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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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73532437 No.73532437 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General!

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as it was played in the first decade of the game's existence - less emphasis on linear adventure plots and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about, we'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

Need a dungeon to start with? Here's a collection:
https: //i DOT 4pcdn DOT org/tg/1581716174821 DOT pdf

Being called a FOE?
Report the post and ignore. "Spamming/flooding" or "extremely low quality", both apply.

Troves, Resources, Blogs:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

Previous thread:
>>73500389

Thread question:
Exactly how lethal is your game? How often does a PC die, on average?
Do you think that's too much? Too little? Or just right?

>> No.73532450
File: 1.19 MB, 801x1000, 1582160133229.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73532450

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d8 (dice+1d8 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Our OC gets archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com
Tag your post with [OC] to help archive anon find it, please.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a magic item
>6. Make a race-as-class
>7. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>8. Roll 2d8 and combine.

>> No.73532778

>>73532437
Reposting for new thread:
> What do we think of pic related? I've been trying to think of ways to trim the fat in my sessions, and noticed that party admin was taking up too much time. OSR has a certain amount of bookkeeping and the like, but it was getting a bit tedious with the players specifying exactly how they cross every ten feet of floor. I've been thinking about a set of key "positions" like a sports team almost, that the PCs can settle into and assign their hirelings to. That way much of the admin can be assumed in a nice standardised way and I can rule more fairly on who may or may not notice traps and monsters, who gets advantages or disadvantages and so on.
>I'd especially like any advice on positions I've missed or things to point out that positions do best at.

>> No.73532783

>>73521958
So, making race cosmetic, basically? Making it so a human and a dwarf can both be level 3 Thieves, with the exact same character sheet and powers? That could work, balance-wise, but then you've got a dwarf with no trap-sense, no architecture skills, no infravision... First, it's odd to justify (did you uh... skip Heat Vision 101 at Dwarf University to practice lock-picking?), and second, it makes the dwarf mundane, which sucks.

Unless you let the level 3 dwarf Thief keep infravision and stuff. But then he's strictly better than the level 3 human Thief! Also sucks, though I suppose you could balance it out somehow. (Maybe he gets to keep infravision and shit, but while thieves are d6 HD he's a d4? Maybe he doesn't get some Thief skills?)

My answer to this is simply: dwarves can practice magic and thievery, but they do so in an especially dwarfy way. A dwarf who wishes to become a thief or wizard will gain the same benefits as a human wishing to become a blacksmith: they will develop useful skills. The dwarf will develop useful skills, but nowhere near the abilities of a Thief or MU, and will not become a capital-letter dwarven Thief or MU in the same way this human will not become a level 1 capital-B Blacksmith.

That being said, I like the way ACKS does it, and am considering letting dwarven thieves be "Saboteurs", elven thieves be "Bladedancers" and stuff like that, with Saboteur and Bladedancer here being an especially race-specific, unique take on Thief. Same with magic-use.

>> No.73532885

>>73532783
>though I suppose you could balance it out somehow.
LEVEL LIMITS
ABILITY SCORE REQUIREMENTS

>> No.73532920
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73532920

>>73532437
To be fair, my game is only moderately lethal in the fact that my players usually only die from poor choices and not combat ones as I am quite reasonable (IMHO) about using randomly generated numbers of opponents (i.e. I only use a number roughly no more than 1½ times the party number, for example five pc's might encounter 2d4 or even 2d6 opponents depending upon the type, even if the book calls for 2d10, unless it's a lair). This usually helps in combat matters, but it cannot aid the foolish if they bring an entire tribe or lair down on their heads, especially if they choose to "stand their ground", so to speak. YMMV, but my system works well for my players. :-)

>> No.73532969
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73532969

>>73520540
>>73527996
So first, yes, thieves are underpowered.
BUT ALSO, there's two things you need to know to make sense of thieves.
The first is to treat their % abilities as almost superhuman abilities. Climb Walls isn't their chances with a rope and grappling hook, it's their chance to take off their boots and gloves and scale an oiled glass tower without equipment. Hide in Shadows isn't their odds of hiding behind a curtain, it's their odds of finding and hiding in the very shadows of an open room. Move Silently is their chance of moving completely literally soundlessly, and failure doesn't mean they step on a twig, fart loudly and knock over a pile of copper pans all at once, it just means they're "normal" silent and monsters/NPCs now get their normal surprise roll or listen check.
As best I can tell that was the original understanding of thief skills, but it's fair to point out that was downplayed in AD&D so you can argue the opposite. Whether it's intended or not though I'm certain it's the best use.
The second thing you need to make sense of thieves is that surprise = stealth, and stealth = surprise. It took me reading the elf race description in the AD&D PHB to really grasp how far Gygax took that, but once I saw it it made sense of non-AD&D old school. Surprise means they haven't seen you yet, not just that they're startled. That's why you get a free round of attacks if you want, but you could just as well use that for movement - to go back the way you came, get into cover, or even get past them if move rates and terrain allow. Move Silently then becomes a second roll, only one of which needs to succeed in most instances to stealth past or away from a monster or guard.
(So my own fix for thieves in my frankenstein homebrew was to increase their surprise chance not mess with thief skills.)

>> No.73532986
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73532986

>>73532969
Both of the above started getting lost or changed as early as the 80s though. And people still fight it; sometimes the same people complaining thieves are underpowered won't make either of those mental shifts. And if you can't or don't want to, then by all means change how thief skills work. That's one reason LotFP specialists got a lot of attention. But be aware there is an angle you're probably not using yet.

>> No.73533092

>>73532885
Level limits are absurd since 99% of the time they absolutely never matter and you keep being significantly powerful than your human teammates. I believe their merits or lack thereof have been discussed to death already.

Ability score requirements put even more emphasis on ability scores, and also lock a superior character behind chargen luck. This is likely to disappoint that one player at the table who isn't trying to powergame or be a special snowflake, but just wants to play a dwarf locksmith and hide a skeleton key in his beard. I suppose it can be a good option if you're the kind of group that enjoys the thrill of being able to, say, roll up a Ranger or a Paladin.

>> No.73533152

>>73532969
>>73532986
As someone who doesn't use thieves and who has gotten this suggestion several times in the past and wholeheartedly rejected it... this would face a lot less difficulties getting accepted if they weren't called "thieves". Call them "shadowdancers" or something, fine, that's a reasonable interpretation of the purposes of the rules. But "thieves" especially when the level titles are things like "footpad", "robber", "burglar", "cutpurse", etc. just has way too much real-world connotations that it doesn't fit into my or most players' models of the game. What's the term for that? I know there is one but it's escaping me at the moment.

(Also I don't like how the thief basically just plays their own minigame while the rest of the party sits around and waits.)

>> No.73533571

>>73533092
not him by the way
While I generally stick with the unique racial versions of mundane classes you brought up, in a game where race and class are seperate, playable races shouldn't be superhumans, but roughly balanced with humans. Why would Dwarfs, for example, be able to see as far and as well as humans in daylight when they live chiefly undergound? If you expand on how infravision actually works, it's limits become more obvious. Even the archetypal stocky body structure of the dwarf means slower movement and less leverage, not to mention something that bulky will probably need to eat a lot.

>> No.73533997

>>73533152
I've been very tempted to cut thieves out or replace them with something else, but I think this is very much a "DM Desire". Something I've noticed running OSR for about 7 years now is how often DMs fixate on or worry about things that players dont give a shit about (or at least my players). Take the thief, so often we tinker and fiddle with it to make it "make sense" in a fiction sense, that is "how is it that they can do this but others can't", or we cut them out altogether. But at the table? The players just roll with it. I asked a player if it bothered them that as a fighter he couldn't sneak around like the thief. He said something to the effect of "I'm wearing chainmail and carrying a halberd, why the fuck would I try and sneak around when I can have the thief or halfling do it?"

The existence of the class is self-justifying, if there exists people with specialized training in infiltration and lock picking, why not just recruit one of them instead of trying to do it yourself? This frees you up to focus in on your niche (combat or magic). Why do fighters get better THAC0/Weapon proficiencies/To-Hit modifiers? Because they have a dedicated specialty, fighting. If they took the time to learn lockpicking, that would by default reduce the amount of time they could spend training to fight (and likely increase the XP needed to level up).

Nobody complains about Magic-Users not being allowed to train in combat as well as fighters, but as soon as the specialty or niche is picking pockets or disabling trap mechanisms everyone wants "realism"

>> No.73534085

>>73532778
Anon, I like the descriptions and I think you made it very comprehensive, but I'm skeptical of automating some things, like marking walls, headcounting and detecting magical hazards. I think as far as things like positioning and who holds the torch it's good to have those, but other stuff should be up to the players to remember and implement, in my opinion.

>> No.73534127

>>73533152
This (>>73533997) is still me, an additional point on "thieves just play a minigame while everyone sits and waits". This sounds a lot more like an issue of DM pacing and party collaboration than anything else. Generally the thief is suboptimal in combat, especially compared to the fighter, cleric, dwarf and elf. So a common strategy I see with my players when a fight breaks out is the thief actually slips out of direct combat attempting to find a way to manipulate the battle (drop a chandelier, etc). Or while the party is searching a room for treasure, or the magic-user is analyzing a magic item or something, he'll go ahead and scout. It's just a matter of shifting focus back and forth between the 2 (or more) activities going on.

All in all I think it's important to learn how to best run for the thief and how to make sure the game is engaging for everyone when a thief is present, in particular because players love them. I have never had a group that didnt have at least one player who loved thieves and wanted nothing more than to play a tricksy bastard, and when those characters are well-managed the game is more fun and exciting for everyone involved.

>> No.73534421

>>73533997
>>73534127
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that having the thief go off on their own doesn't make sense from an in-game/diegetic perspective. It makes perfect sense to have someone specialized for that. But from a gameplay perspective, it's another story. In one of the games I've played in, pretty much every time there's a door (which is often), everyone but the thief steps out of the way, someone ties a rope around the thief, the thief listens at the door, the thief looks for traps, the thief disables traps, the thief picks the lock, the thief opens the door and peeks through-up-down-and-all-around, the thief hides in shadows, the thief moves silently into the room, and eventually the rest of the party can come in, especially if there's a fight coming up. It's quite frankly boring to sit at the table while someone's doing all of that for every single door. Admittedly, this particular game is 3.5 and not OSR, but it's either the same or almost the same number of rolls, so I don't think that matters.

>> No.73534637

>>73533997
>I think this is very much a "DM Desire". Something I've noticed running OSR for about 7 years now is how often DMs fixate on or worry about things that players dont give a shit about (or at least my players).
Absolutely this. This at least used to be one of the main reasons this general always advises people to play by the book first, instead of shitbrewing their heads off before ever running a game.

>> No.73534731
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73534731

>>73534421
>In one of the games I've played in, pretty much every time there's a door (which is often), everyone but the thief steps out of the way, someone ties a rope around the thief, the thief listens at the door, the thief looks for traps, the thief disables traps, the thief picks the lock, the thief opens the door and peeks through-up-down-and-all-around, the thief hides in shadows, the thief moves silently into the room, and eventually the rest of the party can come in, especially if there's a fight coming up. It's quite frankly boring to sit at the table while someone's doing all of that for every single door. Admittedly, this particular game is 3.5 and not OSR, but it's either the same or almost the same number of rolls, so I don't think that matters.
It matters quite a lot. In an OSR game the GM is checking for wandering monsters every 1-3 turns, and most of those actions take a turn each. Those that don't still add up to a turn.
And then a competent OSR GM isn't actually actually placing a lot, if any, surprise!-roll-dice traps. Best practice is to clue their presence in some way, whether it's a dead body lying in front or something subtler like "ornate carvings on the wall, some shadowed like they run deeper".
Too, rolls should go faster in OSR than 3.5. That's most obvious in combat, but even out of combat there should be fewer modifiers to calculate/remember/negotiate than in 3.5.
Bluntly it sounds like you haven't played or run an actual OSR game, or at least not a good one, and you're proposing rules solutions to what are actually aesthetic objections. FOEGYG.
It's muddied slightly because in fact the thief can use a boost, but I still recommend you try it by the book at an actual table before deciding on a fix.

>> No.73534805
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73534805

>>73533152
>this would face a lot less difficulties getting accepted if they weren't called "thieves". Call them "shadowdancers" or something
So... call them shadowdancers or something? It's fundamentally an aesthetic rather than a substantive objection though.
>>73534127
>All in all I think it's important to learn how to best run for the thief and how to make sure the game is engaging for everyone when a thief is present
This, which is why I'm >>73532969 big on interpreting thief skills AND surprise in a direction of assuming competence on the part of the character.
It's important though for players to stop and think about how best to run a thief. I consider it more playable than I used to, but at the same time I now consider it a player-skill class almost as a much as a 1st level mage. You've got to pick your battles. Changing the terrain by, say, dropping a chandelier is an excellent play. Backstab is tempting but misleading - nu-skool players sometimes come in and try to use it like flanking, expecting to get one off every round or every other round, but leather armor and d4 hit points aren't enough to act as a secondary fighter. But hiding and *waiting* to set one up for a critical moment or against a strong foe after he's injured can be powerful if the player is patient and smart.

>> No.73535743

>>73534731
>In an OSR game the GM is checking for wandering monsters every 1-3 turns, and most of those actions take a turn each. Those that don't still add up to a turn.
Personally, I'd rather a wandering monster over a trap any day. It works out to about the same anyway. Do you spend resources on traps or monsters? Either way you still spend them.

>And then a competent OSR GM isn't actually actually placing a lot, if any, surprise!-roll-dice traps. Best practice is to clue their presence in some way, whether it's a dead body lying in front or something subtler like "ornate carvings on the wall, some shadowed like they run deeper".
Sure. If you can reliably assume that you won't run into traps except when they're telegraphed, that's true. That's kind of a big "if" though, especially considering many modules are designed with gotcha traps. It's also true for 3.5: if you can assume that you don't have traps, you don't have that issue.

>Too, rolls should go faster in OSR than 3.5. That's most obvious in combat, but even out of combat there should be fewer modifiers to calculate/remember/negotiate than in 3.5.
In my experience, they generally have them added up for traps (sometimes combat, too).

>Bluntly it sounds like you haven't played or run an actual OSR game, or at least not a good one, and you're proposing rules solutions to what are actually aesthetic objections.
I've run many sessions of OSR and played in a couple as well. I see no reason to use thieves and many not to; the two I wrote are just a couple. They are tiresome as a player and as a Referee.

Incidentally, the group I play 3.5 with started with AD&D and learned many of their habits including this one from that game.

>>73534805
I'm not going to use them either way, I'm just explaining why the suggestion falls flat to almost everyone. "Lol yeah every pickpocket on the street is actually a level 5 thief who can magically hide in shadows" just does not work for most people.

>> No.73535927

>>73532969
Thanks for the explanation, but at the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that thieves completely suck at what they're supposed to be good at, for the first 6 levels of play.
A level 6 warrior is a beefy guy, and a level 6 wizard can toast a room with a fireball.
A level 7 thief can do most of the stuff he's supposed to be an expert in doing, on around a 50% chance. And he's still squishy as fuck. Kinda gay.
But hey, I guess that's your opinion and everything.
I like SA&SH's implementation a fair load better

>> No.73536215

Sorry for bringing up something very nonOSR. Does anyone have some cool resources for Stars without Numbers? I might get to run it later this year.

>> No.73536361
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73536361

Most of the SWN-branded resources are from Sine Nomine/SWN. But it's compatible with both OSR adventures reskinned IN SPACE (one of the design goals and reasons for it's B/X class-and-level base), and with Traveller materials, especially on the GM side (Crawford has called SWN his love letter to Traveller, and a number of Trav GMs use his back-end tools without the class-and-level front end).
So the world's your oyster really, but I'm not aware of "cool resources branded as SWN but that don't come up under SWN on drivethrurpg."
The stuff I'd personally most like to run in a sci fi game would require full conversion. Dead Planet for Mothership, Slaughtergrid which is fantasy but should be a corporate-Alien type adventure where the PCs all wake up from cryofreeze and figure out this isn't a normal medbay, Scenic Dunnsmouth IN SPACE, etc. But those are all more work than you're asking about.

>> No.73536960

>>73532437
My game is pretty lethal but it's also a group of 5, 3 of whom are vets, and we started the campaign a couple levels up, so balance has been fine. Ive got several encounters ready that are only slightly prohibitively difficult (with big loot as the reward of course)

>> No.73537015

For me it's using lego pieces when you run out of figurines

>> No.73537147

>>73532783
I was thinking specifically of DDC when I wrote that post. In that game, race is rolled randomly along with ability scores so it isn't the end of the world if demihumans are strictly better than humans for the same reason it isn't a problem that the sixes on dice are strictly better than the ones when rolling ability scores. Dwarves and halflings also have a reduced movement rate which seems like a fair price to pay for infravision to me. Unfortunately elves have no such downside to compensate for infravision and secret door detection.
Now that you mention it, why are thief skills part of their own class instead of nonweapon proficiencies or whatever other equivalent a game uses? It isn't as though sailing a boat, foraging for food and shoeing a horse are more dissimilar to sneaking and picking locks and pockets than they are to each other. Thief skills, while certainly useful for adventuring, are not more necessarily more useful than wilderness or social skills. Are they treated differently purely for historical reasons?
>>73532969
I think you're on to something. Making thief skills borderline supernatural would do a lot to justify the class when compared to wizards and clerics. Heck, why not do the same thing with warriors and allow them to perform borderline herculean feats of athleticism on a favorable roll?

>> No.73537345

>>73532778
these are really nice

>> No.73537439

>>73534085
The problem I'm trying to fix is players taking too long over trivial shit, and arguing over SOP.
It took my group a whole session to look in three rooms and the hallways between them, and there wasn't much there. As a Dm I'm trying to hurry them up with telekinesis but they just fucking squabble and side-plan, and then bitch when I say I'm taking another wandering monster roll for chat time.

>> No.73538133

>>73532437
Backstabs and sneak attacks how do you do em" ?

>> No.73538210

>>73537147
>Unfortunately elves have no such downside to compensate for infravision and secret door detection.
They have iron sensitivity though and that's worse than it seems at a glance.

>> No.73538261

>>73534805
>>73534731
whos this geek ?

>> No.73538568

>>73538210
>iron sensitivity
Oh right, it slipped my mind since afaik they don't have that in any version of D&D.

>> No.73538717

>>73533152
honestly my personal preference is for all PC classes to have something of the supernatural on them, even a basic level 1 Fighter should be the equivalent of several non classed Human soldiers

>>73532783
if we're talking how to use non-human races, yeah the ACKS method of giving each race multiple unique Racial Classes is definitely one good way to do it, Blueholme's approach towards using non-human races is also a rather good one(I've written about this one before I'll fish up my notes on it later)

>> No.73538933

>>73538133
>>73538261
Begone, thoughtsfag. Shoo, shoo!

>> No.73538968

>>73532437
When I ran my OD&D campaign, I ended up tracking the numbers. Accounting for short-timers and deaths alike, about forty percent of characters didn't make it. More if we count "deaths" that were immediately remedied.

Deaths were heavily skewed towards the earliest and most populous legs of the game, so I'd day it felt about right.

>> No.73539336

>>73532437
That art screams Mike Mignola; what's it from?

>> No.73539364

>>73539336
It is Mignola. It's from the Lankhmar series he drew with scripts by Chaykin. They adapted most of the really classic short stories.

>> No.73539423
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>>73539364
Dope, thank you; I'll def check them out

>> No.73539704

>>73533152
I have suggested calling thieves "box men" before, which was an ye olde tymie term for a safe cracker. Please insert hilarious metal gear solid picture at your option.

>> No.73539864
File: 193 KB, 850x628, __original_drawn_by_hisahiko__sample-2c5f3bfadd84c953f6400c7550e68b86.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73539864

Old style /tg/?

Well, you are walking by and see an elf...

>> No.73540207

>>73539864
I make her eat the eggs in the bowl and ask her to pay the content tax.

>> No.73540264

>>73539864
dumb coomer newfag

>> No.73541052

Another day, another #sworddream fag got cancelled.

>> No.73541116

>>73540264
>-oomer posting
>still
Back to /co/ with you.

>> No.73541161

>>73541052
Which one was it this time?

>> No.73541244

>>73539704
What chance do enemies have of noticing a perfectly ordinary cardboard box?

>> No.73541325

>>73541244
Well, what do you think "hide in shadows" represents?

>> No.73542982

More art like >>73528017

even similar would be great!

>> No.73543419 [DELETED] 

>>73538933
As the earth rotates I will return, not just by my own hands but through others posts

>> No.73543558
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73543558

>>73542982

>> No.73543667
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>>73542982

>> No.73543692
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>>73543558

>> No.73543704
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>>73543692

>> No.73544063
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73544063

>>73532437
>Exactly how lethal is your game?

>> No.73544247

>>73544063
When your players drop to 0 HP, they can choose to survive at the cost of exiting the fight via a comically compromising sexual position, like getting their face stuck in barmaid tits? That's a good rule.

>> No.73544273
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>>73543704

>> No.73544548

I prefer sword-as-class.

>> No.73544728

>>73544548
I don't know why but the racial level cap on magic daggers really got me.

>> No.73544731

>>73544548
I'm picturing the sword forcefully possessing a random peasant and dragging them along as a body. Maybe with a cool mask that its newest body always wears. Neato.

>> No.73545012
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>>73544273

>> No.73545091
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73545091

I'm reading through some of the early 40k stuff and it's really interesting how it parallels the development of D&D despite being made a decade later
>very open, skirmish-level game that encourages creativity
>gets hastily designed supplements that change gameplay and push it into a narrower niche
>revised into two forks: One much stricter yet complex and another simpler for kids
>next edition introduces splat bloat

>> No.73545160
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73545160

>>73533997
>>73534637
You guys must have some easygoing players. Mine stopped rolling thieves once they figured out "they suck[ed]". Took about a month. Therefore, I cut them (pic related, lines 18-34). Pic is out of date, I do things a little differently now, but the thief stuff is pretty much the same.

>> No.73545546
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>>73545012

>> No.73545568
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>>73545546

>> No.73545580

>>73545546
This one is great.

>> No.73545584

>>73545091
What happened to the rock and roll aspect of slaanesh ?

>> No.73545611
File: 65 KB, 343x343, A0E0B42E-CED7-4698-875A-626403CECD29.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73545611

>>73545568

>> No.73545756 [DELETED] 

Why is your community so heavily infested by the alt-right?

>> No.73545805

>>73545756
It’s easy to be a big fish in a small pond.

>> No.73545816

>>73545584
People accidentally took the whole grimdark thing seriously, and collectively decided hair metal Slaaneshi weren't tonally consistent with their space wizard elfgame.

>> No.73545866

>>73545756
Why is yours so infested by faggots?

>> No.73545905

>>73545756
I'm going to engage this like you are being sincere even though I suspect you're a rudimentary troll.

Other than Chris Macris of ACKS fame what other notable alt-right presences are there in the OSR currently? RPG Pundit and Venger Satanis don't count since they are not alt-right, really, just guilty of very poor taste and judgement. James Desborough is not an OSR-exclusive designer and spreads his particular brand of idiocy over a non-specific rpg space.

So, who? I'd like to know so I can apply my own analysis.

>> No.73545933

>>73532437
Absolutely love Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. I wish there were more comics because the style and the tales with it was just brilliant

>> No.73546187

>>73545756
>Why is your community so heavily infested by the alt-right?
it's not really, it's just the few who are that way are extremely loud idiots that make it seem like there's more of them than there actually are

>> No.73546413

Anybody happen to have on hand that table with suggested bonus attacks for B/X fighters?
I feel like it was basically +1 attack for every 3 levels but I don't remember. I think it might've been on the same image as one that suggested bonus damage/level instead.

>> No.73546596

>>73541161
Some asian dude.

>> No.73546985

>>73545091
It's kind of what I like about Inquisitor as a ruleset. It evokes the design philosophy of Rogue Trader, very loosely codified rules for creating scenarios, and not necessarily for a balanced game, but it's a little more tuned towards the baroque while remaining a bit more true to its roots (gangers and mercenaries are encouraged to be a bit punky rather than everything being grimdark all the time).

Isn't there a 40k B/X hack floating around somewhere? Seems like it could be pretty sweet.

>>73545584
It's not as much of a statement anymore. Slaaneshi aesthetics thrive on transgression in my opinion, and I don't think people see glam rock, unnatural hair colours and drugs quite the same way as they did in RT days.

>> No.73547009
File: 570 KB, 410x2063, Zak S always wins in the end.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73547009

>> No.73547122 [DELETED] 
File: 39 KB, 720x334, 1591075993342.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73547122

>>73547009
Literally who?
I'm not sure Robert Bohl Games closing has anything to do with Zak. The fact that Zak thinks it does, kept the screenshots, and went out of his way to gloat, is kind of damning.

>> No.73547127

>spell
Troll Charm
Magic-User 1
The next statement the caster makes, no matter how ridiculous or bad faith, will be taken absolutely seriously by all who hear it and fail a save vs magic. The spell does not necessarily make them believe the statement to be true or persuade them in any way, but they will at least treat it as being made in good faith and attempt to argue the opposite rather than simply ignoring or mocking the speaker.
>congratulations /osrg/, you've failed your save yet again

>> No.73547138

>>73547009
Zak didn't win anything. He's just gloating.

>> No.73547379 [DELETED] 

>>73546187
That and it's actually heavily infested by the woke left (at least, the more indie / DIY side is), who in turn see any sign of conservatism as full-on Hitler and so are constantly "discovering" new fascists. This is then magnified when one of the many sex pests in their ranks are then memory holed as allies and instead said all along to have been right wingers (see the hilarious convolutions employed to make Zak S right wing). I'm sure soon it will be discovered that Adam Koebel actually flew helicopters for Pinochet in his spare time.

>> No.73547470 [DELETED] 

>>73545756
I wish anon. The right can shut up and game. the left can't.
For a conservative you don't need to change a single thing or cater in any way (other than the game itself). For the left you need to be aware of 1) Their lines & veils 2)Their emotional state 3) Not to step on anything they deem as bigotic or bad. If you did wrong you won't hear it, nobody has the balls to speak up. Rather they'll feel slighted, stop responding and talk behind your back on a public server for some throw away thing.

Sorry for the rant.

>> No.73547502

>>73547470
t. someone who can't shut up and game

>> No.73547517
File: 1.87 MB, 1177x540, Jousting.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73547517

Jousting: how does it work?

Is there a simple Rock, Paper, Scissors type solution?

I want to have Tourney's be a regular event, as an opportunity for wealth as well as ingratiating PCs with nobility.

>> No.73547529

>>73545756
>america

>> No.73547615

>>73547470
absolutely this

>> No.73547624
File: 171 KB, 600x765, dungeon8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73547624

>>73542982
I'd love to see more, too.

>> No.73547662

>>73547517
Roll it as a typical combat, 1 attack per 'pass'. Roll initiative each round. Higher initiative grants +1 to hit and +1 damage.
The lances are blunted, dealing 1d6 damage.

Earning points (from an online source).
You gain 1 point for striking your opponent's shield.
You gain 1 point for shattering (dealing 5+ damage with) your lance.
You are disqualified if you are knocked from your horse and your opponent is not.
You are disqualified if you kill your opponent's horse.
You are disqualified if you are no longer strong enough to fight.

If you reach 25% of your hit points (rounded down) you must test str or be unseated.

>> No.73547713

>>7354713
>>73547009
>Zak didn’t win anything, but in time everyone loses something and you just lost the game again

>> No.73547740
File: 59 KB, 400x638, Joust NES art.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73547740

>>73547517
Both participants make an attack roll. Higher roll wins the round- three rounds to win. Naturally, Fighters should be the best at Jousting.

Create a subsystem with various weights and values. Strategies like where to hit in the opponents shield or how low to ride in the saddle determine likelihood to get knocked off or knock off your opponent.

Create a simple rock-paper-scissors with trade offs. Fight like a pussy but get a save to avoid being knocked off. Fight like a man and get a good chance to be knocked off but also knock off your opponent. You can also fight like a mad cunt which puts you at risk- get knocked off and you take 1d6 damage. If this kills you, everyone laughs as your character dies in a tragic but funny Jousting accident.

Just use the normal combat system but with AC values representing the horse's skill, Lance as to-hit, and hit points how close you are to getting knocked off each pass.

Use actual rock-paper-scissors or just roll the dice because why spend time making rules over this shit.

Or use
>>73547662 because it's also very cool.

>> No.73547742

>>73547662
I found where I got the point from. This mini game looks great but I didn't have a printer at the time, so I used a simplified (and probably worse) version.
http://riseupcomus.blogspot.com/2019/09/jousting-minigame.html

>> No.73547780

>>73545756
strawman and bait

>> No.73547801
File: 852 KB, 1024x975, E19F2BC5-8D9F-4AF5-AB31-F7BAC3979841.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73547801

>>73532778
Give us some wilderness traveler positions and if I meet you irl I’ll buy you a free beer

>> No.73548207

>>73547662
>If you reach 25% of your hit points (rounded down) you must test str or be unseated.
I like what you've done there. Potential draws possible if unlikely.

>>73547780
It's not really strawman but it's definitely bait, especially since the poster hasn't responded to any of his precious (you)s.

>> No.73548240

>>73547470
>If you did wrong you won't hear it, nobody has the balls to speak up. Rather they'll feel slighted, stop responding and talk behind your back on a public server for some throw away thing.
That sound too specific to be made up.

>> No.73548541

>>73548240
Not him but that's not specific at all. It seems to be that half of my age group acts like this. I hate it frankly and it makes it harder to recruit good players.

>> No.73548667

>>73543558
>that dodgy old pipe-smoking weirdo in the background
Gold, Jerry, GOLD!

>> No.73549185

>>73547517
Use the Chainmail jousting rules, but with the obvious bug fixed. I'm sure there must be an errataed table floating around on ODD74 or K&KA somewhere.

>> No.73550188

It's unreal how much the simple act of what game you choose to roll dice in is being turned into something ideological.

>> No.73550721

>>73550188
Well, when your community appeals to people who prefer D&D without all the coloreds and queers, then your OP copypasta calls out FOEs (which you think are present) and not Nazi-Fucks (who you know are present) it becomes pretty obvious who you’re trying to be welcoming to.
Half the responses to that post were “there are no problems, but obviously we hate the alt-right” and the other half are “no, it’s the left that is bad! They should be driven out” and none of the first group is responding to the second telling them to fuck off, it shows even the first group is disingenuous.

>> No.73550863

>>73550188
>>73550721
Post content.

>> No.73550956

>>73550721
In all seriousness, if you think the OSR has some weird catering to the alt-right why are you in this thread? There's absolutely a big fucking gap between thread meme FOEs and IRL alt-right politics and you choosing to ignore that and go off on a 4chan OP is some serious brain damage.

I probably don't have a great take on this, it's one of the first times I've been in a hobby and looked at some of the progressive stuff being pushed and think WTF. Like sure you can say, WotC, they have bad hiring practices and the DMs guild and OGL are exploitative. I agree. But this idea that the root of D&D is some inherently racist, colonialist, white supremacist thing that is being furthered by ordinary people playing it is just lunacy. Go to 99% of D&D games across the world and you will find no ideological basis to any of that. "Why are you still playing D&D?!" Well, uh, because I have fun playing it with my friends?

>> No.73550988

>>73550956
You're not wrong but you shouldn't reply to trolls. He's just baiting. When you give him effortposts like this you encourge that shit.

>> No.73551018

>>73550956
What’s it gonna take?

Huh?

What’s it gonna take for you to stop paying WotC?

To stop writing shit for D&D?

To stop streaming D&D?

I get it, if this is your job, get your money, whatever.

But again:

What’s it gonna take?

>> No.73551020

>>73551018
Yeah I saw that twitter thread too m8.

>> No.73551039

>>73551018
>>73551020
Honestly this kinda shit makes me fucking *expire* because what are you telling the streamer or content creator to do, go work for fucking Amazon or Tesco or something? Like damn if someone can get paid playing games I think that's one of the least harmful things they could do to themselves and others in our economy. But I recognise that tweet's just a bit of marketing too in some aspects.

>> No.73551054

>>73550956
Once again, you need only look at this thread for example os said racist, colonialist opinions. There’s stuff like that in the last 25 posts. How can you be so blind to it?

>> No.73551063

>>73551020
Link?

>> No.73551086
File: 85 KB, 1102x1100, 0022.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73551086

Reminder: do not respond to bait.

>> No.73551115
File: 150 KB, 554x465, Screenshot_2020-07-04_15-53-52.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73551115

Ok let's stop the shitposting and do a small community thing. Let's do a hexmap. Pic related, let's fill up the hexes and also make a small encounter table.

Here's some advice from mister OS
https://youtu.be/EMl0YQanRWI

>> No.73551242
File: 4.23 MB, 2500x1800, Render_Tease.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73551242

Fresh off the press. Mullen is good again.
Don't know what it is but announcment next week apparently.

>> No.73551389
File: 266 KB, 750x952, it begins.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73551389

Today I will remind them that the OSR will be the last bastion of
>race, it's too problematic now to have hereditary strengths and weaknesses
>alignment, because, there's like, no good or evil, man
>orcs as enemies, because the Mongol expies are racist against Blacks
>drow as enemies, because it's 2020 and matriarchies are lit bro

>>73551115
>hexes aren't numbered
That kinda kills the whole thing

>> No.73551415
File: 167 KB, 564x467, Screenshot_2020-07-04_16-15-44.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73551415

>>73551389
Mistakes unmade

>> No.73551446

>>73551389
>Grandfathered
Woah

>> No.73551593

>>73551415
When you say fill up the hexmap I assume you mean add dungeons, settlements and other locations of interest. That being the case there should obviously be a port at 7, 4 for a start.

>> No.73551760

>>73551593
7,3 is more obvious, better storm protection

>> No.73551805

>>73551593
>>73551760
I would say 6, 5 due to the river and have the road divert to there.

>> No.73551857

>>73547801
Who doesn't like beer?

>> No.73552204

>>73551805
Seconding this. You could add some smaller village(s) upstream if you felt like it, where ranger types live and which maybe used to be the larger of the two places back in the days.

>> No.73552220
File: 46 KB, 960x540, taking fire.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73552220

There would definitely be a village + port at a river mouth, whether there was another one elsewhere or not.
(Unless this is meant to be one mile hexes on a deserted or tribal village island or something.)

>> No.73552238

>>73551242
>CONSOOM

>> No.73552388

>>73551415
0,5
The headwater of the stream/river comes out of a dwarf-carved gate shaped vaguely like a mouth, with room to walk on both sides. Some cave system enlarged by the dwarves lies back there, but it is long deserted and human explorers have not returned.
All forest/jungle: a local bird (or some say local spirit) imitates voices and words, and at night calls for help in desperate tones. The locals ignore it and lock their doors. If you travel or camp at night and get in trouble, help is not coming.

>> No.73552427

>>73552238
I'm a bibliophile! I sear I don't have a problem! There's only five books coming my way right now! Not more and none after that for the rest of the year!

>> No.73552637

>>73552427
>no books for six months
Are you out of your goddamn mind?

>> No.73552678

>>73552637
....I have a big stack that needs to be read. A big, big stack.

>> No.73553162
File: 54 KB, 522x684, 716bB9MGP4L._AC_SX522_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73553162

Do all Old-school games have to be compatible with other material or is an OS game a sword and sorcery kinda game that doesn't pull any punches? Also is it the true genre to feel like a Frazetta Conan work?

>> No.73553202

>>73551415
Why is the road already in? Thirding >>73551805 because you don't make roads just to make roads. Roads come after the things they connect to, or at least during. But >>73551760 has a point too, so probably a settlement in both, probably with a road connecting them. Maybe divert the road so it goes 6,3->7,3->7,4->6,5.

>>73552427
>>73552678
Psh. I've got all of OSE, some of Geist, Mummy 1e, some of GURPS Fantasy, most of CoC and UVG left to read, and coming my way eventually are WoG, all four Hill Cantons books, Downcrawl, Archives of the Sky, On Downtime and Demesnes, Trail of Cthulhu, 13th Age, and Delta Green.

>> No.73553304

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/22907962/

Do you think we could assemble link related to be run with common b/x?

The main source of xp should be killing the trolls or maybe securing trade routes?

>> No.73553663

What are your rules of choice for sanity and madness when you play?
Especially corruption mechanics. I know they are not necessarily very OSR but I don't know what people in the hobby might have done regarding that.

>> No.73553816

>>73553663
I just found this which I'm thinking of including.
https://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2013/05/stark-staring-mad.html

>> No.73553869

>>73553816
Thanks a lot anon,

>> No.73553930

Does anyone know the name of a blog that has stats for like every monster known, even some things from popular culture (like cartoon characters) and folklore? It's an incredibly simple layout, with a dark background has hundreds of entries, and if I remember correctly it's geared towards OSR.

>> No.73554102

>>73553202
how do you survive? What's your reading technique?

>> No.73554119
File: 402 KB, 600x820, bdf.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73554119

>>73551857
Great stuff, anon. Can I translate it to share with my country's OSR scene? Do you want your name or a pseudonym associated with it?

>> No.73554254

>>73554102
Eh, mostly I just let them sit until I have time. I did make it through KAP recently at least, that was mostly just reading after dinner or on lunch breaks for a while. I don't have a lot to do these days. Before quarantine I was bringing books to read on the bus, but that ain't happening any more.

Tbqh I can't say I'm doing that well. That Mummy 1e? That's Mummy: the Curse which I kickstarted back in 2013. It's waiting for me to finish Geist, which I got before then. Someday...

I just like having them.

>> No.73554451
File: 251 KB, 480x360, dungeon master.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73554451

Rolled 4 (1d6)

1. stock dungeon
2. roll on the oc table and start a blog
3. print character sheets, maps
4. play with hexmaps
5. play video games
6. get off the computer and go outside, it's beautiful out for chrissakes

>> No.73554472

>>73553663
Personally I tried them early in my campaign (multiple iterations) and it all sucked. Aside from 1-2 funny instance of people doing something stupid because of their insanity, it was all just a game slower and nobody really cared about it or had fun.

>> No.73554632

>>73553304
It was kind of hilarious, if a little depressing, to see 2013 /tg/ fall for this so easily. It was basically a foregone conclusion that the GM wouldn't deliver because the system doesn't exist and OP was just spitballing the whole time.

Fun concept though. I'm sure we could make something out of it.

>>73553930
Not quite what you're looking for, but close - I'm sure you could get some good mileage from this:
https://www.mythicalcreaturescatalogue.com/blog

>> No.73554699

>>73554472
I kinda just wanted the rules to see how people rolled for it. It's just tied to certain encounters that are meant to show that staying in a certain place mentally breaks you if you stay too long (which explains some of the other encounters in the dungeon).
I don't expect people to actually become long-term insane but I like the breakdown mechanic.

>> No.73555755

>>73554632
>>73554632
>if a little depressing,
for me its actually the opposite: its joyful how we were more open and optimistic. I was there that days, and I still remember some of the threads that stayed with me to this day. Is like we've become too embarrassed to show anything now, like if our words carried lot of weight. I think its because a perception of competition/tension, our ideas must be polished before we show them because they will stay forever linked from some blog.

>> No.73555775

>>73555755
Do people seriously give a damn? It's just a blog. Ideas get reformed and altered all the time.

>> No.73555849

>>73554699
If you play with morale, you could just say have all hirelings/mercenaries break and run away, and tell the players their characters feel uneasy if they fail some kind of check and will have -1 to everything. That should be enough to have them reconsider staying there. Also, playing on the horror side of the exploration, with illusions, visions, etc. should set the mood.

>>73554472
NTAYRT, but that website is very nice. Thanks for sharing.

>> No.73555878

>>73553304
>http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/22907962/

I made an attempt to recreate it once, using Into The Odd, but was disastrous, never ended writing a playable full thing.

The quid of it is that ItO has rules for businesses, and businesses must be the thing around the whole thing turns around: You clear paths from trolls so businesses thrive, or opening routes (rivers, mountains, forests, etc.) The whole thing should behave like a tabletop Transport Tycoon game,

Of course taking troll's treasure should be possible, even incentivized, for investsments at early stages or for paying the first debts. But XP for Gold cannot be kept only by hunting trolls (they might not have much treasure in the first place)

It also can work with players taking charge collectivelly of a business and PCs are workers of that business, in the sense in which if they die, a new rookie takes its place. They don't level as persons, but the whole business levels up instead (from small shop to medieval corp, I mean, guild) with each level up granting your business to hire better guys or train the old ones (higher level PCs)

That will turn into a medieval version of Theme Hospital or Sim City very soon and that can be awesome but is not about dungeons anymore (though one can argue it can be OSR in many ways)

>> No.73556028

>>73555755
frankly speaking I think you're being silly. in the grand scheme of things, things rarely change very much. beware rose colored glasses. Well, not like it really matters if you get nostalgic, just don't kill yourself because memes are superficially different

>> No.73556461

>>73555849
Derp. The second line was meant for >>73554632

>> No.73556610
File: 259 KB, 656x890, medusas.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73556610

What are some monsters that you like from outside the traditional list?

It can be from any blogs, your OC, media or folklore shit

Pic related, from GLOG guy. This monster specifically looks very interesting to use; though I'd make it a little smaller, and allow PCs to survive and reach its nest when it goes back to feed their spawn (any monster treasure should be found there, not on the monster itself)

>> No.73556926

>>73547517
I make it simple. D6 + your levels in Fighter, contested.

>> No.73557064

>>73554632
>https://www.mythicalcreaturescatalogue.com/blog
Yeah not the exact link I was looking for but an awesome inspiration nonetheless!! thank you anon.

>> No.73557250

>>73556610
https://savevsdragon.blogspot.com/2014/09/it-only-took-35-years-new-bx-monster.html
Plus a bunch from my own games, but I haven't written those up.

>> No.73557568

Rolled 3, 4 = 7 (2d4)

>>73556610
I want a pet one

>> No.73558035

>>73554119
Do as thou wilt. No pseudonym, just try to do something nice for someone when you can.

>> No.73558334
File: 58 KB, 481x640, 1593113837313.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73558334

>>73553162
Actually kinda wondering about this too.
I'd love to see a simplified system for casting classic S&S styled spells (IE with rituals, alchemy, and necromancy) instead of just shitting out fireballs

>> No.73558372

Which is more OSR?
A) Running a classic Module like Keep on the Borderlands, but in GURPS
B) Running 3.5e

>> No.73558412

>>73558372
Running GURPS but not playing a classic module.

>> No.73558459
File: 1.29 MB, 2376x1519, osr_cursed_gem.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73558459

>>73532437
>Exactly how lethal is your game? How often does a PC die, on average?
Well over 23 sessions I've played (I think?) the party has lost 14 characters and been wiped out entirely once. But most of the time it's been 2 or more characters dying. So, mildly lethal I guess.
>Do you think that's too much? Too little? Or just right?
It's alright. I even lost a level 4 character last session. Things happen. Some say don't get attached to the character but it's more enjoyable when you are attached to the character and he dies anyway. Makes it even more rewarding when one survives to retire. Personally I wouldn't mind starting B/X characters out at Max hp, or having "minimum hp", because it gets immersion-breaking when you have someone with 1 or 2 hit points. My character dies as easily as a rat. No I don't think so. So having the simple rule of "a character's hp maximum cannot be lower than half the value of his hit die" works fine. Also rerolling all hit dice when you level up. My DM has it happen every session which has led to some fun gameplay.

>> No.73558555

>>73532437
>Exactly how lethal is your game? How often does a PC die, on average?
>Do you think that's too much? Too little? Or just right?
Everybody died at least once in my last game. One of the players was losing a character every other session or so.
We had some great deaths.
>inside a pyramid with a pool of water. Character gets knocked to zero hp by the zombie and falls back into the pool.
>crocodile rises up from the depths, grabs his body and drags it down into the dark.

>> No.73558561

>>73558372

running 3.5. the base rules are very similar to ad&d when casters aren't breaking the game

>> No.73559711

>>73558372
3.5 is not OSR. I hate that I have to preface this with that statement but some of y'all will go ballistic with what I'm about about to say if I don't. I've seen some extreme heights of spergery here over the following: 3.5 can be used to run OSR style games without modifying the core rules in any meaningful way. All you need to do is play core-only, and impose a level limits (between 9-12 at the highest). That is all you need to do to run an OSR style game with 3.5. Later versions of D&D and most other d20 system games can't, however, as they push the superheroics higher and add more rules that fight against OSR style play..

>> No.73560262
File: 198 KB, 1032x1048, Deathmaze-SPI-box-version[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73560262

Been playing a lot of board games over Tabletop Simulator during the lockdown, it's motivated me to pick up an idea I had a while ago.

Most modern 'dungeon crawl' board games seem to be more like miniature skirmish games, so I've been looking at boiling down B/X into a board game. I've found pic related, which is handy to get an idea how this sort of thing was handled back in the day - I'm just curious if any of you guys know of similar old school dungeon fantasy board games that might be worth mining for ideas.

>> No.73560333

>>73558459
>>73558555
When a player character dies, does that player bring in a new character at the same level, a level lower or level 1? If levels have a shallow enough power curve in whichever game you're playing, losing levels might not cause too much internal balance issues but coming from later editions of D&D having a wide spread of character levels makes encounter design a nightmare. Returning at the same level takes a lot of the punch out of death though so I'm not sure what the best way to handle it is.

>> No.73560396

>>73560333
Start over from Level 1

>> No.73560687

>>73560262
Dungeon! ? Literally was made with D&D back in 1973-1974. Not very complicated DESU, and it's probably not what you are looking for but still. I feel a lot of the modern boardgames have been "rpg-fying" themselves in the last few years, so I'd say any kind of rpg-ish boardgame like Gloomhaven, Dark Souls board game, Mice and Mystics, etc. all have stuff you could check. But IMO it all boils down to just a simplified/rigid form of D&D. D&D is just superior when you can manage it.

>> No.73560688

>>73532437
For a moment I thought that OP pic was a heavily stylized Scooby, Shaggy, and Velma.

>> No.73560781

>>73560333
Most OSR games, the power differential is nowhere near as big as it is in later editions. You don't get the AC-and-to-hit-bloat or Saving-Throw-bloat of 3.5, nor do you get the HP-and-damage-bloat that people tell me 5e has. Nor the options-bloat of 3.5 and Pathfinder. You'll be weaker than the other party members, but not that much weaker- and by the time the other party members are high level, as long as you can survive long enough to make it through a dungeon, you'll level up quickly. Due to how the experience curve works, it takes the same amount of XP to get a 1st level character to level 6 as it does to get a 6th level character to level 7. And all of that is assuming even split of XP and treasure. Some groups use a "however much treasure you get is however much XP you get" which means that you can powerlevel a new character or a cleric.

>> No.73560817
File: 87 KB, 588x437, Foghorn.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73560817

>>73560688
>Fafhrd looks like Velma

>> No.73561255
File: 30 KB, 737x416, images (15).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73561255

My games haven't been lethal enough. I keep upping the challenge by increments but the players come through every time, I want to avoid intentionally wiping them.

All part of the learning process, I guess.

>> No.73561472

>>73560333
Always level 1
AYRT, btw

>> No.73562036

>>73560333
>later editions of D&D having a wide spread of character levels makes encounter design a nightmare
>encounter design
>""""encounter design"""" (read: encounter balance)
>encounter balance (read: encounters are created such that the players will win a pitched battle with no casualties 95% of the time. The other 5% is DM fiat with player consent for epic story telling)
FOE GYG

>> No.73562071

>>73560333
It depends. We were playtesting a bunch of shit, so we went with the same level just so we could try all the class abilities.

>> No.73563038

>>73559711
can you elaborate on your experience in this regard? I believe you can emulate an old school feel with 3.5 (and certain other modern systems), but would like to know exactly what you mean.

>> No.73563138

>>73562036
By encounter design I mean statting the monsters so they'll threaten the high level characters without trivially killing the low level characters.
I do try to design adventures so that characters won't die unless their players either make a serious mistake, takes a deliberate risk or gets seriously unlucky but that's a different design problem than having a mixed level party creates.

>> No.73563275

>>73563038
He shouldn't, as it's off topic for this thread. Discuss it in the 3.pf general.

>> No.73563455
File: 550 KB, 1066x1457, 1b89d470808e0d6d90b6d84b11ca07b2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73563455

Sharing a set piece that went over well with my gaming group a while back.

Context is they have come across a tomb which they want to loot, which has extremely cramped + twisting corridors.

The party has broken out knives and daggers because they know they get penalized for using too big weapons in cramped conditions.

Inside the tomb there are sliding doors. The corridors are cramped enough that sliding a door in one corridor creates a wall in another.

When they get to the heart of the tomb they are attacked by a couple skeletons which have big DR vs piercing weapons, but are weak against bludgeoning.

The PCs decide to retreat back to the mouth of the tomb where they can use bludgeoning weapons and 3:1 the skeletons rather than 1:1 them, and are suddenly surprised the path out is different than the path in because of which doors they've moved around.

>> No.73563639

So, /osrg/, as you know, there are a few popular supplements that use skills. Veins of the Earth, for example, as it's based on LotFP, has the climbing/abseiling system that relies on there being a "climbing" skill. I think the systems of caves in Veins are very cool and would like to use them; however, I didn't start with a skill system and don't really want to tack one on just so that the party has a climbing skill.

What methods have you used when adapting something that calls for a skill roll like that?

>>73563455
This is cool, I like this. Throwing the expectations of the party is always fun.

>>73563275
Shoo.

>> No.73564062

>>73563639

Yeah, was quite pleased how it turned out.

Water features are another dungeon design set piece that can be used to similar but more dramatic effect.

Have the party for example explore a split-level dungeon area with lots of bridges and channels to navigate and later let them fill the channels with water to access new areas easier. Or do the reverse and drain them.

Its a bit zelda/metroid/castelvania, but it allows you to reward PCs by letting the unlock areas they had to skip before, which has an appeal, and lets you re-use maps with a twist so back tracking isn't as boring.

>> No.73564113

How do you handle withdrawing/fleeing from combat and chasing after a fleeing enemy?

>> No.73564131

>>73532437
can someone link the unedited OP art?

>> No.73564203

>>73563639
>What methods have you used when adapting something that calls for a skill roll like that?
It depends why you aren't using a skifll system to begin with but here's how I'd handle it based on why I wouldn't, given that I'm not familiar with that particular module.
If the climb is reasonable for fit adults, player characters can do it, given enough time to move carefully. No one is interested in the story of the hero who died to an unlucky tumble when nothing else was going on. If they want to do anything that's daring and risky, for example leaping a wide chasm without a good running start then call for a strength or agility check to do it. I'd give warriors and thieves a bonus to reflect the physicality of the action falling more closely within their skill set than magic users or any characters with an appropriate background like acrobat or mountaineer. I'd also make sure an ability roll like that isn't a bottleneck so that players looking for ways to mitigate risk at the cost of resources and time can do so. For example, there's a tree that can be downed to form a bridge, a thin hard to notice ledge that can be shimmied across instead of leaping, or the right equipment, in this case a grappling hook and length of rope, can negate the danger. Perhaps nothing behind the chasm is necessary to complete the adventure so the party can avoid the risk by foregoing whatever treasure or other advantage they'd have gained by taking it. Be open to other ideas your players come up that could reasonably work. No one likes playing "guess what the dm is thinking." If there's a dangerous obstacle that can't be avoided in any way, it's just a frustrating arbitrary drain on player resources. When a player character takes hit, the player should think "In hindsight I could have avoided this." or "This was worth what I'm getting for it." not "that was arbitrary."
1/2

>> No.73564219

>>73564203
Once there's a high pressure situation like combat or a pressing time limit, slowly safely traversing the caves is no longer an option. If the party had the foresight and resources to set up ropes for quick scaling and repelling when it was safe quick traversal might still be possible but otherwise they'll have to deal with the impassible terrain some other way or even use it to their advantage if circumstances allow them to make ranged attacks across a chasm their enemies can't traverse.
Bottom line: if there shouldn't be a skill roll because it would be boring, don't require a skill roll even if the module says to. If the skill roll presents the players with an interesting trade off, make sure that it can be avoided and there's a reason to entice the characters not to avoid it.
2/2

>> No.73564441

>>73564113
Generally fleeing and regrouping is more interesting than being wiped out in a last stand, so when the player characters flee I look for reasons that it would be reasonable for them to get away, especially if the characters do something to make their own escape. Intelegent enemies likely aren't motivated by pure bloodlust but instead by self preservation or greed. If the party ditches something valuable, orcs are likely all too happy to take it and let them go. Anything that would make pursuit dangerous would also work. If the party makes a fighting retreat, moving backwards while keeping their weapons ready and firing projectiles, orcs might very well not pursue them to avoid risking further casualties. Caltrops work great for this since they make pursuit that much more annoying. Even mindless enemies might not want to kill the player characters at any cost. Undead or constructs might be bound to their source of power and unable or unwilling to stray from it for long or simply be ordered to guard an area. They might not be as quick as the player characters so even if they pursue catching them is unlikely so long as they don't stop fleeing before losing them.
1/2

>> No.73564503

>>73564441
In the case of antagonists fleeing, I'll assign groups of monsters a morale value based on their disopline and leader's charisma. I roll against it, modified by circumstances like numerical advantage and particularly terrifying or demoralizing conditions, when the first HD worth of enemy is lost (even if it's not enough to actually kill any), when half of the total HD is lost or incapasitated and finally when three quarters of total HD is lost or incapasitated and when a leader is incapasitated. If they fail, they flee. Even in large groups, as soon as a few combatants break away it causes a chain reaction that routes the whole force. In some rare circumstances, for example well drilled orc soldiers fighting besides pressganged goblin slaves, I'll keep different morale value for the different groups of enemies and roll them seperately. Seeing inferior allies flee is enough to cause the braver monsters to roll a morale check and seeing braver monsters flee will almost always cause inferior monsters to flee as well without a check (but exceptions are imaginable).
Intelegent monsters will use whatever tricks available to them to cover their retreat, be they parting shots, special movement abilities or relevant equipment. If the player characters seem merciful and retreat seems hopeless or particularly dangerous, monsters may surrender instead.
2/2

>> No.73564529

>>73551389
>Sanity check

Chaosium sjw fags btfo'd

>> No.73564542

>>73564113

Fast things (horsemen, wolves) generally catch slower things (men, orcs) who in turn catch slower things (dwarfs, halfings, children).

For the slower thing to get away they should put some obstacle in the way of pursuer else they get caught or find some way to hide. This could mean the character jumping in a river or down a gully or swamp to mitigate horse advantage, or running back towards friendly lines so enemy can't follow without getting engaged, or safety of a public street in broad daylight, or closing a door if thing chasing can't open doors.

If it is two same speed creatures running on a plain with no obstacles or chase-end conditions I use the fatigue rules from Hackmaster:

Basically is a competitive ability check roll modified by encumbrance, armor, and wounds. If escapee wins they escape, if loses they are caught and gain exhausted condition and must fight, get cut down, or surrender.

>> No.73564564

>>73564503
If you just meant how do you resolve a chase, if there's a nontrivial difference in speed, after relevant magic and mundane tricks have been used, the faster party succeeds. If there's not it becomes an opposed contest of stamina in open terrain or agility in difficult terrain. Having a difference of knowledge of local geography might give one party an advantage that allows a fleeing party to escape after opening a smaller distance or a pursuing party to catch the fleeing party while it is slowed by confusion caused by rushed navigation. Any group would be very reckless to rush into an unknown part of a dungeon or any dangerous area, especially when pursuing an enemy that might be leading them into an ambush! Circumstances may chase pursuers to voluntarily allow the opposing party to escape rather than assume the danger involved in pursuit.
3/2

>> No.73564939

>>73564113
>Withdrawing/fleeing
Characters can make a fighting withdrawal (move away from combat at 1/2 MV speed) or flee (move away from combat at full speed, monsters have +2 to-hit and ignore shields)
Monsters will usually pursue unless they have reason not to.
Treasure can be dropped for intelligent monsters, 50% will stop to pick it up. Ditto for food and unintelligent monsters.
Depending on a few factors, breaking sightlines might cause pursuit to stop.

>> No.73565261
File: 36 KB, 640x775, sad cat bed.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73565261

What do you do when you've lost all interest in tabletop after Corona-virus fun time ruined all RL groups forever?

>> No.73565427

>>73565261
write a book?

>> No.73565495

>>73565261
A game I've been preparing for a while is gonna have to be shifted online since we're not gonna be meeting up any time soon. Been thinking of how I can best set things up so it's as smooth as possible.

>> No.73565498

>>73565261
I'm making a megadungeon so my group has a ton of readily available content to adventure through once we start doing irl sessions again.

>> No.73565589

What kind of alteration to Cleric's XP progression would you make if removing Turn Undead?

>> No.73565684
File: 126 KB, 564x752, main-qimg-b83609264acfe8cbc6f8340317a07c73.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73565684

How to horse-archer?

>> No.73566138

What are your rules for building a good encounter table?

>> No.73566166

>>73566138
Wandering monsters encounters or all encounters in general?

>> No.73566167

>>73532437
>How lethal is your game?
I would say a character died every other session to every session on average so far, but the game I ran was pretty bad due to me being new to OSR.

>> No.73566185

>>73566166
Well... Both I guess.
I'm running a hexcrawl so both wilderness and dungeon wandering monsters are relevant to me.

>> No.73566258

>>73566185
The most important rule for me is to make changes to the table as the game progresses. If the players destroy the orc lair, then orcs get taken off the table. Things like that.

To create a wilderness table, I just spend a while and write down every creature they could conceivably encounter in the wilderness. Then I write numbers in the margin and turn it into a d100 table. Then I do 101-150 for specialty monsters e.g. if players are near a river, my 101-150s will be river encounters and I'll roll d100+50

>> No.73566269

>>73566185
Whenever I write regular encounters on a list (usually 20) I try to hit a few benchmarks.

First, a Dragon (doesn't have to be a literal dragon, but a powerful enemy that is well signposted in advance and guards a valuable treasure)
Second, a freebie. I like to have something like a minor magic item, a bit of treasure, or a place to rest and recover supplies found pretty easily. It's a reward for a lucky roll- usually it will be something just tucked under a rock or whatever.

Third, some sort of intelligent NPCs in large enough numbers or danger that you can't just beat them up. Could also be a town.

Fourth, a trap gauntlet or locked chest/door to give the Rogue a moment to shine.

Fifth, a magical puzzle or phenomena for the Wizard to shine.

>> No.73566374
File: 201 KB, 625x863, magic-mouth1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73566374

Hey for the one or two people who were wondering about the generate as you go Megadungeon/Hexcrawl I'm working on, I posted it on my new blog, link under next spoiler

https://blatheringsofabefuddledbugbear.blogspot.com/

>> No.73566379

>>73565684
SCHUT WHILE ON HOARSE.

>> No.73566428

>>73565684
Counts as light horse. Cannot move and attack on the same turn without incurring heavy penalty.

>> No.73566436

>>73565589
If we're talking B/X Cleric is still pretty busted good, so see how it feels with no alteration first. They already level up extremely quickly. Remember Gary hated Turn Undead so much he often gave undead amulets of resist turning.

>> No.73566460

>>73565589
If we're talking Basic, clerics are pretty cheap as it is. Honestly, you could probably leave them where they are.

>> No.73566478

>>73566436
>>73566460
Well, that was downright creepy.

>> No.73566644

>>73566258
>>73566269
Thanks anons

>> No.73566793

>>73566436
>>73566460
Hivemind.

>> No.73566847

>>73566436
>>73566460
Thank you, hivemind. My question is answered, and my mind is one step close to the union.

>> No.73566890

>>73566847
JOIN US
JOIN US

>> No.73567073

>>73566436
>>73566460
I'm the real me, you're the wanna-be me... me

>> No.73567123
File: 112 KB, 954x1300, skeleton-head-earphones-22418008.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73567123

/osrg/ has good music picks for dungeons so I want to ask you what soundscape would fit for ASE? I'm thinking something minimalist rather than the usual dark horror theme of dungeon synth. Nostalgic driven.
https://youtu.be/4_Ag3q5N1s8
https://youtu.be/rse22LXgZTM
https://youtu.be/8ZTWL7xSDpY
https://youtu.be/QN_RSi5qo2w
https://youtu.be/2Md2zRv0P-4

>> No.73567179

>>73567123
Soviet 'spacewave' synth

>> No.73567226

>>73567179
A little too "loud". Doesn't work well as background sound.

>> No.73567254

>>73564113
I'm not interested in playing out a square-by-square "you move, enemy moves, you move..." chase through the dungeon's corridors (even less so if the faster party always catches the slower party unless unless slowed down somehow, that's boring). So instead I abstract it. Both parties roll 1d20 + (combat move speed/10), and whoever beats the other by 10+ accomplishes their goal (i.e. catching up or evading; assuming no major head start), otherwise the chase continues and moves through the dungeon/area. Obviously modifiers apply.

>>73566138
1. Quality over quantity. You don't need three different dinosaur types or four kinds of evil humanoids. Focus on one and try to make it interesting and re-usable. Sub-tables (for "what the monster wants", "what's the monster doing", etc) can help.
2. Have a vague idea of why you're including the result. (Got a specific mental image in mind? Maybe it's a way for you to make some setting lore/themes gameable? Or maybe you're putting a dragon in there because you fucking love dragons.)
3. Make your areas come to life. IMO it's better not to reuse the same "d100 swamp encounters" for every swamp in your game. What makes this swamp special? Give it its own encounter table and tailor the results for it, even if it means going down to just d10 results.
4. Weighted tables are cool in theory but it's a shitty idea to put mundane stuff at the forefront and hide your really interesting results behind a 1-in-20 roll. Your players aren't going to make fifty treks through the same area unless it's a megadungeon, they might not even make five, so design for good sessions instead of designing for verisimilitude.

>> No.73567353
File: 35 KB, 640x519, 1588800810934.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73567353

>>73567123
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AdvoKDPnLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP6xyspEqwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWum-wI9THw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-AHuPd0SE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9gBiWNYvsU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFa7uWkQDGY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxmuz6l48Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKgGUX2wX0

blessings of zoi upon you

>> No.73567493
File: 136 KB, 600x932, 10686.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73567493

>>73564131

>> No.73567749

>>73566138
>>73567254
Oh, I forgot:
5. Reuse concepts and cross-reference your material to make your game world cohesive
For example if you've added a crystal-men dungeon somewhere, you could introduce crystal-men to the nearby wilderness's random encounter table. And since crystal-men are a thing in your game now, might as well have a different tribe show up as a random encounter in a separate area.
Similarly, if one of the dungeons you're using has a deposit of something called "noctalite ore" as treasure, then you could add noctalite-hunting prospectors to another region's random encounter table, and maybe the goblins roaming a different location could have an idol carved out of noctalite as treasure.

>> No.73567800
File: 16 KB, 162x197, deidre.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73567800

Was not!Alpha Centauri OSR setting ever attempted? With faction dynamics, bizarre planet, and paying more than a lip service to "science" in "science fiction"?

>> No.73567832

>>73567800
sounds like more of a GURPS d100 or simulationist games in the ballpark thing.
folks here are addicted to huffing gonzo shrooms when it comes to content creation

>> No.73567842

Anyone got opinions on Whitehack? I read it while looking for B/X thief options and it looks pretty cool.

>> No.73568195
File: 46 KB, 800x800, spear-warrior-guardian-knight-fantasy-medieval-action-rpg-game-character-isolated-icon-vector-illustration-122624077[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73568195

>>73566374
Neat. I'm always eager to see solo stuff

>> No.73568227

Then
>D&D is far too simple! I'm going to take the most complex edition and add quadratic equations!

Now
>D&D is far too complex! I'm going to take the most simple edition and cut half the rules!

What went wrong?

>> No.73568269
File: 68 KB, 311x445, False OSR Enthusiast.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73568269

>>73566374
>My opportunities for actual OSR play are low
>If you want to try it for yourself or are interested in the tools I've used, I got a list right here*
>Knave

>> No.73568339

>>73567800
Be the change you want to see, anon. There's a bunch of non-gonzo sci-fi out there, but dedicated osr setting? Don't think so.

>> No.73568346
File: 18 KB, 162x197, AC_Fac_Ldr_005.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73568346

>>73567832
>sounds like more of a GURPS d100 or simulationist games in the ballpark thing.
Yeah, there's an official GURPS SMAC supplement. I never played GURPS, though, and doubt I ever will, unless I wanna stroke myself with one-man plays.
>folks here are addicted to huffing gonzo shrooms when it comes to content creation
I can see it working, however. An unpopulated (on the surface) planet that becomes a playground for a dozen or so factions, all hellbent on unearthing the secrets it might hold, mixed with somewhat intelligent science-fiction -- nothing about it stands in opposition to OSR mechanics and gameplay focus, imo.

>> No.73568396

>>73568227
>What went wrong?
Players want more complicated rules to empower themselves and protect them from bad DMS (are there ANY rules in WotC D&D that aren't skewed in favor of player character success?)
DMs want less complicated rules that allow them to do what they want without the social contract of an agreed ruleset chaining them down (no more "wtf DM I designed my character around using these rules you can't just throw them out!")

>> No.73568419

>>73564203
>>73564219
I wrote out this whole thing about how handwaving the climb checks in VotE wouldn't work, because e.g.
>No one is interested in the story of the hero who died to an unlucky tumble when nothing else was going on
is patently untrue for VotE. That's kind of the point of the climbing system- it would be meaningless without risk of death. But then I took another look at it and realized that the climbing rules don't actually use the climb skill, so I guess that's going to be a "never mind". (Though I guess it would still apply for other systems...)

That said,
>not familiar with [VotE]
How on earth are you not familiar with Veins of the Earth? It's basically the single best OSR supplement there is. It's worth every penny I spent on it, for the climbing and cave generation alone. Also, not a module.

>> No.73568584
File: 590 KB, 1164x1600, Peter Jones Robot Fight.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73568584

>>73567842
I read it; liked it; kept running D&D for my D&D game.
It is though exactly what I would use for any of these sci fi, post-apoc, modern horror, criminals, WWII, SMAC, etc. games that people talk about making OSR hacks for.
>>73567800
>>73568346
It never struck me as OSR, as opposed to just a planetary sf setting.
Could be done though. XP for returning wilderness resources to base, for exploration, and a major award for securing artifacts.
Tech tree and gear list would be a lot of work. I wouldn't look for a literal translation but it's a big enough deal in the game I'd be disappointed by handwaving it and having a short and reskinned gear list.

>> No.73568697

>>73566374
Three. Followed.

>> No.73568732

I know that Self Shilling Saturday was yesterday but I just finished putting this in words. Its about when you remove ability scores because they're pretty useless, but later you think twice and remove all the game but for those fucking scores.

https://alchemistnocturne.blogspot.com/2020/07/minimalistic-d-lite-part-v-no-class-no.html

>> No.73568851
File: 548 KB, 736x786, bigtimetommy.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73568851

True oldschool gaming comes from drawing the map yourself rather than the referee spoonfeeding you with fog-of-war or map-reveal.

>> No.73568949

Request to the next OP. Please put the following into it instead of the original sentence.
>less emphasis on linear adventure plots and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency and mapping the dungeon yourself.
I promise, it will keep the FOE out.

>> No.73569033

>>73568949
>no mention of mechanical compatibility
no anon you are the FOEs

>> No.73569113

>>73568227
I realized it was a lot more fun to do less prep and leave more things up to the dice.

>> No.73569130
File: 1.50 MB, 900x1298, b4fe8573bbb1c918a721ea0e2297b9aa.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73569130

>>73532437
>If you are new to the OSR, welcome!
Thank you, /osrg/.
As someone who has only played modern rpgs (Dnd 3.5e ownwards), I have been curious about OSRs and thinking of giving them a go. I'd like for someone to share their opinions regarding these things
>does story and roleplay take backseat to meticulous exploration?
>is combat rare and deadly?
>how long does a character usually survive in an OSR campaign?
>does an OSR campaign revolve solely around exploration, loot and puzzles; if so, what purpose do various settings and world building serve?
>why do you personally prefer OSR over new games?

>> No.73569190

>>73569033
You are posting in the FOE thread then.
Tell me about your mapping anon. You make your players map right?

>> No.73569253

>>73568227
You encounter a situation and you think: "it'd be cool to have rules to cover this." And adding rules for that may well make that specific thing more interesting, at lest in the short term, and you really haven't added that much extra complexity to the game. Now do that a hundred times for a hundred different specific circumstances and you now have an unwieldy pile of garbage.

>> No.73569272

>>73569113
You got it!

>> No.73569395

>>73569130
>does story and roleplay take backseat to meticulous exploration?
Depends what you mean by "story". If by "story" you mean the kind of pre-planned adventures that most modern D&D has, yes, that doesn't as much have a place here. But if by "story" you mean interaction and development, that definitely has a place here.
>is combat rare and deadly?
I would definitely say it's pretty deadly in my version, but I use pretty unforgiving rules.
>how long does a character usually survive in an OSR campaign?
Depends how lucky you are... the party I run for has lost more than half as many characters as there have been sessions, but many sessions go by without a character loss and many lost characters are low level.
>does an OSR campaign revolve solely around exploration, loot and puzzles; if so, what purpose do various settings and world building serve?
No. But even if it were- settings and world-building serve to give interest to exploration and treasure. And later on, to give you a world to play in for the demesne game.
>why do you personally prefer OSR over new games?
As a Referee, because it allows me creativity to play with the rules and experiment, and be creative without any need to create extensive stat-blocks. Like if I want to play a 3.5 game, if I want to create a new monster, I have to stat it out which can take a while. I imagine 5e is similar. In OSR, I just give it some hit dice and whatever unique ability, maybe a morale score but half the time I just wing it. I can even improvise new enemies when I need to. Also, less looking stuff up in books and less worrying about weird builds.

Oh- and it gives purpose to planning and will hopefully someday get to the domain game.

As a player, it just goes quicker, at least compared to 3.5. Plus, it allows a lot more creativity for the Referee, and that usually works out well. Like in one game I've played in, the Ref replaced (some?) wands with shrunken heads in jars so that other people could use them.

>> No.73569483

>>73568851
>>73568949
I agree however if you're playing online then the fog-of-war thing seems so convenient that it's almost mandatory.

>>73569113
If anything I do more prep for osr style games. Making my megadungeons takes of tons of time to make them well. I can run wotc D&D in my sleep in comparison.

>>73569130
>does story and roleplay take backseat to meticulous exploration?
Kinda. The exploration is necessarily there while the roleplay is down to the players and the story emerges from gameplay.
>is combat rare and deadly?
Nah. Common but unbalanced. Can be deadly, can be a cakewalk.
>how long does a character usually survive in an OSR campaign?
Hard to say. It'll vary but basically death is just an accepted outcome of gameplay.
>does an OSR campaign revolve solely around exploration, loot and puzzles; if so, what purpose do various settings and world building serve?
No it doesn't, just mostly to do with those things. Settings provide creatures, places and items available in the world so they could potentially thoroughly change the gameplay.
>why do you personally prefer OSR over new games?
As a DM nu-school games are mostly boring for me now because they're predictable for the most part. I like not knowing what's going to happen in any given session. Also just a faster way to play with less messing around in character gen. Also players just seem less entitled when playing old school games in my experience.
>>73569395
Basically agree with all of this.

>> No.73569485

>>73569395
>demesne
negro why can't you just spell it domain?

>> No.73569489

>>73568851
Agreed.

Nothing like a party used to a rolling map entering a maze-like section without marking down where they've been or mapping how they got there and getting really lost.

If you really need a map for something tactical just draw the bits they presently can see and erase it after.

>> No.73569546

>>73569483
>>73569395
Thank you for the detailed clarification, much appreciated. So, from what I understand, a modern game tries to do everything - exploration, combat, roleplay, character interaction, narrative, and exposition which makes the systems seem unwieldy and cumbersome to /osrg/ folks.

OSRGs are like roguelikes. They keep their focus on the meat of the campaign, which is exploration and combat, anything else is basically side dressing that has little affect on the former. OSRG therefore simplify the rule and streamline systems because they cater solely to combat and exploration and don't try to do everything.

Have I got it?

>> No.73569558

>>73568851
I tried doing theater of the mind and making my players do mapping but my players have become entitled after having luxury paid roll20 maps with dynamic lighting, colored and detailed maps and want to go back to 5e on top of it all.
It doesn't help that I'm unfamiliar with a coherent description procedures so my descriptions were pretty awful. Shit like
>passage way goes 30 ft east, then there's openings north and south, then the passage continues another 30ft east
With a lot more stuttering and reusing terms that further confuse it all.

>> No.73569667

>>73569546
That sounds pretty much right

>> No.73569822

>>73569546
>exploration and combat, anything else is basically side dressing that has little affect on the former
>Have I got it?
That's mostly true except you should keep in mind that players are encouraged to use their own initiative to pursue their own goals and use their creativity to solve problems as the DM will often use rulings over rules. Does that make sense?

>> No.73569896

>>73569822
>Does that make sense?
Could you perhaps elaborate with an example?

>> No.73570009

>>73569130
>does story and roleplay take a backseat to meticulous exploration?
No, story and roleplay happen THROUGH exploration. We do roleplay and we do tell stories in our games, but they're the stories of adventurers crawling for ancient treasures.
Why are they going after these treasures? Who's trying to stop them? What's at stake? These questions create the context through which storytelling and roleplay occurs.

>is combat rare and deadly?
You mileage may vary, like our resident KLOWN says. Even in the OSR, there are groups that like having combat.

>how long does a character usually survive in an OSR campaign?
Again, that's very particular to each gaming group. I rarely have PCs die in my games, but my players are fully aware I won't save them if they do something stupid.

>does an OSR campaign revolve solely around exploration, loot and puzzles?
>what purpose do various settings and world building serve?
A setting is only as good as the adventures that happen in it. Rich world building only serves a purpose if you can bring it to the table and have the players interact with it. If your world building doesn't facilitate play, it's only an info dump.

>why do you personally prefer OSR over new games?
Because it freed me to focus on adventure. I spent a long time playing, but not running, complex systems like D&D 3.whatever and World of Darkness. But when I discovered the OSR, without the burdens of epic storytelling and complex rulesets, I was able to put challenges in front of my players for them to solve with their creativity.

>> No.73570112

>>73569558
I very much experience this problem myself however there is actually some guidance with the Rules Cyclopedia I have.
>Use the same terms in descriptions, and try to describe room details (size of the room, exits, creatures, other contents) in the same order each time. If the players become familiar with certain often-used terms, they can map more easily.
>Some common terms for corridors are:
>Side passage (or sideroad): A corridor branches off to one side, but the main corridor continues.
>Four-way intersection: Corridors branch off to both sides of the main corridor.
>T-intersection: The main corridor ends at an intersection where corridors continue left and right.
I'd like to also say I think the WebDM youtubers are low key osr lovers. They mention the role of the Mapper in this video. https://youtu.be/lo0gn2DAlkQ

>>73569896
Sure so I had a player who was a magic-user (I was running BECMI) and she got her hands on some mutant lizard-men eggs. I'd designed this lizard-men subspecies as an alternative form that hatches in variable form based on environment. She didn't really know that but was experimenting with the eggs and placed one within a jar of trolls blood that she had taken from a troll while hunting them a few sessions previous. I ruled that this made the hatchling part troll and indeed he would become more troll as he grew. So basically she ended up with a pet troll-shark-lizardman which she called 'Clammy'. She then decided she was going to breed herself an army of monsters... fucking wizards man. But there's an example of a player pursuing their own goals.
Anyway in that same game one player dropped a burning rope-and-wood elevator onto some unsuspecting wight's below. That's a creative use of the environment to deal with what would normally be a simple combat scenario.

>> No.73570246
File: 1.33 MB, 755x959, maad scryer.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73570246

How would you adjust the spell lists for a more Conan/sword and sorcery feel?

>> No.73570279

Did anyone else play with d100 Non-Weapon Proficiency back in the day/currently? I'm considering having it in my campaign (3 players and a DM) but I don't know if I'm just fawning over nostalgia.

I remember it being immensely satisfying spending skill points and getting better at my characters dream of making Masterwork weapons, but it was a very slow campaign. My old DM sadly lost most of his stuff in a Hurricane and doesn't have copies of the system to give me, so I'd be cobbling something together.

>> No.73570470

>>73570112
>guidance with the Rules Cyclopedia
Gonna check that out. Thank you.

>> No.73570794

>>73570009
>>73570112
I see, thanks

>> No.73570918
File: 555 KB, 967x1151, Sunday game map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73570918

Put this together for a game, smaller than I usually go with for maps.

>> No.73571083

>>73569546
>a modern game tries to do everything - exploration, combat, roleplay, character interaction, narrative, and exposition which makes the systems seem unwieldy and cumbersome to /osrg/ folks.
>They keep their focus on the meat of the campaign, which is exploration and combat, anything else is basically side dressing that has little affect on the former.
Not really. The issue with modern D&D versions isn't that they have all of those features- OSR games do too. It's that they try to codify it and even more so how they codify it- with fiddly rules for things that are better handled by the GM.

As an example, take combat. You said:
>OSR games [...] cater solely to combat and exploration
as a contrast to modern games. In my experience, combat is de-emphasized significantly in OSR games contrasted with 3e and 5e. Where in 5e you might* have dozens of fiddly rules about combat, and in 3.5 it's probably closer to hundreds, OSR wraps it up pretty quickly. Combat is quick and lethal. My last game I ran we had a combat that lasted 6-8 rounds or so, and took "a long time" for an OSR combat, so probably about 20 minutes. The entire game session lasts about 2-3 hours. In the 3.5 game I play in, we've had similarly 6-8 round combats last 4 hours just on the combat. Admittedly the 3.5 game is much higher level, but still, 4-hour combats are just not fun for me.

In OSR it's not about interacting with the mechanics, it's about interacting with the world.

*I have never played or read anything 5e, so any comments about it are assumptions based on what other people say.

>> No.73571147

>>73570918
Are the black lines roads anon? Do you mind if I steal this map?

>> No.73571196
File: 558 KB, 967x1151, Sunday game map.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73571196

>>73571147
Yeah they're roads, go ahead and take it if you like it, I'd be flattered. I just added a couple things, like a port in that island there and another castle in the center-west mountains.

>> No.73571227

>>73568419
>How on earth are you not familiar with Veins of the Earth?
Everyone's got to start somewhere anon. I've got a lot of experience with later editions of D&D but I've come to the realization that all the extra rules do more to restrict the game than they do to create interesting trade offs. Most of the time they just restrict what is possible because codifying weird tricks as effective inevitably leads to them being spammed which is as boring as 'I attack' every round on top of being implausible. I'm branching into OSR because I expect it will avoid this and many other problems that come from sprawling complexity.
>That's kind of the point of the climbing system- it would be meaningless without risk of death.
Uncertainty is the only way to create tension and death is the highest widely available stake. That doesn't mean that the threat of death improves a game in all circumstances. To reduce it to absurdity, no game would be improved by a 1% death by unavoidable spontaneous combustion chance every turn. I'm reminded of a certain CoC adventure taking place high in the Himalayas. The scenario started with a series of climbing checks to make the ascent (and refresh the players' memory of the climbing rules) before the mythos elements were encountered. In this particular play through, a series of unfortunate fumbles sent the entire party tumbling to their deaths within five minutes of starting the module. The players all had a good laugh at the absurdity before rolling up new characters but emergent humor aside, it was a waste of time. For a risk to be interesting, it has to be willingly assumed by the players and for them to do that there needs to be an incentive.

>> No.73571305
File: 156 KB, 1062x568, dwarven mine.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73571305

>>73571196
Thanks, i'm going to introduce my young brother to RPG's and this looks ideal, not too big, nothing too fancy. A few mines too, i'll squeeze in at least one 'this is no mine, its a tomb' moment.

>> No.73571355

>>73535743
>I'm not going to use them either way, I'm just explaining why the suggestion falls flat to almost everyone. "Lol yeah every pickpocket on the street is actually a level 5 thief who can magically hide in shadows" just does not work for most people.
nobody is making this claim except for you, delusional little man with no game.

>> No.73571404

>>73571305
Yeah I've been using the Wilderness Survival map as-is for a while, but now that I've been using it for a while the infrastructure and resources for the settlements seemed a bit lacking.* So when I make my own maps I always put in at least three tiles of farmland nearby, usually a mine if it's close to the mountains, and when there's rivers or lakes putting something near there so there can be irrigation channels and lumber lines, or whatever it's called when you float wood downriver.
*That's not to say I run it entirely as is, my map is populated with various orc tribes, a few dragon lairs, a couple giants living in the mountains, regions of forest where ogre tribes live all spread out, etc.

>> No.73571453
File: 138 KB, 623x480, 1593319183270.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73571453

>>73571404
What program do you use?

>> No.73571492

>>73571355
Okay, the part about level perhaps not, although that is implied by the rules. But when people think "thief" they think "someone who steals stuff" not "person who can magically hide in shadows". I.e. the part I was concerned with.

Anyway, I have a game I've been running for two years, another one which I started but was put on hold while one of my players was in grad school, I play in a third at the local game store, and I'm starting a solo play game for myself because I have excessive free time these days. Plus my non-OSR game as well, but that's a different story.

>> No.73571542

>>73571453
For mapmaking? Hexographer. I've been using the free version for years and bought it earlier this year, haven't told much difference besides not being asked to buy the program anymore.

When it comes to dungeons I use Illwinter Floorplan Generator, available on Steam.

>> No.73571708

>>73571227
Not that anon, but anon, why don't you go away and read Veins of the Earth before commenting on it's climbing/cave crawling rules? I broadly agree with your position in general, but it's nonsensical as applied to Veins. This whole back and forth is not helping anyone in this thread.

>> No.73571976
File: 318 KB, 1484x725, Becoming_Lost.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73571976

Gonna post some convenient things for peeps, especially new osr DM's.

>> No.73572003
File: 45 KB, 725x322, Evasion.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73572003

>>73571976

>> No.73572026
File: 160 KB, 727x831, Game_Day.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73572026

>>73572003
Need to go out to do something. Will be back with helpful stuff later.

>> No.73572278

>>73571542
Thanks, I appreciate 'giant lobster' is an icon option, good for coastal hexes i'm sure.

>> No.73572325
File: 65 KB, 898x322, Monster_Reactions.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73572325

>>73572026

>> No.73572354
File: 59 KB, 544x281, Random_Magic_Items.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73572354

>>73572325
And there you go.

>>73569130
Hey newbie. You'll probably appreciate these. They ought to tell you a lot more about OSR than we can say.

>> No.73572570

>>73572003
I'm having a hard time interpretting this table. Why is it more likely to evade from a larger number of creatures who presumably have more chances for one to be observant than a smaller number of creatures? Is the idea that the party sees the larger group from further away and can therefore start evading from further away?

>> No.73572864

>>73572570
Yes, that's exactly why, according to the Expert rules.
>>73570246
Use the "Vancian Spell Generator" and make up the effects based on the name.
>>73570112
>>73569558
I know Self-Shilling Saturday was yesterday, but I can't help myself, because my bit on mapping advice might help you: https://guccifuligincloak.blogspot.com/2020/06/so-you-want-to-run-osr-part-2-running.html and scroll down to the section labeled "mapping"
>>73569130
>does story and roleplay take backseat to meticulous exploration?
I tell people "story doesn't happen before you sit down at the table. Story is what happens when you leave the table." Meaning, the players generate the story through their decisions, and walk away with tales of their deeds, as opposed to the DM generating the story ahead of time and guiding the players through it. Think of it like the difference between a game like Dwarf Fortress (emergent narrative) and a Telltale game (pre-determined paths through a narrative). The roleplay in OSR is much less about coming up with a backstory and Doing Funny Voices (as David Mamet would say) and more about behaving under the given circumstances (as Konstantin Stanislavsky would say). Players make choices "as if" they were really in the world, and character development emerges through how players decide to tackle given circumstances.
>is combat rare and deadly?
YES! The biggest mistake new referees make is NOT using reaction rolls. Then their players get slaughtered repeatedly and no one has fun. Use reaction rolls!
>how long does a character usually survive in an OSR campaign?
Depends on the player. I had one rather reckless player who died every session (to the point where we just started calling all his characters "Kenny") and one very cautious and calculating player who literally never died.

>> No.73573003

>>73572570
Large groups also obstruct one another. They create noise (even just their footsteps), chatter, draw attention so that A doesn't bump into B, and so on.
From my (admittedly paltry) experience with scouts, you only get increased attention from a group if they're dispersed and on the alert. Humans are very social creatures and even if they're strictly not talking they observe and react to each other in a very distracting way.

>> No.73573009

>>73572864
cont
>>73569130
>does an OSR campaign revolve solely around exploration, loot and puzzles; if so, what purpose do various settings and world building serve?
Not necessarily, and it will depend on your Referee. For example, faction politics are extremely important in my games, and players may spend an entire session negotiating with various factions and sowing machinations rather than exploring dungeons. However, loot *is* the end goal of all this. If it doesn't eventually lead to treasure, players generally ignore it.
>why do you personally prefer OSR over new games?
As a player? I found that I'd often walk away from nu-school games with stories about what the dice did, rather than what my party did. Essentially, the players drive the story in old-school games and the referee just sets up a playground for the players, while in newer games it feels like the referee is the one setting up the story, and the players might make a few perfunctory choices along the way.
As a ref? The number one thing for me is that I play more D&D when I play old school. Since the power curve is flattened, encounter balance doesn't matter. Since encounter balance doesn't matter, it's okay if we're down a player or two. Since there's no pre-generated "story" that cares about the player characters, someone can miss a session without "the story" being ruined. Since the gameplay loop takes us back to town at the end of each session, I don't have to worry about what to do with so-and-so's character if so-and-so isn't there. Therefore, I can play an "open table" where we play every week and whoever shows up shows up. I've run for as many as 9 players and as few as 3. But we consistently played every week. If you play old school, you will play more D&D.
I love how fast combat is. In 5e, I'd have to wait for people to pick a power, roll thirty dice, add it all up in their heads... I wished we were using chess clocks. It also limits what you're able to do.

>> No.73573107

>>73573009
cont
>>73569130
By which I mean, you can't run combats with too many characters without bogging them down. In old-school, I ran a fight between 25+ monsters and 9 player characters, something that would have taken multiple sessions in 5e. In B/X, it took probably about 30 minutes. In fact, I took to using mass combat rules and I have run skirmish-level battles in my game, which has opened up a new world of possibilities re: combat. My players can raise small armies and wage campaigns on bandit camps, or rove the countryside searching for giants to fill with volleys of arrows. It's truly the most fun I've ever had playing a tabletop game, there are so many inviting possibilities that just aren't feasible in 5e. This also means that when I'm making a hexmap, I don't have to worry about encounter balance. I can just drop a goblin camp somewhere and write "Goblins - 150 fighting aged males, 150 women, 300 goblin children, 50 war dogs, livestock, 8 hobgoblin lieutenants, 1 tamed owlbear" and I don't have to worry about whether or not my players can handle it. It's up to them to figure it out.
It's hard for me to go over all the reasons I love old-school play because I love everything about it. I don't look down on new-school, despite how it might seem, but to me it's an entirely different game, and I definitely prefer old school.
Anyhow, if you're interested in ever running a game, I'll take a moment to shill and link you to a series of articles I'm writing directed at first-time referees, it's called "So You Want to Run OSR": https://guccifuligincloak.blogspot.com/2020/05/so-you-want-to-run-osr-part-0-preparing.html
FWIW I'd suggest Old-School Essentials, published by Necrotic Gnome, as a ruleset. It's a 1:1 clone of the Basic/Expert rules that are perfect for newbies (and sort of the lingua franca of the OSR) and the SRD is available for free online in wiki form.
Lmk if you have other questions, I love spreading the Good Word of the OSR.

>> No.73573145

Friendly reminder that settings and predetermined campaigns are the antithesis of OSR and anyone working on them is a FOE.

>> No.73573267

>>73573145
Settings are the antithesis of OSR? Are you high? Your game has to happen in a world, and that world has to have a semblance of order and tone.

>> No.73573337

>>73573267
no, he's baiting
it's extra obvious from the combination of the acceptable thing (settings) and the unacceptable thing ("predetermined campaigns", whatever those are)
it's textbook b8 and you fell for it hook line and sinker. Don't reply next time

>> No.73573470
File: 55 KB, 599x450, 958078261.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73573470

>>73567800
>>73568339
>>73568346
>>73567832
>>73568584
Different anon here. Funny thing, I've been working on a codified, SMAC/System Shock inspired setting, at the moment taking place on Tau Ceti V. I completely agree with the opinion that such setting can work well with OSR gameplay loop, as long as there's some incentive to go out and explore the planet - building an abandoned civilization around Monoliths is a no-brainer. There's been some minor changes that some might call FOE:
>Clerics are absolutely gone and replaced by Scholars
>some anon had an idea I can't live without: Wisdom is gone and replaced by Resolve, which affects saving throws and number of spells Wizards are able to memorize
>Intelligence becomes a stat related only to languages, skills, and schematics available to Scholars
>there's a d6 skill system available to all classes, where everyone is able to, ultimately, become proficient at 2-3 skills, without class limits. Some classes receive a bonus to one or two skills, with some skill points mixed in, based on your character's Intelligence.
I have absolutely no idea have to handle tech trees, though. Each faction starting with its own super project, and the Referee rolling whether or not they became closer to finishing it (let's say, yearly, half-yearly, monthly, depending on the size and scope of it)? Throwing them away or reducing them to a list of available gear is unacceptable.

>> No.73574023

>>73565261
How so? Are you relying on instore pickup games? Just go round your friends house.

>> No.73574193

>>73553930
I too would like this info

>> No.73574240

>>73565261
It's not forever
Online gaming can be fun too
This is the perfect time to sharpen your prep skills
Read some books on gaming/theory/GMing/history/whatever
Try a /tg/ discipline you've never done. Write a monograph, paint a mini, play a big involved boardgame, whatever
Do something productive but boring, and have your phone running an audio recorder. Spout ideas as you think of them, letting boredom force your mind into a frenzy. Pick through the shit for gold later.
Run a classic dungeon solo style, and sharpen your player skills. This requires a bit of autism, and/or careful PDF handling to not read ahead.

>> No.73574407
File: 970 KB, 1470x834, map and regions.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73574407

pls r8

>> No.73574563

>>73567842
It seems like the thing I have been looking for and works perfectly for running my weird hodgepodge settings that aren't strictly one genre.

I just wish I could convince anyone I know irl to play it.

>> No.73574741

>>73574407
Looks good, what's the scale? 36mi hexes?

>> No.73575514

>>73574741
Just 6 miles. I know this makes having regions a bit incongruous but it's part of the campaign premise that the land is very fractious and divided.

>> No.73576236

Has anyone seen any interesting magic/powers systems popping up in otherwise OSR games? Im getting pretty over spell slots and memorization.

I'm really interested in a system like Savage Worlds or Genesys. Modular spells, use more power points to add effects or more power kind of thing.

Anyone seen it, or another good magic system that isnt just the usual d&d list?

>> No.73576392

>>73576236
There is the whitehack magic system that uses your hitpoints as magic cost and the default magic is freeform, with more traditional spell list being optional.

Very different from spell slots.

>> No.73576467

>>73576236
GLOG magic is fairly popular.

>> No.73576590

>>73574407
Real talk, since I'm wondering. What do you guys get from having such incredibly detailed hex types? Like, separating your map in various subcategories of "mountain with evergreens", "light evergreens", "heavy evergreens", "hills with evergreens", "hills", "hills with forest", etc. Does it come up in play? Do you use different travel times or different encounter tables for light forest, light evergreen, and empty green farmland hexes?

Somehow I get the feeling this is purely a way to add greeble to your hex map and make it more ~aesthetic~ but I'd love to be shown otherwise.

>> No.73576738

>>73576590
NAYRT but that can help prevent players from getting lost

>> No.73576855

>>73567842
I’m running it now for my current game, players have been receptive to it, especially my friend who is playing a wise character. He enjoys being able to mold his spells different ways.

I think it encourages player creativity but maybe leans too much into it. Roll under systems are my jam though and my players and I have enjoyed it.

>> No.73577180

>>73576590
I can only speak for myself but I straight up just do it for the aesthetic. It informs my descriptions I guess, dense, untouched forest vs. airier and inhabited by woodcutters.

It's not hard to imagine a rule where the lighter forests count as clear terrain for movement purposes or the like though.

>> No.73577251

>>73574407
I was really excited about this until I realized that the second map was just regional boundaries.

>>73576590
Not that anon either, but for me I have a large variety of different forest types, each of which has its own encounter tables and foraging tables. Some even have their own mechanics as well. Back before I developed this system, however, I would use different travel times for mountains+forest vs hills+forest vs flatland+forest, though, but otherwise not really.

That said, people using Hexographer for their maps are probably just adding them in because Hexographer lets you.

>> No.73577980

>>73576236
Cavegirl made a pretty cool spell-less MU class a little while ago. I've never played with it before but I've been meaning to for quite some time—it seems like it could be a lot of fun, especially with a cunning player
http://cavegirlgames.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-gifted-freeform-osr-magic.html

>> No.73578204

>>73576590
As long as I have enough terrain types to match the random encounter charts, I'm happy.
If I'm doing a hex map on the computer, I usually search around for something I like, throw it on paint,net and put a hunch of layers on top for the hexgrid, locations, DM notes, etc.
My current map is part of lordaeron that I've shaved the names off of

>> No.73578314
File: 601 KB, 1080x675, map diagram.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73578314

>>73578204
like so. you can see there's enough colours that I can have one keyed to woodlands, grasslands, mountains, etc so if I need to roll wandering monsters, it should be relatively easy

>> No.73578377
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>>73568195
>>73568697
Thank you, and glad you liked it. Going to be doing another session over my weekend; so this is gonna be some good fun.

>> No.73578455

Watching As Above, So Below rn. I think it should be required viewing for anyone who plays D&D. It sums up why people don't go dungeon delving.

>> No.73578873
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>>73573337
Very much agreed! IMHO I thought it was very obvious myself.... :-)

>> No.73580481
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>>73570547
>>73574602
why is /osrg/ leaking ?
seen alot of these threads in the catalogue over the past few months
is the strict adherence to on topic enforced trogs in this thread one of the key reasons
has osr become the new peak game buzzword among folks new to it ?

>> No.73580523

What do you guys feel are the most OSR stories and novels out there? Like, which stories specifically were Dave and Gygax trying to emulate with the original rules?

I ask this because I've never really found the essential D&D story out there, unless we count stuff that came AFTER D&D and was obviously heavily inspired by it. Its weird mix of Sword & Sorcery heroes and grittiness of Howard and Lieber in a high fantasy, super magical world of Tolkien and Dunesany is quite unique if we think about it.
As generic as D&D may seem today I believe it did create its very unique style of fantasy.

>> No.73580571
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73580571

Yo nerds, how do I design a D&D campaign that isn't focused on dungeons. Ok maybe you have small 1-4 room dungeon/lairs but for the most part I want to design something like Ultima 4 or the first Dragon Quest.

>> No.73580591

>>73580523
Conan stories
Fafhrd & Grey Mouser stories
Dying Earth novels
Three Hearts and Three Lions

>> No.73580595

>>73580571
Overland map and wandering monster tables. Plus lair tables, village tables, point of interest tables.

>> No.73580620

>>73580595
Ok, I can cook up a pretty sweet map and all that jazz but do I give the player characters context and a goal to achieve to push the game forward or are most players happy to enjoy the gameplay loops without a goal beyond "get shit, don't die"

>> No.73580638

>>73580620
I should explain. We're all pretty new and my players don't really know what they're "supposed" to do.

>> No.73580713

>>73580620
>>73580638
copy/pasting my comment from long ago:
Make a list of all the monsters that roam the countryside. Then put numbers from 01-100 next to them. This is your encounter table. Choose the most populous monsters and give them lairs in the hexmap. Some might even have 2 or 3 lairs each. Stuff those lairs with treasure. When the lairs are cleared, cross the monsters off the encounter table.

Come up with six fabulous beasts. Decide where they roam. Decide some rumors about the beasts (weaknesses, attacks, motivations, locations) and put them in a rumor table.

Then do the same thing for six fabulous heroes. A knight in winged mail, a sorcerer with the head of a goat, a masked elf.

Then come up with six fabulous treasures. Make rumors about what they do and where they can be found.

Make some bandit camps. Put them near towns. Make some strongholds and put them near bridges. Make some wizards towers and put them far away from everything.

Put a '???' In your encounter table. Then make a ??? Table. Strange encounters. Living light. A troupe of undead actors. A snail the size of a house.

Here is how I make cities and towns: https://guccifuligincloak.blogspot.com/2020/01/factions-for-city-overworld-play.html?m=1

>> No.73580746

I think there needs to be a settlement procedure that takes place in between sessions. You could email players for their individual XP gains and take handle hireling/mercenary hiring and take provision lists if you need to adjudicate their availability.

>> No.73580764

>>73580620
>or are most players happy to enjoy the gameplay loops without a goal beyond "get shit, don't die"
If you really invest in the sandbox and give them true freedom, I guarantee you they will love that shit. The games you mention are pretty much direct attempts at trying to emulate digitally D&D as it was played in its early years, but like all video games of the time, make it much more arcadey than the real thing.

I suggest looking into some articles on hex crawls for more info, there's tons of great OSR blog articles on this out there.

Here's a classic intro to the concept:
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/17308/roleplaying-games/hexcrawl

>> No.73580774
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>>73580620
Right, so two separate things.
First, I always start a sandbox game with a mission, quest or dungeon delve. That gives players time to get their feet under them, time to acquire information about the world, make friends and enemies and decide on their own goals. A pure cold start in a sandbox game, "what do you do?" with no real information, never works.
At a meta-level this opening mission should be one they can succeed or fail at, finish or walk away, keep working for the questgiver or doublecross him. And no strong moral element like "rescue the orphans before they're sacrificed," in a four player group at least one person always bites and follows the rails.
But second, once they're out of that starting mission, what players do is up to them. OSR typically encourages player directed missions with xp for gold retrieved and returned to civilization. For an overland/exploration game you'll probably keep xp for gold, plus add xp for exploration - each new hex entered, mapping, finding hidden natural wonders, etc. Ideally, once your players figure out the xp loop they'll start coming up with their own schemes - liberating a monster's hoard, making a long journey to tag a number of hexes, etc.

>> No.73580843
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73580843

>>73580571
>>73580620
>>73580638
>my players don't know what they're "supposed" to do, because I don't want my game of Dungeons & Dragons to include the former. What do?
Have you considered putting the dungeons back in?

>> No.73580887

>>73580843
Dude, I ran a session yesterday that was pretty fun but I think half of my players are trying to figure out their characters "motivations" which is kind of painful to watch but the other half is like "let's skillfully acquire treasure and plan adventures"

>> No.73580920

>>73580774
A pure cold start in a sandbox game sounds like a lot of fun to me. This is why I play games like Dragon Warrior 1 and Ultima. This is why I bring a notepad to the game and explore the DM's world.

Not that I expect that from most players but still. What the hell is wrong with people?

>> No.73580956

>>73580571
That's probably going to be a hexcrawl, just populated with small/optional dungeons (like how DQI's dungeons are effectively optional outside of Charlock).

>> No.73580962

>>73580713
Great tips, anon.

>> No.73581003

>>73580713
How much effort should I spend on stocking rooms in dungeons? I can randomly create them but they seem kind of "meh" to me. Am I just overthinking it?

>> No.73581013

>>73580571
I honestly don't know, because it's all I've known.
Like I've been gaming for 25 years and did my first real dungeon dive last year.
>>73580620
Either get them to build characters with hooks to use, or put some sort of authority figure over then to dole out missions/orders.

>> No.73581014

>>73580887
Yes? Was it in a dungeon?
>half of my players are trying to figure out their characters' motivations
This is fine, that's part of the game, fortunately just about any motivation a character might have (woo a loved one, build a castle, rescue a ransomed family member) works great with acquiring gold. Even "becoming a powerful wizard" takes money and explorations into uncharted territory.

That is to say, you ARE using gold-for-xp, aren't you, Anonymous?

>> No.73581030

>>73581014
Yeah. Silver for xp actually. It's fun as hell.

>> No.73581041

>>73581003
IME items in a dungeon are always less interesting than factions in a dungeon. I wouldn't stress about it, randomly generated is fine

>> No.73581050

>>73580887
>half of my players are trying to figure out their characters "motivations"
Explain OSR to them in terms of old-school video games. You don't know the heroes motivation in Diablo, or Ultima, or Stone Soup, the character is just your avatar into this world that you get to explore and have fun in.
The backstory should bring flavor to your character, like "farmer turned mercenary" "fanatical witchunter" and "scoundrel who flunked Magical Academy", etc. It should color their abilities and overall persona, but not guide their motivation and interactions with the world once play begins: the player guides his character, not the other way around.
You should always ask "how can this character do what I want", and never "what would this character do"

>> No.73581065

>>73580962
Thank you!

>> No.73581095

>>73581003
Make treasure part of the dungeon. The eyes of the statues are gems, the mummies are wearing jewelry, the god was being kept in the secret room to pay for mercenaries in a war that never came, etc. You don't HAVE too, obviously, but it's simple enough to do this most of the time, and it makes the weird, out-of-place magical stuff that you put there randomly even more mysterious in the eyes of the players.

>> No.73581111

>>73581095
the gold*

>> No.73581143

>>73576590
I don’t use hexes at all. I use a ruler. Hexes make for ugly ass maps.

>> No.73581267
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73581267

>>73581143
hexes are not player facing maps.

>> No.73581385

>>73580523
Leiber, Howard, Clark Ashton Smith. The Tale of Satampra Zeiros is probably the "quintessential D&D story" you're looking for. Lords of Quarmall comes pretty close too, and IIRC both Kuntz and Mornard have cited CAS' other story The Seven Geases as one Gygax explicitly stated that he had in mind when designing the game.

>> No.73581444

>>73580571
>>73580638
Bro, I say this in the kindliest way: you are not in any position to be fucking around with the core gameplay of OSR D&D if you're new to it. The whole reason Basic D&D start with the dungeon elements of the game is they're the easiest and most straightforward to make satisfying. Don't remove that whole structure just because... well, why, even?

>> No.73581499

>>73581385
I prefer Almuric and motherfucking John Carter of Mars.

>>73581444
I get what you're saying. I'm not taking dungeons out entirely or mucking around with any of the rules I'm just about wilderness exploration with smaller dungeons.

>> No.73581524

>>73580571
>Yo nerds, how do I design a WoD campaign that isn't focused on darkness.

>> No.73581552

>>73581514
>>73581514
>>73581514

>> No.73581563

>>73581499
>I prefer Almuric and motherfucking John Carter of Mars.
I wasn't really talking about personal preferences. Anon asked which stories Dave and Gygax were trying to emulate, not which ones we like best. (It's true that there's a Barsoom corner of OD&D, but it's not central.)

>> No.73581571

>>73581524
>>73581444
Wilderness exploration is also 100% straight OSR. The original D&D setting doesn't even have dungeons laid out. A campaign focused on exploring a huge wilderness with spread out mini-dungeons is very much in the spirit of old-school D&D.

>> No.73581596
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73581596

>>73581552

>> No.73583601

>>73576590
I am that anon
Yes. It's just about variation, it's only a small map if I used 3 types of terrain it would just be boring. Likewise, it helps me to describe things especially travel, it gives a better feel if when travelling through hexes the density of the trees or steepness of the hill changes. It's an easy way to make hexes semi-unique without putting in any effort.
Furthermore, I wanted regions on my map without them being too similar or composed of a single terrain type, just similar terrain types. If the players hear they are heading to a mountainous evergreen region they will plan differently than if they were going to a snowy/barren mountain region.
It also effects encounters and if fighting occurs where and how it occurs. Nothing is more annoying than dense forest.

>> No.73583881
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>> No.73584310

>>73564113
As UW&W has it. Food, loot, spike the door, make a patch of burning oil, lose it around corners, use secret doors, marbles, caltrops, whatever. You gotta out-smart things faster than you. And if they're running away, where's your bolas, and just maybe, it's not actually a good idea to go blindly chasing after them into the inky gloom.

>> No.73584348

>>73568851
Damn right. Love seeing when there's notes scrawled around, with question marks, 'X' marks the spot, and etc. stuff. It's further interesting seeing how the party handles it when they find treasure maps, scrutinizing how closely they align with their own, or even just someone's crude point map scratched into the wall.

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