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78019976 No.78019976 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

True Hopelessness Edition

Tell us about your horror settings, games, etc. Share inspirational art, prompts, etc.

>List of games:
Call of Cthulhu, Chill, Cold and Dark, Degenesis, Delta Green, Don't Rest Your Head, Dread, Esoterrorists/Fear Itself+Book of Unremitting Horror, Fall of Delta Green, GORE, Into The Shadows, KULT, Little Fears, Mothership RPG, Nemesis (free on Arc Dream's website), Nights Black Agents, Silent Legions (Mostly for the tables), Stalker: The SciFi RPG, Symbaroum, Ten Candles, Trail of Cthulhu, Unisystem (All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Witchcraft, Conspiracy X, etc.), Unknown Armies

>Inspirational stuff:
Caitlin R Kiernan, Castlevania, Doomwatch, Fear & Hunger, George Romero, Ghostwatch, House of Leaves, I Am In Eskew, John Carpenter, Kolchak the Nightstalker, Laird Barron, M.R. James, Nick Cutter, Old Gods of Appalachia, Quatermass, Ramsey Campbell, Remedy Series (Alan Wake, Control), SCP Foundation, Scarfolk Council, Shaun Hutson, Silent Hill, Stand Still Stay Silent, The Evil Dead, The Magnus Archives, The Secret World, The Stone Tapes, Thomas Ligotti, Twin Peaks, Vault of Evil forums, toomuchhorrorfiction

Questions for the Thread:
>How hopeless do you like your games, if at all?
>What's the 'right' way to present inescapable hopelessness in a game?
>Is there a point where something can be *too* bleak?

Questions for Horrorverse refugees:
>What is your favorite bleak setting?
>What do you think is the most hopeless setting you've ever seen?

Previous Thread:
>>77925785

Please try to keep arguing to a minimum. Don't respond to bait/drama posts.
And as usual, try and keep it alive, or at least undead.

>> No.78020016

>>78019976
SIX YOU CUNT WHY DID YOU DROP HIMMMM

>> No.78020105
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78020105

>Is there a point where something can be *too* bleak?
A big one would be where your choices and actions in-game truly don't matter. Like pic related, albeit more with its later seasons.

>> No.78020219

>>78020016
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST MONO

>> No.78020264

>>78019976
Talk about an upskirt.

>> No.78020308

>>78020264
That is a boy anon

>> No.78020310
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>How hopeless do you like your games, if at all?
The game shouldn't be unwinnable before I start. That's about it.
The GM Shouldn't be fudging dice rolls so I die.
Maybe you can't beat the big bad ever fully, but you can win battles and conflicts.

>What's the 'right' way to present inescapable hopelessness in a game?
Make it false and a sort of "psychological trap" for players to fall into. If they give up they lose but if they have the grit to keep going and do the right things they can win. Make victories feel like they barely made it or reward them if they are clever.
No GM should ever start a game as unbeatable, it needs to have some kind of victory condition.
>Is there a point where something can be *too* bleak?
Well yeah I still haven't finished Teatro Grotesco because it's too much dread.

>> No.78020367
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>>78020308

>> No.78020437
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>>78019976
I just played Little Nightmares 2. The whole Viewers chapter was eerie as hell. Replaying it a second time, the Tall Man/Broadcaster loses his scare factor. He just wanted to break the loop. Still not sure why Six betrayed him, they were so cute together.

I hope the inevitable DLC has you play as one of the porcelain schoolchildren - would explain the Lunch Lady's off-screen death.

>> No.78020882

>>78020105
That game was just depressing.

>> No.78021511

>>78020882
It at least kept up some kind of illusion with S1 where you could say that Lee's choices would impact Clementine and the other two I forget the names of, but they throw that out the window quick in S2. I didn't play 3 or 4 but I heard they were even worse, and supposed choices did nothing and saving a character had them die like one or two scenes later.

>> No.78021814

>>78020437
>Still not sure why Six betrayed him
Not only was she just a slightly fucked up individual to begin with(ok that is only headcanon) but her experiences with her own family, life on the run and her time in meatspace left her as a predator in a childs' body. She was cute with him until he actively opposed her, even if that was for her own good.

>> No.78021967
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78021967

Coombait aside, this has to be one of the bleakest and most hopeless games -lore wise- I've come across.
Even scrolling through the blurb on Tv Tropes or some such, you can feel the dark and gloom radiating.

>> No.78021978

>>78021967
You can still win though

>> No.78022016

>>78021978
it's rather pyrrhic victory

>> No.78022042
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>>78021967
>Coombait
Isn't even part of the actual game just bonus stuff they sell for a marked up price.
I do love the coombait sidecontent though

>> No.78022745

>>78019976
>How hopeless do you like your games
Enough to make you fight for something and dedicate to it if you want a chance to fix things, even if it is just a small slice of peace.
>Right way to present inescapable hopelessness
This is a hard one as the whole point of RPG's is to see your choices affect the world (or to indulge in your power fantasy for some....). I would have to say have bleakness affect things around you where you have to make hard or difficult choices that might not always pan out as expected but you can still count your victories.
>A point where something is too bleak
You and your friends are dead, your pets are being skinned alive, your mother is a whore and nobody likes you. Game over.

>>78020437
How would you think a Little Nightmares table top game would go?

>>78021967
>>78022042
Never heard of this. Should at least take the piss with the goblin card and just say rocks fall you die.

>> No.78022859

>>78020437
>>78021814
She saw his face, idiots. It was pretty clear it was a quick, silent "OH" moment. Why do you think he wears the bag? Both are little monsters in their own way.

>> No.78023024

>>78021967
It's basically LOTFP. Coom setting made by an edgelord.

>> No.78023042

>>78022859
>mother is a soul sucking abomination
>thrown out to fend for herself
>constantly imprisoned
>shows violent and sadistic tendancies throughout both games and dlc content
>became a powerful monster he defeats by smashing the only good memory of her mother she has

>no it's just because she saw his face and recognized he was the Tall Man
>a monster she accidentally creates as revenge for being the Tall Man

You buffoon.
He was no monster until he was betrayed by her.

>> No.78023148 [DELETED] 
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>>78021967
>Even scrolling through the blurb on Tv Tropes or some such, you can feel the dark and gloom radiating.

>> No.78023491

>>78022745
>How would you think a Little Nightmares table top game would go?
Could work if you account for the sheer scale of the monsters and the general inability of the kids to fight them in any way. It would mostly be run-and-hide for the most part I think.

>> No.78024336

>>78023024
Lotfp is not a coom setting

>> No.78024353

>>78023148
Co

>> No.78024457

>>78024336
It's like FATAL where it's fetish-fueled but also tries to be shocking.

>> No.78024593

>>78024457
Lotfp isn't even that bad, it's the supplements. The stock magic guide doesn't even have any weird spells.

>> No.78024629

>>78024336
>Lotfp is not a coom setting
Think about how stupid what you just said is.

>> No.78025060

>>78024629
Your mom's house is a coom setting.

>> No.78025074

>>78023042
The Lady and Six aren't related per word of the devs. And given the canon reason why the kids are in the LN world (they're taken from their home realities/dimensions), it wouldn't make sense if she was.

And yes, Six is spiteful enough to drop someone who she believes slighted her. She's a petty horrible person by nature and its foreshadowed throughout the game.

>> No.78025169

>>78025060
Yeah my mum drops fat nuts on your face every night.

>> No.78025219

>>78025169
Your mum ain't ya mun, that's ya dad post dilation. I'm tapping both ya mum and ya dad's dialated axe wound

>> No.78025268
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>>78025219
you just called yourself a double fag

>> No.78026499

>>78023148
>soijak
Go back.

>> No.78026531

>>78025074
I still think it's what she saw. The confrontation with the Tall Man was pretty clear the bag meant something.

>> No.78026727

>>78026531
Even the official website says Mono hides his face because the world hates him (which it probably would regardless because eldritch dystopia, but still). Six dropping him like a bag of lead was cold, but you can't say there wasn't any foreshadowing to it.

>> No.78026850

>>78021967

I was going to say the logo looked like a dick but then realised that in KDM its probably intentional.

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>> No.78028563

>>78020437
I really want to combine those patients with Dr. Locrain's Asylum. I love the idea of totally remodelling a human into a puppet-human who is mad and exists to be a new form of 'nonconscious sapience' and life that can better survive the cosmic awareness of all things.

I keep struggling with 'how' and 'why' though. Should it be a cult? An asylum? Are there rituals or is it some form of mutation? I think surgical gore suits this but surgical gore tends to lend itself to realism.

>> No.78028577

>>78023024
You don't know anything about Kingdom Death, do you?

>> No.78028795

>>78019976
>How hopeless do you like your games, if at all?
There'll be moments of hopelessness, just as there will be moments of frivolity or moments of tension. Having a game be monolithic in its tone starts to drag after a while.
>What's the 'right' way to present inescapable hopelessness in a game?
I don't think there is one, but I think that hopelessness will be more potent if it's arrived at by your players, not "presented" by the GM.
>Is there a point where something can be *too* bleak?
Yeah, misery porn gets dull after about 15 minutes. Especially in RPGs, there should always be an avenue for your players to improve their situation.
>What is your favorite bleak setting?
Cormac McCarthy's The Road.

>> No.78029973 [DELETED] 

>>78019976
>How hopeless do you like your games, if at all?
Outside of zombie games, I keep away from nihilism as a story beat. I find that doom-n-gloom gameplay (mechanically) works wonders in a oneshot setting where the players have multiple pressures buildup on them and/or increase over a limited play period. But if I'm running a serious campaign in a game that will last longer then 0.2hrs, then I actually put in a little thought and effort into the narrative. Hopelessness is like popcorn, it's a quick and dirty snack which you can stuff your gullet with instantaneously. . . But when there is an expectation of a fine meal, the microwave gets unplugged and its off to the oven.
>What's the 'right' way to present inescapable hopelessness in a game?
Pressure and failure; a series of small battles that result in losses which slowly make the war/goal an inevitable lose.
>Is there a point where something can be *too* bleak?
Yes, the fact you're railroading players into feeling like losers. . . that type of behavior is simply an indication of absolute incompetence.
>Questions for Horrorverse refugees:
I see this retarded shit is still here.

>> No.78032262

>>78029973
Go away Elmfag.

>> No.78032628

>>78029973
This.

>>78032262
Not him, but the Horrorverse shit should go back to its own board. It has nothing to do with /hsg/.

>> No.78032918

>>78032628
>Not him
You're being way too obvious.

Also, the last time it was removed the thread was so slow and dead that it took Argent posting jsut to keep it from dying on page 10. Unless you have some alternative that isn't posting 500+ pages of assorted DG shit, stuff it.

>> No.78034035
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>> No.78034684

>>78019976
Seeing as the OP mentions Nemesis free at its source I'd petition too also mention that Degenesis is now free aswell.

>> No.78034786

>>78019976
>>Is there a point where something can be *too* bleak?
Not directly horror, but I just read the Man of Stone arc of Punisher MAX where O'Brien, one of few recurring characters, who got a whole lot of more awesome through the arc and had great interactions with Frank, was just lazily killed of by a random mine towards the end. That was definitly pointlessly bleak, as if to show that noone, really absolutly noone in this universe, and especially Frank, deserves any kind of happiness.

>> No.78035297

>>78034786
Garth Ennis is probably the most insufferable edgelord in general fiction and only tied with Stephen King for pretentious up-his-own-assism.

>> No.78035360

>>78035297
I don't know why King is so popular. I think it's because it has enough melodrama in it to appeal to normalfags.

>> No.78035428
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>>78035360
People read It and go on and on about how it's all about growing up and how it's so deep and insightful while King himself says he just did a lot of coke and started writing whatever came to mind. Ascribing depth and meaning to something where there is none, but now King just revels in it and pretends he's the smartest writer ever.

Doesn't help that in the case of It everyone thinks it's about a scary clown and not an interdimensional spider fighting an interdimensional turtle after an extremely creepy pedo scene.

>> No.78035440
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>>78035297
At least King has a generally decent-to-good body of work behind him and an interesting cosmology backing it. He has all kinds of flaws, but his work is rarely so bleak or dull that you'd focus on them.

Ennis just writes shit like Crossed and Punisher unironically and it does little beyond acting as proof of him not really understanding how someone builds a compelling narrative. Crossed especially, since you can tell how literally every story ends at a glance: Crossed win and skullfuck the cast to death.

>> No.78035465

>>78035360
The only stories I like by him is his short stories from the 90's and Desperation. My aunt though loves Stephen King and you might be right, it has a lot of melodrama as well as being comedically over the top with its horror where it just more of a theme park ride.

>> No.78035498

>>78035428
Being fair, the sewer scene happens after they stop Pennywise the first time.

As it is, most people care about Dark Tower more as the measure of King's literary merit than It. Which I can at least credit since it's inarguably his best work. Shame about the movie adaptation though.

>> No.78035518
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>>78035440
After pretty much any line of dialogue or panel in The Boys or Crossed you can really hear him going "oooo, are you offended yet? hehe >:3"

>> No.78035562

>>78035360
>>78035465
>>78035498
The only Stephen King stuff I enjoyed was Misery and Children of the Corn, in both cases just because I like the movies but never read the books. Apparently Misery the book is much more on the nose and subtle about Wilkes being a psychopath from the start which ruins the creepiness, and either it's just really sloppily written or goes hard on the r/atheism shit that Children of the Corn the book is apparently not creepy or engaging.

>> No.78035575

>>78035440
I don't mind Ennis. It's just his worst work ends up becoming his most popular. He can actually write a good narriative with an editor. Hitman or Dastardly and Muttley is leagues better than Preacher, Boys and whatever and yet almost no one has ever heard of it.

>> No.78035603

>>78035562
The short story has an ooga booga tentacle monster kill the main guy or something.

>> No.78035694

>>78035428
>>78035360
>>78035297
>>78035440

Man it's pretty clear people here have never even picked up King since they can only talk about him in the memes.

The idea of him being "pretentious" is one of the most hilarious things ever since he's pretty upfront about being a workingman "popular" author. Reading his essays where he actually speaks directly to the reader and he always comes off as pretty down-to-earth and humble.

And honestly... there's a lot to like about his writing, at least the early stuff. He feels like someone who wanted to write about small-town America and just happened to add in horror elements. I have to wonder if there's an alternate universe where he's mainly known as a "New England Gothic" writer.

>> No.78035699

>>78035518
That and he often defunds whatever value or hope you can find in those stories. +100 was great for showing that eventually, the Crossed would just self-destruct themselves into nonexistence because of their inability to grow or change or maintain stability which would eventually allow the broken remnants of humanity to gather nd repopulate.

But NOPE. Instead humanity has a massive fucking case of the dumb and the attempt to wipe out the Salt Clan leads to everyone getting caught in a massive infection bomb that causes a resurgence of the once-dwindling Crossed. Because Ennis can't allow anyone to have nice things.

>>78035562
Children of the Corn apparently ties into the deeper Dark Tower stuff with He Who Walks Behind The Rows being a form of Randall Flagg, but the movies just increasingly made it a generic giant monster from what I know.

>> No.78035756

>>78035699
+100 was written by Moore then later Spurrier.

>> No.78035799

>>78035694
Yeah, I dislike how King has just become some sort of figure for shitposting. He's not even the worst author in the genre, or even that bad of an author period. People just hate him because he's one of the most popular that's still around.

He's always come off to me as a guy who makes things centre around relatable concepts (clowns, children, greys, rabid animsls) but likes to add a supernatural horror twist to them. And that's fine.

>> No.78035809

>>78035575

Preacher is okay, but he really took all the wrong lessons from it when it got popular.

The edgy parts of Preacher work sort of okay because they're balanced by turning into a quick joke, or by alternating it with some more heartfelt parts.

>> No.78035865

>>78035756
You're right, but it continues off groundwork Ennis already laid just like every other piece of Crossed media. It's depressing misery porn and not even the kind that's entertaining to read through.

The number of stories where the Crossed genuinely lose can be counted on a hand.

>> No.78035891

>>78035799
>>78035562

Well, it's not surprising since no one actually reads King anymore, so all we have left are the memes. More people are familiar with Doug Walker shitting on King than with King's actual work.

Salem's Lot is still a bang-up vampire story. I admire him as someone who clearly just loves writing and made a living off of it. Good on him.

>> No.78036003

>>78035865
Preacher was "how bad can I offend religious people."
Crossed was "how much can I shock people."
Boys was "how much I can both shock and offend everyone reading."
He's a hack. Writing something offensive isn't a problem, but offense for offense's sake is obnoxious and makes him look like an edgy retard.

>> No.78036222

>>78035694
>>78035799
Okay I was being a bit too harsh on King and his themes. Not that Anon who said he thinks King is pretentious though mind. I just think he is overrated, but I think that's just a problem of entryism within the fanbase.

Like how someone only reads (or just watches) ASoIaF and says "its the best fantasy" ever, without having much genre knowledge. Same with DBZ and anime. You have someone who only reads Stephen King, but never goes any deeper. Which now that I look at it, it is a bit dumb and hipsterish to judge an artists merit based on their fanbase. So I kinda retract my statement here.>>78035360

>> No.78036312

>>78035694
>>78035799
King is highly overrated and quality of writing's pretty subjective.

>> No.78036318

>>78035799
I can kinda get the hate behind his gimmicky writing but after that it's definitely hate for how overhyped he is.

>>78035865
Calling Ennis out on his bullshit is fine but blaming him for the edge he didn't write is ridiculous. This was Moore's/Spurrier's fault. They could've made the story more hopeful instead since it wasn't like he was supervising them to make it stay edgy.

>> No.78036389

>>78036318
>This was Moore's/Spurrier's fault.
Moore definitely shouldn't have been allowed to write for Crossed at all. Dude has all but stated that he hates comics and his work has only been getting increasingly grim as time goes on and he gets on in years. Can't say anything for Spurrier, but writing for Crossed is basically a black mark anyway.

>> No.78036424

>>78036318
>crossed isn't edgelord trash to begin with

>> No.78036523

>>78036424
I'm not saying it's not. Only that it's stupid to blame one person when others were writing this garbage too.

>> No.78036576

I have no idea how well regarded basically anything other than his best known stuff is but I really loved the Tommyknockers and never hear anyone talk about it, top tier scifi horror. I also loved all four of The Bachman Books and think its pretty hilarious how two of them god mostly terrible adaptations. The ending of The Running man is one of my all time favorites.

I wonder if it would be possible to make a faithful adaptation of Roadwork or the School shooter one in the modern day without committing career suicide

>> No.78037061

>>78036312

How can we judge if someone is over or underrated if the baseline is purely subjective?

So here's a real take on the matter - King is pretty solid. Not the best, but by no means as bad as the meme detractors make him out to be. He has a keen understanding of the grosser parts of America and when he's on his game can translate that into pretty unsettling scenes. Still, he did have tremendously outsized popularity - so I guess you can say he's overrated?

Ironically, with people here calling him "pretentious" I think his major popularity came from being quite the opposite. When King started putting stuff out, when people thought "horror", they thought of Rosemary's Baby or the Exorcist - upper-middle-class American women getting threatened by vague entities.

King reached back to the EC Comics era to make horror "working class". If you've read anything by him, he highly identifies with lower-class America even if he grew out of that. He named his kid Joe Hill for fucks sake.

Before our culture fractured into hyper-specific consumerist tribes, King basically had open season on capturing the "average American" audience for horror. His popularity is hardly surprising and shouldn't be held against him.

>> No.78037537

>>78019976
huh, how long has this been around? great idea for a general.

>> No.78037570

>>78036576
Funnily enough King hates Tommyknockers, but I think he has weird feelings about any of his book written during his coke-addict period. Fucking hell, the man says he doesn't even remember writing Cujo. But yeah, nowadays he thinks Tommyknockers is a bit too bloated. I think it's alright as is.

>> No.78039034
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>> No.78039175

>>78032918
>Him
Yet again, u ppl r exposed as retards; you argue with ghosts so often I'm genuinely starting to believe no actually original elmfag existed to begin with and thar it's just an equally retarded meme some managed to force into existence.

Also, lol, post got deleted by badmin.

Anyway. . .
>Unless you have some alternative
We all talked about this 3~4 threads ago, the solution was agreed upon by everyone except for a single turbo autist. . . Pick a day out of the week and turn Horror General into a weekly thread (like Mecha General).

If it dies, it dies; just post a new one when the week rolls over.

Simple and Clean, problem solved. . . again. . . solved again. . . because we all talked about this shit before and all agreed to it except for the turbo autist.

>> No.78039196

I'm sick of trying to explain what Crossed was originally supposed to be about which was later changed.
I didn't expect argent of all people to misunderstand but that's him.

+100 came the closest back to that I'll be honest out of anything since Wish You were Here and it's the first to introduce the horrifying idea that The Crossed don't want to do any of this, that The Crossed are like mentally retarded children.

>Crossed especially, since you can tell how literally every story ends at a glance: Crossed win and skullfuck the cast to death.
Except the first arc ennis wrote.

Crossed isn't about zombies or nihilism it is and always has been about morality and people. This realization was pretty much the sole reason Moore even wanted to write for Crossed in the first place.
Never in a single Crossed story has a party killed someone off or left them to die and been better off. A lot of the stories focus on shitty people (disregard pretty much all of Borderlands and Psychopaths because they suck and were written with a divergent intention that is the bullshit you focus on)and that shitiness is why they die.

>> No.78039217

We wouldn't hate King if he wasn't popular.

The guy has a deep and expansive knowledge of the history of horror.

>> No.78039294
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>>78036318
>Calling Ennis out on his bullshit is fine but blaming him for the edge he didn't write is ridiculous. This was Moore's/Spurrier's fault. They could've made the story more hopeful instead since it wasn't like he was supervising them to make it stay edgy.
If I'm being honest a lot of the Edge that Ennis is infamous for he didn't write.

His entire career is predicated on going slightly more over the line than he needs to but to prove or serve a point. Even The Pro, as awful as it is, still had a point to make about superheroes and how they aren't able to help the people who really do need help.

We shouldn't be shittalking edge in a horror thread anyway. We should be talking about personal boundaries. Everything's "edgy" from a Amish perspective.

>> No.78039309

>>78036312
calling something overrated is a worthless criticism

>> No.78039327

>>78036523
Again, the problem with Ennis doesn't tend to be what he writes, it's who picks it up once he sets it down.

>> No.78039393

>>78039196
Except that literally everyone in all of Crossed is a "bad person".

Anon, I've read Crossed, and it's not the ideal you think it is. Ennis assumes that EVERYONE is as bad as the murderous psychopaths and serial rapists in his settings. And even if he's not the one who writes the majority of the worst shit, that general tone is what gets set for the remainder of the setting. Ennis plants the fucking seed and it inevitably attracts *actual* degenerates who get off on that kind of torture porn. Despite what Ennis might think, the entire world isn't so morally bankrupt that his "ackshually, everyone is like the Crossed!" holds any water.

>> No.78039425

>>78019976
i love maximum bleak in things, but it has to be done right or it can be tiresome or edgy. it's not /tg/, but Bloodborne presents its bleakness in the perfect way. it starts off low scale with individual lives being really rough, and then every layer above that is worse and worse all the way up.

>> No.78039440

>>78039196
Real talk: DG but SCP, does it still work?

>> No.78039484
File: 139 KB, 256x256, token_1(2).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78039484

>>78035865
>You're right, but it continues off groundwork Ennis already laid just like every other piece of Crossed media. It's depressing misery porn and not even the kind that's entertaining to read through.
Then why the hell did they survive the original arc? Why the hell did they have the whole speech at the end hammering you in the face about standing up to the worst parts of humanity and the world?
Why did anyone survive that initial arc, let alone the two most focused on characters when he could've easily killed them off for shock value?

It takes effort to make something that's gruelling in the way the original Crossed arc is or Wish You Were Here.

The original Crossed arc is what The Walking Dead WISHES it was in terms of writing and how well it comes across. The moment when the old man spoke up at the campfire 2/3 of the way through after traveling with them for so long is something that will probably stay with me forever, and that wasn't some shock moment like someone getting raped.
Like most of the comic it's bringing up a situation and forcing them to deal with how to most morally deal with it. Even the situation with the kids.

>>78039393
Except everyone who leaves shakey to die in Wish You Were Here. Except the parents.

>"ackshually, everyone is like the Crossed!" holds any water.
Fuck you. You missed the entire point again. The Crossed aren't people they're mob violence and mob rule manifest. They're the worst parts of humanity pushed to the forefront and standing up to that is probably the most brave and terrifying thing a person can do.

The Crossed virus flips the programming in your head so everything your brain tells you not to do, even subconsciously, stuff you don't want to do, you do. It doesn't matter what thoughts you had in your head.

The point of +100 is despite how bleak things got humanity *survived*. They only failed again as they made the same mistakes.

>> No.78039505

>>78020882
>depressing
It was boring

>> No.78039600
File: 512 KB, 975x1400, 1604971080433.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78039600

>>78039196
I'll admit that Ennis isn't anywhere near as bad as I made him out to be, but he's still got problems as a writer and I don't think that can be argued. That most of his body of work attracts genuinely worse people who only use it as an excuse to put atrocities to page without any greater message, even moreso.

After a while, it just gets exhausting. If I want to read characters failing time and time again or the world increasingly going to shit, I could go through Second Apocalypse again. There has to be a genuine payoff beyond simply not dying or getting infected. Moral victories are fine, but they have to mean something that doesn't just get overwhelmed by raw viscera or gorey details every time the Crossed are onscreen.

>> No.78039641
File: 2.05 MB, 1275x1629, Stalker_Jeu_de_role.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78039641

>>78039484
>>78039393
Nobody ever said in The Crossed that the crossed is everyone because everyone is morally bankrupt underneath and it's revealing that, it's what they can be DRIVEN to do by differing intentions.

Afolf Eichmann committed atrocities because he was told to do so and did not question assuming the intentions were good. ANYONE can get sucked into some kind of awful thing just by "doing their job" or "doing the right thing".
That's what The Crossed is, it's a human being swept up in something like that, some big movement, some ideology that justifies, to the point where they are past reasoning with. They are the crowd who captures an accused pedophile and castrates him before trial. They are everything to do with the dog-pile that is cancel culture.
You've met them and seen them online, regardless of what side of the aisle you are on.
In fact in this day and age it tends to be how each political side sees the opposition.

THIS is why they are a good monster.
Because like zombies, like vampires, like ghosts or witches you can see them in what scares you in society and they aren't meant to represent one particular thing.

NOBODY who is a Crossed likes the things they are doing and that aspect adds an additional level of almost spiritual horror: if you are infected by The Crossed, your soul is forfeit. Actions will be committed against your will and you will go to hell. You will watch it happen.
And there is nothing you can do.

>>78039600
>That most of his body of work attracts genuinely worse people who only use it as an excuse to put atrocities to page without any greater message, even moreso.
This I will agree with.
>Moral victories are fine, but they have to mean something that doesn't just get overwhelmed by raw viscera or gorey details every time the Crossed are onscreen.
This is the problem with 2/3 of the crossed media written and it's why I can never wholeheartedly recc the series to anyone.

>> No.78039722

>>78039484
>The point of +100 is despite how bleak things got humanity *survived*. They only failed again as they made the same mistakes.
No, they failed because the story assumes people are lemmings who'll always, without fail, charge into things and get themselves killed (or worse, given the setting). This sort of shit is criticized in horror movies all the time and I'm not sure why Crossed is being exempt from the same treatment. Assuming that people don't have brains or know how to think is one of the biggest criticisms of horror as a genre. It's why most people can't separate good horror from plain psychological drivel or genuine schlocky splatterfests.

I get that you like Crossed based on its own merits and that's good and all, but you're missing the point of the opposition here. The message you value so much is never presented in any way that would make it seem like it means shit. It's either used as a way to establish how the Crossed behave and then show it to you as everyone you came to give a shit about gets infected, murdered or violently raped with their organs hanging out. Or it's used to showcase how stupid people are and send a heavyhanded message in the same vein as "SEE? SEE? THIS IS WHAT WE ARE"? Repeatedly.

I think the best example of this sort of tone with Crossed is that one guy who tried to save his family by making a circle of salt on the ground to keep the Crossed away. Basically a page or so later, his daughter has been torn in half, him and his wife are getting fucked pu the ass with their intestines hanging out and his wife is cursing him out in mad semi-infected rage. That's not fun, that's not enjoyable and its not conveying a greater message or purpose. It's shock value for the sake of shock value.

>> No.78039743
File: 283 KB, 1853x1227, Warrens-Occult.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78039743

>>78039600
Keep in mind the fact that Crossed +100 exists at all is sort of a victory in and of itself.
It's actually a pretty peaceful and cozy apocalypse aside from how easily and quickly it can get dismantled.
The dialog and second-speech was annoying but the society Moore built was pretty damn interesting. How often do you see an apocalyptic setting that's sexually liberated in the way Crossed +100 was?
Also how it took often ignored aspects of post-apocalyptic life like what happens to nuclear reactors after they melt down from disuse or intentional sabotage and focuses on it.

>> No.78039751

>>78039196
Crossed is absolutely about nihilism.

>> No.78039771

>>78039722
>I think the best example of this sort of tone with Crossed is that one guy who tried to save his family by making a circle of salt on the ground to keep the Crossed away. Basically a page or so later, his daughter has been torn in half, him and his wife are getting fucked pu the ass with their intestines hanging out and his wife is cursing him out in mad semi-infected rage. That's not fun, that's not enjoyable and its not conveying a greater message or purpose. It's shock value for the sake of shock value.

And again, you missed the point of that scene.
The point of that scene wasn't just shock value it was to show early on that The Crossed aren't zombies who have one big weakness we can exploit.

Moore even confronted Ennis about it and Ennis said it was so he'd get some level of respect from not shying away from the violence so early on in the book since that's a very easy thing to do as a creator.

>> No.78039789

>>78039771
The point of them showing a violent gang rape om the spread was 100% for shock value.

>> No.78039868
File: 15 KB, 323x400, arthur-machen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78039868

>>78039722
>No, they failed because the story assumes people are lemmings who'll always, without fail, charge into things and get themselves killed (or worse, given the setting). This sort of shit is criticized in horror movies all the time and I'm not sure why Crossed is being exempt from the same treatment. Assuming that people don't have brains or know how to think is one of the biggest criticisms of horror as a genre. It's why most people can't separate good horror from plain psychological drivel or genuine schlocky splatterfests.
Because they did the fatal sin of Crossed which is underestimate the crossed and treat them like zombies, like non-thinking impulsive creatures.
This is reasonable as it's been long enough where most of them haven't even seen a "plus faced" in years.
And people aren't lemmings, future tried to tell them and warn them but they wouldn't listen just like a lot of gung-ho types. Remember 9/11 and the iraq war?
That's a part of humanity too, and it's combined with fear.

>The message you value so much is never presented in any way that would make it seem like it means shit.
They still killed off all of the smart crossed in the original arc so it wouldn't spread.
It's really the fault of later iterations which brought it back which devalued that. It's a point of the series that they have never been brought back for any future issues or went "OH THEY'RE MAD/DEAD NOW".
>It's either used as a way to establish how the Crossed behave and then show it to you as everyone you came to give a shit about gets infected, murdered or violently raped with their organs hanging out
Wish You were Here used it to show how selfishness and good intentions can pile up in a way that ruins the lives of everyone around you.
Shakey was a character where you could understand everyone of his choices and see yourself making most of them but it still made him a piece of shit.

>> No.78039879

>>78039440
Depends on the scale you're going for. The SCP cosmology is massive and some iterations of the Foundation work better for what DG represents than others.

>>78039743
>The dialog and second-speech was annoying but the society Moore built was pretty damn interesting. How often do you see an apocalyptic setting that's sexually liberated in the way Crossed +100 was?
It's not horror or really apocalyptic, but Elf Quest springs to mind.

>> No.78039901
File: 171 KB, 960x960, TPB-2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78039901

>>78039789
>"And I spoke to Garth [Ennis] and Garth was accepting that it was a point of view, he also said it was a pity that I hadn't persevered with it because they'd put all of the most deliberately upsetting stuff up front to get respect, if you will. And then they were exploring the different issues afterward."-Moore 2015

To be fair we do get a lot of art that says "Stand up to bad stuff! Be an individual!" But more often than not we sanitize what that stuff looks like or what people are capable of, what people need to be prepared for when you fight this.

>> No.78039995

People here are intensely talking about scriptwriting of Garth Ennis, but I cannot read his comics because of the art they use. I know late Steve Dillon is very respected and Jacen Burrows is skilled but I just hate their artstyles. Both of them have that same kind of bland, unexpressive style that is just boring to watch. Apparently Ennis himself likes that stylesince most of the other artists he uses also have that same kind of look that I personally just find unappealing to look at.

>> No.78040023

>>78039868
>Because they did the fatal sin of Crossed which is underestimate the crossed and treat them like zombies
The Crossed already have plot armor above and beyond what other zombie apocalypse stories get, and again the main cast is always completely retarded and still doesn't understand how they act despite a long time of fighting them.

It's just misery and (literal) gore porn. Garth can spout off whatever bullshit he wants about "having a deeper meaning" or "wanting to be respected", but ultimately, he's an untalented hack who gets off on his own supposed intellect and wants to shock people with extremely edgy content because he's a nihilistic cunt with PTSD from the Troubles.

>> No.78040052
File: 559 KB, 1301x2000, ABS-PREACHER-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78040052

I get what people have an issue with, with Crossed.

I defend it because it's hard for art to affect me in the way the original Arc, Wish You Were here, and +100 did.

I don't think I've felt much like that since the Eclipse in Berserk or during Hannibal. I've read stuff with worse content that didn't affect me nearly as strongly.

>>78039995
This part I understand really well and off the bat I'm gonna say one of the worst parts about The Crossed is the art for most of it isn't that great. Even +100 midway in changed artists and it goes from a semi-realistic highly conceptual style to one with a semi-anime style with true black shading and holy shit is that style disgusting.

>> No.78040074

It's funny that Garth seems to like Superman and writes him relatively positively when he hates everything else and goes out of his way to shit on anything right of Mao, anything religious, anything British, anything American, anything traditional, anything fun, anything related to superheroes, anything related to fantasy, and anything related to general moral standards. But Superman's fine, apparently.

>> No.78040096

>>78039771

>so he'd get some level of respect

That makes it pretty clear he was focused entirely on how people would perceive him rather than actually having any message with that part.

>> No.78040126
File: 190 KB, 600x911, Crossed early art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78040126

>>78040023
>The Crossed already have plot armor above and beyond what other zombie apocalypse stories get, and again the main cast is always completely retarded and still doesn't understand how they act despite a long time of fighting them.
Because they act intensely differently from one another? Because by their very nature they are unpredictable and individual in ways they act?
Or the fact that it's been 100 years since the crossed were even remotely prominent so as a result the majority of people born in this world have never seen a crossed even with all of the constant mock fighting drills they do to prep for a potential attack?

>still doesn't understand how they act despite a long time of fighting them.
Despite the fact that they're fighting a completely different strain who now has long-term planning capabilities which is why they died in the first place? Because "smart crossed" who are capable of delaying gratification are incredibly rare and dangerous and that was the entire point of why this new strain/cult is so bad?
Like... that was the entire point of the burned face character and how they took out Future's hometown?

If you want to be reductionist and make things easy to fit into the box shape in your head fine, just don't say it's a box when it's got more sides than that.

>>78040096
You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

>> No.78040133

>>78040074

What's funnier is how troll-logic his hatred is sometimes.

It's telling how much the Boys TV show had to change to actually make the critique of superheroes mean something.

>> No.78040144

>>78040133
They didn't really change all that much

>> No.78040183
File: 150 KB, 914x1417, nyARlathotep.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78040183

>>78040074
Maybe because he still believes positivity and optimism has a place in the world?
Or is that conflicting evidence to be discarded in favor of the bandwagon?

>> No.78040260
File: 2.29 MB, 3264x2448, Death-in-June-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78040260

fuck this ima out

I should really be elsewhere getting something done. Finished Strange Aeons by Robert Bloch recently.

You can see its influence on modern versions of Cthulhu mythos stuff everywhere from Shadows of Yog-Sothoth to Steven Alzis.

>> No.78040267

>>78039751
Honestly, this seems like a great faction to have the players start as.

>> No.78040297

>>78040126
Different anon, the Crossed are fucking gay.
If I found out my GM looked at Crossed for things to do rather than things to not do I would leave the game in a heartbeat.
The Crossed is, "LAWL sooooo RANDUMB" + Gores Galore and the only thing of value to be taken from the series is lessons in bad story telling.
If I'm going into it knowing I shouldn't be taking anything in the game seriously I'd be down, but the series is a joke and any inspo taken from it should only be used for joke games.

>> No.78040298

>>78039879
>SCP cosmology
Fair enough, some of the lore has them regularly engaging in space travel and dimensional teleportation regularly.

>> No.78040373

>>78040297
The Crazies (original + remake) is Crossed done right. Highly infectious virus destabilizes people and causes mania, driving some to become sadistic killers and sexual deviants. But it's actually done well. The whole "humans can be monsters" is done well. Not every infected person becomes homicidal, some are peaceful and just insane. Others don't kill for fun, they kill for revenge. Though both end fairly bleakly, there's still little triumphs and hope for an end to it. They don't run around screaming "LOL HORSEDICK XD", they don't act like shitty anime characters with retarded x's on their faces, they act like people infected by a virus that brings out their worst impulses. It's disturbing but not edgy, shocking but not gratuitous. It's what Garth wishes he could write.

Crossed is just nihilistic nonsense and literal torture porn disguised as a story.

>> No.78040401

>>78040133
It's hard to tell whether he's sincerely hateful of everything or just trolling. He did say the troubles in Ireland fucked him up at least, so there's definitely some general "fuck the world" anger going on there.

>> No.78040782

>>78040074
So what, that's 99.999% of /tg/ including this thread: old, good; new, bad. The man grew up with superman, so that nostalgia boner is going to be hard on the man of steel. But that doesn't change the rest of his abrasive as fuck cynical nature and irreverent personality (like the super majority of you faggots).

>> No.78040927

>>78040373
Honestly anything involving Garth is a steaming pile of shit, I mean Christ, the guy hates the Superhero genre but is a Superman fanboy, like what the fuck.
I wouldn't compare Crossed to The Crazies though, as what Crossed has going for it isn't a matter of believability, moreso a matter of incredibly absurdity. But Crossed isn't absurd horror for the sake of absurd horror, it's this cringey ass "RAGE AGAINST BRO" masquerading as such.
The entire Crossed series is a western manchild's Rage Against Work, an over glorified temper tantrum.
Why do the Crossed have crosses? Because it's a juvenile attack on Christianity.
Why is the series full of soft-core gore and face value mindbreak? To be edgy.
The unique horror elements of Crossed go wasted and misunderstood as the series just serves as a way for Garth to stroke his own ego.
Crossed exist just to stand as another testament to wasted genre potential and the glorification and normalization of shit taste.

>> No.78040942

You guys know a supplement book in any setting that focused on horror themed traps or hazards, things that mindscrew the players and characters without necessarily being active opposition ? Looking for inspiration.

>> No.78040945

>>78040782
>that's 99.999% of /tg/ including this thread
You think 99% of /tg/ is nihilistic far-left atheists?
>old, good; new, bad
That's not Garth.

>> No.78040972

>>78040401

I mean that's fine, but he seems to be trying to make "points" that don't really have a logical follow-through.

Like the Boys is supposed to be a... critique of superheroes? A deconstruction? But it's totally divorced from what could be legitimate criticisms of the genre.

Similarly, the Crossed seems like an attempt to critique zombies... but basically misses the point there as well.

This is probably why people like Preacher more, it kinda jumped around and covered a lot of things and didn't tie itself to a genre Garth didn't understand.

>> No.78041013

>>78040972
Even Preacher was still a miss-the-point critique of religion that doesn't actually give any criticism besides "God dum religin dum".

>> No.78041065

>>78039901
>because they'd put all of the most deliberately upsetting stuff up front to get respect, if you will
IE shock value

>> No.78041099
File: 329 KB, 1932x2576, ja9z6i7gge231.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78041099

>>78039901
>i made something edgy to look cool
That sums it up.

>> No.78041127

>>78035562
>Apparently Misery the book is much more on the nose and subtle about Wilkes being a psychopath
Do you people even know what words mean? How can something be more on the nose AND more subtle?

>> No.78041141

>>78041127
*less subtle
It's called a typo.
But yeah, in Misery the book he wakes up and Wilkes is just instantly this fat, weird creep with none of the cheery buildup in the movie.

>> No.78041156

>>78037570
Tommyknockers is from when King was in peak cocaine mode and it fucking shows. The book has three halves.

>> No.78041169

>>78041141
It was a stupid post regardless but sure I'll give you your typo. You should probably read books before criticizing them.

>> No.78041198
File: 169 KB, 223x306, 56DEFCB4-25B0-42FA-9FA7-5C6C552A26BB.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78041198

>>78019976
How do I make Curse of Strahd more spooky?

>> No.78041222

>>78041198
make strahd a skeleton

>> No.78041238

>>78041222
2014 called. It wants its meme back

>> No.78041278

>>78041198
All about the presentation. If you constantly show him being an incel he's not going to be spooky at all. Showing the ruin he has helped bring to the land does this better than him constantly showing up to bug the players.

>> No.78041407

>>78040942
Most of the hazards in Impossible Landsca0es meet that descriptor, but that's probably too lethal for what you're looking for.

>> No.78041432

>>78041278
>Showing the ruin he has helped bring to the land
Got any examples?

>> No.78041446
File: 43 KB, 1200x628, sh-mod[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78041446

>>78041198
Combine the Domains of Dread with Silent Hill.

>> No.78041476

>>78041432
Its been a while but the parade of dead souls, the swamp of Berez and his various massacres against people are good starts, depending on where your players are at in the land. The Amber Temple is honestly a spookier place than Castle Ravenloft imo.

>> No.78041555

>>78026499
>posts onions content but hates when their onions gets jacked
Every Time

>> No.78041573 [DELETED] 

>>78035699
>Argent
Horrorverse needs to be purged from the Horror General.

>> No.78041596

>>78041555
Wtf I meant to post onions but it wrote onions

>> No.78041647

>>78040945
>You think
Yes.
>not Garth.
Everyone has their sacred cow, even atheists.

>> No.78041666

>>78041013

Oh yeah, the religious parts of it are easily the worst.

It's kinda acceptable when it's just about America in general.

Come to think of it, the religious criticism in Preacher is kind of a prequel to his later works. In order to critique it he needs to really squash the definition of God into a very narrow space, similarly how he has to distort superheroes to have his critique mean anything.

Not to digress too much from horror but its interesting to see good and bad ways of approaching central elements in writing and RPGs.

>> No.78041672

>>78041596
Naw, that's just how 4channel is.

>> No.78041683

>>78041647

Yeah, but Garth REALLY seems like an "old bad, new good" kind of guy.

>> No.78041856
File: 102 KB, 640x640, 1555262767973.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78041856

>>78041647
>yes
you're wrong

>> No.78043724

>>78041013
I'd say Preacher places importance on its characters over it's themes. The stuff that stands out to me from that series has always been the wacky roadtrip stuff and the relationship between Cassidy, Tulip and Jesse.

>> No.78044112

>>78040260
I've been trying to find a Fritz Leiber story called The Terror from the Depths. And I've recently started trying to get into Ramsey Campbell's long fiction.

>> No.78044126

>>78044112
http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?57322

>> No.78044142

>>78043724
I haven't read it but from what I've heard despite Garth's edgy atheism stuff he was trying to tell a story, at least in part, whereas Crossed/The Boys is nothing but shock, torture porn, and "haha subverted your expectations didn't I".

>> No.78044438

Man I post one thing from Ennis and the whole general degenerates again. Didn't know he triggered people so much.
Anyway, gonna enjoy my Welcome Back, Frank soon. Y'all stay frosty.

>> No.78044462

At least The Crossed is scary.

>> No.78045082

Are the many Cthulhu source books set in the 1960s/Vietnam War? 6e in particular.

>> No.78046350
File: 115 KB, 325x441, 1608362081797.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78046350

>> No.78047637

>>78044462
They're scary, but they'd be more enjoyable to read if they were just smart zombies and not rapist edgelords.

>> No.78047655

>>78045082
Isn't Fal of Delta Green set in Vietnam? Ain't the same system as CoC put I guess there have already been established some ways to port it.

>> No.78048813
File: 595 KB, 1250x1600, __original_drawn_by_mankappa__0e5e72c4efa719c1729f64e0712028cb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78048813

>> No.78049500

>>78041683
... I have a question for you, how is new old created? It might seem as a strange question, but new people create new ideologies all the time that new old people don't accept because they still hold to their "trend setting" ideology which at their age is the new old/tradition.

>> No.78049995
File: 91 KB, 720x493, 4essecq5byz51.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78049995

>> No.78050511

>>78047637
The virus is spread via bodily fluids. Rape as an infection method just makes sense.

>> No.78050528

>>78047655
>>78045082
Yeah Fall of Delta Green is your best bet.

That and Atomic Age Cthulhu which is the 50's and has a Korean War scenario that could be ported to Vietnam with some elbow grease.

>> No.78050577

>>78048813
oh that's gnarly

>> No.78050589

>>78050511
Rape Zombies was a shit movie and this game is gonna be shit because of it.

>> No.78050686

>>78040144
They changed almost every arc

>> No.78050715

>>78050511
Isnt that how 28 Days Later infected work

>> No.78050793

>>78035360
He's a bit all over the board, partially due to his drug habit. So it depends on which books you read. There is some real shit like Tommyknockers. When he nails it, he really nails it. He captures the small town, New England feel and add some horror elements. Misery creates a simple, terrifying situation without anything supernatural.
There is something about that idyllic, peaceful town that has something dark lurking underneath it. Perhaps because it taps into the fact that the whole happy suburban neighborhood with white picket fences doesn't really exist.

>> No.78051031

>>78050715
Yes, but they're too frenzied to rape. There's something of disgust in their anger, they don't seem to want to hurt as much as destroy.

>> No.78053398
File: 115 KB, 700x1039, acf6cc2289ad2a1546da227e86f7d5c3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78053398

The real question is: Did Griffith do anything wrong?

>> No.78053412
File: 3.58 MB, 2400x1500, 1614643701223.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78053412

I was going to bump the thread with more Little Nightmares 2 concept art but it is not letting me copy the images from the PDF artbook I have.

>> No.78054154

>>78053398
Who?

>> No.78054283

>>78053412
Holy shit they released a 2e?

>> No.78054931

>>78054154
Have you been living under a rock anon?

>> No.78054936

>>78051031
There's definitely an appeal to that, as you can have several encounters with the undead and without worrying about bites and/or transmission.

>> No.78054944

>>78054154
Based and Westernpilled

>> No.78055022

>>78054936
Yes and no. 28DL zombies are ferociously infectious with an incubation period of seconds. They don't deliberately act to infect, but their bodies are covered in open wounds and they do spit.

>> No.78055245

>>78050715
>>78051031
Yeah, 28-zombies don't rape. They're quite classical in the sense that they kill and munch but nothing else. The scientist at the beginning of the first saying the virus is "rage" is quite nailing it on the head.

>> No.78055447

>>78041238
Take me back with it PLEASE

>> No.78055494

>>78019976
>Degenesis
I'm a nogame but would buy novels set in this universe, I love it so much

>> No.78055702

Is there any resource for which DG scenarios are in/likely to get a compilation book? I almost ordered a copy of Last Equation only to find out it was in Black Sites. Is victim of the arts likely to get in one or is it safe to get?

>> No.78056838

>>78053398
Him fucking the princess in a desperate attempt to be able to assert control over anything. Everything else is understandable as a consequence of hitting his lowest point.

>> No.78056860

>>78055702
Pretty sure victim of the arts is in one

>> No.78058746

>>78054283
They made a second art book if that's what you mean, yes.

>> No.78059226
File: 640 KB, 640x960, thecrazies.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78059226

>>78050715
28 Days Later zombies don't rape, they just kill. They aren't sadistic about it either, they just punch, choke, and bite you to death. The only intelligence ever seen isn't one cracking jokes or laughing ala Crossed, it's the kid in the diner screaming "fuck you" repeatedly at the main character as he tries to claw his face off.

>>78044462
>>78047637
Pic related is how you do intelligent psycho "zombies" right.

>> No.78059973
File: 871 KB, 860x579, 1603573303618.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78059973

>> No.78060162

As much of a dick sucking faggot GE is, Rover Red Charlie looks pretty fucking good.

>> No.78060398

>>78019976

>>What is your favorite bleak setting?

When I recently looked into the lore of the Half-Life Universe concerning the Combine.

H.P. Lovecraft tier eldritch techno gods chilling in a multidimensional Dyson array that engage in inconceivably vast and insidious levels of Orwellian Techno Fascism to plunder and parasitize whole worlds while genociding/incorporating the inhabitants into an ever increasing army of broken cyborg abominations.
Humans are not fighting to defeat the Combine, they're fighting just to close the main Portal so no more reinforcements can come, and it's still up in the are with Epistle 3 if the resistance even accomplished anything, all the while Earth has had a lot of it's resources like oceans plundered so is ecologically fucked.
and it puts into perspective that the aliens from Half-life 1 were really either servitors or escaped slaves,


>>What do you think is the most hopeless setting you've ever seen?

good runners up are The Nightland and Kult

but to me, ultimate one is from this old anime called Texhnolyze
no ancient gods, no metaphysical prisons, just humans losing any desire to progress, and are just dying off from either nihilistic violence or apathy.

>> No.78061515

>>78060398
KULT is fairly bleak, and even if humanity awakens that's not really a good thing. Humanity was brought down to mortality and imprisoned in physical forms because before that happened, they were all powerful celestial god-tyrants who almost obliterated the entire universe. Humanity returning to power just trades one set of evils in the form of the Demiurge, Archons and the local Devil for even worse ones from humanity itself.

>> No.78062375

>>78019976
>How hopeless do you like your games, if at all?
Different levels of hopelessness. It might be impossible for the characters to improve things on a small scale - the town is already enslaved by parasites - but they can do so on a larger one by preventing it from happening again.
If you go even further up the ladder, it might be possible (with long odds) for any human or mortal power to prevent a disaster like that one from happening again. It could be the parasites are engineered by a far more advanced species that seeded the entire galaxy with them, and you can only purge them quickly before they have time to eat a whole town. Not prevent them from reaching Earth.
And if you go even higher in power levels, it might be like 40k. Every faction seems to be on the verge of total ruin and inevitable victory at the same time. Total narrative freedom to do whatever you want!

Or you can do one of my favorite narrative tricks and tell a story of total hopelessness with zero exceptions ever. Then jerk the wheel in the other direction at the last second and end on an objectively hopeful and positive note. Extra points for doing what Fallout: New Vegas did and picking a REALLY SPECIFIC form of hope to pick apart and deconstruct, then reconstructing it more dramatically than any other game in the series.

>> No.78062864

>>78055494
Yeah they could do amazing things with the IP, too bad Marko is an idiot.

>> No.78063581

>>78036003
doesnt he have a really retarded hateboner for superheroes
>cap america is disrespectful to ww2
>meanwhile ww2 vets loved him at the timr

>> No.78063625

>>78041666
>Oh yeah, the religious parts of it are easily the worst.
can you elaborate on both preacher and the boys and why its criticism is worthless, ive never watched either

>> No.78064592
File: 1.25 MB, 400x299, fv01dgegzvr51.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78064592

>> No.78066268

>>78055245
Doesn't he say rage because the virus is literally called the Rage virus?

>> No.78066821

How do you guys stay focused and flesh out the details in your settings? I get really hung up on and distracted by the big picture and overarching themes etc. It's driving me nuts.
Sorry this isn't a horror specific question but I am working on a horror setting and didn't want to shit up the catalog.

>> No.78067027

>>78066821
Come up with shit during the session then figure out the why or how later.
Themes can and are supposed to develop naturally over time as you run the campaign.

>> No.78067776

>>78041647
>most of tg is far left atheist
Are you stupid or baiting

>> No.78067956

>>78066821
As someone in a similar position as yourself, I think my preferred advice is going to be that you need grounding. Work your way up to the big stuff, and don't try to rush your way to it.

>> No.78068575

>>78019976
Right, is it me or the published Delta Green adventures incredibly hard to run/read 'cause it just seems like a fucking vaguely organized novellla instead of an adventure with chapters.

The only adventure I could run without having to make a cliffnotes for it was Last Things Last. Any advice on how to remedy how weird DG modules are?

>> No.78068785

>>78019976
IMO the best party about any Call of Cthulhu or any "realistic" horror themed game is when you can tie to something that actually happened.

Something like a real life missing persons case or the Chicago Fire. Then, while they're investigating, you give them a handout of a real newspaper or police report from that time. Now the players aren't sure where they'll find the line between reality and fiction.

>> No.78068999

>>78068575
Some are better than others. Reverberations is awful for it - mostly just a collection of disconnected scene chunks with very little investigation structure. Music from a Darkened Room, Observer Effect, and Viscid are better examples imo: If I'm paying for a pre-written adventure, I shouldn't have to write half of it myself. Though Reverb could be fixed by a simple investigate a crime scene start. Which are you having trouble with?

>> No.78069085

>>78068999
I wanted a quick and easy pickup adventure like Last Things Last 'cause it was a substitution for a game that got cancelled last minute. I tried picking the adventures with the smallest file size, but shit like Contagion or the last cell is just a jumbled mess of scenes and descriptions and didn't even clearly give me:

1) What the Investigators know at the beginning
2) What they're sposed to do
3) where do they exactly begin the adventure
4) have several vague NPC descriptions they expect you to fill in for

I also hate stuff like The Last Cell 'cause they expect you to give several shits about the metaplot about M-Cell or whatever and expect you to trawl through another DG book in order to run the fucking adventure. Observer Effect looks way better organized

Unrelated: Whenever I ran Last Things Last twice, on each of the occasions, the investigators backwards long jumped it and came out with no SAN Loss whatsoever. I remember a Seth Skorkowsky video saying it took his 3-4 players 3 hours to do the adventure, and in both times I ran it, it took like a singular hour.

They just dunked on Marlene in the septic tank, the second time being a player getting a crtiical hit with a 12 gage shotgun. Delta Green is just a silly Glowie Simulator at this point.

>> No.78069153

>>78068575
They're made to be more sandboxy than scene by scene conventional adventures. This allows it to be more reactive to players and vice versa.
You aren't supposed to be reading out of the module the whole time.

According to interviews with Tynnes, this is intentional as its a reaction to the scripted linear nature of early CoC adventures where if you deviate the gm's dick is swinging in the wind. Think The Worm that Walks from Shadows of Yog-Sothoth.

As for the organization itself? I have no idea. I've never had a problem with them.
They seem structured into portions.

>> No.78069185

>>78069085
>They just dunked on Marlene in the septic tank, the second time being a player getting a crtiical hit with a 12 gage shotgun. Delta Green is just a silly Glowie Simulator at this point.
Doesn't she have like 2+ points of armor?

Also you weren't making yoir players cover their tracks enough

>> No.78069319

>>78063625
I've not watched it either, but from secondhand it doesn't seem like he actually criticizes anything, rather just insults it and says it's objectively bad but without a reason. Preacher is just "God is bad, religion is dumb, if you're religious you're dumb". Boys is more broad and bashes everything from Christianity (Christian villain doesn't become good until she becomes an Atheist), conservatism/right-wing politics in general, and a cynicism that if anyone had superpowers they'd immediately and without exception all be evil and do terrible things. Except Superman, because, uh, because.

I'm a theist with faith in Christ, so I may be a little biased, but I can at least see where Garth's coming from. According to him in interviews, he watched people kill and die right in front of him as a kid, watched car bombs go off, watched mutual massacres happen, all because of the Troubles, which he blames mostly on religion. That and the way the conservative British government at the time handled it influences how he sees religious and politics. I can't judge him for what he believes because I've not had his experiences, just like he's not had mine. So in that sense, I disagree, but I don't hate him.

I still think he's an edgelord cunt about it though, and he's generally a shitty writer.

>> No.78069417

>>78067776
/tg/ leans left. Also mind that "leans left" is not the same as "SJW". Things are a bit more right leaning in the wargame part though.

>> No.78069590

>>78069185
>Doesn't she have like 2+ points of armor?
She has like 3 but like the dude dealt 28 points of damage with the shotgun he had [I picked it having 2d10 damage from the quickstart rules]. Marlene only had 23 hitpoints.

>Covering tracks
Like, what tracks were there to leave? they in both scenarios just bluffed their way past the nosy neighbor, got inside, went through the bare apartment for the cabin location, and vamoosed to the cabin after. After they dealt with marlene, they just dropped off whatever stuff they found to a DG greenbox and ollied out.

>> No.78070071

>>78053398
no, he had no real choice, destiny is a bitch

>> No.78070342

I need system recommendation:

Has anyone played the Haunting Ground videogame? You know, survival horror with chase mechanics in a hide-and-seek type of gameplay, pretty much like the Clock Tower videogames.

What RPG system would you advice for that kind of stuff?

Some ideas that came to mind were Call of Cthulhu and Chronicles of Darkness, both having nice chase (for the hide-and-seek type of horror) and investagion (for the survival horror puzzle-solving and backtracking) mechanics.

I also thought about Survive the Night (for the nice panic mechanic) or Strain (for the nice stress and doom meters).

Any ideas, opinions and recommendations are very much welcomed. Thanks in advance!

>> No.78070372

>>78070342
>Call of Cthulhu and Chronicles of Darkness
These are top tier choices. AFMBE has a worse chase system, but better combat (IMHO) than those two. You might also consider Into The Shadows (basically WEG d6 horror).

>> No.78070820

>>78059226
>the kid in the diner
Anon, the screaming isn't a sign that the infected are intelligent, it's a sign the kid is human.

>> No.78070895

>>78069085
>>78069590
Marlene should get back up after a hot minute. My game went south for my squad fast when one guy (of two) failed his SAN roll upon seeing her. Got enough for a temp insanity too. It's not written to be challenging but they ended up losing her after a chase in the woods. The SAN loss from burning her should be considerable regardless. How'd your lad manage to pop her?
I've found DG adventures to be pretty awful at beginnings - there is a lot that needs to be considered regarding setup: how under the radar are you? What are your covers? What to do when you hit the ground. But yet most give nothing regarding a cover. From my own research the default assumption is that everybody is part of an FBI joint task force so classified nobody is allowed to know what they're doing. Operate on that unless it tells you otherwise. Consider listening to a few actual plays to get a feel for it, that's what I intend to do.
On that note anybody got a good Actual Play of Reverberations?

>> No.78070963

>>78070895
>Marlene should get back up after a hot minute.
He blasted her with the shotgun [the same one shot he critted on] back into the septic tank that already had the burning fuel in it.

>The SAN loss from burning her should be considerable regardless.
Didn't matter 'cause they 1) lost minimal sanity 2) got it back after killing her when she tried attacking them

>How'd your lad manage to pop her?
He didn't open the hatch, he just shot a hole inside it to pour the fuel in. I then ruled she'll try to brute force open the hatch, which she did after about two rounds, and he used his second round to Aim when she got out of the septic tank with her 99 percent Athletics. Blasted her with a 2d10 shotgun crit.


>I've found DG adventures to be pretty awful at beginnings
Most my second group [the one with the crit shotty] did was dress up in black and say they're Private Eyes. The first group just dressed up as repairmen and convinced the nosy neighbor that they're to shut the facilities down at Baughman's apartment.

>> No.78071004

>>78069085
>they expect you to give several shits about the metaplot about M-Cell or whatever and expect you to trawl through another DG book in order to run the fucking adventure
That's what really turns me off from DG. I like the idea of government agents fighting eldritch shit in the shadows, but DG's setting is pants on head retarded and tangled deep into everything it's got.

>> No.78071150
File: 56 KB, 353x356, 1450558144264.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78071150

>>78069417
>/tg/ leans left

>> No.78071331

>>78040074
>goes out of his way to shit on anything right of Mao, anything religious, anything British, anything American, anything traditional, anything fun, anything related to superheroes, anything related to fantasy, and anything related to general moral standards.
All of these except perhaps moral standards and tradition are more left wing than anything.

>> No.78071708

Torn between running Viscid or Extremophilia from "Night at the Opera" for my delta green group, leaning towards the latter. Curious if people have any strong opinions on them. Going to be scrubbing any overt references to the Mi-Go, Nyarthy or Gavin Ross/MAJESTIC just because I prefer my DG material to be mostly divorced from the DG official canon but these both seem pretty neat

>> No.78072845
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78072845

Howdy, /hsg/. I'm running a Pathfinder campaign based on the Hell's Rebels AP (not necessary info, unless you're familiar with it), and while I've intentionally made the game much darker than the source material, the story is about to turn from one involving mostly human enemies to one about hunting ghosts, battling undead dragons, and even venturing into Hell itself. One problem I've encountered before with this sort of dramatic shift is that my players (perhaps logically) see little reason for their characters to interpret as inherently terrifying an aberration for example, even if they know what it looks like, considering horrible looking beasties, or indeed just wizards powerful enough to bend reality to their will/nuke entire villages, are hardly new to them.
>tl;dr what's your advice for porting Lovecraftian horror to a Howard-like story?

>> No.78072902

>>78071708
VISCID is probably the most "independent" from DG canon, since you can easily ignore the leads that take you to Ross. And you can easily replace ARD-15's and Dr. Whatever's link to MAJESTIC with whatever government black project you want.

>> No.78073203

>>78072845
It depends on what you define Lovecraftian horror as.

>> No.78073632

>>78072902
I am nearly done reading extremophilia and will read VISCID in its entirety next. It doesn't seem to difficult to cut it out of extremophilia, at the moment my plan is just to change the explicit nature of the Mi-Go to something more nebulous but leave the rest of the details the same, and then change the final encounter with the scientist's abduction by the Mi-Go into something else, either a different creature or maybe he just vanishes in a flash of blue light or his brain vanishes out of his body and the players get a little X-files moment to wonder if this means aliens are real. My only concern is that unless they go live and loud at the science facility my specops guy may not get a chance to go blanky mode on anything. We will see how viscid tickles my brain

>> No.78073753

>>78066268
I don't know, I guess either it being the official name (which is just stupid in general) or him being poetic (again pretty stupid for such a high tension situation that could've really benefitted from some clear information) are valid interpretations.

>> No.78074008

>>78073203
There I was using it as a byword for an encounter that the PCs treat as horrifying, not just in the sense that they might die from massive damage but because what they see doesn't make sense in their cosmology. In my game the typical incentive is to rush the monster a-la Conan and kill ASAP; I want them to flee sometimes because they're out of their depth. For instance I've toyed with adding a sanity mechanic for the tail-end of the game, but I'm not really looking for mechanical advice like that but rather ways of writing these things to break the confidence of the players so they feel it themselves.

>> No.78074253

Extremely surprised that DG as a franchise has not attempted to distance itself from the tcho tcho as a mythos entity. "This specific asian ethnic group is actually subhuman and objectively evil so being racist to them is actually correct and based as is their wholesale murder" is the sort of thing that gets retarded blue checkmarks stirred into a frenzy

>> No.78074491 [SPOILER] 
File: 83 KB, 500x500, 1615764958087.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78074491

>>78071150
sad but true

>> No.78074508

>>78074253
>tcho tcho
I didn't know about these guys, Lovecraft is the gift that keeps on giving. Though I'm sure they couldn't be worse than other Lovecraftian horrors like the Dagon fish people, or god forbid, the Italians

>> No.78074567

>>78019976
>>How hopeless do you like your games, if at all?
Very
>>What's the 'right' way to present inescapable hopelessness in a game?
World's fucked, but you might not be if you try hard enough

Currently I'm working on a setting that's basically "Skynet wins, and is also an actual vampire, like a supernatural one."


>What is your favorite bleak setting?
Nechronica
>What do you think is the most hopeless setting you've ever seen?
Black Sun Deathcrawl

>> No.78075337

I have several Glaaki based Call of Cthulhu scenarios I want to run. I also run Delta Green with the same group. I think they'd enjoy seeing what he has been up to since then, All Grown Up. Any Glaaki scenarios you'd recommend for DG or will I just have to make one up?

>> No.78075410

>>78074567
>Black Sun Deathcrawl
I remember this. I don't want to remember this, but I do.

>> No.78076044

>>78074508
Lovecraft didn't create Tcho-Tchos, or at least the lore for them. That was Derleth I think.

>>78074253
The thing is DG emphasizes how groups like Tcho-Tcho, or Black Cod Deep One hybrids predate on their "ethnic relatives", and how these groups loathe them, and jump at the opportunity to wipe them out. These groups are also no afraid to play identity politics cards to avoid close scrutiny.

>> No.78076496

>>78075337
Delta Green Countdown had a Glaaki scenario. Holy War I think

>> No.78076722
File: 38 KB, 320x243, Tcho—Tchos2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78076722

>>78074253
>>78074508
Yeah because well... they're genuinely not human and not actually a race of people?

They're a race of aliens that LOOK human and can crossbreed with humans and eventually takes over their DNA as they grow older?

to think the Tcho-Tcho are racist is missing the concept of what they are and looking at them from a surface level perspective. Deep ones and Hybrids are more human than a fully grown Tcho-Tcho.

This is what the Delta Green guys have explained ever single time the Tcho-Tcho get brought up by someone as a "racist stereotype". There's more human DNA in fish a Tcho-Tcho. They eat us.
To call the Tcho-Tcho a racist stereotype misses the entire horror of them in the first place. It's not that you're coming across a tribal civilization who might seem like immortal cannibals, it's that maybe a group of "people" you come across in the jungle... might not actually be people at all...
The horror of the Tcho-Tcho isn't "they'll steal our women/pollute our gene pool/could be already inside you" like the deep ones, it's watching something take over from the inside until nothing is left.

And yeah
>These groups are also no afraid to play identity politics cards to avoid close scrutiny.
Is one of the best parts about the Tcho-Tcho in the modern day is that they are an alien race which LOOKS like humans and because of how we treat anything that looks like humans, we assume they must be human.
It's not a race thing, it's a species thing.

>> No.78076755

>>78070342
Call of Cthulhu has probably the best chase system but requires setup.

>> No.78076806
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78076806

>>78069590
You.... do recall that tomorrow the people are going to come to that cabin and check it out right?
So those bullet holes? The explosion, the fire? All of that needs to be dealt with or they will just see it and notice and BOOM BOOM BOOM cops.
Especially if they notice or smell smoke coming from the septic tank.
PLUS the Marlene thing is just going to keep moving and posses something nearby even if they dealt with it FOR NOW.

Our GM when we ran it had us digging the slugs out of walls from a PC's service pistol so it couldn't be tracked back to them while we were able to pass off the rounds from the borrowed police shotgun as buckshot from hunters and the dent in the car as us hitting a deer on the way back, replacing the buckshot in the box with some from a store and warming up deer blood I got in a bottle and spraying it all over the hood of the car.

My character never fired and shot and that was intentional.

>>78071004
Then run Laundy Files you fucking wimp ass stupid ignorant fuckingbitch.

>> No.78076824
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78076824

Seriously jesus fucking christ
ERMAGERD I WANT AGENTS V CTHULHU

IT
EXISTS ALREADY
FUCK YOU DONT HAVE TO RUN MODULES THE SYSTEM WORKS FINE STOP BITCHING

>> No.78076952

>>78076806
>You.... do recall that tomorrow the people are going to come to that cabin and check it out right?
They took the documentation about his cabin with him in both games.


>So those bullet holes? The explosion, the fire? All of that needs to be dealt with or they will just see it and notice and BOOM BOOM BOOM cops.
Fire petered out inside the septic tank, and you've got a case for the bullets in it but like it's not much they can do about it.

>PLUS the Marlene thing is just going to keep moving and posses something nearby even if they dealt with it FOR NOW.
There was nothing for it to possess within the enumerated distance. Spirit is donezo. I even had a plan where if it was extremely wounded, it would run to the local gas station/quicki-mart to get another body.

That didn't happen on the fact they got gotted. all the buckshell was in marlene in the second game.

Other than the holes in the septic tank, they were pretty thorough.

>> No.78077340
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78077340

>>78019976
Look, man, all I'm saying is if you aggressively shit yourself, the wendigo won't find you nearly as appetizing.
If you go into the woods, you need to embrace Nurgle.

>> No.78077545

>>78077340
nature scary

>> No.78078199

Group wants to run a zombie game. Any idea on how to make zombies interesting?

>> No.78078245

>>78078199
the plot twist is that instead of being a fungus or virus or what have you its straight up magic, a secret hermetic coven tapped into the Deep Realms and all the zombies are actually possessed by otherdimensional demons.

>> No.78078428

>>78078199
They repeat the things they used to do when they were alive, to a point. I'm thinking Day of the Dead and I am a hero type zombies. They can shoot guns but may not remember how to reload, in the morning they go to work and mimic flipping burgers or typing at a keyboard, and they try to stay under a roof when it's raining.

>> No.78078431

>>78076824
>Laundry Files
Ah, a man of taste is amongst us.

>>78077340
Wendigo would probably prefer that actually. They eat raw human flesh after all, and most media shows them as not really caring if it's gone rotten or not.

>> No.78078483

>>78078199
>>78078245
This is the plot of Dead Reign: outerdimensional old one (a god), which was mistaken for a passing asteroid/comet, sucks the life energies out of 50% of the planet Earth. Half the human population just drops dead, obviously this leads to additional deaths, and on the third day (or sooner, as desired) the hallow husks rise and feast on the outnumbered humans for their humanity.

Dark Souls before Dark Souls, but with guns and in the 80s-90s.

Point is, magic zombies is the way to go.

>> No.78078523

>>78077340
You'd need to spread it across yourself as this particular creature only needs your heart, everything else is just the appetizer.

>> No.78078934
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78078934

>>78060398
The Epistle makes pretty clear what the HL2 games only implied - that the Resistance, and the overall fight to reclaim Earth and our own dimension is pretty much just a bid to close our planet off and hope we're too much of a bad investment at this point to bother the Combine again. As far as anyone in the games knows, Earth was a stopping point onto other dimensions of boundlessly more worth than our own, and probably at much less expense and effort for the Combine. From what I remember, they dredged our oceans and took a good portion of our population as brainwashed synths, leaving a small standing army behind to watch over the last stages of planet-death before getting shunted through to parts unknown themselves or left to perish as a forgotten population.
If Earth continues to survive after the portal's closure, it's probably only because the equivalent of some Combine intern mistakenly files our entire universe under 'already exhausted', or a 0 comes up where a 1 ought to.

>> No.78079446

>>78078934
The thing with the Combine is, despite how gigantically powerful they are, they have a water shortage. Per the devs water is the #1 reason they invaded because they don't have enough of it to supply their entire empire. Losing access to Earth wouldn't hurt them directly, but it'd probably cause heavy unrest on their other worlds.

>> No.78079452

>>78078483
Makes me think of Night of the Comet.

>> No.78080380
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78080380

>>78079452

>> No.78080386
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78080386

>>78078483
This is what I like about I Am a Hero.

Without going too far into spoilers, it really hammers home the point that zombies as they are in movies/fiction, i.e. everlasting revenants driven by nothing but sheer will to eat, couldn't realistically be caused by anything other than something truly otherworldly. No earthly virus, no chemical spill, no radiation.
Best zombies are the ones that are simply the prelude to worse shit.

>> No.78080925

>>78080386
Yeah, I Am A Hero works because otherworldly eldritch aliens or demons is basically the only way to do the standard zombie archetype justice.

>> No.78081094

>>78078199
Unironically steal from Resident Evil and Left 4 Dead. Putting together a good variety of creatures and variant zombies will keep things scary, and having action scenes where "kill all the enemies" is neither desirable nor practical. Challenge them to split their forces: find keys, start and protect machines, ascend a building or cross a bridge while the numberless dead arrive in escalating waves.
If your battles are 1d6 identical meat sacks wandering towards the players, you're doing it wrong or lulling them into a false sense of security.

>> No.78081932

>>78080925
Well that and the zombies themselves are genuinely terrifying. IAaH was the first zombie work that made me scared of them since I binged all of Dead Rising's cutscenes on YouTube in 2006. There's a kind of dynamism to the panel work in the comic that makes them seem like bullets. Like every shot is a screenshot taken out of a whirlwind. Much more refreshing than just 'running zombies'.

>>78078199
Pander to the prepper in your players. Hand craft a stronghold or safehouse and make them protect it across a series of days of intensifying danger. Speak to that part of them that looks at their apartment and says, 'I would prop that against that door, then use this to barricade this section, and having that window there would allow me to climb out when I need to make a supply run.' Detail is key in a zombie RPG.

>> No.78082092

>>78067776
There's like five people here that just obsessively browse and screech like retards anytime race is brought up, it's not board culture

>> No.78082400
File: 2.51 MB, 994x3350, remina sees you.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78082400

>> No.78082844

>>78076722
No I definitely get that and I do not personally think that they are racist, but you gotta admit that throughout history basically any time a genocide has been attempted to be morally justified the excuse is often "They are not actually human" but in this case it is actually quantifiably true. It just feels weird because like in Reverberations for example the tcho-tcho are not much unlike any other ethnic group albeit one with a disturbing cultural heritage. They have their own little subsection of china town or whatever with their own well known grocer and other central community figures.

I generally avoid using them because I feel like at least two of my players would not be completely comfortable with the idea that genociding this human-seeming population is ultimately the correct course of action

>> No.78082921

Am I completely crazy or is Science (Mathmatics) a trap skill in Delta Green? I have read a couple modules now and it seems like having it at around 50 makes you vulnerable to a bunch of insane instant kill/sanity loss traps while being rarely if ever useful to actually solve anything or gain any actionable clues. Being able to zero-sum yourself out of fucking existence at the green box in Lover in Ice and becoming a Mi-Go slave after solving their equation enough times to drop to 2 POW off the top of my dome but I know for a fact there are others. Math is too fucking dangerous.

>> No.78083159

>>78082921
That second Mi-Go one is in Extremophilia forgot to mention

>> No.78084907

Anyone got a .pdf of the Alien RPG?

>> No.78086762

>>78082400
Poor bastards.

>> No.78087393
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>>78082921
There's more to Delta Green than modules.
It's up to the GM how they get to use it or how often.

>> No.78087450
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78087450

>>78082844
I get that.
I've had players like that too. One of my players who ended up getting kicked out of the group for not making session seemed to have trouble grasping the fact that very, very little in a Cthulhu game is "good" or not hostile to humanity.

I think my favorite example of reflecting this to him was when he was inside a police station watching a Silent Hill Straightjacket/Lying figure ouside the glass, it's mouth rasping and gasping. He started going "Yes? Yes? What are you trying to say?" and trying to listen to it. It reared back and started spewing acid onto the glass.

>> No.78087509

Does anyone have the picture of the black pillars with white faces poking out from them?

>> No.78088492
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78088492

>> No.78090892

>>78082921
>or is Science (Mathmatics) a trap skill in Delta Green?
There is literally an entire scenario proving this is the case.

>>78083159
Interesting.

>> No.78090898

>>78088492
based taste

>> No.78092241
File: 2.30 MB, 820x461, 1614054675655.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78092241

>The real horror was the friends we lost along the way

>> No.78092953
File: 435 KB, 915x1280, EwPik0TWQAA5BGh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
78092953

>Sad Satan 31: The Smell Of 4 Pairs Of Epilepsy I Grew Up a Normal Dog And I Used It When I Was Losing More Octopus

>> No.78092975

>>78082921
That sounds incredibly retarded. Not you, but the modules.

>> No.78093621

>>78039440
It could but you run the risk of it becoming a meme-athon since that kind of setting is usually used for comedy (Cabin in the Woods, Control, SCP itself). And that's without getting into the inevitable powerlevel faggotry of trying to get different monsters/cursed items to take each other down. Really depends on how much your players buy into it, but that goes for all horror games anyway.

>> No.78094467

>>78088492
captures the atmosphere of a bleak and creepy dungeon crawl perfectly

>> No.78094567

>>78084907
mega nz /folder/hc4AiJqA#JWhyH0KovW-2Lp0Lfdx4qw

>> No.78095077

>>78040144
Wait, the show actually has that scene where Butcher kills a female midget with an explosive dildo?

>> No.78095169

>>78040373
The only Crossed story I've read was the one with the comic store rapists after I was told it was a filibuster against the kind of people who don't like Crossed. Whole thing was just petty revenge fantasies over lost Internet arguments. That pretty much cemented my view of the series.

>> No.78096295

>>78040972
I bit late to the punch but The Boys isn't even a critique of superheroes. It's supposed to be a critique of Hollywood and the MIC, but it completely fails at that because he takes the excesses past the point of absurdity and completely undercuts his narrative repeatedly. It's also pretty obvious that he didn't finish basic worldbuilding before he started writing the plot, to the point that the first 1/3 of the book doesn't really mesh with the rest of it. Where it really shines, however, is the end when it reveals a very thorough deconstruction of Ennis' preferred character archetype for his protagonists.

>> No.78096845

>>78095169
then you missed anything good about it

>> No.78096901

>>78088492
Any good system/hacks that emulate this game? Even some modules or supplements would be cool.

>> No.78096978
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>>78082921
>if you're a retard how can the gods curse you if you can't even understand the extent of their curse in the first place
feels good being a brainlet, eldritch horrors btfo

>> No.78097186

>>78096295
>a very thorough deconstruction of Ennis' preferred character archetype for his protagonists.
how so? He's just the typical type, but crazier isn't he?

>> No.78097189

>>78020105
>too bleak
depends on the nature of the story, I think there's value in ultimately snuffing the protagonists out if some other meaning was derived from it other than their victory. Personally I like really bleak zombie stories, I don't like to hear about how people rebuilt society I want zombies that make it hard.

>> No.78097587

>>78092953
the fuck is that title, but the girl seems cute

>> No.78097847

>>78087393
>There's more to Delta Green than modules.
Ya ya, nigga, keep telling yourself that. Anon is making an objective observation on DG lore, pointing out that numbers/math based cognitive hazards are quite common (or at least seem so).

>> No.78097986

>>78096978
Beyond the Supernatural has a Retard class that runs on the principal that children are more sensitive to the paranormal, therefore a perpetual manchild is the most powerful anti-supernatural weapon in your party.

>> No.78098041

>>78097986
imagine the world being saved by r9k lmao

>> No.78098320

I know there's a WOD thread going, but as anons supposedly versed in a broader set of games, are the Social Maneuvering rules in Chronicles well-made? I'm intrigued by the idea of social not just being reduced to a single roll, and actually being fleshed out as a whole system of rules.

>> No.78098342
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>>78096978

>> No.78098481

>>78098320
Social maneuvering has LOTS of expansions in cofd, lots of rules that work with them.

>> No.78098500

>>78098481
You mean expansions in each of the template books? So far I've just looked at the core book (Chronicles) but was meaning to read through Geist afterwards.

>> No.78098568

>>78098500
Yeah. Its to variable degrees. For example, most the Declarations in Mummy (think Clan) have different social maneuvering enhancements.

>> No.78098591

>>78098568
Cool, thanks. I'll have a look. I'm assuming Geist will have different elements to communing with ghosts and such.

>> No.78099691

>>78098591
Yes. Geist has a ton of mechanics for dealing with various ghosts (or the odd Kerberoi if you get their attention). In general, most Chronicles gamelines have good social resolution mechanics.

>> No.78099777

>>78097186
More that the typical type is just a gregarious psychopath. Directly compared to the rest of the heroes Butcher is only slightly less evil than Black Noir. When you actually take a step back from the narrative of the book and look at things from an outside perspective you realize that the overwhelmingly vast majority of capes are at worst hedonistic shitbags while the Boys are a government murder squad.

>> No.78101003
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>> No.78102095

>>78092953
The Japanese text feels it went through Google Translate. I guess it was done by a non native illustrator, with no real intent besides the aesthetics.

>> No.78103471

>>78096978
Based retard destroys the MiGo by utterly subverting all of their expectations of human behaviour. The man can not and will not be stopped

>>78092975
I guess I sort of see it, in a way. Lovers in the Ice is definitely not an entry level module and by the time you get their your players should have some understanding that fucking with anomalous things that are not necessary for the mission is dangerous and irresponsible but its still a bit much.

>>78087393
Okay yes I understand this but you can not deny that mathematical understanding is presented as mostly dangerous and rarely useful.

>> No.78105181
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>>78097587
>>78102095
Codex Noirmatic is very, very bizarre.

>> No.78105667

>>78095077
They crammed a bomb up a supers ass already.
>>78087450
That actually sounds like a vaguely human action. I'd be interested to see where they were going with it.

>> No.78106478
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>> No.78106548

>>78096978
This is why Low INT in Call of Cthulhu is beneficial. You can't even roll for a bout of insanity if you are retarded. You just get fewer skill points upfront.

I want to see if anyone made stats for a little person yet.

>>78097986
>Beyond the Supernatural has a Retard class
based

>>78097847
>Ya ya, nigga, keep telling yourself that.
I will. They built the setting from the ground up to be fuel for player use.
They tell you directly to ignore the canon and that you don't need to read it since it's just there for scenario fuel.

>> No.78108096

>>78082921
>>78096978
This is pretty much the entirety of Last Equation. Players are implored to not have Agents with Science (Mathematics) or similar backgrounds because the Laqueus Cipher is at its dangerous when sufficiently intelligent or skilled people are present: it's an extradimensional honeytrap that disguises itself as an esoteric math equation and destroys people's minds with infinite knowledge and awareness when they solve the cipher in order to turn them into murderous puppets. But so long as you lack Science (Mathematics) it can't affect you beyond some mild sanity effects and using its thralls to gank you.

>> No.78108332
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78108332

I’ve been out of the horror culture loop for years. Been on a kick to get back in and I’m confused. When did SCP turn into this timblr self-insert hero cutesy shit? I wanted to check it out since it was my go-to back in the day and I’m finding way more of pic related than actual horror tones weird lit kind of stuff.

>> No.78108787

>>78108332
any completely open-source writing project is doomed to this kind of fate once it reaches a critical mass of popularity. The nice thing about the SCP project is that you can easily just focus on the first few thousand and discard the rest. The entirety of the SCP catalogue really can not exist in the same "universe" or timeline anyways so its not a big deal really imo. Some of the stories are good as well but you really run the risk of falling into the "epic OC keter class threat that the foundation has no choice but to work alongside" trap the more you read, not to mention the entries that seemingly exist for no reason other than to be as keter as possible holy shit dude its so evil and edgy for real

>> No.78108800
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>>78108332
>When did SCP turn into this timblr self-insert hero cutesy shit?
Well for starters, that's not an actual part of the site (which you'd know if you've ever been on it instead of trying to start an inflammatory shitposting spree). And as for your question: it's been that way since 2008, it literally started with what 4chan would call "wacky so random" shit which is why that's known as the 'lolfoundation' era. So well over 13 years ago. It's also only slightly younger than Tumblr (the first SCP was even posted in the year Tumblr was made) and was around before Tumblr became notorious on here for people this site doesn't like so that isn't any argument against it either.

It's really odd why you're asking something like this without even really knowing the history of the thing you're bringing up. SCP hasn't been purely horror from the very beginning. It's assorted weird fiction, in much the same vein as Junji Ito. It can be comedy, horrific, generally surreal, depressing or anything inbetween.

>> No.78108951

>>78108787
This is a massive generalization and misunderstanding of what Keters are and the later entries of SCP. Keter isn't a powerlevel. 4999 is Keter, and it's only considered as such because it's uncontainable. 4000 is Keter and that's because the entities therein are opposed to the Foundation and can't be effectively contained. Same for countless others. It's a measurement of the difficulty of containment.

And honestly? The complaints about SCP are kinda retarded given that most people making them know nothing about it/and or enjoy shit that's probably just as subject to the same criticisms, if not moreso. We just spent practically an entire thread ranting about Crossed which is just the vision of one guy and there's never a day that goes by when Detwiler doesn't offend someone here into frothing insanity just by existing. It gets dull when literally nothing new happens when we have this conversation.

>> No.78108987

>>78108951
I fully realize this is not what Keter is supposed to mean but it doesn't stop people from using it this way. I personally think most of the issues with the SCP Wiki as a whole are overblown and there is a lot of good there, but you can not deny there is a ton of dogshit especially in the short stories.

>> No.78109143

>>78108987
There's bad stuff yes, but there's bad stuff literally everywhere you go. Even here, ESPECIALLY here. In SCP's case, it's a site with literally thousands upon thousands of articles and multiple branching sites. You can choose what you want to read and just ignore what doesn't appeal to you. I mostly ignore Series I and a good chunk of early Series II because I think they're immensely low-quality for instance. Likewise, I can go through the random pages and find hundreds of entries that can give inspiration or just entertain me for hours on end.

It's very much a case of making your own fun. Which is something I think more people should take to heart when it comes to horror. Horror as a genre will always be full of stinkers, schlock or general mediocrity. But it's also full of all kinds of great shit that you can draw from or just enjoy as it is.

>> No.78109190

>>78109143
That is literally exactly what I said here
>>78108787

>> No.78110926
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>> No.78111787

>>78110926
Mmmm, flesh.

>> No.78113883
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>> No.78114183

>>78105181
Is it just illustrations?

>> No.78115279

>>78108332
Site got taken over by a literal SJW mod team.

>>78097847
"You go crazy if you know math" is going a little too far. I know some modules want to pain this image of humans as super fragile pitifully weak and hopeless losers, but it gets real old real fast and shit like that is just excessive.

>> No.78115685

>>78035360
I don’t care much for his longer form stuff, but King’s short stories (and even some of the Bachman stuff) were pretty entertaining.

Not exactly horror but I’m really fond of The Running Man. I liked the movie as a kid, but the book is much different and much, much better.

>> No.78116812

>>78108800
t. triggered fanfic writer

>> No.78116862

Sincerely fuck you guys for making me reread Crossed. Also fuck me for going through with it despite knowing how shit i'd feel after reading it. I haven't had a bout of psychosis this intense for atleast a year.
>Inb4 why do you read horror if you're a mentally fragile pussy
Because i'm evidently also incapable of resisting impulses. Atleast i should be fine tomorrow.
Anyway, i watched Little Nightmares II in an attempt to cleanse my palette, and i'm not entirely sure how i ought to interpret the overall lore. Mono is the Tall Man, but was he the same instance as the one he destroyed or did the broadcast tower turn him in order to replace it? Six also doesn't demonstrate any of her later ravenous hunger, which begs the question where it came from. I'm guessing that whatever reality they live in consists of several separate "dimensions" where different rules apply. The city seemed to have centered around the notion of "control", while the Maw was based on "consumption". Both had entities that served as a sort of conceptual core (the broadcasting tower and the masked lady, respectively), whose powers could be usurped by killing them. I'm thinking that Little Nightmares takes place in a kind of astral plane, where thoughts, emotions and concepts make up everything. The realms themselves are created by the things that they center around, based on some sort of trauma or unrealised desire. Souls that drift in the void are then pulled into these predatory constructs and consumed in order to perpetuate their existence and grow their power, which is how Mono and Six ended up there in the first place. These souls seem to come from dreaming children mostly, which would fit well with the title of the games. I also wonder what happens to those who are consumed. Are they merely harvested of some sort of spiritual vitality, or do they never wake up at all?

>> No.78116884

>>78116862
>mentally fragile
There's nothing mentally fragile about hating Crossed. It's one of the worst comics ever written by one of the most overrated and least talented comic writers in the industry.

>> No.78117047

>>78116884
Crossed isn't just bad. It's one of very few fictional works that makes me feel genuinely disgusted. Reading it briefly makes the world seem dirty and impure, and i just feel awful afterward.

>> No.78117200

>>78117047
It's basically misery guro.

>> No.78117951

>>78116884
>>78117047
I've been reading Crossed for the first time after browsing this thread and I'm genuinely enjoying it, though I understand why others wouldn't, it's definitely the edgiest misery porn I've ever read. Also to be fair I'm a cunt and I can't enjoy a story if it isn't a least a bit hopeless.

>> No.78118396
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>>78114183
No, he actually has a greater setting behind it and two webcomics (with more + bestiary books to be announced): Terra Hypnagogica and Frances the Dreamer: Reisebilder. The first you can read on Tapas in full english but the latter was hosted on a dead website and was never fully translated before then.

The main unifying force between all his works is that the demons (which constitute the majority of his ecosystem apparently) all seem to serve under something called Holy Empire Viralborgia, which is in turn named after the thing they worship, Viralborgia.

>>78116862
Nobody will shame you for disliking Crossed. It's just the usual from Ennis: awful misery porn.

>> No.78119167

>>78115685
I remember being floored by the ending, its so fucking good. I really liked all the Bachman books, The Running man and Roadwork most of all. the Long Walk is pretty good but the school shooter one is just okay.

>> No.78120103
File: 1.18 MB, 1920x2969, It_Broke_me.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>78118396
Can we get links?

>>78116862
Nobody says it wasn't an extremely harrowing or difficult experience.
I hope you finished it at least so you could get something out of it.
Pic related is what broke me and shit like that, and moments like that are why I still defend Crossed even though I completely understand everyone who hates it.

It takes really good writing to make something that hurts as much as the original Crossed miniseries does. Moments like this or the black guy saying "I don't want to live anymore" and you listen to what he says and it all makes total sense having followed this character and what he's been through... but it's not just there to be bleak or to kill him off.
Or Thomas' sacrifice... or many of the other genuinely amazing moments from the miniseries.

This is why I say it's what the Walking Dead wishes it was. It has the balls to go there and in the original series (but not much else) it has in places the writing to back it up.
If you're reading anything else you have nobody but yourself to blame. It's basically all we've said since the start.

it also serves a purpose that none of you seem to notice which is... it makes pointless edge in other comics more obvious and despicable.
Violence/gore excess in other comics becomes less palatable and clearer when something is just trying to be shocking and failing at it. Think of Gordon Jr's victim in The Black Mirror, or the two little girls that get beheaded in the prison in Walking Dead.
I see it and I think "they're trying to be Crossed". If you hate edge you have to value that.

>>78116884
>>78117200
>There's nothing mentally fragile about hating Crossed. It's one of the worst comics ever written by one of the most overrated and least talented comic writers in the industry.
That's Crossed:Psychopath which nobody with a brain defends.
There is far, far worse than Crossed in the industry.

There's also a spectrum of quality in Crossed works from worth it to irredeemable.

>> No.78120316
File: 7.45 MB, 1920x2969, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
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>>78117951
Thanks.

I hope you're reading the miniseries or Wish You were Here. There's a list of "Where to start" with crossed on the subreddit I might post here for the curious. Not all of it's good, but it's a decent list of stuff worth tango-ing with.

Pic related is another absolutely brilliant moment and I love the chick who ends up with the short stick. It's something I'm considering stealing for an eventual apocalyptic survival game I'd like to run.

It's also rare in that unlike a lot of similar stories, every major member of the group has some level of use, and even the douchebag characters get a fully fleshed out personality. There's also rare moments of beauty in there when they manage to get away, stuff like the arctic wolves later in the winter chapter. Even one off dick characters like Brett, there's a reason they stick with the group or are allowed to.

I do consider the original miniseries-arc a... remarkably humanist work despite its reputation. A big focus on the series is people and their value, even if it's understated. The party feels every depth and nobody who sticks around is entirely useless. The characters feel each death or loss and grieve when they have time to grieve. They never relish in killing anyone they don't have to, which is why when the Brett thing happens it's a big deal and forces the MC to stop and think.

Fuck, Crossed Dead Or Alive, which was written by Ellis himself is literally about a piece of shit "survival at all costs" edgelord type who tries to screw over the survivors he's with "out of survival" and suffers greatly for it.

In any nihilistic goreporn edgelord story that story probably wouldn't end that way, or have that moral.

I ran something semi-similar once in a dead island type setting with friends during a game of Ten Candles. The prompt for the Threat I got was "They eat each other".
The players managed to save a family by setting them on a boat before the final scene though, so that was good.

>> No.78120414

New thread. Move on when ready.
>>78120396
>>78120396
>>78120396

>> No.78120861

>>78120316
And it's ruined because they have to have one carrying a severed penis because HURR HURR EDGEE NOTZAMBIEZ "oi m8 im a gr8 wroiter ye offened yet m8? >:3"

Fuck Ennis so hard.

>> No.78120928

>>78120316
I'm the guy you responded to, I'm just following the chronological reading list and going through everything. Again I don't have any excuses for enjoying pointless miserable stories, even if it is sometimes frustrating when genuinely sympathetic characters get killed (and some of it so absurd in its grimderpness its even comical). I even liked Psychopath and I think crazy Amanda is a fun character. Some shit in Badlands is legitimately atrocious though, terrible art and story line, literally how the fuck these guys even managed to get published (boat captain arc and one where the art looked like wikihow instructions).

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