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75275400 No.75275400 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Isekai has become a very popular premise, particularly in Japanese media (though it technically existed earlier, Narnia could be considered an early example of the concept), which has popularized several setting and story elements, like the fantasy world having levels, classes, skills, etc., similar to an RPG, an overpowered protagonist, the (usually male) protagonist having a harem of girls, who are usually powerful in their own right, et cetera... From a writing/worldbuilding perspective, how can we put a new spin and/or explain and justify some Isekai elements, giving the genre a breath of fresh air?

>Many Isekai stories start with the protagonist being summoned into the fantasy world, often because of a threat like a Demon Lord. What makes a newcomer to the world the best choice? Or should they end up in the fantasy world by accident?
>Isekai protagonists are often rather overpowered, what are some ways that they could be strong but not broken? What are some good limitations on their powers, or powers to avoid entirely?
>Regarding the levels, skills, classes, and similar RPG elements, what would cause these elements to exist, and what are the logical consequences of them existing as a setting element?
>Often the MC is a young male who gains a harem, what is the best way for him to gain one without it seeming contrived, and have the women accept it? What if the MC is female, should she gain a reverse-harem? What else would change with a female MC?
>The idea of "dungeons" spawning monsters, and adventurers searching them for treasures, is a common fantast trope. What is a good way to apply it in Isekai stories?
>Considering how many Isekai are fantasy stories, what about a science fiction Isekai? What major changes to the classic Isekai formula could happen as a result?

Previous thread >>75221877

The last thread ran all the way to the bump limit and further, so I decided to make a new one.

>> No.75275561

>>75275400
All of the "trope" listed here have being broken by plenty of works
There are series about people in other world having to deal with Isekai people.
There's nothing to spin at this point.

>> No.75275747

>>75275071
>So in other words, it was always awful, and limited number of translations helped to cover that up, but the main reason is the misconception that anime is some sort of auteur stuff

Nah, nobody has thought anime was actually an arthouse genre since the 90s. And back when they DID, it was literally the fault of theatrical releases like Jin-Roh and GitS which were written assuming everyone in the audience had already read the story, then brought over to the US where people with no prior knowledge of that story thought it was "up to interpretation" because the plot wasn't being infodumped at them the entire time.

We had the whole TokyoPop bubble and crash over a decade ago at this point precisely because companies kept bringing over trash with no editorial discernment, and anyone who looks can see there are a hundred shows a season of which 95-98 are just some random shit being made to fill a timeslot.

>> No.75275768

>>75275400
Let me try tackling Dungeons.

Dungeons, aka Don Jon, aka Great Tower were originally a form of training facility where rookie combatants would have a chance to gain practical experience in a semi-controlled environment. The Dungeon would create monster-like golems and imbed natural resources inside them as a prize for successful participants.

However, the techniques for creating dungeons was always kept secret and after a time the knowledge to build and maintain them has all but disappeared. There's likely some manual or textbook or instruction manual hidden in some long forgotten library but finding that is an adventure for another time. Sufficient to say, modern dungeons are rare and usually dangerous with pseudo-monsters leaking out now and then.

Originally, all dungeons were above ground but it was found that building them underground let them leech minerals from the ground and over the eons most of the above ground dungeons got knocked over.

>> No.75275870

>>75275400
Isekai is trash and a pox in the Japanese fiction industry. However, there's no need to fix it - because it's a nonissue in the West. The cancers in the Western fiction industry are totally different and unrelated.

>>75275747
>Jin-Roh

Jin-Roh is the most accessible movie in the Kerberos saga; and as a prequel, contains none of the characters from the 'Red Spectacle's or 'Kerberos Panzer Cop.' It was also many times more successful than the latter two films, and is the starting point by which most people get into the other Kerberos Saga media (and the Tachiguishi rabbit hole).

>> No.75276114
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75276114

Haven't read through the entire first thread to see if these points have been brought up already, but the basic premise of an isekai is actually incredibly well suited for ttrpgs.
>easy character creation by picking various backgrounds and real life professions that may or may not translate into various skills in fantasy-lands
>easy excuse for players to all start at level 1 low-level adventurers trying to survive in a foreign land
>players and characters both start with little to no knowledge about the world
>the question of how they got there, why they got there and how they eventually can return back, if they want to, is an immediate and easy prompt for long campaigns
>might as well make them all chosen ones with special powers, simple explanation for why these characters can become so powerful
>adventurers guild work well enough for half-serious settings, and can be turned into something more reasonable like explorers guilds or mercenary companies
>setting tone can range from whimsical and funny to more serious and dark
The problem with isekai is rather tired dumb tropes, self-insert power fantasies and retarded gimmicks. Throw those out and you may have a good campaign going on the basic premise of an isekai.

>> No.75276118
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75276118

>>75275400
>He just reposted the old OP, even if was all solved
You fucking mongoloid, it's like you WANT those threads to turn into a shitstorm

>> No.75276134

>>75275747
>Being this wrong
It's hilarious, especially when one considers you want to sound smug while discussing Western audiences ignorance

>> No.75276186

Why is this thread a thing? This is an /a/ thread, and has nothing to do with /tg/.

>> No.75276237
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75276237

>>75275978
Limited access, limited translations, cherry-picking of works that get imported, media and review bias daily reminder Carmaggeddon is used to this day to discuss vidya brutality and general bottleneck effect, further made worse by cultish behaviour.
The last one in particular is noticable if you realise how 30 years ago, you were lucky to get 2 different series from a season released outside of Japan and released without much delay, while today you can get pretty much everything released any given season accessible globaly and with proper translation done next day.
So you end up with the feeling that something is "wrong", because suddenly all the trash is in the menu, rather than any sort of selection going on.
The bottleneck of old also leads to situations when terrible, generic shonens from the 90s that still managed to get imported are cherrished as some sort of greatest shit ever and not just due to nostalgia, but because back in the day, that was literally all that got translated and released. I know people who still consider Yu Yu Hakusho to be artistic and high-brow, solely because that was the only anime that was around their reception.

>> No.75276252

>>75276186
Because OP has genuine autism. It became clear in the previous thread. Just eyeball through the last 30 posts in it and you will realise he's mental.

>> No.75276471

Is Monster's Inc. an isekai?

>> No.75276521

>>75276186
You can use some stuff from here: >>75175550 to create your own self-insert isekai adventure

>>75276471
I think that one is just portal modern fantasy. Usually with isekai you are stuck in the new world, even though there are exceptions like Inuyasha

>> No.75276543

>>75276521
I can use anything from /a/ to help make a solo rpg session, but that doesn't mean it's /tg/.

>> No.75276702

>>75275400
Don't think about checking any boxes. Just take the basic premise of "teenager sent to another world" and do whatever you want with it. Whatever it is that you do, just do it well.

>> No.75277276

>>75275400
>giving the genre a breath of fresh air?
Simple: take the name of the genre, 'Isekai', and toss out all the rest of the garbage tropes and shit. Send a character with some semblance of a personality to a world that's truly alien, not 'generic japanese D&D land #20,037', and have them actually have to survive there. Even if executed amateurishly, at least it will be something unique.
Also, above anons are right, OP you should have posted this on /a/.

>> No.75277445
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75277445

>>75277276

>> No.75277696
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75277696

>>75277276
Already done

With so many isekai out there you really think there's an idea that isn't used?

>> No.75278288

>>75277696
>Implying anon has any idea how fuck-huge the genre is
Why do you think we have those threads on regular basis? Do you think this is due to people being well-informed or at least following the genre beyond flavour of the season anime?

>> No.75278364

>>75277445
Fuck off. An isekai isn't required to be 'nondescript male protagonist is sent to a generic as fuck fantasy world and they are also OP'.

>>75277696
There's always room for new ideas. off the top of my head, a protagonist could go to:
>literal fucking hell (a little less harsh probably, so there's more of a story than 'get tortured by demons forever')
>infinite underground world
>quasi-science fiction world, in which the world is a massive space station/artificial machine planet but the people have devolved back into feudal societies.
>Fantasy moon world
Could probably develop those ideas more, but it proves my point. There are still tons of ideas to use.
Sauce on the pic, though?

>> No.75278396

>>75278288
I want to be introduced to good Isekai outside of the flavor of the season stuff. Enlighten me.

>> No.75278421

>>75275400
>MC goes to fantasy world to save his own world.
>MC is strong, but unskilled.
>Don't think about it. Just ignore it.
>The weak should fear the strong.
>Dungeons are otherworldly incursions.
>Samurai Jack, nigga.

>> No.75278462

>>75278396
Futurama is my favorite isekai anime

>> No.75278539

>>75278364
aside from the first one (since I don't think getting tortured by demon forever make for much a story)
the rest I know all had work of already.

Karate Survivor in another world.

>> No.75278679

>>75278396
We already did that in the previous threads, listing in total 36 titles.
41 if you count spin-offs to some of those

>> No.75278701
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75278701

>>75278364
.. are you doing this on purpose?
I mean it's like you deliberately are blasting in the opposite direction

>> No.75278726
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75278726

>>75278539
>aside from the first one (since I don't think getting tortured by demon forever make for much a story)
Alright, not literal hell, but more like a world that's an amalgamation of all those bizarre hell renaissance paintings and Dante's Inferno, with the people in it not necessarily being tortured forever but simply having to live within this bizarre punishment. Demons could be simply the monsters/fauna (so you have things like tamed demons and demon livestock) of the world.

>the rest I know all had work of already.
Shit really?

>> No.75278751

>>75278701
The fuck is the point here?

>> No.75278807

>>75278364
These are problems with a specific type of Japanese genre fiction. Outside a weeb context, these aren't common issues with Western (Connecticut Yankee, Three Hearts and Three Lions, John Carter) takes on the "transported into a strange land" plot device. Isekai, as we bitch about it, exists within a Japanese context. And there's no reason for you, as a Westerner, to use it's genre conventions, since your audience won't get or won't have these conventions resonate with them.

>> No.75278818
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75278818

>>75278364
>>75278701
Just to clarify, before you embarass yourself some more with another stupid reply:
The point was that just because you won't call it isekai won't change shit.
Instead, you got ass-mad about your perception of the genre, like every single faggot ever that bitches about isekai.

>> No.75278859

>>75278807
Funny how all three of works you've listed created their own, god-awful subgenres that are nothing more than a powerwank fantasies, often mirred in alt-hist wank to add insult to injury.
But clearly, it is only isekai and only the one from past 5 years that sucks...

>> No.75278968

>>75278726
Logically speaking a guy from another world would need some hilariously OP cheat to survive in a hellscape like that.
You are looking at going to Hell as Dante from DMC at that point.

I know 1 work on (assumed almost) infinite dungeon to go into
quasi-science fiction (fantasy world that's actually sci-fi) is not that uncommon to begin with.
Not sure what you mean by moon world thou, on the moon or?

>> No.75278990
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75278990

So I'm wasting my time waiting for this thread to start talking about actual traditional games?

>> No.75279008
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75279008

>>75278990

>> No.75279248

>>75278679
Just saying, most of that was really old stuff people have already seen or more of the same garbage. I mean, shit nigga, we all know Escaflowne and Rayearth exist, but saw those literally decades agi.

>> No.75279269

>>75278990
Frieren a cute.

>> No.75279292

>>75278990
I recommend just reporting OP for offtopic bullshit

>> No.75279339

>>75278968
>Logically speaking a guy from another world would need some hilariously OP cheat to survive in a hellscape like that.
Not necessarily. My general idea is that the world does have some measure of pre-existing civilization built by previous people dropped in the hell land, not necessarily thriving but still scraping by and giving it their all.

>Not sure what you mean by moon world thou, on the moon or?
The moon has a ton of mythology surrounding it, especially of civilizations and people living on the moon. You could do a lot with that.

>>75278990
You're pretty shit out of luck, anon.

>> No.75279362

>>75278462

>when everyone in your family basically planted the foundation so that you find yourself in a timeline where despite having a senile old man as your go to relative, they made the best of their lives and missed you very much

>> No.75279387

>>75275978

Cartoons at the the time was sterile and sanitized as shit. No actual guns or talking about death allowed

>> No.75279407

>>75278990
I know, and this is the second time this thead has been made, a literal copy paste job.

>> No.75279563

>>75279339
A guy who know nothing of a hellscape is just gonna die.
A local civilization is not gonna have the resource to same no-good junk.
Cautious Hero from second world onward are all hellscapes.
Yes a good amount of cheat is needed.

Moon is heavily written in Eastern mythology, there actually isn't much to write about these days.

>> No.75279634
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75279634

>>75275400
American Isekai. An alt-right organization is transported to the past and starts supplying the south with AK-47. Will the USA win the war or the racist CSA will end victorious ?

You gotta read all the 10 books to find out.

>> No.75279716

>>75278364
it's worth noting of your four 'novel' ideas there are two that form the basis of reasonably popular series.

>> No.75279752
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75279752

>>75279248
Funny, because that list included a pretty wide spectrum, included current season.
You bothered to check those titles... righ?

>> No.75279800

>>75279634
That's just time travel novel, anon.
And not particularly good one, especially given Turtledove standard

>> No.75279848
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75279848

>>75278807
>>75279634
Why do people routinely put time travel and isekai into the same basket, but in the same time argue that "portal fantasy" isn't isekai?

>> No.75279880

>>75279716
Which series?
I will fully admit, it's entirely possible I subconsciously ripped off a few series I had seen at some point.

>> No.75280055

>>75279800
>>75279848

isekai == "portal fiction." time travel only counts if it's back into a mythical past, otherwise it's just alt-history.

>> No.75280146

>>75280055
Which is my point exactly: why the fuck people mess it up on routine basis? Seems obvious to me that time travel is just time travel, while portal fantasy's main difference from isekai is that it refers to works not made by Japanese.
Yet here we are, with some idiot posting Turtledove's book

>> No.75280816

>>75279634
People actually publish alt history in 2020?

I thought it pretty much imploded and became even more niche around 2012.

>> No.75280822

>>75280146
>Uses McGuffin
>Go to another time and space
Noooooooooooooooooooo not Isekai !!!!!!!!!

>> No.75280996

>>75280816
That book is probably older than you, as it came out in '92

>>75280822
>Established Genre A is in fact part of Established Genre B
>By the power of me not understanding what either of those genres even is about
Must be tough being illiterate while using an internet board

>> No.75281122

>>75280996
I'm aware of that. I just can't think of any notable alt-history books from this decade. The most recent two I can think of are 163X and Axis of Time, and those started in the early-mid 2000s

>> No.75281175

>>75280822
Was it made by Nip(s)?
If not, it's not isekai.
Does it involve time travel and ONLY time travel, rather than different dimension or fantasy counterpart?
If so, it's a time travel genre.
Compare the following:
>Outlander
By means unknown, Claire ends up 202 years in the past compared to her "now". And has to deal with it. Is it isekai? Of course fucking not.
>Thermae Romae
By means of Japanese folk belief about magical passages, Roman architect ends up in Japanese onsen, then goes back home and replicates it. Is it isekai? Of course fucking not, despite being a manga made by bunch of Nips
>KonoSuba
Looser gets a seizure out of shame where a tractor almost run him over, reborns into a fantasy universe and everything follows the format of Wizardy-inspired Japanese MMORPG, along with copious amount of further Japanese elements. Is it isekai? You bet it is.

It's that fucking simple, you fucking moron.

>> No.75281289

>>75281122
>notable
>163X
Is that shit even still a thing?

As far as I care, it's a good thing that the alt-his bullshit died outside of political wank done by "political activists" (read: bored no-lifes leaching on gullible idiots, selling them "set wrong right" bullshit).
I find it ironic that the previous decade was dominated by that crap, reached oversaturation and disappeared... only to be replaced with oversaturation of isekai. But at least isekai doesn't try (on average) to even bother with politics, while alt-hist is almost entirely a power-wank combined with politics-wank. Not that it makes it of better quality, but hey, it's something

>> No.75281571

>>75275400
there can be no discussion.
Only annihilation

>> No.75281711

>>75281175
because you have things like Kaifuku Jutsushi no Yarinaoshi where some people would say its isekai while some would say its not.

>> No.75281764

>>75281711
... did I stutter?

>> No.75281878

>>75281711
>guys travels in time
>i-isekai
You're one dense motherfucker

>> No.75281909

>>75281289
>Is that shit even still a thing?
My point precisely. The decline and fall of alt-history is yet another indication that the western fiction market is different from Japan's.

>> No.75281919
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75281919

>>75278364
>quasi-science fiction world, in which the world is a massive space station/artificial machine planet but the people have devolved back into feudal societies.
it's pretty much been done

>> No.75282442

>>75278462
Personally I prefer Brutal Legend

>> No.75284074
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75284074

>>75275400

>> No.75284313

>>75281878
>Guy in fantasy world turns back to "reborn' as his past-self to relive his life
It could be considered isekai tensei.

not really time travel since he didn't "go back in time"

>> No.75284583
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75284583

>>75275400
Needs more dwarves.

>> No.75284629

I read this isekai recently about an FPS character ending up it your standard isekai fantasy world and him shooting goblins. It was neat but I got bored and dropped it.

>> No.75284755
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75284755

>>75284583
>dwarves are tall
This makes me irrationally angry but I'll forgive it because the series is actually a good Isekai.

>> No.75284781
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75284781

I want to write an Isekai Story of someone like a warrior who came from a brutal Beserk like world and ends up Isekai'd into a Slice of Life Japan story like say, Hidamari Sketch.

It would be the person's first chance at a life of peace and happiness and not war and bloodshed.

>> No.75285160

>>75284781
You just described The Devil is a Part-Timer

>> No.75285481

>>75280816
>People actually publish alt history in 2020?

I'm sure someone does, every microgenre has its audience now. I couldn't name any of them though, because I've never bought anything that told Amazon to try and sell it to me, while I did buy stuff that makes them try and sell me a billion indie "dark fantasy" books about some guy's Tiefling Warlock OC.

>> No.75285489

>>75275400
do you have zero self esteem where you are even considering the idea of "isekai" as a real thing?

>> No.75285521

>>75280816
>People actually publish alt history in 2020?
or course, though now more for purpose of political agitation rather than speculative entertainment

>> No.75286005

>>75284583
This looks pretty cool, do you have the Sauce?

>> No.75286544

>>75286005
Shinju no Nectar. It's a series wherein the MC gains the superpowers of Hindu gods by drinking breast milk. Yes, it was written by the same guy who wrote Seikon no Qwaser. Why do you ask?

>> No.75286641

>>75286544
That feels like someone's magical realm got out of hand

>> No.75287323

>>75286641
everything by the author is basically like a magical realm got out of hand

>> No.75287521

>>75285160
Eeeh no, that story still carries the crap from the old world and there's combat and action still. I'm talking full on healing anime.

>> No.75289017

>>75287521
>Eeeh no, that story still carries the crap from the old world
What old world crap?

>> No.75290743

>>75279634
>tfw somebody posted that book cover on another board a couple of years ago and it looked so bizarrely entertaining that I went and read the whole thing a chunk at a time on some weird Russian piecemeal HTML pirate site
It wasn’t an alt-right organization btw, it was South African apartheid revivalists who kept confusing people by talking about kaffirs and Israelis (“Good Suh, do ya’ll mean to say Israelites?”)
I enjoyed it but I wouldn’t recommend it as general reading, more like if you’re the kind of guy who wonders “what if somebody gave General Lee a shitload of assault rifles?” in his spare time.
there’s a slutty Mulan subplot that’s apparently based on a real person but unfortunately it’s not as fun as you might expect a slutty Mulan subplot to be.

>> No.75290809

>>75290743
>It wasn’t an alt-right organization
>it was South African apartheid revivalists
I mean... you can't go more alt-right than that. At least when this is read nowdays, since back in '92, it was completely different political situation and landscape.
Either way, shitty book, even for Turtledove standards

>> No.75290953

>>75290809
I understand what you mean but please understand that it sounds ridiculous when you say it. It’s like calling Leonidas of Sparta a white supremacist, or saying that Rourke’s Drift was a turning point in the Black Lives Matter movement.

>> No.75291033

>>75290953
And I understand your point, but I still maintain that the book is perfect for the alt-right term to be used to describe those guys. It is set (at least their future) and written in times when Apartheid was already dismantled and you had all sort of reactionary groups in SAR that were neighter your standard right, nor white supremacists nor conservatives, not to mention religious (reminder that one of the most important aspects of traditional Boer recognition used to be religion, all the way till tail end of the 80s).
So what emerged from that political clusterfuck was alt-right by all means. It just isn't the same "type" of alt-right when you drop this term nowdays, becuase both those movements in SAR died down and/or changed, while the alt-right as a political identification completely changed meaning.
Am I clear enough with this?

>> No.75291098

>>75290953
>>75291033
Also, as far as that book goes, my biggest issue was the fact that they were explicitly handling AK-47s and blueprints for production. That's so... cheap. Not in sense of weapon used, but cheap as a plot element. So you've got time-travel in the future, but they couldn't hire a team of gunsmiths or an arms company to design for them a strip-down, low-tech version of just about any given gun, but had to bring AK-47, a gun that absolutely requires a MASSIVE industrial base to make it, since it's a whole fuckload of stamping and milling.
For fuck's sake, they could just set up Henry rifle workshops with loader tube and it wouldn't require so many issues they deal with in the book.
Also, Turtledove has a fetish for dicking Lee as some sort of messianic figure that fought for the "wrong" side, completely missing the memo the guy didn't give squat about politics.

>> No.75291437

>>75290809
Different anon and I like this book. Not due to what it is about (not to mention that ACW is a footnote in history for me, as I'm not American), but as a case study.
A case study why alt-his is a terrible idea for a setting for games.
The first quarter of the book is the "event" part of alt-his, where things get changed (and pretty substantially). However, the change is so severe and drastic, it completely puts the history as known into a whack, leaving rest of the book as operation in utterly alien word, where if you aren't familiar with bunch of surnames, nothing is the same anymore, and even if you're familiar with them, they will soon be replaced by people nobody normally ever heard before.
So in the end you are left not as much with alt-history as an interesting setting, but alt-hist as something so alien from "normal" history, you might as well just create a fictional setting and be done with it.
And this is something consistent in Turtledve books: they all start with a somewhat familiar setup, then go into such places and directions, he might be simply writting a fictional stuff entirely, as ultimately the fact it's Earth, but different works agains each and every of his stories.

>> No.75293671

>>75287323
>everything by the author is basically like a magical realm got out of hand
How would you "fix" the setting, then?

>> No.75295131

>>75284781
Bad idea, conflicting themes like that don't work.
No matter how you slice it it will fail
>Write comfy slice of life
>Lose your audience when you get to grimdark portions
Or
>Write grimdark
>Lose your audience when you start writing comfy slice of life healing

Berserk itself ran into this same problem.

>> No.75295172

>>75293671
Different anon but there's nothing to "broken" about the series. Despite clearly being a fetish series the worldbuilding is on point for the most part. MC gets pulled into a conflict between !Britain and !Yemen on behalf of a princess of a third, and smaller, fallen kingdom who was conducting an ancient ritual to summon a "god warrior" from another world. The story has an underlying theme of Magic vs Science and it's apparent that magic has both harmed and helped their world at large; by giving them access to people from across earth's history which has led to various technological innovations bringing this place to the industrial revolution with pockets of even more modern technology available given the right circumstances. But also leaving behind WMD's and ancient sites of immense interest and power. Each location we visit is reasonably fleshed out, the groups that control them and the reasons why the MC has to visit them and what takes place are also compelling.

It's not a perfect story but if that counts as a magical realm, it's an acceptable one.

>> No.75297075
File: 220 KB, 1048x1450, 81xQ8CMCnyL._AC_SL1450_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75297075

>>75275400
I was thinking, what if the scenario was something similar to picture related, if played more seriously, and with someone else originally owning the body the MC is currently using (instead of a guy ending up in the body of his PVP video game character and only able to socially handle himself in social situations or combat by taking on his roleplaying persona as a "demon lord")?

Basically, take your typical demon lord or similar villain, pillaging and conquering with his army, then the MC, from a world like ours, gets jammed into his body, and has to deal with the consequences of the villain's actions. And what if the villain is stuck sharing the body with him, just no longer the one fully in control or something? Is it an interesting plot?

>> No.75298392

>>75297075
>first half
... waaat?

>second half
Already done and the result was meh

>> No.75298853

>>75275400
>what are some ways that they could be strong but not broken?
Knowledge.

>> No.75299510
File: 19 KB, 300x300, The ultimate wizard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75299510

>>75298853
>Knowledge
This guy gets it. Remember kids - pay attention to school lectures.

>> No.75300177

>>75299510
Season 2 or bust.
Paul was fucking insufferable. Not that Kathy was much better, but at least she wasn't Paul.

>> No.75300921

>>75295172
its not just modern tech, but future techs too (there's a laser gun that go through MC's Magic armor)

>> No.75302628

>>75298392
>... waaat?
To clarify, the MC of that series is a socially awkward gamer who plays a fantasy RPG called "Cross Reverie", which has a PVP function that allows him to act basically as a boss for other players to challenge, calling himself "Diablo, the Demon Lord". One day he gets summoned into the body of his character by the two girls next to him in the image, who try to bind him as a summon, but due to an event item he has the spell is reflected back at them, binding them to him. The MC is also incredibly socially awkward, and can only function anything close to normally in a social situation by basically roll-playing as his "Diablo" character. He's above-average in strength for the setting, but it's mainly because there's no revival abilities in the world like there were in the game, so people don't grind and focus on summons over elemental magic like Diablo uses instead of vice-versa like in the game in order to keep out of harms way, and there are a number of foes that actually give him a challenge throughout the series, though I won't go into details due to spoilers.

>Already done and the result was meh
Where was it done, and why was it meh?

>> No.75302657
File: 61 KB, 1425x434, 1551806327116.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75302657

>>75275400

>> No.75302738 [SPOILER] 
File: 673 KB, 1080x1551, 1602121197403.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75302738

>>75300921
Well yes, but where's the fun in telling people upfront about that?

>> No.75303699

>>75302738
>Well yes, but where's the fun in telling people upfront about that?
Point, spoilers and all. What happened next, BTW?

>> No.75303861
File: 137 KB, 650x933, c4b4fa66ef752b68116c643f3791c13a09.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75303861

Isekai into D&D with only 1 HP

>> No.75304978

>>75302628
Not him, but you've already listed an exmaple.

>>75303861
So just being stuck in the shit-tier retro clone?

>> No.75307913

>>75303861
>Isekai into D&D with only 1 HP
So, one hit and you’ll be dead?

>> No.75308386

>>75303699
MC survives but he's rocking a nice scar from that now

>> No.75308893

>>75307913
yes, like playing AD&D and rolled 1 on hit point.

>> No.75310945

>>75308386
Nice, what more can you tell us about the setting?

>> No.75312156
File: 1.35 MB, 2151x1600, A7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75312156

>>75310945
That's kind of a broad question and I'm not the best at explaining things but I'll give it the old college try.
https://mangadex.org/title/20234/shinju-no-nectar
A link to the series if you are interested.

The denizens of this world, I think it's called Naraka, used to be "the children of the Gods" until an unspecified conflict occurred and the Gods withdrew leaving behind sites of power, various relics, and so far 5 bloodlines wherein the substance called Ambrosia resides. Ambrosia is the magical titty milk of the series that grants the God Curse; turning the consumer into a berserker wielding whichever element the patron god had domain over. To actually be able to use this ambrosia, you have to be what's referred to as a Marebito, or a human offworlder, and humans do not naturally populate Naraka. The dominant races are otherwise Elves of varying complexions, Dwarves, a race of Oni in the japanese equivalent country, orcs, etc. The usual fantasy races but with an industrial twist as the elves aren't tree huggers, the Oni are japanese but live with a hierarchal society where status is dictated by rank, and the dwarves...well they are still dwarves just really tall but still the race of craftsman.

This puts any round eared human travelers in a bad spot because countries will either kill them on sight for fear of the humans connection to the gods, or exploit them because most travelers usually know something about technology that makes picking their brains worth the efforts. The latter option is favored by the empire of Dhala which serves as the major opposing force for the series. They are in the process of expanding their territories as well as capturing the relics of the old world to secure their power.

>> No.75312450

>>75312156
Some of the major countries include
- Albion: the country of totally not british elves. The Lemurian company is one of their main military forces and the commander is one of the first people to encounter the main character Kai after he's summoned to Naraka.

- Adaar: One of the most recent casualties of Dhala's expansion and a country left in ruins. The main heroine Sakura hails from here and conducted the summoning ritual to gain a guardian in the hopes of reclaiming her homeland. She also carries the ambrosia within her as well as being host to the only God we really interact with who acts as a sort of alternate personality. If you're familiar with Rosario x Vampire, it's kind of like inner Moka.

- Garadoa: The largest of the dwarven kingdoms and a fortress kingdom located to the north. It's worth noting that Dwarves in this setting are about as tall as the average japanese person and this angers me greatly.

- Dhala: The dark elf country and chief bad guys of the series. While they have a lot of military commanders Governor-general Bred Regan is one of their best men and upholds that reputation very well being one step ahead of everyone damn near all the time. He holds no love for the old Gods and seeks to stamp out any and every remnant of their power and influence.

- Yashimano: The japanese equivalent nation of Oni. Fiercely hierarchical in all aspects of life and just as xenophobic as their namesake. If you aren't one of them you're a 2nd class citizen which doesn't bode well for the Hasas, the descendants of the first group to settle in Yashimano and a cult that still worships the old gods and the old faiths.

- The Neraia Isles: A colony of Dhala and home to various races as well as the Nereid who are descendant from mermaids. The actual trait to gain a fishy lower half has been lost over generations unfortunately. They still retain the ability to remain underwater for extended periods of time which is exploited by Dhala.

>> No.75314496

>>75308893
>yes, like playing AD&D and rolled 1 on hit point
Why would the game even allow something like that? Who would play a character that can’t survive damage at all?

>> No.75314628

>>75286544
Oh, that sounds terrible. I just wanted some good Dwarven Story Telling, not Porn.

This is going in the Book

>> No.75314738

>>75314628
>good Dwarven Story Telling
That's an oxymoron

>> No.75314777

>>75298853
Simple understanding of germ theory and first aid could get you declared a saint by the church. Knowledge of selective breeding could lead to improved crop yield within a decade.

>> No.75314828

>>75314496
Well its how it works back in 2nd edition.
if you rolled on 1 on your HD then tough luck.

Then again a lv1 Mage used to have 4 health max anyway.
Its a balance on how absurdly OP mages are in high level.

>> No.75314847

>>75298853
Plenty of Isekai MC's cheat is knowledge.
From just modern knowledge to guide book level knowledge.

>> No.75315224

>>75314847
Every time an Isekai MC wows the locals by telling them about crop rotation. I die a little inside

>> No.75315247

>>75314496
Because surviving 1st level with the odds against you is fun in itself

>> No.75315597

>>75315224
Arguably plausible if you're going from a 2-field system to a 3-field system. The middle ages was when that technique was adopted.

However, Utawarerumono was impressive in that the MC introduced fertilizers which is a significant improvement for agriculture. Alas, Utawarerumono isn't isekai.

>> No.75315843

The Isekai as a genre of webnovels is essentially a shitty power fantasy, usually tied with some fantasy RPG game system.

>> No.75315922

>>75315597
It's not the logistics of crop rotation, it's just become an easy and lazy way for an author to have the main character innovate any given region without requiring them to have any deep or extensive knowledge. Especially in the kingdom builder stories that plague Isekai.

>> No.75316057

>>75275400
Everyone one of those tropes is why I hate Isekai.

I don't want a grim dark, everything is suffering story, and the transported figure is a loser who does nothing, but what I do want, someone who is actually, realistically competent is no where to be found.

>> No.75318716

>>75316057
>I don't want a grim dark, everything is suffering story, and the transported figure is a loser who does nothing, but what I do want, someone who is actually, realistically competent is no where to be found.
What qualifies someone as realistically competent in your book, exactly?

>> No.75319001

>>75316057
>>75315922
Try "How A Realist Saved the Kingdom". The protag is basically a socio-economics major put in charge of a large but struggling kingdom.

>> No.75319126

>>75312156
>the dwarves...well they are still dwarves just really tall but still the race of craftsman.
They’re closer to ancient Muslim or other middle eastern cultures in some aspects. Their women serve as spymasters and other intelligence work while the men are the typical dwarfs we see.

>> No.75319168

>>75295131
Berserk was mostly about Guts’ recovery and reclaiming his humanity.

>> No.75319950

>>75318716
>What qualifies someone as realistically competent in your book, exactly?
That their thought process and actions make sense in terms of actually being what an intelligent person would do, and that the challenges that they face are appropriately difficult and nobody is failing to meet them at the challenge by being incredibly stupid.
I personally love shit where it's actually a fairly simple plan, but executed well.

>> No.75320366

>>75319950
>I personally love shit where it's actually a fairly simple plan, but executed well.
Do you have any particular examples of this that you'd recommend?

>> No.75320881
File: 939 KB, 1988x3056, grief1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75320881

>>75275400
Probably the most baller scene I've seen so far is this one. The party's Paladin, who draws strength from grief, is informed that his father died in the real world while he was isekai'd.

>> No.75320955
File: 802 KB, 1988x3056, grief2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75320955

>>75320881
Obviously he loses his shit, and hard.

>> No.75320967
File: 709 KB, 1988x3056, grief3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75320967

>>75320955

>> No.75320979
File: 750 KB, 1988x3056, grief7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75320979

>>75320967
Skipping ahead to the last bit.

>> No.75320988
File: 842 KB, 1988x3056, grief8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75320988

>>75320979
And last one.

>> No.75321026

>>75320955
>>75320881
See, this is exactly the kind of shit I don't want.
> tumblr-tier art
> current year issues
> John Boyega as LANCELOT THE GREATEST KNIGHT
> Relentlessly dark and grim
Stuff like 'Oh, your dad died and you weren't there' is just depressing. It reeks of postmodern 'adult issues'.

>> No.75321053

>>75312156
As someone who has read this, I have to say that it's actually a richly detailed world. The weird part is that it's all a setup for tittysucking.

>> No.75321063

I think the only jap isekai i liked was Mushoku Tensei (the ln)
And the weird thing is, it's PAINFULLY generic if you just look at the themes present.

But it works because the MC isn't just a generic self-insert (though he's far from unique) and the author actually puts some basic effort into worldbuilding. Also no FUCKING levels.

>> No.75321068

>>75321026
You honestly expect high art from the isekai genre? If so you're more retarded than the people who actually enjoy this trash.

>> No.75321090

>>75321068
The thing is, the West is absolutely sucking the fun out of it. Look at the images above, everyone is a depressed adult. I don't read isekai for shit like that.

>> No.75321098

>>75278990
Frieren’s autism goes beyond autism
>spent ten years adventuring with some mortals
>hero leader (human) obviously likes me
>we beat the bad guy and i tell him I’m going off to read books for a while but I’ll be back to see him in 50 years for the next meteor shower
>gee he seems kind of bummed out, can’t imagine why
>I guess humans are just weird like that

>> No.75321102

>>75321063
Tensei has a lot of weird sex stuff, like the protagonist worshipping panties. That's just really gross.

>> No.75321113

>>75321102
That's a joke.
Doesn't bother me desu

>> No.75321127

>>75321098
I really like that the demons are all cold, sociopathic evil. They're a great example of an Evil race, the second I've seen.

>> No.75321133

>>75321026
To be honest, my dad dying of cancer or whatever would be one of the few things that would drive me berserk.

>> No.75321156

>>75321090
That's what happens when you want a genre to be "taken seriously". Enjoy your nip trash about sucking brown elf(dwarf) titties for breast milk super powers and stop bitching, the genre exists purely for self-indulgent trash.

>> No.75321161

>>75321090
What do you read isekai for, then? I might be just jaded, but a lot of that stuff reads like it was churned out by a machine algorithm. Grimgar, JK Haru and Overlord are exceptions, but Overlord is just wanking.

>> No.75321177

>>75320979
Wait, why is rage a HAMMER? Shouldn't it be an axe?

>> No.75321180

>>75321161
Overlord is shit.

>> No.75321186

>>75321180
I totally agree.

>>75320955
Christ, this looks joyless.

>> No.75321205

>>75319126
The women also don't have a dwarf's stature. The one we see is the size of a human girl, and has huge tits.

>> No.75321212

>>75314777
>Knowledge of selective breeding could lead to improved crop yield within a decade.
Sengoku Komachi no Kuro-tan is basically this, a history otaku high school girl from a farming family gets sent back and meets Oda Nobunaga and eventually becomes his secret superweapon by increasing agricultural production.
The depiction of Nobunaga is pretty entertaining, it does a good job of capturing the two faces of the man as a brutal warlord but also a progressive thinker.
there’s a scanlation as well as someone fan translating the original LNs

>> No.75321289

>>75312450
So far, sucking titties gives power in four flavors: Fire, lightning, water and ice.

>> No.75321306

>>75319001
There's nothing 'realist' about that setting.

>> No.75321318

>>75316057
> I don't want a grim dark, everything is suffering story, and the transported figure is a loser who does nothing, but what I do want, someone who is actually, realistically competent is no where to be found.
We basically never get that in recent entries, other than Re:Zero. I kind of want to see a setting where the protagonist actually loses on occasion.

>> No.75322902

>>75321161
Imagine time and again missing the memo that isekai exists as a light novel genre (essentially an airport novel for teens) and is done with the least possible effort, because people behind it are working on tight deadlines, while their actual audience (Japanese teens) is perfectly targeted by their products.
I mean shit man, it's like you were watching cape shit and demanding from it to be a super-serious, deep movie, rather than a guy in pajama punching things. Not that there aren't people that have this exact "demand", but they are fucking retarded.
Are you retarded too?

>> No.75322935

>>75322902
Of course he is, he's trying to discuss the narrative depths of fucking isekai.

>> No.75322938
File: 16 KB, 417x393, Peak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75322938

>>75314777
>Simple understanding of germ theory and first aid could get you declared a saint by the church
Assuming that (a) anyone listens and (b) there is a church.
Have you tried appertisation instead? Or pasteurisation, but that one is far tougher to achieve without proper equipment.
>Knowledge of selective breeding could lead to improved crop yield within a decade.
No. That could improve quality of livestock (assuming you would be given really big stock to play with), but unless you're a botanist specialising in seeds, good luck improving anything in other way than by picking most promising, randomly created specimen each harvest. Plus you need a pretty sophisticated workshop to improve seed quality

So... yeah, pic related.
Not to mention anyone taking isekai seriously is by default on that peak.

>> No.75323089

>>75320366
Le Carre's novels actually. People meme how complicated some of them are, but most of them are just simple plans that are being tackled blind.

>> No.75323214

Any of you ever think about writing one of these?

>> No.75323232
File: 13 KB, 411x174, isekai what is it.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75323232

>>75275400

>> No.75323245

>>75322938
Dunning-Kruger effect was disproved by later research.

>> No.75323271
File: 95 KB, 960x500, Watchmen.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75323271

>>75322902
>it's like you were watching cape shit and demanding from it to be a super-serious, deep movie

>> No.75323306

>>75320881
>party's Paladin is informed that his father died in the real world
Wait a second, how does nigger even knows who his father is?

>> No.75323351
File: 711 KB, 1075x1600, shinju-no-nectar-035-21.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75323351

>>75321289
Don't forget the wind titties.

>ice
I'm honestly baffled that Rubian, the goddess of fertility and harvests, has fucking ice powers. I was expecting the requisite earth spirit.

>> No.75323422

>>75323245
>t. idiot looking for ways to cope

>> No.75323457

>>75323271
... and guess what:
It's still a movie about guys in pajamas punching things. Takes to be Amerifat to consider it anything else
>b-but it's so dark and gloomy
Grimderping isn't the same as giving your work depth.

>> No.75323466

>>75323245
Let me guess:
American shits, being butthurt that acting smug and cock-sure is a sign of ignorance, decided to run "counter-research", done by some hacks with zero scientific value, but it "proved" that Dunning-Kruger is wrong, so morons can keep being moronic

>> No.75323506

>>75323422
>>75323466
The cope is real, lol.

>> No.75323519

>>75323466
>Studies of the Dunning–Kruger effect usually have been of North Americans, but studies of Japanese people suggest that cultural forces have a role in the occurrence of the effect. The study "Divergent Consequences of Success and Failure in Japan and North America: An Investigation of Self-improving Motivations and Malleable Selves" (2001) indicated that Japanese people tended to underestimate their abilities, and tended to see underachievement (failure) as an opportunity to improve their abilities at a given task, thereby increasing their value to the social group.

>> No.75323541

>>75323506
>N-no, I am not retarded
>Y-you just cope with my cope!

>>75323519
Colour me surprised

>> No.75323554

>>75323541
>zero arguments
Nice cope.

>> No.75323577

It's quite ironic how blindly bleating about the Dunning-Kruger effect is in and of itself a Dunning-Kruger. I haven't seen a single person regard it seriously who wasn't a blathering armchair psychologit.

>> No.75323589

>>75323554
You could simply post the research project that disproves the Dunning-Kruger effect instead of pretending we have to take you at your word. Would be a more secure argument than the word cope.

>> No.75323620

>>75323589
https://scholarcommons.usf.edu/numeracy/vol9/iss1/art4/

>> No.75323626

>>75323214
I've wanted to but genuinely lack all ability to world build.
Idea was to have the main character show up in another universe and find out his mentor was the villain all along. It's a twist that's been done before but there's something there to work with.

>> No.75323695

>>75323620
... have you bothered to read it?
Or just link to it, because you were given the link with another idiot, in group effort to pretend that no, you're not retarded?

>> No.75323727
File: 136 KB, 960x835, anecdotal evidence.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75323727

>>75323577
>I haven't seen a single person

>> No.75323765

>>75323541
>>75323554
>>75323577
>>75323589
>>75323620
>>75323695
>>75323727
This whole pointless debacle reminds me the old, but gold classic of Milgram experiment.
The main problem with Milgram was two-fold. First, the results were pretty disconcering for a whole lot of people that took it for granted that no, people can't be just easily controllable with authority and managed as such (which anthropology then spend decades on working on and only further reinforcing that this is an atavistic behaviour we will probably retain for next few dozens of thousands years). And second, it was very, very easy to flag it as "immoral", thus shifting the argument away from results and putting overemphasis on conduct. Conversely, the second part lead to ban on recreation of the experiment, so you can't exactly conduct new batch, at least not in the way how Milgram did it.
The final effect is that there are entire scientifc careers build on studying half-century old data to either disapprove it or support it... solely due to personal reason and system of belief. Not for any sort of scientific inquiry or analysis of crowd behaviour or authority, but because they seem personally offended by the original resutls OR by people disapproving the results.

>> No.75323811

>>75323727
Science is just collating a bunch of anecdotes into a stereotype, prove me wrong.

>> No.75323819

>>75275400
>Limiting powers
Isekai Smartphone only gives the hero knowledge, no skills. They are reliant on others with skill to execute.

Powers seem to be primarily combat abilities in a story that utilises combat significantly, or abilities that can be used in combat (eg, Slime). {erhaps the answer is changing the premise or the powers to _strictly_ non-combat.

>RPG stats and the logical consequences
Cautious Hero treats isekai as a game show for the gods, but characters besides the hero don't seem to be aware of their own stats.

I imagine it might be a bit like Heavy Object, where characters just check each other's stats before doing anything risky and then just avoiding combat if the stats don't favour them. Being able to hide your power level like Goku or Cautious Hero would be quite powerful.

>Harems and reverse harems
Reduce contrivance by having most of the girls clearly only interested in the hero's power. One or two can have romantic interest, but they should be the exception, and they should clearly not be the favourites.

>Dungeons and other killing fields
Throw an abandoned portal at the bottom for an origin story. In terms of utilising it in a story, Made in Abyss and DanMachi have an entire town's economy based around the dungeon. Abyss uses the dungeon for research rather than a killing field, so I think it's just about finding an economic use other than "hero fodder."

>What if SciFi Isekai?
The protag might not be the most knowledgeable guy around anymore. You could show off tactical thinking triumphing over far superior technology. You could have hero finding low tech ways to bypass hi tech stuff that only he would think of because while everyone's trying to hack the password with their high tech, hero just kidnaps the admin and threatens to whack him on the head.

>> No.75323835

>>75323765
Further going with this shit, there is the recurring theme of all those experiments and theories. Namely, when layman get tangled in, they can't grasp that theory can have applicability in "weak" version, while argument is usually against "strong" version. The Sapphire-Whorf effect and unrelated with it geographic determinism are probably the best example of it in action.
For layman, it's "all or nothing", so any kind of deviation from the most literal version of the theory means that the whole thing absolutely and completely is false, wrong and bad. Even if everyone that works in the material will tell you tha yes, your laguage shape how you think and yes, your environment influences hwo you behave and how countries operate and yada yada yada. The difference is HOW MUCH they influence, rather than IF they do.
For layman, the only question that is is IF, since by doing this, you can instantly and easily - befitting someone that's clueless - "prove" the entire argument is wrong.

tl;dr idiots gonna idiot, man

>> No.75323849
File: 160 KB, 568x1023, 121.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75323849

>>75323811
Here, done.

>> No.75323870

>>75323849
Not an argument.

>> No.75323951

>>75323870
Neither is your statement.
Dunno, they never taught you about eristics or something?

>> No.75324179

>>75323951
Still not an argument, sweaty.

>> No.75324324

>>75323819
>sekai Smartphone only gives the hero knowledge, no skills
He is also the most talented magician in the world or some shit.
>They are reliant on others with skill to execute.
Battle harem is a tiered cliche.
>Reduce contrivance by having most of the girls clearly only interested in the hero's power.
Chinks has a lot of not-harems where girls are purely admiring hero's prowess.
>ou could have hero finding low tech ways to bypass hi tech stuff
Demolition Man was fun.

>> No.75324527
File: 450 KB, 449x642, free shrugs.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75324527

>>75324179
Still don't need any, because you have none to begin with

>> No.75324775

>>75320988
...So what mechanical effects does dual-wielding the Angry Hammer and Sad Sword have, anyway? It's like holding two guns, you're not more effective with them.

>> No.75324851

>>75324775
It's a huge advantage, because the Emotion Knight uses his emotional state as fuel for his main power. Imagine being able to fire two nukes instead of one.

>> No.75324892

>>75320955
This panel layout is just bad and the writing for it is just bad. Like Jesus Christ.
The little bird comes in like Navi and fucking tells him his dad is dead, and he just poses like Michael Jackson?

>> No.75324899

>>75324892
I actually skipped a few pages, but you get the idea.

>> No.75324913

>>75324899
And it's not good.

>> No.75324993

>>75320988
Why is the Paladin a black guy?

>> No.75325030

>>75324993
Because [Current Year Issues] were added to [Muh Special Issues To Pander About], both multiplied by [Zero Subtelity]

>> No.75325080
File: 397 KB, 220x177, 1596143237769.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75325080

People who whine about isekai are inevitably anime-only faggotrons EOPs who can't deal with their flavour of the month garbage being little more than ads for cheap-to-license light novels.

>> No.75325868

>>75325080
Let's not forgot cheap to make. Isekai on principle are (the fucking irony) for the most part actionless, so less of tough shit to draw

>> No.75326196

>>75275400
I want an isekai set in the Third Reich.

>> No.75326265

>>75326196
As long as we get to rape the aryans, I’m okay with it.

>> No.75326304
File: 422 KB, 759x719, CD9A0765-E8B9-4623-8AEC-1CE0680E8CEC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75326304

>>75275400
This thread belongs to the Dwarves.

>> No.75326352

>>75326265
SS uniforms are sexy as all hell.

>> No.75326374

>>75326352
They’re great for being raped yes but we mustn’t forget to violate the general population. It’s hard work raping them in ways where they don’t consent but it’s what we must do.

>> No.75326498
File: 109 KB, 372x396, Dwarf warrior.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75326498

>>75326304
Yes

>> No.75328068
File: 577 KB, 1000x1450, x6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75328068

>>75326304
>>75326498
>master craftsman
>scientists and scholars
>amazing warriors
>not pussies like those fucking elves

>> No.75329212

>>75326265
>>75326374
Why are JIDFs so cr*nge?

>> No.75329766

>>75329212
>Why are JIDFs so cr*nge?
What exactly is so bad about them?

>> No.75329978

>>75326265
>>75326374
>>75329766
Go back to >>>/leftypol/ with the rest of your kind, bootlicker

>> No.75331059

>>75328068
I jerked off to Joan of Arc and Seras, and I think I have nothing else to say positive about this Drifters and Hellsing.

>> No.75332386

>>75321306
>There's nothing 'realist' about that setting.
What's not realistic about it, exactly?

>> No.75332632

>>75277696
Source?

>> No.75334678

>>75329212
>JIDFs
What's a JIDF?

>> No.75336305

I've been thinking about making 5 a man band team of OC from multiple anime series and putting them in Marvel Universe 616.

>> No.75336435

>>75336305
Isn't that just Re:Creators but with some gay consoomer capeshit thrown in?

>> No.75336481

>>75336435
I've actually never seen that anime.

>> No.75337463

>>75332632
Karate Survivor in another world.

>> No.75339284

>>75336481
>I've actually never seen that anime.
Me neither.

>> No.75340274

>>75336305
>I've been thinking about making 5 a man band team of OC from multiple anime series and putting them in Marvel Universe 616.
What is the goal, precisely?

>> No.75340652

>>75336481
Newsflash: Just because you don't know something or its content doesn't mean you aren't ripping it off.
In fact, one of the top reasons why iseaki churms up so much shit (and always did) is due to not even looking what the competition is doing, unless said competition ends up being VERY successful. So you end up with everyone doing the same things, but not copy-cating in the same time.

>> No.75341013

>>75340652
>In fact, one of the top reasons why iseaki churms up so much shit (and always did) is due to not even looking what the competition is doing
Hell, just look at this thread. People keep trying to come up with le ebin subversions to isekai and are coming up with things that have already been subverted so fucking much that they're a cliche in their right. Like the retards that think "knowledge" is a novel isekai cheat power.

>> No.75341058

>>75341013
That's why, you should just commit to having a multiple girl harem and an ultra powerful MC but try your best to write it as well as you are capable.
I'm being completely genuine in that sentiment. I think harem shit is garbage, because so much of it is just written so godawful.I know there is going to be some faulty writing to facilitate the harem stuff, but you can do things to make it better.

>> No.75341272

>>75341058
>but try your best to write it as well as you are capable
What fucking for? Do you even understand what a light novel is? It's deliberately and intentionally written in easy-to-digest form, with no complex words or even syntax, simply to make it more accessible and faster to read, as deep down, it's just a manga script.
You know, a LIGHT novel.

>> No.75341301

>>75341272
>What fucking for?
Because it'll be a better wish fulfillment product?

>> No.75342445

>>75341272
>You know, a LIGHT novel.
Different anon, and I know they are not directly comparable, but that's light asking why YA fiction or short stories shouldn't strive for some level of quality despite either being aimed at kids, or being very short in page count.

Not everybody would appreciate it, but I think everyone would benefit if writers weren't just trend chasing hacks who got lucky on some web novel platform and had their story picked up for a proper serialization; purely on the strength of them having slapped an isekai hook into their first chapter before devolving into their basic ass fantasy setting with some waifu's sprinkled in.

>> No.75343516

>>75329212
>>75329978
Degenerate anti-rapists begone.

>> No.75343675

>>75342445
This. A demographic or a medium is no excuse for making something shit. That's like asking why anyone would bother putting any effort into making a kid's show.

>> No.75343698
File: 1.70 MB, 1440x1080, 1602097366013.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75343698

>>75343675

>> No.75345251

>>75343675
>This. A demographic or a medium is no excuse for making something shit. That's like asking why anyone would bother putting any effort into making a kid's show.
Because people want to watch them? Is that a trick question?

>> No.75345888

>>75329978
I lick no boots but aryan pussy

>> No.75346643

>>75341301
I don't think you understand how this works.

>>75342445
>>75343675
My point isn't that they shouldn't be good. My point is they simply aren't good and there are viable reasons why. Meanwhile you are complaining that something that by default is produced as low-brow, low-effort, low-quality product is exactly that. I mean... it's like going to watch an awful sex comedy and then complain it wasn't an arthouse drama.
Also, yeah, your comparison with YA bullshit sucks, because it's a completely different genre and in a way, different medium even.

>> No.75347986

>>75346643
>Meanwhile you are complaining
I'm not complaining and outright stated that the comparison to YA novels was reaching. Calm yourself anon. I'm just explaining where people are coming from. The reality is every single medium is full of low effort content, even YA novels. You should peruse the library shelves sometimes and see the garbage that surrounds the decent stuff like Percy Jackson or Animorphs. And also keep in mind that shit like Twilight got super popular despite being literal fanfiction and terrible to boot.

But I still desire for every medium to have better standards. It's just vastly easier for content that primarily gets its start on web novel aggregate sites like Narou to be the kind of schlock that dictates the popular trends of Isekai.

>> No.75348073

>>75341272
>>deliberately and intentionally written in easy-to-digest form, with no complex words or even syntax

Not quite accurate. Remember that there are around 3000 kanji, of which less than a third are in common, everyday use. Light novels are simply novels written with only the kanji in common use, so that you can read them without consulting a dictionary every few pages. Thus, while it’s true that the writing is simplified for easier reading, it’s not the dumbing-down implied by your description.

This isn’t to say that there aren’t a whole lot of light novels that are formulaic, derivative, and dumbed-down, but that’s a function of Sturgeon’s Law and the conditions of the industry, not the format in itself.

>> No.75348673

Is the best Isekai ending I have ever seen.
The boobs have been edit.

>> No.75348687
File: 59 KB, 925x520, Thank you!.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75348687

>>75348673

>> No.75351704

>>75343698
What did she "actually" say in that scene?

>> No.75351762

>>75351704
Hell NO. But I just love to add in sexual conversation in text to children's cartoons.

>> No.75351779

>>75348073
>t. clueless about light novels or Japanese language
Not to mention you've managed to miss the actual point, focusing on unrelated bullshit

>> No.75352818

>>75351762
>Hell NO. But I just love to add in sexual conversation in text to children's cartoons.
I asked what she actually said, not if she said what was in the image.

>> No.75353425

>>75279634
you're confusing GotS and Timeline-191. GotS is a stand alone book.

Timeline 191 is the 11 book series and starts with How Few Remain, and is the scenario where the South wins because McLellan doesn't find Lee's leaked plans and the South wins Anteitam (no AK-47s or time traveling south africans), and eventually you have Confederate Hitler building concentration camps for blacks

>> No.75353512

>>75281122
There was the "War That Came Early" series (No appeasement, WWII starts early, Britain switches sides TWICE unbelievably) and "The Hot War" series (Korean War goes "hot" and atomic bombs start flying everywhere), and standalone "Joe Steele" (Stalin immigrates to America and becomes president instead of FDR) all from this decade

>> No.75353635

>>75291437
Actually Turtledove is known for a lot of the opposite, almost an elastic style history. For example, in Timeline 191 even though the early events play out very differently with a whole extra war in between the civil war/"war of secession" called the Second Mexican War, you still end up with a WW1 (with Roanoke taking the place of the Somme) and a WW2 complete with CSA versions of Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, etc.

>> No.75353650

>>75297075
So Overlord then?

>> No.75353661

>>75314496
This is how D&D worked under TSR and Gygax

>> No.75357330

>>75353661
>This is how D&D worked under TSR and Gyga
Why do it like that, doesn’t seem very fun.

>> No.75357890

>>75353512
He asked about notable.
I had to google each of the books you've mentioned. And it's my fucking job to review sci-fi books.
That's about how much irrevelant alt-his has become in the past decade. And that's a GOOD thing, because that subgenre is unbearable, while openly targetting incels with incel fantasies

>> No.75357914

>>75353635
So... exactly what was my point? That you end up with outlandish scenarios mired with real-world history, leading to massive pile of shit? The type of shit that's neither interesting for alt-history angle, nor real history, nor pure fantasy, because each of those angles is always dragged down by the remaining two

>>75353661
>t. OSR faggot who has no clue how things really were, but double downs on larping as an expert

>> No.75358610

>>75357330
>Why do it like that, doesn’t seem very fun.
It makes the game better by forcing players into behaviors they otherwise wouldn't.
If you have a character who will die in 1 hit, you'll be make damned sure you never put yourself in a position where you can be hit in the first place.

Contrast to 5e you don't ever have to question if fighting is a bad idea, because the entire system is designed to ensure you win and there's no real consequences for doing so.
>>75357914
NAYRT but yeah that's how it was intended to work, though house rules to curb down on lethality are common.

>> No.75358767
File: 266 KB, 720x1200, __original_drawn_by_weltol__5a11854e8d19e9fa2d46028b4106325f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75358767

>>75341301

It seems to me that exactly emphasis on wish fulfillment is what makes isekai different from more traditional portal fiction/fantasy. And that aspect usually includes one MC for a reader to associate himself. Which is a problem when we're trying to emulate genre in a group RPG. (Not a problem for duo play ofc)

So I was wondering. If you would run an typical isekai-inspired game for a group how would you go about power-tripping and overpowered haxes and about some form of harem when there are not one main characeter but a full party? Or let me even reiterate like this -- how do I provide this kind of high powered wish-fulfillment for a whole table not to one person?

>> No.75358837

>>75275400
Making one of these threads is OK. Making a new one just because the other one hit the bump limit is pure cancer, and just like that dude who spams his Amazon fetish thread.

>> No.75358853

>>75320955
I'm sorry this page is HILARIOUS.

>> No.75358859

>>75358610
How is any of this "better"? All it does is fostering a type of mentality that's absolutely anti-fun and super-cautious, so you end up with people poking a single room for 2 hours with a stick, being paranoid about everything. On top of that, it's usually married with the terrible GMing style of "unless you specify something in the tiniest detail, it never happend and you MUST be punished for this". Aka the very reason why nobody is doing this kind of shit for decades.
>inb4 hurr durr modern DnD bad and you are having fun wrong
Never played any adition after ADnD 2e. What's your next non-argument?

BOTH of those stances are retarded and based on extreme behaviours - one on control freak tendencies, the other on having no spine. And both missing the actual problem, which is having good game design, rather than ad hoc solutions to everything with zero though put into them

>> No.75358907

>>75358767
>Which is a problem when we're trying to emulate genre in a group RPG
Different anon, but I fail to see your point here.
Ever tried playing pulp? Or, you know, running an actual isekai campaign? It's not that hard, really.
My GM some time ago stole the idea from /tg/ to run an isekai for us. We had to draw pre-made characters from prepared pool and unlike the original source, it was all about obscenely powerful cheat powers. Then we run a shounen campaign with those. And it was tonnes of fun.

>> No.75358942
File: 162 KB, 828x623, Breeding the Isekai Protagonist.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75358942

>>75275400
We need more isekai where the isekai MC comes back to his/her home universe to catch up with old friends or fuck their lovers.

>> No.75358955

>>75358942
Souce?

>> No.75358983

>>75358859
>All it does is fostering a type of mentality that's absolutely anti-fun
Only if your definition of fun is a mindless hack and slash game.
>so you end up with people poking a single room for 2 hours with a stick
This it the fault of bad dms. You're a bad dm.
>On top of that, it's usually married with the terrible GMing style of "unless you specify something in the tiniest detail, it never happend and you MUST be punished for this"
Bad DM that is bad regardless of which edition you're playing. Not an argument. Just because modern editions are designed so that even this type of retardation can't kill your character doesn't make modern editions better.
> Aka the very reason why nobody is doing this kind of shit for decades.
Meanwhile the OSR is probably the largest rpg base in ttrpg after D&D and Paizo.
>Never played any adition after ADnD 2e.
Ironic, because AD&D 2e IS considered the beginning of the trash design that is modern D&D.

You're bad at D&D and problem solving so you try to change the rules so you're not handicapped by your low IQ.

>> No.75359122

>>75358983
I was talking about thinking in extremes and how bad it is.
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.75359166
File: 95 KB, 486x330, projecting.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75359166

>>75358983
>All this shit
Not that anon, Jesus fucking Christ, this is just embarrasing how both wrong and smug you are.
I'm gonna bet a fiver you don't even play games at all, given the number of really fucking weird assumptions you make not just about "your" favourite style, but the hobby in general.
Do you even know there are other games than D&D?
Or the fact there are entire genres that deal with something else than power/powerless wank?

>> No.75359237

>>75359122
You didn't have a point at all. You're just saying "1 HP bad" and I'm explaining why it doesn't matter if you're good at D&D.
>>75359166
We're talking about D&D retard, a system originally designed to play one specific kind of game.
I run OSE, where I've had players survive dangerous things because of smart thinking, and die because of dumb decisions.
As opposed to 5e, where I've had players survive dangerous things despite making dumb decisions. Still dying to other dumb decisions though.

I'm not commenting on other systems, I don't have much experience with stuff other than D&D.

>> No.75359283

>>75359237
Whatever, man, I have no stakes in your "HURRR SUPERIOR EXPERIENCE DURRR" tirade.
Play some games next time. Preferably bunch of different ones. You might be for a surprise.

>> No.75359344
File: 177 KB, 697x768, I think you need.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75359344

>>75358610
>>75358983
>>75359237
... and this is why nobody likes OSR.
Nothing wrong with the playstyle itself, it's the insufferable fanbase that actively puts everyone away from it.

>> No.75359347

>>75359283
>Whatever, man, I have no stakes in your "HURRR SUPERIOR EXPERIENCE DURRR" tirade.
No shit, you're the equivalent of a brainlet who watches the MCU and gets offended when told how pedestrian your tastes are.

>> No.75359408

>>75359344
People don't like OSR because they have a lot of assumptions on what the playstyle is like and because people generally prefer mindless power fantasy instead of power fantasy.

>> No.75359425
File: 564 KB, 800x430, gaze into my teeth.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75359425

>>75359347
The irony of this statement is fucking lethal

>>75359408
No, anon. It's just the scrubs like you who ruin it for everyone.

>> No.75359456
File: 47 KB, 348x407, Smug Argo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75359456

>>75358955
>he doesn't know

>> No.75359491

>>75359425
>It's just the scrubs like you who ruin it for everyone.
Only thing I've said is "1HP isn't the end of the world" and "5e is for brainlet normalfags". The latter of which isn't even controversial on /tg/.
Not seeing how I'm ruining anything for anyone other than you seething you got called out on you using D&D to enact your shameful zero-effort power fantasies.

>> No.75359507

Isekai done with a bit of effort can be a fun romp, but what I've really come to hate is the shift depicting the fantasy settings they get sucked into as being either MMOs or some sort of JRPG knockoff, unabashedly using tropes from those sorts of games, instead of transporting the character to a fantasy setting proper. Like "Oh yeah there's this tower full of monsters in the middle of the city and our entire economy is based on going in to kill them" are you fucking kidding me?

Just as an example, Escaflowne was a fucking fantastic watch, though I've not gone back to it to see how well it stands the test of time for many years now. That show was very much an isekai show and while it did have the transported character romantically torn between two characters, it wasn't pandering so much as to be viewed exclusively by one gender. You had your giant robot fights counterbalanced by scenes of girl internal monologuing about how hot boi smells like a field.

>> No.75359511
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75359511

>>75359491
And the only thing I'm pointing out you are a spastic faggot that doubles down with each post on making sure to present OSR playerbase in the worst imaginable light with your behaviour. Seems that the irony of this situation completely missed you.

>> No.75359542
File: 352 KB, 490x333, Shirou projection.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75359542

>>75359166
This is how I projection.

>> No.75359561

>>75359511
Quote where I've been a spastic faggot.
You're literally just been saying "You are silly" over and over without saying anything of substance while having a false sense of superiority.

>> No.75359621
File: 87 KB, 404x404, -__-.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75359621

>>75359507
>settings they get sucked into as being either MMOs or some sort of JRPG knockoff
Sup, anime friend.
>unabashedly using tropes from those sorts of games
Nothing wrong with that
>instead of transporting the character to a fantasy setting proper
Which would make no fucking difference in the grand scale of things, as seen by isekai that do exactly that and they have the exact same outcome than the ones openly using game-like mechanics. That without mentioning the settings that ARE within games, but don't use game rules and the whole "stuck in a game world" is just an excuse (which is particularly omnipresent in the "otome villain(ess)" subgenre)
>Like "Oh yeah there's this tower full of monsters in the middle of the city and our entire economy is based on going in to kill them" are you fucking kidding me?
Again, nothing wrong with that. And you can have it both with and without gameplay mechanics. I mean... pic related?

In other words, you are venting at things that aren't even a problem in the first place, due to some misplaced "b-but this is not how it would be!" undertones. How do you know how it would be in a fucking fantasy world that follows, oftentimes consciously and deliberately, this or that convention? It's like bitching that male characters in Harlequin novels are buff hunks in the late 80s style of buff hunk.

>> No.75359837

Even for 4chan, this thread is too negative. What are some examples of good/well written isekai? What would you like to see more of in the genre?

>> No.75359902

>>75275400
For me it's wasted potential these days. Back then in an age when the likes of El Hazard, Rayearth, Wataru, Escaflowne or Dunbine aired, the whole going to another world at least had a point A to point B thing and it was more organic. Now a crushing majority are regurgitated D&D and video RPG stuff thrown in and used in-universe unironically. Normally it could've been used to present something genuinely interesting or see the ramifications of what happens if you put in modern or future stuff in a fantasy setting or if you introduce fantasy stuff into a modern or future setting. BUT NOPE.

>> No.75360481

>>75359837
We had entire listing done in the previous thread, you are welcomed to check it.

>> No.75360522

>>75359902
I know the pain, mate
I also find it the peak irony the only isekai that actively avoids that stuff is otome. So you know, EVERYTHING is following video game logic, but since the "game" in question is visual novel, it's a fucking marketing gimmick in tune of "Look how much game we have in our product!" rather than "The whole thing runs on game rules".
Because it doesn't and it's fun in most cases, too, even if still swarming with cliches

>> No.75360548
File: 3.36 MB, 2852x2048, The Ride-on King.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75360548

>>75359837
I think it's because "Isekai" as it's currently popularized is based on early 2000's stories, particularly the VRMMO style of fantasy, more than it is off even isekai stories from the 90s. Some of the fans of this concept that I've engaged with won't even consider series like Escaflowne, Rayearth, or even Digimon as Isekai purely because those series don't incorporate the more popular tropes from recent years. That's before addressing the quality of writers, power of marketing, the desires of the consumers helping to dictate trends, etc.

>>75359837
I've sucked it off a lot, but Shinju no Nectar is absolutely one of the better recent ones to come out.

The Ride on King: Fictional !Putin who is already a badass capable of judo flipping trucks gets sent to another world. There he strives to mount every single fantasy creature he can find, he also winds up starting his own country but that's less important. It has not only good action and comedy, but a good side cast of characters. It also does the MC having amazing powers very well.

Isekai Izakaya "Nobu": It's just a chill story about a modern day japanese restaurant that exists in a medieval fantasy setting. Mostly food porn but still good. The different patrons have their own individual plots but all commune over their love of this foreign food.

The Wrong Way to Use Healing Magic: 3 high school students are summoned to another world as heroes. Unfortunately the MC was one of them and got pulled by accident as the other 2 were the intended targets. MC finds out he has an affinity for healing magic and gets conscripted by the resident combat medic who teaches him the right way to use healing magic. Infinite stamina and maximum strength.

>> No.75360602

>>75360548
>I think it's because "Isekai" as it's currently popularized is based on early 2000's stories, particularly the VRMMO style of fantasy, more than it is off even isekai stories from the 90s. Some of the fans of this concept that I've engaged with won't even consider series like Escaflowne, Rayearth, or even Digimon as Isekai purely because those series don't incorporate the more popular tropes from recent years.
This is my problem with isekai too - 2010s VRMMO stuff is dull as anything. I'd love a well written series that followed in the footsteps of Escaflowne and Rayearth, but they're almost impossible to find: there's just so much trash on places like RR that the good stuff gets swamped.

>> No.75360779
File: 318 KB, 1125x1600, The Wolf Won't Sleep.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75360779

>>75360548

The Wolf doesn't sleep: The manga for this got the axe but not because of it's quality. This is an interesting take on isekai stories as the MC is from a fantasy world already, but delves into a dungeon and gets teleported to another one that has different rules for magic and such. It presents a setting where the world operates slightly on video game logic but in a more diegetic way. And while mostly stoic, the MC is compelling because he's this griszled adventurer but really bonds with the family that takes him in after he arrives there. Becoming a body guard for them for a couple years before he finally starts his own adventure later down the line. He just connects to people in an endearing way and this continues down the line. The web novel is still going so the story isn't kill, but I liked the manga art as well.

Final Girl: It's a one shot from a year back but some guy gets pulled into a world based on horror movies. He's also shoved into the body of the resident slut so he works his hardest to avoid every death flag and survive the movie. I like the premise.

Isekai Death Cheat: An entire classroom gets sent to another world? Most of the class are edgelords and the gods are also assholes? Looks like it's going to be another generic shitty series. Except the MC rejected the power of the Gods and already had his own bullshit power from the onset. The ability to kill anyone or anything just by thinking it and the ability to know if someone holds hostility towards him. It's honestly funny as hell.

Middle-Aged Man's Noble Daughter Reincarnation: One of a couple Villainess stories I follow, an old salaryman gets hit by a car and his consciousness gets sent to a visual novel his daughter was playing. Only he's stuck in the body of the main villain of the story who is supposed to get a bad end. Despite his absolute best attempts at being a bad guy, he only manages to endear himself to pretty much everyone.

>> No.75360820

>>75360602
>I'd love a well written series
>Rayearth
Confirmed for never watching it, just parroting the name.
For the most part, Rayearth is a fucking lolsrandom comedy, not much different from Slayers. So either you've got Coke-bottle thick nostalgia glasses on, or you never saw any of it.
It's like people pretending nowdays that InuYasha was some sort of epic drama with great character arc and anyone who actually saw even a single episode of it has no fucking clue what the fuck they are even talking about.

>> No.75361018

>>75360779
>>75359837
Gonna shortform the rest of the immediate list I thought up.
- Handyman Saitou in Another World
- Drifters
- The world of moral reversal
- Karate Baka Isekai
- Curse Blood RIP

>What would you like to see more of in the genre?
I want more stories where the MC wants to go back home. It seems so novel in this current climate of isekai to get a story like that. Most main characters I see either are misanthropes or recluses living on the fringes, so getting hit by a truck and a harem was the best thing that happened to them. Others just jump head first into adventure without a 2nd thought or backwards glance. It used to be more common that getting home was a main goal, or just the logical end of a story.

I'd also like to see Isekai that do a sci-fi setting. Technically time-slip stories fit the bill given the function much in similar ways. Stories like 'Now and Then, Here and Now' or 'Drifting Classroom' somewhat fit the bill, but I'd like to see something like Stargate. And no, that Gate isn't even close to adequate. Hell, I think we're long overdue for a Slider's-type story as well.

>> No.75361095

>>75361018
>I want more stories where the MC wants to go back home. It seems so novel
Overdone even more than "MC died under a truck".
It's literally all what this genre was for lion share of its existence: the quest to go back.

Like so many people already stated itt (and previous few), there is NOTHING that wasn't done already in isekai. And when it's done by someone, it;s instantly copied by 10 different titles.

>> No.75361157

>>75361095
>Overdone even more than "MC died under a truck".
Not in the current era of popularized isekai. So why not let the pendulum swing back the other way?

>there is NOTHING that wasn't done already in isekai
nobody is refuting this but what do (you) want out of Isekai? Yes yes everything has been done before and nothing is original, but what kinds of stories would you like to see with a fresh author behind it?

>> No.75361279
File: 84 KB, 640x320, Netflix remake when.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75361279

>>75361157
>Not in the current era of popularized isekai.
Says who?
Here is the deal: if you don't have to rely on translations, you aren't bound into a tunnel vision created by them. This allows you to in turn not to think that "shit with wide access to it = all that is"
>but what do (you) want out of Isekai
You mean on /tg/ level or as a genre itself?
For /tg/ purposes, it's one of the most handy ways to play BESM with people. Or the whole hobby in general. Pic related is literally how I got into TTRPGs, despite never playing DnD itself my entire life. It's just a very handy plot device.
As a genre itself, I couldn't care fucking less what's the flavour of the year in it, because why should I care in the first place?

>> No.75361474

>>75360522
At least there is something like Her Majesty's Swarm or Mynoghra. Both set in video game settings, but avoid the whole video game mechanics (in case of the latter, only MC and his right hand are aware of them).

>> No.75361506
File: 189 KB, 300x200, missing.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75361506

>>75361474

>> No.75361528

>>75361279
>Says who?
The popular trends and a number of aggregate sites? Please don't tell me there isn't enough information to paint a picture of what's dominant in Isekai even from a westerner's perspective? I mean, if you want to refute me just show me how it's a wrong statement to say that most isekai out right now are not about getting back home? I didn't even think that was a contentious observation to have.

>because why should I care in the first place?
I mean, you read stories for fun right? You have to have some kind of inclination or expectations for this kind of premise, right? Or did you show up in a thread for a genre or trope you don't like just to tell everyone is rote and heavily commercialized.

>> No.75361687

>>75361528
Which part of "there are other things than those you know due to limited number of translations of the most popular things currently running" you didn't understand the first time?
And yeah, as shocking as it seems to be for you, if you are planning to get any sort of "picture" out of what's going on, while only relying on translations, good luck with not just isekai, but literally ANYTHING that isn't widely accessible in your native language, news outlets included.

>you read stories for fun right?
I'm Polish. One of the cornerstones, if not the main one, of Polish education system is teaching people utilitarian approach. In practical terms it means that when people read something, it isn't trash, because they spend 13 years being taught the value of their time, how to recognise quality of a work in question and why it's pointless to spend time on clearly low-brow shit that's machine-written, nor to have high expectations from products like that. In other words: nobody (in Poland) reads isekai for their plots or with expecting from them to be some sort of seminal work or something mind-bending, but with full acceptance that it is trash and intentionally written as trash, too.

I'm in this thread to point to people like you that they have both wrong expectations from the genre AND are operating under heavy filter of translations they've got access to (how many light novels you actually saw published - published, not fan-translated - in your native?). Plus continuing a game-related conversation from previous thread, too.
Tell me something: when you are watching a dumb romper, you know, a blockbuster action flick, do you come to it with expectations of some sort of high art? Or you come there to see flashing images, hear cheesy one-liners and generally enjoy yourself? Or it doesn't appeal to you in any way, but for whatever reason you keep torturing yourself with it?

>> No.75361965

>>75360820
I never said Rayearth was well written, I said I'd love a well written series that was like it and Escaflowne.

By which I mostly meant a fantasy setting rather than MMO-inspired, though getting rid of other popular isekai tropes would be good as well; no blank slate male-MC with a harem for a start.

>> No.75362009

>>75361157
>nobody is refuting this but what do (you) want out of Isekai?
Honestly now, I just want something that isn't trash. Trash is fun, and a fun way to explore novelty, but once the novelty is gone the next step is an evolution of quality - try new things, then refine them.

So now I just want to read an isekai with good characters and prose.

>> No.75362093

>>75361965
>I never said Rayearth was well written
>I said I'd love a well written series that was like it
So you want well written series that's badly written? You see where this is heading?
For the rest of your post, consult the based Polack right above you

>> No.75362308

>>75362093
Not sure if ESL, trolling or just dumb, but please work on your reading comprehension before posting.

>> No.75362547

>>75361687
>there are other things than those you know due to limited number of translations of the most popular things currently running" you didn't understand the first time?
What part of "I'm not relying solely on available english translations" did you not understand? You can check the front page of Narou and other web novel sites in their native language, check ratings and such, read summaries of plots through machine translations and my middling understanding of moon, check the annual anime releases if you want to examine a vastly smaller pool of stories in a medium, etc. There are other ways to gauge what trends are going on even if I still won't have the complete picture since I lack a deep understanding of the japanese language. And again, if you're going to bring up trend chasing as a problem of this genre specifically, you have to be aware that these trends aren't exactly secret to find out. Otherwise, how do you know what 10 series are derived from or even have a vague idea this is happening?

>nobody (in Poland) reads isekai for their plots
That's sad it's not like all isekai are shit even if they aren't Shakespeare either.

>I'm in this thread to point to people like you that they have both wrong expectations from the genre
What is the wrong expectation I have for this genre? Honest question because I never stated I had an expectation for Isekai as a whole. I have a preference for plot structure sure, but just look at the list of series I've recommended and note that they still run the spectrum. I think you're projecting quite a bit here.

>when you are watching a dumb romper
That's very situational because it's going to be different depending on what kind of "dumb romper" we're talking about. If it's got a good action star I like the fight choreography. If it's more comedic the jokes should be funny. And I don't have to have expectations of something being high art either. I don't know why you think I should either but maybe it's a polish thing.

>> No.75363616
File: 120 KB, 601x1199, tanya 2pure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75363616

The isekai I favor most are Kumo and Tanya. It might be because the ruling forces of the multiverse are generally aligned against the protags. I like the idea of the people in charge on that grand a scale focusing on something so small, and that something resisting them. I'd probably use that in a campaign. After those, probably Karate Baka and Slime and Not!Putin. Really opposite ends of the spectrum, but possibly I like them because they touch more on the political aspects.
Slave Harem Labyrinth mite b cool. So far it's taking it easy with the pace, and the MC actually dicking his hot girls is refreshing.

>> No.75364840

>>75362547
And my point regarding translation is about reading the actual content and thus access to it. My Japanese is fucking horrible (and I hate the fact I managed to learn fluent French within a year, but can't speak good enough Japanese after a decade of intense learning), but it's still more than enough to go through light novels (perfect language practice when it comes to understanding). That still is a limiting factor, since I'm one guy going through literal fuckload of this stuff and still applying selection to it and time constrains. But I'd still bet a fiver I read through more light novels last month than you did ever. Not as some smug readership statement, but simple filter of accessability - as you stated yourself, you mostly end up checking tags and machine-translating summaries. Does it translates to actual content? Not really.
I mean shit, let's even skip isekai entirely. Can you name me a single Polish book that isn't witcher-related or written by Stanisław Lem (or even one those)? This is my point about accessability and translation being the biggest filter and thus the lense of how foreign language media is percieved if you don't know that particular language yourself.

>What is the wrong expectation I have for this genre?
The "I want the cliche of 'we need to get back home' that even Japanese writers realised is so over-used to make some sort of triumphant return, despite the actual target audience, the Japanese teens being sick and tired of it and demanding endless fantasy escapism instead" expectation

>dumb romper
And you still managed to prove my (unspoken) point - namely, that you do adjust expectations, depending on not just the genre, but specific niche of it. It's not about "high-low art" bullshit. It's about adjusting. Hence why I brough up earlier utilitarian approach and that's how it is different from your classic "snobism".
>1/2

>> No.75364853

>>75360522
GATE was closest to making something that could've been fun in a modern vs fantasy story, but it's Japan-wank most of the time. Seriously...

>> No.75364858

>>75362547
>2/2
So, if you can differentiate in action movies and adjust to their content, finish and general structure within separate niches, apply the same stance to isekai and you are golden. The only problems with this are of course ability to filter in the first place to the things you want to see AND then clash with reality of what is accessible.
This way we are closing the circle of your expectations and desire of specific content vs. what is translated and thus accessible without further problems.
Am I making this circle clear enough? Honest question.

>> No.75364913

>>75364853
Not that anon, but if you want GATE premise, but done "right", go for Cop Craft. It's nothing special and the anime is SUPER cheap, but you will definitely like it for the resulting not-exactly-urban-fantasy-but-still-close.
Just be mindful to the fact it's a cheaply made anime adaptation of a light novel. Bonus points for being only adapted due to ability to cash in on isekai popularity, despite NOT being isekai.

>> No.75365228
File: 676 KB, 950x1346, curse blood.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75365228

>>75364840
>This is my point about accessability
Ok? It has nothing to do wtih actually proving whether or not the statement: "Many modern isekai have pushed away from a main character's goal being a return trip home". This would be evident by the sheer dominance of Reincarnation as a transportation method. Do you disagree that it's arguably the most common trope in modern isekai? There are outliers of course, you could have a temporary arrangement or near death, Parallel Paradise is an example of this as the MC is technically speaking in a coma while his mind occupies the other world. But from my own observations and readings that's still rare.

>that even Japanese writers realised is so over-used
This isn't an expectation unless they changed the definition. I don't want a triumphant return either. There are still stories being made with this premise attached to it, I've listed a couple and I could list more modern series that do it. I said I wanted more stories with that idea in mind. All your arguments about this idea have been based on it being rote and japanese readers being tired of it. Sure. the popular series favor the MC completely embracing a new life with no regard for going back home. That's probably why Reincarnation is largely more popular btw, it's the easiest way to completely sever the MC from earth by killing him off from it. Do you disagree with this observation of a popular trend?

>that you do adjust expectations
What does this prove? I still read Isekai and actually enjoy even the schlockier ones depending on the story. Did you honestly think I was a Snob when I recommend stuff like Karate Baka and Drifters? Would you still think that if I told you I also enjoy Game of Familia? Gate?

What is it with the massive amount of projection in your posts here?

>Am I making this circle clear enough?
it was never a problem because I never stated any expectations nor had problems adjusting them.

>> No.75365269

>>75365228
>What is it with the massive amount of projection in your posts here?
I think the real problem is language barrier. What I taken from granted from your original two posts wasn't really there as it turns out and the rest just kind of unfolded from there.

>> No.75365278

>>75364853
Outbreak Company is the same premise except Japan goes the diplomatic route instead of the military one, and are portrayed as greedy bastards trying to destabilise the fantasy world and force it into becoming a vassal state. The main plot is basically an otaku version of "The King and I", alternating between very serious and very goofy topics.

>> No.75365427

>>75365228
Man, RIP Kajiyama.

>> No.75365574

>>75364913
Watched it. Kinda didn't catch me.
Honestly? Once I did on a "We Discuss Fictional Anime" thread on /a/ this one story. The premise was simple. A fleet of colonists from a cyberpunk Earth try to leave the system through a warp gate that was to shoot them away to the farthest system in the galaxy that could support life. The colonists come from various factions who were sick and tired of constant wars and corporate influences, but aforementioned factions didn't like that they were leaving so they sent out a force to stop them. They fail, but not before damaging the gate. Something somewhere goes wrong and the colonists are flung with their fleet into a different reality, as they later discover. One with multiple worlds connected to each other through a web of portals. The various civilizations constantly war with each other, either to conquer or defend their worlds. The colonists land on the nearest one, the one that is closest in climate to Earth before it became a nightmarish place. MC and co are PSI-OPS who went rogue along with their commander and joined the folks. At first they do stuff like scouting for resources and potential threats, yet as the story moves on they eventually make contact with the natives, even befriend them and aid them in their problems.

The main premise of it is that both sides of the spectrum, the sci-fi/cyberpunk and fantasy ones, are both to each other out-of-context problems. For the natives, MC and the colonists use tech and powers unknown to them like psychic powers, cyborgs, mutants, mecha and more which freaks them out one way or another. For the P.O.V. of the other side, the natives, albeit more primitive than them, have capabilities that do not apply to logic or traditional science. While they can slaughter armies of knights with ease, certain monsters, supernatural and magical stuff actually screws with them a lot as they don't know initially how to handle it.

That's my idea. Sadly will never see such a premise.

>> No.75365591

>>75365278
Yeah, but still it didn't make me invested into it.

>>75365228
>>75365427
>Axed by the Grim Reaper himself
I hate author deaths and I was genuinely hyped for this.

>> No.75365688

>>75365269
>What I taken from granted from your original two posts wasn't really there as it turns out and the rest just kind of unfolded from there.
I see, that's understandable.

>>75365427
Yeah, he was a great artist and it was a shame he left behind an unfinished work. When I say just the first volume filled me with hope for a 10/10 story I'm sure you understand.

>> No.75367800

>>75365591
>I hate author deaths
Yeah, any sufficiently skilled author should be made immortal.

Seriously though, who else here was saddened when Pratchett died?

>> No.75369658

>>75365688
>Yeah, he was a great artist and it was a shame he left behind an unfinished work. When I say just the first volume filled me with hope for a 10/10 story I'm sure you understand.
Is there any hope of someone else continuing his work?

>> No.75370336
File: 296 KB, 679x960, 09_06_2015_3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75370336

>>75369658
It's been 2 years. It's dead. His fantasy art though is nothing short of amazing.

>> No.75371144

>>75323457

>Looks at the Killing Joke/Injustice/Nick Spencer's Run with Marvel

Better than what Isekai looks like these days.

>>75320881

Sauce? Been looking for some variety in Isekai

>> No.75371259

>>75323271
The fact that you think Watchmen was super serious and deep means that you didn't get Watchmen. The core aesop at the center of the story is that capeshit is utterly retarded if you take it at face value.

>> No.75372835
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75372835

>>75371144
>No! Capeshit is important and very serious! Stop treating it like some sort of mindless popcorn chompers!
Like I've said, takes Amerfat for this angle

>> No.75375552

>>75370336
>It's been 2 years. It's dead. His fantasy art though is nothing short of amazing.
No kidding, do you have any more, please?

>> No.75376193 [DELETED] 
File: 1.33 MB, 1369x1536, 03C7F20D-F133-4BE9-A4B1-7C608C98FC2C.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75376193

>>75275400
Isekai protagonists are for hugging!

>> No.75376511

>>75329212
>>75329978
Back to r*ddit with you. Freedom is coming and it’s cumming in you.

>> No.75376886

>>75372835

Cape shit is allowed to have insightful/serious takes and comic book writers are doing just that along with regular stuff. Isekai seems to be in the rutt of catering solely to basic impulses

>>75359456

Really I don't.

>> No.75376926
File: 315 KB, 1388x1024, 09_14_2016.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75376926

>>75375552
I scraped his twitter so yeah
https://nitter.net/KAJIYAMA_

he also has a number of doujins on sadpanda under his name.

>> No.75376983
File: 1.63 MB, 953x1200, 10_05_2015_2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
75376983

>>75376926
Bear in mind he also did creature design for Golden Sun and a couple other game franchises. As well as character design for some spinoffs of Shining Force and Dragon Master Silk.

>> No.75377584

>>75376983
I miss Golden Sun. Great GBA series.

>> No.75378493

>>75275400
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Stranded_in_fantasy

>> No.75378686

>>75275400
Most Isekai have potential but waste it on the worst kind of edge, waifus, wanking and shit writing
Most do deconstructions but yeah they don't last well
Arifureta? Yeah that's the bad kind

Overlord? The evil races as MC with most being genuinely evil? That's new, that's good, that's fun.
Imagine if the PCs were NPCs and sent on special mission, here you got your TG game

>> No.75379012

>>75376886
Not sure if this is bait or genuine believe and not sure which of those options is more disgusting, too.

>> No.75379501

>>75276114
And this got zero replies. Of course.

>> No.75379596

>>75379501
>And this got zero replies. Of course.
Well, I'm thinking about making a new thread soon, so you can repost it there.

>> No.75379691

>>75378686
>Overlord? The evil races as MC with most being genuinely evil? That's new, that's good, that's fun.
I actually had an idea similar to that, where someone gets isekai'd into the body of an evil overlord post-conquest, possibly sharing a body, and has to deal with the moral issues of keeping things from being too bad for the conquered while keeping the army of demons and monsters pacified. Thoughts?

>> No.75380236

>>75376511
Cry more, bunkerchan.

>> No.75380476

>>75379501
I honestly missed that post, sorry.

>> No.75380531

>>75379501
>>75380476
I'd argue that it depends on what angle you want to play and what's the goal of the campaign. Using isekai as just, well, a setting, and not doing anything else with it, begs to question why don't just play it straight, without having PC(s) transported from a different world. You know, a regular, non-isekai game of BESM for example, if you want to keep anime stuff.
On the flip-side, isekai when used as basis for games has the unfortunate problem of openly encouraging meta behaviour. And this is a mixed bag. If your group is half-decent, nothing wrong with that. If it's made of retards or at least a single munchkin/powergamer is present, everything goes to shit.

>> No.75380799

>>75380531
Isekai isn't really a setting, at least not technically. It's more like a prompt. You could isekai into anything, doesn't matter what kinds of fantasy lands or sci-fi world. What makes isekai is the background of the main character.

>> No.75380920

Well, since this topic is so popular, I'll be making a new thread once we reach page ten.

>> No.75381831

>>75275400
New thread!
>>75381808
>>75381808

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