[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Due to resource constraints, /g/ and /tg/ will no longer be archived or available. Other archivers continue to archive these boards.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
[ERROR] No.77554935 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Welcome to Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:

>Previous thread:

How frequently do your players encounter dragons?

>> No.77554947

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d8 (dice+1d8 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Our OC gets archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com
Tag your post with [OC] to help archive anon find it, please.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a magic item
>6. Make a race or class
>7. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>8. Roll 2d8 and combine.

>> No.77555265

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade - less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:

>Being called a FOE (False OSR Enthusiast)?
Report, hide, and ignore. Don't give those people (You)s.

>> No.77555291

So looking through Unearthed Arcana, it's all stuff I would mostly ban, but I want to get some opinions on the races in UA

>> No.77555355

Just finished a session - players have nearly cleared all of B2. They teamed up with some frying pan-clad goblin crusaders to rescue some slaves from the bugbears. Along with the goblin slaves they saved, they also made contact with some of the piratical sea-orks, that is, orks from the C caves, as opposed to the Borks. After talking to the Pirate-Chief, they agreed to set up a duel between him and the leader of the Borks for supremacy of the ork tribes in return for them to stop attacking the keep's caravans.
All that's left is to finish the minotaur caves, a cave-bear den (the fill-your-own-dungeon section attached to the cult's area), and to make it back to the keep without being ganked by lizardfolk/bandits.
Also the girl I like learned a valuable lesson about picking up treasure from rooms full of garbage without checking for bear traps first.

Here's a map. I got a new pencil and have been drawing some random overworld maps

>> No.77555499

Reposting for visibility in new bread (and cause other is shit), feedback is welcome.

>Caribbean themed dungeon with 40 rooms, 10 new monsters and some random shit that I thought would be fun.


>> No.77555641

I forgot to mention in the other thread, but it's very cool and well done!

>> No.77555712

>smaller, weaker dragons
about twice a game year
>Elder killing machines
almost never

>> No.77555799

Thanks! Glad you liked it :)

>> No.77555840

They heard of a dragon attacking (or "attacking"?) a settlement location once. Other than that, never. But that's mainly just bad rolls. A dragon is on my baseline encounter table for every wilderness location...

>> No.77555866

Races aren't bad, but they might need some massaging. I played with a few of them in a campaign a long time ago and I don't remember them being too bad, but your mileage may vary.

>> No.77556180

>oh hey, whoever made this took out that discordfag line about FOEs, I guess I'll post h-


>> No.77556528

>ancient greek themed game
You might look at Mazes and Minotaurs for inspiration.

>> No.77556661

I need a rec, please help.
I (GM) want the OSR/retroclone title that best supports me as a GM when I need to make up bullshit. Making new items, new monsters, new armor, new mechanics if I need to, and especially throwing together a session with some nice tables if I'm too busy. I usually prefer classless/skill-based systems, and wish for character creation to be quick. Other systems I run include Traveller and WHFRP4e, but I want something more focused. My plans are for a very exploration-themed fantasy campaign, and my usual style is encouraging players to stack the deck in their favor with RP and be able to get mechanical benefit out of this. In my usual systems I do this by choosing a very high difficulty for any obstacle and knocking it down for every good idea they have so they have to actually work past their first thought. I think I want an OSR game because every lightweight indie gets called OSR so its probably under your umbrella.

I considered using SWN since its DnDified Traveller and has plenty of tools, but renaming everything from SF to fantasy seems like a pain and godbound isn't close to what I want tonally. It would be more tedious to reflavour everything than doing the same amount of of work to make original content.
Thanks in advance.

>> No.77556763

>I (GM) want the OSR/retroclone title that best supports me as a GM when I need to make up bullshit.
>wish for character creation to be quick
>very exploration-themed fantasy campaign
I would recommend OD&D or a clone thereof. My go-to is White Box: Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game. It checks all of the above.
>usually prefer classless/skill-based systems
I have yet to see a system which manages to be both OSR and classless. White Box does not have any skills, even Thief skills are reduced to a single X-in-6 class ability, however you can hack to your heart's content.

>> No.77556994

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do a thorough read through it to get a sense of if it's gonna work. I'm even weighing Ryuutama, but a table of older dudes would make "cute anime game" a hard sell.

Still open to other suggestions in case any other anons want to chime in.

>> No.77557155

You want worlds without number. The latest beta is available on the internet and it’s fucking great.

>> No.77557233

>this exists
>I didn't know
Goddamn. I will apologize to Kevin for borrowing a copy of his beta until release since I missed the kickstarter. Definitely need to read this over.

>> No.77557326

I feel like world's without number is going to be the next big thing in the OSR. OSE has reigned for a little while but WWN will be even bigger. You heard it here first.

>> No.77557641

>I (GM) want the OSR/retroclone title that best supports me as a GM when I need to make up bullshit. Making new items, new monsters, new armor, new mechanics if I need to, and especially throwing together a session with some nice tables if I'm too busy.

Gonna make some enemies here and say DCC. Tons of tables for all sorts of random shit, plus a huge library of play tested adventures for when you can't be arsed. So they're a little linear, oy gevalt.

>I usually prefer classless/skill-based systems

This does not and possibly should not exist in OSR.

>> No.77557667

why is it so great? legit question

>> No.77557725

>I think I want an OSR game because every lightweight indie gets called OSR so its probably under your umbrella.

Just FYI, lightweight indie games are hated here, I'd unironically ask on rebbit if that's what you're looking for.

>> No.77557808

It's not a retroclone, no one in the core OSR community will care.

>> No.77557843

>I think I want an OSR game because every lightweight indie gets called OSR so its probably under your umbrella.
Not really. You're mixing categories here. OSR properly understood =/= indie lightweight.

> world's without number is going to be the next big thing
Maybe, but I think it more likely that this crowd will pick and choose the parts from it they like, rather than adopt it in full. Kit-bashing is what we do--are many of us are going to use even close to RAW a 330+ page game?

>> No.77558492

ive been acquiring and painting up old school minis. can anyone identify any of these?

>> No.77558704

It's a very comprehensive rules system, it's not written by a controversial figure, and it has a lot of money behind it that will likely be funneled into art and supplements, which are the first and second biggest factors that determine how successful a system is.

>> No.77558756

This is great man. You have an honored spot in hex 056.034

>> No.77558834

I have the cauldron with the wispy head, but I don't know where it's from. When I got it, it was hot-glued to a chariot floor or a litter. It might be either GW or Ral Partha. There are a couple of places to find info about old minis, and one of them is The Stuff of Legends:


>> No.77558889

>just realized that the cat has disturbing human hands
What the fuck Luca

>> No.77558904

They all have them. Little dexterous hands for grasping and pinching.

>> No.77559034

Realms of peril looks like a cool addition to the nuSR scene

>> No.77559149

Thanks for finishing the OP.

It's not UA's fault that drow became a tiresome meme race, but there's no denying that is a turnoff. But grey dwarves and deep gnomes being immune to illusions was rather unbalanced in that it closed off a major element of challenges. Grey dwarves in general are kind of over the top: infravision, 3 in 6 surprise, immune to paralysis, immune to magical poisons

>> No.77559228

Do you, as a GM, get bored when players act cautiously and take things slow? Particularly if you know that there's nothing dangerous in a room or situation? I can see how overly suspicious or careful players can drag a session on without any progress.

Kind of a related question. Who in their right mind would risk their PC on drinking suspicious fountains or pools? So many OSR adventures have cool things to interact with, but these things don't encourage PCs enough to poke around with them. Like the magic pools and enchanted wine in Gardens of Ynn.

>> No.77559284

Nah, man Kevin Crawford doesn't have enough personality or internet presence to build a cult of personality around him (and thank goodness for that). Even Skerples, another writer who has the soul of a washing machine designer, is less of an enigma.

>> No.77559298

Hell no. Amp it up so the players are expecting something but there's no release. Pure tension building.

>> No.77559301

>Do you, as a GM, get bored when players act cautiously and take things slow?
Yes, but it never really takes too long. If I feel that it is dragging the session down I assume that there's some miscommunication between me and the players. I like to say stuff like "remember, this was likely used as a public area before" or something similar to imply that an abundance of caution is not necessary given the circumstance. That might be "table talk," but at least it gets the game moving.

>Who in their right mind would risk their PC on drinking suspicious fountains or pools?
The whole point behind these, or similar dungeon oddities (ring the bell, beat the drum, light the candle, etc.) is that the players are supposed to recognize that there is a roughly equal chance of there being a good or bad outcome. If every fountain in a dungeon is poison then none of your players would ever drink from one again, but if the players come across a source and learn that it has benefits, then they'll understand that coming across these sorts of things could potentially be beneficial. It sort of falls under the category of "DM Theory"—you have to communicate to your players (through play) that there is a constant risk/reward factor in each and every inter-actable element of the dungeon.

>> No.77559307

If I'm aiming to create a tense dungeon environment I enjoy it when the players get that cautious. Its only a problem when they get so tensed up that they refuse to act but time tracking and random encounters tend to solve that problem by default.

>> No.77559392

Longshot question:
A long time ago I remember reading a dungeon created by a blogosphere guy (and I believe was linked to from Z*k's blog but am not positive) that had a room where the floor was covered by a miniature city. The inhabitants could be interacted with and the players could help them get something from another room in the dungeon or something. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Anyone know where I can find this?

>> No.77559578

Putting this here because I didn't realize there was a not shit thread. you sort of shit the op tho
I rolled a 2.
>Livewire, 2HD+1, AC:7, Attacks: 2 D6/D6* Move:120, Morale:8, Save:FM2 TT:?
>A lumbering tangle of burnt plastic and wire in mockery of humanoid form.
>*If both Attacks hit, Roll and additional D6 Damage if unarmored, D8 if wearing partially metal armour, D10 for Plate and similar
>2D6 Wandering, 3D10 Haywire Circuits with 4HD Source, Casts Spells as Level 3 Magic User.
>Often found in Rusting-Ruins, holding hands.
Not sure how to do the treasure table, I don't have my MM handy. Which ever table has the highest change of coins, which should all be lumps of copper.

>> No.77559683

Join the OD&D discord. Message Frankie, he knows.

Then stick around, play a game.

>> No.77560032

That looks neat, thank you for bringing it to my attention. I like the idea of something more westmarch focused, now I just gotta convince some people to play it instead of 5e.

>> No.77560104

yw anon, i do hope that we can find some people to play it, it looks like an awesome game and i love westmarches campaigns

>> No.77560272

I've been getting interested in the Caribbean as a (non-pirate focused) setting so thank you.

>> No.77560362

That looks excellent, the art is real good too, gives me a hotsprings island kinda vibe.

>> No.77560486

>warriors can wear heavy armor
>wizards can cast spells giving higher AC
>rogues stuck with light armor

I feel like rogues deserve some kind of benefit to balance this out

>> No.77560775

You can't attack something if can't see or reach it.

>> No.77560891


If you'll ever run it I really would be interested in a recap!

>> No.77560901

so what the fuck my gm's oldschool anime osr campaign is just pretty much shadow of israphel
the names of all the important world locations a quarter of the important NPC's, even some of the music she used
so i asked her in private and she petty much confessed to it
the other players have absolutely no idea who the yogscast are or what shadow of israphel is

>> No.77560975

How embarrassing. Have you found Daisy Duke yet?

>> No.77561141

it was a few sessions ago but I think she was the deceased mother to the young night watch captain and secret royal heir Daniel duke
There are also a few statues and historic events commemorating the heroic deeds of the duke family especially Uncle Jesse duke, Beauregard duke, daisy duke, and Luke duke

>> No.77561157

So far, yeah. It's more "when their caution outweighs what's necessary", but the party I currently run, yeah, I'd love for them to take a few more risks.

Not that their caution is unwarranted given how many characters have been lost so far...

>> No.77561288

Please, where can I find this beta version?
Can you please explain some more and without using acronyms? I know what OSR is but the rest go right over my head. I'm genuinely interested.
Thank you.

I played First and 2nd edition D&D as kid and teenager, respectively. Recently, I convinced my friends to start a gaming group and for lack of knowing better we settled on 5e as a system because it was the most readily available and accessible. It's also very easy to get into for the uninitiated. However, it doesn't have quite the right 'feel' for me so I'm very interested in the concept of contemporary old school RPGs.

>> No.77561389

Correct, that these races are overpowered. Personally I feel like a lot of those races shouldn't be PC races to begin with.
However, if you wanted to play a game in the vein of an OSR game, and have the story be about Duergars or Drow or even Giants, then that should be an option, as long as you establish that as the base-line for the PCs for that run. If all the players are playing Duergar in the Underdark, that's not a particular problem and (I think) that's why they give you the 'statblock' for Duergar as a PC race. This does create a power imbalance between the player races.
That leaves you four choices (I can see), either:

1. have watered-down versions of the 'exotic' races that are altered to be comparable in power to the base races. Creating less-fun, inauthentic versions of the monster races (a Dragon but you can't fly or breathe fire etc.).

2. faithfully convert the 'exotic races' to PC races but acknowledge that they aren't scaled to be comparable to standard Humans/Dwarves/Elves, so it's inadvisable to have a party that mixes 'exotic races' and standard races, since that would be akin to having one player start off as a Dragon while the rest are playing Halflings.

3. Remove the option to play over/under-powered races from the game so that Duergar keep their unique abilities and features but they are not playable. This way you can balance the races that are available without bastardizing the monster races and have your group be able to mix and match races in the party without creating power imbalances that make the game wonky and lop-sided (Dragon+Halflings).

4. Let your players pick whatever they like, leave it as a faithful conversion of the 'exotic race' to a player race and try your best to GM for that party.

This is a problem if you allow the players to mix and match imbalanced races for the game (Dwarves+Duergar). If everyone is equally over/under-powered then the baseline CR changes but otherwise everything is the same.

>> No.77561443

What flavors an osr campaign as 'anime'? General cheerfulness?

>> No.77561500

this is why I tend to prefer either the Holmes D&D or BX/BECMI/RC D&D methods of balancing non human races vs the AD&D method;

>Holmes D&D
Monster PC's usually start off weaker than the NPC version, normally not gaining their full abilities till they've leveled up enough to reach the same number of HD that a regular member of their species have(thus a PC Ogre wouldn't have the full abilities of a regular Ogre till they hit level 4), Monster PC's might also have a penalty to how much XP they need to level and/or what Classes they can be(though both are optional and left up to the DM), and might have different ratios for their Thief skills if they can be Thieves, overall this one is surprisingly well balanced(when Blueholme was being tested, the only Monster PC's they found problematic among the game's monster selection were Gelatinous Cubes for being too slow, and Medusas for being too strong due to having at-will petrification)

as most people in this thread knows the limiting factors tend to be A) since they operate as Racial Classes, non-human PC's are more limited in what they can do, and B) they often take longer to level(for some of the most powerful supplementary Racial Classes this can often be to truly ridiculous extents) and usually max out their level before Humans do(usually between levels 8 to 12 while Humans reach at least 14 if not higher), this one can work well but it admittedly can sometimes make the non-human options feel weak or even downright like trap options

>> No.77561636

not the anon you asked but here you go.
go to the pdf share thread. in one of the first 5 posts is always the access information on bytee's OSR trove. it's in the stars without number folder

>> No.77561678

How did we end up with two threads? (Another's got thread pic removed.)

>> No.77561694

>How did we end up with two threads? (Another's got thread pic removed.)
that one was a troll thread it had a Nazi pic

>> No.77561781

It's more a rough feel than anything. think deltroa quest, final fantasy, nausucaa, laputa, mononoke, skies of Arcadia, phantasy star, wild arms, chrono cross/trigger,

Some vague rules of thumb could be
Takes heavy inspiration from old jrpg's and nip media
Simultaneously has verdant Beautiful greenery as well as steampunk or psudeo industrial elements
But I don't think those cut it

It's more of a feel than anything

>> No.77561786

so what if any projects are you guys backing as part of ZineQuest 3?

here's the two I'm currently planning on backing;



>> No.77561826

I'd love ot of there was some nice document giving bullet points to try n follow. Heard of this concept a couple times before.

>> No.77561927

can someone give a quick TL;DR summary of what the benefits of Worlds without Number is?
just downloaded the beta but its frankly massive and im supposed to be working

>> No.77561969

it's a very complete to the point of autism campaign building book compatible with all other osr

>> No.77561974

I’m the one you responded to.

Imagine if one man was obsessed with remaking the 1e DMG and making it perfect. it’s like he made an exhaustive, insanely comprehensive list of everything a dm needs then just made it, all built on a b/x shell.

>> No.77562072

I concede I might be retarded. I'll be the first to admit it. I can't for the life on me figure out where I'm supposed to go in order to get to the archive.
I understand there's a simple substitution system and I understand there's a changing password, but after reading the PDF for the OSR'chive and the PDF for the share thread I don't understand what the web address is.

>> No.77562106

It’s ok anon, it’s a bit confusing. Here.


>> No.77562144

Really nice, clean layout is a big plus. Some advice I received here is to put a numbered treasure and monster list by room at the back, with treasure and xp totals at the bottom. People use them to quickly determine how to scale the adventure for more or less players.

>> No.77562188

Ok I found a PDF of the system I was looking for on scribd. But I still don't get how troves work. I'm applying myself.

>> No.77562199

Aw man you're a saint. Thank you.

>> No.77562270

Oldschool&Cool Issue #2

>> No.77562458

I honestly wish, but more than likely it will end up the sane as Stars Without Number: Highly recommended and afforded a top spot on Drivethru, but nobody outside the OSR community or plebbit will care. The fact that it will be limited to just an expensive DTRPG PoD or a few hundred expensive copies available on Amazon will hamstring it.
I'd like to see him partnering up with a company like Exalted Funeral or similar and just let them handle the printing, shipping, and advertising, but I doubt he would.

It's a system agnostic toolkit of worldbuilding and sandbox tools with a B/X compatible game interwoven through it. Its mechanics push the basic engine pretty far without breaking compatibility except in extremely minor cases that are easily smoothed over. The player-facing systems allow for characters who are mechanically distinct without going off the deep end of build autism and turning them into snowflake superheroes.
I'm running it for two groups coming from more modern D&D. They've been really happy with it so far.

>> No.77562520

Im glad he doesn't because Exalted Funeral sells ridicilous stuff to collectors, not to gamers.

Getting into SWN I wish the best of success to WWN. It is good and deserving of praise. I will stick to B/X and my gonzo hexcrawls.

>> No.77562550

Not to be a smartass, but I think that what you described under
>>Holmes D&D
Is basically committing to solving the problem via watering-down the 'exotic' races so they at least start off as comparable to the standard starting races, AND adding a clever work-around (which honestly, I like) in the form of gaining exp to unlock the full potential of the 'exotic' race entity as it is presented in the monster manual. In a sense it kind of makes the monster into a class. So a lvl 1 Giant might not have the powers and abilities of a lvl 5 Giant, and incidentally the lvl 5 Giant is the go-to example provided in the monster manual... Alright, I like it.
This kind of turns monster race characters into dual classes (if you play, let's say a Giant Barbarian), and you're advancement in lvl is penalized accordingly, for balance.

To be fair though, it still doesn't deal with the fact that some 'exotic' races are simply over/under-powered compared to the standard lvl 1 Human Fighter. In some cases the very being of a creature confers on it advantages or disadvantages that are too much to explain away in-game as them being a fledgling of their race. If the monster manual states that a baby Titan or Sky Giant or whatever is as strong as the burliest human and has greater reach, then how can you justify playing even a level 1 Giant and not giving it those bonuses? Is he somehow a cripple? It goes back to watering down the monster race for the sake of balancing it. I do concede that adding the work-around of requiring advancement in 'race' at the expense of a penalty in advancement does give more wiggle room, so that more races become viable and balanced options for a mix and match party of PCs.

>> No.77562560

That's entirely fair. If nothing else, I hope he can fund more print runs and carve out a niche on Amazon or a similar bookstore.

>> No.77562568

Am I a faggot for wanting to homebrew a final fantasy osr system based on the first game? I've been thinking about that recently, and I never really liked the 3.x version that's floating around

>> No.77562572

>join a discord allegedly about OSR
>argument going on whether working hard is good or not

Is there one (1) normal discord?

>> No.77562592

Is it the one with the greaser furry?

You are a faggot regardless of your actions. A FF system would be cool but please make it modular in its mechanics because people are more likely to take rukes and put them into their ruleset than take the whole thing.

>> No.77562643


>i should be lazy because my dad was too poor and retarded to take of me properly


>> No.77562654

yes: https://discord.gg/VpXxtnv and https://discord.gg/G9T8Bjpu9M

>> No.77562792

I was missing information that is found in the recent versions of a file called Da Curated Archive. Thank you for giving me the nudge to get going.

>> No.77562794

>pastaman in both
These are not good servers.

>> No.77562804 [DELETED] 

OSR designers really just looked at the past 20 years of game design and said "what if we made this worse", huh

Pic related is me, what a real designer looks like.

>> No.77562846

>These are not good servers.
the best ones we have

>> No.77563069


Is that emmy? cuter than I imagined

>> No.77563903

Rolled 6 (1d8)


>> No.77564137

Running an OSR Star Wars game using a butchered version of ACKS (B/X).

Comfy as hell, my players already caused over a hundred deaths and got recruited by a Gamorrean mob boss to escape the prison they're in.

>> No.77564196

Oh man that sounds like an awesome game even to me, and I hate the Star Wars universe.
Tell us a story anon.

>> No.77564348

Post the hack? I've wanted to run a star wars game but I don't want to use ffg's gay dice system

>> No.77564446

We've only had one session so far but:
>trapped on an ice-world that is being used as a mining penal colony
>only the outside of the planet is ice, the inside is a deep ocean, the mine is at the bottom of the ocean in a small stone core
>the guards are fellow prisoners in the form of Gamorreans, and they are abusive and vicious
>trusted with explosives to crack a portion of the mines
>they are considering setting the explosives properly before one of the players announces he grabs an explosive and launches it at the two guards that were with them
>the guards fundamentally fail their saves, watch the explosive sail towards them and coat the walls in blood and green flesh
>I roll to see what happens...
>the ceiling starts to crack
>the players run towards the lift, shouting to run as they do
>only about ten people at a time fit on the lift but the players are there first
>they smash the faces and fingers of everyone nearby (with the assistance of a guard with them) and slam the lift doors shut as they rise up the lift
>the flood of water into the caves washes away all the prisoners and causes the collapse of the lower parts of the lift
>they tell the guard to surrender and he does so immediately
>the lift reaches the top floor and ding!
>beyond there's a dozen Gamorreans and one particularly nasty looking one in the centre
>one of the players realises he's covered in Sith tattoos, likely being a former bodyguard of a Sith Lord
>he raises a blaster pistol and shoots the guard that surrendered
>"You," he says to them, "You help me escape."

And we ended there. Only about an hour and a half of play, all in, mostly because we got set up on FoundryVTT for the first time and finalised characters.

Sorry, spread across about fifty Google docs and I want to at least try to make dollarinos out of it once it's complete.

>> No.77564585

An anon told me to update my Alchemy system so I have. There will be no more shilling from me for a while.

>> No.77564587

Running AD&D 1e with all the rules, no house rules. Good idea or bad idea?

>> No.77564649


>I want to at least try to make dollarinos out of it once it's complete.

Disney Lawyers: lol

>> No.77564701

Which system has better morale rules, BX or AD&D?

>> No.77564854

Is Lamentations of the Flame Princess a good system to run a quasi-historical campaign in? I’m mostly interested in their supplements like England Upturn’d and historical settings, and I like the idea of swapping horror monsters in instead of standard fantasy creatures.

>> No.77564856

>race or class
HD and to-hit as Cleric, weapons and armor as Halfling, XP as dwarf
The breadfolk are a race of diminutive demihumans made out of bread, with some born out of a sacred clerical ritual from a distant kingdom and some hailing from the Elemental Plane of Bread. They stand about two to three feet tall and are so light that they will only accidentally trigger an undetected trap on a roll of 1 on a d20. They can also lie still such that they perfectly resemble a normal, if unusually large, loaf of bread. Breadfolk flesh is extremely nutritious, and as such they or another creature can eat one of the breadfolk’s limbs to recover 1d6+1 hit points instantaneously. The process of removing the limb is painless. Breadfolk recover one lost limb for every full day of rest, although parting the torso and the head is as fatal as it is for most other creatures.

>> No.77564968

High dex gives an AC bonus

>> No.77564986

Yeah, at least as good as any other system. The gun rules are pretty nice

>> No.77564997

Use ACKS and it's gun system instead.

>> No.77565376

yeah, last one shot I ran players just stood on a roof of dinosaur stables for good half an hour and did nothing untill I made my dmpc* jump inside that building. Not making any decisions or plans should be stopped at all costs since it just eats up precious game time. Unless it is a roleplay heavy session of course.

*Dont judge me for having a dmpc, it was a tie in to our main campaign where my pc recruited a bunch of kids with attitude to go and murder the evil time wizard he swore vengance on (for his shitty time machine blowing up in his face and permanently removing 1hp. NEVER FORGIVE)

>> No.77565476

So these hex maps and dungeon maps that I as a DM have spent so much time lovingly crafting...the players are never supposed to see them? I’m only supposed to tell them vocally what’s on the map and then watch them try to puzzle it out?

In that case, why not make much simpler maps, that aren’t exact to the 5 foot square?

>> No.77565885

up to you what maps you make. I make mine exact because we track movement.

>> No.77566172

You lose out on the exactness and risk creating things that don't make spatial sense. It's also easier to describe things when you have a diagram of them in front of you. If you end up in combat you might need to design the rooms anyway, even if it's just in your mind. But abstract maps are way easier to draw, and handle verticality way better. Give one a try.

>> No.77566346

Asked this in the previous thread: what are you playing?

>> No.77567071

Between The Dark Eye, Dungeon Crawl Classics, and Zwihander, which system does the /tg/ hivemind have the highest opinion of?

>> No.77567183

That's one hell of a disparate list: you're not going to find a "tg" opinion on that. DCC is fine for what it does I guess; I prefer to just steal ideas from the modules. Dark Eye: ask the Germans, who are the only ones who play it. Zweihander has a special annoying factor because its creator is loathed by many, but I've never played it.

>> No.77567260

There's White Star if you want not!StarWars. No idea if it's good or not.

Grid-based maps are honestly about as simple as you can get. It's really easy to make maps using a grid system, comparatively, and they're easier to use, too. However, it's not the only system. Pointcrawls and pathcrawls have seen use in some games. Arguably my hexcrawls are de facto pointcrawls or pathcrawls.

Personally, I like not telling the party so that they can get themselves lost, and so I can trick them into believing they're on track until such a point as they realize they made a wrong turn three days ago and are nowhere near where they're supposed to be. Also, having an accurate map lets me make inaccurate maps to sell to the players if I so desire.

DSA > Zweihänder > DCC, but that's based entirely off of not having read them. DSA was originally in German and I like languages, so that brings it up a little. DCC's fans are about as obnoxious as GLOG's used to be, so that brings it down significantly. Plus it's got funky mechanics that don't fit my playstyle. Only barely heard of Zweihänder.

Also, we're /osrg/, so our opinions on games are likely to be very different from other places on /tg/.

>> No.77567416

>I feel like world's without number is going to be the next big thing in the OSR.
If you're a weirdo like me who actually likes running games in Sine Nomine's default settings, WWN sits at a kinda painful point when it comes to adventure modules. You can slot vanilla adventures and the vast majority of TSR's stuff in the Latter Earth just fine, but the setting's not really tonally compatible with either bloody grimdark edgy adventures, death metal hardcore adventures and fairy tale whimsical adventures which are all the most popular adventures atm.

I just don't see people making adventures (and therefore building hype and brand awareness) for WWN sadly because of this and because the book's really designed for people who make up their own shit anyway.

>> No.77567583

DSA is the messiest fucking system in the world. It is crunch for no purpose and all its modules are railroady as hell. Germans being as they are, they sucked it up and refuse to play out of their role in the slighest.

Please don't judge when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

>> No.77567657

You asked which system we had the highest opinion of. I have the highest opinion of DSA. I really don't care about the rules since it's not even in my top five games, but I'd still sooner pick up DSA than I would either of the other two.

Don't ask questions if you don't want answers.

>> No.77568140

>But abstract maps are way easier to draw, and handle verticality way better. Give one a try.
Honestly I’m thinking of going the abstract map route

>> No.77568722

Dark Eye: have only heard about this in stories of games gone badly wrong.
DCC: modern DnD (meh) with extra dice (boo) and a better implied setting (yay).
Zweihander: this is generic Warhammer, right?

Overall since I'm not German or Polish I'd prefer DCC.

>> No.77568935

What supplemental materials do you use when running games? Do you have good time trackers, or some tables you can link that you keep handy or any other stuff?

>> No.77569374

I don't think anyone uses the AD&D morale rules much: they're another classic AD&D overcomplication.

>> No.77570459

As a ruleset it doesn't do a ton to support horror rules (doesn't work against it either: just doesn't have specific tools like, say, CoC). Its modules definitely work that way, however.

>> No.77570549

see I don't see the issue here, yeah it can be a little iffy between lore and actual play in that system but I feel it works great in the aspect that actually matters, will a Player have fun using a Monster PC under these rules and with that I figure the answer will be yes

>> No.77570813

Yes, Zweihander is WFRPG without actually being WFRPG (IIRC something something copyright issues).

Also, out of those would also pick DCC, since Dark Eye is "Germans making rules a game: the TTRPG". It's fun to those who play it (apprently, it _is_ after all the most popular PnP game in Germany), but I would not recommend it.

>> No.77570858

I'm sorry but I think that's the wrong question when discussing balancing.
>Will the player have fun playing the imbalanced races?
I dare say you can have fun playing anything if the game is tailored around the players in an appropriate way.

The problem with having imbalanced player races, as I understand it, is that if you run a game for a group and there are a large power gaps between the PCs, then it's going to be a bitch and half to design encounters that fun for all the members of the group. If we're playing as four Halflings and a Dragon... There are so many problems that are challenging for a Halfling and not at all for a Dragon.

Which isn't to say that you can't or shouldn't play a game like that if you want. But then we're back to:
>4. Let your players pick whatever they like, leave it as a faithful conversion of the 'exotic race' to a player race and try your best to GM for that party.

>> No.77571318

honestly you're overthinking it

>> No.77571403

see that's the thing if this was just some rules a guy on a random blog made I could see your point, but the Blueholme system not only is derived from how Holmes himself did it in his games, but in turn received a lot of playtesting by the Blueholme developers, they've actually done the work, so if they say having a Dragon PC is balanced than I'm fit to believe them

>> No.77571943

That one was the bait thread
I fell for it sadly

>> No.77572340

The Cauldron is from the old
grenadier Wizards room set.

>> No.77572461

Impossible idea, since there are significant contradictory portions of the text, omissions, or ambiguous sections requiring interpretation. But you can still have fun with it as a game and cleave to the "spirit of the rules."

>> No.77572466

Possibly, but I'm also enjoying myself. Also, maybe it will spark a discussion and somebody will tell me something I didn't know or would never have thought about myself (both of which have already happened).

It sounds like they committed to the solution of watering down the monster race and then added a neat workaround. I like that solution and I don't doubt that it expands and diversifies the pool of races that players can play while keeping the PCs balanced overall. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a good solution and even better if they really went ahead and did the play testing to back it up.

>> No.77572499

A couple of days late, hopefully I didn't miss something in it.
>3620/2000 comment too long
awh shit.

>Valentine's Charming Arrow
Level 3
Range: 30 yds. + 10 yds./level
Components: V, S, M
Duration: 1 rd/level
Casting Time: 2
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None
This spell has two effects. First, the wizard can cause normal arrows or crossbow bolts
to become magical charming missiles for one round per level. If they are removed from
the wizards person they are consumed by the magic. For every five levels the caster has
achieved, up to 10 arrows or bolts can be affected. The arrows inflict normal damage, plus
1 point of magic damage and another 1 points of magic damage based on the wizards charisma
(Reaction Adjustment divided by two rounded up) and the target if it is a person, animal or
monster receives a saving throw vs. spell to avoid the effect, with any adjustment due to Wisdom.

The second version of this spell enables the caster to hurl charming bolts at opponents
within range. Each bolt inflicts 1d6 points of piercing damage, plus 1d6 points of magic
damage and another 1d6 points of magic damage based on the wizards charisma (Reaction
Adjustment divided by two rounded up) and the target if it is a person, animal or
monster receives a saving throw vs. spell to avoid the effect, with any adjustment due
to Wisdom. The caster receives one bolt for every five experience levels (two bolts at
10th level, three at 15th level, etc.). Bolts must be used on creatures within 20 yards
of each other and in front of the wizard.

>> No.77572516

The Grenadier Lizardman was sold in the (2010) Denizens of the Swamp set, an the Axe- armed lizardman was sold in the (104) Lizardmen blister, and a club-armed lizardman was sold in either.

The Ent is from Superior Models, Wizards & Lizards line, WL-028 Ent Treent.

The Naga is Grenadier, a Naga Spirit 5002.

>> No.77572528

2/2 actually 3 parts but I didn't count
>Valentine's Charming Arrow
If the spell recipient fails his saving throw, he regards the caster as a trusted friend and
ally to be heeded and protected. The spell does not enable the caster to control the
charmed creature as if it were an automaton, but any word or action of the caster is
viewed in the most favorable way. Thus, a charmed creature would not obey a suicide
command, but he might believe the caster if assured that the only chance to save the
caster's life is for the creature to hold back an onrushing red dragon for "just a minute or
two." Note also that the spell does not endow the caster with linguistic capabilities
beyond those he normally possesses (i.e., he must speak the victim's language to
communicate his commands).
The duration of the spell is a function of the charmed creature's Intelligence and is tied
to the saving throw. The spell may be broken if a successful saving throw is rolled, and
this saving throw is checked on a periodic basis, according to the creature's Intelligence
(see the following table). If the caster harms, or attempts to harm, the charmed creature by
some overt action, or if a dispel magic spell is successfully cast upon the charmed creature,
the charm spell is broken.
If two or more charm effects simultaneously affect a creature, the result is decided by
the DM. This could range from one effect being clearly dominant, to the subject being
torn by conflicting desires, to new saving throws that could negate both spells.
Note that the subject has full memory of the events that took place while he was
Intelligence Score Time Between Checks
3 or less 3 months
4-6 2 months
7-9 1 month
10-12 3 weeks
13-14 2 weeks
15-16 1 week
17 3 days
18 2 days
19 or more 1 day

>> No.77572546

>Valentine's Charming Arrow
Note: The period between checks is the time period during which the check occurs.
When to roll the check during this time is determined (randomly or by selection) by the
DM. The roll is made secretly..
The material components for this spell are a piece of someone elses pubic hair or a driplet of someone elses secretion and a small piece of flint.

>> No.77572761

Doubt it, it's too specific. OSE is successful specifically because it's a no-setting restatement of B/X and Norman's cramming all his setting stuff in Dolmenwood/Wormskin. Crawford's games always seem to follow the same trajectory: big hype for his innovations, then nobody plays them.

>> No.77572870


>> No.77572938

Desert Moon of Karth, Tiengì, old roads, Tomb of Immolation.
I would like to make something for the next zinequest, though at the moment I'm kinda low on specific skills.

>> No.77572961

Wizard Funk #3. Pretty sure the creators or one of the artists posts here.

>> No.77573009

Who is this and what did they design?

>> No.77573062

I saw a weather generation flowchart for hex crawling here. Pretty sure it was shaped either like a flower or a series of hexes. Like if you rolled for snow you couldn’t get hot sunny day next. Weather had to change more gradually. Anyone remember this?

>> No.77573079

>Is he somehow a cripple?
No, he's young. As he adventures with the other PCs he grows up until he's finally a big ol' giant. OD&D explicitly specifies something similar for a dragon PC.

This actually helps because the kid giant doesn't have to be more than 6-7' tall at most (less for a hill giant), and maxes out his height by whatever level equates to the adult form's regular HD.

>> No.77573107



>> No.77573162

>Crawford's games always seem to follow the same trajectory: big hype for his innovations, then nobody plays them.
I’ve been into RPGs for 30 years and unfortunately that’s every game but D&D. I have shelves full of other games I enjoy reading and stealing from and maybe even occasionally playing but always come back to AD&D.

>> No.77573449

Yeah, I don't disagree with you.

>> No.77573551

I think it's literally called a hex flower.

>> No.77573613

What’s a good table or resource for generating s.t.a.l.k.e.r. Style anomalies?

>> No.77573997

Literally just gonna copypaste my post here.

This is still peak OSR styled gaming for me, only Arx Fatalis comes close. Both super heavily inspired how I run shit and I STILL wanna run some lotfp campaign with the premise/setup that the players are in a Thieves guild.

>Everything is super lethal if confronted head on
>Gold is incentivised
>Play smart with gadgets and traps to outmanouver targets
>Honest to god tomb raiding and dungeon delving with verticality you get from rope arrows and shit

>How do Thief and Arx Fatalis affect your game? I love both and I'm curious. In the design of the world, the dungeons, or changes to the core mechanics?

I love the way that Thief presents the split between order/chaos, it's by far the best presentation of that for me. The two factions that embody it (as well as the third that acts as neutrality) are all done incredibly well.
It's also a great showing of how you can do shit that should be boring really well if you just add some atmosphere to it. Zombies are suddenly terrifying when you can't ever put them down without the right tools and they can represent a huge obstacle in a 1:1 fight.
I also LOVE heists as a result of playing this. Ive had huge success before with running oneshots using lotfp focused around heists and I still think that this formula matches on to dungeon crawling well (there's not a lot of seperation between a dungeon and a mansion, and the latter allows for traps, weird shit and faction play really well).

In terms of greater lore though I'm not really big on lore shit but I've basically copied the structure 1:1 in a lot of my games, in terms of the background mythology of law v chaos and having weird shit come from some great abyss called the maw. I've also literally copied some dungeons from it 1:1 and they work really well.

>> No.77574020

Write 100 adjectives that could be used to describe the many different Stalker anomalies, then write 100 nouns or verbs to go with the adjectives. Whenever you need an anomaly roll d200, one d100 for each word-list and combine the results.

>> No.77574293

What are some interesting ways to use a gelatinous cube?

>> No.77574374

Realms of peril
Rackham Vale

>> No.77574458

The only game in the English speaking world played in any numbers besides D&D and variants is Call of Cthulhu. Anything besides that is a rounding error.

>> No.77574495

>2. Make a monster
Dimensional Horror
3 HD 6 AC
40' MV Att 2d6 claw
Special: combat turn procedure is reversed, (melee, move, morale) as the Dimensional Horror acts out-of-sync with reality.

notes: this monster is best used for close range ambushes and hit-and-run due to the attack/move order.

Dimensional Horrors move and act in reverse with an unsettling ease. Their unnatural presence upsets beasts who will note backwards footprints that precede a Dimensional Horror. Dimensional Horrors have a hatred of irreversible acts such as the burning of candles or the swearing of oaths.

>> No.77575624

So hexcrawl maps should be largely empty, save for major landmarks/cities, right?

>> No.77575656

Just like real life.

>> No.77575684

Some one gave me really good advice (at least for the kind of game I like) a couple of threads back. When describing hexes, dungeon rooms initially be laconic like the old text adventures.

You are in a hills, North clockwise to SE are plains, S is a lake, SW clockwise to NW are pine forests.

A trail runs through this location leading to a small village, it comes from the North and leaves through the SE.

I like evocative descriptions but those come after unless the party's perception is compromised or they request one.

>> No.77575742

Cute map. Mind if i steal it?

>> No.77575747

I don't mind, but you should make yer own.

>> No.77575957

I was just replaying Wolfenstein 3D and it hit me how it would make a great WW2 themed OSR game.

- SOLDIER: +1 AB up to +10, 1d8 HD, Save as Fighter
- MEDIC: Healing/Buff Abilities, 1d6 HD, Save as Cleric
- EXPERIMENTEE: Access to Mutations, 1d4 HD, Save as M-U
- SABOTEUR: +4/+2 to Skills, 1d6 HD, Save as Thief

- Architecture
- Climbing
- Languages
- Search
- Sleight of Hand
- Sneak Attack
- Stealth
- Survivalism
- Tinkering

- Death/Poison (Dying, Toxins)
- Paralysis (Freezing, Mind Control)
- Area Attacks (Fire, Gas, etc)
- Physical Traps (Darts, Spikes)
- Occultism (Magic Nazi Juju)

You're already in a dungeon working your way out floor by floor. Weapons range from Combat Knives, Explosives, and Pistols to Machine Guns and Rocket Launchers.

Nazis, SS Units, Officers, Attack Dogs, Zombie Mutants, Mystical Shit and bosses in dieselpunk Mech suits.

I think I'm gonna make a homebrew for this.

>> No.77575989

Nazis are pretty much interchangeable with goblinoids. I wouldn't feel bad about playing a game about indiscriminately killing either.

>> No.77576009

I only run/write settings that I can make dungeon terrain and minis for.
sounds fun, Id play it.

>> No.77576047

Thing is, the book doesn't say you bypass the check by roleplaying* and inferring such is purely OSR revisionism.
Not every hidden door, chest, trap or treasure are logically realized by the DM, for example you might want to find a secret door by narrating how you pull a torch stand or check for loose bricks, but the DM might have not thought of every secret door having such a switch, sometimes it is just abstract. Same with traps, designing a trap with a mechanism you can, not only disable, but locate and understand how it works by just the DM describing it is quite time consuming if you apply it to every single trap you put in the dungeon. Sometimes the trap is just the 10 foot square being trapped.

Another point is that instead of bypassing the check, it might be easier if you describe interacting or looking in the right place, but it does not automatically succeed it.

And no, your DM isn't "a total pushover" if he doesn't let you bypass mechanics because you can describe fiddling with random dungeon bits well.

*Except for Mentzer, who encourages you to allow instant bypassing of checks to run from 'unbeatable monsters' because FUN, but not due to them narrating their character doing so.

>> No.77576099

stealing plots is based, especially if its retarded shit nobody else has seen before

>> No.77576175

NAYRT, but it just makes traps seem even more shitty than they already were.

>> No.77576224

I mean, if you have a logical mechanism that explains how the trap triggers, it makes no sense to use the abstract "it triggers 2-in-6" chance the books give you.

>> No.77576279

I prefer to do that. How did Gary and Co do traps? Did they give vague throwaway remarks/red herrings or did they just say "You walk into a pit of spikes"

>> No.77576305

I prefer it too, but I don't run TSR D&D and pretend it works otherwise.

>> No.77576350

How do you lads award xp in your games? Gold for xp, or for tasks? Or your own special method?

>> No.77576445

What is the role of dungeons within the world – are they a place where MacGuffins have been hidden, ruins of lost civilizations, unexplored caverns, Zelda-like puzzle dungeons, or something else entirely?

>> No.77576536

I don't think so. Who is going to want to hexcrawl if it's an endless series of random encounter rolls and "you find some trees"?

>> No.77576567

In my world they serve as runs of lost civilizations. Usually dwarves or other creatures that are serving as the next evolution of the cycle of civilization. The game is assumed to be the point where humans are the majority, but also the new kids on the block. There to explore the world with their customs and classes that don't have an equivalent to Dwarves or Elves.

However underground in the Underworld lies creatures which are also rising to serve as the next dominant civilization, with the Underworld's influence coming from these creatures. Things have set for Dwarves, Elves, and Hobbits, and Humans have risen. But on the horizon what you can see creeping are the forces of chaos to keep the cycle in perpetual motion.

Humans have risen, but beings that lurk in the ruins of the Underworld are rising to see them fall like Humans have seen to for other races.

>> No.77576622

I put one on the other side of a illusory wall. Otherwise I love it as a cleaner (i.e. random encounter) in a dungeon.

>> No.77576633

"Every hex should have a feature" is not a good idea unless your hexes are 12+ miles per.

That being said, terrain type can have a huge impact on the experience even in an unkeyed hex. Monster roll, lair % roll, reaction, morale are excellent tools that can create a really fun experience.

A lot of people in these generals post more than play and just in case you're one of those people I have a piece of advice.

A small lair you've scribbled and stocked with "monster, treasure, trap, special" in 2 minutes will go a lot further in OSR play than it would in 5e.

My players approach everything like a real life situation and they spend a lot of time brainstorming. All you need is something tempting and some danger.

>> No.77576639

Yeah, pretty much. If everything's close by, is it even a hexcrawl?

Copper for XP. Plus buying back for wasting money (funerals, carousing, donations, etc.) and for good deeds.

>> No.77576679

It's a cool way to have Tolkien races and places like Khazad-dum, Angband, etc but still have the pulpier Lovecraft pastiches. That's cool.

>> No.77576681

They are the typical ruins of the last civilization. Currently reoworking my lunar setting so they are the former habitats of the advanced civilization that was once using the moon as a forward base to the stars. They were wiped out by their own nanotech, which now functions as the magic of the world, and the world was populated by the things that grew when their cloning vats were left unattended.

>> No.77576754

there are Natural Dungeons, the Magic of the world just tend to flock towards underground, so any kind of cave starts to mutate, change and create his own magical and weird ecosystem, the sapient races tend to use this spaces to live, hoard, build, experiment, and just be a bunch of dicks

>> No.77576804

Barrier peaks/Ralph Bakshi Wizards esque stuff. sounds cool.
I can definitely get behind this.

>> No.77576968

>I would like to make something for the next zinequest, though at the moment I'm kinda low on specific skills.
yeah I'm kinda thinking about maybe doing that idea I've had before about using the Monster PC system from Blueholme and doing writeups of a ton of Monsters in PC Race form cause while the system is pretty simple it's not exactly laid out in as clean a form in Blueholme as it probably should have, indeed I asked the Blueholme guys over on RPGnet a while ago about how accurate my take on it was and they said it was pretty spot on

would probably work well as a quick and dirty little Zine, though I've never really actually made anything of that nature before

on the topic of Video Games that hit the OSR vibe, I still say Bloodborne does it pretty well with how it's Chalice Dungeons work

>I was just replaying Wolfenstein 3D and it hit me how it would make a great WW2 themed OSR game.
reminds me of an idea I had ages ago about an OSR hack based on Team Fortress 2, as it has a nice built in array of classes(and it's universe provides ideas for a couple additional potential classes too)

>> No.77577178

Yeah I wasn't going with every hex a feature, but I figure that I should build encounter tables with the general idea of pointing them in the right direction.

This was the map I had so far, they are starting on the left and moving outwards. My idea is that it's an older map, with some of the islands are either gonna be bombed out ruins or sunk because of the sea king's wrath, and some aren't marked on the map at all.

>> No.77577466

WWN has a lot of cash behind it, so the problem could be solved by just paying some big names to make adventures. But I know what you mean. The current trend is lightweight niche systems, and WWN flies in the face of that.

>> No.77577514

SORRY but this niggles my autism
>roll d200
It should be roll 2d100
SORRY AGAIN, I just had to mention it.

>> No.77577524

Tagging this [OC]

>> No.77577719

Was it this one?

>> No.77577899

thank you! means alot .

question, can you identify this guy?
shop keep told me he always wondered. he told me that he glued in the spear.

>> No.77577936

wildly impressive. Respect

>> No.77578354

Increasing the chance every hour or so if necessary.

>> No.77578368

I tend to show my players the map after they've basically finished with the dungeon or they all die. Its fun to compare to the map they've made.

>> No.77578440

A while back an anon here was putting together a ww2 french partisan hex crawl. It looked pretty neat. Not sure if they're still around or put it anywhere.

>> No.77578842

I like it!

>> No.77578922


I'm going to exaggerate to stress my point here, what if the race we want to convert into a player race is angelic beings, that emerge fully formed in the world, and are superior to humans in every way? Or a vampire? Or the Medusa child that can petrify.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but at some point the the power gap between the bog standard PC races and 'exotic' races is so great that making them somehow comparable requires a ridiculous amount of jank. At some point I'm sure for some races the player would need to start out as a fetus or hatchling to be able comparable to a low lvl human character. It's a good solution but it's not perfect. Ultimately it brings more options to the table, even if that option is "you have to play as a toddler/baby/hatchling if you want to make this character at this level."

>> No.77579043

A trap should only be placed if fully realised, it is literally pointless otherwise

>> No.77579147

I think ruins, the world is a bad place, with dragons and trolls and whatever ruining everything so development is a bit stunted.

Also because the world is scaries than our real world, tunneled out homes and caverns have been seen as safer places in the past.

>> No.77579586

I think the discussion is about what constitutes "realized." Do you mean to say that we need to draw up schematics and a mechanism for every trap? Take into account the physics involved in a gas trap so the players can interact with it realistically? There's a slider somewhere that goes from "I've handbuilt and tested this in the real world, and I know what it does and how. Here is what you see as a player, how would you like to continue?" to "Yea, chart says there's a trap here. I don't know *A* trap. Do you roll to disarm it or not?"

>> No.77579695

I’m trying to make a 2.5 dimensional weather system and getting the dice just right is proving tricky, I don’t want things to average out towards middling weather.

>> No.77580088

I heard someone theorise that dungeons come from people living in the cavity left by purple worms boring through the upper crust. All the treasure you find there is what monsters dig out of the churned up earth.
It sounded like a cool theory and explains why deeper levels would have more treasure and therefore tougher monsters down there getting it.

>> No.77580295

That's a really cool map, Anon! Interesting terrain, lots of neat hidden features. Would plunder.

>> No.77580438

Whats the thing that looks like a tunnel entrance from Loony tunes?

>> No.77580910

That's really cool - do you recall where you got it from? Zero matches on tineye.

>> No.77581011

Nah. The trap is a challenge element in a game, if it doesn't present a meaningful challenge to the players (not the pcs) it has no purpose. It needs enough detail to allow for the players to interact with the logic of the setting in such a way that they can meet that challenge. Otherwise it's pointless.

>> No.77581023

We were collaborating on a supplement over at >>77563157 (/horror/) if anyone's interested in joining, it'll be OSR focused. I'm imagining it as being a Keep on the Borderlands type setup but with parasitic vampires as the initial antagonists.

>> No.77581069

Entrance to a cave network or dungeon

>> No.77581311

Derp, of course.

>> No.77581365

An ambiguous trap can serve as a way to slow down the players and dwindle their resources. In particular, the 2-in-6 chance of going off means it might hit someone at the back of the party, something most traps wouldn't do (As they usually hit the person who triggers them). If I want to challenge my players creatively there's still puzzles. Again this is not how I run traps, it's just what the book implies you should do, not to use Grimtooth's Traps or whatever and make a Rube Goldberg machine of death.

>> No.77581396

>Grimtooth's Traps
I've seen this before and I suck at traps. Is it any good?

>> No.77581470

Even a fully realized trap doesn't mean the players can interact with it meaningfully, or that it provides an interesting game element. In fact it's hard to make an interesting fully realized trap that the players can notice and disable instead of falling right into them and possibly dying as a gotcha moment, as traps are usually meant to be hidden and not out in the open.

A lot of them are very silly, over-complicated and straight up lethal, but they are all mechanically detailed, even if that means most of the mechanisms are inside walls and thus completely invisible unless you tear the dungeon apart.

>> No.77581512


>> No.77581527


>> No.77581545

I mean, do you really have to know how the pin mechanism of a needle trap works inside a chest works?

>> No.77581774

Grimtooth is known for over-the-top, over-designed, and highly, inescapably lethal traps. They are a fun mental exercise, but I think folks try to use them very sparingly (if at all) because they fuck the players

>> No.77581850

I've started experimenting with the idea of visions and divination as a means to re-do scenes that end in a TPK. There's been no need for it, and I'm not sure how it would work with combat heavy encounters, but I think Grimtooth's traps can turn a comical party wipe into an actual puzzle since they see how the mechanism works and then have to develop a workaround. Traps that are really devious are fun for the DM but they tend to just piss players off. I'm trying to develop a compromise.

>> No.77581873

I stole your map Anon, please forgive me.

>> No.77581940

I stole your crossbow rogue anon

Please sir, may I have another?

>> No.77582035

Even if a trap is hard to notice cant you just place a mangled corpse from the last guy nearby?

>> No.77582090

You could, but that doesn't necessarily inform them of how the trap would work, nor that there is a trap here at all, it could've been a strange creature or monster that deformed the victim. Better than nothing though.

>> No.77582195

Have some more ruffians from the same artist, no crossbow though.

>> No.77582272

The 1in 2 chance is, as you say, to go off, though. The trap (pit trap is implied) could be detected through in game precaution, not by roll

>> No.77582379

If the players cannot meaningfully interact with it then it serves no purpose, it is simply a resource tax at best, so why have it?

>> No.77582388

I use a unique chance for detecting each trap
Pic is from the Advanced Heroquest Enhanced PDF. all die chances are on a d12

>> No.77582396

That's interesting.
May have to mull on it myself - would be curious to learn how you implemented it and how it goes.

>> No.77582464

Yes, the incongruity comes from having a mechanism that is supposed to trigger when a certain thing happens, but doesn't because there's a 2-in-6 chance. For example, the pit trap is hidden by a fragile fake flooring that caves in, why didn't it go off when the heavy armor clad fighter stepped over it? Why does the pressure plate not trigger when someone steps over it? Why didn't the string being pulled activate the trap?

Even when inspecting things 'in game' most modules seem to assume you have to roll anyways, pic related from B-2. Remember the roll is just to SEE it after saying you observe carefully, not about attempting to disable it which I assume would be even more difficult than seeing it.

A resource tax is a perfectly valid purpose in the 'game design' sense, after all the name of the game IS time and resource management.

Again, I don't think these kind of traps are fun, but this is how I interpret how you were meant to be running them, as the rules hamper trying to run them as "visible puzzles to creatively challenge players".

Do you find this actually improving the game? I don't see why adding a table to each trap type (Limiting you to only those categories listed) would add much but arbitrary distinction.

>> No.77582523

>what if the race we want to convert into a player race is angelic beings, that emerge fully formed in the world, and are superior to humans in every way?
Guess they don't emerge fully formed after ll, this one needs to form! A Super-Hero is superior to a Normal Man in every way too.

>Or a vampire?
Newly created vampire. This one's easy, the BTB rules for vampires already state that the newly created ones are weak.

>Or the Medusa child that can petrify.
Starts out as an X/day paralyze gaze and gets stronger. Might even start it off as a slowing gaze but if M-Us can have Sleep, that seems like overkill.

>> No.77582643

It's a joke supplement, but it's an okay joke depending on your tastes.

>> No.77582740

>Do you find this actually improving the game? I don't see why adding a table to each trap type (Limiting you to only those categories listed) would add much but arbitrary distinction.
I like it more than a 2-in-6 for every trap. I also see this as a framework, I can imagine any new trap and give players an X-in-12 chance for finding it. This is assuming that they haven't sussed out the "secret method" planned by the GM of finding and disarming it.

This also straight replaces the Search/Spot/Perception rolls of the d20 system. In fact I think that roll is a flat answer to the problem of finding traps that Old D&D has and that this thread is struggling with. Importantly, I like the d12 chance because it sets the chance of finding per trap basis, and not per character ability score. This is more logical to me and cuts out the need to put a modifier on the perception roll to detect trap.

>> No.77582741

I love OSR rules, the freedom and basicness of them. But when I sit down to make an osr dungeon I feel bored. I like making content for 3.pf even though I hate the powerwank and nonOSR aspects of the system. But I like statting monsters and traps, still make wandering monster tables and use dungeon turns when I run pathfinder. But it doesn't feel as legitimate. And it's not as fun as making a level 8 hobgoblin scout warmage with a double ended hammer. The ethos of the official rules helps me feel creative. Sure I can make that villain in osr but there is no mechanical effect. How do I escape this mindset?

>> No.77582765

I've been using the elegant fantasy creature/dungeon/artifact generator a lot recently and was wondering if anyone knows of a similar resource for traps?

>> No.77582773

That’s it thank you! It’s from For Glory #1 The Hexnomicon a DCC zine



>> No.77582839

2-in-6 is just for it to trigger, not to detect it, though. The chances to spot it are either 1-in-6 for everyone (Except Dwarves 2-in-6, fuck me I guess) or % based on level for the Thief, per B/X.

>replaces the Search/Spot/Perception rolls [...] that roll is a flat answer to the problem of finding traps that Old D&D has and that this thread is struggling with.
I think most people simply have the traps be spotted and have them be solved on the basis of the players describing how they circumvent it, and I prefer that approach myself over having to reference a table. After all assigning the trap a value between 1 and 12 is the same as assigning it a DC value, just limited to a range.

Great if it works for your group though, a flaw of the original books was that the distinction between trap types wasn't clear enough in resolution and this deals with that.

>> No.77582875

You can also have the corpse be jammed in the mechanism, and possibly have some visible source of loot on it. So the players can see that there is a trap, a piece of how it works, and a motivation to mess with it anyway. That weird hook door trap>>77581527 would be a good example. Once the trap reset there would be a corpse on the ground, blood everywhere, and a body dangling from the ceiling. Maybe the body is wearing nice armor, or a necklace that is jammed in the wall.

It gives players a reason to snoop around and maybe even trigger the trap on purpose. It's something you shouldn't overuse but it lets you quickly turn a gotcha trap into something for the PCs to investigate.

Another easy one is to have the trap be already sprung on the PCs first visit, and rearmed when they come back through.

>> No.77582927

>How do I escape this mindset?
The culture of the current year reinforces categorization of things, so creative humans tend to simply intersect existing categories to "create" new ones. It is the result of multiple generations of people conditioned through sanctioned media, which is the most easily available and easy to consume.
>Sure I can make that villain in osr but there is no mechanical effect.
Just take a hobgoblin, give him max HP and some magic items to make him do what you want. Maybe give him a couple levels in Magic-User. Now he's a "warmage" but you can call him whatever you want. Hobgoblins themselves are just some numbers on a page, so make him a giant turkey if you want. It's your game anon.

>> No.77582933

>>A resource tax is a perfectly valid purpose in the 'game design' sense, after all the name of the game IS time and resource management.
I'd argue it is invalid if there is no decision the player can make with regards to expending that resource. Otherwise it's just roll to avoid cost, there is no challenge, no game to it.
>> most modules seem to assume you have to roll anyways
Notoriously, different tsr writers presented various mechanics in their modules, often particular to a single situation. There definitely was a tendency towards a roll as resolution method, largely as a consequence of the desire for 'rules' over rulings. We know how that ended up.

>> No.77582971

What country are you in? This will help me ID the mini which looks to be a vampire or maybe a wight.

>> No.77583023

Is there a real reason for not considering 2e as OSR?
Like, its really really similar to 1e but more streamlined and the bad rules can be dropped

>> No.77583057

The book says if the trap has been sprung they automatically spot it.
Having the trap re-armed on repeat trips is a great idea.

There's no decision to be made in regards to a lot of resources. Torches? They have a linear basic use, there is no decision whether or not to use them because you always want to use them, same with rations. Combat encounters can be seen as the same type of resource drains as traps (Roll to avoid cost), yet they still remain mostly chance based affairs while most traps nowdays get run as more of a puzzle encounter.

>different tsr writers presented various mechanics in their modules
Agreed, it varies a lot depending on who wrote it, I even mentioned Mentzer's Basic encouraging you to play out traps and locked doors in a completely different way than the ones suggested in this thread or in other TSR books.

>'rules' over rulings. We know how that ended up.
Yes, that ended up with AD&D: Tournament Edition

I'll close the thread now I think I've talked enough about traps for at least a few threads worth of content.

I recommend Simulacrum's excellent article in the topic.

>> No.77583072

>After all assigning the trap a value between 1 and 12 is the same as assigning it a DC value
well yes, but no. DCs in 3e+ are at the mercy of player perception skills, such that one player with high spot/search/perception skill will always detect a trap, regardless of what it is unless the DC is very high, impossibly high for the other players. Also, this perception check can be used for anything, not just traps. The abstraction of the system is what makes it less appealing as a solution.

And against OSR systems, this chart makes finding common traps a simple die roll check, and is faster at the table than having players waste time poking and prodding and coming up with weird solutions to find a common trap. Otherwise traps become, as an anon mentioned earlier, a time or resource tax, where the paranoid players essentially accomplish nothing while the frustrated DM rolls continual wandering monster checks.

Just roll a die to detect simple traps. the d12 table I posted above is more in depth and variable than a simple 1-in-6 or 2-in-6 check for every trap.

>> No.77583085

More streamlined?

I don't think 2e is compatible with 1e stuff, which is what most people here seem to care about, but to me the most important part of OSR is the lack of resolution mechanics, which 2e has. Not to the extent of 3+ but they are still there.

>> No.77583176

Is it foe to turn stuff like open door and and thief skills into a modern version of skills? They function identically, but instead if a percentile It would be something like roll a d20, a 13+ succeeds and I'd just rip 5es proficiency for modifiers

>> No.77583177

>Is there a real reason for not considering 2e as OSR?
Nope. Who gave you that idea?
It's TSR-era.

>> No.77583179

>I don't think 2e is compatible with 1e stuff
It is.
>which 2e has
NWP are optional, otherwise the resolution mechanics are similar to 1e (Saving throws, X-in-6, roll under ability score, % check).

>Otherwise traps become, as an anon mentioned earlier, a time or resource tax
I think that anon was specifically saying that running traps as abstract roll checks IS a resource tax and what you are describing (Paranoid players trying to disarm the mechanism through interactive narration) is NOT a resource tax to this anon but a challenge. Goes to show that both approaches have their boons and flaws.

Where's your d12 trap table from, anon?

>> No.77583267

>It is.
It... Is I guess. The adventures are significantly different.

>NWP are optional, otherwise the resolution mechanics are similar to 1e (Saving throws, X-in-6, roll under ability score, % check).

I guess I would just ask why you prefer the 2e versions then?

>> No.77583325

>Where's your d12 trap table from, anon?
Advanced Heroquest. The specific table I used is from a fan-made rerelease called "Enhanced Advanced HeroQuest"

>> No.77583331

player decides how many to take, encumbtance forces choices between treasure, torches, rations etc.
Is avoidable

>> No.77583343

>The adventures are significantly different.
Mechanically, they can be played with 1e or even OD&D.
The fact that they're story plot railroad garbage doesn't mean that they're not "compatible"

>> No.77583409

Yeah that's what I meant by agreeing. They are definitely compatible I just never really thought of them as compatible.lol

The lack of emphasis on player choice in 2e might really just exist in the modules that came out for 2e and not the game itself. I havn't played 2e in a very long time though.

>> No.77583477

Thulian Echos is one of the more interesting LotfP concept dungeons in that the first run through is a journal from hundreds of years before the actual party gets there. Lets the traps be lethal the first time though. I thought it was a fun idea.

>> No.77583488

You can have random hex features just like random encounters, as long as none of the features are world altering (eg a gigantic city ruled by dragon riding knights) or visible from other hexes (eg a mile high obsidian obelisk). If you have less than 100 hexes it's probably reasonable to give them a line of text each, but you don't necessarily want something bizarre in every hex unless you're doing a gonzo carcosa style thing.

It's more a matter of historical accident, imho. The early retroclone grogs liked AD&D1e, B/X, and OD&D, so that got a lot of attention early on. Might have something to do with 2e being the first big TSR release after Gary got the boot, as an influential segment of the revival movement was actually on a first name basis with him.

AD&D2 was also the era of scripted railroad modules, so it catches some flak because of that. For my part, I started with AD&D in the 90's and I still prefer B/X for the simplicity.

>psudeo industrial elements
For some reason it just occurred to me that Meiji Japan is probably the template for a lot of Japanese fantasy, what with medieval culture mixing with pseudomagical industrial tech

>> No.77583496

Last post I'm making and then I'll stop shilling. My adventure released on drivethru, there's also a free pdf in this thread which you should get first


thanks for reading through it in advance

>> No.77583523

Just make a 20 room dungeon with the ad&d dmg and this pdf. Add a few generators as you go that you like. Let it sit for a day creatively, go back to it and edit. The beauty of simple seeming osr dungeon description comes out in gameplay with players interaction rather than elaborate over-planning ahead of time.

>> No.77583652

I was always the opposite, trying to do anything according to RAW in 3.5 was such a chore for me, and I'd often just wing it.

I suggest you try to focus on the situation and the dungeon as an environment. There's more complex and interesting design in that space than fiddling with 3.5 style templates. There's also nothing to stop you lifting mechanics you like from 3.5--a hobgoblin champion who attacks twice per round with a whirling double warhammer sounds fine. One of the liberating things about running old school is that the opponents don't need to use the same rules as player characters.

>> No.77583679

USA, northern Wisconsin specifically.
heres the other side.

>> No.77584034

Lotta 2efags trying to slide the thread in here.
Yeah, there's a real reason, everything in the explanatory text of the game militates against old-school gameplay (along with the modules) and crucial rules were changed along the same lines. The DMG being a dried-out husk is part of this. Dragonlance and its business model had fully colonized the game by the point 2e came out.

But also your post is bait.

>> No.77584069

>It's more a matter of historical accident, imho.
It's not. The revival is about the revival of a specific style of play, not just of an amorphous group of rulesets released by TSR. 2e doesn't serve that style of play. It's not accidental at all.

>> No.77584093

Congrats on finishing your module, anon!

>> No.77584141

>2e doesn't serve that style of play
That's very debatable, especially considering AD&D 2e is basically 1e with very minor changes.

>> No.77584280

no its not, its a legit question

both system look similar enough if you remove some optional rules from 2e

>> No.77584296

Look, if it were up to me, the entire Advanced line would go into the FOE pile with it's retarded authoritative "THESE ARE THE RULES, FOLLOW THEM OR YOU ARE PLAYING WRONG" Businessman Gygax rhetoric and over-emphasis on a metric fuckton of rules. But I don't go around discussing that shit, because it is absolutely pointless to do when you are talking about DECADES OLD GAMES: literally nothing is going to change regardless of the outcome of the debate. I don't *love* AD&D, but I think we're all better off together than divided by a senseless edition war.

So perhaps, maybe, next time we could discuss how to turn the Dragonlance modules into a nice sandboxy campaign, instead of drowning our thread in "REE FOE".

>> No.77584305

Or if you add some optional rules that were in 1e UA already, like NWP.


>> No.77584317

Waist up he looks like a classic generic fantasy ne'er-do-well, waist down he looks like a coy femme fatale rogue with thigh-high boots. But what's that peaking out under the tunic?

>> No.77584319


>> No.77584368

>Hobgoblins themselves are just some numbers on a page, so make him a giant turkey if you want.
This pisses me off maybe that's part of my problem. I hate refluffing. I like statting stuff. I guess maybe I should fuck off and play warhammer but you are right I do like mixing and matching existing options to make something new even though I'm not really creating anything. And I am obsessed with using "official" stuff even though most of it is horribly designed. I could see myself making an entire hexcrawl of hobgoblin fortresses the PCs need to take over or assassinate the leaders of, each with a different prestige class or muticlass combo hobgoblin npc. Making that stuff is fun for me. But when it comes to the actual 3.5 combat, I hate that after level 10 it's basically power attacking each other to death with 2 handed weapons or using save or die spells and playing guess who is immune to what. 5e is better but also didn't use the same system for NPCs and has much less content. And combat doesn't matter in either system cause of how easy it is to heal. Which makes me want to either remove clerics from bx or make homebrew whre they need downtimesnd gold for herbs to do healing spells.

I digress though. I guess it's just autism of enjoying mixing elements. Like mtg.

>> No.77584386

First of all, that's a silly standard. Vampire looks like 1e too if you remove some bad rules and add a few new ones.

Secondly, to the extent it's true at all, it's only true on a pure system level, while all the actual writing of the game argues against an old-school play style.

Third, "2e is OSR" is a meme propagated literally only in this general, because local 2efags want to piggyback on it and for some reason think they can change the generally accepted definitions of old-school and OSR. You'll get laughed out of Dragonsfoot or K&KA if you push this shit. At least K&KA will most likely ban you as well.

>> No.77584402

>I hate refluffing
>I am obsessed with using "official" stuff even though most of it is horribly designed
Yeah this is not the type of game for you. No hate, it just isn't.

>> No.77584409

>that making them somehow comparable requires a ridiculous amount of jank.
You're not thinking big enough. We all know that passage from LBB about letting players play as a dragon. You are not limited by anything other than your own imagination when it comes to letting players play left-field races.

Plus: In a game with so much emphasis on player ability, how powerful a character is is truly not that relevant, especially in a world consciously designed around that. We've all had experiences where a low-powered character ended up being the most effective member of the group because the player played them well. The same works both ways. Just because a character can be stronger than the rest doesn't mean the game is broken—that's one of the virtues of OSR and old-school D&D over newer systems. Certain challenges may be trivialized, but others will always become more difficult as a consequence.

>> No.77584443

2e as written, the 2e that actually exists, doesn't serve that style of play. The key point is that it's not a "historical accident" that old-school refers to the 1974-era play style and really only covers things made deliberately and explicitly for that style. The people who actually revived the old-school had a clear idea of what they were doing and why, much clearer than >>77583488 apparently does.

>> No.77584454

>-a hobgoblin champion who attacks twice per round with a whirling double warhammer sounds fine.
But he also could move around the battlefield and do extra dmage with scorching rays thanks to skirmish. And sicken people with his warhammer blows for debuff. I get that combat isn't a central part of OSR but I liked the depth of mechanics 3.5 had while also liking the dispassionate worldbuilding and focus on player skill and meaningful decisions. I want to combat to be more than rolling dice. I want it to have some indepth strategy. More so than 3.5 even 4e had. But idk how to do that. And either way it's probably FOE GYG anyway.

>> No.77584475

>I hate refluffing. I like statting stuff.
The real canard here is that since monster stat blocks are so basic in D&D you're always going to refluff something when you make a new monster, unless their stat array is totally out-there (like, a 1-10HD creature with -1 AC but a -5 to-hit penalty). At a certain point statting new monsters is effectively just adding new abilities and flavor to old monsters, because the pre-existing monsters are so basic already.

>> No.77584477

You're agreeing with me in different words.
>The revival is about the revival of a specific style of play
Specific people revived that style (or really, certain elements of it--old school play was much less uniform than some think). They were fans of certain editions of the old game, and not others. I acknowledged in my post that the default flavor of 2e was halfway to nuschool fantasy superheroes.

3e is where skills, feats, prestige classes, OP spell lists, challenge ratings, XP for monster hunting only, etc etc completely eclipsed the old game.

>> No.77584481

But it is. I love playing osr. I love creating stuff for it. It is just missing the pointless accounting in monster creation and stuff that I came to enjoy. So it feels incomplete.

>> No.77584577

>So it feels incomplete.
One of the biggest draws of the OSR and the reason why B/X and OD&D (and to a lesser extent AD&D) are still played today is because they are, in a sense, "incomplete" systems, and invite people to add their own ideas and interpretations. Ignore the other anon who says OSR isn't for you

>> No.77584797

I am not so sure about the modules but the Dragonlance setting itself is great place for sandbox campaign.

>> No.77584804

Adding combat moves and abstract strategy to combat is a temptation that some people succumb to. While that kind of closed system strategy can be satisfying (in the same way that you can master a board game), it misses out on some of the open ended fun that's possible with highly abstracted old school combat.

I enjoy old school combat because it can be resolved in a couple minutes with die rolls. Dodging, parrying, armor, critical hits, etc is all abstracted in the attack and damage roll. In this mode, the choice of when and how to fight is much more interesting than choosing whether to use the Sword Dance maneuver or the Advanced Power Attack special ability.

I do enjoy giving players new tools to interact with the world, so I do have a FOEish 'stunt' mechanic for Fighters that gives them an edge on chandelier swinging antics.

>> No.77584976

It's open ended in the sense that every maneuver you attempt is still a modifier to hitting AC/THACO?

>> No.77585037

In 1E, is there any reason to play a male drow if you're not a magic-user?

>> No.77585210

This is where your imagination is failing you

Choices you can make that don't involve making numbers go up or down
>try to set up an ambush and focus fire on a leader, hopefully forcing a morale check
>have a henchmen bait an enemy into a chokepoint or a trap before entering melee
>pushing opponents off a ledge or other environmental factors
>drawing them into the open with a pile of treasure and sweeping down on them with half a dozen henchmen on horseback

I allow pretty much any maneuver the players describe (except "I hit him in the head", because everyone in a deadly melee is trying to hit their enemy's weakest point).

Yes, a plain pitched battle on open ground is just tossing dice, and it will go to the stronger party unless you have a run of really bad luck, but it's also really easy and fast to run.

>> No.77585221

I've been interested in playing b/x but the lack of classes is kind of a downer to me. Could I lift ranger from, say, swords & wizardry and use it as is?

>> No.77585241

you can do whatever your heart desires anon
OSE advanced fantasy has a lot of classes already converted to B/X

>> No.77585245

Most of the issue with that has to do with hp bloat in my experience. More hp means pc need to do more damage means why would you topple a bookcase for 1d6 when you could full attack for 70 damage. You are right I just sometimes desire a game where someone can be good at playing fighters.

>> No.77585284

I was thinking in particular that sort of called shot everyone attempts at least once (As you say, "I hit him in the head")
What do you roll for disarming, pushing and tripping?

>> No.77585301

He has a point though. I have two competing desires in me for what I want from DnD. I don't know if they are truly at odds or not. I think 5e has good enough monster design that it's quick to but still has some depth to it. Bx is even quicker but feels less fun because there is less detail. Even less meaningful detail too. If 5e had death at 0 hp and healing was 1 hp per day, I'd hardly see a particularly important different between the two combat systems. Besides huge hp and damage numbers.

>> No.77585411

>What do you roll for disarming, pushing and tripping?
Pushes and trips are just attack rolls that do a thing instead of damage. Disarming is effectively defeating your opponent, so that's just what happens if you don't want to kill him when you get him down to 0 HP.

>> No.77585465

I agree, and it is a potential downside that a lot of old school "maneuvers" are tremendously reliant on GM fiat, whereas 3.5 "whirlwind attack" just does what it says it does.

I still prefer the eccentricities of old school, because it's easy to switch things up and find a style that works for your table. Whereas trying to do that in 3.5 was much more fiddly--classic example being that, if you house rule disarming to make it viable at level one, you're nerfing the fighter who took feats to get better at it.

I do have a stunt mechanic for fighters. They can do just about any stunt they like, but they take 1d6 damage (so you can see how this would be risky at low levels, and get much more useful at higher levels).

I would use that for disarming or called shots. Tripping maybe as well. NPC fighters only use it sparingly because it's kind of unabashedly a 'hero move'.

Pushing would just be an auto success if the PC is significantly stronger than the opponent (only stupid or desperate enemies fight with their heels ten inches from a 100' drop off). In general, I find it doesn't hurt the game much to let players kick ass when they have a good idea--the hard part is getting players to come up with those good ideas!

Nonfighters can attempt a lot of the same things, but it will be more random. Pushing an enemy off a cliff might be a straight strength check, and the enemy may get a free attack roll to grab on and try to take you down with him.

>> No.77585595

You can houserule anything, but at some point you're so far from the original that it's debatable whether you want the $45 hardcovers if you're tossing out half the game and tweaking the other half.

I'm accustomed to the old school structure so it's just easier for me to stick with that. To the degree 5e is similar to old school, that's exactly why I'm not interested in using it.

>> No.77585680

Finally got the three core books for AD&D as well as N1.

Advice on running N1?

>> No.77585825

I am also on board with this solution, of just letting the players play whatever and having everyone deal with it.
That runs into a different problem, which is making it harder for the GM to come up with a balanced experience for the party because of the power gaps.
I started from this post here:

>> No.77586039

No, no no. That's what I meant.

The what generator?

>> No.77586572

I've played OSRIC before, but it'll be my first time DMing for any system, and Im planning on running a game for people who've never played an OSR system before. Which module(s) would you recommend?

>> No.77586622

Maybe try a simpler system.
B1 is good
Zanzer's Dungeon

>> No.77586949

Kowolski is probably the strongest LotFP contributor. Scenic Dunnsmouth is an absolute gem. I'm definitely going to read Thulian Echoes again as I develop this concept some.

>> No.77587198

Neither B1 nor Zanzer's Dungeon are good.
But at least Zanzer's Dungeon is fun.
B3 if you want a starter dungeon that's both good and fun.

>> No.77587218

As the other anon suggested OSE will scratch your itch.
It is also trivially easy to introduce supplemental material to B/X. There's more than a few published and homebrew collections of interesting class collections out there. The key is incorporating things that develop the style of your milieu. Check out B/X Adventurer, the Dolmenwood demi-humans, and Against the Wicked City.
As always it's best to be sparing with stuff like this but there is absolutely no reason to feel constrained.

>> No.77587321

You guys are both spoton. I guess there's no real middle ground tht doesn't irreversibly taint things for one side. I.e. the two styles or philosophies are essentially mutually exclusive. Thanks for the rellies anyways though.

>> No.77587584

>It is just missing the pointless accounting in monster creation and stuff that I came to enjoy
Might be worth investigating other games for this. I go to /awg/ for that sort of thing. Making little plastic men & monsters, then having them fight does a fiddly itching I like, but don't find suits osr gameplay. ymmv.

>> No.77587596 [DELETED] 

Thanks for recommending One Page Armies guys, i'll be able to fit 2-3 forces and objective markers in my Feldherr mini case.

>> No.77587763

AD&D more like GAYD&D

>> No.77587866

N1 has all the advice contained within its own text

>> No.77587963

NAYRT (I only wrote the turkey reply), but with 5e you still have cantrips which trivialize dungeon crawling like Light, let alone the higher level spells. 3e/PF/4e/5e are all about builds, the most important part of the game happen outside of the game - making the character, both stats and backstory. Because dungeon and wilderness exploration no longer has any risk, combat becomes the focus. This is emphasized by all the combat feats/class abilities.
>I think 5e has good enough monster design that it's quick to but still has some depth to it.
You could try running an OSR game with monsters from the 5e MM, since monsters run on their own subsystem anyway. My guess is that you will find not much of a difference. Low level monsters like kobolds might have a "pack tactics" ability in 5e but in OSR systems anyone can benefit from attacking an opponent in the back (as it should be). These slight differences won't matter much in actual play. It's a matter of presentation. Dragons in 1e won't have "legendary actions" or whatever but they still act like dragons.

>> No.77588177

based punner

>> No.77588231

Ok I'm kinda lost, what was the name of the work that was a remaking of the old D&D edition but with cool and modern art? Otherwise what systems are remakings of such editions which are compatible with old modules like the Tomb of Horrors?

>> No.77588256

Please enjoy this complimentary PDF, kindly assembled by Anon to answer your question.

>> No.77588288

For the first, I have no idea what you're referring to (and most fans of old D&D don't consider modern art to be cool, instead seeing it as a mixture of bland and cartoonish/pauldroncore).

As for what systems are remakes, that's practically all of them: the whole point of the OSR was to revisit old D&D, and so compatibility with it is extremely common (though less so today, as more and more people just slap the label on any old fantasy indie game). The most popular examples of that would be Old-School Essentials and OSRIC.

>> No.77588309

>what was the name of the work that was a remaking of the old D&D edition but with cool and modern art?
Depends on which old edition it was. Old School Essentials, Lamentations of the Flame Princess and Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerors of Hyperborea are all candidates.

>> No.77588505

FF1 is literally just BX, run that instead.

>> No.77588532

Old School Essentials seems nice, I need to find a pdf for the complete of it now...

>> No.77588601

It's on the trove, go nab it.

>> No.77588629

About the Trap discussion. I think the balance between occasional balanced traps and 'luck' based ones is the best. Some traps are 'skill' based as in, do you dare go deeper into this dungeon while you're low on HP? This is ultimately up to player's skill of decision making

>> No.77588829

Traps are always interesting due to the different degrees that people run it. Some people run it in the btb, "you walk into a hallway, a pit opens up beneath you and you die." And others run it like traps are a puzzle where the wrong approach can injure the party.

>> No.77589117

A little goodie I think most of you will appreciate.


Somebody made a really cool Conan animation. Really feels like something out of the stories.

>> No.77590714

I know Frazetta drew him with bangs but I still can't take them seriously.

>> No.77590728

That was really fucking cool. Reminded me of "Red Nails"

>> No.77590946

Thanks, lad! This was pretty well done!

If I'm honest, I thought the speed/weight in the weapon animations was a bit off but it's clear this guy has great potential, I'm betting he'll get there with experience.

>> No.77591556

I could use some help figuring out treasure in B/X or LL. I'm restocking a dungeon and realized that Giant Rats have treasure type C (in B/X) or XX (in LL) which is...fucking huge. 1,000 GP average, but specifically:

20% 1d12 * 1000 CP
30% 1d4 * 1000 SP
10% 1d4 * 1000 EP
25% 1d4 gems
10% any two magic items

Am I doing this wrong? I feel like I'm doing this wrong, because 3d6 giant rats sitting on top of (possibly) 12,000 pennies seems fukkin' wild. Please help.

>> No.77591708

Rats our hoarders. They probably have a ton of worthless shit (figuratively and literally) on top of the shiny stuff they find.
Howard described him as having "square-cut hair" which always seemed kind of goofy to me

>> No.77591808

You can always flesh it out. And treasure type can simply mean "this treasure is found nearby", not necessarily that the monster is directly collecting it.
>the rats gnaw on the bones of an unfortunate tomb robber, whose treasure bags lie scattered about
>A small chest sits in an alcove nearby
You can also convert coppers to its equivalent in silver, but in many cases it's smart to drop or ignore coins for more portable treasure anyways.

>> No.77591838

>each rat has been lovingly tattooed with gold infused ink
Probably a lot of options here.

>> No.77592115

My players have come to refer to them as gold rats, and have been way more excited facing them than anything else. I guess like >>77591708 says, they're hoarders. Personally I enjoy some of the quirks in the treasure tables like that.

>> No.77592208

Maybe they're literal packrats. Okay, as long as I'm not totally smooth-braining this. Congrats, players, you get to figure out how to get 17,000 coins out of the dungeon...

>> No.77592383

>square-cut hair
I'm having trouble even picturing that. I've only seen the movies, I'm waiting until I can afford the Del Rey collection in hardback.

>> No.77592393

Anybody ran a campaign where the megadungeon is IN the starting town? Diablo style? Is it weird or is it good? I'm still planning on having a wilderness around, but I feel it would simplify things a lot. I'm asking because in my current game (2+years OD&D campaign) players have to travel to get to the megadungeon and I feel sometimes it bugs down thing for no reasons and it doesn't encourage them to get there in the first place since they can just travel to other places too for the same risks.

>> No.77592408

How often do you let your players take downtime actions? I usually see a week, but I was thinking of using months instead.

>> No.77592547

What do you mean "let"?

>> No.77592552

>I'm restocking a dungeon
>Giant Rats have treasure type C
For the umpteenth time, you're not meant to use treasure types to stock dungeons! They're for *wilderness lairs*.

>> No.77592795

What's the difference between TT listed in brackets and not?

>> No.77592901

That's basically how Undermountain is.

>> No.77593097

Wait, I didn't read closely enough. Yeah, what>>77592552 said.

>> No.77593142

Try Retro Phaze.

>> No.77593186

New thread:


>> No.77593339

Bracketed treasure types are the ones individual monsters carry with them, yes. Unintelligent creatures virtually never have these.

Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.