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[ERROR] No.78019519 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>Wizard schools


Wizard schools are like industrialization and mass production
>We can just teach a fuck ton of kids without any personal lessons
>quantity over quality
>Is probably a corporation or government funded
>Only have one process for success

>> No.78019655

I absolutely agree.

>> No.78019726

I agree. The mentor/disciple relationship makes the learning of magic more meaningful imo

>> No.78020088

Is wizardry an art/craft? Then do apprenticeship.

Is wizardry a field of research? Then do academies.

Funnily enough, in Ars Magica wizardry is certainly a field of research, but no one wants to make a wizard school.

>> No.78020150

>in Ars Magica wizardry is certainly a field of research, but no one wants to make a wizard school.
Makes sense, if you can shit on the no-magic plebeians why would you want to start a magic school?

>> No.78020160

This one had both. Theoretical classes and then apprenticeships once they are ready to specialize; comfiest part of the book.

>> No.78020226

Only a small amount of kids can get in on the magic game, and wizards are eager to snap them up as apprentices.

>> No.78020243

You realize its a school because its a place of research right?
Apprenticeship implies a trade, you're 'learning the ropes' by watching and doing what more experienced people do until you're ready to do the same thing they're doing.

Schools are places of learning yes, but they're also places of research and experimentation.

>> No.78020254

Ah, I was thinking about the personal reasons. I like magic to be a very difficult art, not some chosen one born bullshit.

>> No.78020259

too bad everything else and the second book were lukewarm at best or reading a fa/tg/uy's magical realm fanfiction at worst

>> No.78020262

Apprenticeships are also more intimate. You can expect to learn shit outside your curriculum because you're closer to your mentor. Possibly more advanced/dangerous shit.Especially if they're dark wizards

"You taught a kid THAT..?! Before graduation!? Demon contracting isn't a kid's game, you mad cow!"
"Fuck the Board, you're all spineless prudes who would rather wait ten years for real, rich power"

>> No.78020272

You just explained what a school is, did you even read what I posted?

>> No.78020287

>did you even read what I posted?

>> No.78020327


>> No.78020409

>it's another snorefest simping chapter
Tell me about it. Just why.

>> No.78020421

The mentorship is also a really important relationship for the Mage, and can cement their personality, approach to Magic, or what they're opposed to.

It can also provide an important NPC, a contact, or various story seeds.

Mentorships are so, so much more useful than boring fucking schooling.

>> No.78020459

People get angry when a teacher fucks a student, a mentor and apprentice it’s almost compulsory

>> No.78020608


>> No.78020749

You’re right, of course.

>> No.78021155

Reminder that the girl he’s after isn’t even that attractive, he just has rose tinted glasses and she’s literally a drug addict whore.

>> No.78021930

The last homebrew I did tackled this very handily.

>Wizard Apprenticeship.
Done between the true scholarly Wizards, those genius, one in a billion minds that can really just GET magic and understand it to the point that they're blazing the trail for everyone else. When they notice or have someone with potential brought to their attention, the apprenticeship becomes a dual mentoring and constant testing situation.

>Academies and Colleges.
State sponsored or rarely independent institutions created with the help of the few real Wizards to hand down and teach a very streamlined, goal and result focused style of magic. Each one trains a much more focused type of magic, and becomes the source of things like:
>Battle-mages that use codified sets of conjured magical equipment
>Mid-tier empaths that work as peacekeeper and courtesans, both for good and ill
>Healers that moonlight as undead-hunters
>Magi that bind with 2-3 spirits from beyond to use their unique powers

The finding and training of a real Wizard is a big thing, the equivalent of another Einstein or Tesla being brought up and it's started to become a cultural expectation that to really be a Wizard, you have to end up founding one of the above institutions to support your kingdom/state or deal with a specific issue plaguing the world.

>> No.78021999

That's where the fun lies.
Wizard schools are basically a bunch of high tier scholar wankers creating mediocre wizards who are pretty much mathematicians.
Apprenticeships are where real wizards are made, not just pure theory and logic but intuition.

>> No.78022032

She's the Jenny to the Forrest of this book. I even forgot the name because it's been so long without the fucking sequel

>> No.78023483

well, people only get mad when a male wizard fucks his aprentices, when female wizards act like whores torwards their students no one bats a fucking eye
this double standarts fucking infuriate me
i should be able to sodomise my male students to my liking

>> No.78023531

>Wizard schools
>not learning magic by yourself from scrap trougth painstaking effort

>> No.78023585

Apprenticeships are better because they make magic something a bit more mysterious, that can only be passed from man to man. Schools seem sanitized and can make it seem too normalized for my tastes

>> No.78023903

Denna. Which has meaning because her smile is always described as white and shining strangely bright, which is the exact symptom of people in the world who partake of a drug called denner, which makes your teeth unnaturally white as a result of it. And she is perpetually with or banging random men who give her things in exchange for her.

She's literally a fantasy-crack whore and the main character is too obsessed to notice it, meanwhile his female classmate is infuriatingly beautiful, long dark hair, is clearly into him, always pleasant, a master smith, and available with a huge rack.

He's never going to finish the series, so I'm just annoyed that I wasted my time reading the first two books now.

>> No.78024541

kids with potential to be great get snatched (sometimes literally) by wizards for aprenticeship
kids that go to wizard schools are rich shitheads that only got there trougth money

>> No.78024606

>schools are like industrialization and mass production

I should probably finish that Master of teaching anyway.

>> No.78024637

What if the wizard who apprentices you isn't actually a wizard but a Lich who's bored and wanted to pass on his knowledge?

>> No.78024732

Yep, completely true. I still don't understand how apprenticeships isn't more common in media.

>> No.78024880

Wizard schools > Apprenticeships

Any society that invests in wizard academies will consistently churn out a larger quantity and higher quality of wizards.

>> No.78025047

>Implying a medieval feudal setting would invest in schooling.

>> No.78025168

higher quantity yes, but quality, hell no

>> No.78025605

more consistent at best

>> No.78027144

What does that make eldritch bargaining?

>> No.78027201

Wizards in DnD ARE industrialized spell cucks. They don't even actually learn spells, they just rent spell software every long rest and have that knowledge forcibly revoked after they cast their spells.

>> No.78027246

The magical equivalent of hiring someone to write your thesis paper for you.

>> No.78027571

are we talking about setting or mechanics here?
Don't know much about dnd

>> No.78027709


Most of the major European Universities started out as Monastic/Cathedral Schools that trained and taught monks, China had schools to train Scholars, Aristocrats and Court Officials around 1000 BCE, and the Roman Republic and later Empire had a tiered schooling system.

While rural lands might not have schools, major centers of civilization could easily have schools.

>> No.78027719

>the equivalent of another Einstein or Tesla being brought up
You mean two motherfuckers who underwent formalized schooling, like pretty much every other smart guy? Potential has to be demonstrated, and academies are a good way to do that. It'd make more sense to do it like the Sith, where students at the school are picked up and put into apprenticeships depending on how good they are.

>> No.78027731

I prefer apprenticeships, it makes more sense to keep knowledge and power restricted to a small circle of people.
If you want something like magic schools, do something like:
- Secret Cult / Sect / Order, training acolytes to pursue specific purposes : maintaining a specific magic lineage, researching stuff, obtain more power, etc.
- Magic School / College / Academy, employed under the service of a country/ empire/ city state / small fief / lord : funding and resources for raising wizards in exchange for serving under someone's authority (to maintain order, in case of war, or for doing dirty work).
-Errant Wizard: Lonely practitioners who obtained knowledge and tools independently, like stumbling upon the inheritance of a dead wizard, from their family or ancestors (like an heirloom) or in some bizarre way.

>> No.78027755

The medieval universities were far from what a "magic school" would be.
First of all they had a huge price, and also were not as focused in science: they were mainly history politics and philosophy for the noblemen.
The classes were not given in a building: a university was a collection of people, and classes were given individually in homes, or publicly in churches. No such thing as the magic school you are imagining.

>> No.78027806

Both. Every single spell is copyrighted by some wizarding fuck (Bigby's Mage Hand, Leomund's Tiny Hut, etc) and you essentially have to pay them to rent the spell for one casting and the moment you cast it you forget it until you get a chance to slot it into your spell book and pay to rent it again.

>> No.78027829

Wow, if that's the lore behind it it's fucking shit.
Might as well play warlock then, it's the same but cooler.

>> No.78027875

Natural Philosophy, Astrology and Mathematics were still topics those schools would teach. Most classrooms might have been part of teacher's homes, amphitheaters or rooms within a cathedral, monastery, church or temple but they also did exist as their own individual buildings and complexes.

It is not. That was just some bullshit they came up with because they didn't know about the origins of Vancian magic.

>> No.78028212

The origins is you're a fucking spell wagie that is dommed by his own fucking book.

>> No.78028267

>Bard college
Most soul
Imagine going to college to learn magic but also going to parities, have keggers at your frat house, running from campus security, panty raids on the sorority houses, tping the deans office, giving wegies to those nerds at their wizard universities, the freshman 15 where you gotta bang 15 freshmen chicks in one night, and finally college rock.
Ah those were the days at Bard university. Go Dire wolves!

>> No.78028372

Too bad Bards have more of an identity crisis than a transsexual Rachel Dolezal creating a fursona and are mechanically a hot garbage fire mess.

>> No.78028373

You'll go tell reddit about your nutty natty d20 next.

>> No.78028388


>> No.78029343

>Rachel Dolezal
>You'll go tell reddit about your nutty natty d20 next.

>> No.78029400

Doesn't seem like a really lich-thing to do, undead megalomaniacs aren't big on patient instruction/nurturing rivals to their power/putting the immortality they committed true atrocities for at risk by allowing a mortal to get to know them.

>> No.78029514

I actually like to have both in a setting just to highlight the dichotomy. Like everyone agrees that apprenticeships are better but there's simply not enough master wizards around to train all the candidates so most end up dumped into schools.

>> No.78029589

Very true also it makes magic more rare because in order to learn magic you jeed to find a wise magician to teach you.

>> No.78029750

i use both for my settings.
> there is a council that interfere in political , economical and magical affair in all kingdoms.
>wizards can do whatever they want with magic,exempt interfere with non-wizard business.
> the council permit wizards to create guilds so that they can have the company of other wizards.
> guilds can offer magic for non-wizard guilds and business for a high price.
> being a wizard is actually pretty good , great pay, well respected in the intellectual circles and can experience pleasures beyond any king could.
> many nobles and rich man pay guilds to teach magic to their heir , but magic demands more than just some lessons.
> great wizards are know to take appendices that they see to have great potential, usually 1-3 at the same time.

>> No.78029782

Most fantasy settings that have enough wizards running around to warrant a "school" of them aren't medieval or feudal in the slightest beyond "there are lots of people with armor and swords" running around and maybe a castle of three.

>> No.78029920

>People with practical knowledge of the wilderness, travel, and skill with a weapon and side-arm who happen to also be avid students of the magical forces and curious to tap into the secrets that can't be found in books

Wizards are a compartmentalization that reduce a character to "magic guy" which becomes their one note, and the mechanical limitations that being "the magic guy" class prevent them from having any effectiveness with weaponry since they aren't "the weapons guy," when realistically, someone who knows they're getting into danger would have as many fall back options as possible, especially in a world full of monsters and bandits, and especially when running out of "magic juice" is a possibility.
>"I copy that spell into my spell book"
>"look at how many spells I can get"
>"I can still cast, I have a lot of spell slots"
>quantity over quality
>"Spirit of adventure? What's that? I just want more spells or more gold to scribe my spells into my book."
>"A puzzle? Yawn. Let me know if you guys find any scrolls or gems."
>only have one note and process for doing anything

>> No.78029930

wizards are the chads of my setting
> wizard parties are know for having drugs, succubus , tentacles and magic battles.
> there is a tradition in many guilds between apprentices to mock mercenaries , by pay them to move heavy rocks. only to cast a enchant strength on themselves lift the rocks with a arm and call the mercenaries bunch of weak faggots.
> they also enjoy making powerful and beautiful clothes and weapons only to show nobles who´s boss (big part of godly magic items were created to impress a non-wizard crush).

>> No.78030370

The two things are not mutually exclusive.
A real potential Wizard will be spotted in the institutions and then taken out for an apprenticeship.

Wizard Academy is the equivalent of going to high school and then right into the workforce. Apprenticeships are getting your full doctorate when there's only a handful of seats available for the whole world each year.

>> No.78030916

As much as I hate wizards, you can create some comfy narratives with a benevolent guide traveling with a young apprentice, teaching them things about the world and magic through practical experience.

>> No.78031975

Wizards have schools, sorcerers have apprenticeships. Stop being a faggot.

>> No.78032062

agreed. 10 times over.
I think best case
>wizard clubs where once every 3 years wizards together come up with a way to test their apprentices
>its a dick measuring contest
>bets are made on apprentice survival, wins etc..
>wizards secretly try to cheat, sabotage, twist rules
>this is accepted under grognard pretense of
>"If you want to be a real wizard like us, you have to expect the unexpected"
in that particular picture, it makes her dead as she apparently really fucked up her magic circle, given that demon found a way to extend a claw past it mid conversation.

She is about to get gruesomely raped with soul extraction mid coitus.

>> No.78032078

>learn music at college
>official classes for music
eww.... times a thousand

>> No.78032211

>not being a self-educated wizard
Have fun being diddled by your teachers

>> No.78032242

Bard "colleges" are informal affairs, as in a guild or a local community, or a roving band of trobadours who teach those with the knack for informal magic how to channel it through their emotional connection. A literal modern college for fucking bards is the most soulless thing I have ever heard.

>> No.78032607

i love understanding overly specifical jokes

>> No.78032747

Sounds like you never had fun at college.

>> No.78032825

I had. I also had fun at the nightclub, the theme park and the shooting range. "Having fun" = "Being a bard" is such immense imbecilic faggotry it's not even worth mentioning, you are literally too stupid to interact in any way other than insults.

>> No.78032856

Oh he mad. He mad

>> No.78033040

Last free (You). Spend it well along with your retard allowance.

>> No.78033050

He mad! He mad! He got mad that he's wrong about his statement!

>> No.78033227

Wizards are overrated, why would I be an apprentice of a weird old borderline homeless man, if I could lead a comfy life in the woods with nice witch lady? Or maybe look for an apprenticeship in an underground fortress run by a dungeon mistress?

>> No.78033332

It'd be more like learning to channel magic through music.
And there are already official classes for music

>> No.78033388

Nonsense, it's an illusory projection to throw her off guard, shock her into stepping out of her own circle. If she did then the demon'd be free to jump on her at will.

>> No.78033398

>borderline homeless
Why, that would depend on the wizard thought.

>> No.78033416

No matter how crazy the man is he's a better master than the bitter isolated old witch. At least you'll know where he stands.

>> No.78033547

>underground fortress run by a dungeon
Do you want adventurers knocking down your door? Cause that's how you get adventurers.

>> No.78033553

It would make more sense for sorcerers to have schools, retard.

>> No.78033606

I'd argue a medieval feudal setting WOULD invest in schooling for wizards. Wizards are living weapons-- having a lot of wizards would be a major advantage over the enemy, and it's fairly cheap as well.
Why not quality? You're essentially creating an environment that's ideal for nurturing a wizard and giving him ample competition, resources, and knowledge.
>shared knowledge among multiple wizards
>funded resources
>competing against everyone in magical talent, more talented wizards get special attention
>can focus on research instead of just survival
>have classmates to spar against
>access to more knowledge from different teachers, students, etc
>generations of knowledge and skills builds up, constantly evolving
>people actually want to succeed because their future and families are on the line

Meanwhile, (1) wizard of unknown quality taking a (1) kid with some magical talent. As opposed to having access to thousands of years of magical research that's constantly evolving to deal with the magic of rival institutes, rival nations, etc.

>> No.78033641

Sure, if you’re a high fantasy retard who thinks magic should just be a couple of silly words and gestures.

>> No.78033672

Am I the only one anoyed that the bone devil's hand is outside the circle?

>> No.78033709

A player in a campaign I took part in approached it from a different angle. He played a bard from some sort of college or university, but said bard is actually educated in literature and history. His role as a bard is really just him making those things useful in a party; he tags along because he wants to write the setting's equivalent of Marco Polo's journal, and he just likes helping people. Think of it like a geography expert applying his knowledge to make fictional maps as payment on the side. There's more depth to him than I'm describing him with, but that's most of the general concept.

>> No.78033763

That literally didn't address anything I said.

>> No.78033825

Yeah. For my bard he went with college of swords so it was like a knight academy where you are taught many forms of combat but you specialize in one. You were taught how to use magic but also know how to fight physically if magic is useless to you at the time

>> No.78033843

I had an idea for a game in whence the PC's are mid level wizards, the best in the local region who could be gotten on short notice and without any blood sacrifice.
The local power person, a baron most likely, wants to add magical auxiliaries to his standing army, so he has a deal.
He'll give the players an old crumbling castle by the sea, and some funding, if they can provide useful magical items, magic soldiers, or anything really.
And then the game consists of the players trying out various random shit as they please. Maybe one tries to design a tank using a decanter of endless water to power a waterwheel wagon, maybe one player starts experimenting with skeletons, maybe they begin to mass produce fireball wands, who knows.

>> No.78033909

The possibilities are truly endless. In a few months, your players are going to take over the entire continent.

>> No.78033950

We call them test subjects.

>> No.78034052

This is such blatant projection of the author's life that I just feel sorry for him now.

>> No.78034082

t. foreveralone

>> No.78034096

Sweetie, you should learn how to read before posting.

>> No.78034112

You're right, that's why surgeons in third world countries who learn via apprenticeships outclass those who go to university.

>> No.78034144

seethe harder

>> No.78034147

Nor even an equal comparison, how retarded can you be?

>> No.78034197

>nice witch lady
>dungeon mistress?
How much soi is in your diet?

>> No.78034218

Clearly not as much as you who think apprenticeships produce higher quality than colleges.

>> No.78034373

They do, that’s why you had to use third worlders as an example lol.

>> No.78034420

No, he had to use third wolders because they're the only ones who actually teach academical fields through internships you massive useless retard. Even surgeons who train under another surgeon have to go through medical school first, and even then the experienced surgeon is training dozens of little shits.

>> No.78034560

People have a really romantic view of apprenticeships for some reason.

I did an apprenticeship to become an automotive locksmith and another (kind of, it was was just a jr. dev position but I felt like an apprentice) to become a software engineer. The quality of education you get from University and self study are both far superior. The only benefits from apprenticeships are
1. (For software engineering) Hands on experience and learning the codebase. If you actually didn't cheat your way through Uni, this phase goes by pretty fast.
2. (For automotive locksmithing) Trade secrets. I'm not sure if this is the case with all trades, but the job itself is actually deceptively simple. Like, a retard with a little bit of training could do it, but you can hardly find any useful information or tools surrounding the job anywhere. The only way to get experience is to pay someone to teach you or work under someone for low ass wages. The whole method of passing down knowledge, retaining it, etc is borderline retarded. Nobody ever writes anything down and relies totally on experience.

You use apprenticeship to get practical experience, that's it. You need to have the understanding or you end up lacking flexibility. It's the fucking learn computer science vs "just do webdev bro, interviews are dumb why do I need to understand this xD i'll never use it on the job" argument

>> No.78034591

>She is about to get gruesomely raped with soul extraction mid coitus.
It's okay, the warlock union's got her back on this one.

>> No.78034607

To continue on number 2

If information on 2 was more widespread on the internet and records were kept, I'd argue that in the majority of cases, people could easily do it themselves. Now you don't need to pay 200 dollars if you've locked your keys in your car by accident or 500 if you lost your keys. (Or up to a thousand+ if you go to the dealership lmao, depending on the car)

>> No.78034691

>No, he had to use third wolders because they're the only ones who actually teach academical fields
Trade apprenticeships exists anon.

>> No.78034772

>academic fields

>> No.78034894

>Being a surgeon, a doctor, a researcher or a fucking wizard who learns formal magic is a trade
If you don't want to admit you're not a retard, just stop posting.

>> No.78037876

remember that if we base magic schools on the estereotipes of british boarding schools we would have a bunch of magic teenagers sodomizing their underclasmates

>> No.78038250


>> No.78038444

Nah, the only way you could believe this is if you've never experienced small class sizes with high quality teachers and/or were too lazy to forge one on one relationships with your profs outsode of lecture hours. That wouldn't describe you, would it, OP?

>> No.78038628

>This is such blatant projection of the author's life that I just feel sorry for him now.

>> No.78039162

why not both?

>> No.78039256

>tfw you will never be the years tart boy and get your ass pounded by every older wizard in the academy

>> No.78039332

>forge one on one relationships with your profs outsode of lecture hours
Sucking dicks for As is not a valid way of passing college.

>> No.78039783

The only time I've seen a wizard school go right was when it was an absolute horrific failure. The entire party were wizards and had formed a cabal, we knew about the academy and ended up going there for research at some point. The professors were enormous fucking assholes and doing all sorts of weird shit and the school was in mid-catastrophic failure when we found it. We ended up getting into a giant fight with them and getting run out of town, but the school failed and is now just a dungeon with insane wizards living in it.

The aftermath of their bullshit is that the people of the city and the nobility hate magic and will openly drive any wizard they can out of town, which includes the party. The party on the other hand made friends with orcs who think magic is cool because it gets them free food and zombies to boss around.

>> No.78040891

I have the distinct impression that a considerable ammount of people IRL would disagree on that one

>> No.78040946

Actually, a lot of people IRL feel that's pretty immoral for both parties. In fact, it's so ill perceived that there's laws about it.

>> No.78042303

Shit, really? Imagine if I decided joke about it because of that, by saying a lot of people have done it, implying that they were too stupid to get good grades by other means.

Man, what a wasted opportunity

>> No.78042490

Yeah, I know. You blew it.

>> No.78042556

Except this is absolutely invented by you and both male and female pedo scum get put in the slammer on the regular.

>> No.78042576

I like both; Wizard academies are MUCH rarer, but can churn out “reliable” spellcasters who aren’t particularly exceptional but will get a basic job done. Most won’t be exceptional but will serve their limited societal role just fine.

Apprenticeships however, can create the great masters.

>> No.78042597

Have we reached the point where people can't be arsed to read the thread anymore? Read you dumbs niggers. You ain't clever, everything you wanna say has been commented before.

>> No.78042599

looks like you dont keep tabs on the news

>> No.78042607

You know what’s kinda funny?
Rothfuss himself noted that NOBODY should ever have romantic views like his main character when a fan told him that she “wanted to have a romance like his”, because his views on romance were incredibly myopic and self-serving and rarely if ever took into account the reality of the situation or the other person’s circumstances.

A big reoccurring theme of the stories is the numerous ways that he was being a huge hypocrite on many subjects, which is probably why at the end of the stories he’s a sad man who failed at life.

>> No.78042609

Anything that brings fantasy closer to industrialisation or 'real world' borefests makes fantasy suck shit.

>> No.78043187

huh, the setting with the best magic system I've ever seen does the apprentice route (pic).

although the genre's groundbreaking work (Earthsea) features a school without any of the problems you mention. and also has one of the best ever magic systems.

>> No.78044431

I think it's more that a wizard university will churn out knowledgeable and well-rounded spellcasters who have some in-depth knowledge of their particular field of focus. A wizard apprentice in comparison will have a an incredibly deep pool of knowledge regarding magic, but an equally narrow focus as well. However, it wouldn't be uncommon for university wizards to heavily specialize and take on apprentices, nor would it be uncommon for an apprenticed wizard to attend an university to broaden his knowledge.

>> No.78044589

Watch Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell

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