[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.77732802 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade - less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 (embed)

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:

>Being called a FOE (False OSR Enthusiast)?
Report, hide, and ignore. Don't give those people (You)s.

Previous Thread: >>77701262

TQ: Levels 4-7 models don't come up much, are there some people have run to good effect?

>> No.77732838

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d8 (dice+1d8 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Our OC gets archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com
Tag your post with [OC] to help archive anon find it, please.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a magic item
>6. Make a race or class
>7. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>8. Roll 2d8 and combine.

>> No.77732853

What is the best setting or settings you have created and why is it the best?

Bonus for those with creativity or pdfs

>> No.77732869

Allow me to express my reaction to your attempts at gaslighting via a clip of a djinn/efreet duel

>> No.77732879

I'm planning one based on the reconquista. There is nothing written yet, but so far it's the only setting that I've ever had fun making.

>> No.77732931

My shitbrew, which I haven't worked on for a while, is basically Carcosa but with Greek and Roman gods and Lovecraftian daemons and more science fantasy

>> No.77732977

Funny. My current campaign is based on the conquest of the new world. The common backstory for most PCs is that they are veterans from the great war in the old world.

>> No.77733052

Nice. Discoveries and New World in general are very underrated, shame there aren't more RPGs about it, probably because its not PC or something.
>ancient temples
>unknown land
I was actually thinking in doing something of the sort with GURPS, but alas, no players.

>> No.77733560

Rolled 2 (1d8)

Here we go

>> No.77733737

Quicksand Elemental

>> No.77733751

Rolled 5 (1d8)

Let's see

>> No.77733812

If you're reading this thread to find out what system is a good starting point for OSR play, the 1981 D&D Basic Set (along with the Expert set, often referred to together as B/X) is considered the gold standard by most of this thread. Read the original rulebooks to learn how to play, and you may find them to be good for playing with as well. If you find the original rulebooks unsatisfactory, or if you need physical copies, consider one of the following reworkings of the books (known as retroclones):
Old School Essentials
>most accurate to the original books
>great format
>relatively expensive
Basic Fantasy RPG
>mild adjustments to rules
>decent formatting

Apologies for forcing a meme here but this may stop some unnecessary questions, so I'm going to keep doing it.

>> No.77733891

Self hating flail. A magic flail that gives you a +1 in hit and damage rolls. However, in order to use it properly, you have to alternate turns of attacking an enemy and inflicting damage on yourself at an increased +2 hit and damage rolls. Doing so will allow you to use the new modifier on your next attack. Maximum of +3, resets on a day time.

>> No.77734068

I've never killed a player character. Can any of you tell me what it is like, and what happened afterwards?

>> No.77734099

>d20swsrd is kill
Press F to pay respects

>> No.77734407

I've never killed a PC either. It's their fault that they died.

>> No.77734627

GMs don't kill characters
Dice do

>> No.77734683

Facepalms, groans, some rapid rolling of cubes, and a new character introduced as soon as feasible.

>> No.77735415

Does this mean that if you have some jerkoff teaching your dog to sit, but like 20 minutes into it a cat runs past and the dog chases the cat, then the dog is brought back, that dog will never learn to obey?

It seems equally dumb even with more challenging forms of training. I understand having to start over and maybe even taking longer to undo bad habits, but what's the logic of the animal suddenly being unable to train ever again? That's unrealistic as hell.

>> No.77735444

"Interrupted" implies something came up and you have to leave the dog with someone else for a week or something.

>> No.77735458

Even then. Wouldn't it just be a setback and not literally "welp, better get a new dog" levels of untrainable?

>> No.77735657

It's written unclearly, but I think the intent is that the animal can't start learning a new behavior for the rest of that training period. Like if you take a week off your gym routine, it takes a little while to get back into it.

>> No.77735674

It's an abstraction meant to tie the trainer to downtime. Behaviors only take two weeks after the first month. You don't lose all the training, just the behavior currently being trained.

>> No.77735701

Weeping, threats of bodily harm, shots of whisky, more threats of bodily harm, roll a new character.

>> No.77735879

>Apologies for forcing a meme here
Nah this is solid, man.

>> No.77735948

It can definitely have some annoying features but A, if you can identify those features as the referee, just fix them, and B, as the other anons have already said, it's an abstraction for simplicity and you shouldn't exaggerate what counts as an interruption. It's more like "if you hired a trainer to rear your griffin mount, but then goblins invade your fief and everyone has to flee Fort PC and spend like a month fighting rearguard actions before reaching the safety of Starting Town, this interrupts your mount's learning and it is now imperfectly reared due to the circumstances". It's not meant to be like "oh no, some asshole sneezed near my dog and now it's braindead and can never learn to roll over!".

>> No.77736026

Idea to deal with late game hp bloat getting in the way of players taking situations less seriously i.e. assassin with a dagger to the throat of a level 10 fighter:
>Dramatic Damage / Sneak attack damage
The damage of the attack is multiplied upward from what it would have been on a first level character until combat starts.

This way you can get stuff like a guard catching a pc unaware with a crossbow at their back and there's still risk of death.

>> No.77736088

Rolled 8 (1d8)

>> No.77736138

That doesn't scale. It actually puts higher level characters at a steeper disadvantage. You're better off forcing a saving throw. Alternately have a look at the 1e DMG assassination table.

>> No.77736150

>It actually puts higher level characters at a steeper disadvantage.
That's kinda the point honestly.

>> No.77736362

I meant steeper disadvantage proportionally to midlevel characters. I understand the desire to level the field, so to speak, but your scheme is making higher level characters easier to kill than mid level characters. Low level characters are just flattened on the curve.
Seriously, make it a save with a modifier based on level differential or look at that assassination table.

>> No.77736512

Wasting your time, lad. This is a 3e-type logic you're applying.

If you have a blade at a guy's throat he just dies when you stab him. HP are irrelevant. Why do you think you can just kill someone who's been knocked out with Sleep?

>> No.77736547

What god do the lawful clerics of your setting/game worship?

>> No.77736955

Adherents of Law do not worship a god. They obey the edicts of the Grand Temple, consult the Triune Texts, and invoke the Nine Virtues in time of need.

>> No.77737076

The Architect, which is why they can only use hammers and other blunt weapons. Clerics devoted to building cities and smashing dissent, both things done with hammers.
Yes this is ripped straight from the Thief games. It's great.

>> No.77737187

someone last thread asked about our maps so here is my WIP babbys first hex crawl.

Its simple, rivers only exist as random encounters for example, but I am actually making progress on it unlike my first abortive attempt which was a whole island with multiple nations which burned me the fuck out. This is a 15x15 plot of land with 6-mile hexes. My biggest hurdle is just coming up with interesting mysteries and dungeon ideas at this point but I'm making good progress by just grabbing ideas from the various OSR books I grab from the trove. Dungeon constructions gonna be a bitch though.

>> No.77737190

God. My Lawful religion is basically just the Catholic Church with a thin fantasy veneer, as it should be.

>> No.77737593

>ancient meme posted

>Um do you have proof of that? do you have evidence this happened? Are you willing to sign a document under penalty of perjury that proves you're willing to go to court and fuck my sister???? are you??

Idk why you guys dont just laugh at this guy

>> No.77737609

save drama for autosage, please

>> No.77737680

You may want to point out they both have free SRDs. No need to spoonfeed a link, but neophytes may need a prompt to google it.

Steal maps! Grab some of mine; grab some of Dyson's; grab them from content shared here or in other forums - and then let the dice tell you what's in there. From my experience, if you procedurally generate 2-3 dungeons, the next 2-3 are inspired: the more you make, the more you play, and the more you run, the more intuitive it is.

>> No.77737841

On the subject of using osr techniques and play for non osr systems
Why do simulationist systems such as twilight 2000 runequest and traveler seem to handles things the best.
Especially when compared with 3x and later/modern d&d.

>> No.77738155

Check out Aguirre, the Wrath of God. It's a film by Werner Herzog that is based on a weird, Spanish expedition into the Amazon. You might like to draw heavily from this because it sounds just like your campaign!

>> No.77738207

I can't speak for the others but traveller is built to strongly encourage DM imagination with just a little bit of realism to make it consistent. The elements of randomization in character creation and world generation seem bland at first, but once you realize they're intentionally vague and sometimes contradictory to encourage creative writing, they work so well. And the mechanics have enough detail to feel plausible but not so much they get bogged down... it avoids HP and hit locations by making damage reduce stats, for example, with mooks being just as dangerous as anyone else.

>> No.77738449

God. I too use Catholicism in my setting, I do allow veneration of saints in case players want some variety.

>> No.77738648

The Thief games have a great Law/Chaos dichotomy with the Hammerites and the Woodsyfolk/demon worshippers. Probably one of the best examples of Law vs. Chaos in a videogame, outside of maybe Dark Soul's Fire vs. Dark divide.

>> No.77738667

Anybody got a cheat sheet or something for things to note every turn? I have ADHD and something visual that's constantly in front of me would help a lot with consistency.

>> No.77738750

Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

>> No.77738754

Not sure exactly if this is the sort of thing you're after, but it's something.

>> No.77738836

Here is one.

>> No.77738979

Check these out:
You can print em out and mark some important things, like 'monster check every 2 turns' or whatever.
Put a bottlecap on a square, move it one slot for every 120 feet your dudes take.

>> No.77739086

>rolled 3
Ancient Gambling Hall [OC]
>This large ruined hall is mostly covered in rubble, but in one untouched corner sits a strange, cabinet-shaped machine. It has three wheels with symbols on them, kept behind a glass screen, a few slits in the front about the size of a coin, and a lever on the side.
>This ancient slot machine is inhabited by a ghost, which will not respond kindly to attempts to cheat or break into the machine (the first few attempts being met with obviously supernatural signs, such as the air suddenly becoming much colder, the glass fogging up and a message being written on it, and sounds of something moving about in the rubble).
>Roll 3d6 if someone plays it. If you get doubles, they earn twice their bet, and triples give six times the number rolled (so triple sixes would give a payout of 36 to 1, for example).

>> No.77740093

Can someone explain the blue text part? Pic related from book 1 men and magic. Alternate combat table. Trying to decipher odnd.

>> No.77740145

Figthing-Men advances as per the charts you see (so level 1-3 they have 17 Thac2, level 4-6 they have 15, etc.). Then, M-U advances every 5 level instead and Cleric 4. So a M-U has 17 Thac2 from level 1 to 5, and will switch to 15 at level 6.

>> No.77740216

Horus, Isis, and Osiris

>> No.77740232

What would be the best OSR system for a text play-by-post campaign?
Preferably something rules-lite and grimdark.

>> No.77740291


>> No.77740341

Thanks man. I get it now.

>> No.77740371

I get everything else, but what is the "Infractions:" part for?

>> No.77740397

What do you think of my map?

>> No.77740627

Looks good to me! There is not a lot of negative space - that is, it's compact, so that may pose a retreat risk, but the way the loops work, it offsets that concern, imo.

Got a key for us while we're here?

>> No.77740949

Not enough hallways

>> No.77741036

Is Whitehack Good? Is it Osr? I'm thinking about it for my first osr experience, and i found mixed responses. If someone thinks it's not OSR, could explain me why? Where does he fail/shrine as a game?

>> No.77741212

Stop replying to copypasta bait, retard.

>> No.77741584

They all work great for PbP.

>> No.77741941

>> No.77742099

Tell me how to optimize shit before I collapse at the table. Example scenario, four PCs, two hired mercenaries, 3 assorted non-combatants brought to help, and 6 orcs. How the fuck do I as the GM stop players from waiting on me to process all the turns for all these NPCs and creatures? I need some advice so I'm not obviously rushing through the turns for each of these. Do I need to roll to hit and damage for the mercenaries while I'm waiting on players? Should I just assume the non-combatants just cower in the back and become a fixture on the battlemap? Players out here having to make one turn every round, I'm here having to do 6-12. Please give me a flowchart or something guys.

>> No.77742218

is a stonehell a good way to introduce a table to b/x? I've heard enough about it to intrigue me and seeing as I'm the forever DM at our table I'm never going to get to play it, so I'd settle for running it. Or does it assume the players are seasoned already?

>> No.77742222

Where does this come from? It's utter bollocks, the PHB and DMG directly contradict that line of thinking. AD&D is as flexible as any TSR game. If it was the word of Gary then all I can say is that he has a bloody weird habit of flipflopping his views.

>> No.77742288

Over time, I've gone from enjoying Gygax's ideas to outright hating him. I put the blame on him and his AD&D for leading D&D (and the whole RPG scene to be honest) down a dark path.
After a time you begin to realize he was just swinging his balls around in AD&D/Strategic Review/Dragon to assert his dominance and crack down on competitors. Just contrast the OD&D advice with the later schlock. Shit, even in his posts in Dragonsfoot he comes off like an arrogant fuck.

>> No.77742332

NAYRT, this is definitely 100% true and from Gary, I've read it before. I think it's in a magazine, probably The Strategic Review

>> No.77742361

That's a module-specific escalation mechanic from Castle Xyntillan, and safe to disregard.

Would plunder.

>> No.77742448

Gygax was always keen to commercialize RPGs. His desire was also his undoing. TSR’s history is a Greek tragedy of betrayal of friends and of unmitigated greed. Gygax was clearly a man of excesses. From trying to steal D&D from Arneson with AD&D to coke and whores in a rented Hollywood Mansion in 1983, running out on his wife with his secretary Gail to joining the Jehovah Witnesses and refusing to say merry Christmas (and being a holier than thou sanctimonious prick about it). From millionaire to dying poor.
RPGs and wargames are best left at the cottage industry level. If for no other Reason than to keep greedy cunts out.

>> No.77742477

Why are you taking so long?
It helps to have multiple dice. Handle NPCs as groups, roll for them as groups. Similar to a wargame.
>the orcs charge
>*roll attacks for all orcs at the same time*
>mercenaries strike back
Even when dealing with large groups I was consistently faster than the average individual player. NPC plans are usually simple.

>> No.77742650

>You may want to point out they both have free SRDs. No need to spoonfeed a link, but neophytes may need a prompt to google it.
Good call, added.

>> No.77742714

roughly norse setting
Lawful means "innangard", "inside the fence", those clerics venerate the Aesir (bog standard Odin-kin)
Chaotic means "utangard", "outside the fence", our only Chaotic cleric so far is a literal schizo, the adopted daughter of the local canny-woman. She sees "angels of pure light" which is likely the touch of Loki, or maybe Exalted style fae from outside the known and sane universe.
Campaign is just getting going. Prep involved
>you guys want to pkay b/x in a greek setting?
>no? uh, how about norse?
>ok roll up characters
so far theyre crawling the Holmes basic dungeon (tower of zenopus) as a rite of adulthood.

>> No.77742790

How has Sleep managed to live to our day mostly unchanged in retroclones, when almost every other aspect of the game has been tinkered in one way or another?
I think it is THE weakest part of OD&D (and D&D in general). It's much, much more useful than any other spell at that spell level, and even arguably second level. Furthermore, NPCs are practically barred from using it until the party gets to higher levels because it's basically a guaranteed TPK with no save at levels 1-3.
It would be MUCH better as a 2nd level spell (to allow higher level MUs to 'skip trash fights'), and it should allow for saving throws (remember, no-save instant TPK)
>b-but MUs are too weak without it
Bullshit. In OD&D, the only advantage FM have in combat at first level compared to MUs is +1hp. Even a 1st level Magic Missile is more useful generally, I think. If you elected to make MUs weaker with d4 hp, that's on you.

>> No.77742830

God these rules are utter shit.

>> No.77742844

Sometimes I wonder what would've happened if Gary had kept the 'friendly fellow DM' persona of OD&D rather than 'shark businessman cult leader' of AD&D. Would D&D have prospered with a lot of 3rd party DIY supplemental content / brother games? Would the competitors actually have killed D&D? Would it have been better in the long run for the hobby?

>> No.77742864

It's Gygax fighting a desperate containment action against the entire community of unwashed nerds that in our time is balkanized between tabletop, vidya, MtG, warhams etc. and trying (largely successfully) to prevent them from sperging up his game with horseshit and warping it beyond all recognition. Unfortunately, the price of victory was proving that classic Nietzsche quote right.

>> No.77742922

Sleep should put 1d4 hd of non undead non constructs non plants to sleep. Saving throw for each character. It's way too powerful otherwise. It's the only spell worth choosing and that's retarded. I even made magic missile 1d8 to try to compensate but sleep was still better so I nerfded it.

>> No.77742942

It's something I want to mess around with for my shitbrew, I'd agree that having a saving throw is a pretty good idea. I also like the idea people have put out about not being able to choose who you put to sleep.

>> No.77742956

>Why are you taking so long?
Because I have been rolling for each of the NPCs and creatures individually, and also allowing the PCs that hired the mercs to shout an order as an instant action, so I've sometimes been waiting on the information before I can decide what the merc is doing.

I did some googling on mass combat, but what is your experience for "best method"? Something like "if a certain number attack at once versus target with AC of [n] then at least one is guaranteed to hit", or multiple attackers meaning effectively lower AC or something else?

>> No.77743056

Thanks, key to come as I try to finish writing this thing. It will be published so every word is chosen carefully. There's also a small hex-component. Maybe this Shilling Saturday will see this thing done? We will find out.

Not enough cowbell.

>would plunder
I cannot ask for more.

>> No.77743190

>It's much, much more useful than any other spell at that spell level, and even arguably second level.
Incorrect, Charm Person is its match. These two spells are basically the whole justification for a low-level magic-user, so removing them would be a crisis in Funkytown. Your notions are feeble and your experience is weak.

>> No.77743247

I like it. If I have an objection, it's that the secret doors universally just conceal small rooms; there are no secret *passages*, with secret doors on either end. But we can't have everything, especially in a small tomb, and there's sense in different places having different styles and themes, so this isn't a real criticism.

>> No.77743482

That’s the thing about ruthlessness and monetization someone always tries it. Gygax’s example spawned numerous imitators. While I write, illustrate and yes sell my shitbrew it is always a tiny fun hobby business where I can pump the meager profits back into buying more elf games and attending conventions. I have a real job in a non creative sector. I am a hobbyist first and always. Thirsty fags make the most bloodthirsty entrepreneurs. Gygax’s brokenness circa 1973 can’t be overstated. He should have used his obvious intelligence the education or training to secure steady, middle class work to provide for his family first and elf games second. Arneson was also a bit of a loser who never had a real job till the AD&D royalties died off and he was forced to teach at full sail in 2010.

>> No.77743588

>Would the competitors actually have killed D&D?
Unironically yes. A bunch of the slack-jawed troglodytes in A&E were smugly convinced their no-talent assholes were superior to Gygax in every way and would have leapt at any opening he gave them. That how he ended up that way in the first place, his interaction with those guys is a matter of record and starts off friendly and reasoning until the likes of Mark Swanson and Ted Johnstone start reeing and throwing their own shit everywhere.

>> No.77743606

>Arneson was also a bit of a loser who never had a real job till the AD&D royalties died off and he was forced to teach at full sail in 2010.
You know Arneson died in 2009, right?

>> No.77743642

Are you implying the undead have nothing to contribute to society?

>> No.77743734

Absolutely. I don't care about being called a skelephobe, it just ain't natural.

>> No.77743797

Sleep is only useful at low levels, as a "get out of jail free" card. Once you get to higher levels, it usually gets replaced.

>> No.77743881

Skelephobia isn't cool, they've gone through enough.

>> No.77743897

>t. Steve Lichman

>> No.77744039

Fuck, how do the fleshbags always know.

>> No.77744151

Wight Privilege

>> No.77744547

Close enough. He worked at full sail at the end of his life. I apologize for not having his date of death memorized Capt. Pendant.

>> No.77744581

That's Vice-Admiral Pedant to you.

>> No.77744638

Assuming competent play and I'm following RAW for treasure, how long will it likely take players to reach level 2?

>> No.77744687

Long as in sessions? Party size? Edition?
I'd calibrate around 1 or 2 sessions, assuming the usual rates of casualties and replacement level 1 PCs who don't get a share of the survivors' loot.

>> No.77744715

Is this, dare I say it, based?

>> No.77744741

It's... honestly pretty neat. I like it.

>> No.77744754

We self-shill on Saturdays.

>> No.77744780

Nobody here has that level of talent.

>> No.77744784

That's a good solution to keep it first level. Even so it's very powerful.

>Charm Person
No way. CP ha is decent, but it doesn't compare to instantly winning a fight against a (likely) superior force. Plus Sleep is more versatile, since it can be used against groups and single powerful enemies AT THE SAME TIME. And there's no save.
>if my 1st level MU can't instantly clear a room of hobgoblins by himself I'm not playing
Then tell me what is the justification for having 1st level FMs? ONE HIT POINT is literally the only advantage the FM has in combat over the FM. This is a terrible parroted excuse for the worst piece of game design in all of old school D&D. Would you be okay with the DM instantly TPKing the group with Sleep in a surprise round, no save?
Not really; you just gain access to more tools for room clearing so you don't need to latch onto this particular one. As long as you have Fireball you don't need Sleep, and can afford to use some spell slots on the other spells. But if you're expecting combat Sleep is your best bet for 1st level spells; even the most powerful enemies will often have 1-4HD grunts you can tag with it.

>> No.77744793

Now grognards all, whoever you may be,
If you want to rise to the top of the tree,
If your soul isn't fettered to an office stool,
Be careful to be guided by this golden rule.
Stick close to 4chan and never go far,
And you all may be rulers of the OSR!

>> No.77744826

Bump question

>> No.77744881

>Carefully like Skerples stealing,
>Breathing gently as we may,
>Every step with caution feeling,
>We will softly post away.
>Goodness me, why, what was that?
Silent be, it was the Zak
>It was, it was, the Zak
Too right, it was the Zak

>> No.77744910

are you mateo?

>> No.77744950

4 PCs, OSE

>> No.77744980

Yeah, probably 1 or 2 sessions. Also, nobody runs treasure purely RAW. Everyone fudges a little bit, just to save time at the table, add interest to a room, or solve a problem. It's a guideline.

>> No.77745233

Do you guys have any recommendations for OSR podcasts? I haven't been able to play lately, but I wouldn't mind to listen to someone else play. A lot of Podcasts I'm finding are labeled as "OSR" but actually aren't.

>> No.77745388

Indeed, the rolls can be wacky.

>> No.77745481

my setting is based on post collapse rome, where civilization is basically entirely destroyed outside of a few cities. I'm making factions for my players to join, anyone got some names for a group of traders trying to reestablish trade routes? any other ideas for factions would be cool too

>> No.77745519

Oh shit. Is that actually a map of that setting? I've never seen one before.

>> No.77745552

oh no, I just stole that name. heres a map of the young kingdoms

>> No.77745648

Gold-Paved Trader's Guild? The Silver Shoe? Those Guys That Keep Asking For A Discount At My Inn?

>> No.77745742


>> No.77745831

Thanks anons! Sorry for the late response; forgot I'd asked this until just now.

>> No.77745875

>Mare Nostrum
>straight up fucking Melnibone
I love it you beautiful bastard

>> No.77746009

this is why I like /osrg/, wbg got super pissy about me stealing names lol.
>hibernia is just what the romans called ireland
>north sea
>plains of ra is from thomas covenant (never read them just like the name)
>raetia and sarmium are also roman provinces
>mardia was taken from an anon here
>saint aug gave me gedrosia
I don't like coming up with names on my own

>> No.77746171

Alignment languages. Y/N? What was the point in the first place?

>> No.77746202

If Carthag was Qart Hadasht, it'd be cooler.

>> No.77746267

I'll admit i'm kind of salty about 'Carthag'.

>> No.77746351

Broad communication at the cost of potentially increased conflict

>> No.77746367

womp womp

>> No.77746384

>this is why I like /osrg/, wbg got super pissy about me stealing names lol.
What a bunch of fucking pricks. REH's Conan is full of pseudo-historical stuff and stolen names and is all the better for it.

>> No.77746390


>> No.77746441

yeah, though to be fair I got some shit here for it too, mostly for melnibone and Hellas. my argument was basically that you only get annoyed by the names you recognize, and most people don't know ALL of the names. people were telling me Hellas was bad because its a real thing, only to priase Campania or Sarmium, both of which are real names as well.

>> No.77746468

Thank you, i'm here all week.

I steal stuff all the time anon, if it works who cares. I like to steal from old books nobody reads.

>> No.77746818

I am sort of in your boat so I am not particularly qualified to answer but I can give you my experience. Like you, Whitehack is my first time with an osr type game. So far my players and I have enjoyed it a lot. By far it's greatest strengths are the freeform character creation and freeform magic system, which actually seem balanced as long as the DM is reasonable with HP costs for magic. Unlike a PbTA game like Monster of the Week where the magic is so open ended you can do almost anything, in Whitehack you make up a specific wording and must stick with that forever. I like that because it lets magic feel a bit more magical and let's players make exactly the flavor of wizard they want.
A lot of Whitehack will rely on GM rulings but it is a much more robust system than a truly rules-light game. The system does a good job of getting out of the way, and I found it easy to teach. It is not a clone of D&D, but it isn't trying to be. It could actually be used to play in a more modern "story focused" campaign with little problems or an old school hex crawl (what I am running), depending on how much quest xp the GM offers vs gold retrieved. The high lethality, gold retrieval as XP, and emphasis on planning are all very OSR. The groups mechanic steps in for skills and works pretty intuitively, but it requires some common sense rulings as it is a bit more "narrative." I find that much more engaging and creative for players then a standard list of skills, but maybe some people prefer a more gameified design.
If you want rules for travel I would suggest ripping them from somewhere else, as they are very barebones in Whitehack.

>> No.77746829

oh yeah, I have no qualms about stealing stuff for your setting. as long as you aren't selling it, who cares? you got a map of your setting anon?

>> No.77746903


>> No.77747039

Its not finished yet but its about 1/4 old TSR maps, 1/4 BFRPG maps, 1/4 stolen from you guys and 1/4 my own hexographer stuff. No player will ever see it so the ugly stitching doesn't matter.

>> No.77747179

>ONE HIT POINT is literally the only advantage the FM has in combat over the FM.
Can't Fighting-Men in OD&D 'cleave' multiple enemies or something like that? I recall they had specific advantages in that edition.

>> No.77747234

Relgarding a thief's ability to pick pockets, OSE says "A roll of more than twice the percentage required for success means that the attempted theft is noticed."

Does that mean there's no risk of getting caught trying if your success rate is >=55%, since you can't roll a 110?

I didn't say 51% because it increments by 5.

>> No.77747279

I don't agree with cleaving. Just like with women a man should handle his enemies one at a time, as God intended.

>> No.77747320

Who knew /OSRg/ was full of such cultured gentlemen? Jolly good show.

>> No.77747369

You don’t have to agree with it but there is a historical basis for it. Particularly with Landsknechte wielding 2 handed swords.

>> No.77747548

Not RAW; RAI probably as per Chainmail

>> No.77747568

Have them roll for their mercenaries. They want mooks, they have to keep track of them.
Have the noncombatatants be more or less irrelevant unless the orcs are murdering them.
Roll all the opfor stuff at once. Or have one of those sheets of randomly generated numbers and just go down the sheet in order.

>> No.77747571

There are more YouTubes and Twitches than AP podcasts - but link related are ones I've watched / listened to:
I'm also listening to Lord Gosumba on YouTube this week - he's not as prolific as some of the others, but his zoom+minis games, specifically, are pretty good TSR AD&D.
If you're up for "let's talk BX!" podcasts - not APs - I can recommend a couple of those too.

>> No.77747598

Who has some good magic items? One's with lore and interesting mechanics are a plus

>> No.77747638

Not to mention how cool it is.

>> No.77747734

There's 50 in the back of Wonder & Wickeness, they're pretty neat.

>> No.77747740

I think it's as good as any. The beginning zone, the canyon and gatehouse, is a tutorial area before the big delve. From this you can recognise that it is beginner friendly.

>> No.77747791

>nobody runs treasure purely RAW
I dunno about this, it's explicitly part of the rules as written that you should place most of the treasure by hand, especially the largest loot hoards.

>> No.77748455

I think that there is probably a chance you’ll be caught on a roll of 00, as that roll still causes automatic failure for the thief’s skill checks. It’s probably up to DM ruling.

>> No.77748474

I'm also going to check out Kings of the Sun, partially because I was disappointed in the lack of non-Spanish on Spanish fight scenes in Captain from Castille

>> No.77748968

Thanks a lot. I will remember this and i will try to fill the holes in the rules from other sources

>> No.77749870

I can speak up for Runequest I suppose. I mostly come here for OSR advice to apply to other systems, and while I don't get to play Runequest as often as I would like, it has a lot in common with OSR games already.

It's a very lethal system, which encourages players to approach problems in an OSR way already. No matter what a bad ass you are, a lucky hit from anyone could leave you dead or crawling away from your enemies while you bleed out, so players tend to approach combat from a combat as war mindset.

The skills are also pretty well selected (at least for the setting) to give you a realistic variety of ways to deal with problems, albeit less than the theoretically infinite methods available to OSR games, and it's a d100 system so your skills are usually pretty unreliable. So while it's technically a resolution mechanic, even skills you are good at will only resolve anything like 50% of the time if you don't do some leg work before making the roll.

And lastly, it's an old game. Most of the popular modules were made by war gamers in the 80s, and the newer stuff that I have seen is mostly just people building on that old lore.

>> No.77749971

Traveller is 100% OSR in all but D&D compatibility (and even so it is close...). Surely far more OSR than shit like DCC or Knave

>> No.77750035

Is it a super dumb idea to give players way more gold (Like double the amount, plus an amount equal to whatever monster XP they would get) and then require them to actually spend it to train or revel or whatever in order to level up?

Using B/X by the way.

>> No.77750063

The thread about your game is here: >>77629299
Take it there instead.

>> No.77750133


>> No.77750291

Why though?

>> No.77750560

because spending gold to level up is dumb.
In this new system treasure is inflated, and now players have to choose, level up sooner or spend money on supplies.

>> No.77750642

Isn't that a good thing?

>> No.77750714

How about you explain why you want >>77750035 instead of you asking me why your theorycrafting is dumb

>> No.77750763

Because it's silly that bringing money back to town makes you better at using a sword, or spells, or lockpicks, or prayers, or... Like literally anything but counting coins.

>> No.77750887

It's a historical fantasy setting that leans too hard on the "historical" parts, which isn't really what I want from my dungeoncrawling elfgames. RPGPendejo's assmad seething anytime people didn't give it universal praise was funny though. It still has plenty of good stuff though like the historical Dracula going full Castlevania and declaring Unholy War on the Turks in the name of God and Satan. In addition, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery is a great and criminally underrated system that I wish had gotten more love.

>> No.77751000

And its even more stupid that it costs so much to train. Getting to level 6 costs more than a fucking castle. Hell training for level 2 costs more than a house.

Plus it introduces the question of where does the money go during training? Are there retired adventurers that just get stupidly rich leveling up lower level adventurers? Can pc's train npcs for easy money, turn that money around on their own training and bypass dungeon crawling all together?

>> No.77751006

Bringing money back to town, in a game where doing so requires constant risk and threat, is a sign that you've accomplished something. It's a simple and effective shorthand.

>> No.77751209

It doesn't have to be a mentor and student sort of situation. The money could be spent on legal fees for trouble they got in while practicing, holy relics, ancient tomes, or conanesque drunken revelry. If I use it I was planning on giving the players a chance to say how they trained.

You have a good point about the high cost though.

So I suppose, seen in that way, it's like milestone leveling? Or maybe an easy way to summarize out of combat experience? That's still not especially palatable to me, but I see your point.

>> No.77751324

>So I suppose, seen in that way, it's like milestone leveling?
Kind of, in the sense that all levels that aren't super granular can be thought of as milestones that you arbitrarily hit.
>summarize out of combat experience
The way I think about it is that the act of adventuring is a better teacher than anything else out there, when it comes to being good at adventuring. My characters will never be amazing at anything other than adventuring, but if they're out there risking their lives for treasure, they are getting better constantly.

>> No.77751394

>In addition, Fantastic Heroes & Witchery is a great and criminally underrated system that I wish had gotten more love.
The author has basically abandoned it. How many books were announced and never released?That’s why it doesn’t get more love.

>> No.77751413

>The money could be spent on legal fees for trouble they got in while practicing, holy relics, ancient tomes, or conanesque drunken revelry.
To that Im going to just repeat what you said, Its silly that spending money on legal fees and drunken partying will give you xp.

Honestly the only reason people tend to do carousing tables or mandatory training expenses are because they don't want the players to spend money on tangible things in the game like more hirelings, better equipment, a wagon, a ship, or a castle. Which is a real shame because I think the game can be more interesting when the are more involved with things like that.

>> No.77751436

If you give them more gold they could forgo leveling to do more of those things.

>> No.77751547

I think a question you should ask yourself is - is it a meaningful choice to make people choose between using their gold to buy things that potentially either improve their chances of survival or open up new options in the game as a whole, or using their gold on gaining levels? Forget realism, just ask yourself if that's creating an interesting dilemma or if you're really just slotting it in because you feel like it should be there.

>> No.77751566

But now every expense is an opportunity cost that directly affects their character even more than it would before. Every single purchase is lost potential xp.

If you really want to do it, go for it, take notes, and come back to us.

>> No.77751638

The vast majority of OSR games use a rock-stupid evaluation of gold as it relates to goods and services. The economy surrounding it makes little to no sense because of this.

I don't know which game's equipment list handles the prices best, but I've heard LotFP does it very well.

>> No.77751885

Nerds like you trying to pointlessly worldbuild are the reason 2e was made

>> No.77752018

Post some decent one page dungeons for me to pilfer, pls.

>> No.77752188


>> No.77752701

Is this from the new OSE book? Is it out yet in PDF? Any Trove has it?

>> No.77752716

XP for gold is an abstract representation of trial and adversity but given a quantifiable number via gold. Its an easy way to consistently track and encourage the gameplay loop.

>> No.77753013

I'm aware it was abandoned; I still like the system anyways. Luckily it's packed with more than enough content that you don't really need much else beyond a Monster Manual.

>> No.77753089

I don't personally care about simulating real medieval economics, I just don't like having gold coins be as common as dirt. In my shitbrew I just took the regular item list but changed gold for silver, so instead of costing five gold coins, an item costs five silver, and a gold coin is worth twenty silver instead of ten. e.g. if I'm reading a module and a chest is supposed to contain 3,000 gold coins, I change it to 3,000 silver coins (or 150 gold coins) instead.

I want gold to feel very valuable, if the players find a chest with piles of gold coins they should go "holy shit!" not "cool, a couple more chests like this and we can put a down payment on a house"

>> No.77753150

I don't want to sound adverserial, but have you thought about just using something like "mithril coins" or "platinum coins" etc. and make it worth x20 or x30 gp? That way you literally have to change nothing and you can just drop some of those from time to time for a "oh shit" moment.

>> No.77753241


>> No.77753364

This is simply darling. I love it.

>> No.77753411


>> No.77753591

Sure I could raise the ceiling but that doesn't change the problem of gold itself being treated like pennies. It just makes the setting feel way too epic and fantastical when you've got peasant farmers walking around with bags of gold coins just to buy seeds. I expect that kind of thing from nuD&D but not a hardscrabble sword and sorcery dungeon crawler. Maybe it's just me.
Plus it's not that hard to just read "500 gp" and flip it in my head to "500 sp." It's probably not any more realistic historically (would a week's worth of food really cost five silver coins? Fuck if I know). If I wanted to go full autist I'm sure I could find real historical price lists from like 13th century England but I find my system works well enough for me.

>> No.77753607

Heed the words of papa Gary. XP for gold is an abstraction and a game mechanic, one that lies at the heart of D&D. Tinker with it at your peril.
In particular, I would avoid any alternation that requires players to spend GP in order to earn XP. This has many deleterious effects on a campaign beyond simply keeping the players too poor to equip themselves. The obvious knock-on effect is that characters are always scrabbling for gold, when they should in fact be hoarding wealth to match their growing power, which requires social ties to the campaign-world: how do they guard their money and protect it from thieves? They'll need a stronghold and loyal servants (or as loyal as money can buy), as well as connections to whatever passes for civilization in the region. Constantly draining the PCs' coffers will turn them into itinerant murder-hoboes, which is fine if you want Conan to be a pirate and a thief in perpetuity, but then you miss out on the endgame where he becomes a conqueror and then a king and wears the crown upon his troubled brow.
I actually ran this dungeon during a campaign once. It was fun.

>> No.77753685

Oops, forgot to add: the more subtle side-effect is that players start to feel like they can simply buy XP with GP, which makes it harder for the DM to keep a firm hand on XP awards. It's important for the DM to be able to moderate XP awards to fit the level of danger the PCs faced. Gold easily won is worth less XP, and gold that wasn't won through adventuring at all should be worth none. Players should never be able to come anywhere near feeling like they're awarding themselves XP by wasting gold.

>> No.77753996

>but then you miss out on the endgame where he becomes a conqueror and then a king and wears the crown upon his troubled brow.
Don't like, only players who have been playing for 3+ years get to the domain level? How good are the domain/companion rules anyways? Isn't there a reason everyone recommends ACKS if you actually want to play at that level?

>> No.77754195

Gold of variable value seems like a pain to track and seems like adding arbitrary value to what is supposed to be a simple, understandable 1 GP=1 EXP. If you want Milestone advancement through hardship and adventure you can do that without adding pointless coin counting.
Also this entire thing of "firm hand on XP awards" BEYOND what is placed in the dungeon reeks of balance talk, like am I putting them on an XP budget when I build each floor and encounter? Which encounters and places are more 'adventurous' and therefore give you the special 1.5x +25% exp gold coins? Which ones are "easy" and don't get extra value? And do wandering monsters appearing change the value of the gold?
Did you really have to say 'gold easily won' and 'gold that wasn't won through adventuring' instead of 'dangerous monsters keep big hoards of gold and abandoned bandit dens have a few silvers'?

>> No.77754229

based and ~Zozpilled

>> No.77754336

>should be gently but firmly reminded that in a game certain compromises must be made
>While it is more "realistic" [...] it would not make a playable game roll along

I'm so used to hearing shit D&D rules get defended on the basis of "muh realism, muh verisimilitude" (especially during the 3.5 dark ages) that I'm surprised to read this straight from Gygax himself. I honestly would've expected some bizarre mental gymnastics about how "gold = xp" is actually realistic and historically accurate.
It's like half the time he was the stereotype of the unbearable grognard tyrant, and half the time he was a perfectly reasonable game designer just trying to make sure everybody has a good time with the game

>> No.77754385

Those two sides are basically whether or not he had his businessman hat on.

>> No.77754410

>Which encounters and places are more 'adventurous' and therefore give you the special 1.5x +25% exp gold coins? Which ones are "easy" and don't get extra value? And do wandering monsters appearing change the value of the gold?
Obviously you use the OD&D Fractional Experience System.
>Gains in experience points will be relative; thus an 8th level Magic-User operating on the 5th dungeon level would be awarded 5/8 experience. Let us assume he gains 7,000 Gold Pieces by defeating a troll (which is a 7th level monster, as it has over 6 hit dice). Had the monster been only a 5th level one experience would be awarded on a 5/8 basis as already stated, but as the monster guarding the treasure was a 7th level one experience would be awarded on a 7/8 basis thus; 7,000 G.P. + 700 for killing the troll = 7,700 divided by 8 = 962.5 x 7 = 6,037.5. Experience points are never awarded above a 1 for 1 basis, so even if a character defeats a higher level monster he will not receive experience points above the total of treasure combined with the monster's kill value. It is also recommended that no more experience points be awarded for any single adventure than will suffice to move the character upwards one level.

>> No.77754463

I've played a bit of OSR but mostly "OSR inspired" stuff. Recently I fell in love with the Known World setting and I want to run it using OSE. I've read much of the book but I'm worried I'm going to forget to do important things like checking for encounters every day in the wilderness.

Is there a list somewhere like, "here are the sections of the 299-page OSE Tome you need to be 100% solid on to run the game" or what?

>> No.77754636

Spoken like an ignorant dipshit who hasn't bothered to read the rules. When characters take treasure from equal or stronger opponents, 1 gp = 1 XP. When they take treasure from weaker monsters or lesser challenges, the XP award is reduced commensurately, either by formula (OD&D) or ad hoc judgement (AD&D).
>Gold of variable value seems like a pain to track and seems like adding arbitrary value to what is supposed to be a simple, understandable 1 GP=1 EXP.
Much has been written in the last 15 years about how great it is that 1 gp = 1 XP is a straightforward and understandable associated mechanic that ties XP (a meta, out of game number) firmly to gp (an in-game, in-fiction number). And it's true: this is good. But never forget that for all the primering, theorizing, and exegesis you see tossed around in the OSR sphere, it's all nothing more than a post-hoc justification for why D&D works the way it does. The aim is to get you accept and play D&D, not to shoot for some Platonic Ideal of Old School that improves upon the Old Ways.
Nobody will ever give a shit about your three-page shitbrew that supposedly distills B/X down to its purest essence. Just play fucking D&D.

>> No.77754652

There is a very good DM screen for OSE. Otherwise what I personally do instead of DM screen, is that I have one sheet (when I play online, one "spread" on excel or google sheet) with all informations/procedures pertaining to one specific aspect of play. So for example, if the PCs decide to go into the wilderness to reach a dungeon, I'll take out my "Wilderness" sheet (travel, weather, distance, etc.). If I roll a random encounter of monsters, I'll pick out my "Encounter" sheet (distance of encounters, reaction rolls, etc.). If if ends up being a combat, I pick up the "Combat" sheet. Then if they reach the dungeon, I pick up the "Dungeoncrawl" sheet. I think you get the gist. That way I only concentrate on what is pertinent to me at the time. Sometimes, rules overlap and I have the same rule (such as reaction) on multiple sheets. That's just me. Otherwise like I say, you can use the DM screen as reference. Futhermore, you can always rule it "on the fly", then check in between games and take note of that particular rule to apply it better/more detailed next time you play. Players won't necessarily see the difference (unless you explain to them all the rules and all your doing, which I don't think you should).
I guess it's a matter of perspective. Personally I prefer using GP as pennies for the sake of simplicity, but I can see the appeal of SP as pennies too.

>> No.77754694

Sick. Thank you so much, anon. I'll put it on Google sheets in different pages. That'll be so much easier to flip between and keep up with than multiple PDFs, some with the need to skip between chapters, etc.

>> No.77754810

Honestly curious if anybody bothers with fractional experience. Just seems like more paperwork for everyone.

>> No.77755019

It sounds very tedious. Plus, you can't just convert the gold to XP straight away since you've got to cart it out of the dungeon and store it first, so I've got to keep track in the dungeon of all the treasure you found, who found it, and how much XP it's all worth relative to both the gp value AND the weight. So every time you find more treasure you have to make a separate entry for it like
>1,000 gp (recovered from lethal trap: 1,000 xp)
>rubies, approx 2,367 gp (found from kobolds: worth only 473.4 xp)
>10 gp (found in sofa: 0.5 xp)
Then if you find more than you can carry you've got to figure out which is worth the least XP per gp value per weight, drop enough to carry the new treasure, then recalculate the XP value and weight of the new total. Forget that, what's even the point of tying XP to gold at that point when you're only giving the PCs as much XP as you feel like they 'earned' from a given encounter anyway?

>> No.77755076

Plus you would have to do all of that per PC in a party of mixed levels.
Pretty sure everybody just does 1gp=1xp

>> No.77755433

I just realized. I think my PCs have a bit too much gold, so I face an impasse. Charge them for future level ups a la AD&D, or pressure them for heavier taxes. Or maybe have some folks...becoming interested in them to say the least. They are garnering a reputation. What would you lads say is a good way to accurately reflect their wealth?

Not trying to be a dick, just trying to open up new situations and fun times.

>> No.77755448


this sounds cunty, but DnD DMs back then apparantly didn't get it, I think Tim Kask recounted an anecdote where they got a letter from a bewildered DM who had no idea where to go ask his party, at level 8, had stormed asgard and killed all of the aesir and was asking for more powerful monsters

>> No.77755467


im really curious to see those stat blocks

>> No.77755704

if they're not ready to start dumping money into a stronghold, then let them buy a pirate ship. players love pirate ships

>> No.77756243

Having way too much money isn't an issue at all. It just means they'll encounter different problems than having too little money.

Like you said, the old rich may feel threatened and keep eyes on them. How are they storing or transporting all this money without an established banking system? Can they maybe purchase their own sailing ship or invest it to buy a stake in a voyage to a far off land? That's an adventure right there.

>> No.77756405

This is bad ass. Anyone got the continuation?

>> No.77757030

What are some good traps one would find in a dense forest?

>> No.77757209

Oh, yeah. The first ten minutes have an assault on a pyramid as well as an escape through elaborate tunnels and secret passages. That's the kind of cheezy inspiration.

>> No.77757244

>I don't know which game's equipment list handles the prices best
It's ACKS by a country mile. They actually sat down and autisted out the entire economy so you don't have to.

>> No.77757265

The classic spike pits, snares and logs swinging from trees are always good. Lest out meat to attract predators, and the predators themselves can be gimmicked, like exploding woodpeckers or knife owls.

>> No.77757531

Should I ever trust my players to name a monster? I like the idea but I suspect they'll either say "that thing" or something dumb.

>> No.77757602

>2 snares set by each other to different far apart trees, the idea being to rip someone's legs off in different directions
>deadfall or very steep drop in the ticket, covered in thorns
>large rock covered in moss is magnetic/magical enough to throw off their compass, just keep describing the same rock and hex location until they figure it out
>poison ivy in mass quantities but under coverbush

>> No.77757626

Your players will waste that gold without any of your help, let em do with it what they will

>> No.77757909

You should read more of Gygax's rules explanations, especially early Gygax. In an issue of A&E he says he thinks a mana-based magic system would probably be better, but Vancian is much simpler to explain and handle in play, so that's what he put in the game. (A decision subsequently justified by 40 years of game designs proving that it's impossible to balance a mana-based system.)

>> No.77757949

I've started working on an adventure I've wanted to do for a while based off the King Raven trilogy. It's essentially a retelling of the Robin Hood mythos set in Wales.

Can I get some input and feedback while I'm still (very) early on? Suggestions on what you'd enjoy seeing as a Referee or player?

>> No.77758231

>The aim is to get you accept and play D&D, not to shoot for some Platonic Ideal of Old School that improves upon the Old Ways
I'd rather not play RAW AD&D, thanks. Games have flaws we can discuss and fix in our homebrews to our own tastes. No OSR game of mine will ever feature fractal gold or another retarded asinine mechanic from the depth of Gary's butthole, and doing this was the case back in the day as well, as most people just ignored most clunky rules from AD&D.

People also forget reaction rolls weren't universal, only applied to a small section of monsters, and Charisma didn't influence it at all, yet they are now a core part of the OSR identity, and not weapon speed based initiative or 1e triple multi-class bard class design and such.

>> No.77758594

>1e triple multi-class bard
I miss that guy. Always wished it got some revision like the monk and been made a little more manageable.

>> No.77758649

How are your campaigns going forever GMs?

>> No.77758660

Usually the player leave the campaign. They can be a bit slty but they join in again with a new character in a few weeks. Some people add them on the spot but I find it cringe since I run heavey RP sessions and people don't feel like playing new character so soon.

>> No.77758786

What I do with large (More then 6) skirmish:
Initiative is clumped by groups. Those 3 orks are on one. Those 3 on another. You two on third and so on. I rarely use initiative though since it takes players out of the moment.
Larger groups have static damage. I only roll for attack. Roll at once to hit and damage. Creatures that are hearing death or receive almost deadly hit are killed off to give a more dramatic and slashbuckling feel of the combat. I early so many mobs though. It is mostly big ass boss creatures. Players should know when they are up and they would have 15-30 seconds to finish their turn. If they are unsure and more time passes theor turn is skipped.
For really rage combats I flat down things to series of single rolls with cause and effect. Esther that PCs get wounded or they kill thw combatant. Since you can have dozens of these in one large scale combat there is no point in running it as usual since it will drag on forever.

>> No.77758838

Jesus. Just let them play the merk in combat. Metawise they are still shouting orders and what not. But mechanically it is not a nightmare. All familiars, pets and mercs go on the same turn as the PC controlling them. No extra initiative rolls. And if he is trying to do something dangerous you can step in to make them feel a bit more alive and not totally in players control. Like deciding to help an ally instead of attack or panicking. Why are you making something so simple complicated for yourself?

>> No.77759108


>> No.77759164

Reminder that megadungeons are the one true campaign combining player-challenge & fun with unlimited artistic potential for the GM.

>> No.77759296

Yes but when your players are older then 16 and have played dungeon crawls for years? I personally have not ran a dungeon for two years now. Extream burnout.

>> No.77759386

What system did you play when you had your "burnout"?

>> No.77759516

A question for DMs:
Are there any interesting secrets or lore that your players have never discovered? (Whether it just be a single hidden room, or an item that they missed.)

I'll go first:
>I have a campaign that I've been running for about 10 ~ 15 years for various groups (I'd say about half a dozen or so.) In the campaign, there are two specific locations that both have rooms with dome-shaped ceilings and star patterns. These locations are several hexes away from each other, yet the players have never discovered that if you interact with the star patterns in a very specific and obvious way, that you instantly can travel between both rooms as if they were just next to each other. This could easily cut tons of travel time for anyone passing between the areas, yet nobody has taken my hints... And I intentionally leave it that way.

>> No.77759566

Pretty good. We've been going for a couple years, now. I've learned a lot about creativity.

I like the idea!

In my game, for whatever reason, the party doesn't follow up on information I give them, or ask around about almost anything. So most of the information I've come up with tends to be kept to myself. It's usually not _that_ important I guess.

They also tend to miss all of the interesting things somehow... they've mananged to completely avoid every magic item I've placed so far.

>> No.77759615

You ever had a new player nail all their rolls? I had a guy who killed every enemy in one hit on our first dungeon runs. Pretty fun.


>> No.77759714

One attack per experience level while in 'non-heroic combat', or some similar funny term. It boils down to attacking as many 1HD (or less) monsters per turn as the fighter has experience levels. If there's a 2HD monster in the mix you'd attack him once or the group of small fry for as many attacks as you'd get for them.

>> No.77759745

I run different system for each campaign. For some years I run mostly my own. But the system is a small part of the experience at least how I run it. Currently I run bronze age wilderness adventure. Really refreshing.

>> No.77759804

Amazing. Incorporating OSR design principles really improved my gahobby. I redesigned my system from the ground up to minimize character skill and maximize Player skill. Games have been 100 times more fun since. Also as a forever GM it is by far the most fun I have had in years. Designing encounters and puzzles to not rely on rolls but creative thinking.

>> No.77759820

I asked which system you played when you had that burnout.

>> No.77759902

I understand but the system has nothing to do with it. The concept of dungeons got me burned out not the system. The system is just that. Rules and Rulings. My style of running is the same in every system. Enjoinment of the game is the same in 5e fresh as it is in B/X and ADnD. I always take out shit I don't like anyway. Like most skill checks in 5e for the occasional game, I run in it.

>> No.77760030

is this a draconian or a lizard man or some other serpentine monster?

there is no 2e thread so i ask here

thank you

>> No.77760067

>they've mananged to completely avoid every magic item I've placed so far.
This reminds me, also in said campaign, there is a gauntlet hidden at the bottom of a collapsed fountain. Only one person has ever retrieved it because the area that they must swim through to get to it is very dangerous and you could drown. Nobody has ever pieced together that on the previous floor there is a pair of valves that you can open or close to raise and lower the water levels

>> No.77760148

>image title is "riverwind vs draconian by clyde caldwell"
It's probably a dog, anon.
Looks like Xak Tsaroth, so it's probably meant to be a Baaz. They're meant to be mottled bronze and green instead of all green, though.

>> No.77760169

some quick googling tells me that the price to feed a knight/merchantman for a year was 30-60 pound sterling. there's 20 shillings in a pound which I am gonna assume would be the equivalent to a silver piece so 20x30=600. 600/365 is 1.64 so let's round up and say it costs about 2 silver coins a day to eat well, that is to say like a merchant. so 14 silver a week? I'm a retard and I got these prices from google so who knows but 5 silver, if you are cheaping out, sounds plausible to me.

>> No.77760316

Sorry mate but I'm married to hexcrawls. Although there is a megadungeon on the hexmap.

>> No.77760323

>Should I ever trust my players to

>> No.77760335

I'd like to do a mega dungeon one day but the thought of putting it to paper makes me want to die.

>> No.77760414

Just divide it up into sections or levels of, say, 20-40 rooms. Do one level at a time, maybe one a week, maybe one a month.
You could run it as is with just one or two sections complete, locking unfinished areas behind magic doors that require special keys or a certain spell to open, letting the players adventure elsewhere while you get it ready.

>> No.77760441 [DELETED] 

I think it's a kapak draconian. I read that book when it came out and I remember agonizing over what kind of draconian it was based on the scene. It's a Caldwell painring so it's gaudy and not consistent with the narrative. That thing looks more serpentine than draconian

>> No.77760458

I think it's a kapak draconian. I read that book when it came out and I remember agonizing over what kind of draconian it was based on the scene. It's a Caldwell so it's gaudy and not consistent with the narrative. That thing looks more serpentine than draconian

>> No.77760493

You are wrong utterly wrong.

>> No.77760619

This is good advice. I'd reduce the room count by half to an average of 15 but that's a personal preference.
I love keyed portals. They enforce exploration. If the party has to backtrack they'll always find something they missed.

>> No.77760636

The thing about the hex being impassable strikes me as both badly artificial and difficult to get to work well in play. You ought to consider that players will typically try to handle an obstacle like that by burning the whole thing down or with axes, not by searching for a tunnel. You're basically goading them into destruction. I think it would be better to use confusion and misdirection: in the actual Robin Hood stories nobody but the outlaws can find their camp simply because it's in a massive featureless fucking forest, and that's ample. You're talking about a few hundred square meters in a six-mile hex, it's easy as hell to just walk past.

>> No.77760675

>there is a gauntlet hidden at the bottom of a collapsed fountain. Only one person has ever retrieved it
What? Isn't one enough? Shouldn't that mean it's not there anymore?

>> No.77760851

Not questioning your burnout - I get that you don't want to do another dungeon sometimes - but to compare the enjoyment of those three systems is apples and oranges. Yes, they are both foods, both round, and both grow on trees - but I'd never make an Orange Pie with Cheddar.

nayrt, but dude might be recycling the adventure for different groups. I have done that before - especially if running one shots over a sandbox or campaign.

>> No.77760862

OK boomer

>> No.77760885

I see your point. But for me the enjoyment from the game comes form the reactions of my players. Seeing wander, fear, hartbreak or hope in their eyes and knowing we are creating something special. The mechanical "game" is just the icing on top.

>> No.77761118

You just lack imagination. I know such GMs. The book is their Bible and they preach instead of enjoying the experience. It is OK. As long as your players are putting up with your autisum and are having fun.

>> No.77761357

How many of you just plumb through Dwarf Fortress on Legends mode for maps, names, events sites, artifacts, npcs, etc? Everything has such a weird, inscrutable quality to it, like you're an 8 year old kid reading the appendices in the back of Return of the King again.

>> No.77761577

Patrician taste friend.

>> No.77761709

Fuck yeah I want to go to... Enshaldod¢k, "Budclasp", fortress

Owner: The Perplexing Vice, goblins
Parent Civ: The Wretched Dungeon, goblins
136 goblins
5 humans
31 dwarves
8 elves
45 silver devils
45 horned monsters
10 dogs
3 cats
10 donkeys
10 sheep
2 chickens
2 geese
2 guineafowls
10 rabbits
1 goblin visitor
16 dwarf visitors
1 goblin outcast
1 dwarf outcast
2 dwarf prisoners
2 elf prisoners

Fetch me a wineskin and the 2 elf prisoners in the seraglio so I can regale them with stories of Estunkegeth "Bindholds" the legendary copper short sword.

This is a copper short sword. This object is adorned with hanging rings of blue diamond. On the item is an image of taro in red beryl. On the item is an image of a round cabochon in sapphire.

In the late spring of 84, Bindholds received its name in Granitecobalt from the elf Thilu Glittermeadow after defeating the goblin Kosoth Palacetrade.

It is said that in the early summer of 140, Bindholds was lost in The Crewed Forests.

>> No.77761719

Certainly that is the case with some but not every OSR game needs to be a D&D clone. That is arbitrarily deciding to go with the past instead of improving upon it. I play Whitehack and my table loves it. Neither they nor I want to deal with the bloat and confusion of D&D. Whitehack keeps a lot of the core but offers more flexibility and a simpler ruleset. It's not for everyone but perfect for me. I do wish /osrg/ was a bit less hostile overall to anyone who doesn't want to play BECMI, AD&D, or OSE.

>> No.77761720


>> No.77761862

Question, how many of you have settlements besides the starting one and how thoroughly (or how) do you stock them?

>> No.77762008

Can't comment on people who do it, but I've been running OD&D for about 50 sessions over more than two years, and my highest level is 6. In other words, I don't see any reason to further slow down their progression and include additional book keeping. I did away with that rule even before I started the campaign.

>> No.77763025

I'm going to be running OSE soon for the first time in about a week. I'm going through the referee's screen, making sure I understand everything, and consulting the book about anything ambiguous. I do have a few of questions that the book didn't make 100% clear, though.

1. Intent to move out of melee (whether that's backing off at half movement speed or turning and fleeing) has to be declared at the beginning of a combat round. Then initiative is rolled, and then monsters make morale checks. If they fail, they turn and flee. Is this an exception to the need to declare that they're moving out of melee ahead of time? Or do I roll it, keep it to myself, and announce that they're trying to leave melee at the start of the next round?

2. During initiative, each side rolls 1d6, and if there's a tie then either turns resolve simultaneously or both sides reroll. Is this a thing you decide in the moment each time, or can the players say they want to reroll rather than do it simultaneously? Or is it saying, "Here's a gap, doesn't matter what you do, but make a consistent house rule?" And if I'm going to consistently reroll ties, then wouldn't it actually be better to roll d% or something to save time rerolling?

3. If one side in a combat tries to flee and the other wants to pursue, do you switch to the evasion rules from the encounter section, or roll initiative to see if the pursuing side gets to close on them before they can move further out of range, and just play it out as further combat until one side is dead or the fleeing ones have gotten far enough away?

>> No.77763131

Oh wow. I used to do this but now players level up almost every session. And we just finish campaigns faster. Mages have to quest for spells anyway and most are homebrewed. So it ends up being pretty easy for me to run. And since no rerolls or flat+hp on level - no character has more then 100 HP anyway. Most are around 70 for warriors at LV 20.

>> No.77763261

Not to mention, how awful and boring it is to track it... coming from an Exalted player. Yeesh!

>> No.77763383

How do you like your dragons?

Personally I'm debating the whole "dragon color = elemental breath weapon" thing. I mean I get it, but it's kind of lame at the same time.

>> No.77763454

Interesting. I only use mana-based systems. On average a first lv caster would have 5-10 mana. So rough equivalent of 5-10 1st Lv spell slots. But I nerf spells big time. And wizards don't get new spells when they level but have to quest or buy them. As a mage player (when not forever GMing) I just can't see the fun of being a wizard and having to sleep after one shitty little spell. Some people like it. I am yet ro find a player IRL that does.

>> No.77763473

>impossible to balance
Why would you want to balance it? If you are a magic user you are objectively the strongest character in the party. Otherwise, just remove magic from the game.

>> No.77763710

It’s super lame and I don’t use it. All my setting’s dragons are uniquely colored.

I also don’t like super intelligent neat immortal dragons anymore. I’ve started to prefer, smaller, more bestial dragons that don’t have witty riddle fights with halfling adventurers.

>> No.77763739

So you don't play any osr at all, don't understand the specific importance of how mechanics and gameplay style interact to create experiences, and don't understand how you're your own problem for burning out.

>> No.77763832

I do. But not exclusively. Every campaign we use new system. I burned out because I got bored. Simple as. You sound like you take children pretend games too seriously. Just have fun bro.

>> No.77763882

>every campaign we use a new system
>but the system doesn't matter I run it the same anyway
>I swear its osr
>but its also not sometimes hehe
>I have no idea why I got bored must be the dungeon concept
You sound like an idiot.

>> No.77764004

You are autistic.
I play OSR AND I play other games. I understand having deep daddy issues makes you feel like you desperately need to belong to a tribe so you think you are the most hard-core OSR gamer somehow the hole in your heart will be filled but man... Take a break and stop taking literal children's games so seriously. Get together with the bros. Play a silly pretend game and move on with your week in good a mood.

>> No.77764354

>If you're up for "let's talk BX!" podcasts - not APs - I can recommend a couple of those too.
NTAYRT but I'd like to hear some reccs

>> No.77764684

Your entire nonsense-spiel could be spared if you just said what game you ran as you experienced this burnout with dungeons. That's all there was to it. Everything else is charging at windmills, who do you think I am?

>> No.77764870

By Allah, I have seen cases of cancer caused directly by 3e.

>> No.77765057

>why yes, i did a fantasy world in 10 minutes by flipping a map of europe upside-down and assigning pre-modern place names

>> No.77765343

>>77763025 here. Any help?

>> No.77765482

I've got, idk, 10ish? I've stocked them all a decent amount. Populations + interesting features, which gives rise to relevant factions that I can use for generating rumors. But my campaign's a couple years old- don't do that all before you start.

>> No.77765560

DnD 3.5

>> No.77765654

True. But was fun of you tard tangled it enough.

>> No.77766316

> 1.
Declaration of intent to move out of combat - as I have played it: I don't have a book in front of me - is only applicable if you're doing a fighting withdrawal: that is, you're not getting hit for moving and you're giving up your attack.
Regarding monster morale - you should internally declare what they intend to do, and if they fail morale, they flee instead: potentially getting ganked by player characters on the way.

> 2.
Tell your group up front what you're doing and stick with it. Personally, I prefer simultaneous actions, following the combat sequence, as it eliminates the possibility of re-rolls having to be re-rolled and it makes ties interesting: shaking stuff up a bit.

> 3.
Truthfully, this hasn't come up for me in a long time. However, assuming you're talking about evading the encounter instead of engaging, I go right to pursuit/evasion. If you're talking about failing morale and fleeing combat, any fleeing character in combat, they retreat (not withdraw), so may get ganked on the way out, on their initiative - then, if the winning side wishes to pursue, go into evasion/pursuit. Not sure how RAW that is, but that's what I've played.

Down in a Heap comes to mind - he's running a S&W game and has been talking shop about S&W and dragons.
Minions and Musings, too - the host talks about B/X - on his podcast and on others.
Bandit's Keep podcast: the host is starting an OD&D + Chainmail game and talks about his readings and experience trying to run them together.

I've got others that are on the burner - like Tavern Chat (for industry news; I skip some other stuff, like the health episodes) - but those first three are a good representation of old-school focus talk programs.

>> No.77766365

>If you're talking about failing morale and fleeing combat, any fleeing character in combat, they retreat (not withdraw), so may get ganked on the way out, on their initiative - then, if the winning side wishes to pursue, go into evasion/pursuit. Not sure how RAW that is, but that's what I've played.
I was talking about fleeing combat. That makes a lot of sense; I'll do the same.

And thank you for all the tips.

>> No.77766469

Any osr have any good lifepath/background generators?

>> No.77766500

Not really necessary. I use the occupation table from DCC or players can make something up. The important point is that nothing really important has happened. Your back story starts one session one. It is the groups shared imaginary experience that defines the characters not some crappy fanfic backstory no one will remember.

>> No.77766531

>because games aren’t important to me they shouldn’t be important to you and you are wrong for taking them seriously.

>> No.77766650

Knock! issue 1 on top of a lot of other blog shit has a D66 list of backgrounds but nothing on par with Traveller.

The closest thing I've seen to something like that for a Fantasy game would be those backstory tables in Xanathar for 5e and I think the Witcher RPG had something similar.

I'd pay money for a decent lifepath system to give backgrounds to experienced dudes.

>> No.77766699

Almost forgot that 2D20 Conan has a lifepath system that's pretty good and given Hyboria as a setting it's very easy to port to a typical mid to low fantasy setting that you use for your typical OSR game.

>> No.77766997

No, take them seriously but don't be a sperg about it. It is a hobby, not a job. Having fun and spending time with your friends, creating something unique and beautiful that can fill your heart with wonder. This IMO is more important than endlessly arguing about stat modifier going to +2 or +5 like some 5e fag. At the end of the day, it is same difference. OSR is about creative problem solving and challenging the player, something most modern systems have forgotten. Falling into the pitfall of endless skill checks.

>> No.77767098

I think the thing that's upsetting them is that they disagree on what makes OSR effective, the actual procedure to play (not in terms of specific stats or whatever, timekeeping and encumbrance are the core of oldschool play) is an important part of it for a lot of people here and you're basically saying 'no, that's retarded'.

>> No.77767178

Right. But rulesets are built with certain assumptions in mind. OSR rules organically create challenges for the players just by following them as you play.

I actually think the better PBTA games are a good example of a similar philosophy-- not with the same design goals, of course-- in that the rules are designed specifically to produce the kind of gameplay that the players and GM signed up for by choosing that game. On the whole, I think games that do this are better than ones that don't.

You can play OSR "style" despite any ruleset, but if you play OSR as the rules intend, you'll play OSR style *because* of the ruleset. IMO it's good not to have to fight the system you're using.

>> No.77767450

Glad to help; glad to hear you're running a game! Make sure to post us a session report after!

>> No.77767494

Will do! I might actually blog session reports (after being careful to excise any spoilers so players don't see them).

Game is set in the Known World because I'm weirdly obsessed with it right now.

>> No.77767767

Well said Anon. You can be force any game into any rule set but you will find yourself fighting the system at times. I suppose with enough hand waving and fudging any rule system works but then you aren’t actually using the rules.

>> No.77767793

I accept your apology.

>> No.77767830

>Knock Magazine
The most cucked sjw virtue signaling I’ve seen in a product that doesn’t bill itself as sjw. Women and minorities aren’t desperately trying to break into old school
Gaming and the evil white cishet frogs are keeping them out. What a pathetic straw man.

>> No.77767902

What the fuck is the M in BIMPOC?

>> No.77767942

It refers to Masters.

>> No.77767995

Best joke in the thread.

>> No.77768107


>> No.77768120

I stole it from a few threads back.

>> No.77768127

Seems like a way to cut out Asians.

>> No.77768134

>use picrelated for horrid creations of a lonely Banshee
>human sized
>special feature: Speech
>Special Attack: Intelligence Drain. Delievery: Touch
Holy crap I got a punching tall duck stealing the vocabulary of its victims through punching the fuck out if them. I love this shit.

>> No.77768317

Make him really friendly and considerate... but if you say a word he doesn't know, he'll stop and his demeanor changes.


You repeat yourself. He sighs.

"Terribly sorry about this."

Then he beats you to death with his bare... hand-wing-things.

>> No.77768669

So it is a misunderstanding. I also feel things like resource management and time keeping, dungeon turns or "living world" as I call it to be a core part of my GMing style. But they are completely system agnostic. You can do even in 5e if you want or don't do it in ADnD.

>> No.77768701

I am glad you have calmed down fren.

>> No.77768825

Good point. I think I just took the "rulings not rules" part and extrapolated to maximize fun based on the campaign goals but steel keeping the OSR design framework. Most people I play with don't give two shits about the autistic mechanics of the system and just want to have fun. Playing a hard-core campaign is break from modern pandering systems.

>> No.77769206

punji sticks

>> No.77769231

After the divorce rape and having my children turned against me, my job and elf games are all I have left.

>> No.77769402

Jesus Christ man. Sorry ro hear this. And now I feel like shit for giving you grief...

>> No.77769457

>I do wish /osrg/ was a bit less hostile overall to anyone who doesn't want to play D&D
Hostile. From the Middle French "hostile," meaning "of or belonging to an enemy," from Latin "hostilis," same meaning.
Seems appropriate to me.

>> No.77769673

I tried to get my son to play D&D with me on my last custody weekend. He only wants to play Fortnite. He refused to play and went back to playing video games.

>> No.77769874

You do realize you can homebrew, right?

>> No.77770159

My kids are still toddlers. I hope we can teach them to play RPGs with us early. I do a lot of one on ones with my wife. We don't have TV and we read books out loud every night after dinner. But seeing how fucked up my friend's kids are from video games it breaks my heart. 18yo and literally has only memes and Fortnite/pupg in his head. No books. Not even basic cape flicks. Just memes... This is some scary shit.

>> No.77770207

Gatekeeping doesn't work.

>> No.77770231

My condolences

>> No.77770578

>roll 150 gold
>armour: none
>weapon: dagger
So I have 147 gp left. Anything else I should get that's for myself specifically before I throw the rest into a party pool for rations, rope, lanterns/oil, retainers, etc.?

>> No.77770610

Buy a shitload of oil bottles for flinging. Before you get any normal spells, you're gonna be flinging molotovs with the best of em

>> No.77770624

And daggers, he should get lots of daggers to throw as well. Everything before the encounter you use Sleep in and every encounter after you're gonna be throwing something.

>> No.77771354


t. david arneson

>> No.77771436


>> No.77771687

You have a really weird definition of what makes someone a loser.

>> No.77771744

B[ECM]IPOC pilled

>> No.77772042

Neither does prisons or fortifications or fences or even basic doors. What a crazy world we live in.

>> No.77772261

A mule.

>> No.77772525

Are you kidding me? Of course it works. These are people that need a safe space if you call them the wrong pronoun.

>> No.77772541

Lol well played sir

>> No.77772726

Theoretically could I use pic related with the 1e DMG and 1e monster manual?
I know I know heresy, but I genuinely want to know if I need the 2e DMG if I want to play the cleaner easier to use version of the game.

Thanks anons

>> No.77772790

You can mix-and-match anything from the TSR era without too much issue, the general thing people suggest is looking at 1e or other versions of the game for dungeon and hexcrawl procedures because that's an important part of the game that 2e starts to lose.

>> No.77772808

I own that, I completely forgot lol. Gonna reread that.

>> No.77772854

That's why I still want to use most of 1e, for me osr is all about procedures, and 1e has all of them.
I just like the way 2e handles thac0 and some of the classes (thief fighter and cleric come to mind)
It would ultimately be a shitbrew, but I want to make it work

>> No.77772892

>get btfo for being inconsitent blob of bullshit
>yOU muSt HAvE BRaIn PRoBlEMs
>WhaT KiND of LoOSeR CaRes ABoUt ThiNgS?
I hope you die in the near future.

>> No.77772925

Beyond the Wall is specifically osr with in depth lifepath group character generation.

>> No.77772929

I'd say you're doing nothing worse than people did at the time then, best of luck bud.

>> No.77772944

>At the end of the day, it is same difference.
Its not. Specific differences and context matter. You don't even run games anymore. Fuck off with your pretense of being the mature chill one.

>> No.77773414

New thread.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.