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74765245 No.74765245 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Wait hold up.


>> No.74765649

>Little is known of the stalwart and mysterious Lions of Sigmar, save for their heraldry
Make some heraldry then you lazy fucks

>> No.74766154
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Always have been.

but nobody gives a damn because much like how GW treat space marines there needs to be a poster boy subfaction that gets all the attention while all others get left in the dust.

now consume your not-space marines

>> No.74766288

Hallowed Knights are literally Grey Knights.

>> No.74766308

of course they have multiple chapters anon, but do they have primarchs yet?

and HoS are literally ultramarines with the scheme reversed, yeah, we noticed

>> No.74766367

Yes they're just space marine chapters, but with women and hammers

>> No.74766555

Astral Templar’s are also the space wolves. Though oddly hammers of Sigmar don’t really have a lot of “poster boy” since they are t actually shoved everywhere

>> No.74766657

>Though oddly hammers of Sigmar don’t really have a lot of “poster boy” since they are t actually shoved everywhere
they are only literally everywhere, every box art, and have 15 named characters to the other guy's zero

>> No.74766681
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>Though oddly hammers of Sigmar don’t really have a lot of “poster boy” since they are t actually shoved everywhere

>> No.74767413

>Make some heraldry then you lazy fucks
Can you not read? The only thing that's known is their heraldry.

>> No.74767447

Celestial Vindicators is the only good paint scheme. They should make them the posterboys if any

>> No.74767513

But they don’t show it, faggot

>> No.74767574

Lions of Sigmar is Player 2 of the default (and even at that purple is not that different from blue). Now that's lazy.

>> No.74767596

Hallowed Knights best boys. Why the fuck didn't they use the literal heroic knight types as the posterboys is beyond me. The Hammers are so goddamn boring.

>> No.74767612

I feel like Stormcasts could have been something cool if 1) AoS wasn't just sort of a garbage mishmash, and 2) if they had more physical variety. They all look really samey, but "baroque armor giant" is something that you can do a lot with, a la Dark Souls or Kingdom Death

>> No.74767632

Are you mentally retarded?
It's the purple and gold one

>> No.74767674
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Sort of but not really. They are closer to Sisters of Battle in that their faith and purity is inviolable and manifests. Grey Knights are more like highly specialized anti-daemon hit squads.

As oppose to Space Marines being the same patterns of armor with some head/pauldron swaps and the occasional robe? because Stormcasts do that already. They even have bare head accessories though its only through Forge World

>> No.74767697

Their heraldry is identical to the heraldry of all of the other stormcast, except a pallete swap.

>> No.74767739

I feel like "inclusive fantasy space marines" is such a shitty execution of the concepts the Stormcasts have going. Like imagine if they were just basically daemons of law, human souls transmuted into lightning and used to animate armor and prosecute the eternal war, slowly losing themselves each time they die as they shed their humanity and become cold and merciless automatons of Law, maybe becoming less and less human as they do (So you get giant warped stormcasts, siege engine obliterator-stormcasts, kind of bestial stormcast monsters, etc).

>> No.74767749
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They have different heraldry. They even made upgrade bits for it. Admittedly, this looks a lot better with the Forge World stormcast heads, or any old plastic Empire heads.

>> No.74768120

boring as fuck, go away darksoul shit.

>> No.74768137

yeah you're right, space marines but in fantasy is better

>> No.74768160

it's not worse than boring ass automaton demon nonsense that was spewed by idiots 5 years ago when the game first came out.

>> No.74768161

I know that you're just a reflexive contrarian, but can you think for even one minute before you defend what is by far the most boring faction in either warhammer

>> No.74768167
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>> No.74768180

How? How is "Space marines without literally any of the interesting parts of space marines" better than fucking anything? They're dull as dishwater good guy supersoldiers with nothing cool going on with them.

>> No.74768197
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>The Hallowed Knights take a humble pride in proving their purity, seeing it as their defining quality. Those who die time and time again in Sigmar's service are often gifted with sacred honour parchments so that they might draw strength from the holy writ emblazoned there.
404: creativity not found

>> No.74768203
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>They're dull as dishwater good guy supersoldiers

About that...

>> No.74768217

Do people actually play this game?

>> No.74768220

Yes. Its actually quite fun.

>> No.74768223

It sells better than Warhammer Fantasy ever did, so yes.

>> No.74768226

all that said is that they're real good at killing bad guys. If they were full lawful stupid and killing an urchin kid for stealing bread or some shit then maybe you'd have a point, but that passage is just more "we're super good and we kill the baddies"

>> No.74768236

Okay, so they're not necessarily good but they're still fucking dull. Like I said, they're just Space Marines with the flavor filed off. The whole "they become less human as they go on" would give them some interesting narrative angels and allow for more interesting design space as far as the units go.

>> No.74768238

They've exterminated entire cities just because they found a single chaos cultist in them. Sigmar also dispatches them to wipe out indigenous populations they deem 'too close to Chaos'.

Stormboys love them some genocide.

>> No.74768256

>They've exterminated entire cities just because they found a single chaos cultist in them

Oh so they're the Inquisition? its been done

>> No.74768259

No, because they are as subtle as an anvil in Loony Tunes.

>> No.74768262

>more interesting design space as far as the units go.

They become a form of pseudo-undead after being broken down too many times by Reforging, called a lightning geist. They've been hinting about throwing them into the game proper at some point.

Though it certainly helps the setting that GW has actively ignored Stormcasts in the major plotlines every since Soul Wars dropped. Its all been about Destruction, Death, Chaos and Elves pushing its ongoing narratives for the most part.

Stormies don't even do anything right now except throw-away conflicts against undead.

>> No.74768272

I think that is the point, besides the smug irony of them being literal White Knights on the surface thanks to the paint scheme.

>> No.74768313

That's cool, I just wish they kind of leaned a little harder into it from the getgo. Kind of tragic paladin-necron Law daemons, transforming from chosen honorable humans into something both more and less in the service of the king of man hooks you much quicker, especially if they have to sacrifice their bodies to become tools of Sigmar right off the bat.

>> No.74768320

>ITT: People who don't read AoS lore complain about AoS lore

>> No.74768326

I have read a lot of AoS fiction. What I can say about Stormcasts in particular is that even from their inception there is this prevalent feeling of them being duped, lied to, and ultimately used by Sigmar. That he has deluded them, denied them their grim heroism and final rest by dragging them off to become Stormcasts and then purging them of that identity. Their memories only resurface in broken fragments. Often times in the earliest books they spend a great deal of personal dialog among Stormhost members questioning the nature of their newfound 'immortality', or what it even means to be Stormcast. Others find themselves dreading what became of their comrades after death.

As GW has escalated their ongoing meta-narrative we have seen more and more duplicity, darkness, cast over the Stormcasts and their origins. We have more questioning their purpose during all this mindless war, while others (i.e. Knights Excelsior) throwing themselves utterly into being unthinking murderous zealots. Sigmar intentionally crafts stormhosts to fulfill such criteria, even. He's become ever the manipulator and pragmatist.

One of the noteworthy named Stormcasts was an assassin in her prior life with no love for Sigmar. The great irony of her being stolen away , purged of her memories and made into a weapon for his purposes only showcases the kind of depth you can find within smaller stories featuring them.

I cannot say the same as often of Space Marines, who indoctrinate at a young age before the aspirant even has a chance to experience life or be anything other than an indoctrinated zealot. There is a greater sense of tragedy about the SCE being denied life and even denied a rightful death. Astartes can at least (normally) expect to stay dead when killed. Stormcasts, there is no end to the weariness of war, even as it breaks their minds and souls.

>> No.74768334

There is actually a lot of lore focus on non hammers of sigmar hosts, though. Anvils of the Heldenhammer for example were part of the focus for Forbidden power.

>> No.74768348

They really are not though. HoS have a mixture of dark angels (1st of them all, had to figure things out) ultramarines (biggest and most famous host, also colours) raven guard (filled with resistance fighters) and, funnily enough, world eaters in the form of Gavriel, whose backstory is basically "Angron without nails".

>> No.74768349

The criteria on who gets made into stormcast isn't very exacting. Sigmar's main qualifier is an absolute hatred of Chaos. You could have been a murderer or a pick-pocket whose city was burned by chaos warbands, a wizened old serf whose fields and grandchildren were burned by marauders, a lady hospitalier whose convent was raided by reavers. As long as some strong sense of hatred for the Ruinous Powers exists Sigmar snatches them up and turns them into his weapons of war.

>> No.74768365

I believe Sigmar also kills a chosen mortal if they refuse to be forged into a Stormcast? So even if he snatches you away from death he'll still end you if you don't bend the knee.

>> No.74768367

Hmm. Yeah, I guess cool then. Not really what I would have done with them, and I still think they look really lame and samey, but that's something I think you could do something with.

>> No.74768469

The space marines gotta have different paint on their ceramite you know.

>> No.74769030
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Keep telling yourself that and one day you might actually believe it.

>> No.74769211

Have you ever touched an army book? How many layers of secondary are you on if you somehow didn't pick up on this? Jesus fuck they even show alt color schemes on the back of the box

>> No.74769299

Is that a fucking dwarf squire?

>> No.74769491

Isn't that already what they do? The whole slowly turning into an automaton.

>> No.74769536

Yes but they oddly aren’t really a force in the books that much.

>> No.74769554

The Anvils of Heldenhammer look neat.

>> No.74769637

To an extent, but I feel like that would have made a good kind of central conflict for them rather than a bit of background. I also like the idea of them kind of slowly turning themselves into less human but more effective weapons of Law as they fall further and further into the zeal. Like they have all kinds of baroque armored monstrous creatures and support units that are actually just Stormcasts in different bodies. It would give them a more consistent aesthetic than riding griffons and such does, and add a bit of a splash of added darkness.

Basically I think they should have been a Flesheater Courts/Necrons/Broken Lords hybrid rather than Ground Marines with dark implications

>> No.74770518

Gonna need a source on that.

>> No.74771350

Two of these are even more shit than the others. Protip: IT'S THE GOLD ONES.

>> No.74771481

The hammers of sigmar feel almost tailored maid by a genius think tank to be the most boring thing they could open with, the stormcasts could probably benefit from a necron style aesthetic shamen up, just specifically a new default color scheme.

>> No.74771535

Hallowed Knights should have been poster boys

>> No.74771574
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>Anvils of the Heldenhammer

>literally any other stormhost

>> No.74771589

They could still change it up, all it requires is a reboxing of product and some sort of "event" accompanied of course with some new models following on the improved design aesthetic, maybe release an upgrade pack to offer new head and chest options

>> No.74771722

To be fair Hammers don’t even have a lot of spots in books. The most named characters don’t mean shit if their lore ain’t explained.

Hell the Stormcast character who LOOKS like Sigmar is with the Astral Templar’s.

>> No.74771757

Actually for some reason Anvils of Heldenhammer are advertised on prosecutor boxes.

>> No.74772181


and still AoS is shit

>> No.74772198

I will be so happy when that happens

>> No.74772351
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It's almost as if they are space marines on the ground.

>> No.74772809

Yeah but they ain’t brainwashed hateful zealots

>> No.74772849

Stormcast sux ass ruleswise and gets pwned though.

>> No.74772910

>He stated with confidence about a faction that often descends into Orwellian practices to fight chaos

>> No.74773096

Asshole Stormcasts are a rarity

>> No.74773503

When was the last stormcast release, secondary-kun?

>> No.74774810

They are all the long dead souls of heroes stolen taken from the realm of death. Many of them still have the memories of their previous life. They are kind of ghostly in nature and the great irony is one could end up fighting on the same battlefield side-by-side with their descendant and never realize it.

>> No.74774868

We have specific Stormhosts for that while others get to keep their Good Boy persona intact.

What is more notable is that Stormcasts are way more involved with mortals, governing and establishing new cities and kingdoms. In Realmslayer a Liberator is responsible for the founding of Edassa in the Realm of Fire back during the Realmgate Wars. In Edassa he is a legend with states made of him and stories celebrating his honor.

Unfortunately, he has been reforged so many times he does not remember any of this. The only thing driving him anymore is an unnatural sense of needing to protect the surrounding region.

>> No.74774884

Remember to Block redshirt threads

>> No.74774948

>Stormcast haven't gotten any models since the new edition dropped in 2018
>multiple brand new armies with full army ranges have dropped since then
>old Fantasy armies have been updated and given new life
>narrative plotlines akin to 40k 8th edition ongoing yet none of them have any Stormcast involved, pushing the storyline toward Death vs Chaos, Chaos vs Chaos and Elves vs Slaanesh

.. so why do you guys play 40k, again?

>> No.74774967

They literally are, and if they aren't then they get that part of their mind forcefully removed.

>> No.74775295

Not really. There are numerous instances of Stormcasts being either indifferent to Sigmar or simply grateful for the chance to kill Chaos fucks. The truly devout are dudes like the Hallowed Knights, while the zealots are the Knights Excelsior.

Its also hard for them to be hateful zealots when the Free Cities actively have other gods being worshipped in them, and its expected for them to respect that. Hell, even Gorkamorka has temples in Hammerhal. Gorka-fucking-morka.

>> No.74775315

>Implying people will play forgeworld stuff on a meaningful scale.

>> No.74775342

Nice try but you can never get the blood off your hands, faggot.

40k is in a bad spot but don't think we have forgotten, WE NEVER FORGET.

>> No.74775453

You never even played WHFB, secondary.

>> No.74776035
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Sure thing

>> No.74776144

That could be anyone's picture

>> No.74776172

>used book stickers still on the covers


>> No.74776256

So let me get this straight the only way I can have a valid opinion on how shit your game and setting is is to buy into the game and setting?

Fuck off, I only buy from secondary markets because it doesnt fund GW shills and people who also hate the lore and setting but still buy models need to stop as well because your just supporting the company that destroyed it.

>> No.74776294

Should I post my dick with a time stamp? Would that help?

>> No.74776644

this, those thread are populated with people who saw their favorite streamer play TWW and they complain about muh AoS on this board it's tiring

>> No.74776688

>Literally admitting to being a secondary

>> No.74776737 [DELETED] 

well yeah that's the main thing, it's like pretending to be a comics fan when you only buy funko pops, >Fuck off, I only buy from secondary markets because it doesnt fund GW shills and people who also hate the lore and setting but still buy models need to stop as well because your just supporting the company that destroyed it.
bruh we've reached peaked secondary

>> No.74776829

>buying from a secondary market makes you a secondary now

Literally admitting to being a shill

>> No.74776958

i won't take your bait

>> No.74777472

>doesn't know how to get pdfs for free
>doesn't take the time to research something and come to their own conclusions about it instead of listening to redditchan memes and talking heads on youtube
>doesn't even research subject matter to better discredit it


>> No.74777881

Oh trust me I am more intimate with your "setting" than you probably are I just dont see why I need to purchase something from on officially licensed retailer to have to have a valid opinion.

I read the Undying king, I read realm gate, I read all of the new shit GW tried to publish to back out of their stupid decision making after 1st edition. The setting is still garbage and will never get the blood off of its hands of squatting the superior Fantasy.

>> No.74777965

This.^^ Sigmar fans like to think its out of ignorance when its biggest haters are actually more involved with it.

Its not ignorance, that's what GW want you to before you consoom product. People who know whats going on are more likely to hate it.

>> No.74778034
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>Not making your own dudes

>> No.74778672

Sacrosanct with other heads look so fucking good.

>> No.74778969

No Lord-Commanders yet.

>> No.74779067

The thing with the Hammers of Sigmar is that they are former freedom fighters and, in a way, are the most likely to rebel against Sigmar if he went tyrannical.

>> No.74779612

Fun fact: This info is actually like four years out of date and since then, all these stormhosts have gotten a good chunk of development. The Anvils of the Heldenhammer, for example, are death themed - they worship Morr from the old world as the one death god who defied Nagash and remained whole. Their souls were taken from the realm of the dead directly, which means they actually have several characters from Oldhammer among their number - Balthasar Gelt and Miska, the queen of Kislev, both show up in the Soul Wars novel as major characters.

>> No.74779771

>They are closer to Sisters of Battle
>Grey armor
>knight in the name
Grey Knights, 100%.

>> No.74780308

>Grey Knights


>> No.74780561

I wish that Stormcast weren't only human. It'd be sweat if anything, from an orc to a skeleton who hated chaos enough could be reforged.

>> No.74781089

>Daily reminder "Secondary" is just GW consoomer jargon for anyone who makes a logical criticism of their sacred cow.

>> No.74781096

Its not exclusively humans, just majority humans as Sigmar is the de-facto Human god.

>> No.74783306

Early AoS made mentions to this but im not sure if its still true

>> No.74783459

Just like how everyone jumped to Horus Heresy after 8th was released?

lol no, its going to be a terrible game with rules like "Furious Assault" that wont have rules because they meant "Furious Charge". All the armies will be animu-age of sigmar adjacent like Kislev being Frozen 2 ice witches. Tomb Kings will probably be magic scarabs who pilot bone constructs with sun-blessed weapons and sand magic.

Its like people forget they still are going to follow their "IT HAS TO HAVE AN IP" tactic and all the borderline historic armies will never be back

>> No.74783473

Space marines are on the ground already...

>> No.74783613

Blue board, faggot. Go cruising for cybergay elsewhere.

>> No.74783922

I don't understand, it already died once already due to flopping

>> No.74783944

Wow, the other color schemes look even shittier than the celestial lion stormcast, lmao.

>> No.74784683

So basically the new "better" Shitmar lore is just taking things from WHFB lore, adding a bunch of WOW/vidya shit to it and bolting it on like a bad pair of tits on a tranny? HAHAHAHAHhHA

>> No.74785054

No. It's usually ignorance. We still have people fucking complaining about how they don't like how stormcasts are animated suits of armor, even though that was literally never the case and there's multiple models and pieces of art that have fleshy bits showing. The biggest haters of AoS are people who didn't know dick about warhammer until fantasy was already fucking dead for years and the game itself was just getting the memo.

>> No.74787237
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It didn't flop anon, GW canned it because of copyright.

GW has a history of bullying smaller companies in court over their IP, and it bit them in the ass twice. They tried to sue an author for a book called 'Spots The Space Marine', claiming the owned the copyright for 'space marine' (they didn't, they took the name from Starship Troopers), then tried to sue Chapterhouse for making models of units that didn't exist (court ruled you can't copyright something that can't exist).

So GW started cracking down on making sure everything in their IP was under copyright. Space marines (not copyrightable) were renamed Adeptus Astartes (copyrightable). Guardsmen (not copyrightable) were renamed Astra Militarum (copyrightable).

Fantasy however was a kitchen sink fantasy setting. Because it was inspired by classic fantasy it couldn't be copyrighted- anyone for instance could make viking-inspired dwarves. As there was no way to copyright the entire setting they instead nuked it and replaced it with AoS, which was designed by copyright lawyers.

Tomb Kings were nuked because you can't copyright ancient Egyptian aesthetics. Bretonnia was nuked because you can't copyright medieval knights. Everything with a generic name was renamed so that it can be protected by copyright- so instead of the (uncopyrightable) 'dwarven engineer', you instead have a 'duradin endrinmaster'.

Notably, the one Fantasy race that didn't suffer renaming and redesigning were the Skaven, which were an original IP and thus under copyright anyway.

So nothing to do with Fantasy's sales, entirely because GW are a bunch of greedy bastards obsessed with copyrighting their IP to an extreme degree so that they can win court cases.

>> No.74787314

I figure it's because they don't want to get caught sleeping again a la Starcraft/Warcraft.

>> No.74787329

>store sells thing people like
>over time store hires retards and starts making thing badly
>"We do not like this" say the customers
>I guess they do not like thing. It must be that thing is flawed.

>> No.74787487

Lets not kid ourselves about all of this .

First of all, Kirby was a retard who wanted to push the idea of model collecting over it being a game. They wanted to make a purpose-built setting and game system so that you can go all in on the model collecting aspect and ignore those other parts if desired as they are tangential at best to the experience from their perspective. They were utterly convinced this is how GW should operate.

Check the interview here
if you need further proof of this design ethos crippling GW at the time. They even (and still do) design models first, THEN lore, and THEN finally game rules and role within an army.

Secondly, and more importantly, WHFB was thirty years of accumulated cruft. It was a clunky beast at the best of times. One that they were ultimately too afraid to overly change because of the static, stagnate consumer base that played it. With so many old hands in the field with massive collections it made it not only extremely difficult to market to new players (again, see the interview) but also incredibly difficult to sell new kits to the grognards who stuck around playing the game and gating people out of its community. To add to this crescendo of bad decisions was 7th and especially, 8th edition with its unwieldy tome of rules full of horrid interactions that essentially ruined the game (combat resolution in particular, but magic was also quite dumb, cavalry was castrated, average game sizes and points values became retarded to accomodate mega-collectors making the game sizes played a huge mess that, again, only drove new-blood away from their game and over to other alternatives or 40k.

a few relevant quotes to help;
This is also a huge factor of it.

>> No.74787511


Posting some of the more relevant quotes

>James: Yeah, and it has happened I think. Someone comes into a GW store and says “I really think that giant is really cool, I want to play a game with that giant” you no longer have to say “OK that’s fine, so here’s what you need to do, you need to buy the Orc and Goblins army book, the rulebook, you’ll need to buy this, you’ll need two Core units at minimum, three really if you want to take a giant as you need to hit 2000 points, you’ll want a Lord and Hero… ” and you’ve lost them.

>> No.74787515

Now try forming an actual argument.

>> No.74787538

>Also, there were two or three edicts from on high which impacted the rules in a big way, and one of them was “Bases don’t count, ignore bases”. Which was weird. But that was the thing they wanted to do because they, the people at the top, said not every model has a base, so we can’t say that bases are a thing. And we don’t want to restrict people’s modelling. There was a big drive at that time to pull the game away from the hands of the gamers, so to speak, and make it more about collecting and modelling.

>Lupe: Jewel-like objects of wonder?

God, they really are retarded.

>> No.74787559

What happened to GW and Starcraft/Warcraft? What did they sleep on?

>> No.74787578

>One that they were ultimately too afraid to overly change because of the static, stagnate consumer base that played it.

Storm of Chaos was massively popular and they touted it as 'players being able to change the world'. When said players DID manage to change the world, GW retconned it in order to keep the status quo.

Hell, when End Times: Nagash everyone lost their minds from excitement because they thought the lore was finally evolving. The book sold out so quickly they had to do reprints. The players were clamouring for the setting to be less static, but GW refused to budge. And then when they did they completely fucked over the entire system.

>> No.74787631

Fantasy never had the popularity or sales conversion that 40k did, especially in growing markets outside of the UK and EU. It just wasn't a thing in the US or SEA.

What you are referencing is a massive case of confirmation bias from sticking to echo-chamber online social groups who revolved around the game and not looking at a broader picture.

Also you completely misunderstood what I was even talking about. Change as in the scale of the game, the barriers of entry to it, etc. The assumption about the default standard game should not have ever been '2,500 points'. It should not have had a massive tome of USRs and ten pages to explain movement. We know this can be done better, because better games have come out taking the WHFB model (which itself is a cartoonish parody of historicals) and made leaner, better games from it. GW could have trended in that direction but instead they chose to do stupid shit like creating the 8th edition ruleset specifically to push overpriced boxes of Core infantry and big set piece models, always chasing after the grogs who weren't biting as they already had massive collections from the however many decades they had been playing at that point.

If they wanted to save it they should have rolled out the whole Start Collecting model, the 'Three Ways to Play' rules ethos, the idea of pushing lower scale more narrative games. And of course earlier attempts at reviving specialist games and tying them back into their two mainline games.

>> No.74787750

>just spray em with black primer and you're done, lmao
What an uninspired color scheme on too of an uninspired aesthetic

>> No.74787894

where do you think you are right now

>> No.74788091

Minis or GTFO.

>> No.74788634
File: 2.12 MB, 3264x1836, B8DAFC3D-C661-4083-969B-FA2900F34DCE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Stormcasts exist in other color shemes, yes, and are usually visually more interesting than the all-gold default look. Shameless plug as pic related are my creamy boys.

>> No.74789653

Wow. That actually makes them look good instead of a shitty cartoon character. Great job Anon!

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