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74974592 No.74974592 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>> No.74974629

>>74974497
>>and every single reprint is comes pre-damaged with a the hideous planeswalker symbol in the corner, which is one of the ugliest pieces of graphic design ever
I bet you reeee'd at white borders too.

>> No.74974631
File: 234 KB, 600x750, 77338121_p0 Nahiri-chan smugs in your general direction.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74974631

>>74974592
oh, come on now, we can have a way better thread than this. here, i'll help you out:

CONSTRUCTED RESOURCES:
>Current metas, complete with deck lists
https://www.mtgtop8.com/
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/
>Build and share decks
https://deckstats.net/
http://tappedout.net/

CUBE RESOURCES
>Build and share cubes
https://www.cubetutor.com/
https://cubecobra.com/landing

CARD RESOURCES
>Search engines
https://gatherer.wizards.com/
https://scryfall.com/
https://mtg.wtf/

HOPE RESOURCES
>friendly, daily and threadly reminder that wotc is de facto printing an illegal cryptocurrency where prices are kept artificially inflated due to artificial scarcity and insider trading that gets distributed through lottery tickets and lootboxes and that they spend, all costs included, 2 cents per card to print them
>Reminder that all it would take to make this game enjoyable again is efficient reprints, abolishment of the reserved list, and tighter R&D design philosophy that throws F.I.R.E. to the side and allows for careful, fair and fun sets.

Thread Question: How are you holding up? How's your LGS? How did your Zendikar Rising prerelease go?

>> No.74974640

this is the thread we deserve

>> No.74974673

>>74974631
>How did your Zendikar Rising prerelease go?
>prerelease in 2020
my stores are all either closed down permanently or all in-store play has been suspended till 2021.

>> No.74974703
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74974703

I want to build a super budget and simple set-focused Cube. Which pre-Modern set would be the best for such in terms of prices and set design?
I want to go 360-cards build - 2 copies of each common (264), 1 copy of each uncommon (72) and one copy of each rare (24).

>> No.74974712

>>74974673
most stores still sell prerelease packs so you could do a prerelease at home. or just do some draft/sealed online with Magic: Arena™! Or MTGO. or even Xmage/Cockatrice/Tabletop Sim, if you're really anti-semitic.

>> No.74974715

>>74974592
I hate whats become of magic so fucking much

>> No.74974741

I hear you have to register for all events with some phone app and I refuse to use an app made by WotC

>> No.74974757

>>74974592
What am I lookin at here? Someone made a box out of old lands?

>> No.74974774
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74974774

>>74974629

nobody hated white border cards because of the white borders. white border printings suck because they are bad printings. Go compare a minty beta dual to a revised dual. revised was a dogshit printing.

>> No.74974814

>>74974774
>no collector number
>no rarity symbol
>no date
>no security sticker
>Hard as fuck to read font.
Get the fuck out with your fakes, anon. No one is buying your shit.

>> No.74974819

>>74974774
it's amazing how those colors pop out when you're used to revised's washed out colors.

>> No.74974831
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74974831

>>74974631
>How are you holding up?
In terms of hobby it's great. Corona made my build my first Cube and it's the most fun MtG experience I had since jumping into Pauper a few years ago. Limited is the ultimate way of enjoying Majik for me now. Still playing Pauper on MTGO to master my favourite decks tho.
>How's your LGS?
Have no idea. Corona made me finally pull my shit together and move abroad ~1000km away to make real money for once.
>How did your Zendikar Rising prerelease go?
Can't care less about new MtG shit. Pretty much dropped mainstream Magic with Twitter Bans. I only check new sets for fun Cube cards and don't give any more fucks about them.

>> No.74974832

>>74974703
7th edition? any other "core set"? honestly all the pre-Modern sets are kinda pricey because they're old and rare, so you're better off proxying.

>>74974757
yes. it's a deckbox made out of 0.02$ cards that are worth 2000$ on the "secondary market". it also looks just plain crappily-made.

>> No.74974840
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74974840

>>74974712
>prerelease at home
what's the point when there's no prize support

>> No.74974848

>>74974831
>I don't care about Magic but I check /mmg/ every day and follow all the releases to add to my cube (cube is somehow not Magic)
Don't reply to yourself, it's pathetic.

>> No.74974861

>>74974831
did you find any fun cards for you're cube in ZNR?

>>74974840
the real prize is the friends we made along the way :^)

>> No.74974938
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74974938

CUUUUUUUUUUBE!!

>> No.74975009

>>74974848
>I don't care about Magic but I check /mmg/ every day and follow all the releases to add to my cube
Even if that was what he said, he'd still be 100% in the right

>> No.74975537

>>74974814

I didn't even look at it tbqh. just snagged the a hit off GIS

>> No.74975679
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74975679

>>74974631
>How are you holding up?
Quite well, actually. I stopped playing, and I haven't even looked at the ZNR spoilers. Did they tone down the power level, or is there more FIRE?

>> No.74976138

>>74975679
A bunch of broken mythics designed solely to sell packs and the rest is garbage except a few commons designed for pauper.

>> No.74976225
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74976225

>>74975679
Power level is seemingly pretty toned down. Rumor has it that the set was originally more powerful and then they nerfed everything before printing. I don't know how true that is, but some of the cards definitely give me the feeling that they were hastily powered down.
The big concern is that they also introduced these spell lands where you can choose to either play either the spell side or the land slide, but it counts as the spell side in your hand/library/etc. It's an enabler for some big memes, like charbelcher and landless dredge. There's some possibility it'll affect how manabases are done (i.e. the possibility of using spell lands in place of normal lands), but it's hard to say since the land sides are basically all mono-color taplands and the spell sides are generally not the most cost efficient.

>> No.74976291

>>74975679
It's mostly toned down, but the stuff that is good really just serves to make the retardedly strong stuff even stronger.

>> No.74976310

i just sold my modern collection and bought a beta volcanic island
did i do good?

>> No.74976347

>>74976310
Magic will be dead soon. I'd sell your volcanic island now if I were you

>> No.74976368

>>74974631
Anyone using netecks are a low IQ faggots and any win you get is hollow and strictly because you cheated

>> No.74976391
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74976391

My biggest regret is dumping money into this shit game.

Had I just waited a couple years, I could've played every format guilt free with pretty good proxies.

Every day when I wake up I have to look at a shelf full of deckboxes filled with cards made obsolete due to bans/new cards collecting dust and it kills me a little inside. I'm tired of worrying if the value of my collection will collapse one day and I'm tired of the constant anxiety.

>> No.74976417
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74976417

>>74976391
>I'm tired of worrying if the value of my collection will collapse one day
Get a fucking life, anon. For real.
If you had a career, a trade, or anything besides being a scalper, you would not have this problem.

>> No.74976545

>>74976417
>not wanting to lose a fuckton of money makes you a scalper

>> No.74976554
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74976554

>>74974631
>How are you holding up?
I am alright.
>How's your LGS?
Corona nuked most of local businesses in my country (south america), but since our mtg (((((community)))))) is microscopical (barely 200 players) and the only 5 to 6 LGS in my country are clustered in the capital Lima and they all cater to those same 200 wealthy people, business has survived somehow. Product is still being sold and delivered, sure we sometimes experience delays but nothing major. Almost all LGSs now offer "auction houses" (basically you send them your cards, they auction them and they get 10% of the deal) with real power popping out from time to time (foil 2XM FOWs, LEDs and other RL cards) to keep the whales bussy. There are no local events (despite product being consumed) but all stores have evolved into "virtual FNM" either via mtgArena or via cockatrice (but you have to send the TO a high-res photo of you hold deck+sideboard plus a typed list) WITH PRIZE ENTRY AND PRIZE SUPPORT. We might be from a third-world hellhole with the highest COVID-19 death rate but at least we don't spend the whole day mopping around and crying; we still play Magic: The Gathering. And I think you should too.
>How did your Zendikar Rising prerelease go?
Fuck prerelases and all limited formats. Give me constructed or give me death.

>> No.74976583

>>74976545
Cards are meant to be played with. You don't buy your bigboy toys thinking on how much money you'll make in the future. If you are hurt over your rares losing >50% of the value you paid for them or bought copies to flip, YOU ARE A SCALPER. Fuck you.

>> No.74976697

>>74976583

there is a word for card games that get no attention from the secondary market: dead

>> No.74976732

>>74976697
You can have a nice secondary market without talmudic-tier pricing. Look at Pokemon and Yugioh.

>> No.74976880
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74976880

>anon, why are you so angry at Tall Mud? is it because you're so short?

>> No.74977090

>>74976310
>did i do good?
Yes, that's a good pick, also post pics

>> No.74977125

>>74976347
[citation needed]

>> No.74977208

>>74976732
stores don't make money off of pokemon/ygo singles.

>> No.74977372

>>74976310
I too sold my modern collection but instead of beta stuff i purchased a bunch of sought after old foils (like 7th painlands, odyssey diabolic tutors,..). Cards are absolutely gorgeous, i'm glad i did it!

>> No.74977406 [DELETED] 
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74977406

>before EDH
Red is garbage trash that only knows how to deal damage fast
>after EDH
Red is the best color due to its limiting but creative abilities and effect without being too broken

Thank you EDH for opening my eyes for best color.

>> No.74977429

>>74977372
Can you make a deck with only those cards, anon?

>> No.74977467

>>74977429
Uh, i guess i *could* but it would be almost unplayable and all over the place.

>> No.74977494

>>74977406
based redchad. But, I hope you mean cEDH and not tranny pageant EDH with (((((house rules)))))

>> No.74977504
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74977504

After hours of testing on MTGO, pic related is my current iteration of Cephalid Breakfast. Old version had a couple of vials maindeck, couple more in sideboard since it used a swapping sideboard, boarding out the combo either entirely or partially while boarding in a TNN beatdown package.

This version gets rid of the vials and the old sb beatdown package and replaces it with the following sideboard:
4x Rest in Peace
4x Helm of Obedience
4x Energy Field
3x Enlightened Tutor

Here's a few observations:
1) The old version's game two plan was great, until opponents got used to it. Since my eventual goal is to play this at my LGS once they have legacy events again, having that same TNN package in the sideboard every week just isn't gonna cut it.
2) When opponents would sideboard in graveyard hate against me, it was great when those were made dead cards by me not giving a shit about the graveyard after swapping out the combo. But then I started to think: it would be even better if those graveyard hate cards were actively beneficial to me. And thus that led me to the idea of a swapboard with the Helm+RiP combo. If they play a Leyline of the Void, a single Energy Field is all I need to be safe from anything relying on damage, and if they play a Rest in Peace they get absolutely blown the fuck out.
3) I was skeptical at first, but now I think I'm gonna have a hard time getting rid of the Lim-Dul's Vaults. It has frequently won me games outright from unfavorable positions.
4) The deck absolutely sharts on Esper Vial, which has recently become more popular on mtgo. It also does pretty well against most delver variants, since a lot of times you can make them burn all their interaction and then combo off at 4 life when they're out of answers.

Anyway as always I welcome any suggestions to help me continue tuning this. I plan on playing a bunch of mtgo leagues with it over the next few weeks, so I'll have more data and thoughts about it at that point.

>> No.74977585

I miss the days before WAR where I was playing MonoRed Phoenix, Burn, and Revolt Zoo and just having lots of fun.

>> No.74977675

>>74977585
WAR didn't do much to hurt modern. Some of the walkers see play, but I can't think of any card other than K4rn that were bad for the format.
MH came only a few weeks later, and the format's been unplayable ever since.

>> No.74977687

>>74977675
T3feri ruined control mirrors forever

>> No.74977706

>>74977687
Everyone already hated control mirrors since they were always the players going to time.

>> No.74977725

>>74977675
>unplayable
I keep reading this word over and over, but it seems it has become just a buzzword now. Could you elaborate, anon?

>> No.74977769
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74977769

>>74977504
I'm so glad you finally get rid of your vials. Idk if i helped you making this decision but i'm happy seeing it finally done.
About the RIP + helm in SB, it always have been one of my favorite combo in legacy, but for this specific deck i think i prefer a Paradigm Shift setup, with extra thassas in MD/SB. It too shart over grave hate but is cheaper to cast and eat less slots. You also get to profit from your caverns to make your setup uncounterable.
Btw i strongly advise you to play a second copy of thassa in the MD, for it come handy in a lot of situations, especially when you milled your deck, want to get back your thassa from grave and you dread return get countered or thassa exiled. With your second thassa in hand you transform a lose into win. It's a nice backup, and the card alone, even as a simple cantrip, is never useless. Also without the vials i'm convinced x3 caverns is mandatory.
I wish you the best, fren!

>> No.74977774
File: 142 KB, 672x936, znr-242-zareth-san-the-trickster.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74977774

>>74976225
>Rumor has it that the set was originally more powerful and then they nerfed everything before printing
Psyke!
got 'em!

>> No.74977802

>>74977725
Hogaak was legal for 3 months, and when he went down, he took every Looting deck with him.
Shortly after, motherfucking Oko gets printed.
Bullshit from MH is still going, and a few months later, Opal got banned in place of Urza. All those decks died.
Fast forward to 2020, the only decks you encounter at events for the short time we can have them are Titan. Then Ikoria drops and we all know the story of Lurrus. Once he's banned, people start waking up to how good Uro is, and he's been the most played creature in the game ever since.
Just take a look at the meta shares in modern and ask yourself if any of these decks look fun to play. To me, they all look fucking awful, and I just keep waiting for things to change.

>> No.74977806

>>74977774
Is this actually a good card?

>> No.74977840

>>74977806
It's a 4 mana instant speed reanimate that allows you to bounce your Brazen Borrower back to hand so you can use it to get 4 damage and reanimate some more next turn

>> No.74977847

>>74977806
>4cmc haste 4/4 that reanimates your opponent's shit as soon as it enters
yeah hmm who'd have thought, turns out on-curve hasty creatures with upside are pretty good.
especially when you take their Uro

>> No.74977852

>>74977806
It's just worse than fallen shenobi in real formats

>> No.74977857

>>74977806
Not him but i find it pretty strong. Especially since rogues mills your opponent, chances are high there is some big payoff in your opponent's grave by the time you can connect zareth. That said it's a one trick ponny imo, since it will most likely only connect once, and even if you happen to able to deals multiples times a simple soul lantern and the opponent will exile the stuff you target from his grave in response.

>> No.74977878

>>74977847
>especially when you take their Uro
Read the card you brainlet.

>> No.74977881

>>74977857
>chances are high there is some big payoff in your opponent's grave by the time you can connect zareth
Fuck that shit, worst case scenario he ramps in UB
he can get lands, you know

>> No.74977895

Fuck Rudy
Fuck WOTC
Fuck MTG finance
Fuck Maro
Fuck Modern, you faggots are responsible for the kind of speculative buying that drove the price of Modern cards through the ceiling.

>> No.74977900
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74977900

>>74977878
>hit them
>take uro (a permanent card)
why is this confusing to you?

>> No.74977904

>>74977881
>mmhmm there is an Ugin, but also a basic mountain i can steal from his grave
>what do, hmmm..
>ok dude, gimme dem mount-mount

>> No.74977908

>>74977904
>"worst case scenario"

>> No.74977918

>>74977900
I know reading is hard, so i'll help you
>When Uro enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless it escaped.

>> No.74977920

>>74977774
isn't this literally ninjutsu? why didn't they just use the keyword?

>> No.74977922

>>74977918
>"Heh, idiot! That play only draws you a card, gains you life and ramps you!"
thanks, retard

>> No.74977928

>>74977908
Well that's a shitty scenario indeed.

>> No.74977929

>>74977918
>free ramp, free life, and a free cantrip
Why is this confusing to you?

>> No.74977951

>>74977920
Because they don't want to use a keyword for 1 creature.

>> No.74977952

>>74977922
wow you got a """"""free"""""" growth spiral, what a big deal.. Nice cope, readlet.

>> No.74977967

>>74977929
>>74977922
Is there anything more pathetic than samefagcopping? I don't think so.

>> No.74977979

>>74977952
>it's only a 4 mana 4/4 hasty threat that gets an Uro trigger for connecting
WotC has a hard time impressing the 80 IQ timmy this time around. Maybe if it cantripped when it came into play and the flavor text was "This guy is really epic" you might understand a bit better

>> No.74977981
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74977981

>>74977967
>within 30 seconds of each other
>samefag

>> No.74978007

>>74977981
>implying you aren't an advanced samefag who post both from phone + computer so you can use this excuse

>> No.74978008

>>74977967
>2 people point out to the same retard that you still get the great trigger
>SAMEFAGSAMEFAGSAMEFAG
>posted basically at the same time
Somebody needs to go back

>> No.74978024
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74978024

>>74978007
>he has a phone

>> No.74978049

>>74977979
>>74978008
Yeah you right, nothing better to do than having an uro trigger, better leave this primetime/ugin/karn where it is, in the opponent's grave!

>> No.74978066

>>74978049
seethe

>> No.74978082

>>74978066
cope

>> No.74978084

>>74977979
>and the flavor text was "This guy is really epic"
damn, that does make him sound really epic though desu

>> No.74978118

>>74978049
>I'm a fucking retard and I don't know the difference between "getting the best possible target if there is one" and "getting at least an Uro trigger if your opponent doesn't have anything better"
Please embarrass yourself for another 30 posts, autismo

>> No.74978124

>>74978118
>URRHHHH DUURRRRHHH URO URO URO UUUUURRRROOOOO

>> No.74978131
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74978131

>>74978124

>> No.74978142

>>74978124
kek

>> No.74978177

>>74978124
but unironically

>> No.74978200
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74978200

>>74978124
idk why but i can't stop laughing

>> No.74978222

>>74977769

>I'm so glad you finally get rid of your vials. Idk if i helped you making this decision but i'm happy seeing it finally done.

In my old old version from months ago, I think I originally had 4x vials in the deck, and thanks to you + testing it a bunch, I trimmed those to 2x MD, 2x sideboard when I was still running the TNN/vial beatdown package. I will say that I won a couple of games during endsteps by comboing off in response to something and then vialing in oracle, so vial wasn't always useless, but I do think it's the right decision to get rid of them.

>Paradigm Shift
Interesting idea! If I went that route I'd probably add in some FoNs/other counters with that added space since mtgo disproportionately is filled with decks that fold to a wall of counters.

>Btw i strongly advise you to play a second copy of thassa in the MD
I've thought about this too. My reasoning is that my two cabal therapies mean that in most scenarios (especially in game 1s) I can clear any counters from their hand before the dread return. Even when I need to stop milling and pre-emptively protect against a possible surgical extraction, I can still name FoW with the other one. Luckily in all of my playing with the deck so far, I've yet to have a dread return countered (being unlucky with oracle getting milled before the first cabal therapy/narcomoeba and it getting surgical'd is a potential worry in game 2, though. though in that case i'd actually be fucked even with extra copies, maybe even more so).
That said, if I went with the Paradigm Shift idea then I'd definitely have to include more copies.
>without the vials i'm convinced x3 caverns is mandatory.
Hmm, that might be a good idea too. I really like cavern in the deck since SFM and nomads are both Kor and Oracle and Cephalid are both Wizards, it's like it was just made for the deck.

Thanks as always for the input! I'll keep you updated with the progress

>> No.74978294

>>74977895
Nice try, EDHtard

>> No.74978320 [DELETED] 

>mtg twitter going nuts after rbg died
lmao

>> No.74978328

>>74978320
literally who?

>> No.74978391

>>74978320
Whats rbg?

>> No.74978415
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74978415

>>74978391

red green blue, the basis of any pc display
fucking consolefags, i swear to fuckin god

>> No.74978420
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74978420

so until now I never actually looked at anything mtg-related on twitter besides terese nielsen's twitter briefly during that whole shitshow
and I got the idea to look at the #mtg hashtag just now
first thing I see

>> No.74978463

>>74978415
What does that have to do with Magic: the Gathering?

>> No.74978485

>>74977774
in a game where we're worried about the next hogaak/oko/uro/lurrus to come along and rape all formats simultaneously this guy isn't even a footnote, he's a discounted ink-eyes and that's it

>> No.74978508

I miss when this general wasnt pure shit
I miss when magic wasnt a garbage fire
I miss magic

>> No.74978513

>>74978485
ink-eyes doesn't have a FIRE-pushed tribe to back it up, mate

>> No.74978526

>>74977920
because its a ROGUE and not a NINJA. WOTC was too retarded to think a mechanic as good as ninjitsu could be used outside of Kamigawa, until years later when they introduced it in a commander precon and saw it was incredibly popular.

If anything it should be called stealth or something, since it fits the mechanic regardless of type flavors

>> No.74978540 [DELETED] 

>>74978328
>>74978391
Ruth Bader Ginsburg. One of the few pillars of American democracy.
With her death we slide ever so closer to fascism and the death of democracy.

>> No.74978565

>>74978485
>4 mana instead of 5
>permanent instead of creature
Pretty significantly better. Still not an Oko but pretty decent

>> No.74978567

>>74978485
Discounted Ink-Eyes is pretty good

>> No.74978581 [DELETED] 
File: 1.96 MB, 615x413, sides.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74978581

>>74978540
>Ruth Bader Ginsburg. One of the few pillars of American democracy.

>> No.74978587

>>74978320
>Red Black Green died
What happened to jund?

>> No.74978637

>>74978587
it fell below merfolk in usage

>> No.74978694

>>74978540
Please take it to /pol/
Her passing could unironically have heavy ramifications for the next 30-50 years. Wtf else is 2020 going to do for an encore?

>> No.74978708

>>74978694
>Wtf else is 2020 going to do for an encore?
What do you mean encore? The show hasn't even begun yet.
If you think what we've seen so far is bad, you have no idea what we're heading toward.

>> No.74978709

>>74978637
Ouch. A Jundlet and his wallet are soon parted.

>> No.74978735
File: 1.88 MB, 288x288, O.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74978735

>>74978485
>4cmc haste 4/4 in UB that ramps every turn "isn't even a footnote,"
this really are THAT bad, aren't they?

>> No.74978783

>>74978420
All artists are faggots one way or another and say this as an artist

>> No.74978785

i dont wanna play uro

>> No.74978791

>>74977774
I missed that it reanimates any permanent, not just creatures. So he can nab fetches and such too.

>> No.74978793

>>74978785
Sounds like you don't wanna play Magic

>> No.74978804

>>74978785
this
game
isn't
for
you

>> No.74978835

>>74978785
You wont be missed

>> No.74978958

>>74977806
It's probably decent in your baby commander precon group. Also god damn do people suck at card ev.

>> No.74979091

>>74978415
>red green blue, the basis of any pc display
wat

>> No.74979144

>>74978785
Take the redpill run spike field main

>> No.74979179

>>74979144
>1 for 2'ing yourself
lmao?

>> No.74979229

>>74979144
Nah bro just like path uro in response to his etb :^)

>> No.74979243

>>74978735
>4cmc haste 4/4 in UB that requires you to have a rogue already in play, aforementioned rogue to hit an opponent, has no evasion or protection, and needs to hit your opponent in order to generate any sort of value is just a footnote
Yes. He generates no immediate value when played and has no resiliency or ways to protect himself. The 3GG mythic that shits value whenever it attacks or blocks is a better version of him and it is also not good enough for anything other than standard and the format-of-which-we-dare-not-speak

>> No.74979261

>>74979243
>no immediate value when played
He does as long as you aren't a mongoloid. Also glorified haste is a form of immediate value

>> No.74979286

>>74974592

I haven't played Magic in ten years and pictures like this still make me really uncomfortable.

>> No.74979288

>>74979229

pathing uro is truly the 500 iq FIRE play
we should think of more
stifling uro etb trigger seems to be a 400 iq play as well, or sideboarding in hushbringers vs. uro

>> No.74979306

Threadly reminder that these >>74979243 are the retards wotc designs for.

>> No.74979354

>>74979261
>glorified haste is a form of immediate value
No. You can try to redefine terms all you want but you won't be any less wrong. If I have a removal spell up he doesn't generate any value (and in fact gives you a small amount of tempo disadvantage since you return the unblocked creature to your hand AND it doesn't do any combat damage). Planeswalkers and cards like Uro are cancerous because even if your opponent removes them as soon as you give them priority, they still generated value.

>> No.74979367

>>74979306
Can you point out where you posted that reminder in the last thread? Or the one before that? Or ever?

>> No.74979390

>>74979354
>dies to removal
yeah he should have hexproof and flash too so he can always have value and to give him that je ne sais quoi

>> No.74979419

>>74979243
>He generates no immediate value when played and has no resiliency or ways to protect himself

Retards like you are why we have FIRE

>> No.74979420
File: 183 KB, 672x936, eld-110-wishclaw-talisman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979420

>>74979288
how about letting your opponent tutor for uro? I mean we're all just here to have a good time afterall :)

>> No.74979433
File: 140 KB, 672x936, m20-111-rotting-regisaur.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979433

>go to check how dredge is doing
>it's icon is gay dinosaur cathartic reunion
>it now plays rotting regisaurs
wtf is even happening

>> No.74979452

>>74974592
Is that what a cube is? Huh.

>> No.74979458
File: 244 KB, 672x936, arn-48-erhnam-djinn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979458

>>74979243
>He generates no immediate value when played and has no resiliency or ways to protect himself.
>it actually has gotten so bad that people think stuff this stupid
Holy fuck remember when Magic was good?

>> No.74979460

>>74979390
1) That still wouldn't make him have any immediate value. Most things short of ETB, cast triggers, or being a planeswalker do not generate immediate value. Giving things protection makes them better but has 0 impact on whether or not they generate immediate value.
2) He would still need to have evasion since a single 1/1 chump blocker turns him into a do-nothing beater.
3) Flash would be mostly redundant and goes against the design principles of ninjitsu and not!ninjitsu.

>> No.74979468

>>74979433
Now, *that's* a dredge deck!

>> No.74979480

>>74979354
Yes. Immediate value is haste, cantriping or other token shits. You get immediate value because he's threatening damage or an ability. This is not a debate you are just objectively wrong

>> No.74979484

>>74979390
>yeah he should have hexproof and flash
anon...
...he does have flash.

>> No.74979492

>>74979420

Nothing has made me happier than two things:
1) Using second wish on opponent's wishclaw to tutor for my missing combo piece and win the game outright immediately.
2) Opponent casts show and tell, shows emrakul, i show overwhelming splendor

>> No.74979497

>>74979480
Haste isn't immediate value according to your logic since he could get removed

>> No.74979521

>>74979419
>>74979306
I'm not sure where you're drawing that conclusion from. The initial discussion relates to whether or not Zareth is a good card and when compared to literally any good card in any format other than standard he isn't. I'm not saying that he ought to be stronger nor am I saying that FIRE is a smart, sustainable, or fun set of design principles. I am just explaining why he is not on the same power level as Uro, Hogaak, Oko, or any other pushed, format ruining card.

>> No.74979538

>>74979521
No one said he was Uro-tier you dishonest faggot
Now you are lying because you got called out

>> No.74979543

>>74979497
Spells can be countered and get no value. Guess hardly any spell is aktually "immediate value" nurr hurr

>> No.74979546

>>74977920
No, this one requires you to return a Rogue rather than any creature. That and they don't use keywords that aren't in a set for some reason (see Eat to Extinction which has surveil without having surveil).

>> No.74979554

>>74979521
Zareth decks beat Uro decks, right now.
You lose.

>> No.74979582

>>74979091
are you retarded?

>> No.74979590

>>74979433
>>it's icon is gay dinosaur cathartic reunion

based
I always knew dredge players are degenerate scum

>> No.74979600

>>74977774
this card just seems much worse than fallen shinobi.

>> No.74979606

>>74979600
you say that, but Fallen Shinobi doesn't have a 1cmc flash 4/2 in its tribe.

>> No.74979633

>>74979590
You have no idea how shameful it is to be a Dredge player right now

>> No.74979665

>>74979480
cantripping and shitting out tokens is not immediate value unless it happens on ETB (or cast triggers/the loyalty ability on a planeswalker). Hero of Bladehold does not generate immediate value even thought it makes tokens. I honestly don't understand how you can be so adamant about this and still not understand the fundamental concept.

If I can Terminate your creature as soon as I am given priority after it enters the battlefield and after it dies your game state is identical to what it was before your creature entered the battlefield then it didn't generate any immediate value. Haste, like death triggers, generates value against board wipes and sorcery speed removal but is not in any way shape or form immediate.

>> No.74979686

>>74979633

it was always shameful but now you finally realize what you are

>> No.74979700

>>74979665
See:
>>74979543
Also who runs Terminate in the year 2020?

>> No.74979722

>>74979543
A spell that is countered, is countered. It never happened.
A spell that resolves into a hasty creature that is then hit with Fatal Push so it accomplishes nothing, has not generated value. You did not gain any advantage. You are down 1 for 1.
A creature that deals 2 damage on ETB like Viashino Pyromancer, is immediate value.

>> No.74979732

>>74979722
>A creature that deals 2 damage on ETB like Viashino Pyromancer, is immediate value.
Sorry, nope. Damage isn't value, anon, it is tempo.

>> No.74979735

>>74979686
dredge is a proud and noble deck

>> No.74979756

>>74979722
>You are down 1 for 1
Like you would be exactly if they countered it. Haste is a form of immediate value

>> No.74979768

>>74979665
>cantripping and shitting out tokens is not immediate value unless it happens on ETB

not the person you have been arguing with but there is a realistic need to reevaluate and adjust what constitutes Value in numagic. It's not like the old days where intermediate threats demand intermediate answers. Even minor threats that stick constitute a potential game win because the major threats are so powerful and generate so much card advantage that you cannot afford to miss a single beat.

>> No.74979789

>>74974938
>not liking cube
Don't be a faggot, anon.

>> No.74979790

>>74979735
>dredge is a proud and noble deck

you're just another millfag, except you never had the courage to admit it to yourself and commit

>> No.74979807

>>74979538
I have not said that anyone has claimed that he was Uro-tier. The closest anyone has gotten to claiming Zareth is Uro-tier is >>74978485 which quite explicitly points out that he is not even on the same level as Uro. Which has been my point from the start.

I am claiming that people in this thread are arguing that he is a good card and I am also claiming he is not a good card since when you compare him to any actually good card he falls flat.

As a thought experiment, can you explain to me why Ink-Eyes is unplayable in literally every format but Zareth is apparently a powerful card?
>>74979554
No shit? I hadn't realized Zareth had broken into modern and legacy already. That's pretty impressive.

>>74979458
You'll have to be pretty specific about when Magic 'was good' since the need for threats to be evasive, have protection, or generate immediate value dates back to at least Invasion block since that's when the 'terminate test' first started doing the rounds in card evaluation. If you're a really old-school player who vehemently claims that everything after '99 killed Magic then more power to you, we clearly disagree on when the game turned to shit. Otherwise you are misinformed about how people assess card power levels.

>> No.74979831

>mmg crying to the moon about zareth OPness
Wait until you guys read nuOmnath's textbox.

>> No.74979846

>>74979831
>point out card is kind of good
>crying to the moon about OPness
Take your meds

>> No.74979849

>>74979807
>You'll have to be pretty specific about when Magic 'was good'
>literally posted Djinn

>dates back to at least Invasion block
>literally posted Djinn
>you know, from Arabian Nights
>the Djinn from Arabian Nights
>which is before Invasion block

>> No.74979897

>>74979831
I strongly believe omnath will easily break into modern, maybe even dab on the meta like Uro did. The card is kinda insane, and it's not like getting 4c was difficult these days, when niv 5c is among the top decks..

>> No.74979911
File: 1.76 MB, 745x1040, ink-eyes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979911

>>74979807
>can you explain to me why Ink-Eyes is unplayable in literally every format but Zareth is apparently a powerful card?

Zareth costs 1 less mana for his pseudo-ninjutsu and his ability hits all permanents, not just creatures. Personally, I don't know if that's enough to make him playable, but it certainly makes him *more* playable compared to ink-eyes.

>> No.74979927

>>74979807
>As a thought experiment, can you explain to me why Ink-Eyes is unplayable in literally every format but Zareth is apparently a powerful card?
Fetch lands.

>> No.74979928
File: 2.27 MB, 1456x819, turn3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979928

>>74979897
I went to /mtgag/ and they were breaking omnig in standard day 1

>> No.74979950

>>74979928
Standard is shaping up to be Omnath v Rogues and Rogues looks like it is going to totally assfuck Omnath up, down and sideways.
So, Standard is just going to be Rogues keeping Omnath in check, and then Rogues gets a ban and it will be Uromnath.

>> No.74979960

I got my prerelease kit and made a little deck. My first deck ever. If I posted it would someone tell me how I did?

>> No.74979965

>>74979960
oh god please let this be a troll
I don't want the lil timmy to suffer ;_;

>> No.74979966
File: 571 KB, 1750x635, skydiver.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979966

uh... han.... ooohhh.. OOOOOHH OH UH
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH... HUMF...
I .... humpf.. I THINK ... *ooof* I'M GONNA.... oooh....
I'M GONNA MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNN

>> No.74979973

>>74979928
>4 lotus cobras
Wow, truly epic

>> No.74979978

>>74979965
I'm not a troll, but if you think others will flame me and derail the thread I will not post.

>> No.74979984

>>74979950
>day 2
>there are a couple of netdecks that have gained popularity
>"metagame solved!"

why are millenials like this?

>> No.74979985

>>74979978
oh no no no, quite the contrary
the people in this thread are very supportive, knowledgeable and helpful
my concern is that you are about to enter the MTG at the worst time ever.

>> No.74979999
File: 97 KB, 689x473, 1525916269380.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74979999

>>74979960
here, come... it will only be despair and suffering from now on but we are here for you buddy.. just hug me and forget about the sadness

>> No.74980004

>>74979985

going to leave you with a terrifying thought...

What if mtg is still the least fucked option he has?

>> No.74980015
File: 84 KB, 766x934, dubu doubt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980015

>>74980004
>What if mtg is still the least fucked option he has?

>> No.74980024

>>74980015

you have no idea how pozzed everything has become

>> No.74980026

Well fuck now Im sad.
POST YOUR DECK BUDDY, WERE HERE FOR YOU

>> No.74980028

>>74980024
tell me

>> No.74980032
File: 91 KB, 1024x804, 1599427883380.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980032

>>74979960
Post it friend, we'll help you out.
Just know, if you're getting into Magic in this, the year of our lord 2015, there are dark times ahead.

>> No.74980043
File: 34 KB, 720x762, 1504816979758.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980043

>>74980015
>tfw ywn have a doubtful waifu to doubt everything you say all day long
why even live frens

>> No.74980050

>>74980043
bro that's literally every woman ever

>> No.74980051
File: 22 KB, 264x378, cavern-of-souls-13764-medium.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980051

>>74974631
>How are you holding up?
kinda shitty. Moved recently so the people I play with are standoffish-strangers and roommates have no interest in mtg

>How's your LGS?
I think they're doing okay. It's a small town so rent isn't stifling as an urban hellhole for the 2 of them.

>How did your Zendikar Rising prerelease go?
Bought the kit to play online tomorrow with prize support and stuff. No set boosters but at least I'll have prize packs to play for.

>> No.74980065

>>74980050
i know... it make me even sadder now

>> No.74980076

>>74979700
Terminate was the gold standard for removal when people first started discussing concepts of immediate value in Magic publications like Duelist. Much like 'dies to doom blade' has become a catchall term for removal spells even though nobody plays doom blade anymore, 'the terminate test' is a pretty common shorthand for whether or not something generates immediate value.
>>74979543
In the same way that cards like Meddling Mage or Mindslaver makes it functionally impossible for a card to be 'strictly better' than another card; the Magic community has developed heuristics when dealing with vocabulary. The term 'immediate value' is generally understood to mean a card that on resolution generates value even if it is instantly removed. It is an accepted definition that the vast majority of the established playerbase understands and haste is not part of it. Why you are so unwilling to accept this I do not know.
>>74979732
You are mistaking 'value' with 'card advantage'. Viashino Pyromancer is a 2/1 that generates additional value on ETB.

>> No.74980088

>>74979768
I'm not arguing that cards need to generate immediate value to be good. Historically, good threats fall into the following categories:

1) They have a CMC less than or equal to whatever your opponent uses to remove them while also being strong in their own right (Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant)
2) They are hard to remove or have recursion effects (Bloodghast, True-Name Nemesis, Spiritmonger)
3) They are so powerful that if they are not removed VERY quickly they will essentially win you the game (Baneslayer Angel, Consecrated Sphinx)
4) They generate immediate value

Zareth is obviously not cheaper than the spot removal to answer him, he doesn't generate immediate value, and he has no protection or recursion. The only category he could even theoretically fall into is the third one and his complete lack of evasion and reliance on actually hitting an opponent in combat makes it difficult to consider him an immediate must answer threat. With Baneslayer you needed to continually generate flying chump blockers since it was very unlikely you were getting a 6+ toughness creature with flying/reach to actually survive combat with it, AND even if you generated a flier every turn it still probably meant your opponent was gaining 5 life every combat making it next to impossible for burn/aggro decks to claw out a victory. With Zareth you can throw out any kind of chump blocker or just play a big dorky ground creature like Batterskull, Wurmcoil, ____ Titan, etc...

This entire time I've been saying that there are many reasons why Zareth is not a good card. It is the other guy who is choosing to fixate on the concept of immediate value and I am pointing out to him that he is wrong in his definition.

>> No.74980089

>>74980043
dubu is there for you, to doubt anything you want in your dreams!

>> No.74980096

>>74980076
>Why you are so unwilling to accept this I do not know.
because he is either retarded or trolling ("pretending" to be retarded) which is functionally the same as being retarded

>> No.74980110
File: 359 KB, 560x450, twogirlsfightguysmokes.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980110

>people arguing and despairing over Oko, Veil, Uro, and whatever new G/U bullshit Wizards prints in every new standard set
>me still planning on playing Goblins in Legacy, Modern, and maybe brew Goblins for Pioneer and Pauper when the pandemic lifts

>> No.74980113

>>74980088
>spot removal
But nobody plays that anymore

>> No.74980145

>>74980032
Okay, here's the deck I made for pre-release. I mostly did G/W because of the mythic rare.

https://deckstats.net/deck-22209689-007c2b844c93a7742332fa6d4f3a94da.html

>> No.74980186
File: 911 KB, 2330x1536, 291217AA-4D94-44E1-87AF-3A7678B75BD0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980186

The “promo” slot on Zendikar Rising Pre-release packs doesn’t even have a fucking date-stamp anymore. What the fuck, how lazy is Wizards?

>> No.74980191

>>74976545
You are constantly losing money. Nearly every asset you own is depreciating on a daily basis. You'll never resell a computer or television for more than you purchased it. Usually, you won't sell them at all, you'll just junk them.
Why are you upset that your cards function like most other things you own?

>> No.74980201

>>74980186
so how can you even tell they are prerelease promos?

>> No.74980204

>>74980186
Wait, really? That's great news. Those stamps always looked like ass.

>> No.74980209

>>74979849
Most people would claim that there was a point where Magic started being good and a point where Magic stopped being good. Posting a card from Arabian Nights only indicates to me that the person posting that card believes that during Arabian Nights Magic was good. Is the implication that during Alpha Magic was bad, during Arabian Nights it was good, but then as soon as Antiquities and The Dark released it was bad again?
>>74979911
I see what you are saying and agree that Zareth is definitely *more* playable than Ink-Eyes but there are very few cases where going from 5cmc to 4cmc has made something jump from completely unplayable to legitimately powerful. It's also worth noting that Zareth requires rogues rather than any creature.
>>74979927
We're talking about modern/legacy then? So you're presumably on turn 4 and you think that going from 4 lands to 6 in, what I assume, would be a tempo/midrange shell is enough to make Zareth a good card?

>> No.74980211

>>74980201
You can’t, they are just foil rares as far as I can tell.

>> No.74980215

>>74979606
>1cmc flash 4/2 in its tribe.
what card are you referring too? i dont really play modern.

>> No.74980224
File: 163 KB, 667x936, 1587253884894.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980224

>>74980186
>doesn’t even have a fucking date-stamp anymore.
yet another thing on the long list of nails in MTG's coffin.

>> No.74980232
File: 174 KB, 672x936, m21-361-thieves-guild-enforcer.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980232

>>74980215

>> No.74980234

>>74979950
rogues are going to get banned because they aren't simic, and WOTC says that it's simic's turn to win

>> No.74980241
File: 177 KB, 672x936, m21-246-fabled-passage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980241

>>74980209
>We're talking about modern/legacy then?
Anon...

>> No.74980245

>>74980209
There is a large difference between 5 and 4 mana. If you think about the good 4 mana spells in modern like Mind Sculptor or Cryptic or Bloodbraid (when it was fucking played lmao) if you changed those to 5 mana they'd be almost unplayable. Not saying Reanimator Merfolk will see play but it's MUCH better than Ink-Eyes

>> No.74980268
File: 267 KB, 672x936, proe-_4-emrakul-the-aeons-torn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980268

>>74980186
I kinda lost interest when they stopped giving cool alt-art mythics as prerelease promos

>> No.74980285

>>74980232
>8 or more cards
>couldn't just make it 7 when Threshold is already a keyword

>> No.74980292
File: 253 KB, 672x936, ppre-29-avatar-of-discord.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980292

>>74980268
Aye, the alt-art was one of the main reasons to even go to a prerelease back then. The art on the promos was generally a cut above what you usually saw, which, at the time, was a pretty high standard to begin with.

>> No.74980303

>>74980110
Based tribal poster. May your draws be good and your plays especially silly.
>TQ
Work is slamming me so hard that I crash by the end of every work day. I've been scouring Legacy resources since Modern looks like a mess now. Decided on a Japanese-style Reanimator build and wanted to bling it with Beta Dark Rituals and Animate Deads. Then my LGS posted that they got a playset of Beta Rituals. Well, they're mine now. Definitely my favorite card by far. Bought a pre-release pack for myself and one for my wife. We do two-player drafts and have fun all the time. Once we clear our last few miscellaneous packs I have a sealed box of Fallen Empires to draft. We're excited.
Any recommendations for something in Legacy that runs a lot of 1-ofs or an unpredictable list of cards? My wife prefers decks with a lot of character and weirdness, hence why she likes drafting. Battle of Wits looks fun but also not necessarily competitive.

>> No.74980305

>>74980186
>>74980224
Mine has the stamp.

>> No.74980307

>>74980285
>make a trivial requirement even more trivial
oh ho ho, yes, yes, the FIRE is strong with this one!

>> No.74980389

>>74980234
Why did they push Rogues so hard then?

>> No.74980409

>>74980245
I agree with Cryptic being unplayable at 5 but that's mostly because (1) Cryptic is only fringe playable in modern right now at 4 and (2) answers rely on being cheap much more than threats do. I suspect Jace would still be a good card that would see play at 5 (if the original 4cmc version didn't exist obviously) and I have no idea what the fuck would happen with Bloodbraid since cascade is a weird ability that arguably gets better at higher cmc.

There definitely is a large difference between 5 and 4 mana but not so large that a bad card can be made good. A vanilla 6/6 at cmc 4 is better than a vanilla 6/6 at cmc 5 but not so much that is would be playable in any format where the cmc 5 version wasn't.

Board wipes are a good example of this too. I'm used to unconditional board wipes costing 4 mana but there was a long period during Kahns through to at least Kaladesh where End Hostilities and Fumigate were the best options available and they still saw play because the effect was important enough that one extra cmc didn't make them unplayable.

>> No.74980415

>>74980145
Seems good! A decent mana curve, maybe a bit cluttered in the 3 converted mana cost slot, but that's not the worst thing in the world. Not terrible for a first deck at all.

:'^) I hope you had fun! MTG is always at its best when you're innocent of its goings on.
Oh boy, have we here become jaded...

>> No.74980424
File: 31 KB, 836x197, Warrior Elves.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980424

Rate my casual deck please!

>> No.74980427

>>74980389
Because they were frantically trying to cut back on the power level of flip lands, in response to the broken Standard train.
In doing so, they totally neglected to look at balancing anything that did not enable the at-the-time top decks, ie. Uropiles.
Thus, Rogues stayed at the OG power level of the set while the lands and cards that enabled them were tanked. Even with all that effort, however, Rogue decks are still playing the flip lands

>> No.74980447

>>74980427
Yeah, I play Rogues

>> No.74980469

>>74980292
I think you're the only person I've seen with that opinion. Usually the prerelease promos felt like submissions from other artists for the same card and the one that WotC ended up going for was usually the better of the two.

There were exceptions obviously (Hypersonic Dragon and Corpsejack Menace from RtR both stand out to me as having better promo art) but I found that most prerelease/release promos were about on par or slightly below the art of the actual set. Demigod of Revenge always standing out as one of the biggest downgrades.

>> No.74980484

>>74980424
Cut Nissa and Nissa's Chosen for another 3 copies of Lotus and Emerald.

>> No.74980495
File: 306 KB, 672x936, pmbs-96-glissa-the-traitor.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980495

>>74980469
>Demigod of Revenge always standing out as one of the biggest downgrades.
It's possible that I only hit the prereleases with art improvements. Many of them, I was too busy to attend at the time, so my opinion might be distorted. I remember all the promos being big upgrades.

>> No.74980501

>>74980484
We play with vintage ban list so I can't do that lol

>> No.74980512
File: 202 KB, 326x337, 1586822995258.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980512

>>74980501
>Casual vintage
>"Kitchen table but Lurrus is banned"

>> No.74980540

>>74980512
Yeah my playgroup is pretty cool

>> No.74980553

>>74980495
Definitely possible. The period where prereleases had alternate art promos was a long one and there definitely were a bunch of exceptions that looked a lot better than their original versions (Glissa is great as you have already indicated and I really like Korlash by RKF from Planar Chaos) so it's entirely possible that you missed the sets where it was a significant downgrade.

I'm upset that I can't figure out how to search scryfall for just promos that have alternate art.

>> No.74980587

>>74980553
>I'm upset that I can't figure out how to search scryfall for just promos that have alternate art.

"set:ppre" is a decent place to start. Doesn't get them all and includes the non-alt ones too, but it's better than nothing.

>> No.74980590

>>74980501
Cut Nissa and Nissa's chosen for a couple of copies of Elvish Archdruid, a couple of copies of Glimpse of Nature, a single copy of Craterhoof Behemoth and a single copy of Ezuri, Renegade Leader.

>> No.74980626

>>74980587
Yeah I saw that there was a prerelease function but because each set before RTR only had 1 prerelease promo and each set after Journey into Nyx had like 30, you're completely overwhelmed by the normal art rares. You'd probably have to manually include all the sets you were looking for in the advanced settings but that's a very inelegant solution.

>> No.74980844

>>74980553
The wiki has a page that lists all the prerelease cards w/ links.
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Prerelease_card

>> No.74980848
File: 26 KB, 589x442, mmg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980848

>> No.74980864

>>74980848
Well it’s true!

>> No.74980894

>>74980848
t. EDH loser so mad he had to make this

>> No.74980910
File: 28 KB, 326x261, 1545881774500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980910

>>74980186
Could just be a misprinted batch. Or maybe they didn't receive any promo from jotc and since they couldn't wait for this smol indie company to fix their shit, the store simply gave away some foils they got from their mass box opening. To me that sound way more likely..

>> No.74980926

I'm looking at the old prerelease promos now.
Hot damn did Magic used to care about the art. Some of these look fucking amazing.

>> No.74980950

>>74980848
No "ban creeping chill"?

>> No.74980962

>>74980950
but seriously though,
ban mystic sanctuary

>> No.74980963

>>74980232
>4/2
That's a 3/2, which happen to fuel your opponent gameplan. And 8 cards is almost impossible to achieve in a world where escape is one of, if not the most, broken mechanic ever printed. Enjoy your 1/1.

>> No.74980980
File: 99 KB, 672x936, znr-236-soaring-thought-thief.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74980980

>>74980963
>And 8 cards is almost impossible to achieve in a world where escape is one of, if not the most, broken mechanic ever printed
So you're saying you haven't seen the rogue deck in action, then?
Because it sounds like you aren't aware that it mills 6-10 cards every turn at instant speed.

>> No.74980983

>>74980553
https://scryfall.com/search?q=%28set%3Appre+date%3E2003-09-01%29+or+%28is%3Aprerelease+%28block%3AMRD+or+block%3ACHK+or+block%3ARAV+or+block%3ATSP+or+block%3ALRW+or+block%3ASHM+or+block%3AALA+or+block%3AZEN+or+block%3ASCM+or+block%3AINN+or+block%3ARTR+or+block%3ATHS%29%29&unique=cards&as=grid&order=released&dir=asc

>> No.74980992

>>74980427
Rogue is a meme who will fade away in no times, relying on opponent's grave state is the clunkiest shit ever. It's not because this meme deck won few standard prerelease that it's the invincible tier1 everyone is claiming it to be. People just are constantly overreacting these days, it start to get seriously annoying.

>> No.74981026

>>74980992
You don't rely on your opponent's grave, anon. You quickly achieve a board state of 4/2s and 7/3s that can mill 6-8 cards a turn, enabling itself immediately even if your opponent exiles their entire own graveyard first.
It is really, unreasonably fast and reliable, and the fact it operates almost entirely at Flash speed makes it so much better into control decks than other aggro builds.
I get that you just want to be a shithead contrarian, but seeing it in action, it really is disgusting.

>> No.74981053

>>74980980
Ok thought thief is really abused, but the whole deck rely upon this card to further it's mill gameplan, i find it to be pretty fragile. Deck is gud, but i'd be more concerned about the landfall abominations about to come, which is constant CA snowballing.

>> No.74981063
File: 127 KB, 672x936, znr-70-merfolk-windrobber.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981063

>>74981053
>but the whole deck rely upon this card to further it's mill gameplan
it doesn't, by the way

>> No.74981070

They also have Vampmogoyf

>> No.74981077

>>74981063
Ok, i need to see a complete list, i'm maybe underestimating it.

>> No.74981080

>>74980232
Is that an attractive white female on a Magic card?
WTF?

>> No.74981104

>>74981080
It's OK to jotc's standards if the female in question is crippled.

>> No.74981116
File: 814 KB, 604x717, 1596760275958.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981116

>When you realize that ZNR Rogues is just Lorwyn Faeries 2.0, except faster and with better countermagic

>> No.74981199

Reprint a 2CMC Human Rogue equivalent to Faerie Macabre

>> No.74981204

>>74981077
>Ok, i need to see a complete list, i'm maybe underestimating it.
the ideal list has yet to settle, but its payoffs are just retarded. The core list is basically,

>Windrobber + Guild Enforcer at 1cmc
>Soaring Thought Thief
>Brazen Borrower
>Drown in the Loch/Anticognition
>Agadeem's Awakening (kek)
>Rankle and Zareth San as the top-end

and maybe:
>Mind Carver

The list is just high-power Flash threats backed up by 2cmc countermagic. It's as fast as any regular aggro deck, but can play the control magic / lategame plan with Agadeem, Drown and countermagic. And it operates almost entirely at instant speed.

>> No.74981223

>>74981026
I hate standard but it almost make me wanna build an anti-rogue dredge deck ft silvermote, cling to dust, kroxa, skyclave shade, archfiend vessel, call of the death dweller and the rest being full cheap B removals + a playset of claim the firstborn and village rites.
This would utterly destroy the deck lol.

>> No.74981235

>>74981223
>it almost make me wanna build an anti-rogue dredge deck ft silvermote, cling to dust, kroxa, skyclave shade, archfiend vessel, call of the death dweller and the rest being full cheap B removals + a playset of claim the firstborn and village rites.
Anticognition and Drown in the Loch take care of that entire list quite handily, actually.

>> No.74981250

>>74981235
Uh no, it doesnt...

>> No.74981271

>>74981250
I mean, you being both dead and unable to stop it seems to be a pretty reasonable way to deal with you dickwagging in your own graveyard the entire game.
You are talking like the rogues deck isn't able to put dozens of evasive power on board in very short order. While you're trying to play from your own graveyard, they just kill you.

>> No.74981307

>>74981271
Yeah yeah rogue is infinitely powerful, it's the most insane standard deck ever and will take over legacy & vintage in less than a week and nothing can beat it even if your 75 is full anti-rogue and the only solution is to ban every single rogue who ever existed and blablah...

>> No.74981316

The rogues deck is seriously retarded and I think it would be playable in pre-MH1 Modern

>> No.74981321

>>74981307
You literally put together a decklist that wouldn't be able to do a single thing before it gets killed by rogues, and suggested it was an "anti-rogue" deck.
What do you expect the response to be?
"Oh yeah great idea man! These Sorcery speed spells will totally deal with their flashing threats and will totally be able to punch through all the cheap countermagic they have! Haha man you really are a genius!" or some shit?

>> No.74981334

>>74981321
You know overinflating everything make you sound ridiculous and weak-minded, right?

>> No.74981344
File: 89 KB, 350x378, 1590208980404.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981344

>>74981334
>"b-but my idea was SO GOOD!"
>"I was just g-gonna Village Rites (at sorcery speed) their... f-flashing creatures!"
>"And look at all these Silversmote Gouls i'm gonna get off of all this life gain I'm never going to resolve!"
>"no y-you're overinflating things!"

>> No.74981372

>>74981334
Go make a deck and go 5-0 then
I play the Rogues deck and while you are farting around with Silversmotes I am hitting you with an 8/3 flying lifelinker

>> No.74981384

>>74981372
Wow anon! your dick is so fucking BIG !!

>> No.74981392

>>74981316
It's such an an unholy combination of extreme aggro, tempo control magic and powerful top-end value engines all operating at Flash speed. The whole thing is such a perfect storm. It's a fast deck that doesn't run out of gas. What the fuck is this.

>> No.74981397

>>74981344
That's not how village rites is working, you don't target your opponent's creature with a sacrifice spell.

>> No.74981400

>>74981397
>a playset of claim the firstborn and village rites.
> a playset of claim the firstborn (sorcery)

>> No.74981403

>>74981392
I think it's the best deck ever in the history of the world.

>> No.74981410

>>74981400
Where is the issue then? How flash forbid you to steal their stuff exactly?

>> No.74981417

>>74981403
I mean it's not Snowko, but it is a very robust list that has strong plays against other aggro decks, is fast enough to crash through midrange decks, and has good ways to punch through control decks.
It's just a very robust list that has very few weaknesses. It, a deck abusing mill, being this good in a meta where Escape is running rampant really hints at how powerful the core deck is.

>> No.74981420

How many times have you quit magic anon?
When will it be the last?

>> No.74981425

>>74981392
If you get wiped or they try to grind you out ypu can just come back with the rez land too. And the milling is not irrelevant.

>> No.74981428

>>74981410
>claim the firstborn (sorcery)
>flash (meaning: at instant speed)
they can't cast claim the firstborn during their end step, anon. You flash your threats in, untap on your turn and now have threats and countermagic to protect them, while they have useless cards that did nothing in their hand.

>> No.74981444

>>74981428
Ok but once your threat is in, like you know, the next turn, what forbid you to do it?

>> No.74981445

>>74981425
That's just what I mean. control decks have a hard time slipping board wipes through, since all your threats have Flash, and your countermagic is cheaper (2cmc) than their wipes (usually 4cmc).
Even if they do board wipe you, you still have ways to push through. It's crazy, man. Just seeing the first few untuned shitbrews of this list has me scared of its potential.

>> No.74981454

>>74981444
>the next turn, what forbid you to do it?
Their countermagic. Plus, they just hit you for a quarter of your life total, so your removal's effectiveness is blunted a bit even if you get it to land.

>> No.74981479

>>74981454
Ok so they always have the perfect hand at all time but i'm already out of tempo for trying to cast a 1 cmc spell? Seems fair. I guess the deck is about to rule the meta then.

>> No.74981490

>>74981479
>Ok so they always have the perfect hand at all time
It's a deck full of cheap threats and redundant counterspells. They have good hands more often than you, relying on 2-card combos to remove single creatures, ever will.

>> No.74981551

>>74981420
>How many times have you quit magic anon?
Twice first time around kamigawa and the second around first innistrad
>When will it be the last?
Probably this time I really just dont enjoy the game anymore and everything I did enejoy doesnt ever seem likely to come back the only thing really keeping me around was that my friends played but 2 out of 3 quit over the past few months and the only one left plays edh which I'm really just not willing to do

>> No.74981554
File: 99 KB, 672x936, znr-85-thieving-skydiver.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981554

>Thieving Skydiver is a Rogue
oh boy!

>> No.74981569

>>74981490
What piss me off the most is rogue, as most recent decks using either lordish tribal or mechanics effects, is a deck in kit ready-to-use. You have to put 0 effort into building it, you just pick up all the cards from X tribe or with Y keyword and you are ready to go. Already tinkered and prepared for you by jotc™®. I fucking hate it.

>> No.74981577

>>74981569
>What piss me off the most is rogue, as most recent decks using either lordish tribal or mechanics effects, is a deck in kit ready-to-use.
What you don't like your deckbuilding process to be "ctrl+f Rogue, done"?
Clearly, this game isn't for you.

>> No.74981580

>>74981569
Yeah reminds me of Shadowverse

>> No.74981591
File: 1.72 MB, 1440x816, 75e.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981591

>>74981104

>> No.74981597

>>74979999
>digits
>based post
>no (You) for him until this one
Truly, /mmg/ is dead.

>> No.74981611

>>74981569
Yeah there was something nice about discovering some wacky synergy between two cards that obviously weren't designed to be played together. I guess after CopyCat the design team decided that it's better to just do pre-built rigid archetypes than to design open-ended synergies and potentially have unforseen combos crop up.

It probably also has something to do with keystone uncommons for draft; an idea that I still think is incredibly retarded.

>> No.74981628
File: 6.42 MB, 538x302, Playing with FIRE.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981628

>>74981580
Shadowverse is cool.

>> No.74981629
File: 168 KB, 672x936, rav-242-boros-guildmage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981629

>>74981611
>It probably also has something to do with keystone uncommons for draft; an idea that I still think is incredibly retarded.
I remember when uncommons were the exact opposite, good pickups early that allow you to pivot into multiple plans as needed.
This whole "our players are too retarded to do anything themselves" ethos of nu-Magic is seriously dreadful.

>> No.74981631
File: 112 KB, 640x320, 1543484387122.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981631

>>74981611
Yep, jews love to control everything, down to the future meta they are already creating in advance. That's why they want to push standard so bad : the cardpool is so tiny they can easily control how the meta will look like / how it will react to any new set.
That's also why building combo decks is the only way left to be truly free from their grip, combos are bugs in the matrix they didn't expect while designing sets (because they are peabrained), so you can rub in their face :
- how incompetent they are at designing new cards
- how much you like to be free from their decks-in-kit shackles

>> No.74981643

>>74981631
>That's why they want to push standard so bad : the cardpool is so tiny they can easily control how the meta will look like / how it will react to any new set.
it is telling, how poorly they control it even with all these measures
perhaps, a microcosm.

>> No.74981656
File: 93 KB, 1000x800, 1546643572648.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981656

>>74981597
thanks for (you)ing my quads fren, i was losing all hopes i would get any at this point.

>> No.74981667

>>74981643
Yes, sadly their incompetence is even bigger than their willingness of control.

>> No.74981723
File: 40 KB, 312x445, 121.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981723

>>74981417

>rogues have flash
>rogues are UB
>rogues are low cmc
Am i a madfren to think this card is worth giving a shot?

>> No.74981727

>>74981723
Some of the early lists are already running it.

>> No.74981841

Went 2-1 in draft in Arena because COVID killed my LGS
The interaction between the BW cleric that gains life and gets bigger, the 1/4 3drop that gains life whenever a creature enters the battlefield, and the cat lady who summons a cat whenever you gain life, is really dumb.

>> No.74981892
File: 218 KB, 445x311, I am both respecting your privacy by knocking, but asserting my authority as your father by coming in anyways.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981892

So what's the difference between Spirits and Rogues?
I remember Reflector Mage eating a ban in Standard to proactively prevent Standard Spirits from filling too much of the power vacuum left by Emrakul. Is Rogues gonna be worse than that?
I literally only own Modern Spirits, so I'm worried about the implications.

>> No.74981905

>>74981841
Could you please name the fucking cards instead of your vague descriptions so we can figure out what you are trying to tell us?
Or even better, you take screenshot of all 3 creatures, put them on the same jpg and you post it here.

>> No.74981924

>>74981892
Spirits usually have flying and often times have counterspell style effects stapled onto them, give each other hexproof, sacrifice effects etc

Rogues tend to need to attack or deal damage to get their effects

>> No.74981933
File: 2.86 MB, 2014x936, clerics.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981933

>>74981905
Here you go babby

>> No.74981935

>>74981892
>So what's the difference between Spirits and Rogues?
Rogues is much faster

>> No.74981939
File: 580 KB, 800x610, Phantom Supremacist.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981939

>>74981924
Does that make Rogues more or less annoying than Spirits?

I wonder if Rogues will become a memedeck in Modern like Spirits used to be before Supreme Phantom.

>> No.74981946

>>74981892
Apparently it's worse because the curve is lower and the threats larger once the requirement are met (threshold +1). That said they have less lord effects and to me it looks like no creatures from the deck come close to the absolute power house spell queller was. But beside queller and phantom, it just look stronger at first sight.

>> No.74981947

>>74981892
Spirits was a strong tempo deck.
Rogues is a really fast and strong aggro deck that can protect itself and remove obstacles much better than Spirits, can bring itself back in long games, can never miss a land drop, and has several wincons including stealing yours

>> No.74981977

>>74981924
>>74981935
>>74981946
>>74981947
Do they have well-designed cards, as in cards that are powerful, but also fun and balanced like Mausoleum Wanderer?

>> No.74981984

>>74981977
no the cards are just full retard with 3 effects apiece like this >>74980980

>> No.74981985
File: 41 KB, 312x445, 022.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74981985

>>74981933
Thanks, you know what cards would fit pretty nicely in a BW life deck?
Griffin aerie.
Then you have Indulging Patrician, Vito, Oath of Kaya, Basilica Bell-Haunt and Speaker of the Heavens and you start to have some really serious options to make a viable deck using this strategy.

>> No.74982002

>>74981985
Too slow to beat Rogues.

>> No.74982015
File: 40 KB, 312x445, 070.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74982015

>>74981977
Tbh the deck looks like a blast to play. Personally i find picrel to be really strong. It was one of the unco cards who really made me go hmmm during the spoiler season, alongside the party-spell pierce, which i believe to be really underrated.

>> No.74982022

>>74981933
Isn't the bad pridemate still in standard? The 1/1 with the same text?
Seems better to stay mono white in that case.
Loosing healers hawk hurt a lot though.

>> No.74982023

>>74982002
Jesus, we don't speak about rogues, we speak about lifegain cleric, so get the fuck out with your lithany.

>> No.74982041

>>74981984
>>74980980
It doesn't look busted, but it has so many effects glued onto it that I can't quite gauge if it's acceptable or dumb. It reminds me of Rattlechains with how many different effects it has.

>>74982015
Being able to semi-fizzle against itself by drawing a card if the opponent doesn't deal with it quickly is somewhat interesting, I guess.

>> No.74982045

>>74982002
>rogues
too slow to beat AdN storm.

>> No.74982081

>>74982041
It's interesting because as soon as the requirement is met you have a card forcing the opponent to either lose value if he want to waste a removal on him, or lose tempo if he aggro since you'll chumpblock and still generate +1 card.
Not mentioning it will always be able to steal few life (and mill) in early game. It's the kind of card you are never sad to draw in the right build.

>> No.74982088

>>74981939
Rogues, in theory ,are easier to kill. Spirits with Mausoleum Wanderer and Spell Queller allow you to progress your board while keeping up protection at the same time.

>> No.74982089

>>74982081
And then the other 1drop is a huge tribal enabler and a 3+/2 with deathtouch later in the game
This whole deck is sick

>> No.74982096

>>74981116

my god...

>> No.74982106

>>74982088
It's also easier to kill a Dark Confidant or Goyf than a Supreme Phantom.
I'm worried Rogues might've turned into a tribe that's about dumb value, but maybe there's enough nuance to give it redemption.

>> No.74982159
File: 71 KB, 312x445, 072 (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74982159

All this roguery got me thinking about morningtide, frens... Maybe few prowl cards who were hard to trigger might finally be worth playing thanks to the influx of low curved + evasion rogues.
Also this will be the time for the best, most underrated morningtide card to finally shine.

>> No.74982199
File: 37 KB, 223x310, thieve's fortune.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74982199

Have we finally gotten enough Rogue support that UB rogues can be a thing in Modern? It was already pretty close with all the old support from Lorwyn.

>> No.74982210

>have played one game of paper magic since March
>Don't play MODO because fuck MODO
>Enchantress pile has been gathering dust
>tweak it anyway
>LGS is holding a Legacy event tomorrow
Do I do it. Do I brave COVID time to jam an untested build of the most stylish tier 4 deck? I'm so done with losing on turn 2 that I'm gonna be playing 4x Veil of Summer and 3x Leyline of the Void mainboard.

>> No.74982229

>>74982210
covid is literally about as lethal as the flu.

>> No.74982243

>>74982239

>>74982239

>>74982239

>> No.74982244

>>74982210
>enchantress
Of course you should go. That said it's really depressing to see legacy enchantress being the only deck getting 0 new toy for a decade straight.
Also post list. But i prefer to warn you : if it doesnt pack x4 RIP + 3x Helm MD i'm gonna be fucking fuming.

>> No.74982937

>>74974631
>prerelease
my lgs is having a digital prerelease tomorrow
>pic related
I brewed warriors equipment deck with nahiri that can outrace landfall, shes a lot more versitile than she seems at first glance. Also cowards cant block warriors is a beautiful line of text.

>> No.74983270

>>74974631
TQ
Our lgs is chill
Masks in pocket in case of inspection and fuck it, we gonna play some magic
Prerelease in a week with mah bros

>> No.74983639

>>74981070
too bad it dies to bolt

>> No.74983645

>>74976368
>tfw use netdecks to find staples, then combine said staples with random shit you find on scryfall and get a reasonable deck
shame it can't happen nowadays because uropiles will always outpace you, oh well, it's been fun while it lasted.

>> No.74983745
File: 503 KB, 800x450, sure gamble.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
74983745

>>74980024
i dunno, Netrunner seems to be doing okay despite dying officially and only getting support from a group of fans
if all else fails there's always board games. Millenium Blades in particular is an interesting one, would recommend to everyone who's not afraid of not knowing what the fuck is going on

>> No.74983768

>>74980424
stop using tapped out
start using deckstats

>>
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