that made sense. The mapper was visibly fed up with my lengthy description!

>> No.78044961

>>78044784
nayrt - you get essentially the same experience but you only need to learn ~60 pages of rules rather than 300+. You also need to look up less tables in play.

The question is, what do you gain from AD&D that is worth all the hassle and bookkeeping?

>> No.78045010

>>78044809
>the implication of OD&D seems to be that individual soldiers use the mass combat rules of Chainmail.
An amusing side effect of this is that on a mechanical level it's not actually worth spending your money on weapons, since Chainmail mass combat doesn't consider reach or any other attributes of weaponry beyond what's needed to move from Light to Heavy Foot/Horse. Your Hero can get by with a bow for shooting dragons and his fists for everything else. I can only assume I've missed a single sentence somewhere in Chainmail, because such a result seems ridiculous.

>>78044921
Draw a sketchy picture on a post-it note.

>> No.78045039

>>78045010
To be fair, considering the ACS is just a straight 1d6 of damage no matter the weapon, I assume just not worrying about it was kind of the norm.

>> No.78045076

>>78045039
The Man to Man table has a bunch of shit for multiple attacks depending on how much your weapon outranks your opponent's and weapon vs armour that puts it closer to the ACS with the Greyhawk weapon vs AC table, so maybe TSR realised they'd forgotten it like they'd forgotten the proper monster XP table and just put it in the next book.

>> No.78045091

>>78044095
>with a Hero fighting as if they are 4 regular soldiers in combat.
Isn't that just the 'non-heroic' combat in D&D though? The 'sweep' rule that is used only against 1HD or less monsters and remains in the ACS as well?

>> No.78045109

>>78045076
Yeah that's a good point, the reintroduction of that complexity does make its implied absence in LBBs strange and perhaps I'm just straight up wrong.

>> No.78045243
File: 2.73 MB, 1530x1795, map01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78045243

been homebrewing a small hexcrawl setting to get my table introduced to OSR games. I used to play 3.5E before playing with them, they all either used to play 5E or not play at all. DMed a few DCC modules for them, then a DCC sandbox campaign, now they're interested in me running a b/x hexcrawl game. don't really have much experience with these kinds of settings to tell me what you guys think:
I created a small 10x10, 3 mile hex map like this, with some of the more interesting areas keyed, and am working on a large, sprawling series of caverns/dungeons that all connect with each other underground to encourage exploration and that "woah" feeling when they realize it's all interconnected. will post the next part in a second

>> No.78045309
File: 4.43 MB, 2832x5640, map02.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78045309

>>78045243
and here's the underworld map, from the side. already mapped, keyed, and created encounters/treasures for all the areas directly beneath the old abbey. the rest of the areas I've written rumor tables / basic overviews for but haven't mapped out yet. planning on using a combination of randomly generated maps / hand drawn ones for the caverns / kobold / goblin areas, and hand mapped ones for the dwarven colony. the basic premise (and one that I hope will steer the players to realize it's connected) is that there will be 3 main adventure "hooks" that all the rumors tables point towards, but they all tie into each other to some extent
>undead are roaming the woods to the north, go find out why (abandoned abbey/monastery used to be used by monks as a prison/catacombs for cursed/undead souls, used to be sealed but kobolds dug into it as they burrowed upwards looking for caverns further from the goblins raiding them from below)
>cattle have been disappearing from the farm at night, go find out why (farm is build over an underground kobold settlement, that has been running low on food supplies and has begun pilfering them from the surface)
>a priceless artifact was lost in the old mines when the dwarves working it shut themselves in and began butchering outsiders, go look for it (dwarves at war with goblins on the lowest level, artifact is some sort of religious monolith compelling them to violence and cult worship)
also throwing in a handful of one page dungeons/lairs around the map not connected to anything, and some factions in the towns with overland agendas/plots
would this be a good introduction to osr style dungeon/hexcrawling?

>> No.78045519

>>78045243
>>78045309
Looks pretty awesome. I really like the interconnected dungeons. Though a inquisitive nitpicker might ask where exactly the goblins came from, I certainly wouldn't let it spoil my enjoyment of what looks like a great setting.

>> No.78045821

What is OSE?

>> No.78045835

>>78045821
Old School Essentials, basically D&D B/X except reformatted to be easier to use (but without the instruction elements that are necessary to learn how to play).

>> No.78045854

>>78045835
Interesting, why get this instead of the actual D&D B/X? I might buy these (especially if it gets my group to try out the system)

>> No.78045869

>>78045854
B/X is no longer easily available, so a lot of people go for retroclones. See this pasta >>78020377

>> No.78046348

>>78041809
DCC is just 3.5 with some really really fun window dressing. I think you're better off going OSE, and sampling the various tables from DCC for ideas.

>> No.78046463

>>78033931
I always thought of dark corridors and empty stone brick rooms. I blame the cartoons that had DnD episodes as I was growing up.

>> No.78047103

>>78045869
>B/X is no longer easily available

>> No.78047114

>Deep Carbon Observtory - Session 4

https://leveldrain.com/2021/03/12/dco-report-13/

Yet another play report. You overhyped me this thing but I'm not having that much fun running it :(

>> No.78047303
File: 578 KB, 1600x1600, WatchtowerDungeonCompound.Sub-Level-1-Labeled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78047303

Update to the Watchtower on the Indigo River this week - but it's a dungeon, so it pretty much stands on its own, too.

https://clericswearringmail.blogspot.com/2021/03/0802-progress-point-watchtower-under.html

>> No.78047472
File: 986 KB, 640x800, Shek_Ra.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78047472

What's a good length for a megadungeon campaign? A year? Half a year? I am runnimg my own and while I know it's technically without end, I do want there to be one at about twenty to thirty or so sessions. Is that a fair amount with floors containing about 30 to 50 rooms?

>> No.78047501

>>78045854
Get Molday B/X, pdf from trove if you gotta, and just read the book through. There's plenty of good examples within on getting started and playing. But OSE is nice for table reference and game prep once you're familiar with everything. Those little booklets are so handy.

>> No.78047504

>>78045869
You can buy BX on drivethru I thought?

>> No.78047523

>>78047504
only pdfs, not hard copies

>> No.78048047

>>78047523
>what are print shops
At my local one a spiral bound book with plastic cover is 8 cents per page. Hell, B/X books are small enough you can bind them at home with a stapler.

>> No.78048075

Can someone explain what is this fascination with "gonzo"? What it even means? English is not my first language so I think some meaning flew past me

>> No.78048146
File: 472 KB, 2400x3000, gonzo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78048146

>>78048075
>gonzo
I think it just means 'over the top'. So more concerned with being fun and memorable and perhaps silly to the point of not trying as hard to be believeable.
Or something.

>> No.78048212
File: 968 KB, 1920x1254, high fantasy art anachronism cell phone goblin prank.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78048212

>>78048075
"Gonzo" is a sub-genre of weird fantasy which is typically defined by fantastical or mythology elements being absent or sourced from obscure places (Indian, Eastern, Native American, etc.), unusual or wholly invented fantasy races and cultures which are not sourced from anything else, and tend to have more anachronistic elements then other fantasy worlds such as high tech science fiction or cave men fighting each other.

For example; a crashed alien spaceship in an otherwise generic Western European fantasy world would probably be considered gonzo, but if this happened in a fantasy world where the main races were puppet people and players were traveling into dungeons to find Pogs then it would be very much gonzo.

>> No.78048259

Do you use Weapon Mastery?

>> No.78048314

>>78047504
You can, and you need nothing else, ignore the shilling

>> No.78048394

>>78048075
It is the opposite of realism. It encourages including stuff you find fun with little regard as to tone. Note here that this doesn't mean you can't have worldbuilding. If you manage to argue for why spiders are huge and drive vehicles in your game, all power to you.

If you want to see an example for as to how look up Gamma World or Anomalous Subsurface Environment.

>> No.78048626

>>78045039
>>78045010
>>78044809
>>78044694
>>78044062
>>78043503
Bandit's Keep on YouTube has been doing a video series that follows the same logic. While I'd argue it's impossible to play OD&D "by the book" as the book is intentionally nebulous so as to leave some elements open to referee interpretation, he's got an interesting take on integrating Chainmail. He puts a lot of narrative focus on "upper" combats - where "lower" combats are still mass combat, but "attack as" changes based on weapon; so, you may be wearing plate, but in his interpretation, you still attack "as light" if you're attacking with a pocket knife.

>> No.78048696

>>78047303
nice

>> No.78048717

>>78044809
It's not really absurd, Mass Combat is a *lot* faster than MTM.

>>78045010
>Your Hero can get by with a bow for shooting dragons and his fists for everything else. I can only assume I've missed a single sentence somewhere in Chainmail, because such a result seems ridiculous.
Nah, it's assumed that you can correctly identify this as ridiculous, and also that you're enough of an adult that if you *do* want to have a wrestler hero -- Hercules, say -- you can just include it, and are allowed to do that. (This is for the Fantasy Combat Table only, of course. Your Hero still needs arms and armor to qualify as heavy or armored foot vs. normal men, or medium/heavy horse if mounted.)

>>78045076
Man-to-Man Combat is for real inimical to human life. I don't think they can have playtested the rules very well, because they give lots of preposterous results, like a guy with a spear being severely disadvantaged against a guy with a dagger after the first round. The MTM *attack table* is a fine resource if you like more granular handling of weapons and armor; the MTM *rules* should just be discarded.

>>78045091
>Isn't that just the 'non-heroic' combat in D&D though? The 'sweep' rule that is used only against 1HD or less monsters and remains in the ACS as well?
Not exactly. In OD&D it applies to everything that hasn't attained Hero level fighting capability or the equivalent thereof, e.g. anything that can't fight on the FCT. This is a much larger net than "1 HD or less".

>> No.78048727

>>78048626
>you may be wearing plate, but in his interpretation, you still attack "as light" if you're attacking with a pocket knife.
What's Armoured Foot end up being, then?

>> No.78048776

>>78048717
>preposterous results, like a guy with a spear being severely disadvantaged against a guy with a dagger after the first round.
In the absence of advanced reach rules, that's not that ridiculous. The spearman strikes the first blow, if he fails to kill the dagger man he now gets a go. Now the dagger man is in range for his dagger, and the spear is too long to be really useful at that range.

>> No.78048872

>>78048626
>you may be wearing plate, but in his interpretation, you still attack "as light" if you're attacking with a pocket knife.
This seems to be the opposite of the standard Chainmail rules, where it seems to be based more on your armour than your arms.

Light Foot: Missile troops. Swiss/Landsknechte*. Peasants. Crews
Heavy Foot: Normans, Saxons, Turks, Vikings, Men-at-Arms
Armored Foot: Dismounted Knights. Sergeants, Italian City Levies and Condottiere
Light Horse: Magyars, Mongols, Saracens, Spanish, Turks, Hobilars
Medium Horse: Mongols. Norman Knights, Esquires. Saracens. Spanish. Turks,
Turcopoles
Heavy Horse: Knights, Reiter, Gendarms

>> No.78048883

>>78042521
I just ignore any contradiction. "cure" is a blessing that closes up wounds and reinvigorates so you can get back in the fight. Let hitpoints be an abstract and don't look too close.

>>78047472
You can stop any time, or keep expanding/changing and go for decades. Note that one of the traits of a real megadungeon is that it is never "cleared", at least not by a regular party.

>> No.78048892

>>78048717
>a guy with a spear being severely disadvantaged against a guy with a dagger after the first round
This is historically accurate, though: the dagger dude, assuming he doesn't get skewered, is now inside the spearman's guard: they would have to backpedal to bring their weapon to bear. Pikemen would carry both pikes and side arms, in case that happened.

Not arguing that M2M is faster or anything: it is *definitely* a much more involved process than mass combat - and your "anything not obtaining hero level" observation is spot on.

>>78048727
If wearing plate but wielding a butter knife, other units attacking you would tabulate their dice against Armored Foot; when you strike back, you tabulate your dice as using Light Foot.

>>78048776
This.

>> No.78048912

>>78048872
Keep in mind, though, that standard Chainmail assumed that you were kitted accordingly. Archers fight as light foot because they historically wore light armor *and* carried a light melee weapon.

>> No.78048970

>>78048626
This interpretation is virtually inarguable, nor did that one guy come up with it (although I'm not sure you're saying he did). It's been known at least since the early OSR, because the Fantasy Supplement and the treatment of landsknechts in Chainmail itself implies this is how it works.

>>78048727
A person in plate with a knife (or arguably a sword) would defend as Armored Foot but attack as Light Foot. Attacking as Armored Foot implies the heaviest class of foot weapons: halberds, pollaxes, two-handed swords. (Out of these, only pollaxes are really historical as dismounted knightly arms, but you get the idea.)

>>78048776
That's absolutely not how that actually works, though. IRL, the spearman strikes the first blow, and if he misses, the dagger man is now too far away to accomplish anything useful and gets attacked again, etc. until he dies or has a sufficient combination of luck and skill to ward off the spear, grab it, and move into his own ideal range.

Also, arguably there's no absence of advanced reach rules in MTM combat. That rule is elaborate as a motherfucker compared to anything in AD&D. let alone Basic.

>> No.78048990

>>78048872
That asterisk after "Swiss/Landsknechte" is more crucial than you seem to think. Look up the mass combat table: they can fight as Armored Foot under optimal circumstances.

>> No.78049027

>>78048892
>This is historically accurate, though
No it isn't.

>the dagger dude, assuming he doesn't get skewered, is now inside the spearman's guard
No he isn't. See >>78048970. There's any amount of HEMA mixed sparring videos covering this that you can watch, a range advantage is a fucker to deal with.

>> No.78049069

>>78048970
>or has a sufficient combination of luck and skill to ward off the spear, grab it, and move into his own ideal range.
That is, in fact, what happens in the MTM rules when you fail your hit roll. You can tell that's what happens by the fact that the other guy gets an attack roll when you miss.

>> No.78049380

>>78049069
No it's not. The MTM rules are way too granular to defend that claim, with the ratio of attacks of the shorter weapon based on relative length etc. Your assertion would also imply that the spear should have an xboxhueg attack bonus against shorter weapons (so that the dagger man's attack is virtually never granted), but in fact, we don't see this: attacks are modulated entirely as attacker's weapon vs. defender's armor.

>> No.78049409

>>78048212
>>>78047523
I love this picture

>> No.78049484

>>78048970
Correct - it was not my intent to imply he originated the idea; but to link him because he's doing a podcast on the subject and has posted actual plays of it on YouTube. In the podcast, he credits most of his understanding and interpretation of Chainmail to OD&D and Chainmail forums.

>>78049027
I'm not arguing reach isn't a big deal - that's one of the things I like about M2M - but if the enemy closing inside your guard wasn't a thing, the principes would not have carried a gladius.

>> No.78049519

>>78049380
>No it's not.
So what is your explanation for the guy with the shorter weapon getting to make an attack once the guy with the longer weapon has missed, then? There is no explanation that makes sense other than that, by missing, the guy with the longer weapon has allowed the guy with the shorter weapon the ability to move into the appropriate attack range.

>> No.78049665

>>78049519
My explanation is "Gygax and Perren had no real idea what they were doing, so their rules on this point don't make sense". In general they honestly did pretty well, and their abstract mass combat system (which is pretty heavily based on earlier systems) is very good. But the MTM rules are full of horseshit. I think they just vastly underestimated how big an advantage range is due to having no experience whatever of any kind of armed combat, even sport fencing. In fact, I don't think they even understood how entering into striking distance *works*. The Chainmail initiative/range rules are the incoherent result of a flawed mental model.

>> No.78049701
File: 13 KB, 115x115, Kindly Little Old Warrior Noble (Avatar).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78049701

>>78048626
I wholeheartedly agree! Bandit's Keep is an excellent watch, and brings back so many memories of how we played back then too. :-) Thanks for mentioning them!

>> No.78049765

>>78048892
>Pikemen would carry both pikes and side arms, in case that happened.

>>78049484
>I'm not arguing reach isn't a big deal - that's one of the things I like about M2M - but if the enemy closing inside your guard wasn't a thing, the principes would not have carried a gladius.
Formation fighting is something completely different from fighting man to man -- i.e., what the *Man-to-Man rules* explicitly focus on. (They were originally written for playing siege scenarios with few attacking and defending figures.) Getting in too close when you're part of one of two bodies pressing against one another is far more likely than if you're battling a single enemy.

But beyond that, various forms of spearmen typically carried sidearms primarily in case the spear *broke* (again, something far more likely in the press than two singular opponents), not because of range concerns. A spear haft is perfectly capable of warding off a dagger even if the wielder of the dagger is inside the reach of the spearhead, and you can also strike with the butt, often provided with a spike for this purpose.

>> No.78050525

>>78045243
>>78045309
Looks mostly cool stuff. The location density it a bit high imo, but that will depend on what travel speed you are using. The towns being too close to the dungeons or the nearness of a capital city makes it harder to explain why nothing has happened until this point, as well as make the wilderness exploration much less dangerous via many easy safe places and harder to explain the encounters themselves. This can be adjusted by biome or whatever, but it might be an issue.
More or less, having enough space between places is where the procedural and emergent gameplay of hex exploration takes place, much like the 'empty' rooms in dungeons.
Having a lot of cool stuff like 1 pages to throw in is a good idea, but I'd advise not jamming toooooo much stuff in there. Give it room to breath and the players will be able to do more.
The interconnected dungeons on deeper levels is a great idea.

>> No.78050683
File: 44 KB, 282x341, 1614552837173.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78050683

>>78048146
>>78048212
>>78048394
Thank you anons, I think I got it. But I really don't like the sound of the word, the Questing Beast guy says it all the time

>> No.78050693

>>78049665
This unironically. The MtM rules, especially the initiative and reach models, have absolutely no basis in reality.

>> No.78050846

>>78050683
Off topic but what esl? Its interesting to learn about what sounds are weird to other language speakers.

>> No.78050879

>>78045519
>where the goblins came from
good point didn't think of that- maybe the in world explanation can be the goblins being chased down from the mountains by X and settling the abandoned mines at the base of them, where they ran into the surprise of them already being occupied?
>>78050525
should I make the hexes a bit larger then, maybe 5-6 miles?

>> No.78050887

Any good examples of boats-as-dungeons?

>> No.78051025

>>78045869
Yes it is.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/110274/DD-Basic-Set-Rulebook-B-X-ed-Basic

>> No.78051030

>>78050887
Gus L's HMS Apollyon, maybe.

>> No.78051420

>>78050887
Problem is a full sized medieval ocean going ship will be less than 40 dungeon squares long and might only have 3-5 rooms, it'd have to lean heavily on factions or weird ocean monsters I think.

>> No.78051427
File: 157 KB, 310x344, elf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78051427

>>78050683
I'm sure everybody who can use Google knows it refers to Hunter S. Thompson's writing style. I think around 2008 it started getting used to describe the Arduin Grimoire. If you are saying it's a vague and shallow term we shouldn't be using, I'll back you, Anon.

>> No.78051476

>>78051427
What would you use in place of gonzo? How else would you describe a cyborg tyrannosaurus rex chasing lizard people on mars or an orc shredding electric guitar while riding on the back of a flying shark?

>> No.78051534

>>78050887
Just a partial wreck, but still.

>> No.78051587

>>78051025
>B..b..but it’s not in print!
Never mind there are numerous printers online and in person who will print and bind it for you or you can do it yourself. I have printed them on lulu no problem.

>> No.78051670
File: 87 KB, 749x909, 9e8f2dc31bfcc07149d7e42d327b0adc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78051670

The M&M island generator gave me an island under the sway of a witch with apemen and a mysterious tower. My first thought is a Howardian sorceress and her missing link minions in an ancient tower raised by inhuman hands.

>> No.78051743

>>78050887
The Floundering Cog and another one I think called
Canal of the Dead both seemed well put together and from here.
I think clericswearringmail(sp) did the floundering, not sure which osrgbloger did the other. I stuck both of them into my campaigns.
>>78051420
imo worrying too much about realistic boat things is a serious mistake when making boat related dnd things. Inspiration and verisimilitude are good but worrying about making it too realistic kills most dungeons in short order.

>> No.78051780

>>78050879
>should I make the hexes a bit larger then, maybe 5-6 miles?
Sizes of 3-6 miles are more a matter of taste, how often you want to roll for encounters, how sparse or dense you want the world to be. I'd have a bit more space between the locations except for where ever the starting dungeon and one nearby place is, more than change the scale.

>> No.78051783
File: 22 KB, 324x344, 1599594627359.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78051783

>>78051025
>We (Wizards) recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website does not reflect the values of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial, and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

>> No.78052101

>>78050846
>what esl
English as a Second Language
Usually a formal program at the high school (and below) level for foreign students that don’t speak or read/write English.

>> No.78052132

>>78052101
I think Anon meant "which is your first language?"

>> No.78052195
File: 636 KB, 1280x1280, E281C5A4-40B6-4ACF-AA3B-220185E1AB35.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78052195

My idea is to mash up Palladium’s After the Bomb with BX. Mutant animals in a medieval low fantasy setting.
So all PCs will be mutant animals. And insects take the role of IRL animals as mounts (grasshoppers), draft animals (Beetles) and war dogs (fleas?). But it will be impossible to keep out furries if I run it online.. So I havent run it yet.

>> No.78052748

You have to bring back D&D Basic while maintaining enough compatibility with 5e that Basic modules can be technically played in 5e and 5e modules can be technically played in Basic (though not well). What do you do?

>> No.78052809

>>78052748
Prob something like Five Torches Deep with B/X's dungeon procedures tacked on. The thing about module compatibility is that all you need to change around are the numbers, since every scenario presented in each module can be played in either (or any) game. Once you have a procedure for that, like how 5TD does it, you can basically do whatever you want.

>> No.78052813

>>78052748
An interesting game. The only way to win is not to play.

>> No.78053031

>>78051476
Mixing things from different time periods (cyborg dinosaurs, and maybe orcs with electric guitars, if you think of orcs as something from medieval folklore) is called anachronism.

Making fantasy creatures by giving real creatures a new ability (your flying sharks, or the flying monkeys in Wizard of Oz, or the sand seals in Breath of the Wild) is a device I see occasionally and perhaps it deserves a name, so I am hereby christening it "bulettification".

>> No.78053095

>>78052748
I'd just play Into the Unknown with some of its extraneous elements stripped out. It's just 5e without the nonsense, with a slimmed-but-recognizable set of dungeon and wilderness procedures.

>> No.78053433

>>78053031
Ok so instead of saying "this setting is intended to be anachronistic and have bulettified (a term no one recognizes) creatures" why not just say "gonzo" and have everyone who's familiar with the scene know what you mean?

>> No.78053515

>>78052748
>What do you do?
Shoot the guy who tried to give me the job. This evil must be cut out at the root.

>> No.78053669

>>78053433
And if you need to crap out videos where you "describe" products, then calling anything with unfamiliar elements "gonzo" is the low effort way to go.

>> No.78053719

>>78053669
Sounds like you have more of an issue with Questing Beast than you do with the term itself.

>> No.78053741

>>78048872
>vikings and saxons are heavy foot
they had a helmet, spear, and shield like 80% of the time.

>> No.78053795

>>78053741
One of the things you have to recognize about Chainmail is it's made by dudes who don't really know what the fuck they're talking about, and that's part of the fun.

>> No.78053800

>>78020377
Why not use the rules cyclopedia?

>> No.78053854

>>78053800
Rules Cyclopedia has a lot of rules options that you might not be sure which you want to use, as well as less instruction on how to play built in. It is a great alternative if you find B/X boring after playing a bit, but B/X is a great place to start playing. Also consider looking into the Mentzer-made Basic/Expert books from 1983 if you find B/X hard to learn from.

>> No.78053916

>>78053741
Chainmail is impressionistic. It's true that Gygax and Perren probably imagined vikings as wearing chain hauberks and might have statted lighter-armored reavers as light foot, but it's also reasonable to figure that since there are rules covering about a thousand years of changing warfare, the point is about relative strengths and not evaluation against some absolute measure. In the Viking Age, typical vikings could be run as heavy foot, Vikings with byrnies and dane axes as armored, and peasant levies and other bleps as light foot. After all, both sides are presumed to be on the same tech level; it's not a system for allowing vikings to fight it out against late-medieval knights or Swiss pike hedgehogs.

>> No.78054193
File: 125 KB, 385x355, Screenshot_2021-02-15_19-46-25.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78054193

I want to coin the term "funhouse naturalism". I think it's a good term. Let's use it from now on, please.

>> No.78054246

>>78054193
What does your term mean?

>> No.78054410

>>78054193
I thought the thumbnail was a deep one riding a dude so I was very concerned.

>> No.78054435

The use of GONZO as a term should be preserved and even encouraged for two reasons. First, it is descriptive. When you are told a setting is going to be GONZO, you know you will be fighting giant mutant rabbits with laser cats. Second, it denotes a sort of unlimited imagination of great unpredictability where anything goes and nothing can be foreseen, something we need more of in our fantasy.

>> No.78054452

>>78051783
Because it's not about actually helping Black people (who are below the poverty line). It's about making White people feel like they're helping poor black people, without doing anything.

>> No.78054977

>>78054452
So much this it’s not even funny
T.gook

>> No.78055045 [DELETED] 

>>78048075
Would it will help if you see the word used correctly in a sentence? For example: "Nuskoolers post to their gonzo blogs compulsively as way to coming to terms with their gender dysphoria."

>> No.78055074

>>78048075
Would it will help if you see the word used correctly in a sentence? For example: "Nuskoolers often post to their gonzo blogs compulsively as way of coming to terms with their gender dysphoria."

>> No.78055118

>>78054452
>It's about making White people feel like they're helping poor black people, without doing anything.
I don't even think it's about that. It's a power struggle between two groups of white people in positions of power. It's not about feeling good about yourself, it's about occupying the moral high ground so you can snipe down on your enemies from there.

>> No.78055647
File: 33 KB, 457x350, the gang.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78055647

anyone ever run a campaign where the PCs are a gang? i've got a big city in my setting and the players are going to be a criminal faction within that city, and i'm wondering if anyone has any hooks or advice for running such a campaign.

>> No.78055790

>>78047472
It took my group 3-4 months of weekly ~4hr sessions to fully explore B2, which is about 60 rooms IIRC. But they were a big group and fairly unfocused as players, so YMMV.

>> No.78055890

So I was reading this

http://falsemachine.blogspot.com/2021/03/the-crypt-of-osr.html

What was your favorite abandoned/deleted/forgotten blog/post for the OSR movement?

>> No.78055898

>Deep Carbon Observatory - Session 5

https://leveldrain.com/2021/03/13/dco-report-14/

My players finally got into the Observatory and one of them died. I'm gonna post a review after we finish it but I'll probably gonna be an hipster and a contrarian and I'm gonna say I didn't like it that much.

>> No.78056403

>>78020377
what's the best starter guide for building an old school mega dungeon?

>> No.78056548

>>78053916
>and peasant levies and other bleps as light foot.
Levies are distinct from Peasants in Chainmail.
Levies: These units were local citizenry, watch, militia and the like, who
were occasionally drilled and called to arms in times of trouble. They were used
most often by the Italians and Flemish — in fact, the Flemish pikemen were good
fighters if properly supported by cavalry, but it was hopeless for them to take the
field without such support. As they were citizen soldiers, they were poorly
trained, half-disciplined, and fought in masses. Their chief arms were long
spears, various pole weapons, or pikes. Levies should be treated as Heavy Foot
unless otherwise stated. The Flemish add 1 to dice scores when checking morale.

>> No.78056811
File: 74 KB, 315x250, thieves.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78056811

>>78020245
looking for these pfds by taylor-lane.itch io

The Noble
The Time Thief
The Kleptomancer
Monster Eater
The Obsessive Hunter

>> No.78056845

>>78052132
Brazilian Portuguese. I don't know, gonzo just sounds vague and kinda gay. Like fantasy was supposed to be fantastical, but now that we have our default of dwarves, elfs etc, anything that strays from that is "gonzo".

>> No.78056892

>>78053719
Not him, QB videos are useful for having product overviews, but he could up his descriptions a bit. Gonzo is a boring catch all term for tryhard weird stuff

>> No.78056910

>>78054435
No

>> No.78056924
File: 747 KB, 798x473, Melnibonean.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78056924

>>78056845
do you know dovahatty? you're both brazillian and use 4chan. I agree about the gonzo thing, I like my fantasy to be fantastical. I think its for the best that no sci fi franchise holds as much sway in the public imagination as lotr holds in fantasy. love lotr, but man, I wish Elric and Corum were more influential in the modern fantasy scene.

>> No.78056927

>>78054193
Sounds good to me anon

>> No.78057016

>>78055790
>It took my group 3-4 months of weekly ~4hr sessions to fully explore B2
I can't put into words how jealous I am that you apparently have a group that's willing to play an old module, in 4 hour sessions, every week, for months
I'm lucky if my friends can commit to playing 5e once every two or three weeks

>> No.78057074

>>78056811
Try the NuSR trove out of the share thread

>> No.78057133

>>78056924
Never heard of him. He lurks osrg?
Some decent movies of Elric and others would help that, but nowadays it would just ruin it

>> No.78057205

>>78057016
Open table really helps.

>> No.78057241

>>78055890
http://antlerrr.blogspot.com/2015/07/who-eats-most.html

>> No.78057268

>>78056924
>I wish Elric and Corum were more influential in the modern fantasy scene
NAYRT but what do you see as being defining elements of those milieus that you’d like to see? I’ve read both of those sagas multiple times, I think Chronicles of Corum might be my favorite fantasy series of all time.
Elric has had an influence on modern fantasy. Drizzt’s a moody outcast and that Witcher guy is a thinly veiled ripoff. Corum not so much maybe.

>> No.78057408

>>78020377
Made updates to this, will roll out in the next thread.

>> No.78057465

>>78051587
can you send a picture of what that print looks like? I want to see if its worth it

>> No.78057485

>>78055898
It's a weird module.

>> No.78057522

>>78055898
I feel the same way about veins of the earth. Everybody raves over it but I read the monster descriptions and it came off like a bunch of arty farty bullshit to me.

>> No.78057586

>>78050887
>>78051743
>The Floundering Cog
He did indeed! PDF related.

>> No.78057669

>>78057522
It is arty farty bullshit. PStu is a wildly overrated OSR creator. The Void Phoenix is the height of pretension. He’s a decent writer but gaming material is not in his wheelhouse.

>> No.78057677

Is there a procedure for chasing the party back through the dungeon with a big ass monster? Or even the dungeon is collapsing kinda way, I'm not picky, though my limited mechanical experience is getting the best of me.

>> No.78057758

New Thread!
>>78057716
>>78057716
>>78057716

>> No.78059408
File: 2.04 MB, 1103x720, glandyth.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78059408

>>78057133
>He lurks osrg?
/his/, he made a fairly successful youtube series https://youtu.be/9EOzr15h8S8?list=PLp5VE4P1YBhc05cDqiOazzTTu1WSh8MHg
>>78057268
I mainly want the more out-there elements from corum, stuff like the complete genocide in the first few pages, the weird conspiring wizard without overt magic so much as a collection of weird bullshit. but most of all I want the writing style, short, punchy books with a solid plot and characterization. I hate the fluff of modern fantasy

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