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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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73313941 No.73313941 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Clegane edition

>> No.73313948

What some good human-centric political fantasy?

>> No.73314320
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73314320

>>73313948
The Traitor Baru Cormorant.

>> No.73314464

>>73313941
For your "less-than-moral medieval soldiers at war" needs, I'm gonna pitch in The Black Company. Dark Fantasy, the POV is from the foot soldiers of the baddies; they fight alongside soldiers that'd be right at home as one of Clegane's men.

>> No.73314476
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73314476

If you like grimdark sci-fi, consider reading the Xeelee Sequence.The horrific shit the ICoG put humanity through, and the grand sense of hopelessness makes 40k look like paradise.

>> No.73314554

>>73314476
>The horrific shit the ICoG put humanity through, and the grand sense of hopelessness makes 40k look like paradise.
h-how bad is it?

>> No.73314706

Any good books about lone adventurers? Just read The Night Land and Awaken in The Night Land, want to find something in the same vein.
>>73314464
>The Black Company
A man of good taste.

>> No.73314783
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73314783

>>73313941
Been re-reading some Michael Moorcock and can recommend ‘The Prince with the Silver Hand’ trilogy. It is an excellent example of the sorely under represented genre Celtic fantasy. The whole series just oozes a mystical atmosphere and really ‘gets’ the feel of old Irish/Celtic myth.

>> No.73314860
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73314860

>>73314554
Ant colonies of humans living in filth, vat grown child soldiers that are expected to die within minutes of being born, humanity throwing a trillion trillion lives at a war they knew they were going to lose, building a metaphysical project that would force every person in history to undergo unimaginable torture and live through a subjective quadrillion years, and an attempt at destroying the universe out of spite using something called configuration space.

Also the universe is dying, and humanity is at war with the one group of aliens who can stop it. We eventually learn what these aliens (the titular Xeelee) are doing and we keep trying to destroy them anyway. There is light, however dark, at the end though.

>> No.73314899
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73314899

Anything by Diana Wynne Jones.

>> No.73314958

>>73314899
>Diana Wynne Jones
it's absolutely mental how prolific she was

>> No.73314972
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73314972

Any decent fantasy focusing about dwarfs and underground/mountain kingdoms?

>> No.73314981

>>73314958
Unfortunately 'was' is the correct term. Her works capture a certain nostalgia for the writing styles of the 20th century, but these days the kids want something that stokes their ego a little more.

>> No.73315043
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73315043

>>73313941
I might be fitting a square peg into a round hole, but a lot of the Infocom games meet the criteria for good quality, /tg/ tier literature. Yes, they are video games, but they are also as much books as any choose your own adventure novel.
The Zork series is the most well know of the Infocom games, but the Enchanter trilogy was the real gem.
Some real great works of interactive fiction to be found.

>> No.73315053

>>73314554
Like actual fucking grimdark. Makes 40k look like a satire it was supposed to be type of grimdark.

>> No.73315056
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73315056

>> No.73315066
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73315066

>>73314972
The Dwarves by Markus Heitz. Amusingly enough first book was adapted into a video game.

>> No.73315185

>>73314464
one of these days I'll actually the black company. or listen to it because I hear audiobook version is pretty great.

>> No.73315491

>>73315066
Heitz is a hack but halfway entertaining

>> No.73315496
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73315496

Is pic related any gud? .

>> No.73315638

After I ready Moby Dick I ran a sea adventure and after reading Blood Meridian my players started to run into cut throat scalpers and wild elves sodomites.
>>73314783
Yes the 2nd Corum trilogy is definitely my favorite Moorcock. I read them in the summer but could feel the cold of the Fhoi Myore so well

>> No.73315683
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73315683

>>73315066
While I don't think the Dwarves is bad, I think you'd have to pick it up already knowing you love everything about dwarves to enjoy the read. I found it dull and never finished it. I found the side plot and chapters about the mage far more interesting than anything Tungdil and the other dwarves got up to.


The Black Road was a good easy pulpy fiction read.

>> No.73315891

>>73315066
This seems like something right up my alley.

>> No.73316081
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73316081

One of my absolute favourite books.

>> No.73316193
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73316193

Literally where Gygax took the magic system for D&D from.
Although, I don't think any edition has ever mentioned that each spell weighs on the mind which is why magic-users forget the spell once it is cast.

>> No.73316473
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73316473

Any decent science fiction which focuses a lot on cybernetics and such? Nothing crazy so that it seems more magic than science, but I honestly haven't come across a science fiction book or story where the cybernetics were something more than just props for the show. I'd really enjoy reading about exploring that sort of thing, bridging the gap between human and machine, combining the two and so on.

>> No.73316639

For sci-fi, read Neuromancer and once you've got a fresh pair of jorts on go read the rest of the sprawl trilogy. Quick reads with some incredible atmosphere, invented cyberpunk literature too

>> No.73316649

>>73316193
at least they credited the man. I wonder if most D&D players even know where vancian magic comes from or is called that way.

>> No.73316700

>>73316649
They don't. The new-wave high-production D&D livestream players all cite Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings as their inspirations for "getting into fantasy"

Other fantasy books might as well not exist to these arseholes.

>> No.73316721

>>73315056
Is Book of the New Sun one of the rare examples of SF/fantasy works with literary value? Shit is just so damn well written.

>> No.73316857
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73316857

The Belgariad is the best example of how to take generic fantasy and make it good purely by character alone. Which is basically D&D

>> No.73317183

>>73316473
"Cyborg", by Martin Caidin
"No Woman Born", by C.L. Moore
"The Ship Who Sang", by Anne McCaffrey
"Who?", by Algis Budrys.

>> No.73317230

>>73315683
old diablo novels are shockingly readable

>> No.73317257

>>73314464
gdamn i need to read that shit i have the omnibus

>> No.73317271

>>73314476
That background makes me feel at peace. Where the fuck are you rn?

>> No.73317535

>>73316473
"The Turing Option", by Harry Harrison and Marvin Minsky
The Donovan Steele books, by Simon Hawke writing as J. D. Masters
"A Plague of Demons", by Keith Laumer

>> No.73317753
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73317753

>> No.73317806

>>73315185
they are great, in one of the later books they go to (NOT) Africa and find a million warrior Africans who join them...It gets a little weird, but just stop reading before you get to that book.

>> No.73318332
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73318332

It's fantasy 3 musketeers, whats not to love?

>> No.73318353
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73318353

Discworld, now and forever

>> No.73318367

>>73313948
The Augur's Gambit.

>>73314783
The second Hawkmoon series is also really good if you like Moorcock.

>>73316473
Hyperion perhaps?

>>73316857
I generally thought the Elenium/Tamuli did that better, although the Belgariad and Malloreon are reasonably good too. But you're right, in all four series, it's the banter that makes it work.

>> No.73318423
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73318423

The Spellmonger Series is my favorite and still running now.
Really big books but there is something special about how Terry Mancour writes details into his characters

>> No.73318954
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73318954

>>73318367
>The second Hawkmoon series is also really good if you like Moorcock.
Dude I fucking love Hawkmoon. And I actually like the first series.
I think Moorcock in general might be my favorite fantasy author, if I had to pick. Closely followed by Jack Vance. There's something so wonderfully baroque yet very 60s to both's writing.

>> No.73320250

>>73316857
>Belgariad
It's alright, but then it spirals out all sorts of different shit.

>> No.73320266

>>73317753
I don't know what to do with Paks. I read the first one out of a, "Trust me it gets better" kind of mindset, and now I'm a little bit into the second and I'm really ambivalent about it. She's in the elf ruins with that asshole right now, and I'd like to keep reading but I feel like it isn't quite gripping me. Does it actually get monumentally better from this point?

>> No.73320860

>>73314320
First time seeing this recommended. Will check it out.

>> No.73320977

>>73315496
Yes. Yes, it is. Most of the stuff I really liked about it would be spoiling, so go read it instead

>> No.73321223

>>73313941
The orc books by peinkofer. They're about 2 orc brothers fucking around and saving the world by accident,one is fat,selfish and greedy,the other is a big guy but retarded.

>> No.73321239

>>73320860
It's alright, but the writing leaves much to be desired.

>> No.73321274
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73321274

>>73313941
Any other Donaldson fans here?

>> No.73321280

>>73316857
David Eddings has said he essentially wrote The Belgariad as proof that he was a good enough writer to take the most generic tropes and make a good story out of it.

>> No.73321290

>>73314476
>Xeelee Sequence
I keep hearing about this. Really need to read it at some point, but then I see 5+ books.

>> No.73321314

>>73316857
Is The Malloreon better, though?

>> No.73321417

>>73314476
Where do I get digital versions of those books? I don't want to buy 60 books and have them fill up my room.

>> No.73321452

>>73321314
Not him, but IMO it's a little weaker. It's slightly more polished, but the worldbuilding is even worse (in large part because he's working off of stuff that he clearly didn't think through in any great detail before publishing and then adding more stuff on top of it), and the adolescent protagonist who was a fish out of water worked much better than the adult Belgarion who is the eater of armies when he throws down.


Not to mention that the gradual empowering of the destinies as the series goes on makes the stakes seem less and less important because it becomes harder and harder to deviate from what is "planned out".

>> No.73321459

>>73318353
>dat feel when you could tell Pratchett wasn't all up there in the last few novels

>> No.73321502
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73321502

>>73314706
>Just read The Night Land and Awaken in The Night Land, want to find something in the same vein.

Hodgson dying young was one of those major losses for the genre and sadly very few registered it.

>> No.73321518

>>73321459
It was a bit noticeable in Making Money, but it wasn't too bad
Then I started on Unseen Academicals and it was brutally obvious that the Alzheimer's was getting to him bad

>> No.73321632

>>73321518
>and it was brutally obvious that the Alzheimer's was getting to him bad
Why?

>> No.73321696

>>73313948
Malazan maybe, most of the races with a few exceptions are just various offshoots of humans, the political angles are probably more prominent in the Esslemont books than the mainline series though both have it.

>> No.73321740
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73321740

>>73316857
>The Belgariad

>> No.73321754

>>73321632
The writing quality shifted downwards very suddenly, and the style also changed noticeably.

>> No.73321773

>>73321754
Yeah but how?

>> No.73321825

>>73321773
It didn't feel very connected, it was a lot more blunt and less subtle in its message, the humor became more juvenile and less witty.
I think the worst of it, Raising Steam, was barely comprehensible.

>> No.73321961

>>73313941
is there any good early modern fantasy era out there

>> No.73322009

>>73321961
Seventh Decimate is pretty good, but this is from a card carrying Donaldson fanboy. If you want something a bit shorter and lighter, Moorcock's Von Bek stuff is pretty decent, especially the one set in the French Revolution that I'm blanking on the name of.

>> No.73322021

>>73322009
>>73321961
Just looked it up, the title's "A city in the Autumn Stars"

>> No.73322028

>>73315056
One of the best things I've ever read. And like the other anon said, it's one of the only SF/F works with "literary value". Not that it actually matters, but it speaks volumes of Gene Wolfe.

It's not for everyone though

>> No.73322073

>>73322028
>>73316721
Curious: How would you (two) define "literary value"? I have a sort of inchoate definition built along the lines that when you step away from the book and stop and think about it you realize important stuff that you missed that enhances the experience, but I'm going to guess that's not necessarily what you're going for.

>> No.73322470

>>73322073
Literary value is value of a literary work beyond its fictional boundaries, anon.

>> No.73322553

>>73322470
Anon, that answer makes it completely indistinguishable from the quality of the prose.

>> No.73322573

>>73322009
Oh is that one early modern, I had seen it but wasn’t certain

>> No.73322846

>>73322553
Nah, but high quality prose also has literary value. One encompasses the other.

>> No.73322884

>>73314464
>he POV is from the foot soldiers of the baddies
For like one book. Then they trip headlong into being glorious soldiers of the magical little girl revolution and the MC gets to bang his demigoddess waifu/the villain.

>> No.73322885

>>73322573
Depending on how exactly you define your terms? Yeah, I put it there. Technological and most social conventions (at least in the part of the world that the book focuses on, which is admittedly something of a backwater) have a kind of late renaissance/age of sail sort of feel. It's not like 18th century, more like 16th-17th sort of thing.

>> No.73322907

>>73322846
Then I'm missing your point, I'm afraid. If you're saying that its work is beyond that of the fictional boundaries contained within the work itself, what else is there beyond the quality of the writing in the abstract?

>> No.73322964

Demon cycle series:
1st book is fantastic pulp. It's doomguy meets Kenshiro.
2nd book is good, bit too world-build focused (introduction of the arab-spartan-ninjas, their dumb nomenclature)
3rd book is not half bad, but is greatly reducing doomguy-kenshiro
4th turns it to shit
I have not bought 5th, won't buy it

Harold Lamb is a great nonfiction writer in the style of REH, but a bit less primal and passionate and a bit more sanitary. But still good, good enough that Harold Lamb was one of REH's favorite authors. I am not so big on the fiction Lamb wrote, his nonfiction of Hannibal or Alexander or whatever feels narrative history text like how ancient and medieval authors wrote histories.

I need good fantasy set in Mediterranean or Middle Eastern style environments. If anyone has any recommendations.

>> No.73323093

>>73314476
I was going to give you shit for staging a photograph of your book but to be honest that looks great, hope you're enjoying yourself.

>> No.73323121
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73323121

Galaxy's Edge is pretty great, desu. I'd describe it as a grittier Star Wars, but I feel like that's doing a disservice to it. It's just good military sci-fi.

>> No.73323227

>>73322907
Something as simple as the lesson learned in little red riding hood for example.

>> No.73323334

>>73318332
That there isn't more of it.

>> No.73323459

>>73321773
NAYRT, but at least three that I can think of off the top of my head

Concepts and plots in the later books were very rushed by any standard of fantasy lit, whereas Pratchett was famous for planting Chekovs and brick jokes all the way in the first chapter, and letting it be the key to the plot all the way at the very end

>e.g.
>Guards Guards, pg. 8 "handing down the secret sword and birthmark"
>pg. 15 "this sword... isn't magical, hasn't got a name... hasn't got a destiny written all over it. It's practically unique, in fact"

>pg. 273 "look at me, I've got a birthmark on my arm... mine's more like a crown thing... and I've got this sword"
>"Kings' swords are big and shiny and magical and have jewels on and when you hold them up they catch the light, ting"
>except except except maybe you real real king of days of yore would have a sword that didn't sparkle one bit but was bloody efficient at cutting things, just a thought


Also, it was a hallmark of Pratchett's that he could develop and juggle multiple plotlines at once

Lastly his early and peak writings were packed full of literary, movie, historical and linguistic references and puns. So much so that fans came up with Annotated Pratchett Files, just to deal with the more esoteric references.

From Snuff and onwards it was clear that he could no longer work on such intricate plotting and was just pushing out narrative in a very straightforward, linear manner. You could see next steps and resolutions coming a mile away, and it was frankly boring AF.

>> No.73323479
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73323479

>>73318332

>> No.73323523

>>73320266
It does get better. It gets hardcore dnd once she gets into paladin training. But it gets almost immediately better after the elf ruins.

>> No.73323537

>>73321274
I unequivocally HATE Thomas with every fiber of my being. Which is a shame since the world is interesting.

>> No.73323573

>>73321502
He just wrote a shitty version of the Last Man. He was no great loss.

>> No.73323611

>>73323459
Thanks for summarizing what I couldn't
Fuck Alzheimer's. I'll take Cancer over it

>> No.73323625

>>73321696
Malazan is great for Worldbuilding and far too scattershot fro much else.

>> No.73323641

>>73323523
Okay anon, I'll keep soldiering through it all.

>> No.73323669

>>73315066
It's generic as hell shit that only got published because publishers were clammering to get their hands on fantasys stuff in the wake of the LotR movies.

Only consider if you're absolute starved for fantasy and are dead out of alternatives.

>> No.73323696

>>73317806
The fuck are you talking about?
They go to NOTIndia before rebuilding the Company in NOTJapan.

>> No.73323729
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73323729

>>73313941
Just finished the Heroes and fucking hated the ending. Should have known after the First Law Trilogy, but still.
I wish someone could just stand being Abercrombie and slap his hands away before he can shit his stories up on the home stretch.

>> No.73323796

>>73316857
I never could stand Polgara.

>> No.73323823

>>73313941
Can anyone recommend something with focus on necromancy? Like flesh golem army of zombies and skeletons preferably, for whatever reason I'm just feeling that vibe lately. I've been reading rise of nagash and before that I read a trashy litrpg series, awaken online. Nagash is good and I like the Egyptian aesthetic.

>> No.73323880

>>73318954
Oddly enough, Moorcock himself claims it was just something he cranked out to pay the bills.
But yeah, still an absolute favourite of mine as well.

>> No.73323881
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73323881

>>73323823
The Old Kingdom series is freaking excellent.
More of a Excorsist than classical Necromancer vibe though.

>> No.73323897

>>73318367
>second Hawkmoon series
Give me a basic rundown of it, polease.

>> No.73323984

If you could only recommend one fantasy book or series, which would it be?

>> No.73324051

>>73323984
Discworld.

LotR is easily more important, but Discworld offers more to the average person, both in themes and volume.

Just stop after I Shall wear Midnight.

>> No.73324114

>>73315496
Very solid
A few missteps here and there, but I think he knew what he was doing.

>> No.73324131

>>73313941
With JK cancell,ing herself, is there another series poised to become the new YA Fantasy brand?
From what I've seen the Artemis Fowl movie isn't exactly going to revitalize its source material.
Is Lightning Thief still popular with the youth?

>> No.73324168

>>73320860
Trigger warning anon: it involves non heterosexuals presented in positive light and indigineous cultures as superior to colonisers :)
It is also amazing tale of how one person can betray literally everybody and ruin everything.

>> No.73324215
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73324215

>>73313941
Can anyone recommend low fantasy in a early medieval setting (800-1100 AD)?
Tried reading Last Kingdom, but couldn't make it trough all the Viking fellating.

>> No.73324322

>>73324168
Thanks anon, won't touch that shit then.

>> No.73324359

>>73323669
>Generic
Yes it is generic but it also removes brakes on action train once you get past the introduction if you want a book to get few hours if pure fun you can't go wrong with Markus heitz.
Also his Shadowrun books are amazing.

>> No.73324425

Think a big recommendations collage could be made. Kind of like a sticky type deal of recommended media to consume as a starting point for new DMs?

>> No.73324440
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73324440

>>73323823
>Gideon the ninth
One is bodyguard that is forced to do her last job before moving on to better contract.
Other is prodigy of a heretic necromancer family that needs to survive long enough to become successor to god emperor.
Together they solve Costa murder mysteries.

This book is best exploration of what different ways necromancy can be used told by chad protagonist.

>> No.73324445

>>73324425
Use Google, fartknocker.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Approved_literature

>> No.73324461

>>73324425
There alrady is a pretty good list on 1D4chan.
No need to make a picture that's gonna be less comprehensive.

>> No.73324511

>>73324051
That's a good stopping point unless you want "closure"

>> No.73324526

I've heard a lot of good and a lot of bad on Malazan
How does it stack up /tg/? Gimme your thoughts on it

>> No.73324543

>>73324359
>if you want a book to get few hours if pure fun you can't go wrong with Markus heitz.
Eh the action isn't THAT well written and the author clearly wants you to care about his mediocre worldbuilding and subpar characters (lol the bard banged both the mother and the daughter at the same time).
If it was just some lighthearted high fantasy things would be different, but the author is way too far up his own ass.

>> No.73324565

>>73324511
I honestly considered adding Shepherd's Crown.
It's still sub par, but it's better than the preceeding books and serves as a neat capstone. COuld be great even, if you just took out the Queen being redeemed.

>> No.73324569

>>73324440
Is this the one some people shit on for having lesbian characters?
Anyways, the premise reminds me somewhat of Dresden Files, so I might give it a read

>> No.73324572

>>73324565
Shepherd's Crown is a massive step up from Snuff and Raising Steam
Snuff is pretty bad. Raising Steam is unreadable.

>> No.73324586

>>73324572
Should I just not read Snuff if I'm only going to the City Watch books?

>> No.73324597

>>73324586
Only read it if you really want closure to the story.
The rest of the Watch books are extremely high quality.
Consider the other series too if you get a chance. Reaper Man is my favorite novel in the entire series.

>> No.73324604

>>73324586
Don't bother.
It doiesn't advance the characters in any significant way and makes Terry's degrading writing skill painfully obvious.
Thud is the perfect ending point for both Vimes and the Watch.

>> No.73324607

>>73324604
Mr. Shine
Him Diamond

>> No.73324625

>>73324597
I'm planning on reading the Death series too (Along with Small Gods)

>> No.73324634 [DELETED] 

>>73323984
Thomas Covenant

>> No.73324639

>>73324607
>“He came callin’ to help you!” snarled Detritus. “What you don’, Mister Vimes? Why you go on askin’ questions? Wi’ the dwarfs you have pussy feet, must not upset ‘em, oh no, but what you do if dey was trolls, eh? Kick down der door, no problem! Mr. Shine bring you Brick, give you good advice, an’ you talk like he bein’ a bad troll! I’m hearin’ now where Captain Carrot, he tellin’ the dwarfs he the Two Brothers. You fink that make me happy? We know dat lyin’ ol’ dwarf lie, yes! We groan at it lyin’, yes! You want to see Mr. Shine, you show humble, you show respec’, yes!”

>> No.73324742

>>73324625
I'm clearly a Pratchett shill, that much should be obvious, but the WItches series are worth a look too.
Granny Weatherwax is the best damn character in the entire series

>> No.73324775

>>73324639
Are trolls niggers in discworld?

>> No.73324798

>>73324775
Trolls are rocks, and have the intelligence of a rock

>> No.73324803

>>73323897
I apparently mis-quoted, the official name is the Count Brass series.

But it's set after the original quartet, and the Happily Ever After is interrupted as Hawkmoon keeps slipping through realities and memories a la that 7th season TNG episode with Worf; the people who died in the last battle against Granbretan keep changing, and he's going a bit crazy trying to figure out what happens, which leads to an adventure which ties it in more openly with the rest of the Eternal Champion stuff.

If you don't mind a spoiler:

It ENDS the Eternal champion saga. The conflict between Sword, Staff, and Balance ends. Erekose's tragedy finally gets resolution.


>>73324215
It's not ultra-brillaint amazing, but you might want to try Kenneth C Flint's stuff, especially the Sidhe series and the Tales of the Fianna one. Very Irish based though, not sure if you like that.

>> No.73324812

>>73324526
It has undead prehistoric nazis as objective good guys.

>> No.73324817

>>73324742
I'll be sure to check these out if I enjoy the ones I've picked. Though would you rather recommend Rincewind or Witches?
I like Rincewind's premise a bit more, though I'm willing to hear from someone who's experienced.

>> No.73324825

>>73324798
Except their silicon based brains work much faster in low temperatures, which means a troll in a fridge is probably smarter than a regular dude

>> No.73324836

>>73324803
>Sidhe series and the Tales of the Fianna one. Very Irish based though, not sure if you like that.
Sounds like fun.
WIll check it out.
Thanks.

>> No.73324841

>>73324817
The Death books (along with his collab with Gayman, Good Omens) are the ones where Terry Pratchett goes full Victor Hugo style humanist. I like them.

>> No.73324859

>>73321961
The Powder Mage trilogy is pretty cool. It's set in a french revolution-esque time period, and has a gunpowder based magic system.
Some people say that the trilogy after this one is even better, but I haven't gotten around to it yet

>> No.73324874

>>73323984
The Thomas Covenant stuff. Not everyone likes it, and I'll be the first to admit that it really isn't for everyone, but I have never read anything before or since that packs that sort of an emotional punch to the gut, and that's why it generates such a love it or hate it reaction.

It also deconstructs Isekai stuff well before it got to the anime crap it became today. It's basically about a very literate, very intelligent guy who gets Isekai'd into a world that's very possibly designed to be a hero fellator place, only he's a depressed, jaded, suicidal leper whose wife left him and he's half convinced she was right to do it, and half convinced that all women everywhere are to blame for it. He knows exactly what playing the fantasy hero will do to him when he has to go back, and that means giving up the protective disciplines he learned, so he fights it every step of the way.

But it's a psychodrama treading the through the mind of a VERY damaged person, and it gets very dark. Shortly after the start, the protagonist rapes an innocent girl, simply because it was the first time he could get it up in close to a year. And hoo boy does that act have consequences; the fallout from that rape drives pretty much everything that happens in the first series. If that's not the sort of thing you like, this isn't for you.

>> No.73324885

>>73324817
Rincewind is one of my favorite characters.
That being said, I think the Wizards series is the weakest out of the main series, because Rincewind wants absolutely nothing to do with the plot.
Pratchett himself was done with the character after The Light Fantastic, but kept bringing him back due to fan demand. Rincewind's books are a fun romp but they don't really make you think.

The Witches series in my opinion is a lot more complex and shows a developing world and cast while retaining Pratchett's style of humor.

I would read the first books in their respective series and then decide which one to proceed with from there since I'm biased towards the Witches.

>> No.73324898

>>73324825
You're talking about the scene in Men at Arms, right?

>> No.73324906

>>73324569
Eh ... Sexuality is weirdest thing to hang up on this book i was more annoyed with the fact that one of the main suspects was telegraphed as villain early on and was actually end villain.
Most pleasure of the book comes from sudden switch from standard battle royale for position to well crafted murder mystery combined with really fun narrator .

>> No.73324914
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73324914

>>73324526
It is like taking part in a absolutely insane D&D campaign with the most insanely detailed setting ever (which is pretty much how the thing came to be).

The worldbuilding is insanely good and goes to Tolkien levels of detail with dozens upon dozens of detailed cultures with their own gods, history and customs.
BUT, the story and pacing is all over the place, a bunch of characters a very obviously overpowered PCs, new characters and storylines are constantly introduced and killed off/forgotten about and stuff like romances are just badly written.

If you like worldbuilding you'll love it, otherwise you're better off staying away.

>> No.73324919

>>73324812
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

>> No.73324936

>>73324898
Yee

>> No.73324937

>>73323984
The Witcher.
And while I know it's a pretty normie answer right now, I had a smile plastered on my face whenever I got to read the books. And not beacasue it was funny, but because I was genuinely happy to be reading these books.

A second close one would be The Gentleman Bastards sequence, but as it's less than halfway done I can't really vouch for it's full quality like I can for The Witcher.

>> No.73324958

>>73324906
The Lesbian thing was just so I could know if it was the right book.
I like this concept a lot and I'll look into these books

>> No.73324961

>>73324919
Yes.
The books are weird.

>> No.73324973

>>73323984
Black Company. It starts off as a generic medieval European fantasy tale of good and evil and then immediately dives off the deep end and straight into India.

>> No.73325011

>>73324973
>>73324973
>Black Company.
>generic medieval European fantasy tale of good and evil

You wot?

>> No.73325031

>>73324914
>plotlines/characters being forgotten about
Ooh, that sounds like a dealbreaker to me. Is it really bad or just minor stuff?

>> No.73325070

>>73314464
>>73317806
I've heard people say Black Company gets weirder after the Books of the North but I rarely hear them say it gets bad, is there actually a dip in quality or is the setting/tone just radically different.
I'm on Silver Spike and getting nervous now since I like the series a lot.

>> No.73325072

>>73325031
Mostly minor stuff, but plenty of examples of main characters being killed of unceremoniously only for the story to jump to an almost entirely unrelated new theater.

>> No.73325088

>>73325072
It almost reminds me of Song of Ice and Fire the way you're describing it to be honest

>> No.73325095

>>73325070
It never gets bad per se, it just vers off into some really weird and unexpected places.
I enjoyed the series to the very end, but it was mostly due to the characters rather than the plot.

>> No.73325105

>>73324919
Yes.
Every action in this series has logic and reason behind it with conséquences often uninteded and far reaching. This is one of few series that gives somebody that would be a satirday morning cartoon villain in another series a good reason for their actions that while wrong is still understandable. Even undead prehistoric nazis have reason to be that way and deserve your compassion and understanding

>> No.73325111

>>73325095
>to the very end

Have we given up hope on the final novel coming out?

>> No.73325120

>>73325111
I thought the series was finished?

>> No.73325150

>>73325088
Only in the high character mortality.
ASoIaF is about the politics and powerstruggle, with the worldbuilding only pushed as far as is struictly necessary. Malazan is very much about the world first and foremost. There is an orverarching theme in the Crippled God, but it's second to the world itself.

>> No.73325161

>>73325111
Is there anything left to tie up?

>> No.73325163

>>73325120
Cook is writing a conclusion to the series called 'A Pitiless Rain' but there hasn't been much news on it as far as I can tell

Port of Shadows came out in 2018 so I assume he's still working on it

>> No.73325188

>>73325163
Oh, Black Company
I was asking about Malazan, my bad
Redpill me on Black Company too by the way, that one sounds neat

>> No.73325230

>>73325188
Gritty, grimdark low fantasy done right.
One of those books that isn't mainstream but very influential within the gernre.
The author of Malazan cites it as one of his inspirations.

Would absolutely recommedn the first three books to everyone.

>> No.73325245

>>73325011
I mean you read the first three books right brah, Lady and Croaker both spell it out - the Dominator (and the Green Hand) are true evil, completely distinct from the morally gray nonsense the rebel and the empire are up to.

>> No.73325304

>>73325188
If you like Malazan the author of that series loves it and describes it as 'like reading Vietnam war fiction on peyote'
Which is pretty accurate, Glen Cook was in the Navy and writes military banter really well, the first novel is about a band of mercenaries working for totallynot female sauron and it's surprisingly comfy at times.

The Narrator is the Black Company historian and medic who generally so it's a more interesting perspective when the guys are just playing cards after some world changing battle between good and evil.

>> No.73325327

>>73325304
I haven't started on either, but your premise is enough to interest me.

>> No.73325343

>>73325304
A goddess who has to do paperwork, and her ringwraiths are powerful enough to win battles singlehanded, but also so retarded that the empire only functions because they're not permitted to be near each other for too long

>> No.73325364

>>73325245
Did YOU read the books?
It's only ever a choice between evils. The Company is no better than anyone their fighting against, they're just better at the fighting part.
And Croaker freely admits he's glossing over most of the heinous shit they get up to.
They fight the Dominator because he would have it in for them and Lady, not because he'd be much worse than Lady or any of the Taken.

>> No.73325391

>>73325343
I've wondered for a while who would win between the Lady with the Taken and Sauron with the Nazgul

>> No.73325440

>>73325364
I finished Shadows Linger not too long ago, I recall it being more that the Lady would be a lesser threat to the company since there's a chance they could get her real name.

Also, I get the impression The Dominator had a tighter hold on his Taken, it seems like The Lady is rarely in control of hers despite torturing the shit out of Limper.

>> No.73325446

>>73325391
Hard to tell.
Black Company magic is more flashy and in your face than LotR (Closest thing we get is the Witch King magic missle'ing Theoden's horse), but Sauron has full conntrol over the Nazgul and at the end of the day Lady and the Taken can at least be incapacitated with somewhat mudane measns; a Morgul Blade would probably do the trick.
I'd say without the ring it's a toss up, with the ring Sauron steamrolls her.

>> No.73325551

Any books with a lot of rape? I've noticed that books written by women tend to have very detailed rape scenes.

>> No.73325598

>>73321274
I liked them as a teenager, but they haven't aged well since I became a relatively well-adjusted and functional adult. I want to go back and look for Christian apologetics in them one day, though.
Donaldson's Gap Cycle had some interesting ideas but it choked itself to death as each book used more and more pages to rehash the previous books.

>> No.73325619
File: 123 KB, 625x626, yhcXUe4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73325619

>>73325551
https://youtu.be/pLijt3R8jeQ?t=5

>> No.73325638

>>73325619
I'm serious. Every time I borrowed a book from the library with a detailed rape scene the authors was a woman.

>> No.73325667

If you can handle ideas more complex then EAT FUCK KILL then I'd suggest Ursula LeGuin and Samuel Delany.

>> No.73325681

>>73325551
>I've noticed that books written by women tend to have very detailed rape scenes.
Every Mercedes Lackey book has a weird rape reference in it, along with some variation of the advice 'lie back and try to enjoy it'

>> No.73325682

>>73321274
I read both Covenant trilogies and I wonder why. Such a fucking depressing cycle of books.

>> No.73325763

>>73325681
That's because rape is her go to device to show that the bad men are bad.
Mercedes Lackey is interesting in a historical context in that her stuff spearheaded a more women centric fantasy themes, but it's ultimately not that good.

Music is nice though.

>> No.73325781

>>73325763
*a lot of women centric

>> No.73326010

>>73325638
Sorry for the bait meme but your initial post was really poorly worded

>> No.73326011

>>73325667
Earthsea Trilogy is so fucking good.
Sailing wizards is such a nice aesthetic.

>> No.73326065

>>73325598
If you really want some Christian apologetics in Donaldson's stuff, you should go to the short stories. The two Reeve the Just stories are just dripping with them, and Unworthy of the Angel is not even trying to hide it anymore tier.

But in general, Donaldson's whole theory of the heroic involves being willing and able to suffer horribly on behalf of the people you're serving, which is pretty much the archetype of Christian apologetics once you strip away a lot of the theology.

>> No.73326142

>>73325763
>Mercedes Lackey is interesting in a historical context in that her stuff spearheaded a more women centric fantasy themes, but it's ultimately not that good.
Andre Norton did it earlier and better.

>> No.73326156

The Burning Isle.

Actually read about a guy on r/homebrew who tried to adapt the magic system in the book to 5e.

>> No.73326213

>>73315496
Yes.

The ideal order to read the Zones of Thought books is A Fire Upon The Deep -> A Deepness in the Sky -> A Fire Upon The Deep, or A Deepness in the Sky -> A Fire Upon The Deep -> A Deepness in the Sky

>> No.73326751
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73326751

Are any of the Black Library High ELves books any good? Prefereably ones that don't feature TT characters?
I'm on an Asur trip right now and want to scratch that itch.

>> No.73326772

>>73326751
Yes, but like all Black Library stuff that's out of print, it's usually pricey

>> No.73326808

>>73326772
The Archieve seems to have most of them. Which ones are worth reading?

>> No.73326822

>>73326808
The Tyrion and Teclis trilogy is good
Otherwise there's the War of Vengeance trilogy, Defenders of Ulthuan, and Sons of Ellyrion off the top of my head

>> No.73326849

>>73326822
thx

>> No.73326982

The Blade Itself and its trilogy are fun, gritty low fantasy books. Inquisitor Glotka remains one of my favorite characters of all time.

>> No.73327040

>>73326982
It's great until the ending, when all character development is rolled back, the badguy goes from at least somewhat grey to cartoonishly evil and the only decent character gets magic cancer. Also one of the worst examples of unreliable narrator.
It's Garth Ennis levels of edginess. Like something fourteen year old me would come up with to show how hardcore my story was.

Shame too since everything leading up to it is excellent.

>> No.73327300

>>73327040
It's been a decade since I read them, so I don't remember a lot of what you're talking about. It's possible you're right, but from what I recall equating it to Ennis' work might be undue hyperbole.

Except when it comes to Faroh or whatever her name was, she was the worst.

>> No.73327392

>>73327300
>Ennis' work might be undue hyperbole.
Entirely possible. It's probably the most pissed off I've been at an ending in my entire life.

>> No.73328261

>>73316649
>>73316700
his series is referenced in the 5e rulebook. but it's sure not the go-to

>> No.73328760

>>73325070
It definitely get weirder in that it starts to draw from other mythologies/inspirations apart from European (which is far from the norm), but it definitely doesn't get bad.

>> No.73329175
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73329175

Book of the New Sun and Dune are ones I'm surprised no ones mentioned

I'll also throw in Vampire Hunter D, the translation isn't great and I suspect the novels wouldn't blow me away even if I understood the original language, but it's one of the more interesting takes on Vampire fiction and Science Fantasy tropes. Definitely deserves its own RPG

>> No.73329221
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73329221

>> No.73329328
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73329328

>>73313941

>> No.73329755
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73329755

>>73323880
Moorcock is famous for being able to write a series of three books with a week of planning and a weekend’s writing when he needs the money. The first Corum trilogy was written in the same way,
The weird thing is I find a lot of the books he wrote ‘to pay the bills’ better than those books he himself is most proud of. The Jerry Cornelius stuff and ‘Dancers at the End of Time’ comes to mind as being just weird in a dumb, boring way. With Corum and Hawkmoon being weird in a good, fun way.
It ties in to my personal theory that deadlines are good for artists (not that Moorcock ever did high art or claimed to, but still) because they focus the creative output wonderfully and ensure the need for tight structure in the writing process, reflected in the work.

>> No.73329949

>>73325364
>They fight the Dominator because he would have it in for them and Lady, not because he'd be much worse than Lady or any of the Taken.

From what I've gathered they fight the Dominator because he's pretty much Chaotic Evil to the Lady's Lawful Evil. He's someone who was so insanely powerful that he never had to learn how to work with others because he could just brute force his way. Also, The Lady kinda makes it clear she IS a good governor, there's just a matter of pesky Rebel rising up and she has to take them down first before she begins improving the land.

>> No.73330369

>>73314783
Cool. Never heard of this triology. I'm a fan of Elric the Necromancer.

>> No.73331154

>>73329175
Vampire Hunter D is overlooked as fuck. Probably because it's Japanese, which is weird because ALL novels are translated to English.

>That was the time. In that pitch-black, superstitious world they appeared. How they—the vampires—kept themselves hidden from the eyes of man and lived on in the luxuriant shadows was unclear. However, their life form was almost exactly as described in legend and they seemed the best suited to fill the role of the new masters of history.

>Ageless and undying so long as they partook of the blood of other creatures, the vampires remembered a civilization the human race could not, and they knew exactly how to rebuild it. Before the nuclear war, the vampires had contacted others of their kind who lurked in dark places around the globe. They had a hidden super-power source that they’d secretly developed in fallout shelters of their own design, along with the absolute minimum machinery required to reconstruct civilization after the absolute worst came to pass.

>But that’s not to say they were the ones who caused the nuclear war. Through cryptesthesia, the black arts, and psychic abilities mankind never guessed they’d cultivated, the vampires simply knew when the human race would destroy itself and how they, the vampires, could restore order to the world.

>Civilization was rebuilt and the tables were turned for vampires and humans.

>> No.73331203
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73331203

>>73321696
I wouldn't really agree about Malazan being political, though. It plays a part, but there's so much MORE to Malazan that politics are just relevant to certain POVs. It's definitely not like ASoI&F where politics seemingly drive everything along.

>> No.73331413
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73331413

Anyone have post apocalyptic horror recommendations? I read a book called The Rising by Brian Keene that was quite good. It was about demons destroying Earth.

>> No.73331884

>>73331154
> Vampire Hunter D is overlooked as fuck
> Literally has official Pathfinder support
How is that overlooked?

>> No.73332720

>>73315496
No, not my cup of tea. It disappointed me in many ways, but I suppose I wanted it to be something it wasn't. The style of writing was tedious, there was too much focus on one particular world and I found the characters a bit dull. Though there were interesting ideas, I didn't enjoy how they were developed.

I wouldn't recommend it, but 3 other anons have so maybe its me that's the problem and not the book.

>> No.73332918
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73332918

>>73331884
>it's real
yo, what the fuck?

>> No.73334049

>>73331203
malazan is overwhelming because the first book almost reads like in medias res, but it's really a kind of background info that makes sense the more you read into the series.

>> No.73334412
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73334412

Nice timekiller if you like novels about organised crime in fantasy. Not as good as Locke Lamora and different theme though

>> No.73334470

>>73331413
Most of the stuff Harlan Ellison writes


Specifically I'd recommend 'I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream' and 'A Boy and His Dog'

>> No.73334617

>>73331413
Agents of dreemland and black helicopters by caitlin kiernan, but it surely is not for everyone

>> No.73334672

>>73321502
It was a huge shame, and it's good people like Lovecraft were able to catch his works.

>> No.73334763

>>73331884
Overlooked in that very few people have actually read it. More people are familiar with the two movies.

>> No.73335031
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73335031

>>73323641
That part of the book is important for parts later on so dont run through it, but yes it is one of the low points in the story. It's on purpose to push her towards other things.

>> No.73335059
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73335059

>>73324572
Agreed, but it's still pretty bad, and I say this as a Tiffany fan

>Tiffan?

>>73324586
Just my opinion; don't bother with anything Snuff and after, and before Mort
>but then I never liked Rincewind, YMMV

Read everything else, only skimmed a couple of Rincewinds, never felt the loss

>>73324597
>favorite
You will never ever ever ever convince me that Hogfather is not THE Discworld novel

>TO BE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE

>>73324625
Refer pic

Read Watch series for full fantasy tropes with humans struggling with dwarves and trolls etc seen through the eyes of a British-style police procedural

Read Death series for, well, Death, and Christmas, and Time; big universe-ending stuff like that

Read Witch series for English literature and folklore deconstruction, lots of Shakespeare and traditional memes. Tiffany Aching is the YA version of same

Read Industrial Revolution series for again full fantasy trope deconstruction Discworld-style, through the eyes of people other than the Watch. Ancient Civilisations is sort of a sub-category of this really. Small Gods is a must if you want to know how Discworld religion works.

My personal ranking of these series goes Death > Watch > Industrial > Witch > Tiffany, but only because I like anything death-related and police procedurals above general fantasy, and frankly I would be just as happy ranking them all #1

Seriously.

>> No.73335086

>>73335059
P.S. reading them in publishing order makes a lot of sense.

>> No.73335370

>>73329949
>there's just a matter of pesky Rebel rising up and she has to take them down first before she begins improving the land.
By cooking them alive and dropping poison gas on them, right.

>> No.73335497

>>73335370
Well, rebels aren't any better and they don't have the excuse of being ancient or evil.

>> No.73335679

>>73335086
Is the order in the chart publication order?

>> No.73335698

>>73313941
Gibson's Sprawl Trilogy

>> No.73335776
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73335776

>>73335497
I guess it's kinda amusing that in Silver Spike we finally see a wizard who realizes the maybe, just maybe, fact they're all backstabbing, power hungry maniacs is the reason for all the shit that's been going down and simply being truthful could be the key to long term stability.

>> No.73335972

>>73335497
Yes.
Because a major theme is that it isn't some clear cut good vs evil thing.

>> No.73337147
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73337147

Does anyoneknow of fantasy books that take place in the Stone/Bronze Ages?

>> No.73337349

I'm currently in book 10 (Small Favor) of Dresden Files, and altough the series as a whole has been ok so far, there was a moment in this book that for some reason cause the most visceral reaction I've ever had while reading a book.

When Michael asks Harry where's his blasting rod and Harry realizes someone fucked with his mind

I swear to god this shit activated my fight or flight response.

>> No.73337367

>>73316857
The Belgariad did tsundere better than any Japanese work I've read or seen.

>> No.73338028

>>73325070
Let's just say, Khatovar is not exactly the place you might think it is.

>> No.73338405
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73338405

>>73338028
SHADOWMASTERS
THEY FEAR THAT NAR BBC
THEY JEALOUS OF NORTHERN SORCERY

>> No.73338475

>>73315056
Absolute patrician taste. Came to this thread to recommend it myself

>> No.73338496

>>73314476
That picture is very comfy.

>> No.73338542

>>73314860
>a metaphysical project that would force every person in history to undergo unimaginable torture and live through a subjective quadrillion years,
Wait, where was that? I recall all the rest but I don't remember something fitting the description.
Do you mean the Transcendence?

>> No.73338551
File: 40 KB, 350x350, photo_20.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73338551

>>73338405
>mentally unbreakable

>> No.73338818

>>73321290
Xeelee Sequence isn't really a fixed narrative.

>> No.73339358

>>73316193
>each spell weighs on the mind

what does that mean? the expression 'weighs on the mind' usually means something you can't stop thinking about...

In my settings, I always translated Vancian magic to work the way it does by making spells be just really complicated to cast and preparation for the day being partial casting

meaning the mages, when they 'prepare' their spells for the day, effectively pre-casting 99.9% of the spell, leaving it at the stage where it can be finished or triggered with as quickly as possible.That seemed like a detail that makes sense of the Vancian system without leaving things too loose.

>> No.73339412

>>73325551
>written by women tend to have very detailed rape scenes.
noticed that as well. but they always manage to take the fun kink out of it, making it all gross and sad.

>> No.73339540

>>73337349
Heh, gettin' gud now.

>> No.73339560

>>73339412
Women aren't funny

>> No.73339592

>>73339540
I've heard that the two big turning points for the series were Dead Beat and Changes (Which I assume is what you're talking about).

>> No.73339792

>>73325070
You get a woman of colour protag who's pretty much asexual.

>> No.73339827
File: 52 KB, 329x500, 51whxsXVsDL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73339827

>>73325111
After Port of Shadows I certainly hope that's the end. By necessity it was a pointless interquel and not even the Domination bits were that interesting.

>> No.73339842
File: 346 KB, 1500x1500, Splash-Cover Concept.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73339842

Isekai /fit/izen

>> No.73340422
File: 29 KB, 301x499, 51i9IXrU1WL._SX299_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73340422

Gonna post a bunch of books I saw at the store. Any of these worth a read?

>> No.73340514
File: 39 KB, 315x475, 42302699._SY475_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73340514

>>73340422

>> No.73340638
File: 192 KB, 651x1000, BestBook.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73340638

Not enough love for pic related in this thread.
The second book was ok, the third one really good, but the first one really shines.

>> No.73340829

>>73340638
Just finished this.
Ultimately a bit disappointed with the bad guy's motivation being so standard, but a fucking great book nonetheless.

>> No.73340889

>>73318353
Now and fucking forever.

>> No.73340924

>>73340829
The second book is a bit of a letdown compared to the first, bit I still recommend it. The third book is a step back in the right direction, though not as good as the first. Is still love it, though it could just be me being shiptrash

>> No.73340946

>>73340422
Faded Sun is great, Cherryh overall does a good job of portraying alien cultures as not just humans but different skin tones. I would also recommend the Foreigner series or Chanur.

>> No.73341199
File: 193 KB, 477x750, The-Bone-Ships.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73341199

I NEED BOOKS
BOOKS ABOUT SHIPS

This was pretty dull. I wouldn't recommend it.

>> No.73341279

>>73341199
Robin Hobb, liveship traders. Say what you will about her other books, the premise for these are great.

>> No.73341436

>>73314783
Sounds like what I've been reading: Evangeline Walton's Mabinogion fictions. Will check this out as well.

>> No.73341547

>>73340946
I forced myself through Heavy Time, Hellburner, and half of Downbelow Station before I gave up. I just couldn't enjoy them despite the premise and setting hitting pretty much all my boxes. The terrible conversion to ebooks did not help, having 80% of all 'the' spelled as 'me', leaving me pretty badly titled after half a book.

>> No.73342445

>>73335679
More or less. But don't worry about it too much, since the books stand on their own for the most part.

>> No.73343862
File: 705 KB, 1590x2400, 1da4f832-ad31-4c8a-9ef5-eaaa216c4c9c_1.706b4fa49ecc7e6ffb61569bbab92310.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73343862

>>73313941

>> No.73343898

>>73337367
Who was tsundere in that, CeNedra? I thought she was just a manipulative bitch.

>> No.73344056

>>73339792
Sleepy is Indian (well, Taglian) and she's only asexual because of all the times her uncles buttfucked her and she actually finds physical contact repulsive. The book from her POV actually has her wondering about fucking Narayan Singh's super hot son who is also a general, so she's not entirely asexual. Frankly it's a much bigger part of her character that she's a devout the-only-god-is-god not-muslim despite fighting in the army of a demigoddess against the god of death, and her god being the only one without any actual physical evidence.

>> No.73344185
File: 1.22 MB, 1244x2041, 6fcf12ac8970149eb05851c11c36670a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73344185

>> No.73344236

>>73344056
What is even the point of your post?

>> No.73344453

>>73344056
Are you just posting because you got triggered by the wording?
Because outside of demonstrating you don't understand the term PoC, you haven't really anything but reiterate what the dude said.

>> No.73344705
File: 48 KB, 288x475, fortress.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73344705

>>73341547
oof, yeah they are not easy books to read even in a clean copy i cant imagine what pain they would be scrambled. I enjoy the merchanter universe but they will slow down even the best reader, they can be super dense at points but the cultures and the interplay of species with wildly dissimilar goals is so damn enjoyable.

She also does a fair pass for fantasy with my personal favorite being the fortress in the eye of time series.

>> No.73344864

>>73323459
Why wouldnt that sword be good at cutting?
Pratchet is being jrr Martin tier of hack there really

>> No.73344916

>>73344864
The reading comprehension of today's /tg/, everyone.

>> No.73344929

>>73324798
Gay and stupid

>> No.73345549

>>73339358
That's sort of how I've always rationalized it too, combined with the similar spell system in dragonlance, where casting the spell burns it from your mind, and that one of the biggest things preventing an average spellcaster from picking up spells from Archmage Oppenheimer's spellbook is that it requires understanding the pronunciation of the specific spell, mental fortitude and physical strength enough to cast it, and the ability to manipulate the nebulously defined magic system to make it do what you want

>> No.73345756

>>73344864
Somewhere, anon, your primary school English teacher weeps bitterly at the waste of her life's work

>> No.73345798

All good literature is /tg/ literature

>> No.73346993

>>73314320
Seconding this. Its legit.

>>73324168
>and indigineous cultures as superior to colonisers
It was pretty clear that everyone sucks. The colonizing empire brings modern medicine, schooling, etc. too, its fairly nuanced in its presentation.

>> No.73347043

If you're in the mood for a long slow burn with occasional manic intensity, The Last Man by Shelly is a really enjoyable, if sad, apocalyptic scifi. If you don't have time for that shit Frankenstein is solid too.

>> No.73347519
File: 47 KB, 327x316, never ever.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73347519

>>73338405
>>73338551
Goddammit, anon. I was laughing for a minute straight.

>> No.73348734

>>73324168
>It is also amazing tale of how one person can betray literally everybody and ruin everything.
perfect

>> No.73348817
File: 228 KB, 880x1360, 810A5CEB-29DB-42F6-9C68-554AB62C82EC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73348817

>>73329175
Book of the new sun is a classic for a reason, but Latro is also a masterpiece.
I’m gonna run a classical era game with that aesthetic someday.

>> No.73348968

>>73337147
>>73348817

Sorry for missing the post. Latro might scratch that itch. It’s antiquity, not Bronze Age proper though.

>> No.73351903
File: 683 KB, 1920x2880, 82458cf1eaca5e46b09f7f79005784ab.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73351903

This is a good thread

I'm gonna throw in 'The Atrocity Archives' by Charles Stross and 'Blindsight' by Peter Watts

>> No.73352061

>>73343898
CeNedra is basically a textbook tsundere, but appearing in a legitimate novel rather than an manga or a LN, so she has a bit more going on under the hood.

>> No.73352121

Does anyone else generally prefer short stories to novel length works? Page limited formats tend to be much more economical with the prose, I find that the writing technique works better than when the author has as much space to dribble however he likes.

Once in a great while I find something longer I like better, but for almost all authors I've read, I think their best short stories are better than their novels.

>> No.73352220

>>73352121
you re into more oldschool literature i imagine. Long book series and stories that drag on and on in their continuity is a fad of the late 20th century

>> No.73352255

>>73313941
The entire cosmere by Brandon Sanderson:
Mistborn Era 1
Mistborn Era 2
Elantris
Warbreaker
The Stormlight Archive
Arcanum Unbounded

>> No.73352281
File: 69 KB, 324x500, 9780340259672-us.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73352281

/tg/, what do you guys think of the Earth's Children series?

>> No.73352311

>>73352220
That's not quite what I was going for. I was really aiming at something more in terms of direct writing technique. Even if it's just a standalone "novel" of 300 pages, you'll tend to have far more verbose descriptions of what's going on than in a 20 page short story for each interaction, instead of simply having about 15 times the number of interactions.

Generally, I've found that as page count increases, a lot of authors fill it up with stuff that doesn't really need to be there to pad out their works, mostly in adding two to three adjectives for a given sentence that don't really add all that much. That sort of sloppiness of technique offends me a little, and short stories are more disciplined, for lack of a better term.

Longer works do have their place, but I find they can only really work when you have one or two focal characters and you're really trying to demonstrate their personal growth. Almost any other theme, that extra length doesn't help all that much, IMO.

>> No.73352355

>>73352255
I didn't really find Mistborn (Era 1) to be all that great. Sure, the magic system(s) were pretty cool, and the guys writes combat extremelly well, but overall it was just ok.

>> No.73352394

>>73329175
Other than the first book and part of the second, Dune is just pseudo-philosophical bullshit that tries way to hard to sound smart instead of focusing on exploring/developing an extremelly interesting setting.
I was genuinely mad when I went into it expecting a sci-fi masterpiece and got a treatise on eugenics and oblique thought.

>> No.73352403

>>73352255
>>73352355
I agree with the second anon. Everything he writes is just so dreary, it takes all the fun out of reading his books even if the contents are theoretically ok

>> No.73352759

>>73352394
> treatise on eugenics
You speak like that's a bad thing

>> No.73352767

>>73315496
It's BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING

>> No.73352779

>>73323881
Seconding this.

>> No.73352829

>>73352403
Is it? Most of the sandy branderson I've read has the heroes triumphing despite the odds. Or heroic sacrifice / rebirth like mistborn 3. Not exactly what I'd call dreary. You say dreary I think something like Blindsight where everyone loses and the moral of the story is that human civilization is an evolutionary dead end.

>> No.73352988

>>73352829
In his worlds living is such a fucking torment. no one ever enjoys existing. Existence itself doesn't enjoy existing

>> No.73353488

>>73352394
>the brainlet
Your problem was your expectations not the book itself. When approaching a so called masterpiece is better not to have huge expectations and preconceptions, no matter if it's film, book or whatever, you are bound to be disapointed.

>> No.73353540

>>73316473
Rainbows End
Diamond Age
Blindsight
Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex

>> No.73353581

>>73316473
Animal Lover, if you like short stories.

>> No.73353648

>>73353488
> >the brainlet
Yes
> huge expectations and preconceptions
But these expectations were built based on what the books themselves gave me. The first two parts of the first book were absolutely wonderful, and so I based my expectations for the rest of the series based on that.

>> No.73353730

>>73352988
I mean kinda. Typically there's some kind of out or a glimmer of hope though. Hell, I'd probably rate Dying Earth as drearier than most Sandyman settings.

>> No.73353784

>>73327040
My boy Jezal deserved better

>> No.73353827

>>73353648
Of the series? Do you mean the first books or later books?

If you mean latter books, yes, many people finds them much inferior to Dune. If you mean Dune, then also yes, the last part was a bit weaker than the rest for me too. The pseudo-phillosophical bullshit is part of the appeal though...what will be like been able to see all the posible futures?

>> No.73353851

>>73339592
It sometimes feels I'm the only one who found Changes jarring and irritating.

>so there's this girl who is his biological daughter, but he never met her and does not expect that to change
>despite that, he is immediately willing to throw away EVERYTHING for her
>principles, morals, own life, lives of his friends, anything
>he admits himself it's stupid and completely irrational
>nobody else comments on it negatively or finds it in any way inappropriate

Do people really find that response admirable/proportional/appropriate?

>> No.73353890

>>73353827
>Do you mean the first books or later books?
Yes. I read up to God Emperor and each book felt weaker than the one before, though even in the first book (as you mentioned) the ending is a bit weaker.
> The pseudo-phillosophical bullshit is part of the appeal though
It just wasn't for me then, I guess

>> No.73353953

>>73353851
Fuck, I really want to read these spoilers but I really don't want to get spoiled.
Am I retarded?

Also, just finished Small Favor and despite being a bit cliched, the final Gruff still made me kek. It's been one of my favorite dresden books so far, even though it felt a bit all over the place

>> No.73354029

>>73353784
They all did.

>> No.73354058

>>73351903
Laundry Files works great until about Annihilation Score where Chuck starts throwing a wobbly about SJWs, Brexit and Orangemanbad and it throws his storyline rather off-kilter

And his superhero parody was utter dogshit.

>>73352121
Yes and no. The top flight authors don't waste many words no matter what length they write.

>>73352220
>oldschool
>short
Do you even Dickens?

>>73352394
Yup

Mainly because Dune and Messiah were supposed to be one book, but got split up by the publisher. Everything after that, Frank was in sequelitis mode.

>> No.73354068

>>73344453
Specifically the asexual bit yes, a real asexual is someone with a mental disease that prevents them from fucking, not someone who has PTSD due to uncle buttfucking

>> No.73354125

>>73354068
So you don't know the meaning of "pretty much" either?

>> No.73354159

>>73353851
It's not rational behavior. Very little about how parents interact with children is. It's a biological imperative, and that trumps higher brain function every time.

>> No.73354337

>>73354159
But he never even saw her. In all ways except genetic, she is just a random stranger. And yet he places her above all his friends.
Guess I'm a sociopath then. But then again I don't like small children and don't want any of my own.

>> No.73354342

>>73354125
Nnnnooooooo

>> No.73354392

>>73315056
Based and cacogenpilled

>> No.73354453

>>73354068
What does that have to do with anything?

>> No.73354506

>>73354337
Genetic is the way that matters, where biological imperatives are concerned. We've got hard-coded directives, just like Asimovs robots, and those directives give zero fucks about our cute little societal constructs. Survive. Procreate. Ensure the survival and procreation of your offspring. One way or another everything we do, everything we are, comes back to that. People will sacrifice for a biological child they don't know in ways they wouldn't for an adopted child they raised from infancy. The brainstem isn't fooled. It's been running kin-selection checks since before our Triassic ancestors could regulate their body temperature. It might not be user-friendly, but it's efficient.

>> No.73354653

>>73354337
>I don't like small children and don't want any of my own.
This is why it doesn't seem to make sense. It's a part of your brain you're not even aware exists. Just another system process running quietly under the hood, occasionally pinging some other system for an update but otherwise lying dormant until it's needed.

>> No.73355440
File: 56 KB, 337x500, 51pxVvkwVeL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73355440

>> No.73356234
File: 424 KB, 589x800, sabriel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
73356234

>>73323881
yeah, that's one of the more unusual fantasy series of this century so far. and it did the whole "magical hadrian's wall" thing at least 100x better than GRRM

>> No.73356397

>>73316081
The first two were brilliant, but they really veered off in book 3 and never got back to what made the series fun in the first place.

>> No.73356514

>>73335059
>You will never ever ever ever convince me that Hogfather is not THE Discworld novel
"As I recall, they used to sing it after battles," he said. "I've seen old men cry when they sing it," he added.
"Why? It sounds cheerful."

“He wanted to go home. He wanted it so much that he trembled at the thought. But if the price of that was selling good men to the night, if the price was filling those graves, if the price was not fighting with every trick he knew…then it was too high.”

>> No.73356640

>>73356234
It’s a real pity that Clariel and Goldenhand dropped the ball so heavily, but at least they’re disconnected enough that they don’t really fuck with the main trilogy

>> No.73357684

The Descent by Jeff Long is a good horror novel about an underground race of semi-human freaks being discovered who steal and torture people in the unknown depths of the earth. Features a lot of exploration of the underworld, referred to as the literal Hell, and humanity's strive to eradicate and exploit it. Underground shit always interests me. Lots of it feels like it could be a good rpg campaign if handled right.

>> No.73357794

>>73351903
>'Blindsight' by Peter Watts

Good shit. I prefer it over Echopraxia. It made a modicum of more sense to me.

>> No.73358095

>>73357794
Blindsight is a much, much better book.

>> No.73358902

>>73313941
on account of having kiddos of my own now, I've come back around to reading all the old YA stuff I remembered from when we were yutes
>Earthsea
>Black Cauldron
>Hero and the Crown
>Shannara
>Redwall
>Bone

I was kinda expecting it to be a nostalgia-tinted crap experience, slightly tempered by leaching off the joy of the young or whatever. but a lot of it is, surprisingly, as good as I remembered.

>> No.73359169

Is Sabriel considered young adult or children literature? There is a copy in my local library.

>> No.73359583

>>73359169
it's considered good

>> No.73359768

>>73359583
Thanks

>> No.73361186

>>73313941
Must be a tiring question for you /tg/uys. What about China Miéville? What do you think of his writing and ideas?

>> No.73361347

>>73361186
He's controversial but I personally love his stuff. Perdito Street Station and the Scar are fucking phenomenal. As is King Rat. Some of his stuff feels a little derivative but is fun anyway like Kraken (basically a neverwhere sequel) or Railsea (Melville, obviously, but ends up feeling more like Terry Brooks).

>> No.73361354

>>73358095
>>73351903
For me his best work is The Things. Blindsight's concept is very interesting, but I'm not so fond of the execution.
His most interesting fictional universe, though, must be the Sunflower one.

>> No.73361426

>>73361354
Justification:
>We are the cave men. We are the Ancients, the Progenitors, the blue-collar steel monkeys. We spin your webs and build your magic gateways, thread each needle's eye at sixty thousand kilometers a second. We never stop. >We never even dare to slow down, lest the light of your coming turn us to plasma. All for you. All so you can step from star to star without dirtying your feet in these endless, empty wastes between.
>Is it really too much to ask, that you might talk to us now and then?
>I know about evolution and engineering. I know how much you've changed. I've seen these portals give birth to gods and demons and things we can't begin to comprehend, things I can't believe were ever human; alien hitchikers, maybe, riding the rails we've left behind. Alien conquerers.
>Exterminators, perhaps.
>But I've also seen those gates stay dark and empty until they faded from view. We've infered diebacks and dark ages, civilizations burned to the ground and others rising from their ashes— and sometimes, afterwards, the things that come out look a little like the ships we might have built, back in the day. They speak to each other— radio, laser, carrier neutrinos— and sometimes their voices sound something like ours. There was a time we dared to hope that they really were like us, that the circle had come round again and closed on beings we could talk to. I've lost count of the times we tried to break the ice.
>I've lost count of the eons since we gave up.
>All these iterations fading behind us. All these hybrids and posthumans and immortals, gods and catatonic cavemen trapped in magical chariots they can't begin to understand, and not one of them ever pointed a comm laser in our direction to say Hey, how's it going, or Guess what? We cured Damascus Disease! or even Thanks, guys, keep up the good work.
>We're not some fucking cargo cult. We're the backbone of your goddamn empire. You wouldn't even be out here if it weren't for us.

>> No.73361467

>>73361426
>And— and you're our children. Whatever you've become, you were once like this, like me. I believed in you once. There was a time, long ago, when I believed in this mission with all my heart.
>Why have you forsaken us?

That sold me on the setting immediately.

>> No.73361578

>>73361354
>>73361426
I haven't read it yet, but I'm gonna. Thanks

>> No.73361678

>>73361578
new bread, fresh from the oven
>>73361091

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