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77593165 No.77593165 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade - less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/75631028/#75663784

>Being called a FOE (False OSR Enthusiast)?
Report, hide, and ignore. Don't give those people (You)s.

Previous Thread:
>>77554935

Successes are fun to talk about but be honest: what are your great DMing / design screw-ups?

>> No.77593169

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d8 (dice+1d8 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Our OC gets archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com
Tag your post with [OC] to help archive anon find it, please.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a magic item
>6. Make a race or class
>7. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>8. Roll 2d8 and combine.

>> No.77593199

I got White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventures Game and B2 ready for my players, am I missing anything else? Is this a good intro for inexperienced players?

>> No.77593219

>>77593165
playing wizardry 1 with dungeon synth in the background is peak.

Anyone have any movies they source for OSR inspiration? I usually steal from pulp authors and such, but I was looking for something I could watch with my players to easily get the vibe across without beating them over the head with Hyperborea.

>> No.77593355

Rebloat:
>>77592795
Bracketed treasure types are the ones individual monsters carry with them, yes. Unintelligent creatures virtually never have these.

>> No.77593401

>>77593219
The Warrior and the Sorceress.

>> No.77593402

>>77593355
Cool thanks.

>> No.77593626

>>77593401
I'll check it out, thanks anon!

>> No.77593703

>>77593219
It's funny, but the Goblin Slayer Daikatana novel is basically a level-by-level playthrough of Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord. Yes, even the wireframe dungeon.

>> No.77593804

>>77593219
Conan the Destroyer should be on the list. While the thief is annoying, the rest of the party has pretty good chemistry together.

>> No.77593839

>>77593804
>While the thief is annoying
Not as annoying as the kid from Red Sonja, though.

>> No.77594000

>>77593839
On the bright side, both have great soundtracks.

But I was watching "Wizards of the Lost Kingdom" I & II a few nights ago, and boy, have I seen better Corman fantasy flicks.

>> No.77594006

Why is ose/bx essentials spread out over so many different but similar sounding books? What do I need to actually run this game

>> No.77594036

>>77594006
Just the Rules Tome will be enough

>> No.77594480

>>77593165
>what are your great DMing / design screw-ups?
First oneshot I ran, should have started the party in front of the dungeon. Starting them off in the nearby city led to IRL hours of faffing about before they actually got there. Second time, same adventure, I still hadn't learned my lesson. It was slightly better, but again a lot of faffing about.

One other adventure I had this pan for the players to follow marks in the landscape along their way to a mystical site. But I fucked up presenting the marks, so I had to keep guiding them to where the adventure was.

>> No.77594502

>>77593703
>Goblin Slayer Daikatana novel
I been your pardon?

>> No.77594629

>>77594006
It was originally released in a segmented form. Then they compiled it into a single book, but still had the segments for sale. Then they released segmented supplements.

Basically you want the rules tome if you want all the core, unless you like being able to flip through different books at once. Even if you like the all-in-one core approach, you might want copies of the magic book for the mages and clerics in the party, but that's optional.

>> No.77594640

>>77594502
It's a spin-off of Goblin Slayer, set back in the time when the Sword Maiden was still an adventurer.

>> No.77594722

Reading survival horror manga always gets me in the mood for dungeon-delving.
How do you feel about random tremors suddenly blocking/unblocking certain routes?

>> No.77595421

>>77594629
My thought procees is that you should give the player's rules tome to the players and the full rules tome to yourself. The players have their own rules tome then, while you have the version of it with the monsters and the treasure.

>> No.77595496

>>77593169
>Tag your post with [OC] to help archive anon find it, please.
Where can one look at what he's archived?

>> No.77595582

>>77595496
Literally the sentence above what you quoted.
He's on break currently, however. Hopefully it doesn't become a permanent one.

>> No.77595738

>>77593219
The 13th Warrior ended with a no-shit dungeoncrawl.

>> No.77595790
File: 645 KB, 1443x2048, daikatana.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77595790

>>77594502
Yes, that's actually the name. The manga has had a lot of issues, like the original artist jumping ship after two short chapters.

>> No.77595814

>>77594722
Good! Better if they can be predicted and acted on as a strategic (long-term) or tactical (short term) element.

>> No.77595828

>>77595738
100% agree. The 13th Warrior is my go-to OSR movie. The book it's based on ("Eaters of the Dead") not so much, even though it's still good fun.

>> No.77595930

>>77593219
Flesh and Blood. It's about a company of scumbags who got burned by a noble and want their pay.

>> No.77595943

So hey I posted asking about treasure results for Giant Rats in the last thread. I still have qvestion:

If the treasure type/hoard class entry in the stat block is for a wilderness lair, is there a clear place to see how much treasure a monster should have in a dungeon?

I kinda think anon was not right about this, or alternatively that it doesn't make sense as a reading in a game where there *is* no wilderness (I'm running a megadungeon campaign).

>> No.77595985

>>77594722
Cool, I would add that to the random encounter list instead of only monsters. Encounter distance could even determine which section of dungeon collapses or opens up.

>> No.77596534

>>77595943
While rolling the dungeon, include Treasure with Monsters on results of Monsters & Treasure.
If you'd like to, put lairs in the megadungeon, then roll for their treasure appropriately.

>> No.77596582

>>77594722
Mixed feelings. How are the blocked routs being determined? How are the tremors being determined? The tremors being part of the random encounter table could be viable, basically turning that room into a save vs parallelization/petrification to avoid the cave in and cutting off a random doorway. But it could end up making big chunks of your dungeon not viable or trap the party at random. Not sure if I'd do that or not. While it could end up with interesting results, it could also just straight up make the team starve to death if there aren't alternative exists.

>> No.77596636

>>77593165
>dm screwup
Not including enough torches and rations in the random starting inventory the first time I ran a dungeon. It worked out, but resulted in a trip back to town much sooner than I had thought it would and was sort of annoying.
I also pussed out and didn't do death at 0hp for two new players. This was a mistake, I should have just let their characters die and got them to make new ones.

>> No.77596662

explain why I should play OSR instead of the much better 5E DND

>> No.77596739

>>77596662
You shouldn't. Please stay in your retard containment pen.

>> No.77597794
File: 179 KB, 525x437, tumblr_3d2e9497ff8a442aaaa082de229e2469_4b91e729_540.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77597794

I worry my online open table is dying. What should I do? What can I do? Was any anon in a similiar position to tell of their experience handling this dilemma?

Possible steps:
>more people.
>different adventure (small break from current).
>directly go to inactive users and talk to them to see what's the problem.

>> No.77597799

/osrg/, how have your gaming habits changed since Covid came around? Do you still get to play as often as you did? Do you get to play more often?

It was already kind of difficult for me to find players, but now it's basically impossible.

>> No.77597917

>>77596739
>5E is simplistic meme
NOOO YOU NEED TO HECKING DO PAGES OF MATH OR ELSE ITS NOT A REAL RPG

>> No.77598018

>>77596662
给我钱 我會向你解釋

>> No.77598050

>>77598018
>Give me money and I will explain to you
Ha lol. no

>> No.77598230

Rolled 6 (1d8)

Alright boys, I've finally managed to decide what system to use when it'll be my turn DMing in my group. It's gonna be OSE with the Advanced Fantasy rules (along with a couple houserules). The party is complosed entirely of 5E converts (and one dude that has also played 3.5), so I'm looking for a starting adventure that will help get them get accustomed to the way things work without overwhelming them. Any suggestions?
Also, rollan.

>> No.77598243

Id like to create a dungeon but im having some problem choosing a general theme so I can just start mapping it

I thought about making an elven ruined city, now infested by a brood of spiders and their mother

>> No.77598244

>>77597799
only played with my housemates but now im back at home so play with the parents now
want to try playing online with my mates but haven't been able to wrap my head around roll20 yet

>> No.77598764

>>77598230
[OC]
Class : Alchemist
HD : 1d4
THACO: Non-martial (as magic-user)
Saves: Non-martial (as magic-user)
Proficiencies: daggers, staves, slings, leather armor
Alchemical Knowledge: the alchemist is able to identify potions, poisons and magical substances (eg vanishing powder), as well as identify the signs of their effects (eg can tell that the schorch marks on the wall were caused by alchemist's fire). This happens on a 3-in-6 at first level, with the chance increasing by one every two levels (4-6 at 3rd, 5-6 at 5th). From level 7 onwards, an alchemist can always correctly identify a potion or substance, but the GM might still call for a check in the case of extremely rare substances (4-in-6 chance).
Create Potion: from 2nd level, alchemists are able of creating potions, poisons and certain magical substances. Potions and substances created by an alchemist can heal or deal 1d8+Alchemist Level damage for every two levels in the alchemist class, and potions that apply modifiers to characteristics are limited to one point for every three levels in the alchemist class (rounded to the first whole nimber). Creating a potion costs 250gp for each die of damage healed/dealt, or 300gp for each modifier point. Potions with specific effects, such as invisibility or resistance to cold/heat, have prices based on the rarity of their ingredients (GM's decision), but start from 500gp. Creating a potion takes 1 hour for each die of damage healed/dealt, 2 hours for each modifier point, or 3 to 5 hours for potions with predefined effects.
Resistance to substances: from 3rd level, alchemists have a +1 modifier to their saving throws against effects caused by potions or other substances. At 6th level, this modifier turns into a +2. At 9th level, this modifier turns into a +3.
(continues)

>> No.77598775

Best way to make the OSE fighter an appealing choice and competitive with the dwarf?

>> No.77598776

>>77598764
(continued)
Laboratory: At 9th level, an alchemist can estabilish a laboratory. The laboratory can be located in a city or in an isolated location. Estabilishing a laboratory also attracts 2d6 apprentice alchemists of 1st or 2nd level. Estabilishing a laboratory lowers the cost of creating potions by 1/3, as most precursor substances and some common ingredients can be produced directly instead of being bought. At the discretion of the GM, it can also be used as a source of passive income.

>> No.77598823

>>77598775
Give him more options for hitting things. OSE AF's rules for charging and parrying come to mind, as well as ACKS's rules for cleaving and pushing enemies back. There's also an houserule in one of the OSE houserule files that get passed around here that gives the fighter more attacks as he levels up (3 attacks every two rounds at 5th level and 2 attacks every round at 8th level if I'm not mistaken)

>> No.77599019 [SPOILER] 
File: 149 KB, 540x1413, 1613647002622.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77599019

>>77593165
Won, lost, who cares... all that matters Is I had fun with THE GAME

>> No.77599053

>>77599019
You motherfucker’

>> No.77599158

>>77598243

Standing deep in the heart of a black forest, an ancient elven civilization became ruined, how and why, help /osrg/

>> No.77599332

>>77599158
A controversial new variant of the archmages' favourite game was developed, and the resulting factionalisation spawned a magical war that devastated the area. Legend has it there is still a small number of ancient elf-liches bickering over how far the orc clubsmen should be able to move.

>> No.77599745
File: 126 KB, 1171x460, Old-School Essentials Book Breakdown.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77599745

>>77594006
>>77594036
>>77594629
>>77595421
>ose/bx essentials spread out over so many different but similar sounding books
I found the pic attached last fall. Is it still accurate, have more books been released since then?

>> No.77599856

>>77594640
>>77595790
I'm so disappointed it has nothing to do with the video game.

>> No.77599887

Rebumping my question from last thread. Someone mentionned Undermountain but I know nothing about it:
> Anybody ran a campaign where the megadungeon is IN the starting town? Diablo style? Is it weird or is it good? I'm still planning on having a wilderness around, but I feel it would simplify things a lot. I'm asking because in my current game (2+years OD&D campaign) players have to travel to get to the megadungeon and I feel sometimes it bugs down thing for no reasons and it doesn't encourage them to get there in the first place since they can just travel to other places too for the same risks.

>> No.77599924
File: 827 KB, 1000x1294, Zenopus Map - Redrawn by Jasper.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77599924

>>77598230
>I'm looking for a starting adventure that will help get them get accustomed to the way things work without overwhelming them.
Sample dungeon from Holmes Basic. If it flies you can expand it with your own levels or include hooks to B4.
There is a really good article about the dungeon at fenorc.co.uk/home/legacy-of-zenopus and zenopusarchives.blogspot has a some cool enhancements like "d12 Hauntings in the Dungeon of Zenopus."

>> No.77600083

>>77593199
Good work anon, this is exactly what I would use to introduce players to the oldschool.
>>77594480
>Starting them off in the nearby city led to IRL hours of faffing about before they actually got there.
One of my players thinks Matt Mercer is the best gm evar, and yet he will text me all week excited about our OSR game. It's definitely possible to have players who enjoy two different types of games.
>>77593165
>tq: what are your great DMing / design screw-ups?
Not adding enough ways to get to the next level in the dungeon. In megadungeons or any multi-session/multi-level dungeon, the grog verdict I've heard is to allow easy access to the lower levels from the entrance. This gives low-level parties the opportunity to go deeper for high risk/high reward. It also lets experienced parties get to where they left off last session more quickly.

>> No.77600438

>>77599745
its updated, the last thing they released like 2 weeks ago were the players and referee's tome

>> No.77600601

>>77599887
I don't see why it couldn't happen, though I feel a megadungeon entrance in a starting town would need a good reason for the populace to stay there. Maybe the entrance is on the outskirts of town and cordoned off by the local lord's men in full harness, so players would have to sneak by or obtain permission to enter. It could also be an entire underground city, or an old mausoleum that spans farther than anyone can remember. As long as it makes relative sense for townsfolk to stay in a place where baddies can potentially march up and raid the village, I feel it's perfectly doable.

>> No.77600689

>>77599887
It's a great premise. I'm working on something like that myself.

Questions you may want to answer
>why doesn't everyone know about the dungeon
>if there's big baddies deep under the city, how is the city still livable
>what disasters might befall the city if the baddies are disturbed

The Mazirian's Garden blog describes a cool home campaign where the 'dungeon' is actually an alternate reality entered via a magic portal at the back of a pub in a relatively mundane medieval fantasy city.

>> No.77600726

>>77597917
This is a remarkable troll post.
>5e is so much simpler than OSR because it does not have the outdated and inscrutable concept of THAC0! I shall leave you fools to your old, overly complicated games and return to 5e, a game where it is possible, through a clever selection of ability score placements, feat selections, multiclass levels, and other character-building features, I am able to maximize my DPR and thereby possibly make it so that the numerous low-stakes combat encounters I shall surely overcome, which are inevitable thanks to the lack of reaction rolls, and interminable thanks to hp bloat and the lack of morale rules, maybe won't last hours upon hours each and put my fellow 5e players to sleep.

>> No.77600730

>>77599019
“A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

>> No.77601318

>>77599019
there is no game.

>> No.77601492

Okay so let me see if I'm grasping ad&d initiative

Both sides check for surprise

Surprise segments happen, people who aren't surprised act in these segments
Both sides declare intent
Both sides roll a d6, higher goes first starting on the segment the loser rolled (IE if rolls are 6 and 4, 6 wins and starts in segment 4, which gives them 2 segments before the losers can start to act)
Missiles and spells are first followed by movement and melee.

On tied initiative attacks are judged by weapon speed.

Am I close?

>> No.77601640

>>77597917
>no punctuation change my mind meme
>can't into reading comprehension
You fail to understand because you're retarded. You will be retarded regardless of what game you play, if you play at all. I have no interest in convincing you to play osr. You're obnoxious enough its worth while to discourage you, simply so you go be retarded somewhere else.

>> No.77601702

>>77598230
Pick one of these that seems most appealing.
>>77598243
Map the dungeon first, roughly key the rooms, then put together why its a dungeon, then go back and tie things together. Keep a few of your ideas as set-piece encounters but don't overbuild conceptually.

>> No.77601707

>>77600689
>>77600601
My guess would be that it's in the same hex but not in the village itself. Just so that you don't have to actually travel or anything. Having local lord men guarding it is good idea. My idea for "why no one knows about it" would be that it's brand newly discovered and the party was traveling through the place at the same time. A convenient "right place right time" thing. I play open table/west marches campagin, so once its started it's good I don't need to care about it anyway since there WILL be more adventurer showing up and going in (more players).

>> No.77601759

>>77601492
Yes that’s pretty much BtB

>> No.77601764
File: 555 KB, 727x930, 27621806-EAC0-47B2-AAD5-A14A2121B6AB.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77601764

Our boy, Prince of Nothing, did it again. Evocative, WRITTEN TO BE PLAYED NOT READ, full of content.
Go buy it. We need to support these creators, they’re not many left.

>> No.77601778

>>77601492
Can you fire missiles when your PC is engaged in melee by a monster?

>> No.77601882

>>77601778
You'd get stabbed in the face for doing it, if they are facing you. This, however, only moves their attack before yours in initiative, it is not an extra attack on top of their regular routine.

>> No.77601889

>>77593199
What does b2 stand for ? is that like BX ? still want my friends to get into oldschool thats why I would love to know :)

>> No.77601912

>>77601882
Yes but, RAW, what is preventing someone from firing a missile, if melee is resolved after missile attacks?

>> No.77601925

>>77601764
Yeah, I usually fucking despise modules, but this one is actually Breddy Gud™.

>> No.77601932

>>77601889
Dungeon Module B2: The Keep on the Borderlands

>> No.77601948

>>77601889
Here, have a spoonful, newfriend:
https://acaeum.com/ddindexes/modpages/b1.html

>> No.77602030

>>77601932
>>77601948

and white box is the light version of sword and wizardry right ? , thanks anons

>> No.77602067

>>77601912
Nothing I suppose, especially given the second volley that usually occurs in the last 4 segments of combat.

>> No.77602187

My biggest failure (recently) was running the infinite tower one page dungeon as written, and wiping the party with a lich. I tried to telegraph that it was in there by talking about a strong necromantic aura, but it just made them more curious.

>> No.77602295

>>77602187
>Strong aura of magic death
"We should definitely check that shit out"
>Dies

Whoowhee buddy. It's not your fault, it's yo daddy's.

>> No.77602324

>>77602187
What is this "infinite tower one page dungeon" you speak of my friend? I'm interested in hearing more.

>> No.77602396
File: 891 KB, 4960x3508, distant towers treasures background.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77602396

What did you work on today?

>> No.77602404

>>77602295
>Something interesting! We should check that out because this is D&D and we turned up to do interesting things.
>Oh no we all died.
>Serves you right for wanting to do interesting things. You should have fled this antidungeon.

>> No.77602511

>>77597794
Accept death

>> No.77602562
File: 454 KB, 1377x1782, TheInfiniteTower.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77602562

>>77602324
This. It went pretty well until it didn't.lol

>>77602404
My thoughts too. I even knew ahead of time that it was there, but decided it was so unlikely they would fight it that I didn't need a contingency plan. Womp Womp.

>> No.77602586

>>77602404
>>77602562
To clarify the main 'issue' I see is that if the players go down they will qickly come to the empty layers, and with some lucky encounter rolls (which my party got) they are waaaaay to deep before they can react.

>> No.77602712

>>77593165
Wizardryl? Sounds like some kind of benadryl that cures magical colds or something idk

>> No.77602828

>>77583023
>Is there a real reason for not considering 2e as OSR?
>Like, its really really similar to 1e but more streamlined and the bad rules can be dropped

2e is OSR if you take the simple view that D&D can be divided into two eras, TSR and WotC, and TSR is the old-school one. It's a perfectly arguable and defensible position to take, because 2e is at the very least compatible with old-school D&D.
But it also misses the fact that D&D can be divided into smaller, overlapping eras, such as the "combat as sport" era (5e and 4e), the "char-op" era (4e and 3e), the "options and expansions" era (3e and 2e), the "real RPGs have skill systems and storylines" era (2e and late 1e), and the old-school era (early 1e and 0e).
This is why most OSR fans either reject or ignore 2e and late 1e (UA, OA, DSG, WSG): the adventures, the supplements, the non-weapon proficiencies, and the kits don't jive with the old-school era. At best, 2e material is a vast trove of minable content for 1e-compatible house rules (that's how I use it). At worst, it's little different from the WotC editions descended from it. (And when people say "5e feels like 2e," this is what they mean.)

I don't want to shit up the thread with controversy, but I feel like this needs to be explained to the newcomers from time to time.

>> No.77602877

>>77594036
>>77594629
Thanks lads. on that note, how compatible is the ose advanced stuff with classic?

>> No.77602961

>>77597799
I play more now. Once it was online or nothing, my group really leaned into it and I've had the steadiest game in a long time. Still prefer live, though.

>> No.77603069

>>77595582
Oh! I was about to ask what happened to him, thanks anon!

>> No.77603373

>>77597799
I play more now, since there's less bullshit involved in getting people to show up to an online game. DESU, I've refined my verbal technique as DM a lot, both for description and for theater-of-the-mind combat elements and interaction descriptions, since previously I leaned a lot into body language and physical gestures to mime stuff, and I can't do that as easily now.

I look forward to in-person games again, and I think I'll be a better DM for practicing the craft under these godawful pandemic limitations. Plague sucks.

>> No.77603474

>>77599158
Fuck off, thoughtsfag.

>> No.77603509

>>77602828
This is a good post and I endorse it.

>> No.77603537

What's a good money sink for players at low levels? Or should I just let them save up for strongholds when they hit level 9+

>> No.77603789

>>77603537
Retainers, taxes, broken gear (crowbar, hammer, pick, rotted rope etc), inn fees, NPC clerical healing.

>> No.77603983
File: 369 KB, 1224x952, recruit.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77603983

>>77597794
I am blessed with a core of 1-2 dedicated friends at my online table, so to me the answer has always been more people to 'fill up' to a decent group size. Some of those players even became new friends of mine.

>> No.77604002

>>77603537
What>>77603789 said. I also suggest carousing from ACKS because it's funny and can provide adventure hooks.

>> No.77604127

>>77603537
Also conversion fees, identification fees, sage knowledge, scribing fees for found scrolls.
Your players should be shilling out one fourth to one half of their treasure each dive to pay for shit.
If they are getting too fat, you can always throw an ooze or rust monster their way to disintegrate their gear, though I would do this very sparingly because player agency and meaningful decisions are pillars of OSR play.

>> No.77604230
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77604230

>>77603537
Think in terms of horizontal progression (more options) than vertical progression (more power to do the same things they already do).

I love giving my players the chance to invest in new services--blacksmiths that can make weirder stuff, dubious alchemists, contacts, more space at the inn to produce more hireling options, paying cash to entice more merchants to show up who will pay extra bonus top-dollar for extremely specific kinds of treasure...

Anything that converts cash into more chances to make interesting choices is generally going to do well for you. Go out of your way to come up ways your game and world can change--at least locally--based on how players dispose of treasure.

Hell, one of my players had their PC, a former bandit, get blind drunk and dump a bunch of treasure in the wilderness as a sacrifice to the god of good fortune...and why the hell *shouldn't* that lead to a priest of that god showing up soon-ish? And so forth.

>> No.77604233

>>77601764
Shut THE fuck up Bryce

>> No.77604307

>>77604233
It's interesting how there's this cluster of the OSR that's Melan, Bryce, and Prince, just sort of doing their own thing. Not as edgy as Raggi and Venger, but edge-adjacent.

>> No.77604324

>>77603983
Thank you anon. I really like this meme, it made me happy. I am to pessimistic and panic too easily.

>> No.77604361

>>77604307
Bryce isn't publishing though. His only two modules can best be described as "safe". Reviews without play-experience are also not the best, espescially when they turn into a horrid ramble of how everything about it is bad.
I wouldn't be surprised if someone was scared to publish because of Bryce.

I would put Venger into their crew honestly. He and Prince are buddies, the latter being a consultant on the original Cha'alt.

>> No.77604379

>>77601764
>Our boy, Prince of Nothing
Yeah I’m not doing pen names.

>> No.77604447

>>77604361
Yeah, but didn't Venger more-or-less try begging/paying everyone to participate until Prince agreed? It's not really a collab if one person is being bribed. It's prostitution.
>I wouldn't be surprised if someone was scared to publish because of Bryce.
Publish and be damned.

>> No.77604585

>>77604361
I wouldn't put Venger there, in that he's both plenty loud and nowhere near as good.

>>77604379
What does this even mean? You won't buy a book because the real name isn't on the cover?

>> No.77604730

Does anyone have a list of what specifically was cut in the transition from the 1st to the 2nd ed DMG? Not looking down to the scale of individual magic items or anything, but sections (e.g. artifacts are gone).

>> No.77604802

>>77604585
Venger isn't as good as the other two in terms of penmanship but shit, I like Cha'alt and the Purple Islands. If you throw everything you can think of to the wall something sticks eventually. More than Castle Xyntilian.

>> No.77604829

>>77604730
All of Gygax's meandering yet insightful prose

>> No.77605016

>>77594480
>One other adventure I had this pan for the players to follow marks in the landscape along their way to a mystical site. But I fucked up presenting the marks, so I had to keep guiding them to where the adventure was.
I'm gonna be honest, I don't think this was a "you" fuckup, at least not in terms of implementing it wrong. This problem is just inherent in trying to run plot/railroad adventures; you had an intention for where you wanted them to go (to *the*, not an, adventure) and then there was a problem. The exact same hints would most likely never have been a problem in a sandbox because they could just think about it between sessions, pick up where they left off, look more carefully later etc. and then you, too, would be able to prepare and reflect on flaws in your presentation between sessions.

TL;DR, don't feel bad about this, you tried to do something that's basically impossible and you blew it, nothing odd about that.

>> No.77605017

So I'm running my party through a necromancers lair, and I have a couple of wraiths in there. They've never encountered anything that has level draining attacks before so how can I get across the amount of danger without outright telling them?

>> No.77605037

>>77604730
I don't have it myself but I seem to remember an anon actually preparing a document like this listing every type of rule and procedure lost from the D&D in the 1e–>2e move.

>> No.77605053

>>77604233
Shut your own fag mouth up, Brycehater.

>> No.77605056

>>77605017
You have a wraith level drain them.

>> No.77605098

>>77603983
>hates flakers
>recruits them anyway
Don't do me like this you motherfucker

>> No.77605142

>>77605037
Heh, I'm the one who made that (though I took a bunch of it from earlier lists). But I'm not so much looking for rules changes as what was outright dropped / left out, beyond the general "the flavour is all gone" posts that everyone makes.

Might have to do it myself, but I'm hoping someone got around to it in the past 20 years or so.

>> No.77605220

>>77605017
Have them talk with a former adventurer who got knocked back to 0-level and retired, a shell of his former self. Have them find a journal written in a script that turns shaky and broken describing an encounter gone awry with a vengeful spirit. Haunt their nights with dreams and portents of doom. Breadcrumb, man.

>>77605056
>hurrdurr gotcha

>> No.77605295

>>77605056
>>77605220

I suppose either could work lol. We're all still new to osr so I keep wanting to be nice and keep forgetting to just let the game play itself out. They've already entered the dungeon but only made it through 2 rooms so I'll just put some kind of journal or something in the next room over.

>> No.77605422
File: 1.70 MB, 1251x1661, 1611338149998.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77605422

Does anyone have that OSR Rules image? The one that's like, "This is how I run the game, if you don't like it, TOUGH SHIT"

>> No.77605515

>>77605017
Seeing a wraith suck the life out of a 0 level henchperson with just a touch ought to scare the piss out of them.

I'm pretty soft on players though. Don't get to play often, so casually blasting off levels with an attack roll just isn't that cool.

>>77602396
Been picking away at an alternate magic system that's sprawling enough it feels like it should be it's own game, in the vein of ars magica.

>> No.77605579

>>77601764
Should I get the OSE version or the LL version? Its nice that it has versions for both but I don't play either game and am too lazy to figure out which one will be easier for me to use.

>> No.77605920

>>77605515
>I'm pretty soft on players though
I don't know if being cautious with level drain is soft. I don't use it at all and I'm not a soft DM. I think it's a poorly thought out rule that requires meta knowledge to evoke fear. It's one of the things I feel 3e fixed somewhat.
I like to use things like ability damage, premature aging, and level drain after the fact. Maybe it's just my style of DMing but, "Remember all that hard and sometimes tedious work of the last three sessions? Yeah, well fuck you." is unfun. Restoration is way out of reach of even mid-level parties and quite frankly having a bunch of PCs get drastically reduced in levels throws off the pace of the game.

>> No.77606075

>>77605422
you just know

>> No.77606094

>>77605579
the games are 95% similar, LL just uses AD&D-style race and class. OSE is literally just B/X with no changes.

>> No.77606245

>>77606075
indeed

>> No.77606328 [SPOILER] 
File: 34 KB, 873x483, 1613680853837.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77606328

>>77605220
>hurrdurr gotcha
I mean, making the players PLAY and internalize the knowledge is better than an NPC soliloquy, so yeah. Also, you're a retard.

>>77605422
Mayhaps it is pic related.

>> No.77606359

>>77606094
>LL just uses AD&D-style race and class
I wasn't aware Elf and Dwarf were AD&D classes

>OSE is literally just B/X with no changes.
I wasn't aware B/X had THAC0

>> No.77606475

>>77606328
>HARDCORE MANIFESTO
lol

>> No.77606744

>>77606328
That's not the exact one that I remember, but it's pretty close. GOOD SHIT

>> No.77606765

>>77606328
iron laws of gaming is a well crafted shitpost
why does it always get idiot's panties in a bunch?

>> No.77606878

What are some interesting ways to use a Gelatinous Cube?

>> No.77606920
File: 570 KB, 1166x2500, felipe-fesbra-escobar-hermit-slime-chart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77606920

>>77606878
The classic: transparent, blocks a hallway the PCs want to run down (for some reason).
At the bottom of a pit trap.
Drops out of a bucket, splitting the party.
In a room without gravity.
Used as a mount by goblins in acid-resistant suits.

>> No.77607133

Rolled 7 (1d8)

>>77593169

>> No.77607480

>>77606878
Waste disposal pit. Don’t fall in!

>> No.77607586

>>77604585
>What does this even mean? You won't buy a book because the real name isn't on the cover?
It means I generally don’t interact or patronize people hiding behind stupid made up screen names rather than using their own name. Referring to yourself by your secret identity is a mark of the arthaus nuOSR hipsters and the insane.

>> No.77607709

>>77607586
Be fair, he's Dutch so his real name is far too embarrassing to use.

>> No.77607723

>>77607586
>the OSR is full of arthaus nuOSR hipsters and the insane.
>Therefore, I should give these people access to my full name and identity.
>As a bonus, all employers, romantic partners, and casual acquaintances can read about my opinions on lizard tits.
>Wisdom.
Nice work anon.

>> No.77607754

>>77606359
>I wasn't aware B/X had THAC0
TIS AN OPTIONAL RULE, YOU BLITHERING FOOL

>> No.77607768
File: 48 KB, 427x393, 185agc4d7sw4ijpg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77607768

>https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/202537/Dungeon-Grappling
has anyone read this? Is it good/worth buying?
I'm interested in it after reading the introduction and first page of rules but $10 is still a lot to drop on 50+ pages of grappling stuff.

>> No.77607771

>>77607723
The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

>> No.77607792

>>77607771
Blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of δικαιοσύνη, anon.

>> No.77607793

>>77607768
I don’t need another layer of complexity in a grappling system. Do you need one? It’s really going to depend on how important unarmed combat is in your game. I’ve only used it once and it was elegant but I still found it superfluous.

>> No.77607816

>>77606328
You're a shit DM. Ask me how I know.

>> No.77607855

>>77607723
Unless you are writing smut like Venger Santis I don’t think your boss is going to care. My published content has my legal name on it. No one cares.

>> No.77607868

>>77607855
Depends on what you do, what you write, and how seriously you'd like to be taken.

>> No.77607981

>>77607855
>I just draw a silly comic with a cartoon frog. Who could ever take offense at that.
>I just write a blog about wonky science subjects and internet subcultures, it's not like the NYT is going to write a hitpiece about something like that
It's not 1998 anymore.

>> No.77608004

>>77607754
OSEething lmao

>> No.77608032

>>77607981
Scott's emails going "maybe we can have a little bit of eugenics, as a treat" didn't help. Though I don't think /tg/ is the right audience.

>> No.77608058

>>77607981
So if we hide we win?

>> No.77608068

>>77607793
>Do you need one? It’s really going to depend on how important unarmed combat is in your game.
Well, I don't really use any rules for grappling at the moment, so they're not; but I imagine that including some good rules would make them more important in a way that might lead to a better game, for some of the reasons included in the introduction (monsters that can actually fight like monsters struck me as particularly appealing). But the length makes it seem too long to be an "elegant" system and I would worry about it just eating the whole game.
>I’ve only used it once and it was elegant but I still found it superfluous.
Do you mean the rules I'm talking about or just grappling rules in general?

>> No.77608269

>>77608058
I suggest managing your risk even if your content is wholly inoffensive. Lots of content creators are loosely pseudonymous even if they go to cons under their real name, if for no other reason than to avoid some prankster putting in a phony complaint to their wagie job.

>> No.77608431
File: 64 KB, 680x680, 1486096531351.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77608431

>>77606328
That is a log alright, a log of shit.

>> No.77608739

>>77593165
DM screw up is not killing my players as often as I should. I'm ashamed to be such a softie...

>> No.77609181

>>77608004
YOU'VE NOT PROVEN ME WRONG, YOU ABSOLUTE MONG

>> No.77609220

B - Dungeon delving
E - Wilderness exploration and traveling the world
C - ????
M - ????
I - Immortal politics, cult building and saving the universe
Ok, so what was supposed to happen at the Companion and Master levels? When does ruling a domain kick in, in particular?

>> No.77609441

Has anyone played in a game where the world was established by the characters of other players? As in, the baron is some guys retired fighting-man turned npc for example.

>> No.77609533

How do you determine whether or not the party gets lost while traveling in the wilderness? There's no related skill it anything, is it just a Game discretion sort of thing or did you house rule a mechanic? I was of having a navigation percentage at 5% per point of wisdom, and a penalty if you're traveling without a compass of maybe 30-40%

>> No.77609669

>>77609220
C and M further explore managing a domain and going to war, along with dealing with matters of kingdom/continental implications. This is where things can get 5eish in terms of assumed scope.

>> No.77609722

>>77609533
Depending on your system of choice it goes over this. Rolling a d6 and the result of getting lost is also determined by terrain. Like a 1-3 on a d6 while in the forest means you'll get lost and go to a random direction of the dm's choosing/rolling.

>> No.77609777

>>77608739
As long as the players are playing smart and you are refereeing as neutrally as possible, I don't see any problem with this.
When players are throwing themselves into deathtraps and easily succeeding, that's when you should rework things.

>> No.77609854

>>77608269
You literally can't not piss people off, too. There's no way to please everyone and there are seriously mentally ill people on all sides. Definitely not worth the risk. Anon is retarded for begrudging people a pen name.

>> No.77609896

>>77609220
>B - Dungeon delving
>E - Wilderness exploration and traveling the world
>C - Warband leader
>M - Domain Lord
>I - Immortal politics, cult building and saving the universe
>>77609533
OD&D has all the rules for that. What edition are you playing? Otherwise, check out OSRSimulacrum anon system (write "simulacrum D&D hexcrawl" on google). He also comes in the thread from time to time you can probably ask him more details.

>> No.77609913

>>77607771
>>77608058
t. Anonymous on 4channel. Why don't you use a tripcode with your real name you fucking goofball?

>> No.77610000

>>77609722
>>77609896
Playing swords and wizardry but was looking at b/x. Found the section in both books, guess im just fucking blind. Thanks lol

>> No.77610146

>>77609896
I don't think it needs jerked off anymore around here, but OD&D is actually a pretty solid game.

>> No.77610281

>>77610146
As much as I like other editions on specific aspects, yes. Especially with regards to procedures (hexcrawl and dungeon exploration) I feel it's the most complete (although not the most clear).

>> No.77610906

>>77606765
If its a joke its got that classic problem of pretending to be retarded but then summoning an endless stream of retards who think they're in good company.

>> No.77611009
File: 325 KB, 1024x1136, 1461913833-io3f546-meowzywhale.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77611009

What's the closest thing to "fantasy Traveller" in OSR products? From what I've read it's structure seems quite endearing -- sandboxy, a ship as unifying device and a debt as motivating device. But I don't want retro sci-fi.

I heard nice things about UVG but it seems it has overly streamlined travel kinda one way road.

>> No.77611052

>>77611009
Sword of Cepheus is literally a port of Traveller, using the open source Cepheus system. It has a light trading system for silk road type adventures but can't vouch for that. Otherwise, it's well done.

>> No.77611118

>>77610281
I would say AD&D holds the world heavyweight belt for "most complete hardest to navigate"
It quadrupled the page count of od&d, but literally almost anything that could happen in a low-medium fantasy game is covered by the DMG.

>> No.77611127

>>77611009
You could always port the Suns of Gold rules to Worlds Without Number but the fact that trade goods are all in metric tons means that it's better for ship trading rather than overland trade. This combination needs an OSR wavecrawl setting to make it sing.

>> No.77611218
File: 74 KB, 850x400, 9FEDBCFE-81AF-4277-B3D0-4058D54938CC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77611218

>>77609777
Based
Maybe they could include a little bit more mild idiot bait to spice up the fun but really I think anon is doing pretty well as a game master

>> No.77611228
File: 53 KB, 318x449, spljmr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77611228

Why not just look into 2e Spelljammer? It's probably exactly what you're looking for.

>> No.77612204

>>77606328
>If the player knows it, the character knows it too.
>No, your Int 3 fighter cannot make guns
aren't these two sentences in contradiction? What if I know how to make guns, by that logic shouldn't my character know too?

>> No.77612313

>>77612204
The point is more about logical determinations rather than specialist knowledge. If you can figure out a solution to a problem, then you can do it, there's no question of what your character would do in that situation.
With that said, that particular set of rules are intentionally meant to be a little absurd. I wouldn't take them seriously.

>> No.77612601

>>77597799
I can't get my irl friends to play anymore, since I'm in New Jersey, which has become a totalitarian hellhole second only to New York and California. I have been able to join an online OSRIC game last week though, so that's good.

>> No.77612760

>>77593165
What video games would you say have an OSR feel to them? Aside from the Wizardry games, I mean. The more recognizable the better.

>> No.77612839

>>77593804
Do you need to watch Conan the Barbarian to watch this one?

>> No.77612849

>>77612760
The Bard's Tale and The Bard's Tale II.
Gold Box games, of course.
Ultima 4 and 6
Arx Fatalis for slightly more recent fare.

>> No.77612919

>>77612849
While those work well, I'm not arguing that point, I'd like something a bit more recognizable to z*omers who don't like rpgs. One of them would recognize Wizardry, but for the other two, the closest they came to an actual turn based rpg is Darkest Dungeon.

>> No.77612943

>>77612839
No, each is a standalone adventure, and apart from the recap at the beginning and Mako's wizard, no references are made to the first film.

>> No.77613001

>>77612849
Why do you exclude Ultima V? Too story driven?

>> No.77613250

>>77612601
Cali anon here. Still play in person. Just get friends who aren't cowards, bud.

>> No.77613386

>>77605579
Some weird editing differences, the fanatic Children of the Tree in LL version have Morale 12, but in OSE have Morale 4??

>> No.77613410

>>77613250
>making new friends
>during the pandemic
Easier said than done atm.

>> No.77613429

>>77605016
Thank you, anon. That does encourage me change it up and try it again in the future, over multiple sessions. It's been a few years, so maybe I can make it work next time.

>> No.77614103
File: 1.36 MB, 800x1105, AH Titan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77614103

>>77593165
I'm only asking this semi-snidely. Why should I bother with OSR style games? Why not play something like Titan and go for a real wargame?

>> No.77614179

>>77614103
Why should you bother with any game? I personally play it because I'm historically interested n Dungeons and Dragons and how it was originally played and intended. It's also nice to play the system(s) to their strengths with a variety of different takes and ideas from retroclones.

I'm sure people don't share my ideas and play OSR games for different reasons, but those are mine and I enjoy the games I run.

>> No.77614254

>>77614103
because it's not 5e
alternatively
for fun

>> No.77614452

>>77614103
It offers a unique play experience because it's literally what D&D was designed for, as opposed to the amorphous, directionless heroic fantasy simulator that it became. People tend to think of D&D as the most generic of RPGs, but early on it really had a niche and worked to exploit it, to interesting results. You may not like it, but you won't really say "oh, this again".

>> No.77614465

>>77614179
>It's also nice to play the system(s) to their strengths with a variety of different takes and ideas from retroclones.
But that's just it. The entire thrust of the OSR movement, as far as I can tell, has been to strip away narrative elements from games and turn it back into the more tactical waragameish exercise that were the first efforts into the genre. The "strengths" of an actual old-school game, or of the retroclones, are at best a halfassed thing.

I mean, yeah, if you want to do it out of legacy ideas, I guess that makes a bit of sense, but from a game design standpoint, the major distinction between a TTRPG that is "old school style" and a wargame is the inclusion of a GM/DM/referee/whatever you want to call him. And if you want the game solely to be about the tactics of the raid, of risk-reward calculations and how to best optimize a set of information, gear, and character abilities, there are MUCH better things out there than any game which includes a weird pseudo-player who gets to more or less arbitrarily set up challenges, rewards, penalties, and even the information available to the players.

>>77614254
I'm not asking why play OSR and not modern DnD. I'm asking why play OSR and not a wargame.

>> No.77614493

>>77614452
I missed you, but see my response to >>77614254. I'm not asking why play OSR as opposed to DnD 5e. I'm asking why play OSR and not a wargame. What is this "Unique play experience" that I won't find playing Hornet Leader or Titan or World in Flames?

>> No.77614596

>>77614493
I wasn't just referring to 5th but any edition past the 1st. In any case, it's such a weird question that I don't know how to respond: old-school/OSR games aren't wargames in any way really (unless you've broken out Chainmail or Battlesystem, which puts you in about 1% of such), so it's sort of like asking why play Dark Souls when I could play Clue instead, or why jump rope when I could go play paintball? The question is sort of nonsensical.

>> No.77614622

>>77614465
>more tactical
more strategic, really. 5e is extremely tactical.
>oh ya I'll bounce over here and if I Action Surge I can bop this one to break his spell and then bop that one and expend a Diddly Die to shove him into the wizard's Zone of Wibblewooble
If you mean "tactics" as in, like, troop movements, maybe, but to be honest the focus of most OSR D&D isn't anything like wargames because they're dungeon crawls not domain play.

>> No.77614647

>>77614465
>And if you want the game solely to be about the tactics of the raid, of risk-reward calculations and how to best optimize a set of information, gear, and character abilities, there are MUCH better things out there than any game which includes a weird pseudo-player who gets to more or less arbitrarily set up challenges, rewards, penalties, and even the information available to the players.
That's missing the point of the OSR, though. It's not about stripping away narrative or reducing RPGs back down to wargames. It's about playing to the strengths of what RPGs can really do when you don't try to shove them up their own ass. Narrative as emergent quality (rather than something the DM foreordains and then Houdinis into existence, or something that the players "author"). Roleplaying as straightforward "what would I do if I were in this fantastical place and situation, and had these abilities?", without worrying about deep immersion psychological method acting emotional bleed bullshit. Playing a game where you're not telling a story, you're experiencing a (simulated) ADVENTURE (because for the characters the stakes, the risks, the rewards, and the failures are real and honestly earned).
You can't have an adventure in a wargame -- and you can't really have one in a storygame for that matter.

>> No.77614667

>>77614465
I think you've probably gotten some misinformation. Early D&D was, for a time, considered a wargame and it has some obvious similarities, but the referee function came from wargames that were popular in the area D&D came from, and their style of play is probably quite unlike your preferred wargames. Articles discussing this style of play talk about having the idea of tearing down a barn and using the wood to make a bridge for crossing a river, and the referee deeming it viable and setting up how much time it would take - this is a very realistic thing to have happen in war, but there's no way you'd have a rule for that. That's the sort of spirit behind early D&D, not strategy and tactics in the crunchy sense.

>> No.77614700

>>77614596
>old-school/OSR games aren't wargames in any way really
If they're not wargames, they're incestuous cousins. Your classic OSR dungeon romp session usually features finding out about an adventure locale, doing some research and reconnaissance to best prepare for it, delving in, and then trying to maximize gain or seize some objective while minimizing risk. Along the way, things inevitably go wrong, and you adjust your plans on the fly to deal with that unexpected trap or an intelligence failure or someone unexpectedly fumbling what should have been an easy roll and compromising the entire party's position. Hopefully, at the end, you've succeeded and you divide your loot and garner your XP and use that extra power gained to hopefully go on to bigger and better things.

A mission of Hornet leader follows almost the exact same paradigm: Take your pick of several missions, with your freedom of choice constrained by your degree of intelligence. See what sorts of defenses are around the target. Take your pick of assets to best prepare for what you think you're going to be up against. Go to the site; find out how badly your intel was off the mark. Start trading shots with the defenses around the target, and hopefully succeed in eliminating it with a minimum of losses. At the end of the mission, award XP and do a few cleanup tasks.

About the only major difference I can see is that the rules and information of Hornet leader are completely spelled out and the enemy action is 100% procedural. In an OSR game, you've got a referee handling the other side of things. The comparison is a little weaker with quite a few other wargames, but the overall idea of attempting to maximize your position through a fog of tactical uncertainty and get the most gain for the least risk is the core gameplay mechanic in almost every wargame imaginable and is shared with the OSR RPG.

>> No.77614748

>>77614465
>there are MUCH better things out there than any game which includes a weird pseudo-player who gets to more or less arbitrarily set up challenges, rewards, penalties, and even the information available to the players.
Wrong. EVERY good wargame includes a referee, just like D&D does. Wargames that are just PvP without an adjudicator are almost uniformly horseshit or simplistic, the only exception I can think of offhand being Dippy, which many people don't even consider to BE a wargame.

>> No.77614763

>>77602877
ose advanced is just ad&d stuff converted to the B/X engine

>> No.77614869

>>77614622
I do not believe we are using tactics in the same way. Tactics, to me, is the step of working out how you're going to optimize the expenditure of your resources to achieve some sort of pre-defined aim. Dungeon crawls are pretty much all tactics, an attempt to get the most loot or other mcguffins/objectives secured for the least amount of damage and risk by skilfully employing whatever resources your party has available. Questions of strategy only enter into it when you have considerations like "Should we be entering this dungeon at all?" "What are we trying to DO as adventurers?", and maybe with edge cases where you can only secure one of two objectives and have to decide which one you really want.

>>77614647
>Playing a game where you're not telling a story, you're experiencing a (simulated) ADVENTURE (because for the characters the stakes, the risks, the rewards, and the failures are real and honestly earned).
You can't have an adventure in a wargame -- and you can't really have one in a storygame for that matter.
I would disagree with this on two major points. First off, you can most definitely have an adventure the way you've defined it in a wargame. For you, the player, the simulated stakes, risks, rewards, and failures are very, very much a thing and very much have to be navigated; all you need to do is self-identify as the commander or whatever the game calls you. I would recommend something like Hornet leader to illustrate it. Secondly, I would argue that that you can never truly have "real and honestly earned" success or failure in any game with a nigh-omnipotent GM. Challenges? Set by the GM, and can be more or less arbitrary. Stakes? Definitely set by the GM. Rewards or punishments for success or failure? Set by the GM. Even the information necessary to formulate plans that you can achieve success or failure are directly provided by the GM. You can only really win or lose on the basis of what the GM allows you to do.

>> No.77614872

>>77614700
I'm not sure what your knowledge base is for OSR play: at times you seem to be approaching it as a newcomer, at other times speaking from experience.

If you've actually ever played a roleplaying game the difference between it and a wargame should be obvious. In a board/wargame I can't run over to the NPC Goblins of Zorn and enter into negotiations to convince them to leave the board, or sneak in and poison their water supply, or polymorph myself into a Goblin Queen and seduce the king, or create an illusion of a ghost and convince them they've offended their ancestors, or whatever zany plan one can come up with and execute in a RPG.

If you've never played a RPG, I can't imagine why you're approaching the subject with such certainty. If you have, the differences should be obvious. Old-school D&D just really emphasizes the dungeon-crawling portion, as well as wider player agency (in effect, emphasizing the differences between a RPG and a boardgame all the more).

>> No.77615005

>>77614869
Maybe, but I think we have the same basic understanding of the terms. I think of it in a very simple way: Strategy is "should we fight? Where?" and tactics is "How should I fight?" I think of it in chess terms: strategy involves trading away knights in an open game, tactics involves pinning and forking and so on.
4e and 5e feature a lot of the same kind of abstract tactics that chess does and focuses much less on strategy. In a dungeon, the way I see it, risk-assessment (Should we keep going?) is strategic, not tactical. But perhaps it's a bit fuzzy.

>> No.77615062

>>77614103
>I'm only asking this semi-snidely.
I'm only saying this 100% earnestly, fuck off.

>> No.77615099

Are there any military-themed OSR games that use the B/X system? I love the idea of players being a group of black ops guys.

>> No.77615107

>>77614465
>The entire thrust of the OSR movement, as far as I can tell, has been to strip away narrative elements from games and turn it back into the more tactical waragameish exercise that were the first efforts into the genre.
Congratulations, you're ill informed and spouting off as if you know shit about fuck or fuck about shit. Lurk, read, play, then talk.

>> No.77615116

>>77615099
Operation Whitebox is close: Swords & Wizardry-based, WWII themed.

>> No.77615127

>>77614872
They're an armchair theorist here to nerd fight about shit they've never actually done. Ignore it.

>> No.77615132

>>77614667
That still seems to me to be a tactical issue. Party has a problem: We need to get across the river. They look around for the series of resources they have available to try to get across the river in the "cheapest" way available to them. By whatever means they determine it, they come up with the idea that tearing up a barn and using its wood to build a bridge is their best course of action, something that likely doesn't take much in the way of pre-existing material resources, and is low-risk but probably takes a lot more time than say trying to swim across. I do not intend to mean tactics just in high crunch probability calculations.

But I would also express some bafflement over saying that the GM allowing things if they reasonably make sense is an OSR thing. I've seen that in many, many systems, some of which are very much not OSR.

>>77614748
And how vast is your experience of wargames anon? Tell me, is something like World in Flames horseshit or simplistic? And please, justify that opinion of yours.

>> No.77615143

>>77614872
>I'm not sure what your knowledge base is for OSR play: at times you seem to be approaching it as a newcomer, at other times speaking from experience.
I'm an oldfag who played oldschool games back in the 80s and working off my memories, and wondering why people would want to go back to something like that.

>In a board/wargame I can't run over to the NPC Goblins of Zorn and enter into negotiations to convince them to leave the board, or sneak in and poison their water supply, or polymorph myself into a Goblin Queen and seduce the king, or create an illusion of a ghost and convince them they've offended their ancestors, or whatever zany plan one can come up with and execute in a RPG.
You're getting caught up on the form and not the substance. Yes, you have, constrained by both the system of the game and your character's abilities (and what the GM has allowed in the game, and what sorts of information you have available to inform your decision as to what might or might not be a good idea) a number of options available to you in order to get past whatever the obstacle of the moment is. There are plenty of wargames that offer you a multitude of options for getting past obstacles.

And you will not necessarily be allowed to come up with any zany plan and execute it in an RPG, because your GM is the one who decides how viable those plans are. How amenable are those goblins of Zorn to negotiation? How well guarded is that well? How horny is the king, and what is his relationship to the queen that he'd be amenable and not intensely suspicious at a sudden amorous advance? How frightened are they of ghosts? The ability to execute any of these plans depends entirely on the tools the GM has placed in the hands of the players. They might or might not exist depending on circumstance, but so to is the challenge itself. Yes, there's fun in coming up with the best way to match your resources to the hazard, but you can do that without an RPG.

>> No.77615254

>>77614872
>as well as wider player agency (in effect, emphasizing the differences between a RPG and a boardgame all the more).
Now I question your play experience. True agency in TTRPGs is vanishingly rare. With the power disparity between even the most well meaning and skilled GMs and the individual players, it's hard to exercise meaningful choice except within the bounds that the GM has set at his or her discretion. There's no agency without choice and no meaningful choice without information to base those choices on. And the GM is the source of all the information. Based on what he's coming up with, the players might theoretically have almost unlimited possibilities, but in practical terms probably only have a few courses of action that make any sense.

>>77615005
I would actually argue that chess has no real strategy, only a sort of pseudostrategy born out of insufficient ability to calculate all eventualities. Every chessplayer has the same ultimate objectives. Checkmate opponent before they do it to you, or if that is untenable, force a draw rather than get checkmated. Moves which advance towards these goals should be played, moves that don't should not. Pretend for a second you had infinite calculative ability: You'd KNOW for a certainty if trading those knights off was a good move for your position or not. It's only because you can't calculate out 50 or more moves that you have to come up with rules of thumb to indicate should I trade in this position or not. All those strategic rules go out the window the moment you've calculated a variation that gets you what you want, even if the plan of action violates the general principles.

>> No.77615268

>>77615132
>But I would also express some bafflement over saying that the GM allowing things if they reasonably make sense is an OSR thing. I've seen that in many, many systems, some of which are very much not OSR.
It's not the sole thing intended by the OSR, I'm just explaining why someone may feel that referees enhance the game experience. Simply put, unless you have an exceedingly complicated system, you will not be able to give people all the options they would have if they were in that position in reality. I'll let other people argue with your other points, I just wanted to give some perspective.

>> No.77615321

>>77615143
You've played a RPG before, so you must realize how absurd your comparisons are. You simply cannot get away with any of the same things in a game like Titan or Divine Right that you can in a RPG. It's obvious. Your comparisons are so sweeping as to be absurd; the fact that a GM might not let you get away with something in no way obviates the very strong possibility (unlike a boardgame) that you can, or the base gameplay framework that assumes that things like this (unlike a boardgame) are the way in which you overcome obstacles, as opposed to the limits imposed by the normal game's rulebook and what you can con your fellow players into. Your hopelessly broad statements of "There are plenty of wargames that offer you a multitude of options for getting past obstacles" and "fun in coming up with the best way to match your resources to the hazard" are so vague and broad as to be meaningless. No matter how you read them, they don't grant an RPG's level of agency to a boardgame, or remove the unique aspect of a RPG and bring it to the same level as a boardgame.

Your argument is so baffling that I'd have to assume you're trolling.

>> No.77615334

>>77615143
old =/= old school
It doesn't sound like you did much of that, you're just old and obtuse while wanting to sound correct about a thing you don't understand or show any interest in understanding. You're just interested in finding a way to prove your shit assumptions right. You're a disingenuous pseudointellectual fuck who's only capacity is to attempt abstracting away until saying
>but you can do that without an RPG.
is somehow an enlightened perspective.

>> No.77615351

>>77615254
>chess is not a game of strategy because if you have perfect play strategy doesn't exist
Ok, I see where you say our meanings of the terms differ, because -- and I'm not being snide at all -- yours is fucking dumb.
>All those strategic rules go out the window the moment you've calculated a variation that gets you what you want
So, in other words, if you decide on a strategy, you don't actually have one? That's preposterous. Nobody, and certainly not chess players, who should know, uses the word "strategy" like this.

>> No.77615460

>>77615143
>played oldschool games back in the 80s
You need to understand that the OSR isn't about what actually happened in late 70s/early 80s D&D, it's about an idealised game based on peoples' 40-year-old memories and the
>implications
of the ruleset.

>> No.77615494

>>77614869
>I would argue that that you can never truly have "real and honestly earned" success or failure in any game with a nigh-omnipotent GM. Challenges? Set by the GM, and can be more or less arbitrary. Stakes? Definitely set by the GM. Rewards or punishments for success or failure? Set by the GM. Even the information necessary to formulate plans that you can achieve success or failure are directly provided by the GM. You can only really win or lose on the basis of what the GM allows you to do.
That would certainly be true in mainstream RPGs, where the GM is expected to be the omnipotent and interventionist deity of the game. Where it's (supposedly) impossible for a player to tell if he's being railroaded, or the dice are getting fudged, provided the GM is sufficiently skilled at concealing his illusionism. Where the GM is not just expected but encouraged to nudge the "plot" toward desired outcomes.
OSR games aren't intended to work that way. They operate on a set of principles (the open world sandbox, the fair and impartial referee GM, the verismilitudinous milieu, the oracular power of dice, letting the dice fall where they may, and many others) that actually serve to constrain the GM. You can't fudge dice if you roll 'em out in the open, friendo.

>> No.77615503

Help i keep trying to write rumors but I like the ideas too much to have any of them to be untrue.

>> No.77615527

>>77615503
Then write ten of those rumors, and construct ten more which are variations on the first, but written in such a way that each pair is mutually exclusive (both can't be true).

>> No.77615550

>>77615527
NTAYRT, but that's a pretty solid approach, actually. I like it.

>> No.77615610

>>77615503
I recently switched to doing a D10 list of things like
>near by lair
>famous treasure
>faction goal
etc. and rolling it with a D3, 1 being not good info, 2 being rough but basically true and 3 being accurate information.
You could always just not worry about false leads and use rumours more like Clues. It won't fuck up the game really. Probably works with a minor gold tax to represent hitting the pavement and getting good information. Or you could use the rules for sages.

>> No.77615814

>>77615503
I write my rumor tables to be 50% false, 25% true and 25% partially true. The point here is that you can maintain what you like about what you've written by just changing a fragment of the rumor.

There is a magical spring in the Skybreaker Mountains that returns the dead to life. It is guarded by an an ancient giant.
There is a magical spring in the Skybreaker Mountains that returns the dead to life. It is unguarded.

Effectively the same subject of the rumor, the enchanted spring, but still technically false depending on how you want to spin it.

>> No.77615970

>>77604361
My dungeon is going to be reviewed by Bryce. What am I in for guys?

>> No.77616031
File: 26 KB, 664x81, uweredrubnk.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77616031

>>77615970
Him getting buck and dunking on you, or praise if you do what looks like things he likes.
Also bryce if you are here again, you have no one to blame for reading dcc stuff but yourself.

>> No.77616100

>>77615970
Bryce's likes are mostly predictable. He likes pulpy things, terse but evocative descriptions, jaquaying, easy-to-glance-at maps and layout, nongeneric treasure, and faction play. He does not like lots of read-aloud, railroading, artsy-fartsiness that makes it difficult to parse things at first glance, or adventures with tenuous reasons for PCs to get involved with them.
I do wonder what some of the stuff he reviews -- that he likes and dislikes -- is actually like to play with, but my past experiences with modules have led me to admire how he treats them as technical documents, in his words.
What's your module called, so I know which one's yours when he posts the review?

>> No.77616181

>>77599856
To be fair it's just as cursed

>> No.77616307
File: 35 KB, 720x960, 9167A7EE-BEEB-4023-A8DC-75A023E0B099.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77616307

>>77593165
Is it a smart idea? to have some of the most recently placed and relatively valuable secret loot cashes in a dungeon Hidden behind a layer of recently maintained traps.

>> No.77616382

>>77605422
What is her holding on to that chain accomplishing? There is no way in hell that if the werewolf decides to run or attack she can hold it back. She'll be yanked off her feet and dragged behind it. Like a little girl walking a grown pitbull dog. Anons, if you have large dogs, don't be irresponsible.
>inb4 the chain is magical

>> No.77616413

>>77616307
Sure, why not? All the stocking tables make treasure guarded by monsters or traps substantially more common than unguarded treasure, and guarded treasure is usually more anyway. Add the concept of dungeon restocking to that and you get your idea.
Frankly it's almost so basic I wonder why you'd bother asking. What's the alternative? Putting a fat stinking pile of gold in the front room where the PCs can just bucket-line it out?

>> No.77616444

>>77616382
please don't kinkshame the werewolves

>> No.77616456

As much as I dislike 5e I'd be lying if I said that LMOP is a bad starting adventure. It has almost no railroading involved (unless you actively want your players to reach the end) and it has some cool dungeons with many optional sidequests. Do you think it could be repurposed into B/X and if not, are there similar OSR adventures that are not just "Village + Dungeon"?

>> No.77616465

>>77616031
I'm probably getting a mixed bag review then based on what >>77616100 is saying. I shilled the dungeon hoping for advice, not thinking he was going to respond and then he said he was going to review it I should have seen that coming really. I'm looking forward to it in a 'oh Christ what have I done?' sort of way. I think my nonstandard amateur's approach piqued his interest.

See for yourself. I've shilled the dungeon in here already; it's called Sulphur and Snuff. It's got a lot of torture in it so watch out and I don't know how he's going to take that.
httpss://foreignplanets.blogspot.com/2021/02/sulphur-and-snuff-horror-dungeon.html?m=1

>> No.77616477

>>77616465
Huh? Link:
https://foreignplanets.blogspot.com/2021/02/sulphur-and-snuff-horror-dungeon.html?m=1

>> No.77616534

>>77616465
Oh shit that will be exciting.
For what it's worth, regardless of what he says, I printed the dungeon and plan to run it as a oneoff.

>> No.77616598

>>77616534
That'd be excellent! Make sure you've got the latest version though, I spell checked a whole bunch and reworded a sentence or two (for clarity) when I realized I was getting reviewed.
Really great to hear you're giving it a go. Comment on the blog or post a quick report in here or something. I'd love to know how you find it, I hope it goes well.

>> No.77616884

>>77607768
I remeber skimmming it and all it did was add this second track of "Grapple points" or whatever that you had to keep track of

>> No.77616961

>>77607768
IIRC it's the mid-weight version of Douglas Cole's grappling systems, in between Technical Grappling for GURPS and Fantastic Dungeon Grappling for DFRPG. It should work fine, but most campaigns aren't going to need in-depth grappling rules.

>$10 is still a lot to drop
Just pirate the thing and see if it's worth your cash.

>> No.77617402

Hey. I'd like to join a game. If possible, with some buffs to the Fighter. Cleaves n such. Anybody running a game?

>> No.77617486

The OSR, as a movement, is functionally dead.

This is actually a good thing. Can anyone tell me why?

>> No.77617542

>>77606328

This was literally made by Dicey. If you like this, you're posting Dicey content.

Dicey Dicey,
Oh so spicy,
Ruins threads and is not nice-y
Fuck off now
Fuck off please
Your tranny dick we do not wish to sees
Your game was FOE trash, get ye gone
Hanging from your closet, a noose you're on

>> No.77617562

>>77617542
what the fuck
*I* made the image, eat shit Pastaman

>> No.77617976

>>77617486
Less eceleb drama and twitter/discord screencaps being spammed in the thread?

>> No.77618158

>>77617542
Can you please do me a favor and post this in the big OSR discord?

https://nyeog.me/stories/beware-paimon-prowler-auratwilight

>> No.77618377

>>77617542
>>77617562
dicey and pastatroon should stop slapkiss fighting and fuck already

>> No.77618389

>>77618377
We do.

>> No.77618456

>>77618158

i dont get the issue with this. isnt it well known that he's a lunatic

>> No.77618726

>>77618158
Jesus Christ

>> No.77618937

>>77616456
Lost Mines honestly has a good thing going for it, with a home base, different factions, and quite a few nonlinear adventure locales. Apart from the expectation that 5e gives where players are meant to murder everything in sight, I could honestly see myself remixing it for a b/x game. I also wanted to remix Princes of the Apocalypse and reduce its bloated pagecount to something more succinct for use at the table, but I can't seem to find the energy to even do it.
As for similar adventures, The Evils of Illmire seems to do something like this, giving the referee a starting town and multiple adventure sites interwoven with factions.

>> No.77619258

>>77618456
On the Dkscord? No. If it is nobody dares mention it. A few of the circlejerkers chew up the mods all the time.

>> No.77619493
File: 253 KB, 1024x974, thief-1024x974.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77619493

>>77618937
Not lying, ran the adventure in BFRPG (reworked slightly to place it in my homebrew setting) but it worked out really well. Party managed to get to level 2 by the end (the Halfling Thief was like 100 xp from level 3).

>> No.77619799
File: 200 KB, 800x1037, vampire slaying.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77619799

Guy whose brother flubbed a vampire lair here

>level 4 cleric in a solo game with two L1 fighter henchmen
>kill vampire knights wife
>miss main treasure cache
>one henchman gets pulled inside out
>GTFO
>flee to town before sunset, wolves howling, skellies on the march
>defend town
>has the garrison dip arrows in garlic
>slows the vampire down
>holds main gate until vampire starts slaughtering the townies at other gate
>him and his henchman whittle the vampire down with garlic, holy water and magic weapons
>fight him to a standstill, flees approaching dawn in bat form

No loot but he's alive, lucky bastard bought the fastest horse in town and is galloping for the coast because vampires can only cross water in a coffin.

>> No.77620115

>>77614452
D&D only seems generic today since it's the core of everything else in the genre..

>> No.77620199

>>77614869
>First off, you can most definitely have an adventure the way you've defined it in a wargame. For you, the player, the simulated stakes, risks, rewards, and failures are very, very much a thing and very much have to be navigated; all you need to do is self-identify as the commander or whatever the game calls you.
Unless this commander is represented as a character in the game world and also is a part of the game mechanically, we have, in this scenario, downgraded the player to simply being a player. In the RPG case the player is the character and is inside the game world and I think this is what the guy you're replying to is reaching for with having an adventure.

>Secondly, I would argue that that you can never truly have "real and honestly earned" success or failure in any game with a nigh-omnipotent GM. Challenges? Set by the GM, and can be more or less arbitrary. Stakes? Definitely set by the GM. Rewards or punishments for success or failure? Set by the GM. Even the information necessary to formulate plans that you can achieve success or failure are directly provided by the GM. You can only really win or lose on the basis of what the GM allows you to do.
You're just playing against the designers of the game instead of the GM. The difference is that the game designers make a fully static challenge whereas the GM can make it come alive by both designing beforehand and adapting things on the spot. If you want to compare results against other players then yes, the game is preferable since everyone has the exact same challenge. Or if you simply distrust GMs, a videogame is better. Otherwise, assuming a competent DM in a group with good players, all of similar tastes, an RPG is better.

>> No.77621197

>>77617976
Yep! And judging by Raggis last ranting looney YouTube post LOTFP is knocking on heavens door. Or it’s part of greasy Jim’s attempt to scam the Finnish govt for free psych appointments.

>> No.77621567

>>77617486
I always found it a bit worrying as someone who got into /osrg/ last year that most good OSR products are ten+ years old.

>> No.77621850

>>77621567
You mean 40+ years, right?

>> No.77622193

>>77621850
Anon, TSR products are not 'OSR' just like original 8-bit games are not 'retro'.

>> No.77623015

>>77622193
Don’t be a pedantic idiot.

>> No.77623836

>>77616477
oh, hey yeah, I've seen you posting about this before. It's a cool design, good luck.
>A young sadist noble stands at a bubbling cauldron. Human hands bubble up in the pale green liquid. The noble splashes soup at the prisoners forcing them back towards the groping of the giant.
Is this a reference to Conan the Barbarian? I seem to remember that Thulsa Doom's cultists also ate pale green peoplesoup.

>> No.77624749

>>77621567
Do mean actually good or critically good

>> No.77625372
File: 341 KB, 1190x1190, osrg random dungeon 3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77625372

>>77607133
>dungeon
[OC]
Sanctuary Mine
1. A large birch dome wigwam sits on a riverbend here, with a yellow-painted deerhide hanging over the entryway. Along one side is a crude stone furnace alongside various small clay molds for jewels, icons of Atruaghin, as well as one for a dagger. There's a burial mound behind the wigwam bearing the mark of the the Turtle clan; the mound is in fact a cover for a trap door with a ladder down to Room 3.
Just inside the entrance, there is a wicker mat over a 20' deep pit down to Room 2. A bed of large, dung-covered wooden spikes is positioned directly under the pit (Falling damage plus 1d8 and save versus poison or die in 1d6 hours).
Inside the wigwam, there's a bed and provisions for one person. There's also a stack of leather tubes containing birch scrolls which describe worship rituals for Turtle Rider as well as how to melt down copper.
2. The walls of this cavern are cross-crossed with empty scars; the floor is barren save for a bed of spikes and a semi-sharp fist-sized rock lying on a deerhide. Tiny ringing sounds can be heard in the walls
3. The doorway into this room is blocked by a glued-together wall of stones, and is held in place with wooden beams inside the room. Inside, there are a couple of clay pots with the distinctly sturdy, flavorless design of the Tiger clan. They contain 6,000 CP and 2,000 SP respectively; there's also a vein of copper worth 3,000 GP just behind the wall in the northeast corner of the room.
4. An enshrined copper icon of Turtle Rider, painted red, stands against the east wall, alongside drums, rattles, and a few bundles of cedar twigs. Water drips from the ceiling. Or more specifically, from four bloated, gray, drooling Tiger clan warriors clinging to the ceiling. They will drop down to attack any party that passes through the room; they fight as Hobgoblins (B36) and wield poisoned copper shortswords. Despite appearances, they are not undead.
(cont.)

>> No.77625393

>>77625372
(cont.)
5. The walls of this cavern are wet as if with cold tears, pitch black and speckled with copper veins like another world's night sky. The passage to the south is preceded by a line of cowry shells on the ground.
6. Appears much like Room 5, but a successful Secret Doors check allows one to notice an emerald the size of a fist just peeking out of the rock walls, worth 2,000 GP.
7. The white walls of this cavern form a perfect cylinder, and most of the floor is consumed by a pool of pure water. In it rests a horned serpent the size of a carriage, which calls itself Mishi-Ginebig. It is connected to the copper in these caves and will subject anyone who tries to steal it to a water curse; victims will swell painfully, maddeningly with phantom water within 3d6 days and will drown if they set foot in water or on a boat before that time. Mishi-Ginebig is a spirit and as such cannot be affected by most spells or weapons, and likewise cannot physically interact with mortals.

>> No.77625478

>>77621197
Summary?

>> No.77625510

>>77621197
>Raggis last ranting looney YouTube post
You got a, uh, link there?

>> No.77625566

>>77623836
Hah, yes it is a Conan reference, and thank you, I think I'm going to need it.

>> No.77625740

>>77606920
>In a room without gravity.
Isn't that just the classic screensaver with text bouncing around the monitor? Except three dimensional?

>> No.77626219

Race as a class, or race as it's done in every other edition of d&d? Legit question, I've been shitbrewing around ad&d and b/x and I wanna know the pros and cons of either. Or does it even matter?

>> No.77626239

>>77626219
It doesn't really matter. Race as class is simpler, but more limiting/one-dimensional. Go with what you like.

>> No.77626244

>>77626219
I use race-as-class, but I give more classes per race. You can say I use “race specific special classes”

>> No.77626384
File: 401 KB, 716x757, BD6FC24E-35C4-4BFF-BD11-35D927108E96.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77626384

Found the answer Anon. Plague Rider from the Chaos Wars line which is 25mm and still sold today. Came out in 1987 as a fantasy rules variant of Ral Parthas medieval combat rules.

https://ralparthalegacy.com/collections/chaos-wars/products/51-0645

>> No.77626402

>>77625478
>>77625510
Spoon feeding inbound!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rRwWbHJ3J0Q

>> No.77626413

>>77626384
Not the same anon but it's awesome that you were able to find it, bless you.

>> No.77626462

>>77626413
I had help from even older Grogs.

>> No.77626540

AD&D alignment chart was a mistake.

>> No.77626593

>>77626540
Not entirely
The influx of immoral, heathen, and atheist players was a bigger mistake

>> No.77626609

>>77626593
>The influx of immoral, heathen, and atheist players was a bigger mistake
t'was indeed

>> No.77626663

Is there a 4 page DM screen for AD&D? I have one of those "build your own screen" things but it's only 4 panels

>> No.77626677

>>77626540
I feel like alignment is probably best determined on a setting-by-setting basis, figuring out what the most important possible factions are in that given universe.

>> No.77626797

>>77626219
I use race and class. My players may only choose human.

>> No.77626872

>>77626219
Race as a class like B/X. Players hardly stray from the typical warrior dwarf or mage elf, so might as well dedicate those races to a particular way of playing.

>> No.77626985

>>77626219
Every additional choice in character creation is another timesink.

>> No.77627124
File: 500 KB, 500x281, Outstanding.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77627124

>>77626384
You, my friend, are a top niggy.

>> No.77628095

>>77626593
Damn, this got me curious and it turns out there's evidence to suggest Gygax was a devote Christian. I always knew the man was a retard, but I didn't realize just how deep it went.

>> No.77628252

>>77628095
Devote Christians don't do coke
devote libertans do

>> No.77628380

>>77628095
Worse than that, he was a Jehovah's Witness, the most annoying of the Christian heresies. It's one thing to be religious, it's another entirely to push your wrongheaded gibberish onto other people in their own homes.

>> No.77628441

>>77628252
Yeah, I hear meth is the more popular option amongst the evangelical crowd. And young men with hard abs and tight asses but that goes without saying since we're talking about the devout relgious preacher types.

>> No.77628652 [DELETED] 

Just finished catching up with the threads of the past month and a half. What a roller-coast.

>>77603537
Building runestones/monuments to celebrate themselves or their fallen companions. I wrote a blogpost about it a while ago: https://escapefromzardoz.blogspot.com/2020/07/raising-runestone.html

>> No.77628737

>>77603537
Building runestones/monuments to celebrate themselves or their fallen companions. I wrote a blogpost about it a while ago: https://escapefromzardoz.blogspot.com/2020/07/raising-runestone.html

>> No.77628935

>>77628737
This is cool. Keep up the good work.

>> No.77629223
File: 419 KB, 1024x1500, AE3298F7-D52E-4430-9F36-FADA320AF926.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77629223

>>77593165
It turns out the term “demon lord” used by your parties cultural allies for the leaders of the enemy forces of darkness was a mistranslation the correct term translates more closely to “divine/supreme overlord” or “ruler of magic” and can be held by a powerful mortal it is also later revealed that several of your allied forces intend to usurp the title for themselves, if someone such as yourself were to personally slay a árchontes maou you could incredibly easily gain the mystical title granting immense magical and political power
Is this a good not so subversive twist for a campaign if foreshadowed properly?

>> No.77629303

>>77629223
I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe foreshadow it by having there be lesser leaders, lieutenants and so on, with similar titles like "dragon sergeant" or maybe even "imp captain" and emphasize that they're normal guys.
It also strikes me as a "no, but" kind of twist, where even if the players are disappointed (Aw, he's not a real demon?) they might be hyped to get their own cool title. So that seems good.

>> No.77629725

>>77629223
Neat concept. Definitely foreshadow it a good bit though. Would like to hear if your players try for the title. Also nice Elric pic.

>> No.77630389

>>77629223
>gay moral relativist play-acting """""""twist"""""""
Stick to WOTC D&D

>> No.77630402

Is there any /vidya/ based on the mechanics of the 1st edition? B/X or BECMI I mean

>> No.77630425

>>77630402
Yes, the SSI "gold box" series of PC games was extremely faithful to 1st edition, to the point of corresponding with the TSR devs to make sure they had the rules right. There are some changes, but a lot fewer than you'd think.

It also let you port your characters over from game to game within a series, which was great.

>> No.77630444

>>77630402
I glanced over your note that by 1st edition you didn't mean 1st edition. There was Shadows over Mystara, but I don't remember how faithful that was to the BECMI rules offhand. Easy to lookup though.

>> No.77630513

>>77630444
>Shadows over Mystara
Isn't that an arcade game?

>> No.77630856

>>77626540
The only good alignment chart is Holmes', there's a reason AS&SH used that.

>> No.77631251

Just got my copy of The Books of Earthsea in the mail today. You DO read the recommended inspiration materials, right anons?

>> No.77631337

>>77631251
Good stuff, though I didn't care much for the ones after A Wizard of Earthsea

I've wanted to find a copy of The Shadow People for a while but it only got one printing and beat up paperbacks sell for 50 bucks.

>> No.77631381

I am thinking about trying to GM some ttrpg for my friends. Which OSR system would you recommend to a beginner roleplaying group?

>> No.77631434
File: 264 KB, 942x1224, Bazaar of the Bizarre.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77631434

>>77631251
Fuck yeah I do. Been reading Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser myself. Leiber's work honestly strikes that perfect feel of what I want out of a campaign.
I haven't read anything after A Wizard of Earthsea for that series, but I quite enjoyed that book.

>> No.77631500

>>77631381
New players will likely handle OSR-style play quite well. The standard recommendation here is reading the 1981 Basic/Expert rules, able to be found in pdf form in the OP's links, and then if you want a cleaner layout for the rules but with less of the clear instruction on how to play, Old School Essentials is very popular.

>> No.77631522

>>77631381
We might have to start putting this in the OP

>Moldvay Basic (B/X)
>Whitebox Fantasy Medieval Adventure Game
>Basic Fantasy RPG
>Labyrinth Lord

All are 'complete' with monsters, treasure, reasonably well organized rules, and all the 'vanilla' D&D stuff you'll want to grasp before you play with homebrews and weird second wave retroclones. B/X has a lot of good advice for new players that many retroclones skip over because it seems obvious.

>> No.77631583

>>77631251
I've read a good selection of appendix N. But I do need to finish the Dying Earth novels.

>> No.77631651

>>77631500
>>77631522
I will take a look! Thanks for the recommendations!

>> No.77631810

>>77630513
Yeah, but you can play it on MAME easily enough. But I was actually thinking of Warriors of the Eternal Sun, which was on the Genesis.

>> No.77631908

>>77631337
>>77631434
>>77631583
/osrg/ Appendix N book club when? [spoilers]Not on Discord though, I'm not a tranny.

>> No.77631935

>>77631908
Ah fuck, I've fallen for one of the classic blunders.

>> No.77632724

>>77631251
>loan my dad my copy of 3H&3L
>he apparently took it with him when he abandoned his wife to move to another city, work as shakedown artist, and fuck some other guy's wife
You hate to see it.

>> No.77632763

OSR play has not clicked for me yet. Granted its my first time doing hex play, but in 5e I was excited to make new and horrific monsters to entrainment the players, and here a slightly beefed up opponent with 2 axes can nearly take down the party. It is easier, but how to make memorable stuff for my players... I'm struggling, particularly with making stuff that is friendly to reaction rolls.

>> No.77632830
File: 234 KB, 466x498, Stair Stalker.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77632830

>>77632763
git gud

>> No.77632856

>>77631810
>Warriors of the Eternal Sun
Good catch, I'll dig into it. Thanks!

>> No.77632953

>>77632724
>when you roll badly on the carousel table

>>77632763
Monsters are not just a thing that hits and gets hit
>mushroom men that have random potion effects in their spores
>moth men that want to kidnap anyone with above average charisma to put them in a zoo on the moon
>cursed undead that burst into flame when they die, igniting any flammables and doing AoE damage
>kaiju that you have to climb and move over like a dungeon crawl to reach their vital organs

>> No.77633546

>>77632953
Not OP, but are there any guides to creating OSR monsters?

>> No.77633634

>>77632953
Oh that kaiju was was definitely something I was gonna do.
The other issue, and maybe I'm just dumb, but how to make encounters interesting when I roll "Indifferent" on the reaction dice, cause most of the time it's just like "the monster isn't bothering you" and my players nod and go upon their way. I can leave out treasure to tempt the players but apparently I'm not leaving out stuff they deem worth it.

>> No.77633641

>>77633546
>stat as bears
No really though. Its good to have as a fallback pretty mean but still manageable stat block you can add bits to as necessary.
I mostly take a look at the classic MM and extrapolate from there, sometimes just reskinning something that seems about right.
HD is very, very roughly, workable to level.
The Level 1 Creature Generator by gorgzu has been a lot of fun for strange creature inspiration.

>> No.77633719

>>77632953
Read some fantasy lit

Gene Wolfe
>A vicious predator that can speak with the voice of whoever it eats; its brain yields a potion that allows you to take on the memories of a dead person by consuming a bit of their flesh

Clarke Ashton Smith
>zombies that try to act out dreamy versions of their past lives; discover who they were in life, and you might be able to convince them to help you

Rules are a framework. Too much and it spoils the fun.

>>77633634
Depends on the monster. Indifferent could also mean "ambivalent" or suspicious--on the fence between friendly and hostile. The "indifferent" monster could follow the party at a safe distance and judge them based on their next actions. It could lay an ambush to corner them and shake them down for treasure on their way out of the dungeon. The GM should be impartial, but he has to take the prompts of the rules and breathe some life into them, or else the monsters are just like dumb video game mobs.

>> No.77633781
File: 555 KB, 1002x1352, Screenshot_20210128-124340~2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
77633781

>>77633546
This is my go to

>> No.77633829

New thread.
>>77633782
>>77633782

>> No.77635374

>>77632763
Not everything needs to be about powerful special attacks, you want some inspiration for horrific monsters? Look up Ear Seekers and Throat Leeches. That shit's horrific.

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