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77030232 No.77030232 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Where does the hate for ASOIAF comes from? The hate for the series, I understand (though only for the 4 last seasons, if someone here hates the first 4 seasons I'd genuinely like to know why), but for the books? The plot? The characters? The setting in general?
Is there a reason for the overall hate or contempt for ASOIAF?

>> No.77030255

It's shit.

>> No.77030281

Lazy fat fuck

>> No.77030289

It's popular

>> No.77030352

>Implying anyone gives a fuck
>Implying it's not dead news
>Implying you can whip a shitstorm out of it
If it was 2019 or earlier, sure. Fuck man, GoT disappeared within DAYS after it ended from collective consciousness and you try to stirr up a shitfest on /tg/ a year later about some franchise 99% of poeple forgot exists?

>> No.77030381


>> No.77030433

Many people are still waiting for the next book.

>> No.77030434 [DELETED] 
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>a Dance with Dragons came out a decade ago

>> No.77030438

It's just a gaggle of people who were upset by the popularity of the show.

>> No.77030449

>terrible prose
>tries to be realistic and fails
>obsessed with petty, boring details
>hollow compared to LoTR
>unnecessarily graphic (amateurish way to evoke response from the reader)

It contains the worst aspects of both "historical" and fantasy literature, all written terribly, with a hateable author being the cherry on top.

>> No.77030478

He gave people a decade long hiatus to think back and analyze what he wrote. This is probably the worst thing an author can do.

>> No.77030494

I've hated these fucking books since day one.

>> No.77030500

It's pretty badly written, but overhyped by people who can read but have no ability to engage in critical thinking and mistake "Bad things happen and people are dicks and dicks usually win" for "realism".

>> No.77030511

I haven't read his books yet, but another that people about the series is the new "standard" it's set for fantasy now: bleak, hellish, muddy, and colorless.

That might just be the television show though.

>> No.77030519


It's only mediocre but insufferable faggots unironically pushed it as the "greatest fantasy series ever".

It's fine and serviceable in the little niche it made for itself but not really beyond that.

GRRM also is massively autistic which can be annoying at times I guess.

Then there's the TV show which, /tv/, nuff said

>> No.77030550

>terrible prose
Really? IMO his dialogue at least is some of the best fantasy dialogue
>tries to be realistic and fails
True in many cases
>obsessed with petty, boring details
Eh, a matter of taste (pun intended)
>hollow compared to LoTR
As it exists, it does nor form a dramatically satisfying whole, but it's incomplete so that's not quite a fair thing to ask. Also to be outdone by LotR of all things is no mark of shame
>unnecessarily graphic (amateurish way to evoke response from the reader)
Personally I slightly agree, but again, that's a matter of taste

>> No.77030558

no, I agree. Most fantasy is either bleak, dark, and muddy like you said, or full-on dnd-5e magitech WoW anime.

>> No.77030562

>Where does the hate for ASOIAF comes from?
Its popular and 4chan is full of contrarian dipshits. Easy as that.

>> No.77030573

It's like 40% contrarianism, 30% legitimate literary criticism, and then 30% the realization that the fat old fuck is going to die before publishing another thing and the series will be finished by Brandon Sanderson and Kevin J. Anderson, each writing one-handedly.

>> No.77030592

There are a lot of reasons to dislike ASOIAF. There are the ever-annoying Martin quotes where he accidentally takes potshots at Tolkien that get memed to death by people that like Martin way too much.
There's the faux realism that he uses to explain why everything is so dark in gritty while writing about prima nocta and how a feudal army that lacks gun powder manages to rapidly conquer a region the size of France without massive prolonged sieges.
There's the fact the books got more bloated and unwieldy after he fired his editor.
There's the fact the books will never be finished.
For Oldfags, there's the fact that he stopped writing Avalon in the Thousand Worlds setting to work on a trilogy that was supposed to be finished 2 books and 2 decades ago.
There's the fact he predictably recycles the same themes/ideas in nearly every story he's written since A Song for Lya.
Then there's the fact that Martin clearly doesn't want to finish the story. He'd much rather do world building in the setting and write Dunk and Egg stories set long before the doom and gloom of the War of the Five Kings.

>> No.77030602
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Well there's light and darkness in good stories, I doubt the scouring of the Shire in LotR would've been effective if it was some sort of colorless mud town.

>> No.77030619

Look, I'm not the greatest expert there is when it comes to fantasy books but saying that GRR has a "terrible prose" is plainly wrong. He's far from the big leagues, no doubt about that, but his writting style does the job, and he's definitely one of the best dialoguists there is in the world of fantasy.

The rest of your points is completely subjective, and for the record, there isn't a lot of fantasy books that wouldn't feel "hollow' compared to LOTR. In fact, there is only one that comes to my mind but if you aren't a frog, you won't know it since it has never been translated outside of France.

>> No.77030622

I'd say a good portion of the worldbuilding hate comes from people taking in-universe history delivered in-character at face value.
See: the ridiculously long-lived dynasties. Of course the Starks claim to have ruled the North for thousands of years, the Capets of France claimed descent from fucking Aeneas of all people
Doesn't Sam even theorise at one point that most of Westerosi history is propaganda? It has been a while since I've read the books in fairness

One big place where I think GRRM missed a trick was having the Maesters and the Faith being entirely separate and somewhat opposing, where "realistically" they'd be the same thing. The idea of faith as being completely separate from science only really caught on after the medieval period after all

>> No.77030631

>Bad things happen and people are dicks and dicks usually win
In ASOIAF, dicks win their little fights, while in a larger picture the causes that prevail are those advanced by moral and unselfish individuals - so you should be morally good for the sake of the moral good, not because the author grants you victory for it. If moral behavior is only a cheat code for personal victory, isn't that just cheap?

>> No.77030655

I should have clarified, I meant "Most modern fantasy is either..."

Older well-regarded works of fantasy had more than one color or tone, which is why they work so well. Compare the hobbits getting captured by the barrow-wights to when they finally arrive in Rivendell, the tone and the "feel" are completely different, but not so much so that it seems off. I don't see this a lot in modern fantasy

>> No.77030659

Go to /lit/ and look at the starting guide. That should give you a place to start reading. You'll understand in time.

>> No.77030663

The only criticism I've seen of GRRM on this board is in regards to this interview where he said some pretentious shit about Tolkien's work that completely missed the point of the mythic genre he was writing in. Control + F "a major concern". Yes indeed, it is written from an unreasonably idealistic point of view that's rather detached from the reality of how things work, and that was the point. Other than that, I wish GRRM were more efficient in developing the plot, had a plan, rather than meandering from side story to side story for thousands of pages.

>> No.77030671

Oh but I've already read those.

>> No.77030681

What causes advanced by moral and unselfish individuals have prevailed in ASOIAF? So far just about everything that's happened has went from bad to worse.

>> No.77030716

>The idea of faith as being completely separate from science only really caught on after the medieval period after all
Martin's failure to understand the place of religion in the Medieval world is probably the biggest blow to the "realism of ASOIAF" even more than his complete lack of understanding of medieval warfare. Almost every character in the setting views at least up until the introduction of the High Sparrow and Lancel's religious awakening views religion from a deeply cynical 20th-century framework and that's just not how pre-modern societies looked.

>> No.77030744

>He'd much rather do world building in the setting and write Dunk and Egg stories set long before the doom and gloom of the War of the Five Kings.
Yet Fire and Blood is probably the worst thing he ever wrote

>> No.77030752

>>terrible prose
"terrible" compared to anybody who has been recognized in the literary world, but as far as modern fantasy goes he's probably near the top of the list, not by "being the best" but rather "sucking less than everybody else" the dude's no Cormac McCarthy, Ernest Hemingway or Vladimir Nabokov, but from what little I've read he doesn't make me want to gouge my eyeballs out

>> No.77030773

I loved it.

>> No.77030841

/lit/ is a bunch of pretentious poseurs who are bitching about books they never read

>> No.77030866

You have to judge the story by what there is claiming that’s it’s “incomplete” would only be valid if anyone actually believed that the fat fucker intended to ever complete it.

>> No.77030919

Where did Tax posting go? Still the best meme that Martin spawned from his shit

>> No.77030921
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I'm certain around half the users on /tg/ are GMs who wish they could be full-time fantasy writers, but are too lazy or mediocre to actually make it happen.
I agree that ASOIAF is overrated, but their main beef is simply that it has been phenomenally popular, whereas absolutely no-one in this world (or any other) gives a shit about THEIR setting.

>> No.77030926

If you believe that GRRM has adequate prose, you need to read other books.

>> No.77030972

>and that's just not how pre-modern societies looked.
>All premodern societies followed Abrahamitic religions.

This is really silly, anon. Non-Abrahamitic societies have and had a very different relationship with religion, and we're not even talking about the debauchery of the Renaissance.

Also, the Seven Pointed Star is basically the only religion with no confirmed magical powers.

>> No.77030982

so it's like /tg/ but for books??

>> No.77030993

>>hollow compared to LoTR
That's how you spot the pretentious contrarian dipshit.

>> No.77030994

>Yes indeed, it is written from an unreasonably idealistic point of view that's rather detached from the reality of how things work, and that was the point.
I mean it's not even that. LOTR is idealistic in the sense that the narrative ultimately affirms the writer's idealism, but the plot and backstory are chock full of exactly the kind of details Martin claims to be missing, and all of them fit organically - they happen as you'd expect shit to happen in the real world with real people.

Tolkien leaves the minor details out of focus because the story he's telling is simply not as petty as Martin's.

>> No.77031000

Yes, but somehow much worse

>> No.77031016

Convince me that Martin's story is petty.

>> No.77031033

>Also, the Seven Pointed Star is basically the only religion with no confirmed magical powers
That must be terribly awkward

>> No.77031057

All the real gods are assholes though

>> No.77031065

>Is there a reason for the overall hate or contempt for ASOIAF?
I can't speak for anyone else, but the books shattered my suspension of disbelief, especially with how the internal culture developed. For just one example, I simply do not believe that any world that existed the way Martin implies that it does, with abundant treachery and loose controls over soldiers and other hired muscle would ever develop a chivalric ideal out of 13th century French literature. The entire character arc of Sansa makes no goddamn sense because I do not for one second believe that anyone plausibly existing in that universe would be telling tales of saintly knights rescuing the fair maiden to children. That in and of itself is bad but not necessarily a fatal flaw; I've enjoyed other works that are a bit too ridiculous to fully take seriously or invest myself in, such as the Belgariad/Malloreon series by David Eddings.

But when you combine it with how GRRM huffs his own farts about making a believable realistic fantasy setting, it kills the entire thing.

>> No.77031075

>"Bad things happen and people are dicks and dicks usually win"
Thinking that the books are about this is a great sign that someone hasn't read the books.

>> No.77031127

>I simply do not believe that any world that existed the way Martin implies that it does, with abundant treachery
Treachery isn't generally abundant, at least not moreso than real life. The whole point is that things go to shit in TWoFK because people abandoned the values that have kept society together so far. This is why everyone that engages in that sort of thing tends to lose out long term.
>and loose controls over soldiers and other hired muscle would ever develop a chivalric ideal out of 13th century French literature.
But the 13th century French themselves had super loose controls over soldiers and hired muscle.

>> No.77031147

The simple fact that he will never finish it. Why bother caring about a universe that just ends on a bunch of cliffhangers?

>> No.77031161

Real life was full of chivalric romance and yet it was full of backstabbing dicks. The books may be are more extreme and edgy than real life, but not to the point of being unfeasible

>> No.77031166

Perhaps petty was not the right word, but I meant it in the sense of being low concept. Tolkien's stories are about epic struggles against overwhelming evil. ASOIAF is about three families tearing each other apart in a struggle for power.

>> No.77031172

Black Company did what Gurm was trying to do but better. And Black Company isn't even remotely good.

>> No.77031263

>But the 13th century French themselves had super loose controls over soldiers and hired muscle.

The chivalric ideal originated in the very short time period around 1200 AD and was based mostly on fan fiction around the Arthurian legends. "Knights" had always been around in some way or the other at least since the early Roman equites, simply because that's a relatively reliable way to maintaining a permanent cavalry force without paying for a standing army. All that bullshit about HONORABU WARRIORS has always been little more than self-aggrandizement. But the muh history faggots don't know shit about history, so they take the memes they absorbed through cultural osmosis as true fact.

>> No.77031363

>Treachery isn't generally abundant, at least not moreso than real life.
It certainly seems to be, given how every time we're told by someone in the know that the histories Maesters compile are basically propaganda pieces to legitimize current rulers and how there are a lot more bodies buried under the foundations than is generally accepted.

>The whole point is that things go to shit in TWoFK because people abandoned the values that have kept society together so far.
But they were never widely accepted, and before the lens of the books we have Roberts Rebellion, and the constant revolts in Dorne, the Blackfyre rebellions, and probably a bunch more I've forgotten since it's been ages since I've read the books. Everyone's always fucking constantly with anyone who has a pulse, there are always intrigues centered around doubting parentage and bastardy, and the winners are always the quickk and brutal people who stab their enemies in the back before someone does it to him.

>But the 13th century French themselves had super loose controls over soldiers and hired muscle.
Far tighter than they ever exist in ASOIF. You don't, for instance, have anything even approaching the Red Wedding. You don't have anything even coming close to the masses of lawless mercenaries that seem a common fixture in Westeros (and why French kings looking for sellswords usually had to go outside the country to find them). When you do have massive uprisings, they're directed against counselors of the king rather than the king himself, because the idea of violently overthrowing the monarch and either sitting your ass down on the throne or the sort of blatant separatism that characterizes Robb Stark's war was simply unthinkable.

>> No.77031385

>Real life was full of chivalric romance and yet it was full of backstabbing dicks
They happened, sure, but real life also had considerable numbers of people who played by the socially acceptable rules and prospered for doing so. ASOIF, not so much, the suckers who play nice always seem to die, lose their wars, and have their entire families raped and then killed in no particular order.

>> No.77031397

You don't know the slightest bit of shit about history, don't you?

>> No.77031428

That was the standard for fantasy novels when he started writing them. Every fucking fantasy series in the 90s was full of filth, rape, misery and squalor. The Black Company, Chronicles of an Age of Darkness, His Dark Materials, Witcher...

>> No.77031459

I think the biggest thing is that it misses one of the biggest things about IRL religion, IE that the main reason there's debate is nobody actually has straight up god given magic powers IRL.

Nobody is going to follow the gods that are demonstrably and as a matter of public record *aren't fucking real*, or at the least, not enough people to be the majority religion of an entire fucking continent and change are.

The New Gods realistically would have never taken off. Everyone would be worshiping something else.

>> No.77031460

>full of filth, rape, misery and squalor
>His Dark Materials
nigga what???

>> No.77031483

>and the winners are always the quickk and brutal people who stab their enemies in the back before someone does it to him.
Bruh, this is not true. For fucks' sake even within the context of just the books' story this isn't true, the quick and brutal backstabbers get short term wins but their power collapses later.

>> No.77031496

I am quite certain that I know far more than you do, anon. Again, I'm not saying that it was some hippy-dippy hunky dory paradise where everyone played nice. But what I am saying is that unlike Martin's world, there was a significant, even large subset of people who did play by the societal rules and did well for themselves for doing so.

And what's more, those rules varied from place to place. The Chivalric ideal appeared in France and not Mongolia at the same time, despite both having very well entrenched horse riding warrior cultures. There's a reason (well, multiple, interlinking reasons) for that, and a lot of it has to do with what were accepted ways to interact with your peer groups. Chivalry was an ideal, something that was aspired to, not necessarily lived out in day to day life, but a view that that is how a proper person is at least supposed to act. Over on the steppes, however, you have a very different set of notions as to how a proper person is supposed to act, because steppe culture is very different from manorial/vassalage culture. So the proper way the ideal person is supposed to act is different because the way the actual ordinary person acts is very different.

Martin's world is so much edgier and so much more filled with gore and rape than history as we know it was that expecting the same idealized behavior out of its noble classes is idiotic. And the notion that Martin is presenting "The real middle ages" is probably the single worst thing he's ever done.

>> No.77031566

I find his narrative structure really dumb. He wants to have his cake and eat it too with "Realistic" societies but full of bullshit magic crap. He wants to write a story about the squabbling of nobles but wants a dark lord to rule them all at the same time. He criticizes Tolkien for shit he is guilty of anyway.

The ending he logically wrote out is how everybody dies to a horde of zombies and all the politicking is largely utterly irrelevant one way or the other. But as the old fuck sits on stacks of money he realized that it's a really unsatisfying ending. So he wants to wait it out.

>> No.77031618

>All premodern societies followed Abrahamitic religions.
I never said they were, but it is worth pointing out that the Faith of the Seven is literally Martin's expy for the Catholic Church.
>This is really silly, anon. Non-Abrahamitic societies have and had a very different relationship with religion,
Yes, a lot of pre-modern societies interacted with religion differently than Medieval Europe interacted with the Catholic Church, but if you think that means they acted like 20th-century agnostics then you are are sorely mistaken. Religion and how one interacted with it permeated every society from the Toltecs in Mexico to Yamato period Japan.
> and we're not even talking about the debauchery of the Renaissance.
what about it? Do you think that individuals can't be debauched while religion is deeply interwoven into society as a whole? Richard the Lionheart was a bisexual rapist who probably murdered his father but everything we know about him tells us that his religion was an incredibly important part of his life. People being debauched isn't why Martin fails, he fails because up until Feast religion basically doesn't exist in Westeros south of the Wall as a tangible force outside of the Red Woman and Selyse and here it largely serves as "look at how terrible these religious zealots are", when really they should be the norm.

>> No.77031721

Their power collapses when someone cleverer comes along and sets them up to be backstabbed. But offhand, (and I'll admit it's been years) I can't remember a "Nice guy" ever winning, not once, unless he's being set up by someone manipulating him behind the throne. The nasty guys lose eventually, but the nice guys always lose and do so immediately.

>> No.77031793

Jaehaerys? Aegon V? Dunk?
No nice guys win in the main story because it still isnt finished.

>> No.77031817


>> No.77031832

non religious writers cant write good fantasy

>> No.77031857

Pointless adventure faggotry with no real purpose, just mindless escapism for the sake of it. You can come out of Lord of the Rings with an old but refreshing perspective on human nature, with Game of the Thrones all you can think about is what goes on in the lives of the stupid characters.

>> No.77031872

There plenty of modern fantasy writers who blow GRRM out of the water.

He's an above average author who got extremely lucky.

>> No.77031916

That should make Martin MORE appealing to tabletop players, then.

>> No.77031931

>His Dark Materials
Fedora-tipper Narnia was just insufferable. I got through the first book when it came out and just could not muster the enthusiasm to care about where the story was going to go next.

>> No.77031941

>Their power collapses when someone cleverer comes along and sets them up to be backstabbed.
No. Their power collapses because they've alienated everyone through their complete shittery and as soon as there's a change in the wind they find that nobody is actually loyal to them. Do you even remember what position the Lannisters are in currently where the books left off? It's not a good one.
>I can't remember a "Nice guy" ever winning
Daenerys constantly wins and she's a literally "free the slaves, try to do good all the time" ruler. Jon consistently wins his battles and trials, and he's about to be resurrected as Fire Jesus. If you're talking individual battles and such, 'nice guys' win many. They haven't won the ultimate war yet, but that's because that's the end of the books. The big villains aren't going to lose until the end bruh.

>> No.77031984

Cope, /tg/ tranny.

>> No.77031986

I really dislike that people think it portrays a "reality" of the "Medieval" times instead of it being terrible. The show was also bad. Also the siege of Winterfell was joked about in my group for how tactically and strategically and even logistically terrible it was.

Mostly I dislike it because it colours people's perception on history but that's true of 99% of media/books.

>> No.77031992

It's never coming.

>> No.77032001

It's because trolling is hard. This was maybe my answer to OP, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. OP's post had a very trollish philosophy: that if the meme was a good meme, the thread would prosper. We look at real threads and it’s not that simple. OP can say that A Song of Ice and Fire became a meme and reigned for a million posts, and it was fun and enjoyed. But OP doesn’t ask the question: Has my meme really taken off? Is it a forced meme? Has anyone ever posted this but me? And what about all these 4channers? By the end of the meme, everyone is gone but all of Anonymous aren’t gone – they’re on the board. Did the meme ever take on a real life of its own, like longcat or Rickrolling or Candlejack? Or instead did it

>> No.77032051

I mean Tywin is a canonical fuck you to this. He gets to arbitrarily do stupid shit and break every rule of his society and culture on whims and gets away with it arbitrarily for a long ass time. It's even in his backstory. The whole Castamere clusterfuck was him lucking out and realistically if he was bound to the same kind of restrictions that say, Robb was, he should have been fucking dead afterwards for going behind the back of a Lord Paramount and breaking the King's Peace by butchering several major families he was bound to by marriages, with authority he didn't have.

His ass should have been *dead* after that. But the rules don't apply to Tywin, and this trend continues through into the events of canon. If you're a backstabbing evil dick the rules only apply to you when Martin gets bored with you, where as if you're a good guy and not a shit heel suddenly the setting bends over backwards to make your decisions the wrong ones and kill you.

>> No.77032069

While you would be right, Martin's worldbuilding is also garbage so it lacks that obsessive attention to detail that tabletop fans crave, thus Tolkien remains the King in that front too.

>> No.77032092

You know I was going to say you're full of shit but looking back you're not entirely wrong. Dragonlance, LotR, Narnia, etc.

>> No.77032202

Damn that's a good summary. I was young when i read that slop. The fedora-nihilism was owershadowing any enjoyment by the third book.

>> No.77032259

>I mean Tywin is a canonical fuck you to this.
He's the best example of this, you mean. His ruthlessness and disregard for morality ends with him murdered on the shitter by his son. His remaining heirs immediately set about fucking up the legacy he obsessively cultivated and all his allies abandon them, meanwhile the good man his scheming killed might have died a little earlier, but like half the nation is marching in his memory.
>he should have been fucking dead afterwards for going behind the back of a Lord Paramount
Tytos was his father dude. He wasn't gonna have him executed.
>breaking the King's Peace by butchering several major families he was bound to by marriages
The rebels are the ones that broke the peace.

>> No.77032305

Winters that last for 10 years. How do people survie that? How do deer and even trees survive that? Why doesn't the entire west landmass look like, at best, the mongolian steppe?

A nation is 8,000 years old. There has been no notable technological advancemnt in the time it took real life people to go from tools of wood and bone and chipped stone to shitposting on the internet.

A nation the size of south america, one language.

The two main protagonist characters are annoying and boring.

Snow gits from the north can only be killed with obsidian and not!mithril because it was born in fire. Because regular worked metal somehow isn't.

It's never going to get finished so we can finish it and immediatly forget about it and move on like with what happened to the TV series, it's just going to hang around like a kipper under the floorboards.

>> No.77032352

Oh, it's another episode of "Christians can't handle anything that doesn't suck Yahweh's dick."

>> No.77032404

It was dull. He managed to write a story about talking bears, alternate universes, people with external souls that look like animals and magical technology dull. That's a real tallent.

It got one film for a reason and not because of his belief that the Chatholic Church sabotaged it.

>> No.77032429

>where does the hate for _____ come from
If you're asking that question of 4chan, the answer is that it's popular and 4chan is absolutely crawling with nitwits that think hating popular things is a substitute for having a personality.

>> No.77032464

You realize there's an incredibly successful series of it now, right? There actually were attempts to ban the series by the way, though really, what sabotaged the film was poor casting and Hollywood's misguided desire to avoid anything hard to explain to the average moviegoer.

>> No.77032478

This is the dumbest defence for anything. It's the not unlike the parent of the autistic kid telling them that the other kids don't like them because they're jealous. It's possible to dislike a thing despite it being popular, not because of it.

>> No.77032502

Being made by the BBC who are not answerable to market forces and can just extort cash from the public.

>> No.77032506

Dragonlance is garbage though. Hell, it's not even garbage, it's actually worse than a lot of other D&D tie-in stuff, which is a real low bar. If you want a somewhat well known Christian fantasy author, even Brain Jacques would be better to bring up than that slop, despite how repetitive and dull his work got.

Narnia is kinda mediocre with a few memorable passages.

>> No.77032551

I never said popular things can't be bad or unlikable. But you're out of your mind if you think "I hate it because other people like it" isn't a common system of belief around here. Half the people you ask to explain why they hate any given thing fucking vanish from the thread without defending their opinions, the other half take a cursory glance at metacritic and list off the talking points of whatever the most negative review says.

>> No.77032568

>Brian Jaques
Hell yeah, swap all the races to fantasy archetypes and you've got the single best paladin story of an age. Mathias is a chad, for all that his kid is kind of a shit.

>> No.77032578

>Dragonlance is Garbage
Shut your whore mouth.

>> No.77032589

I really enjoyed the books up until I think the last one where it's just Daenerys wandering around on the other side of the world doing anything but invading Westeros. GRRM's worldbuilding is whatever and his writing style can be annoying (cue "sunset found her squatting in the grass" or his pages-long descriptions of food) but the dialogue is great. The characters have distinct voices and are incredibly quotable. For a sprawling fantasy series it's really at its best when it's just two characters in a room jousting. Not my favorite series ever but they're good and I'll read the next ones if they ever fucking come out.

>> No.77032597

This thread has only served to prove that /tg/ has shit taste

>> No.77032608

You realize that the BBC also gets money via stuff like selling shows to other venues or DVD/bray producers, right? It doesn't keep long running series if they're not polling well and won't serve it long term, hence why it generally trends toward short dramas that are safe.

>> No.77032612

It is 100% because of its recent popularity. I only started reading the books because /tg/ wouldn't stop hyping it up, up until 2011. Every fantasy literature recommendation thread was filled with posters recommending ASOI&F, and it was universally regarded as the best contemporary fantasy literature at the time.

>> No.77032636

The only reason you think it's good is because the characters sometimes reference D&D spells.

>> No.77032645
File: 651 KB, 2500x1673, J.R.R. Tolkien.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

What's some people's deal with LotR, Narnia I can understand somewhat, but it seems there's plenty of people around with something against Tolkien.

>> No.77032646

Hows that working out for Dr Who? How do you think it will work out for the new Discworld series?

>> No.77032649

The book series is fine but Martin is a fat, lazy fuck who'll never finish them. The series is crap. The books have an underpinning of houses and alliances and manners that the show just throws out the window because it can only afford to have like 1/5th the characters and half as complex a plot.

>> No.77032673

He's a toxic white man from south africa and his books weren't stunning and brave or diverse enough.

>> No.77032675

I actually like it because it's neat to see an entire pantheon progressively have to come to terms with the fact that that blaming mortals and abandoning them when one of them pisses them off is a cunt more and they have to apologize for that, which is what happens in Dragonlance, to the point that one of the gods consigns himself to a fate worse than death[what else do you describe becoming an elf as] to make up for the stupid ass shit they pulled.

>> No.77032696
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>> No.77032707


>> No.77032709

If you are going to imply that Robert E. Howard, Ursula Le Guin, and Terry Pratchett are bad, you have to leave.

>> No.77032716
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Dunsany > Lovecraft

>> No.77032730

Pratchett is bad

>> No.77032733

I could hardly put the books down. I read a chapter or 3 a day. Sad to see the series is STILL unfinished. Feeling like it'll never be completed. I refuse to watch the show. Steven Eriksons books I can't even force myself to finish.

>> No.77032738

>Hows that working out for Dr Who?
Bruh, Doctor Who has made fucktons of money for the BBC.
>How do you think it will work out for the new Discworld series?
Cancelled after one season.

>> No.77032752

I think the differance is that they set out to tell a story rather than setting out to write an story with an agenda.

>> No.77032753
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this. based GRRM pwns the seething fa/tg/uys.

>> No.77032754

No one except a very small minority or people trying to appeal to all audiences for adaptations think that way.

I am an unironic communist and Tolkien is great. He was also insanely anti-racist and anti-Nazi. He wrote a response to a Nazi cuck about how Hitler bastardised Aryanism.

>> No.77032755

right wing tards probably buttmad that Martin protested the Vietnam War and thinks women are people too

>> No.77032758
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>> No.77032767
File: 1.41 MB, 1449x2197, Robert_William_Chambers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>The H.P. Virgin
>The Robert W. Chad

>> No.77032770

That's not really a story though, that's a concept. Not a bad one at all, but I can't imagine thinking a whole series of books are good because of one idea they have. The books themselves are terrible. They barely pass the bar for acceptable literature. There is better written fanfiction.

>> No.77032778

Dont forget Gene Wolf amd the Book of the New Sun

>> No.77032785

In the past it has when viewed over 50+ years. The recent "festive" special had less views, in the days of enforced hermit, than the first Christmas special when not everyone had a TV.

>> No.77032792

I seriously haven't heard of them, would you recommend their work?

>> No.77032806

Well, they all have themes and messages in their work. Everyone does. Even JRR "don't call it allegory!" Tolkien did.

>> No.77032835

The King in Yellow is actually a character H.P. Liftcraft borrowed from the work of Robert W Chambers. His short anthology by the same name is definitely worth a look.

>> No.77032856

>In the past it has when viewed over 50+ years.
Well, no. The vast majority of the money made by Who is from 2005 onward.
>The recent "festive" special had less views, in the days of enforced hermit, than the first Christmas special when not everyone had a TV.
What this tells me is that the show's time is over and it will be dropped soon enough. It's had a long run, just over fifteen years.

>> No.77032897

Martin's best work was the Meathouse Man and he will never do anything better than write about how he couldn't get the strong independent woman, how he was cucked by his best friend, and how he copes by writing popular but ultimetly unfufilling masterbatory violence and sex.

>> No.77032901

I'll start by saying that I didn't read asoiaf in english, said that the prose is fucking shit, it's verbose and repetitive

>> No.77032920

The death of Sturm was fucking gorgeous and I dare you to say otherwise.

>> No.77032926


>> No.77032935

Hey, duck you.

>> No.77032937

ASOIAF is great.

But people don't actually read books, play vidya, play /tg/s anymore. They just let youtube celebrities or blogs tell them what they do or don't like.

>> No.77032969

I think he didn't mind it being read as an allegory, the problem was everyone tried to make it an allegory for WWII. After a while he just wanted people to get new material.

>> No.77032974

fat fucking hack

>> No.77033026

Who on youtube hates ASOIAF? AltShift, Preston, that one black guy whose name eacapes me at the moment all love ASOIAF

>> No.77033036
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Because the show slowly turned into garbage when they ran out of book material.

The books themselves are pretty high tier and I am rooting for Euron Greyjoy to end the world because all the heroes have been murdered for short term personal gain.

>> No.77033091

>all the heroes have been murdered
You can't possibly believe that Jon will stay dead. Also Stannis, Bran, Arya, and Aegon Targaryen are still alive.

>> No.77033125

I want Stannis to die in literally any way other than the way he did in the show.

>> No.77033183
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>> No.77033421

I watch the first season before most people even knew about it since the books where quite decent but it just didn't click for me. it was just kinda boring to me honestly

>> No.77033443

I liked it until I started thinking about it, and until George became completely insufferable. I think success really got to his head. I also started listening to some of his interviews, and realized he might not be as smart as I thought he was.

>> No.77033499
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IIRC from the books

Bran is stuck up North with the three eyed raven who most likely wants to merge his consciousness and effectively murder Bran to extend his own life.

Jon is 100% dead because that would be the greatest tragedy and ASOIAF

Arya is a wildcard. She might come back and start picking people off similar to what she did in the show with less cringe

Stannis will never sit on the throne. He could not rule even if he wanted to. No one will support him and that is his tragedy.
His daughter is blighted and would never be accepted

>> No.77033533

>character assassinated of all of his redeeming traits then curbstomped by Ramsey Bolton and his Twenty Good Men
>not even actually shown dying, just cuts away

Anyone who expected anything but trash from that point on, or from whenever the Sand Snakes were introduced, were sadly mistaken, and I think we see the result of how fervently people still thought there would be payoff from how dead the community went immediately following the finale.

People are eager to forget ever investing themselves in that entire franchise, now that they stop and realize where we're at. I feel like half of pop culture is still stuck in this tone-deaf desire to be GoT Edgy with all the bastards and sisterfuckers, while also trying to turn Sansa Stark from a whining incompetent useless political vagina that somehow becomes a spymistress overnight in between being raped and being of no actual help whatsoever. Meanwhile Jon trips at the finish line of being the character the entire show set up to subvert expectations. Funny how every single piece of fiction that claims they set out to do that in the last decade in a huge flop and massive failure in the eyes of critics and the community.

Maybe someone will realize it doesn't matter if we've seen if before, we've watched Star Wars 9 fucking times and more, just make it fucking good and people will ask for more.

>> No.77033572

Jon is 100% coming back, it's even part of GRRM's contract. Stannis will die though, but it'll be a better death than the show's.

>> No.77033788

Like who? I'd read them.

>> No.77033822

J K Rowling

>> No.77033841
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I read all of it. And forgot it. Seriously, I wouldn`t remember anything if it wasn`t mentioned in places like /tg/. For example, the Red Wedding. Anyone else is like this? I`m not sure I give any fucks towards ASOIF.

At the same time, I remember stuff from Pratchett, Gaiman, Asimov, Clarke, Calvino and a few others. Which to be fair, I reread several times, but because I gave some fucks to them.

>> No.77033891

Maybe a few more than JK?

>> No.77034015

Pratchett is a decent essayist and a mediocre novelist. There's a reason no one cares about his non-Discworld books.

>> No.77034024

lol any day now
trust q trust sessions trust the plan

>> No.77034052

>Robert E. Howard
pretty good

>Ursula Le Guin
mediocre, got way too far up her own ass as time went on

>Terry Pratchett
way too overhyped, mediocre at best

>> No.77034080
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Early on people disliked it because 4chan is full of contrarians who hate anything popular. Post season 4 of the show people hated it because the story went to shit.

Post season 8 everyone forgot about it because the ending was horseshit covered in vomit and we all know GRRM isn't actually going to finish the god damn books and is such a nigger he doesn't want anyone else to finish them after he dies.

So we're left with DnD's terrible rushed ending of a story.

Also, it (was) popular and everything thats popular is shit according to 4chan.

>> No.77034107
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just read bakker

>> No.77034121

I don't think everyone's a contrarian here, they exist and you can see them often, but not everyone here is one.

>> No.77034153

GRRM did manage to write one good religious character, Septon Meribald

>> No.77034166

It's often stupid in how grimdark it is. People die for no reason too often for the setting. In 40k, having 8 billion people die is horrific, but it's not world ending. In ASOIAF, entire medieval villages get wiped out at random or important people get killed off and it typically doesn't have a big impact on the area at large.

Like, almost everything with the Hound. He just kills random farmers because... reasons. And then when his random farmers get wiped out for no reason, he goes and kills those guys. And then you have The Mountain who kills everything he touches.

Life is cheap in ASOIAF, worthless even, and the setting is weaker for it. Once you get past the shock value of people dying at random, it's taints the setting and makes the next village getting wiped out meaningless.

>> No.77034291

"Señor Walker, Señor Walker!" Someone was shaking him awake, the sun seemed to burn through his closed eyelids like blaster bolts. He could hear speeders and the traffic of the day. Coruscant?

A young boy, barely 5, knelt over him trying to shake him awake.

"Señor Luca!"

"Alright, alright, you can see I'm coming," Luke leaned over and coughed, then kept coughing until he spat something thick and warm onto the sidewalk.

"You were dreaming again Señor Walker," said a woman in rags, shushing a baby on her hip.

*"Sky* walker, kid," he corrected her and began to feel around for his robes and lightsaber.

"Please señor, no more of your stories again. You got angry at my son." And Luke looked closer at the boy, he had a fading welt under his right eye.

"That- that wasn't me, I-" But now he could feel the comedown starting, everything was a haze. It couldn't be right, this wasn't who he was. He didn't leave Utah, too afraid to take a job or rent a place in his own name after he raped his sister. No, that - that's a trick. It's a Sith false memory force technique. He had stumbled into the road, tents - including his tent - were stacked in the shade under a bridge which, in turn, was on yet another bridge. Traffic beeped at him as it swerved, he had stumbled into the road. A driver called him a 'wetback'.

"No, I'm - I'm Ta... Tattoo..... what, what am I?"

No, it was false. He was on the Jedi sanctuary planet Danspa, in deep meditation. It was all a dream. He stepped further into the path of a truck. It didn't swerve, it couldn't. A horn blared. A horn, ha. It's a speeder. They don't have horns, banthas do. Luke smiled, it doesn't even make sense. He was back in the Jedi sanctuary moon Yroka, force projecting to his nubile new apprentice, yes, that's right. He opened his eyes. The truck rushed toward him.

>subverting expectations

I don't know how to do it right, it can be done right, but the way they do it today is unfun, dumb and sad.

>> No.77034293

Bran is 100% going to be the King of whatever is left after the war. It fits perfectly in Martin's style and is very Tuf Voyaging

>> No.77034294

Pratchett is the epitome of a meme that goes out of hand. Even years before Alzheimer all of his books were already shit and he didn't create anything of value past 2000, while coasting entirely on "I'm Terry Pratchett, the famous writer" since mid-90s. In fact, his sway was so huge, that his daughter build her entire career on "I'm Rhianna Pratchett, daughter of Terry Pratchett, the famous writer", despite being absolutely horrible writer herself.
It's actually amazing it took so many years for people to realise that he was mediocre at best, terrible at his usual.
Said all that, it has jack shit to do with "religiousness" - only Americans care about that shit. He was simply a hack.

>> No.77034404

Reminder that it was written prior to Lost.
And this is important thing to consider. People pretty much forgot Lost existed at all, but it was a game-changer in how things are written, filmed and percieved by audiences. Characters simply didn't die prior to Lost, as far as general public was concerned. And if they did, they either died for something or to make a point.
And ASOIAF goes "whatever, he died", which when it was written was "OH SHIT, THIS GUY IS DEAD!", rather than eye-rolling "Seriously? This is what I'm supposed to get hooked on?". Then GoT was made and the main appeal wasn't in shock value, but due to high amount of tits, violence and what appeared to be at first an intracite intrigue... what turned out to be a dud, while both tits and violence quickly got old.

tl;dr times changed and this series is very much stuck in the 90s, despite lion share of it being written later.

>> No.77034442

Like, almost everything with the Hound. He just kills random farmers because... reasons. And then when his random farmers get wiped out for no reason, he goes and kills those guys. And then you have The Mountain who kills everything he touches.

You haven't read the books.

>> No.77034446
File: 414 KB, 1920x1080, apps.6534.67150727019945646.8ee4a2ab-1c54-46d3-b689-15c502874586.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Rhianna Pratchett
Imagine trying to be a writer, but you peaked with pic related

>> No.77034456

What writer would you recommend that is like Pratchett in niche (fantasy with Douglas Adams characteristics), but better?

>> No.77034482

Because some people get overinvested over shity TV show and now are on cope patrol, hoping that the series that was shit from the start will be magically salvaged, because a lazy bum who wrote it in the first place will ever bother to write the book version of it. Which he won't, even if he wasn't infamously lazy, because he knows there is no way to end this, especially not after the TV show ended, in a way that's going to satisfy people or kept him invested. He literally earns more money by NOT ending the series anyway

>> No.77034517

Could you repeat your question? Because you've lost me by the moment you've used the bracket

>> No.77034596


Somehow 150+ replies followed

>> No.77034731

I don't really think she ever wanted to be a writer. More like a celebrity. It just happend her agent suggested going into writing, since you know, the whole pitch was "daughter of Terry Pratchett, the famous writer". Hence her writing "career"

>> No.77034754

You're a muh history faggot too, just of a different stripe. You take a 500 year period in history and generalise that all knights (or equites, take your pick, it doesn't matter) have no honour and only did it for the money.

The logical answer is that some people were honourable, some were dishonourable, some honourable people made mistakes and dishonourable people did good things sometimes. But it's undeniable that chivalry was viewed as a virtue in the medieval period and was aspired towards. Many would of course fall short of the ideal presented in chivalric tales (it's even a central conceit of some versions of the arthurian legend). But that doesn't mean that honour didn't exist, just that people are imperfect.

>> No.77034787
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Why is this up? This thread has nothing to do with traditional games, its pure /lit/ talk

>> No.77034793
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Martin is noteworthy because he combines everything that is disgusting, amoral, ugly and stupid about modern liberal writers with everything edgy, cringe, gross and self-indulgent about rebellious un-PC writers who reduce their craft to mere pornography--the degradation of the human spirit and form for lurid entertainment.

To the people who consume this dreck it initially appeals with its "realism," but what modern people mistake for authenticity is in fact merely the violation of more platonic and beautiful imagery. They come seeking a higher truth, and have shit shoveled into their hands.

And now after THIRTY YEARS of this systematic mockery of the artform, after everyone has hand time to realize that it was never even good to begin with, this fat worthless fuck cannot even bring himself to complete his magnum opus of dogshit. The closest thing anyone is EVER going to get out of this abortionist faggotloving kike enabler is to laugh at the trainwreck that will be his legacy.

Implied vitriol aside this is the actual reason. Everyone else will give you some nonsense about Tolkien or characters being dumb or Martin's hack prose but none of that really cuts to the visceral truth of the matter, which is that Martin's legacy is literary food poisoning.

I have more respect for Samuel R. Delany than I do for Martin, at least he was honest.

>> No.77034831

Come on you seething faggots, the Red Wedding sequence was masterfully set up and executed.

>> No.77034874
File: 38 KB, 840x841, 1609824891694.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>all these 'advanced' opinions
I just like reading it. It's entertaining.

>> No.77034946

Dangerously based.

>> No.77035017

t. partisan moron who has never engaged with anything related to the subject matter, but hates the books because they had a popular show and popular things must be liberal due to most westerners being liberal.

>> No.77035037

Anime fantasy > western fantasy, and ASOIAF has only limited anime content.

>> No.77035043

It's American daytime and you are surprised why a shit-show of a thread got into motions?

>> No.77035068
File: 443 KB, 480x238, dolan you.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Here, my starved man, you seem to be in a dire need of those

>> No.77035075


>> No.77035086
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So I will try to make this thread /TG/ RELATED

How is the ASOIAF Wargame going? Which factions it has so far? I remember digging the rules when they came out, and the attempts to differentiate the factions.

Also if people have interest we can roll up a House using the House Creation system from the RPG

>> No.77035122

Nobody cares, man. The show ended, GoT is now a past long gone. This is just a bait thread which was initially ignored, so OP stirred up more bait to it and waited for Yanks to do the rest of the job. Worked flawlessly, considering we're closing to 200 replies

>> No.77035124

Keep shilling for the fat guy.
How does it feel to know he will never finish?

>> No.77035127

I hated it back then since 2002 when the board game was released and the LGS owner really tried to shill it us as this "super cool political game" and it was a shitshow. One of my friends picked up a book, let me read it and it was just fucking boring, it's the 50 shades for nerds.
Thank god I haven't paid for it but still have hard feelings towards that retard who wanted to sell that shitty stuff to me

>> No.77035244

and what does Heather Chandler have to do with traditional games other than that she likes kicking nerds in the nose?

>popular things must be liberal due to most westerners being liberal
have you read literally anything by Martin? Not even saying I agree with the guy you are responding to, but Martin is, was, and always has been a massive liberal, even if more modern liberals express revulsion towards some of his earlier work like Meathouse Man. His very first published story is an expressly nihilistic anti-war short story where the hero is killed by his own military medals being pulled through his body by a super-strong magnet. You would have to be blind to not see Martin's mid-20th century liberalism bleeding through almost every page in ASOIAF.

>> No.77035321

Prose is literally the opposite of dialogue.

>> No.77035343

Prose is literally the opposite of verse, dummy.

>> No.77035363

so it's the /OSRG/, then.

>> No.77035536
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>> No.77035568


>> No.77035603
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>> No.77035611

Stannis is the one true king. STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS!

>> No.77035626

Its popular, so we must hate it

>> No.77035628

Whether Martin is a liberal or not is irrelevant to that guy's stupidity, because he's clearly the type that thinks all popular things must be excessively woke due to conservative-contrarian brain damage, and makes insane decisions based on this.

>> No.77035670

It no longer is, get on times, gramps.

>> No.77038215
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I, for one, would like to thank Dan and Dave for reminding me that everything in life ends in pain.

>> No.77038234

>modern liberal writer
Bullshit, there's barely any gay crippled tranny niggers in his writing. Can you even tell the different generations of liberal writers apart?

>> No.77038426

There are valid, intelligent criticisms to be made of all religions, whether Abrahamic, Dharmic, or pagan.

"Your sky daddy is such a failure, even he wishes he didn't exist!" is definitely 2012-era fedoratheist stupid.

>> No.77038445

Nah, Black Company is legitimately decent. Not great, but I don't at all regret reading it.

>> No.77038469

I started reading the first book and realized after a few chapters that IDGAF about any of the characters. Didn't help that I knew most of them were going to die.

>> No.77038499

Pratchett was awful.

>> No.77038506

Lovecraft credited a lot to Dunsany.

>> No.77038574

The deaths in ASOIAF are seriously exaggerated. Theres only like one or two POV characters that actually die.

>> No.77038576

>He thinks European thread are better.


>> No.77038587

Better than anything her father did.

>> No.77038930

ASOIAF is a shallow and racy fantasy narrative that pulls in readers by hitting you with shocking and graphic scenes. True. But what exactly is wrong about enjoying something like that? Something doesn't have to bleeding edge literary brilliance to be enjoyable. Half of you are jerking off to goblin farts in other tabs so i really can't understand how you guys can be so high brow about a popular fantasy franchise

>> No.77038979

It’s similar to every other fantasy novel out there in that there is nothing original; GRRM borrowed from everyone. It was rich and interesting though, so you might say it’s the Mexican food of fantasy novels. Then it became popular. Normies began acting like they’d discovered LOTR. It’s all so tiresome.

>> No.77039124

>there is nothing original
Genuine originality is impossible, anon.

>> No.77039141

cope and seethe

>> No.77039154

Your pointless philosophical observations are tedious, anon.

>> No.77039220

This is objectively false.

>> No.77039243

Huh, my take on 90s fantasy was more farmer finds a magic sword eg. Sword of Truth and Wheel of Time. Also my vague memory of Dark Materials was gloomy, but hardly Martin or Witcher levels of explicit.

>> No.77039426

I don't want to defend grrm, but this criticism doesn't make sense. Asoiaf is about an epic struggle against overwhelming evil as well, it just has more side-plots. The two stories have the same stakes and scope - an ancient evil descending on the civilized lands of men to destroy the world as we know it.

Saying asoiaf is 'about three families tearing each other apart' is like saying lotr is about 2 gay midgets on a camping trip.

>> No.77039430

Robert Jordan might have his failings in prose, but goddamn if he doesn't craft some absolutely beautiful sequences when he tries. *The Shadow Rising* in particular is gorgeous for its sequences with the Aiel genetic memory and also the defense of the Two Rivers.

Then there's Gene Wolfe, a man who could have blown the literary fiction world out of the water. Luckily for us, he chose to be a huge nerd instead.

>> No.77039507

pretentious asshole

>> No.77039616

Normals became aware of it.

>> No.77039618

I just thought Discworld was funny and comfy, you act like people talk about Terry Pratchett the same way peopl,e talk about Dostojevskij or some other hardcore inaccessible literature crowd

>> No.77039626

I acknowledge the importance of Tolkiens works, but his writing is incredibly boring to me. And I've read other authors from the same period or earlier and don't have a problem with archaic language normally.

I find the way his work is put on a pedestal kind of annoying. Like every piece of fantasy must forever be compared to this very specific story with very specific themes.

>> No.77039645

>Dragonlance, LotR, Narnia
Holy shit, this has gotta be the most brutal indirect slap in Tolkiens face I have ever seen.

>> No.77039659

Alright I guess, I'm gonna be reading LotR soon so I'm still hoping I'll enjoy as much as I did The Hobbit.


>> No.77039702

Maybe, but originality is extremely overrated.

Just be a skilled storyteller, I don't care if you're trying to outlandish or unconventional.

>> No.77039716
File: 80 KB, 750x747, 1592284649434.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Robert Jordan

>> No.77039929

I want to rub sand in Martin's piggy little eyes

No srsly

Let's call a vagina a woman's "Secret sweetness" like 6 times between book 2 and 3

fucking nosex bloated manatee

>> No.77040904

I guarantee that these posters are pretentious assholes who will rattle off a list of Joyce or Bulgakov type 'essential' authors when asked who is good, but haven't actually finished any of their books.

>> No.77041051

That's because we're in the stage where the wages of sin are starting to get paid. We're seeing the villains' schemes start to backfire on them, (obviously SPOILERS ahead) Tywin is dead and Cersei is destroying the Lannisters' power, the Freys are being murdered, the Bolton's men are turning on them, and the Greyjoys are about to break apart. Meanwhile, Stannis is building a large army of Northerners loyal to the Starks because Ned made sure to earn and keep their loyalty and the Manderlys are orchestrating a conspiracy to destroy the Boltons and Freys and install Rickon.

>> No.77041392

Narnia is a series of mediocre childrens books. The dragonlance novels are ya novels on par with goblin slayer.

>> No.77041506

You could have made this thread about the TTRPG, but you didn’t.
Did you get banned from posting on /lit/ or, God forbid, /tv/?

>> No.77041563

It's extremely popular and influential so it got a lot of contrarian hate (some valid, some not) which was most intense in places which are filled with contrarians (like here). And I say that as someone who though everything after the first book was shit.

>> No.77041586

based book reader

>> No.77041994

>You don't, for instance, have anything even approaching the Red Wedding.
A quick Google shows that Martin was inspired by two events, one of which included two boys being slaughtered after a feast.

>> No.77042063

i liked Joe Abecrombie's First Law trilogy
checking em dubs

>> No.77042103

> its soooo good
> but never released outside of France
News flash you frog fuck, it isn't good then.
Tolkien was so good even Nazis wanted to translate and sell his shit (he told them to fuck off when they asked if he was Jewish and basically called them out for being retards).
If no one has bothered to translate the book by now its shit (much like the French themselves funny that)

>> No.77042159
File: 488 KB, 599x625, 1610576264576.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Martin trashing Tolkien for shitty worldbuilding ruffled a lot of feathers and rightfully so. See >>77032758

>> No.77042208

>If you point out Pratchett is mediocre, you're pretentious
Imagine eating shit your entire life and when someone points out you're eating feces, you throw a tantrum.
Cope harder.

>> No.77042211

Both are incredibly niche and you absolutely need to be native speaker to understand shit.
I don't get it when westerners praise Bulgakov, honestly, and I don't get when my eastern euro hipsters wank at Joyce.

>> No.77042223

... because they do. That's my point. There are people who unironically consider Pratchett to be anything else than run-the-mill fantasy writer and will try to convince you with passion that he's some sort of high-brow, elite-tier stuff, and not, you know, pretty average fantasy and fantasy spoofs that got worse and worse over the years

>> No.77042237

>Asks question that's incompehensible
>Asked politely to repeat it again
M'kay, man, guess you don't want to get an answer to whatever you were asking.

>> No.77042245

>I've not read any Bulgakov, what about him do you think needs a native speaker to understand?

>> No.77042249

Martin was by no means trying to imply that Tolkien was a shitty worldbuilder. He was just noting that that kind of storytelling tends to present a vision of reality that isn't really grounded in relatable human interactions. Which is fine, really, not every story needs to be fully grounded that way. It's similarly fine to dislike the absence of it.

>> No.77042251

The Nazis were far more intelligent than Tolkien was despite his talent for fantasy fiction. It is one thing to be good at writing childrens books and quite another to actually fight for your race and civilization against judaic communism and the other forces of darkness.

>> No.77042252

I've never heard of Bulgakov, and I've never read anything by James Joyce, and I wouldn't considered either of them "essential authors" because having a list of "essential authors" is stupid in the first place.

>> No.77042254

im not shilling for the fat retard im disagreeing with your degeneracy
>Anime fantasy > western fantasy

>> No.77042288

Because he is fantasy writer who was hyped to the top. His books aren't bad, they have target audience and it's teenagers. It's absolutely ok to read it at 15-18 and love it, problems start when it is treated as masterpiece of literature which it isn't. Same with Witcher desu

>> No.77042301

Not that anon (but one of the people he replied to), and the issue is very simple with Joyce:
He's inaccessible, native or not. Which makes him a perfect thing to wank about and the perfect thing for idiots like the original anon to get mad at for being "elitist". A win-win for everyone who wants to get their panties in a twist about a book.
As for Bulgakov, I wouldn't call him niche at all. I mean we had to read him in mid-school and he was one of the most accessible and fun things we had to read. And I'm not even Russian, so it's not a cultural immersion kind of thing that made it easier to read him.

>> No.77042303

Pratchett is a good writer. One can read both highly praised literary classics and enjoyable well-written fantasy comedy, you don't have to choose one or the other. Unless you're just a really slow reader, I guess.

But yeah you are very, very pretentious.

As someone who has read both in their native languages, I'm not sure why you'd think this. They're also not really all that niche, they basically turn up on every "best authors you gotta read" list ever. For good reason, of course, they are great.

>> No.77042324

Not him and I've read majority of his books and novellas and I'm not a Russian. In fact, lion share of his writing was just obligatory read in mid-school, so age 13-16. Perfectly servicable and accessible.
So sounds to me like YOU never read any of his stuff and meme some shit about it.

>> No.77042370

>One can read both highly praised literary classics and enjoyable well-written fantasy comedy, you don't have to choose one or the othe
The funny thing is that you are the only person that insist on this, not me. It was you who started idiotic rant about "haha, you probably read Joyce and Bulgakov", now claim that it was anyone, but you who insisted it's A or B choice, rather than "read whatever".
And even with all this into consideration, Pratchett isn't good. It's really that simple. Or rather, like the original anon stated, he stopped being good by early to mid 90s and from there on just kept shitting out progressively worse books.
But hey, someone said writer X is shit, better throw a tantrum about it and pretend everyone who points out flaws is just pretentious. Because apparently you're too invested into this to realise how meaningless the quality of a writer or his writing is, instead wanking furiously like a total idiot how great he is.
He isn't. And every normal person just moves on about it, while you get pissy.

>> No.77042389

>One big place where I think GRRM missed a trick was having the Maesters and the Faith being entirely separate and somewhat opposing
Nah, I like that. It makes the setting stand a bit more on its own two feet, rather than be a simple historical pastiche. The other innacuracies also add to that.

>> No.77042390

Original idiot here, Joyce isn't inaccessible, and I'm not going to get mad about him, he's one of my favourite authors. The Dead contains possibly one of the greatest passages in literature. But the kind of person who goes on tangents about Pratchett being secretly shit is usually the type who, when pressed on their tastes, will list a bunch of guys like Joyce (i.e authors who commonly appear on a school curriculum or must-read lists) without ever having touched their work.

>> No.77042401
File: 1.35 MB, 400x206, Look at him.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Imagine being forever mentally 14 and spending rest on your life defending your most favourite autor ever with passion worth a better cause, while calling everyone around you pretentious, slow and lacking taste.

>> No.77042424

I like the fact that there are things that aren't known. Creates a natural mystery.
Writers who explain and write every last little detail tend to be less fun to read.

>> No.77042428

>I'm not shilling for the fat retard I'm just shilling for the fat retard

>> No.77042431

let's take his most famous shit, Master and Margarita
almost immediately you run into thousand of details from first meeting with Voland on Patriarshye. Do you know what Patryarshye is? Do you get the reference of Bezdomnyi surname? Do you know what narzan is, which he and Berlioz drink without googling it? Do you know why Moscow Association of Literators is shortened as MASSOLIT and not MAL? Do you know why holiday house on Klyazma was a sign of higher status? Do you know why in supposedly communistic society writers and poets for some reason revel in hedonistic consumption of expensive dishes, accompanied by jazz?
This is why I don't want to read Joyce. I like to understand what I read.

>> No.77042435

>"haha, you probably read Joyce and Bulgakov"
Actually, my claim was that you're probably pretending you read them. Maybe you should look over the past few posts?
>Or rather, like the original anon stated, he stopped being good by early to mid 90s and from there on just kept shitting out progressively worse books.
I sort of agree, there are later books of his that I consider worse than those of his best years. Doesn't mean he hasn't written good stuff.
>pretend everyone who points out flaws
"He's bad" isn't pointing out flaws. Just saying.
>And every normal person just moves on about it, while you get pissy.
This logic applies just as much to you as to anyone else here. You've gone out of your way to get mad about people liking an author. Rather than just moving on with your life, you had to go on a screed about it.

>> No.77042444

>Here, I am projecting from my ass
Ever considered that people can simply consider something bad and move on with their lives, rather than being some sort of elite club of smug asshats scheming to piss into your cereals?
I've read.... 6 books by Pratchett. They weren't as funny as my friend insisted they are, but I've read them. Then I moved on with my life. I consider them run-the-mill fantasy, absolutely nothing special about them, neither good or bad, just existing. Guess that means I'm part of the cereal-pissing cabal, then.

>> No.77042452
File: 50 KB, 564x834, 8893a042d8bcde16ecaabf787952ac2f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I tried reading it and what a boring and depressive read. Everything and everyone is grump or pissed and that is not engaging or interesting to me.

>> No.77042480
File: 273 KB, 485x597, Ice Creams.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>If you aren't liking A Thing, then you must pretend to like B Thing, and this makes you a pseud, because I'm mental!
Pic very fucking related.

>> No.77042508

>Imagine being forever mentally 14
That shouldn't be hard for you.
>defending your most favourite autor ever
My favourite author ever is probably Bashevis Singer. Why can you do nothing but strawman?
>while calling everyone around you pretentious, slow and lacking taste.
If the shoe fits. Seriously though, it's hardly everyone, your kind are hyper contrarians.

>If you aren't liking A Thing
Another strawman, and a misrepresentation of the original point either way. Saying you don't like something is very different from going on a rant about how bad it is and how everyone who likes it is deluding themselves somehow.

>> No.77042548

What Martin actually did was creating fake outrage, to boost own sales. It's an advertising equivalent of a clickbait:
>GRRRRRRR said Tolkien bad!
>"Tolkien's worldbuilding is shallow" said autor of GoT novels
>"7 reasons why GoT is better than LotR"
And so on and forth. The irony is that the fat fuck is just as bad, if not worse, at creating a belivable setting, but he doesn't care. He was just generating a clickbait material.
Rowling did the exact same thing few years ago. Remember how internet was getting into a shit-throwing competition over her tweets or whatever? And what was actually happening was artifically prolonging interest in Harry Potter and generating extra income out of it.

For fuck's sake, there is a generation born and rised after internet, and yet you idiots still act like it started yesterday. Eternal September truly is eternal.

>> No.77042557

Dude, if you make sweeping statements about how a thing is shit shit shit and has no value, you don't get to hide behind "just muh opinion" when people press you on it.

>> No.77042559
File: 91 KB, 556x469, smugcat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>No, you're the strawman, not me!
>t. strawman supreme
Care to explain to us why you're so fucking invested into this? As in - really, what's in it for you?

>> No.77042573

>man continues to argue while insisting that the people he's arguing against are overinvested in the argument

>> No.77042574

He's a faggot who likes to be contrarian.

>> No.77042588
File: 1.92 MB, 200x200, 1453741563378.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Then jokes on you, because I've joined your discussion here: >>77042401
Couldn't care less about what arguments you idiots are making, but I do care about pointing out how ridiculous it is to get aggitated over writers and their output.

>> No.77042600

>No, you're the strawman, not me!
That's not how strawmen work. I think you want to say "No, you're setting up the strawman, not me!"

>> No.77042604
File: 3.59 MB, 298x224, 1461630340192.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Said the guy who throws a tantrum when a random person says that he's a tantrum-throwing autist
Nuff stuff, mate. Especially considering you're arguing with yourself here.

>> No.77042620
File: 73 KB, 358x392, 1279696118.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Asked a simple question to answer

>> No.77042623

No, it has never been translated because
1) It's pretty recent (been written only a few years ago)
2) It's extremelly long (about 900 pages) so it would cost a lot of money to translate. Which means publishing houses have other priorities.
3) It's extremely hard to translate since the author plays a lot with the subtlety of the french language, with a lot of medieval local terms.

Now go back to /pol/, my sweet little retard.

>> No.77042634

>but I do care about pointing out how ridiculous it is to get aggitated over writers and their output.
Then maybe you should have read a little further back, because you'd probably find that you're not even fighting for the cause you think you are. This started with a guy being unreasonably angry about Pratchett and people liking him.

>> No.77042639

/tg/ hates everything that is popular. And GoT became normie-core years ago. This is the only correct answer.

Don't (You) me.

>> No.77042666

I'm not the guy you're arguing with. I'm just pointing out that you're using the term wrong. Chill.

>> No.77042673
File: 433 KB, 848x676, smugness.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

He wasn't angry, he just said Pratchett is mediocre. And assuming it's the same guy, he later said he just didn't find him as funny as he was told it is.
To all of which you came in and started throwing a ridiculous tantrum about people having their preferences all wrong and liking the wrong things, because it doesn't align with your own.
Hence - you're an autistic spastic and it's a thing to laugh at and ridicule. And you can't counter that without throwing even a bigger tantrum, so keep digging

>> No.77042691

I utterly fucking hated the section where Jon Snow invents cunnilingus
I see this discussed almost never

>> No.77042693

Which is literally what this thread is about, Captain

>> No.77042701

>scattershotting incoherent le smug reaction image posts at everyone in the vicinity
This has become pretty embarrassing.

>> No.77042714

/tg/ enjoys D&D and its offsprings and keep begging for more, though.

>> No.77042716
File: 85 KB, 511x676, ;3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Fuck man, how do I counter being called a sperg...
>Wait! I can sperg out some more!
You realise this is an anonymous board... right?

>> No.77042722

>he just said Pratchett is mediocre
What's the point in just lying here?

>> No.77042745

Because he is boasting about how mature his books yet in fact he only killed 2 Starks, while keeping his favorite characters alive no matter the odds

>> No.77042757

Moi je veux bien le titre pour le coup.

>> No.77042767
File: 59 KB, 392x293, smug tonnura.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

... exactly, anon. What's the point of lying?
You said yourself something about reading up the discussion. Then why are you willingly ignoring what was said - in written form, that can be accessed at any fucking moment - to pretend things happend differently?
Could it be that you'd have to admit that you've sperged out over nothing in particular? Or that you can't understand written English and get angry over things that aren't there? My, my, admitting being wrong, that's a tough one, isn't it?

>> No.77042770

>he only killed 2 Starks
Ned, Robb and Catelyn make three. Don't tell me you consider the undead to be living beings.

>> No.77042773

>He wasn't angry, he just said Pratchett is mediocre
Saying a writer is terrible at their usual and ranting about them indeed an angry rant, not just noting tat they're mediocre.
>To all of which you came in and started throwing a ridiculous tantrum about people having their preferences all wrong and liking the wrong things, because it doesn't align with your own.
At no point have I said anyone's preferences are wrong. In fact, I haven't made any statements about which things people should like, or the quality of anything. Stop making shit up.

So far your only points have been complete fabrications. You're clearly triggered as fuck by the assessment of your character so far and are doing everything in your power to performatively cope.

>> No.77042789

Alive, sort of

>> No.77042802

Lotr is also shit.

>> No.77042806
File: 177 KB, 710x888, acceptable.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Oh, so you possess no reading comprehension whatsoever.
That would explain why you've sperged out in general and why you consider Joyce or Bulgakov to be some sort of elitist crap.
Carry on, then!

>> No.77042835

Whatever, autist(s). Literally nobody cares and the only recognition the name still carries is via his daughter being behind some of the worst video games of the decade. Pratchett, Terry? Already forgotten beyond bunch of people who still cope

>> No.77042841

>Oh, so you possess no reading comprehension whatsoever.
If you're going to pretend I said Joyce or Bulgakov are inherently elitist, it is you that must work on your reading comprehension. Or, more likely, your ability to speak without lying.

>> No.77042861

Funny thing, I'd actually never heard of his daughter before this thread.

>> No.77042872

Tolkien borrowed as heavily from real life history and mythology as any of the other two.

>> No.77042893

Far more heavily, actually. Rowling's stuff has no roots except for things that were popular when she was writing Philosopher's Stone.

>> No.77042900

He didn't invent it, he just discovered it by accident without knowing about it.

>> No.77042971
File: 445 KB, 1010x1600, Lora, you can do this.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It ironically says yoy have good taste, because she's behind horrible games with dreadfully bad writing and flat characters, yet sold heavily on "great writing and multidimensional characters"
Pic related is her most recognisable output

>> No.77042982

After reading the entire Silmarillion I am convinced Tolkien is just a hack fraud who keeps retelling the same story over and over again.
Not only that but he keeps creating the same Human Male/ Elven Female self insert love story over and over again to the point where it becomes laughable.
Not only that, but from the perspective of the Silmarillion, even the flagship story of LotR becomes absurd and pointless, when the main villain of the story has been knotted by a magic dog and his singing elf bint before.

>> No.77042992

I'm not the same guy who asked. I just assumed you were being a dick, since anons question wasn't incomprehensible in any way.

If you were actually serious and your english is just bad, I apologize. /tg/ has conditioned me to see snark everywhere.

Anon was asking for reccomendations of authors that are better than Pratchett, but still write in the same literary niche. That niche being fantasy underlayed with dry british humor and social commentary, I guess. Douglas Adams was the writer of Hitchikers guide to the galaxy, which is the ur-example of british wit in literature for many people.

>> No.77043005
File: 55 KB, 346x322, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>[thing] is terrible and it's so bad that people like it wake up sheeple you need to understand that it was shit!
>w-w-w-why are you calling me pretentious!?
>I''m not pretentious, and I wasn't saying [thing] is bad, and I certainly aren't angry about it!
>if you think I was saying [thing] was bad or angry about it, you can't read!
>also I don't really care about this, why do YOU care so much?

>> No.77043040

She's "famous" for writing the exact same character over and over and over again for different games she's writing for. Namely, the bland, unmotivated character that "has to do it". Heavenly Sword was infamous for it, but then there is Mirror's Edge, the '08 Prince of Persia, nuRaider and Thief 4. All populated by the same character who doesn't have any sort of personality or motivation, being solely driven by repeating like a mantra "I have to do it/this". The biggest joke is that everyone, but studios that hire her point that out ever since, but because she's carrying the "proper" surname, it's easy to market to people. The fact sir Terry is quickly fading into obscurity means her career is going nowhere for a while, as nobody cares anymore to cash in on a famous name, as it simply isn't as famous as it used to be, while she never established herself as anything else than a hack

>> No.77043048

What if I also like Terry Pratchett?

>> No.77043049
File: 61 KB, 394x455, 8c7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not that anon, but thanks for new smug face to the collection

>> No.77043070

>Heh, I bet the people in this hobby forum would like to do their hobby full time and not have to work
Midwits legit think this is a clever observation.

>> No.77043073

That manga in general is a great source for smugface.

>> No.77043083

Then you still didn't miss anything of value. Rhianna's writing is completely unrelated to him. It's one of those "my daddy is famous, so I should be famous, too" cases, without having even a quarter of daddy's talent or presence.
But most importantly, it's purely /v/ talk, since that's her venue.

>> No.77043105

>/v/ talk
This explains it. I lost interest in vidya ages ago for some reason, not even sure why it happened. It just stopped doing it for me.

>> No.77043111

Title? Reverse search sends me all over the place, but not to the correct manga, just the image used in comment section for various other titles.

>> No.77043148

And I'm unfortunately a life-long fan of Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia and Thief series. So I had to butt heads with her horrible writing. By Thief 4 I just know it's going to be shit, so I've skipped it, but I still endured '08 PoP and two of nuRaiders.

>> No.77043183

>being forever mentally 14
Haha, yeah that would be terrible. Imagine still being capable of working without procrastinating endlessly.
Or reading a book without getting distracted and losing interest 20 pages in.
Or going 5 seconds without checking youtube/4chan/twitter.
Or sleeping well at night.
Or not giving a shit about politics instead of being increasingly bitter about the state of the world.
Or being fascinated with girls and falling in love every other day instead of being completely disillusioned with and hating women,
Or having fun playing traditional games with friends every weekend instead sitting alone in a cold apartment shitposting in an offtopic thread

>> No.77043207

Sorry, I don't recall. IIRC it has some generic ass title about two girls doing stuff. You could ask /a/, though I wouldn't exactly recommend it. Nice trips by the by.

>> No.77043250

How can you read >>77034294 - a full paragraph of vitriol that feels the need to attack the guys daughter as well, and then claim anon didn't come off as completely buttblasted?

>> No.77043264

Anon, I guess you've missed the important part due to sitting in your basement and having no contact with the outside world beyond internet:
Weekend was 2 days ago, it's currently Tuesday, so until Friday, it's shitposting on /tg/, then back to Twilight 2000

>> No.77043282
File: 121 KB, 500x500, this is how you get syphilis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Not that anon, but the bit about his daughter is true. It's a very well-known case of trying to build your own presence solely on surname, despite being unfit to do that.

>> No.77043293

My guess would be that they're the same guy. That said, Terry's daughter is kinda a shit.

>> No.77043335

The TV series sucked, but everyone's waiting on the next book. I'd genuinely forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

>> No.77043351

>Or sleeping well at night.
>Or not giving a shit about politics
>Or being fascinated with girls and falling in love every other day
These are the only things apply to me though.

>> No.77043352

>a full paragraph of vitriol
Also different anon, but which one that would be? Serious qestion.
First one is about meme status of Pratchett (which is true), his deteriorating quality of writing (also true) and how both he and his daughter just run with the fact he was already established (again, true).
The second one does accuse him of being terrible, but that's a statement, not throwing vitriol.
And the final one is some unrelated note, to the previous discussion at that.
So all in all, while Pratchett gets called bad writer, it happens without "full paragraph of vitriol"
Or we are reading different post?

>> No.77043375

People on /tg/ and /lit/ and other places on 4chan loved it until the show came out. Then, once it became popular, everyone was too ashamed to admit they were fans of it and began to attack it relentlessly.

They hyper focus on its flaws, of which there are many, and buoy up other very popular fantasy franchises like The Black Company and The First Law while tearing down ASoIaF. Mark my words, if any of those novels ever breach the the barrier and make it into the mainstream, then the people here will turn on them just as fast.

I love ASoIaF. There are plenty of flaws with it, but generally speaking if you are a fan of fantasy genre fiction there's something for you to enjoy in ASoIaF. I started reading the books in 2005 when Feast for Crows came out. I'd like to see them finished one day, but don't expect it. The show was garbage an no, ASoIaF is not in the same wheelhouse as LotR. ASoIaF is essentially just pulpy soap opera. Really really long pulpy soap opera, but it's pretty cool regardless.

>> No.77043440

Arguing semantics on 4chan is absolutely pointless, but vitriol in this context means bitter, harsh criticism anon.

>> No.77043461
File: 68 KB, 1200x630, Little Big Shrug.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So I guess the statement about Pratchett being terrible, in single short sentence, is indeed vitriol.

>> No.77043483

>but generally speaking if you are a fan of fantasy genre fiction there's something for you to enjoy in ASoIaF
As long as you are a realismfag and enjoy mud-wrestling, that is.
Otherwise, it's yet another "edgy 90s fantasy edgefest"

>> No.77043500

Our irl gods took off without evidence, why do you think the evidence for the other gods would preclude people from taking on a new faith ala christianity in that world?

>> No.77043512

I don't like Game of Thrones that much.

>> No.77043513

this is what anime does to your brain
have your (you) retard

>> No.77043516

Whats wrong with trying to give realistic humans living in an unrealistic world?

>> No.77043536

>Black company getting a tv-show
God please no. I love the books to death, I don't want to have to deal with everyone on /tv/ and /tg/ shitting on them for the next 10 years.

Also, modern writers would fucking ruin the characters. Lady's character arc is pretty much the most anti-feminist thing in modern literature, I can't see how they'd possibly include her.

>> No.77043573

Not him, but do you really not think the popularity of - say abrahamic religions - would take a blow if the Norse pantheon descended on scandinavia and zapped people with lightning bolts and gave magic powers of rune-scribing to their followers?

>> No.77043601

First, you would need to have realistic humans for that

>> No.77043722


This is /tg/

The place where you can be contrarian just to be contrarian and not face consequences for being human trash.

Asoiaf/got is/was popular, so half* of tg just hates it because popular bad

*"Blah blah blah the doesn't have one opinion blah blah blah" you know who you are contrarian trash

>> No.77043769

>Also different anon, but which one that would be?
The entire post is vitriol, to be honest.

>> No.77043812

Sure, but once everything has settled down for a few generations and Jerry the runescriber who is kind of a dick is running for the mayor it all doesn't seem very magical anymore and people would be happy to accept some HIGHER higher power...

>> No.77044215

>and not face consequences for being human trash
lol, yes brother, I too wish I could mete out justice to these cretins for the heinous crime of shitposting. Truly, I cannot wait for our friends in silicone valley to buy this blasphemous site and turn it into an authoritarian hellhole like twatter and normiebook.

>> No.77044310

It's not strictly true, Jack Vance, R. E. Howard and Clarke Ashton Smith for example are excellent authors, staples of fantasy who are seen as great by some of the best religious fantasy writers, Gene Wolfe and R. A. Lafferty.

>> No.77044525
File: 176 KB, 900x625, Midori edit MGNQ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]



It's led to some nice porn though.

>> No.77044534

Literally everything he said was true.

>> No.77044604
File: 174 KB, 900x900, Pick up your clothes Midori its Chiaki Matsuda who has many scars is hodling a bra of Hanagawa Midori MGNQ.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Even the stuff about taxes?

>> No.77044654


Supremely based

>> No.77045119

>Itt: Pratchett fanboys still coping, nearly 6 years later

>> No.77046385

Nah, everything he said is so wrong it is abundantly clear that his entire experience of the series is second hand gossip about the show. He's also probably single digit IQ considering his political obsession.

>> No.77046710

>So all in all, while Pratchett gets called bad writer, it happens without "full paragraph of vitriol"
>Pratchett is the epitome of a meme that goes out of hand. Even years before Alzheimer all of his books were already shit and he didn't create anything of value past 2000
>he was mediocre at best, terrible at his usual.
>He was simply a hack.
>So I guess the statement about Pratchett being terrible, in single short sentence, is indeed vitriol.

It's another episode of 'why would you go on the internet and lie'

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