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76163390 No.76163390 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

How do we fix Yugioh so games don't end on the first turn?

>> No.76163403

You play the superior Pokemon TCG instead. Have you tried not playing Yugioh?

>> No.76163437

Maybe try what Magic did for Modern and ban all the good cards?

>> No.76163467

Play action to action card games, like Digimon or Legends of Runeterra

>> No.76163750


joey was his own kinda man, a wheelin dealin ramblin thru the land. he was minding his own business when his best friend ugimoto appeared and said to him joey ita time to d d d d, dddd duel

joey attacks yougi and hit his fist for 8 hp of damage!
yugi channels mana...
joey drew card... it was dan xiao!
dan xiao is summoned to the field
dan xiao attacks with crane moon riser foe 18damages
ugi died

Joey: my friend you are injured
(You)gi: you killed me
Joey gained 186 exp and became level 4
Joey: nnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooo

remeber to rate comment subscribe click the bell and visit me on pateeon bros byeee

>> No.76163782

Introduce a resource system

>> No.76164224

just play cards from the first 5 sets minus any of the cards that have been banned (and make sure to limit some others to 1)

>> No.76164271

They literally remade the whole rules so that you can't just shit out Extra Deck monsters into every spot on your field (at least not without some setup), FTK's are a natural progress of a game where there are monsters that have more attack than a player's starting LP.

>> No.76164546

The game has a resource system: One normal summon per turn and the requirement to sacrifice monsters to summon higher level monsters. The problem is that the game design almost immediately forgot about those systems around the time Invasion of Chaos came out.

>> No.76165009

Kill combo decks by making them inconsistent. As for future cards. Make the ED cards cost 4 mats.

>> No.76165029

And make stall/stun/control sacrifice card advantage.

>> No.76165066

Cards that summon from the deck or give draw should be restricted to the main deck too. Niggefiber and t.g. hyper fag should have been for the main deck.

>> No.76165090

Funny how you say that when that when resource system barely evens things out and the same problems happen.

>> No.76166308


>> No.76166313

>They literally remade the whole rules so that you can't just shit out Extra Deck monsters into every spot on your field

>> No.76166347


He's talking about the one month after Link Summons were introduced but before people learned how to make good link summon decks.

>> No.76166432

The only way it's plausible is to introduce a brand new format and carefully tailor the available cards. I think that was what they were trying to do with Speed Duels.
Really that's the only way to go about it, since there are too many cards that can easily search the deck, special summon, or give you an advantage from the graveyard, to the point where any change to the rules to try and artificially slow things down would effectively need to render a bunch of cards worthless anyway.
Either that, or you do introduce an extremely harsh and limiting arbitrary rule like only allowing players to conduct one special summon per turn, but even that's probably easily worked around by some deck, and would probably still break the functionality of a lot of cards.

>> No.76166468
File: 102 KB, 1862x323, Screenshot_2020-11-16 tg - magic mourning general mmg - Traditional Games - 4chan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Since you guys are probably YuGiOh players, can any of you ask me what is the cancer killing your game (if any)?
Us Magic: the Gathering players have, up until recently, historically enjoyed some level of archetype diversity in eternal formats. The decline in the skill, fun, and accessibility of the game has been thanks to deliberate power-creep and disregard for card balance guidelines. Are art is also getting uglier and blander and products are also getting to be more unreasonably harder to acquire affordably thanks to their pandering to whales.

>> No.76166579

YGO threads should not be made by anyone who has never at least Day 2'd a YCS.

>> No.76166645

Yu-Gi-Oh has been on the power-creep train for a long while, which mostly results in a problem with accessibility. A casual player or an older fan hoping to return to the game is going to have a drastically different view of what a deck is supposed to be compared to what's actually played. It'd be like playing one Standard set and then jumping into a Legacy tournament.

>> No.76166646

Some ideas:
Limit the number of monsters you can special summons from the extra deck to 5 per turn. Forces combo decks to hone in on a specific strat and not use your extra deck as an extender. Should make turns have more choke points for meaningful card interaction.
Make a pre game start trap phase where both players can place traps to use turn one. Allows generic old school negates and traps to shine once again. Also makes some of those shitty trap extenders viable in the right kind of deck.

>> No.76167881

I've been saying something like this for a while. The issue is that you're essentially playing an eternal format as the only one, so Konami's problem is that they need to consider all existing cards before they print something, because otherwise they'll make unintended synergy with something they printed a decade ago, which is exactly what happened with Substitoad.
So Konami has really leaned into archetypes, which were already present in the game but have obviously gotten more prominent because archetypes are mostly self-contained and can be adequately hamstrung by banning linchpin cards, which conveniently puts them in a position for planned obsolescence to push the next pack's archetype.

If Konami would have tournaments and recognize formats that aren't Legacy or Vintage (essentially), they could break the cycle. It would require them to reprint stuff like MST, Solemn Judgement/Warning or whatever, but that's easily handled by making stuff like reprint packs that never rotate out.
This alone wouldn't solve all the problems of the game but it'd make a decent dent. You could stop the power creep. But I really doubt that Konami would do it, considering it'd be a tacit admission that Magic handles their formats and banlist better than they do. They'll just milk the game until it dies because most YGO players are the same kind of whales that pay hundreds of dollars for lootboxes and facebook games.

>> No.76169516

Add a rule that no Life Point Damage may be dealt on each player's first turn.

>> No.76169551

this thread is a gold mine

>> No.76169745

Have you tried playing duel masters?

>> No.76172488

Yes and look at Duel links. Theyr experiment. They should learn by now they need to keep cards as close as possible to the main mechanics. They can't make the extradeck an engine. The best use of the ED is as a tool box not a mini engine or a place to have stun cards like V.F.D.

>> No.76172547

Homogenization of combo decks. Combining aggro strategies to stun strategies making 3 to 6 mat negations. Complete disregard of card trading. Seriously the best formats were the ones where games got grindy enough you have to do trades to gain advantage. We have been basicalky stuck in your combo winter scenario for some time but with burts of prison/control decks coming in and out of the game.

>> No.76172649

Also to add
Deck construction has gone to shit since the introduction of archetypes. They are so contained nowadays you can barely mix them.

Be warned I have seen signs of the same happening in your game.

>> No.76173068

>A casual player or an older fan hoping to return to the game is going to have a drastically different view of what a deck is supposed to be compared to what's actually played.
Can confirm. I played up to the GX era and dropped out before XYZ and Synchro shit were introduced. I tried to get back into yugioh about 2 years ago and the game is completely unrecognizable.

>> No.76173559

> only 2 special summons per turn
> 4 cards on hand
> no more closed archetypes
> 12000HP

>> No.76173578

Games start on T2

>> No.76174306

return to tradition.... play goat format......

>> No.76177938

From the OG era, 12 years old Yu-Gi-Oh lover who played more Duelist of The Roses than the actual game.

I remember playing GX and that there were some XYZ cards, but that these specific cards were different from the NEW XYZ, and I don't even know how that works.

>> No.76178045

You play mtg

Oh wait...

>> No.76178067

That was Orcust-Thunder-Sky striker format
everything changed with halq

>> No.76178131

one special summon and one magic negation per turn limit

>> No.76178273

It's well known that the balance of YGO has repeatedly shit the bed. At what point however did it peak with all cards available?

>> No.76179097

Yugioh has been dead for like over a decade anon

>> No.76181861

Without new cards carefully being added it is stale.

>> No.76181892

did no TCG ever

>> No.76181914

2010-2012 pre legendary six sam.
The decks were:
Plant synchro/dandy warrior
Black wing
Dragon good stuff ft future fusion and 5 headed dragon
Gladiator beasts
Frog monarchs
There are more but my memory is not good rn.

>> No.76181946

In this scenario the player base is making a custom list not a company.

>> No.76182372

It is a case of them trying to fix what isn't broke. This is why pretty much every other TCG has a resource system.

>> No.76182537

Except most games reformed it to remove it from the deck.

It does not fix anything either the cost either makes the card unplayable or sets a timer wich is funny when ramp is introduced. It literally comes down to card design. Resource system or not. Look at mtg. Look at Uro and Omnath as recent examples the design is horrendous. Look at oko and t3feri.

My point is the system just sets a delay and fixes nothing if you ignore your card pool and how the cards interact or how much they restrict the opponent you get those garbage cards.

>> No.76182580

i just got back into the game this year and haven't actually played a real match so this is coming from purely an observational standpoint, but from the way i've seen matches play out i think both these changes would help tremendously

>> No.76182605

>Except most games reformed it to remove it from the deck.

>It does not fix anything either the cost either makes the card unplayable or sets a timer wich is funny when ramp is introduced. It literally comes down to card design. Resource system or not. Look at mtg. Look at Uro and Omnath as recent examples the design is horrendous. Look at oko and t3feri.
Blame the cancerous FIRE design. Yu-gi-oh is like a car without seatbelts.

>> No.76182695

You have other instances of this in older sets. Believe it or not yugioh had some good formats outside goat. 2010 to 2012 pre legendary six sam. 2015 to 2019 during DUEA. These glimmers of good formats appear when the retarded shet cycles out and we are near a transition period. The same happens to standard in mtg. They need to do proper design.

>> No.76183030

At this point, only a reboot will save Yugioh. They introduced way too much bullshit cards and just stacked mechanics on top of mechanics for no reason.

>> No.76183070

I mean what does "it" mean.
>Except most games reformed it to remove it from the deck.
Is "it" a resource system? Because it is still a limiting factor unless you are talking about the Vintage format or Legacy format. Still I wanted to try out alternate resource systems like FoW or Duel Masters rather than completely abandoning them like in Yu-Gi-Oh. However, YGO players can't understand the mechanics of any other card game besides YGO.

>> No.76183228

Isn't that what speed duels are.

>> No.76183233

To clarify, I tried to explain the point of keywords like how Yu-Gi-Oh can't have mechanic like "Flying" then he said to make a monster have an effect which states that it can't be blocked by all monsters except "bird type" Monsters not knowing that basically retroactively affects all bird monsters past and future. Then because I can't translate effect of a monster to something less wordy in a card game that avoid using keywords as much as possible (because PSCT is stupid), that somehow proves that having less tools somehow makes the game "deeper".

>> No.76183259
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>> No.76183321

This may be a controversial take but Synchro summons are what began the death knell of this game.

>> No.76183434

I could see that. By comparison fusion and ritual monsters are a lot more limited in how easy they are to summon, and while initially there were more synchro monsters that had more awkward levels and required more specific tuners, it didn't stay that way. It also started the trend of Konami wanting to constantly introduce new summoning types with each anime series which also isn't a very sustainable plan.

>> No.76183593

Yea that's what I thought. Made the extra deck a lot more flexible.

Fusion and ritual monsters are more interesting to me than most of the extra deck garbage they've made since then, and it's because fusion monsters with flexible summoning requirements (Five Headed Dragon, Chimeratech, etc) are the exception, not the rule, and the closest ritual monsters get is Advanced Ritual Art and Contract with the Abyss. It's more difficult than "add levels together" and "three of a kind."
I liked some of the contact fusion stuff, and powerful fusion monsters with more difficult summoning requirements like no subs, chain material and other fun stuff to negate the card disadvantage.
The Djinns were pretty cool too even if the good one got banned. The only problem is that Nekroz and other decks are just plain stupid because they were over supported.

I miss my boys Relinquished, Zorc and Demise.

>> No.76184656

give support to old archetypes. instead of just making new ones with similar playstyles.

>> No.76185294

ITT: old casuals who never understood the appeal of yugioh

>> No.76185346

Halq and Linkross have lead to the homogeneity of combo decks and both of them need to be eliminated from the game to make combo actually take effort rather than durr hurr me summon tuner me win

>> No.76185359

lol Zorc was literally always trash and Relinquished was shit until a couple of years ago when it got a bunch of support.

>> No.76185426

I always thought a middle ground between Yugioh and PCTG would be pretty cool.
>active/bench mechanic
>push incredibly strong card draw
>multiple turn attacks (IE energy costs) but without energy

>hand traps/spells for interaction
>requiring monsters to be sacrificed for better monsters
>archetype based design, ideally with a little more fluidity (like Type spam instead of hard coding cards to only work with specific archetypes)

basically a super fast paced game where both players are trying to play solitaire, but have strong from hand interactions and built in multiple turn planning to promote depth and gameplay. Would you guys play it?

>> No.76185486
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This is exactly the reason why Yugioh is the only Tcg game that I ever play.

>> No.76185496

my go to is always stuff like Gladiator Beasts and Ghosttricks, incredibly parasitic designs that create a unique feeling when you play them. The idea of monsters tagging each other in and out as needed or cute ghosts trying to scare you to death is really neat, and one of the few advantages resourceless (and Summons/board space for all purposes are not resources) is that you can design very parasitically with no real downsides. Set a rough power level, some guidelines for what all archetypes should get (conditionally better than normal effects by doing what the archetype wants you to, spam a Type or Traps or Spells or whatever) and a clear unique mechanical twist only they get. Do that 10-15 times, with the occasional general support ala Type or Attribute support, and you’ve got an incredible game.

>> No.76185552

how into it are you? do you like the current state? is it sustainable?

>> No.76185979

ghostrick bro i feel you, can the deck be fixed? please please let me put links face down please

>> No.76186024
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Generic negation ED monsters need to die. All combo decks just railroad into how many negations they can shit out in one turn and all just become clones of one another.

Other than that the game is better than its ever been unless youre extremely butthurt about your deck getting hit by the banlist.

>> No.76186179

XYZ is pretty easy: Take two monsters with the same number of stars, sacrifice them, special summon an XYZ monster with the same number of stars from the extra deck. Some XYZ monsters require more than two, or have special type/archtype requirements. That's it.

Compare that to the nightmare that is Pendulum Summoning or Link monsters, and it's night and day. XYZ had it's issues, but everything after that has been horrible.

>> No.76186722

Combo decks are fine and are a filter between good players and bad players.

>> No.76186731

Nobody cares about your bias against these certain cards since they can easily be countered.

>> No.76186740

No, synchros were the revolution that made this game good. Xyz was what killed this game.

>> No.76187866

Because the design intentionally makes it so. Every card has defender and reach basically. The idea was to make creatures fight each other like a cock fighr. Not mtgs flavour where each creature is a tool in a spellbook.

>> No.76187878

Yes the resource System. Many games now a days take it out of the deck. The only limit it ptovides is a timer. Wich is useless when you have ramp or reanimator strategies.

Hell look at garfields new games. He keeps leaving out the resource system.

>> No.76187893

No they are not. Memorizing a pattern tree is not skill.
The only good thing it did was using thevresource system properly. After that it turned into a shit show.

>> No.76188018

>Many games now a days take it out of the deck.
You mean a separate deck like FoW or a just an increasing number like Heart Stone (technically not a real card game) because that still serves its purpose.

>Hell look at garfields new games. He keeps leaving out the resource system.
Nobody cares about the Dota card game to actually know. Imagine that there is still a resource system.

First no, Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't do that. Second, I was just making a point on how keywords can be useful beyond just shortening. Technically, Yu-Gi-Oh does have keywords. Third, there is a reason why Yu-Gi-Oh has to rely on "all cards with 'X' in their name" type effects and how translations fuck it up.

>> No.76188138

Yes ygo does do that. That is why you don't choose to attack face.translation on lk y fucks up with the cards from the upperdeck era because they had a stick up theyr ass. The reason for the naming specification of effect is because the game has no color pie and some cards are drsigned for specific creature cards. Like your planewalkers wich some have cards that specifically names them or theyr creature type.

>> No.76188173

Btw the games I tslked about is keyforge

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