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77135913 No.77135913 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>The 'Mortal Realms'
>One of them is literally the Afterlife where immortal shades and death-gods reside

>> No.77135943

Nothing's immortal in Warhammer. It's more atheistic than outright materialism.

>> No.77135951

>age of smegma

there's your problem

>> No.77136107

This is not 2015 anon, not any more.

>> No.77136127

Yes, AoS has one of the worst fantasy settings ever imagined, we know. It's not a controversial statement.

>> No.77136145

All of DnD settings still exist anon, so it's not even correct on current /tg/

>> No.77136159

Oh hey, you must be new to fantasy settings.

>> No.77136166

I wish it was tho

>> No.77136230

>realm of death, the literal afterlife
>billions of living mortals make it their home anyways

>> No.77136262

No joke, even Matt Mercer's shitty homebrew is better than the Mortal Realms. If you want to go worse than AoS in terms of worldbuilding, you have to turn to stuff like Eragon.

>> No.77136331

AoS is lower middle at it's absolute worst and upper middle at its absolute best. It's definitely not the best fantasy setting, but it's nowhere near one of the worst.

>> No.77136339

Well since I came to look into AoS in it's second edition I don't see the shit you were complaining about since that was retconned out of existence mostly, as I see something that is better then most DnD and general RPG settings where you got something more in like with Exalted but not a bad wank fest....or just one of those weird ass myths, with tentacles, dicks and weird ass imagary.

>> No.77136396

It's a mythic fantasy setting with dumb names (Thanks chapterhouse) If you go in expecting something more gritty or down to earth, you'll fucking hate it and consider it a terrible setting, but if you go in looking for something like he-man mixed with a dash of mythology, you probably won't hate it as much. I fucking hate game of thrones and think it's a shit setting, but that's cause I don't really care for low fantasy and game of thrones is literally just some dude's fanfic about the war of the roses that he added a couple magic things here and there to so more people would buy it cause no one likes historical fiction.

>> No.77136418

Yes but if you want gritty down to earth yo ucan just play in AoS ecause it was made to allow that sort of shit, heck it's what few of new novels are about

>> No.77136449

Arguably the new warhammer quest is aiming in that direction, with it going for a more classic "A dracula has taken over a city somewhere, go fix that" approach. Granted it's still gonna probably have a Kharadon in it... and maybe an orc or an ogre... some big lad.

>> No.77136468

So mortheim, if they made it mortheim without shitty bit of rules it would be neat, and heck we had story in novels of a random mayor making a deal with goblins and it going wrong.

>> No.77136485

I rather enjoy lots of short stories AoS got, like one which is garden of something delights, it's story of a bitch of a dryad forced to work for a cult, feels like fairy tales in a good way.

>> No.77136512

what are these wondrous creatures? Did you mean Orruk™ Ironjawz™ or Ogor™ Mawtribe™ members?

>> No.77136516

Nah, it's very much in low tier. It's not the worst fantasy setting ever but the sheer lack of internal consistency and thought put into it makes it an extremely poor offering. If you want high flying mythic adventure with multiple planes of existence, there's far better settings. Planescape is better for that, MtG is better for that, shit even Exalted is better.

>> No.77136520

Anon even books call em orcs and ogres if you are hung up on that then you are really not in a place to talk when dawi and druchi exist.

>> No.77136526

Hard to discuss AoS on /tg/ as most people who wanna talk about it often know only memes that are 5 years old by now or things that are no longer canon.

>> No.77136529

Sigmar and Faerun eat up the Old World by miles.
It won't be missed

>> No.77136530

It's honestly astonishing that people can't seem to wrap their head around the fact that the mortal realms are just a fantasy equivalent of the 40k galaxy, big enough that pretty much anything you can think of can have a place. Do you want to make literal Eternia where you have a he-man analogue prince fight a skeletor analogue Ossiarch? Go for it. Want to make an area that has a continent spanning empire that's basically just rome but the different ethnicities are fantasy races and the barbarians at the border are hordes of orcs and goblins? You can do that. Want to make a place that's basically just naggarond from WHFB? GW already beat you to it, it's called Har-kuron (Formerly Anvilgard). It's meant to be "Your dudes" friendly, while also giving you an excuse to fight rapidly different dudes with the realmgates, but sadly people just don't seem to value creativity anymore.

>> No.77136532

Let's not go crazy here

>> No.77136538

Man your internet must be shit given that it took you almost six years to post that.

>> No.77136540

names are rarely perfect

>> No.77136541

Basically to put it in rather blunt way, AoS is similar to early warhammer when making it, bunch of dumb references and ideas throw together and now slowly patched.

>> No.77136554

It did not become better in the intervening years.
It's dumb as fuck. It simultaneously opts for the "All possible worlds" approach and a rigid adherence to a specific aesthetic, rejection of the world upon which it is based and just straight up taking the characters .from there.
Ultimately though all of that would be forgivable if it was fun and interesting though, but it's not really.
A solid 3/10

>> No.77136556

Mtg had some pretty cool worlds pre 2008.
Old Dominaria vs Yawgmoth Phyrexia? Yum

>> No.77136563

>wahhhh everyone that doesn't accept the Mortal Realms as the perfect best fantasy setting ever is stuck in 2015
You people are a genuine embarrassment. I play the game, I know the lore. The setting is bad, but gradually getting better.

>> No.77136574

Pretty much. The only reason the old world is viewed in the esteem it is is that it had a 35 year run of getting stuff written for it. Early whfb and 40k were stupid as hell, but as time went by they ironed out a lot of the stupidity and inconsistency to form a cohesive setting. Which is how most settings work, you ever have just a disorganized pile of random ideas that don't really fit well together at first, or you have a couple cohesive ones and everything else is vague as hell cause you literally haven't gotten around to thinking of that yet.

>> No.77136578

It's generally not even that bad, it's different because I rather enjoy playing about AoS because I can just use old ideas from WHFB that got reconned in it's shit editions.

>> No.77136580

Most of the MtG planes are actually good settings, and Dominaria itself is great. It certainly has a far superior multiverse to AoS. The only real issue with MtG is a very recent glut of uninspired artists and extremely poor character writers for the main cast of characters.

>> No.77136584

Only difference is that AoS had really really shit start compared to other two.

>> No.77136585
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Nagash is the best, so he gets to bend the rules like this. Plus there is some unknown Super-Death where souls go after they fade away from Shyish

>> No.77136586

I never said it was good. It's pretty mediocre all things considered. I just said it wasn't bad.

>> No.77136591

I think it's rather clear that a lot of the newer stuff in general is trying to course correct into a more WHFB type aesthetic. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line factions like Fyreslayers get a big redesign and the world is pulled together into something more cohesive. Stormcast will probably stay the same, but at least the design team seems to understand that unlike Marines, they're not actually liked enough to focus on.

It's also possible that GW are trying to cheat and make lots of models that are also usable in The Old World.

>> No.77136617

To be fair dude, when WHFB and 40K started GW was like two dudes in a garage. They couldn't be expected to put out a huge, fleshed out setting for their line of custom D&D minis. These days games tend to launch with settings that are far more coherent and well designed than that.

At the very least, I think AoS needs a big shakeup of its core elements to approach being a good setting. For one, it needs drop all the lore that sprouted from early attempts to justify still selling old WHFB models. All of that stuff is verisimilitude-breaking nonsense and has to go.

>> No.77136621

Not denying that.
Not really? I mean if you only are talking about the vampires then I guess you have a point but its pretty clear that they're not trying to go for a more WHFB aesthetic, except for in the case of adding models to armies that are mostly WHFB models in which case they kind of have to in order to keep the visual style consistent.

>> No.77136654

I'm not sure how much of that old lore is even still left. Every WHFB leftover has been in at least one tome where they had new fluff written about them... and lizards even had two where they literally did just that

>> No.77136663

> even books call em orcs and ogres
BL is not canon

>> No.77136664

Please, Mirrodin absolutely dunks on Chamon, Lorwyn is far superior to Ghyran, Phyrexia is better than literally any concept in AoS, etc. Even the newer cultural theme park planes that I could mostly do without are more intricately designed than the Realms.

>> No.77136685

Fuck off anon.

>> No.77136707

The old planes you have a point with, the new theme park planes are where you're just fucking stupid. The theme park planes are lazy as fuck, and the only original plane in recent years is also the literal worst in magic's history and is the second worst place in the multiverse to live. Magic's worldbuilding team has gone to complete shit, and unless they're working from a paint by numbers kit, it shows REALLY hard, since the more original they try to make their new planes, the worse they get.

>> No.77136747
File: 326 KB, 1037x833, elf483.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I would replace Sylvaneth with Lorwyn elves in a heartbeat and never look back. I'd actually love an MtG miniatures game even if it would need an incredibly contrived reason for how all the factions are fighting.

>> No.77136775

I'd love a mtg miniatures game too (Not that one), and i'd buy the hell out of a wargame based off the blood war from planescape.

>> No.77136837

I'd prefer that places like Theros were left out, but they are objectively more fleshed out and internally consistent than the Realms. Tarkir was good.

>> No.77136872

no offence anon, but your taste is shit, sylvaneth are only good wood elfs I seen in ages.

>> No.77136875

Unfortunately I think if they made a proper wargame, it's just be Ravnica based. Which isn't bad, but... I dunno, there's cooler stuff. I'd rather be running the Keldon hordes or the Phyrexians or the Gilt-Leaf elves than Orzhov or Dimir.

>> No.77136885

>Oh boy, another plane split into 5 or 10 rival groups that correspond to a color or combination of colors.

>> No.77136898

Sylvaneth have some of the worst designs I've ever seen. They're the most basic bitch concept for doing "lol so original" elves. Hurr, let's make them trees! Even fucking Guild Wars did it first, and better, and its version was shit too.

>> No.77136914

No anon there is nice simplicity in that, only good thing about wood elfs and elfs in general are monsters next to them, elfs are the part you need to drop to have anything good, I rather enjoy my hive mind of evil tree bitches.

>> No.77136928

>No anon there is nice simplicity in that
It's called creative bankruptcy and it's shit.

>> No.77136938

Anon that describes MTG rather well, and I can enjoy things that aren't uber original, this is why I like both WHFB and AoS.

>> No.77136943

I can't take anyone who thinks the tree-mechs look good seriously, sorry.

>> No.77136961

... That's not what I mean by theme park, though i'll freely admit theros (or innistrad) was the first one. Tarkir was the last plane where they actually fleshed things out and didn't just design pump and dump planes. After tarkir you have:
Kaladesh, which was extremely fleshed out... but lol who cares since we're not leaving this city.
Amonkhet, which was "Hey, that whole only focusing on a city was a good idea, let's make the entire plane LITERALLY just one city and everything else is just shit desert"
Ixalan which was "Well we have a bunch of different concepts that we don't think can stand well on their own, let's just throw them all together and try to make it fit."
Eldrane which was "Fuck it just do fairy tales"
Ikora which was just.... Too much wrong about this place to get into... but at least it's original?
Kaldheim, which is just "Fuck it do norse myths"
and next up is strixhaven which is just gonna "Fuck it do harry potter. Oh wait, everyone hates JK rowling now? Uhhhh...."
It's not exactly hard to achieve internal consistency when you're just copying someone else's notes.

>> No.77136966

I am not referring to that one anon, I am just refering to only good part of wood elfs, which was the trees. But I too can say that I can't take anyone seriously who complains about AoS nowdays....It's just possition of a newfag pretending to be oldfag...Sorry.

>> No.77136982

MTG was pretty creative pre-Amonkhet. Lorwyn elves vs Sylvaneth are a pretty good example of this: Lorwyn elves manage to be weird and visually interesting with a mad culture while still being recognizable as elves, whereas Sylvaneth go the boring route of just being plant person elves that are just generic protecc the fores types.

>> No.77136995

Yes, ents are far superior to elfs, so I am not really sure why it's bad to just replace elfs with that.

>> No.77136999

Asserting that something can't be criticized and calling anyone with criticisms a newfag is a sure sign that you have no ability to defend your position. Thank you for admitting it outright rather than drawing this out.

>> No.77137001

I'd argue that they stopped being creative somewhere before or during kaladesh's design. Since while the world of kaladesh is quite fleshed out, they don't fucking do ANYTHING with it outside of the ONE city

>> No.77137026

Well anon, I am not big on MTG sorry it's just too expensive for me, compared to AoS it's waste of money so I pay it no attention, and from what I seen when I used to play DnD it was boring pile that made AoS look good.

>> No.77137038

The Legion of Dusk would be great as something introduced on Innistrad. Like, now that the mists surrounding the main continent are gone with the disruption of Sorin's leyline bullshit, the Legion could have invaded from the outside.

Anyway, you're partly right. There are some cool concepts on all these planes but mostly they're boring. Kaldheim is actually okay, with some nice takes on classic stuff, but marred by some unfortunate art. Hopefully we'll get back to interesting stuff in a year or two.

>> No.77137051

DnD lore is a lot more spread out than the lore of warhammer or even magic. it's only sometimes in some books... though i don't know how accurate that is now.

>> No.77137072

Ya, but more talking of artworks and monsters they just felt like.....lazy ideas same way some AoS monsters were lazy before second ed.

>> No.77137076

That's just a lack of ambition in regard to story.

Really though, I have little interest in following Chandra and Nissa's Nissas around doing whatever the Fantasy Avengers do these days. The worldbuilding is far more interesting than that shit - the only time MtG had compelling protagonists was part of Time Spiral, the OG Ravnica block, Kamigawa, and Lorwyn. Everyone wanks the Weatherlight but the best thing about that entire era was how cool the places and things on Dominaria were, and how badass Phyrexia and Yawgmoth seemed.

>> No.77137097

Legion would fit perfect on innistrad. I just wish that wizards had the balls to fucking portray them in a good light, since even as shitty as the spaniards were... They were still better than the aztecs.
I'd also like to take an aside to whine about how magic completely dropped the fucking ball with the design of the sun empire by just making them a generic medival knight asthetic, but with weird mounts, darker skin, and more feathered headdresses. I don't even know if there's a single maquahitl in the entire block, everyone in the sun empire's just a fucking knight wearing plate mail and riding animals instead of a bunch of dudes who have near superhuman speed and endurance since they have to walk everywhere on their own and wear battle-kigurumis with excessively fancy back banners.

>> No.77137113

Do you know what edition of DnD you were looking at?
The last time we had a story with walkers as side characters was in innistrad (And arguably RtR)
The last time a planeswalker focused story arc went well was... Either original zendikar block, or Tarkir.

>> No.77137114
File: 79 KB, 620x497, Phyrexian_Negator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Phyrexians are too kino for modern gaming.

>> No.77137231

5e it was when I was starting out playing /tg/ games and it was years ago, had a MTG fan player who wanted to play in that setting and gave me some pdfs to read up on it.

>> No.77137290

Which is why they're bringing them back
Yeah... 5e is forgotten realms, which is only really good if you go behind wizard's back and read the shit that it's creator, Ed "it's only incest if someone gets pregnant, otherwise it's just family bonding" Greenwood writes about on his own website where everything is canon. It's pretty telling that the best art for 5e is the stuff from 3.5. 5e art tries too hard to be fantasy art, whereas a lot of 3.5 art, at least in the monster manuals, looks like it'd be illustrations you'd see in an in-universe guide to monsters. The draconomicon from 3.5 is fucking amazing with this

>> No.77137295

No I am refering to MTG suppliments for 5e.

>> No.77137307

3,5 art is something I am familiar with, and I will be honest, it's something awful, like both older and newer warhammer fantasy art makes it look bad, and I say this as someone who got into DnD at 3,5

>> No.77137369

Ah, that explains everything then. They're just gonna use magic artists for the magic setting and magic has shit art now.
The actual class characters? Yes. I can agree with you there
Monsters? No

>> No.77137391

The fact you think that means mordheim means you never played that game

>> No.77137408

In style anon, in rules I never played it because among older GW specialist games it was one that was least decent.

>> No.77137418

Monster books I never got my hands on, I just kinda dropped it soon because it just felt like someone got no clue what they were making with 3.5, granted 5e feels like that too, DnD generally feels a bit shite.

>> No.77137433


>> No.77137470

Well just search up "Monster manual 3.5 on google and you can find a pdf really quickly. The art of the example characters in the PHB was shit though. the PHB probably has some of the worst art in all of 3.5

>> No.77137567
File: 160 KB, 620x478, phyrexian rager.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Which is why they're bringing them back
I doubt that they'll be as rad as they once were.

>> No.77137576

When I said they're bringing them back I didn't mean to come off as if I thought that was a good thing. I meant it in the most pessimistic way possible

>> No.77137714
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I really love how these threads are basically some anons denigrating over and over again the specific setting but will not have the balls to tell what setting they actually like out of abject fear of seeing what they love getting teared to pieces, it really reflects the inherent cowardly nature of some of the "lunch money" losers who post here the whole day. Hey, not my problem if you feel like I am talking about you.

>> No.77137886

I dont have one favorite setting anon, I like 40k, but I aknowledge how fucking dumb it is, I just like parts I use to play campaigns with my friends, rest of it we just don't use or ignore.

>> No.77137988

I really like planescape. It and 3.5 were my gateway to tabletop so they'll always hold a place in my heart

>> No.77138015

>please anon, tell me what you like so I can deflect from how shit my taste is and derail the thread
you need to work on your bait. Ask one anon or the other how he likes thing x in setting y instead of basically begging to offer you an attack surface. Hope that this could help you

>> No.77138059

If you kludged some of the MtG planes together you'd actually get a fantastic fantasy horror setting for a wargame. The general idea would be a world that has had a vampire apocalypse in its past.

Start off with Innistrad as the continent of focus, cut off from the rest of the world by the supernatural mist that surrounds it. Have the initial factions be the Avacynian Church (synergistic shooty army), the Vampire Lords (durable elite army), the Circle of Ghoulcallers (horde army with powerful wizard leaders), the Werewolf Howlpacks (hyper aggressive fast army with less models but more wounds), and Lorwyn elves re-contextualized as nasty fey elves that live innawoods (super maneuverable ticksy army). Then do an event that introduces the Angelic Host and the Demon Cults as armies, following the basic storyline of the Helvault getting destroyed and Avacyn/Griselbrand being released, this causing the mists to around the continent to disperse. The next big expansion can then introduce Torrezon as the nearby Spain analogue and Zendikar as the 'new world' of the setting, with the Legion of Dusk and the Zendikari Bloodchiefs being brought in as armies.

Shit would be rad as hell.

>> No.77138133

Guess some people are going to remain tilted forever even if the thing they’re hating on has removed all of the problems they didn’t like it for in the beginning. Like dude, you’re getting the old world back eventually. It’s confirmed. You don’t have to keep hating the new game for invalidating all the old stories and rules crowding your otherwise empty head.

>> No.77138155

>people bring up criticisms
>don't engage with them, just screech that they're butthurt about something else
>after all, how could muh perfect setting have issues?
The only empty head here is yours.

>> No.77138170

> has removed all of the problems they didn’t like it for in the beginning
it hasn't, so your whole point is moot

>> No.77138193

If you’re talking about the overall lore (mostly the maps) yeah it’s weird and disjointed. If you’re talking about the individual army lores or any of the stories they’ve been coming out with involving recent events and narratives you’re straight wrong. Not saying it’s the best but the army specific stories and “current event story lines” rival anything in wfb. It’s just that people that want to hate something focus on the stuff that’s bad

>> No.77138242

Not a bad setting at all, just poorly used and explained when it came out. Like everything else (including 40k and warhammer fantasy) it becomes much cooler and more cohesive setting as you get used to it. 8 realms connected by gates that are fairly unique is no weirder than the lore for orks, tau, or the vampire count shit. The difference is time to get used to hearing about it. Considering how cool it is once you adjust, I’d say let it go old man.

>> No.77138275

Bait any day is still bait. I’m sorry you don’t enjoy your hobby. Maybe you’ll get over it and be happy some day.

>> No.77138316

>more desperate ad hominem
I'm not the one getting so frustrated at other people not liking an imaginary world for a game I like that I have to sperg out at them on the internet. Just accept that many people think the thing you like is bad and move on.

>> No.77138342
File: 944 KB, 1000x1097, sylvaneth16.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Why would you switch cool tree people for yet another elf reskin?

>> No.77138401

I'd argue that the storylines and characters are pretty bad. We haven't had an actual interesting new character full stop, which is probably why GW has turned to focusing primarily on legacy characters from whfb, and frankly the stuff like Morathi's ascension is so disjointed, arbitrary and vague that it feels utterly dissatisfying. The stuff about megagods fighting over abstract bullshit just ends up feeling handwavey.

GW needs to start putting some effort into making the newer factions interesting to actually engage as themselves rather than as pieces for old characters to move around. Like, I have zero fucking investment in anything related to the actual Stormcast or Sylvaneth or Mortarchs, they've got nothing grounding them, nothing making them or their struggles personally interesting. And while the old characters are cool because they're tried and tested, their interactions now that they're gods are legitimately less interesting. They're fighting over abstract nonsense that doesn't really feel connected to anything tangible, and doesn't obey any observable rules, meaning it can be asspulled this way and that without there having to be any creative or clever storytelling. It all kinda reminds me of how every Harry Potter book just had some vague magical effect solve almost every problem, usually just minutes after or sometimes even before it was introduced.

>> No.77138405

>it becomes much cooler
how exactly?

>> No.77138438

>the army specific stories and “current event story lines” rival anything in wfb
please, all these stories are is "member this character from WHFB? Well now he is back, with gigantic horns". The stasis in 40k and Fantasy was preferable to this

>> No.77138452

Because the elf reskin is cooler. Making your elves literal trees is the most smoothbrained uncreative attempt at subversion possible. Lorwyn elves are genuinely more interesting as a culture and faction too, Sylvaneth are pretty much standard wood elves obsessed with protecting da forest once you get past their appearance.

>> No.77138469
File: 186 KB, 1080x1080, acdc42e0021d88cb626f8e9cd9d773e0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Reused characters are for the faggot alliences, Deathchads get new stuff

>> No.77138497
File: 1.15 MB, 1550x2000, h7_trent_full.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Driads and ents aren't elves.

>> No.77138519

The “stasis” was the result of a CEO being a retard that fans accepted it.

>> No.77138623

>defending Sylvaneth with an image that's not even from AoS
The majority of actual Sylvaneth designs for AoS are literally just elves with tree bits growing all over them. You can argue that dryads are cool, but once again, that's a thing from Warhammer.

>> No.77138695
File: 696 KB, 1000x1023, sylvaneth18.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I just decided to use a generic picture for a generic "elf vs tree" discussion

>> No.77138988

A mortal soul.
The immortal realm is the realm of Chaos.

>> No.77139073

Nobody cares about this faggot anon. He's genuinely just a failed attempt to make Settra 2.0.

>> No.77139102
File: 156 KB, 422x379, 1610380245702.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

What a faggot oppinion

>> No.77139118

what happened to that game, anyway?

>> No.77139128

>supposed to be Settra 2.0
>is one of of Nagash's bitch slaves

they obviously weren't trying very hard

>> No.77139137

better being a passive retard than actively malicious and destructive

>> No.77139209

Yes, it generally does show a remarkable lack of effort and understanding.

>> No.77139361

And it's astonishing that people can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that its this very universalism that's the problem.
Anything created with everyone in mind ultimately caters to no one. AoS is too big; too all over the place; it has no meaningful identity of its own.

>> No.77139506

>even if the thing they’re hating on has removed all of the problems they didn’t like it for in the beginning.
Design is still terrible and fluff is still looks like cadavre of WoW and Marvel Asgard

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