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72599611 No.72599611 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Pic related, need good reads

>> No.72599659

>>72599611
Dune
Roadside Picnic (stalker was based off this) - the strugatsky brothers
The World Engine - black library
Dagon - H.p Lovecraft
Warlord - also black library

>> No.72599676

>>72599659

> Dune

God what a great read, I might give it another round. How do the sequels fare?

>> No.72599689

>>72599611
For light, amusing reads, Discworld

>> No.72599722

>>72599676
Not sure myself I'm still working on the first book and I really am enjoying it so far, I have heard that the books written by his son are mixed in quality.

>> No.72599771
File: 264 KB, 804x1380, dark is the sun cover.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72599771

>>72599611
Dark is the Sun. It's an adventure story in the far distant future, when the Big Crunch is underway, and the sun is a dark spot in the brightness of a sky crowded with countless stars of increasing proximity. Primitive tribes populate a disaster-wracked Earth in the dark ages following the most recent collapse of civilization in a seemingly endless cycle of prosperity and downfall. These barbarians struggle to survive in a savage landscape inhabited by all manner of strange beasts, and littered with technological relics of the past.

I mean, just look at the picture. How can you not be intrigued?

https://mega.nz/#!7sRmHaKa!8lQfa7ZyDLbJMLVYAcmW7FGjF_vRTWv6JtqeDWr_8IA

>> No.72599841

>>72599611
>Pic related
That's not a book, retard

>> No.72599843

>>72599676
>How do the sequels fare?
I'm not a fan. Dune Messiah (book 2) would be fairly good in a vacuum, I suppose, but I found it to be a let down after how fantastic Dune was. You know how some people say that Dune is "pretentious", but it actually pulls everything off, so it's more accurately just "deep"? Well, I feel like there were times in Dune Messiah where shit was convoluted just for the sake of seeming sophisticated, and therefore it was a bit pretentious in places. And Children of Dune (book 3) is just schlock. I had to put the thing down maybe halfway (two thirds of the way?) through. I can't comment on the later books, but nothing I've heard has made me think it's worth the effort of continuing on.

>> No.72599874

If you liked Conan try Kane by Karl Wagner and Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser by Fritz Leiber.

>> No.72600139
File: 247 KB, 1080x1350, 1580093816952.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72600139

The Face in the Frost, John Bellairs (the best Appendix N book you haven't read)
The Elfin Ship, James P Blaylock
The Traveler in Black, John Brunner
The Sorcerer's House, Gene Wolfe (less dark and more accessible than his Shadow of the Torturer books that usually get recommended)
Voyage of the Space Beagle, AE van Vogt
Dumarest of Terra, EC Tubb
Last two are science fiction, but old school from before it split from pulp. Worth your time if you're posting Conan.
>OP's pic
Check out the Solomon Kane stories, also by Howard
Also John Carter of Mars, Edgar Rice Burroughs

>> No.72600192

>>72600139
>John Carter
Muh m8 glad to see other fans here. Fuck them yellow canibalstic incest martians.

>>72599611
Try Malazan Book of the fallen. Not completely the same genre but has many interesting ideas and for fantasy is quite unusual

>>72599676
sequels are incredibly confusing pile of shit full of resurected autistic characters, 0/10. Maybe except for book 2 and 3.

>> No.72600218

>>72599771
reminds me of Greenhouse Hothouse from Brian Aldiss which i didnt really care for. Is this one better?

>> No.72600586
File: 338 KB, 1232x2396, dark is the sun excerpt.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72600586

>>72600218
I liked Hothouse, but I liked Dark is the Sun better, and they're reasonable different. Dark is the Sun is a bit less drug-trip weird. I mean, there are all sorts of crazy beasts and ancient tech, but compared to Hothouse, it definitely feels more grounded. Pic is an excerpt from the book. Deyv is our protagonist (though it becomes more ensemble as the book goes on). He's on a quest to find something that has been stolen from him. Jum is his dog, and Aejip is his (big) cat. They've all just been shocked by getting too near a malfunctioning roadway of the ancients.

>> No.72600646

>>72600586
Yeah, that sounds good, ill look for a copy. Ty anon

>> No.72600984

>>72599722
Dune is the Tolkien of any sci-fi in general and probably the very first ever space opera. Nearly all tropes sci-fi are influenced by Dune one way or another.

Don't bother with the sequels by Frank OR his son. Stop at Messiah.

>>72599843
>Dune Messiah
was actually going to be the last part of Dune itself, but the publisher balked at having a book that thick - if you own the Dune paperback you'll know it's already the size of a brick.

It's a good read and I recommend it as the stop point because it's where there is no real sequelitis yet, as is immediately obvious with Children etc. However, part of the problem is that the end of Dune itself is already so fitting and complete, that Messiah reads like an overly-long and unnecessary Epilogue.

>> No.72601102
File: 918 KB, 1893x2723, fafhrd and the gray mouser.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72601102

>>72599611
Fafhrd and the gray mouser - Fritz Leiber

>> No.72603118
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72603118

>>72599689
Seconding, discworld is pretty great - though they are (mostly) comedy

>> No.72603208
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72603208

>>72599611

>> No.72603232
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72603232

>> No.72603236

>>72599611
Lois McMaster Bujold has some good stuff.
Curse of Chalion for Fantasy (The second and third books are progressively meh, but the side series of novellas are actually good...but don't make much sense without at least reading the second book)
The Vorksogian Saga for Sci-Fi

>> No.72604954
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72604954

>movie recommendation thread
>image of character reading a book
>book recommendation thread
>image from a movie
Is this on purpose?Are you trying to sow confusion and uncertainty?

>> No.72604973
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72604973

>>72599611
I need recommendations too, but ones fill with sexy sences and characters.

>> No.72605086

The once and future King
Being Lancelot and Arthur is absolute suffering

>> No.72605472

Fiction
>Illuminatus Trilogy- Robert Anton Wilson
>Beowulf- The Seamus Heaney Translation
>The Big Sleep- Raymond Chandler
>Roadside Picnic- Strugatsky Bros.
>Norse Mythology- Niel Gaiman
>The Elric Saga- Michael Moorcock
>When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops?- George Carlin


Nonfiction
>The Crusades: Iron Men and Saints- Harold Lamb
>The Invisible Hook: The Hidden Economics of Pirates- Peter Leeson
>Art of Invisibility: The World's Most Famous Hacker Teaches You How to Be Safe in the Age of Big Brother and Big Data- Kevin Mitnick
>Hero of a Thousand Faces- Joseph Campbell
>Area 51- Annie Jacobson (Get the audiobooks, she reads them and her voice can make any man's dick into diamonds)
>When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops?- George Carlin

Modern Arts & Fear Books

>> No.72606227

Am I a pleb because I can't get into Dune? I've tried multiple times but it just loses me.

>> No.72606285

>>72606227
I listened to the first one on audiobook and it was dramatic, I liked the feudal family society.
Then I read the wiki for all the rest of the books. Something about clones, whatevs. Hyped for the movie later this year, hope it's cool.

>> No.72606312
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72606312

>>72603208
Came here to post this.
If you do audio books the last five books were ruined by Wil Wheatons terrible narration.

>> No.72606396

>>72599611
>M John Harrison: Viriconium, Light/Nova Swing/Empty Space
>David Zindell: Neverness/A Requiem for Homo Sapiens
>Mary Gentle: Rats and Gargoyles/The Architecture of Desire/Left to His Own Devices

All excellent reads, but outside the standard rec lists, probably because they're easy to underestimate due to generic-sounding reviews.

>> No.72606443

>>72599611
Book of the Long Sun. It's a comfy, low-powered drama about daily life with vaguely Catholic metaphors set in a generation ship. If Event Horizon was a 40k horror prequel, BoLS is a slice of life 40k prequel.

>> No.72607191
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72607191

J.V. Jones' "Sword of Shadows" series fuckin rules in terms of gritty world building and characters. Unfortunately it isn't finished yet, fourth book came out in 2010 and the author is still working on the fifth.

>> No.72607288

>>72606227
Very soon it's going to be pleb to be into Dune, if not already

>TFW your nerd interests are finally going mainstream, and you hate it

That said, it's not wrong to not get into it. Maybe you're more into Mongolian throat singing, etc. No harm in that.

>> No.72607428

The Solomon Kane stories are great. It's like if the Punisher were a puritan swordsman hunting down heathens and ghouls. From the creator of Conan. His other stuff is really great as well. Kull, Bran Mak Morn, and Kane are all in the same fictional universe, just at different points of history/pre-history.

John Carter of Mars is really interesting to read since it's the granddaddy of science fiction. Just about everything takes from it in some way. Edgar Rice Burrows' writing can be a bit clunky but he knows how to make alien worlds and creature. He also made Tarzan and the Pelucidar series (where a prehistoric world is inside a hollow Earth. Tarzan even crosses over with that series. So there are official stories of Tarzan fighting dinosaurs.

>> No.72607733
File: 39 KB, 309x500, 51WCj8omckL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72607733

>>72604973
The Kushiel series is decent, erotic fantasy. The writing starts off pretty bad, but is decent by the ninth book. Unfortunately, the sex drops off the better the writing gets. So it's a mixed bag, but I enjoyed them.

>> No.72607749

>>72606312
Eh. The last five books are ruined by being about characters and events I don't give a shit about.

>> No.72607781

>>72607288
You're pretentious and stupid. Dune has been popular as fuck since the 80s, when a movie and amazing board game came out. It became popular again in the 90s when one video game retold the story beautifully, and another invented RTS. Then it became popular again because of the documentary about Jabberwockhy whatever his name was.

You're twenty and read your first novel--we get it. But you're still a pretentious little fag.

>> No.72607801

>>72607749
That too. Merlin is such an unlikable character. Remember when Fiona asks for his help dealing with the second pattern because it might destroy the universe and he doesn't because he is soooo busy but then goes and takes a nap and then goes out on a date? Fucking cunt.

>> No.72607822
File: 156 KB, 681x1000, El Borak 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72607822

>>72599611
El Borak by Robert Howard is essentially a 'roided up Indiana Jones. He's an adventurer in the middle east in the early 20th century, battling cults, conspiracies, ancient civilizations, bandits, and other ruthless adventurers. It's Conan with guns essentially, quite fun.

>>72606227
Nah man, you're fine. Herbert made a fantastic world and has a lot of interesting ideas, but his writing style is pretty uneven. I consider the original Dune a masterpiece, but I stopped with Dune Messiah. I found the book too dull and full of navel gazing to be enjoyable. He was a smart guy with some interesting takes on philosophy, but it seems like he got very indulgent as time went by.

>> No.72607835

>>72607801
I barely remember them at all. Still reread the first five every couple years (in fact, just started rereading last week). But those I read decades ago and have never had a desire to pick back up. And I like all Zelazny's other novels, and his writing generally. It's just that I was so pissed that I had found out "wait there's five more books of Amber?" and then spoiler: it wasn't Corwin.

>> No.72607836

>>72607733
>reading books written by women

>> No.72607869

>>72607836
Well that's a new level of dumb. Jane Austin is incontrovertibly the greatest novelist who ever wrote in English.

And if you haven't read CJ Cherry or Robin Hobb, then you should leave /tg/. Cyteen and living ship are amazing, but skip soldier son because you'll want to kill yourself by the time you finish.

>> No.72607883
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72607883

>>72607801
>>72607749
desu despite corwin being the best girl, first book is absolutely the best without comparsion.

On the other note, opinion on pic?

>> No.72607903

>>72607883
I never got into his short stories. Maybe read a couple, but don't know much about them.

>> No.72607915

>>72607869
i ve read the trilogy about mri (dont recall names) and some ideas were good, but alltogether didnt really catch me.

I ve read fucking darkover too and by god those were horrible.

Jane austin isnt my cup of tea and i ve never heard about Robin Hobb

>> No.72607931

>>72599611
Brandon Sanderson - The Way of Kings
Gene Wolfe - Book of the New Sun
Pat Rothfuss - The Name of the Wind
Mark Lawrence - Prince of Thorns
Steven Erikson - Malazan Book of the Fallen
Jim Butcher - Dresden Files
Anthony Ryan - Bloodsong

>> No.72607950

>>72607835
The audiobooks are only 6-ish hours long and I often have them playing while I'm working or doing dishes or walking or etc. I probably listen to the first five books once or sometimes twice every couple months. All five books combined come in shorter than most Stephen King books so it's not as crazy as it sounds.
So I have gone through the first five in text or audio form probably over 20 times easily.
But I haven't had the stomach to go through the second five again. Just once for those.

>> No.72607955

>>72607931
>Anthoony ryan - Bloodsong
Really? I quite liked the first book but then it turned into eragon tier clusterfuck. Is this series liked here?

>> No.72608024

>>72607915
If you read enough, you'll like Jane Austin eventually. Stories and plots are all pretty interchangeable. The real fun and skill are in the writing. Jane Austin could'a written a novel about taking a fat shit after too much Taco Bell, and it'd be better than any fantasy or sci fi novel you've ever read.

But CJ Cherry is a mixed bag. Her merchantman whatever trade union universe novels (of which Cyteen is one) are mostly good. The rest of her novels are mostly bad. Robin Hobb is simply excellent. Go find some and read it, and you'll enjoy. But not Soldier Son, which is still excellent. It's just really depressing.

>> No.72608061

>>72608024
Could the alure of Austin be in the use of language, because as nonnative speaker it might be hard to appreciate. We have too some authors that i would consider nigh untranslatable because of the special use of language and naration

>> No.72608095

>>72608061
>nonnative speaker
Oh. Well then yeah. They're just novels about ditzy girls being boring.

>> No.72608140

>>72607955
dunno, i just assume when people rec it they mean the first book alone.

>> No.72608269

>>72607931
for a modernish fantasy starting point this is solid enough. i'd throw in brian stavely and scott lynch.

>> No.72608360

>>72607955
Yeah, it's pretty widely accepted that (on here and /lit/ at least) that the first book is solid, but he goofed hard on the follow-ups.

>> No.72608373

>>72599611
Conan is great, but don’t forget to read the chronicles of Kull

>> No.72608395

>>72600984
>was actually going to be the last part of Dune itself, but the publisher balked at having a book that thick
Yeah, I heard that, but I still think it's a noticeable step down in quality.

>> No.72608465

>>72600646
>Yeah, that sounds good, ill look for a copy.
As far as I know, it's long been out of print, so you'd probably have to get it used, or go with the ebook version I linked.

>> No.72608473

>>72608360
even in first book it bugged me, why noone in that religious order belives in that religion they have, but fucking god the later books were painful

>> No.72608492
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72608492

>>72599611
Lies of Locke Lamora. Pretend the other books don't exist (the second one isn't bad, but it painfully follows the same formula)

>>72607931
>Pat Rothfuss - The Name of the Wind
Definitely a case of different strokes for different folks here

>> No.72608780

>>72606227
I think the key to Dune is that you have to read it relatively quickly. It's dense with information, and I think you'd begin to lose details if you just read a couple dozen pages a week. Plus, you'd be fighting (remaining at rest) inertia the whole way. When I first started reading Dune, I put it down after a handful of pages, thinking it was to dense, dry and not enough fun. That wasn't much of a fair chance, but then again, I think I was in 4th grade at the time, and maybe a bit younger than its target demographic. When I finally decided to give it a real go, I was in college, and it probably took me until I was more than a dozen pages in before it really started rolling. At that point, however, everything clicked, and Herbert's style was no longer the slightest obstacle. I had effectively started the rock rolling, and it just kept going. I absolutely devoured the book.

So I'd say that if you want to give it a fair chance, keep this in mind. Set some time aside and try to read at least 40 or 50 pages at a time, with no more than a day or two between readings. The faster, the better. You should be able to polish the thing off in a couple of weeks.

Of course, that's assuming you've stopped reading the book. If you've made it all the way through, then maybe it just isn't the book for you. If you went slowly, then a faster reading might help, but I don't know that it would change your mind at this point. Jokes aside, Herbert's prose is a bit dry and matter-of-fact, and I think that some people find that the book lacks warmth and personality for that reason. And I can understand that, even if it doesn't affect me like that. But I've tried unsuccessfully to make it through the Lord of the Rings three different times (it's always the Two Towers that does me in), so I can relate to not being able to get into something everybody else seems to love.

>> No.72608827

>>72608465
i didnt realize he was the resurrecting river guy

>> No.72608831

>>72606285
Listening to audio books is always a route to consider, though I have to say that whichever version I tried to listen to was just bad. I don't think the narrator was a good choice, and it also felt like the book didn't translate very well to the medium. The dialogue in particular just sounded off. I quickly gave up on that, not wanting it to taint my memory of the book.

>> No.72608970

>>72607781
NAYRT, but I guess it largely depends on how mainstream we're talking. Dune is certainly not obscure, but it's not mainstream in a way like Lord of the Rings is now, after the movies. I'm not actually a fan of the LotR books, so I can't really identify, but I'm sure there are some people who are irritated by a vapid, shallow enthusiasm for LotR by folks who have only seen the movies.
Thankfully that shitty Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie didn't make it big, or I might feel the same way about it. Maybe Doctor Who? As a long time fan of classic Who, which was a subculture thing here in the States, I'm rather annoyed at how "precious" new Who has become, and I feel like some of its issues may come from becoming too mainstream.

>> No.72608995

>>72608970
> Dune is certainly not obscure, but it's not mainstream in a way like Lord of the Rings

That depends on age and/or involvement with scifi literature. Before the LOTR movies, Dune and LOTR were on the same strata.

>> No.72609028

>>72608827
Oh, is some character pulled from another of his books? I've only read a couple other books by Farmer, and frankly wasn't that into them.

>> No.72609048

>>72609028
sorry for confusion anon, i meant the authoor

>> No.72609088

>>72608995
>Before the LOTR movies, Dune and LOTR were on the same strata.
Maybe. My personal experience is that more artsy, cultured types (or those who wanted to be or to be seen as such) had read LotR, but that's just anecdotal and might be a coincidence. (There were also additional people who had read the Hobbit, and therefore had a bit of insight into the world, and they maybe started reading LotR or were at least somewhat familiar with the story via word of mouth.) But regardless, I am very much talking about the impact that the movies had.

>> No.72609444

Sharpe, all of them, you won't regret it.
It will make you want to play a soldier in your next game.

>> No.72609482

>>72607191
I remember reading these only problem is I can't remember anything about them.

>> No.72609932

>>72607781
I can't tell if this is genuine or hyperbole. Either way I don't think its pretentious that I couldn't get into the book. What I read I didn't think was bad but it didnt capture me. If your post wasn't hyperbole I feel sorry you got so angry.

>> No.72609999

>>72608780
I think you might be right. I was reading it on breaks at work, and was rather distracted by other matters. What I read was interesting though. Next time I have a lot of free time I'll try it again and read it more quickly. Thanks for the input, truly!

>> No.72610707

>>72608492
Holy shit. Beta Orbiter, the novel, a /tg/ rec? What the fuck?

>> No.72611074

I'm reading El Borak right now and it's great! Indiana Jones just doesn't compare.

>> No.72611295

>>72599611
All of these have already been mentioned but I am convinced that literally anyone's enjoyment of tabletop would be enhanced by reading Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, and Elric stuff. It's the holy trinity of sword and sorcery.

>> No.72611481

>>72611295
I tried to get into a Conan book and I found it hard to follow in a way.
It was just like the way the story unfolded and flowed was weird to me. It started with Conan climbing an impossible cliff for like three days (just like that scene on god of war) and then finding a cave with a dead man in it, then he climbed more and reached the top and traveled the wilderness. Then he came to a city and approached the king and the king knew of his reputation and let Conan train his army. Then Conan trained the army while planning to steal the kingdoms treasure.
I'm not really abbreviating there that is basically all the detail you got. It didn't start feeling like an actual story instead of a set of bullet points until he snuck into the temple to steal the treasure and he started encountering characters and having conversations and thoughts and memories. Weird stuff.

>> No.72611670

>>72607781
Oh fuck off, Dune is nowhere near LOTR in the popular consciousness and you know it.

>>72608061
Mainly the language and for Anglophiles the country English setting. Really I only like Pride & Prejudice plotwise because it is quite insightful. Never really got into the others.

>>72608395
I believe it's an artifact of having to restructure Messiah as a "standalone" sequel instead of attached chapters. Children is where he really goes downhill, and dear Leto it tells.

>>72608780
I read it through in 2 days hardly sleeping, reading while eating, and practically skipping school for all that went in my head. (But then I read a lot.) That's how utterly hooked I was. The story itself is very straightforward. What takes time to process are the masses of quotations, poems and scriptures in the book.

E.g. when Chani finds out what Paul is, he exclaims a religious quote: "I have two eyes, I have two feet". What this means is only obvious on a second, slower read.

>>72608995
Well yeah. As was ASOIAF before GOT. But this is post-PJ, post-GOT world now.

>> No.72612588

David Gemmell's Legend and his Drenai novels in general have done a lot to inform me as to how to play a warrior who is good without being falling into the mire of having a superhero syndrome. There's a clear morality in his work but also an acknowledgement that people are people and can do bad things but doing bad does not necessarily mean that they are 100% bad. It's not a Drenai novel but Morningstar is a really interesting one to me because there's a lot of meditation on the cyclical battle of good and evil.

>>72611481
That's sort of a hallmark of Howard's writing and maybe sword and sorcery in general. There isn't a lot of introspection and internals - it's just men of action doing.

>> No.72615837

>>72609999
No problem. I hope it clicks for you.

>> No.72616084

>>72599611
Saberhagen's Book of Swords and Book of Lost Swords novels

Most of Moorcocks stuff, but especially his Eternal Champion characters. Corum, Elric, Erkose, Hawkmoon, etc

>> No.72616131

>>72600139
>The Face in the Frost, John Bellairs
Good man, love this book to bits. Absolutely godly mixture of wizard antics and Jamesian horror.

>> No.72616309

>>72607822
>>72611074
Sounds cool, will try and find it

>> No.72616540

I'm reading Dune at the moment, love the world, not feeling much of the characters, Paul in particular really is a fucking freak. Just finished the first part and I'm glad he knows he's weird.

>> No.72616624

>>72607428
>Bran Mak Morn
Woefully underrated. These stories, and other stories featuring the Picts, are all of them fantastic.

SPEAK O NIGHT WINDS OF MAN'S CREATION
WHISPER O'ER CRAG AND FEN
THE TALE OF THE FIRST GREAT NATION
THE LAST OF THE STONE AGE MEN

>> No.72616698

>>72611481
Anon, read The Tower of the Elephant, you'll be glad you did.

>> No.72616804

>>72611670
>I read it through in 2 days hardly sleeping, reading while eating, and practically skipping school for all that went in my head. (But then I read a lot.) That's how utterly hooked I was.
My experience was similar. I started reading the book when it was already late at night and after about 40 pages, I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore, so I put down the book and passed out. I woke up in the morning, picked up the book and started reading without even getting out of bed. I skipped all my classes, and only paused my reading to go to the bathroom or to grab something I could eat while reading. I read all day and into the night, and managed to finish it before my day was done. Normally, I'm not the fastest of readers, but I absolutely tore through that book.

>> No.72618657

>>72607869
Jane Austin is boring. The only female fiction writers I’ve ever enjoyed reading were A.C. Crispin and Ayn Rand.
Don’t (You) me.

>> No.72618871

>>72607869
>Jane Austin is incontrovertibly the greatest novelist who ever wrote in English.
That's just autistic.

>> No.72618895 [SPOILER] 
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72618895

>>72599611

>> No.72619317

>>72616540
>I'm reading Dune at the moment, love the world, not feeling much of the characters
Characters in Dune have motivations, beliefs and abilities, but Herbert doesn't spend a lot of time on their personalities, which I think can make it difficult for some people to identify with them. There's also the fact that the characters are exceptional people in situations of extraordinary danger that require them to be logical and efficient if they wish to remain alive, so most of them don't have a lot of space to be personable.

>> No.72619358

>>72619317
To follow up on this, the people I know who weren't very impressed with Dune have tended to be character people. They want colorful characters with interesting personal interactions, and that's really not the focus of Dune. It's like wanting Firefly and getting a realistic docudrama on a platoon of soldiers in Vietnam.

>> No.72620594
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72620594

>>72599611
Read this one a while back. Has a lot of dry fantasy politics in it, but it does it well and the some of the concepts with different types of magic they have going on are just plain badass.

>> No.72623845

>>72604973
Clan of the Cavebear, you degenerate coomer

>> No.72624276

>>72599611
1d4chan is dead (probably for good), but the list is relatively up-to-date, lacking just few minor tweaks from past few months:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190608033630/https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Approved_literature#Shunned.2FHated

>> No.72624594

>>72599611
I actually liked the Diablo books, but that's because I love Diablo I. I'm too biased to be critical of the writing.

>> No.72624978

>>72619358
The characters are quite well developed, especially Leto, Yueh, Jessica, Paul, even Gurney. They're not charming people, but they're deep and have strong personalities. They're also good representations of strong and powerful nobility and chief executives, in stark contrast to GRRM's "everyone is secretly fucked-up" approach.

Of course, the modern generation expects rebellious characters with violent passions and appetites, and quips by the dozen. The closest you get to that in Dune is the Harkonnens. Make of that what you will.

>>72616540
That's kind of the point of Paul's arc actually. Paul starts off as a nobleman's kid being groomed for command, and ends up having to choose between being a nobody and being the Messiah-God-Emperor of Mankind. He tried to walk the balance, delay the choice, and ultimately failed. Unfortunately to depict that struggle, his characterisation has to grow more and more inhuman, until we only see glimpses of his individuality.

>> No.72625845

>>72619317
>>72619358
I'm actually a massive lorefag, never been into super deep complex highly interpret-able characters, so all the little titbits about the Bene Gesserit School and Spacing Guild are fascinating. The Missionaria Protectiva is a concept that by itself would be worthy of a whole novel, seeding ideas of prophecy and legend into primitive cultures to protect the organization for centuries (if not millennia) to come. The little implications here and there that Guildsmen are scary and weird is awesome, it's been mentioned like twice, once before they leave for Arrakis and once near the end of the first section where Paul thinks 'I don't want to be a Guild freak'. I'm aware they're actually weird mutant monsters because of the movie, though.

Out of all the characters I probably like Yueh, Jessica and Leto the most. Yueh is very human and I feel for him. Jessica has her Bene Gesserit hyperawareness mind control shit that otherwise would make her very alien, but she really seems to love her family. Leto seems like a good man, too. I really like their relationship. It was pretty sad the way Leto had to appear suspicious of her.

>> No.72626196

>>72625845
>they're actually weird mutant monsters because of
Dune Messiah. The movie depicts them more or less exactly as Edric is described. And Paul could eventually have become that.

Yeah Dune is packed with ideas, most of which have become scifi tropes. It's also what distinguishes it from the sequels - it's clear that Frank ran out of ideas halfway through Children.

>and his kid is a moron probably being carried 99% by Kevin

>> No.72626847

>>72626196
Are the books after the first really worth it? I don't want to tarnish the experience I'm having now with lesser material, regardless of how gay that sounds. The anons here were saying Messiah is like a massively extended epilogue, is it required reading to get the full story?

>> No.72627357

>>72623845
The whole earth's children series really
>Oh jondalar! Jondalaaaarrrr!

>> No.72627468

>>72626847
One of them was me

No, it's not required at all. There are no new mind-blowing concepts - well, maybe two, but nothing important - so it's just knowing what Paul's career as Emperor is like.

>> No.72628490

>>72618657
wut about le guin or mccffrey?
i unironically enjoyed pride and prejudice, but cant get into shit like james joyce

>> No.72628558 [SPOILER] 
File: 2.90 MB, 1075x600, 1589745944331.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72628558

>>72607869
>Jane Austin is incontrovertibly the greatest novelist who ever wrote in English.

>> No.72628571

>>72599611
I've been chipping away at Black Company and Clavell's Asian Saga, Shogun is just as enjoyable the second time around. I heard Gai-Jin was the worst, has anyone read it?

>> No.72628629

>>72626847
I'd say no. You could maybe make a case for Dune Messiah in understanding Herbert's vision of Paul's arc, and appreciating how it was intended as a warning about the pitfalls of idolizing heroes, but I frankly would've been happier just having read Dune and having everything I experienced about that world be truly stellar in quality. Like I said earlier in the thread, Messiah is not a bad book by any means, but it in no way lives up to its predecessor. Children of Dune is trash.

>> No.72628871

>>72603232
I really like Black Company audio books. Marc Vietor is the shit.

>> No.72628997

>>72607428
It's kind of a shame that pretty much everything from Howard that's not Conan got overlooked. Solomon Kane somehow managed to gain recognition.

>> No.72629067

>>72619317
>which I think can make it difficult for some people to identify with them.

I've noticed this is really a modern trend with readers. They need to FEEL for the characters or it's a bad book for them.

>> No.72629090
File: 297 KB, 1280x773, Schools-of-Dune-Trilogy-1-3-MP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72629090

>>72625845
Just don't read the prequels. They deliberately set out to dispel any mysticism and mystery original books had.

>> No.72629226
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72629226

>> No.72629238

>>72604973
Achaja is literally just porn with some fantasy scenes, though no idea if it's in any language but polish

>> No.72629316

>>72603232
How is Cook's Instrumentalities of the Night series?

>> No.72629367

>>72629067
>book's called dune
>is objectively dry
just embrace your tastes

>> No.72629376

>>72599611
Nightfall. Mickey Zucker Reichert.

>> No.72629629

>>72629367
they just want characters to be immediately defined and likeable

>> No.72630363

>>72628571
Yes, and it isn't bad. The era when it plays is the most modern (well, except for Whirlwind), but it isn't bad.

>> No.72632420
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72632420

>>72607931
I'm genuinely surprised to see Brandon Sanderson only mentioned here once considering how immensely popular and highly regarded his work is. Maybe it's because the Stormlight Archive series is less than a decade old?

Great series, it's a bit of Dune meets Wheel of Time.

>> No.72632504
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72632504

>>72599611
Hardwired is the novel that inspired Mike Pondsmith to write Cyberpunk, and he didn't read the Sprawl Trilogy until after he had finished writing the first edition of it. If you have read the Sprawl Trilogy, it's a great companion to it for the stylistic gorgeousness, the world it presents, the attitudes and tech depicted and the general feel of the book.

>> No.72632534

>>72632420
I think a lot of people here assume that people here have read it already, or don't like it/isn't their thing for various reasons. Kind of like aSoIaF.

>> No.72632742

>>72632420
I like the snibetti snabs

>> No.72632846
File: 6 KB, 279x181, index.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72632846

>>72607191
>>72607191
Book of Words

>> No.72634088

>>72629067
>>72629629
>implying having a cast of characters you give a smidgen of a shit about is a bad thing
Listen I like aesthetically-driven fiction as much as the next guy, I devour Victorian and Edwardian era fiction where protagonists are blank narrators, but you say this as if there's something lesser about wanting good characters.

>> No.72637678

Earthsea, Thomas Covenant, The Gap Cycle, Pern, Elric, Foundation and Empire, Ringworld, Neuromancer, Gormenghast, Amber, World Of Tiers, Riverworld, The Night Land, House On The Borderland, The Wild Boys, Musashi, Shike, Illuminatus! and generally anything by Lovecraft, Poe, Harlan Ellison, William S. Burroughs, or Hunter S. Thompson.

>> No.72638045
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72638045

If you're a fan of Conan or Howard's other works, consider reading his letters, too.
They give insight into his influences and way of thinking, and can give you a different perspective on his writing.

>> No.72638056
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72638056

>>72638045
Sorry wrong photo

>> No.72638382
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72638382

>>72599874
>Kane by Karl Wagner
underrated

>> No.72638483

>>72608492
I enjoyed Republic of Theives (up until the ending) more than Red Seas

>> No.72638619

>>72638382
I completely agree.

>> No.72638673
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72638673

Has anyone here read Glory Road? It's a whimsical story about a Vietnam veteran getting isekai'd to a fantasy world. Highly underrated.

>> No.72638718
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72638718

>>72599611
It's a series of short stories but I've gotten a lot of mileage out of it for getting into the mindset of people who struggle with being content in the shadow of the stuff they regret. It's good NPC stuff for games that center around a town where player characters will be seeing the same people around session after session.
Channel Carver for a PC's parents and you'll probably make him feel things he plays games to avoid feeling.

>> No.72638852

>>72599676
>How do the sequels fare?
Messiah is excellent, Children are good, God-Emperor is ok/meh, and anything beyond isn't worth the time; Heretics (IIRC) only did one interesting thing, namely confirmed that tleilaxu women do exist

>> No.72638867

>>72599611
Hyperion Cantos is a must read

>> No.72639198

Never got around to finishing the series myself, but what's /tg/'s opinion on Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series?

>> No.72639357

>>72639198
>Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series?

In a way it was a series released at the right time to capitalize on fantasy. I think it's pretty mediocre otherwise.

>> No.72639630

>>72629067
That complaint is strange too because the writer can't help but narrate every single thing a character is thinking at once.

>> No.72639651

>>72599611
Joe Abecrombie - First Law
one of the best i read

>> No.72639683

>>72639651
Abercrombie was a fun read, I like how basically every character is an asshole in one way or the other

>> No.72639795

>>72639683
> I like how basically every character is an asshole in one way or the other

If that's your thing you'll love the Second Apocalypse series by Bakker.

>> No.72640175

>>72618657
If we are talking female writers, I'll give you those I think are good from the ones I've read:
Le Guin
Carol Berg
Celia Friedman
Michelle West
Jemisin
Philippa Ballantine
I have chosen to read different female writers on purpose, because I find their writing fundamentally different than men's, and the problem is that most of the well known ones aren't that good.

>> No.72640211

>>72638483
It felt too much of a "to be continued" case to me and it's really annoying with how long the Thorn of Emberlain is taking to come out. I did read it when it came out, too.

>> No.72640231

>>72640175
My go-to women are Jodi Picoult and Karen Traviss

>>72634088
It's not that. The Dune cast are relatively well-developed. But what readers seem to want these days are what previously would have been considered larger-than-life wisecracking supremely-confident smart-arses - basically most anyone you see in the MCU - and dismiss any other characterisation as "boring".

I agree such characters can be fun. But not ALL characters need be that way.

>> No.72640272

>>72638867
I find it weird, that nobody talks about this ,when it has such religious undertones. I expected someone to complain for sure, but maybe four books is too long for many people and the first and third book do seem to drag on by themselves, as they are the setup for second and fourth.

>> No.72640306

>>72639357
I think ,that despite belonging to the so called "chosen one" trope, it is one of its few successful implementations and maybe the best.
Also I think the bad is mostly contained to certain character perspective chapters.

>> No.72640345

>>72640175
Jemisin? Really? What makes you like her?

>> No.72640404

>>72640345
The worldbuilding, character interactions and motivations work really well. Her three fantasy series are quite different too.
I guess she doesn't have the singular characters, which can dominate an entire story, but they are mostly moved by the events in the world around them.

>> No.72640683
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72640683

>>72599611
I think Vance's Dying Earth stories get recommended often enough, but his Lyonesse trilogy is often overlooked while being much more appropriate for medieval fantasy.

>> No.72640768
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72640768

I liked this series a lot growing up. its called The Riftwar Saga by a guy named Raymond E Feist. its 3/4 books (first book is often split into two) and they are

Magician: Apprentice
Magician: Master
Silverthorn
Darkness at Sethanon

its a pretty cool setting and has planar shit happening but in an overall low magic setting, dragons are stupendously rare dwarves and elves exist. its coming of age stories for the most part and the best of any of the follow ups in Midkemia since he wrote so many books is probably the Talon of the Silver Hawk Books

>> No.72640791

>>72640768
>suggesting The Riftwar Cycle to people
Do you want them to read until they die of old age? Also, imagine being a fan back in the day.

>eagerly expecting two new books
>author decides they'll be video games instead
>have to wait for novelizations

>> No.72640831

>>72640791
they arent super long books. I'm not gonna suggest people go through every single book like I did growing up. there are some of them better than others. the Riftwar Saga is a good introduction to the world. you can almost pick and choose from there.

that being said, theres about 30 books so I know whatcha mean

>> No.72640918

>>72600984
>if you own the Dune paperback you'll know it's already the size of a brick.
...huh. My copy of Dune isn't particularly big, but turns out it's 500+ pages and the text is pretty small.

Then again, I also have quite a few books with page count in the 800+ range.

>> No.72640958

>>72604973
The Kobold Wizard's Dildo of Enlightenment +2

Bought it as a joke. It's better than you'd think.

>> No.72640979
File: 215 KB, 1000x750, DunePaperback.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72640979

>>72640918
Eh.

>> No.72641016

>>72640404
The Fifth Season was probably the worst novel I've ever read. It's what made me quit paying attention to Hugo awards.

>> No.72641037
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72641037

>>72638056
That Lovecraft collection or this one?

>> No.72641090

>>72640979
Yeah, my copy is about as thick as most of my other paperbacks with ~300 pages. Definitely pretty thin paper. Can't be arsed to post picture.

>> No.72641199
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72641199

>Ayn Rand

Seriously, though, what's her best book?

>> No.72641278

>>72639198
>>72639357
>>72640306

Eye of the World is worth reading. Then keep going until you're tired of it. Don't keep reading it if you're tired of it. If you don't get through the second book, that's fine, you won't be the first.

>> No.72641369

>>72641016
It was kind of a downer, but I liked the triple temporal same character perspective.

>> No.72641374
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72641374

>>72641199
There are none.

She fled from a brutal communist regime as a child and it damaged her mentally so much that she created a reactionary "philosophy" where the free market was GOD. Her books are shittily written and are only good for young republican freshman business majors to jerk off to at night.

Lemme sum up Atlas Shrugged for you.

"we are on a train which is a metaphor for a penis!"
"we ordered skilled laborers to build this railroad track! This makes US the MOST IMPORTANT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD! EVERY OTHER PERSON IN THE WORLD OTHER THAN VENTURE CAPITALISTS ARE GARBAGE PARASITES FEEDING OFF OUR GENIUS! WE ARE THE MUSIC MAKERS! WE ARE THE DREAMERS OF DREAMS!"
"That makes me so hot lets bang!"
"YES! VENTURE CAPITALISM! MAKE LOVE TO ME ON THIS METAPHOR!"

fin.

>> No.72641382

>>72641278
The books aren't tiring until far later, when you get multiple Elayne, Perrin and Faile perspective chapters.

>> No.72641403

>>72641199
If you agree with her politics Atlas Shrugged. If you don't then you probably shouldn't read her. I like her, but I understand that it's mostly because I agree with most of her opinions.

>> No.72641404

>>72600192
My man.
Malazan book of the fallen is a great series of books.

I am trying to get my hands on some of the stuff from Asimov.

>> No.72641434

>>72641369
I hated the prose and grammar. The structure of her books is bad in my opinion. It reminds me of Chuck Wendig (who I also dislike).

>> No.72641470

>>72599659
Roadside Picnic is gr8 classic scifi, very atmospheric and weird.

>>72601102
Been meaning to start reading this.

>>72599611
My own recommendations (both pretty recent compared to most stuff so far) would be Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky and (at risk of an IP ban) The Grey Bastards by John French.

>> No.72641524

>>72641434
Do you mean about them being written in some weird perspective?
That has to do with the ending of the series. It was kinda annoying at the start.

>> No.72641706

>>72641470
I agree with the Children of Time recommendation. While I was reading it, I couldn't help but think about Star Trek's latest iterations and its fans reactions to them shitting on their former ideals.

>> No.72641776

>>72599611
Sword of Rhiannon - Leigh Brackett

>> No.72641929

>>72607733
>The writing starts off pretty bad
This is true.
I couldn't get through the first book. I probably can't be bothered to give it a new try.

>> No.72642141

>>72638673
Read it ages ago as a teen.
It really was good, as I recall.

>> No.72642192

>>72642141
Thanks, I completely agree but it seems like no one has heard of it.

>> No.72642294

>>72618657
>McAffrey
She's half-decent, only one i've known who've managed to write "father who hates the shit out of his son" convincingly. Le Guin is way overrated though, try finding a genuine fan of her works that can tell you more about it beyond the Earthsea "tweeeest" or the shitty political subtext of TLHoD and Tehanu.
>>72640175
>Jemisin
Multibait.

>> No.72642340
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72642340

Tunnel in the Sky is another book I'd recommend. A group of kids get trapped on a primitive alien planet and have to work together to survive. It's basically Lord of the Flies but the kids are competent.

>> No.72642362

>>72599676
depends, in what setting?

>> No.72642374

>>72640175
>>72642294
If you want an actually good female writer check out C.L. Moore. She was friends with Robert E. Howard and Lovecraft and actually wrote a book with them.

>> No.72642402

>>72642374
Leigh Brackett is the best woman contemporary of REH and HPL imo.

>> No.72642407

Hot opinions coming in:
Atlas shrugged is great GM guide and how you should be treating games. You are running the game not the players. They are there because they agree that your ideas and should remember that they are not in democracy.

Otherwise Meekhan by Robert Wegner are amazing in succéding mixing black company, malazan, Elric and Grey mouser in magical not Holy roman Empire just after 30 years war with all the consequences of that.

Anyway are there any books about non magical operators dealing with monsters with préparation ans traps?

>> No.72642483

>>72642407
>Meekhan by Robert Wegner

Never heard of it but I'll check it out, sounds cool.

>> No.72642535
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72642535

>>72642294
>Le Guin

The only book I've read is The Left Hand of Darkness, which is about a white human male who goes as an emissary to a primitive, frozen planet full of post-human turbotrannies. It was excellent. Unironically one of my favorite pieces of sci-fi or fantasy.

Oh, and The Ones who Walk Away from Omelas. I actually hate that one but it made me think.

I heard of Earthsea years ago but I still haven't read any. Le Guin really caught my attention through pic related. It's a collection of essays from authors talking about how Tolkien influenced them, and most of them are fluffy nostalgia-pieces, but Ursula's essay was a brief discussion of the "music" theme in Lord of the Rings followed by an autistic meter-based breakdown of every line spoken by Tom Bombadill.

Ursula K. Le Guin was a fuckin boss.

>> No.72642692

>>72632420
Brandon Sanderson is an awful, boring writer and his books are blamd and uninteresting

I dropped the Way of Kings early on because it was sooooooo fucking bad

>> No.72642709

Avoid all modern fantasy written in the 2010s unless it's made by chinks or self-published like Wight, the publishet stuff died with Gene Wolfe.
That is if you don't want to get an overdose of american-flavoured onions in your novels. Much bigger waste of time than looking through bad webnovels to find the good ones.

>> No.72642737

>>72642535
>white man
Ai is black, my dude. But I agree that Le Guin is fantastic and criminally underrepresented within the larger culture.

>> No.72642767

>>72642709
I agree that most modern fantasy books suck but there are a few hidden gems.

Second Apocalypse by R. Scott Bakker and First Law by Joe Ambercrombie are good.

>> No.72642784

>>72642709
>>72642767
Also Glen Cook just wrote a new Black Company book and it's good.

>> No.72642797

>>72642709
ah, I was wondering when the LitRPG/chinese cultivation fags would show up.

>> No.72642951
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72642951

>>72599611
The Killing Fields
The Damage Done
I found the description of the atmosphere of hopelessness and apathy in The Killing Fields particularly good. Both books are also good inspiration for extreme shit (literally in some cases) that real people do to each other, as well as the stuff they do to survive.

>> No.72643105
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72643105

I'm assuming you want books that can help make your games more interesting.
>Book of the New Sun
has lots of great material for (semi-)religious organizations and rites.
>The Complete Works of Flannery O'Conner
if you want the presence of a higher power to be felt and be active without literally have gods fly down from heaven to do shit, O'Conner has some ideas you can steal
>Blood Meridian
you use can some of the descriptions from this book to make any mundane setting seem like an alien hell. "The floor of the playa lay smooth and unbroken by any track and the mountains in their blue islands stood footless in the void like floating temples."
>The Vorrh
cool, colonial african dark fantasy. magic is bizarre and morbid. for example, someone draws runes on a rifle and bathes the bullets in blood, infecting the weapon with a intelligence so hateful the weilder has to physically stop it from killing everyone around him. another guy turns his wife into a bow and arrows.

>> No.72643132

>>72642767
fuck off bakker, no one wants to read your shitty emo books

>> No.72643233

>>72643105
>for example, someone draws runes on a rifle and bathes the bullets in blood, infecting the weapon with a intelligence so hateful the weilder has to physically stop it from killing everyone around him. another guy turns his wife into a bow and arrows.
A new meaning to the word Raifu.

>> No.72643314

>>72642709
>>72642797

>Anything written after 2010 is too onion for him

lol, faggot, you won't be missed.

>He reads Chinese fantasy

Shit! Please don't go! We'll miss you!

>> No.72643318

>>72641199
The Fountainhead. I couldn't pierce the first chapter of Atlas Shrugged, but the Fountainhead actually has interesting things to say about the artist's responsibility to his art and shit.

>> No.72643339
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72643339

>>72643233
unsurprisingly, the guy who wrote it has a gun fetish (especially for obscure firearms) and probably would have been a /k/ommando if he weren't 60-something

>> No.72643341

>>72643132
I'd say that about Abercrombie too.

>> No.72643378

>>72643132
>>72643341
What's wrong with Bakker and Ambercrombie?

>> No.72643405

>>72643339
Sounds very based.

>> No.72643498

>>72643378
An undertone of everything being shitty.

>> No.72643553

>>72643498
Second Apocalypse is very pessimistic but that's part of the Old-Testement aesthetic I think he was going for.

I don't consider First Law to be too edgy, there's a decent amount of humor in the books.

>> No.72643701

>>72643553
But in the end the bankers win.
I really did hope for the wizards to get their comeuppance at some point, but I have only read the first three books.

>> No.72643764

>>72643701
The Wizards lose in book 4 and book 7 and will probably lose even more in 8 and 9. Fuck the Wizards, Monza is best girl.

>> No.72643862

>>72643764
I'll read it then.

>> No.72643914

>>72643862
I definitely think they're fun. Book 5 is particularly interesting because two of the protagonists were irredeemable villains from the first trilogy but they're sympathetic characters here.

>> No.72644277

>>72599611
Retribution Falls by Chris Wooding. Nothing groundbreaking, but a fun ensemble air pirates story, kind of reminiscent of Firefly

The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien. Been on my mind since discussion of 1917 as a great /tg/ movie. Reading this helped me feel what it was like to be a grunt in a close knit platoon

>> No.72644809

>>72641037
That one's good but doesn't have everything, it's a 'best of'. Eldritch Tales, a second large black volume like that, along with Necronomicon, gives you everything, or just about everything, along with some poetry and Supernatural Horror in Literature. There was a Wordsworth collection called The Loved Dead that had a ton of his collaborations was taken off the market because the C.M. Eddy estate, the guy who co-authored the stories, claimed ownership. I don't think it's an easy story to find, along with Ashes and Deaf, Dumb and Blind.

>> No.72644890

Explain LitRPGs to me. They seem like a meme.

>> No.72645137

>>72644890
>boring white guy™ and his harem of 15 catgirls save the world/mmorpg game world with the power of muh dick

>> No.72645329

>>72645137
Does he have a special ability that everyone thinks is useless, but in reality is powerful?

>> No.72645434

>>72645137
>boring white guy™
Aren't they Japanese, or is there a new trend separate from isekai (which lets face it, is almost synonymous with the gamification of fantasy) that's dominating Japanese fantasy now?

>> No.72645502

>>72640918
Measuring some twelve hundred pages in paperback, I think James Clavell's Shogun probably has the highest page count of any single novel I've read. I don't think it's quite bible length (and doesn't have those weird, super thing pages), but it's seriously thick.

>> No.72645542

>>72599611
anything by Josh Reynolds

>> No.72645661

>>72645502
>super thing pages
*super thin

>> No.72646243

>>72645137
>>72645434
So they're western visual novels?

>> No.72646650

Holy shit lmao I'm reading up about LitRPGs snd they sound like the biggest pile of wank imaginable. One site describes it like this:
>A defining characteristic of LitRPG is that you are reading about a character who is progressing in an online game or game-like world. And in that read, you can experience an RPG in a fashion that actual play thwarts: you can vicariously enjoy levelling up fast and engaging with the best high-end encounters that the game has to offer.

So, remove the interactivity of a fucking game and just read a fucking transcript of someone's day playing an MMO. What a fucking joke. I hope this meme dies fast.

>> No.72646734

>>72642797
>>72643314
t. Fags who don't enjoy reading fantasy at all and just want to publish YA trash under a new label.

>> No.72646811

>>72639198
Extremely padded and mediocre.
It's a three book story spread out over eleven books and all the interesting parts that actually go somewhere instead of being dropped or solved in a retarded and rushed (yes if you can believe it) way could fit a small pamphlet.

>> No.72646815

>>72646650
Are they published by Sony?

>> No.72646882

>>72642737
Have you tried reading anything by her made after that?
Most of it's shit. Some of it even ultra-shit.

>> No.72646958

>>72646243
It's mostly just a /lit/ slur to discredit nip & chinese webnovels pointing to a shortlived fad even though the number of works like that can be counted on one hand out of thousands.

>> No.72647029

>>72646650
Litrpg just means they have some shitty game-like system in-setting that gives paid-by-the-word authors an excuse to drop a status screen every few chapters.

>> No.72647978

>>72646958
Somebody wrote a Wikipedia article for it and gave it a bunch of references to different internet articles. Someone was pushing this nonsense hard lmao.

>> No.72648683

>>72640918
Well, it's not David Copperfield, but it's still pretty bricklike. Especially since my copy is the old one which is printed on "pocketbook" size paper, never mind the inherent irony.

>> No.72649325

>>72643314
No, he's quite correct. Unless you are an established author, or you are a woman, preferably an ethnic minority and writing YA fantasy aimed at teenaged women with a centre-left sensitivity, you should abandon any hopes of being published by basically any mainstream publisher in the English speaking world. This isn't being political, this is just telling you the current state of play in the publishing industry. It's far better to look into smaller publishers or do it yourself.

>> No.72649982

>>72649325
Anon's right

>2016
2 white men, 3 women

>2017
3 asian men, 4 women

>2018
2 white men, 1 korean man, 3 women

>2019 Hugos
5 women, 1 korean man

>2020 Hugos
6 women

>> No.72650118

>>72649325
More or less. Western publishers have really deteroriated to the point that they will only publish trash that's made by a checkmark or fullfills a ton of them.
Sanderson, hack extraordinaire, basically admitted it while defending publishers in his lectures that a story without token heroines, homos and minorities aren't going to appeal to the average publishing agent who is a middle-aged woman or ethnic minority and homosexual. (he characterizes this as good however as a story without them clearly isn't any good and shouldn't be published)
And that's him, an extremely well-selling fantasy hack who shits out money at a rate way higher than the average fantasy writer and he still has to shove all that shit in there to stay on their good side in the current climate. (predictably he downplays Baen, the one SF publisher that has no interest in that)
He also more or less admits they can't do shit for you anymore beyond some regional PR and payment upfront when contrasted with self-publishing nowadays.
>>72649982
The Hugos are it's own thing and has it's TRUFANS faggotry to go with it, it's separate even if many publishers like the TOR people are deep in that ridiculous nonsense.

>> No.72650306

>>72650118
>basically admitted it while defending publishers in his lectures that a story without token heroines, homos and minorities aren't going to appeal to the average publishing agent

Not just him. Basically everyone admits as much, in books as well as movies. It's just that they cite it as being a hallmark of "good" writing.

>they can't do shit for you anymore beyond some regional PR and payment upfront when contrasted with self-publishing nowadays

I predict that this is what will make self-publishing really kick off. Just like voting Trump POTUS, people will eventually have a violent reaction to being told what to think, and enact "get woke go broke". Heck we're already seeing the first signs in Hollywood.

>it's separate

Perhaps. It's a quick barometer we have for the overall industry though, such as it is. Other than NYT perhaps.

>> No.72650525

>>72640175
>Le Guin
based

>> No.72650591

>>72649982
>1 korean man
>Lee is a trans man and describes himself as queer.

>> No.72650626

>>72649325
grim viewing.
https://www.goodreads.com/genres/most_read/fantasy

>> No.72650633

>>72650306
>>72650591
You can't even honestly trust them with translations. TOR censored the Three Body Problem because the chinese author describe the MC's love interest using terms like "angelic" as a positive.

>> No.72650872
File: 349 KB, 900x1421, 1632_-_Eric_Flint.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72650872

I have been loving the shit out of the Ring of Fire series, which 1632 is the first book in.

It's about this town in West Virginia that got physically sent to through time and space to the middle of Germany in the year 1632, and they gotta survive.

I personally enjoy it, but there's no accounting for taste and I've been told I have shit taste

>> No.72650936

>>72643105
>Flannery O'Conner
Just looked her up, I'm normally a genre fan but wikipedia made her stories seem interesting, recommend me a short story or two to try.

>> No.72650975

>>72650872
Flint's done that a couple of times. Mother of Demons is about a bunch of human survivors on an alien world trying to survive.
It's fun but definitely something of a guilty pleasure at points.

>> No.72651159

>>72650626
Goodreads is a joke.

>> No.72651169
File: 338 KB, 1920x1600, 1419577050.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72651169

Can I sang any recommendations for books and stories featuring gryphons in major/protagonist roles?

>> No.72651729

>>72646882
The Lathe of Heaven and the Dispossessed came after that, so that seems like a stretch.

I have a hard time believing anything Le Guin published was ultra-shit, even if I found The Telling kind of dull.

>> No.72652202

>>72651729
You don't even have to go looking for her shit feminist screeds like Birthdays of the World.
Just read Tehanu after Earthsea.
Terrible author praised mainly because of her early prose.

>> No.72652255
File: 513 KB, 695x391, the-last-guardian-listing-thumb-01-ps4-us-13jun161.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72652255

>>72651169
Only thing that comes to mind is Last Guardian.

>> No.72652344

>>72652202
I did. I liked Tehanu well enough, but Tombs of Atuan was the highlight of Earthsea.

>> No.72652380

>>72599611
Thieves' World, bunch of short stories written by several authors

Strugatski brothers also have big cycle called World of noon, but I'm not sure if it was ever translated.

>> No.72652774

>>72652344
>I liked Tehanu well enough
Must be sad being born with shit for taste.

>> No.72652998

>>72650936
My favorite is "The life you save may be your own" and her most popular is "a good man is hard to find". Read those, and the rest of her stories if you like them. "Circle of fire" and "the displaced person" are other favs of mine.

>> No.72654782
File: 42 KB, 331x500, 51O95TZh+uL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72654782

Post some good Sword and Sorcery please. I've read all the classics like Howard, Vance, Wagner and Leiber.

>> No.72654871

>>72607836
C.L. Moore, Ursula K. LeGuin, Anne McCaffrey, Poppy Z. Brite, Mary Shelley.

But, obviously, you wouldn't know your ass from your elbow, so you wouldn't know actual good writing if it chained you up in its basement and fucked you in the ass with a cheese grater.

>> No.72654961

>>72654871
Not op but C.L. Moore is great, Ursula K. LeGuin used to be good but I don't like her newer stuff.

>> No.72655125

>>72654782
The Lords of Dûs, by Lawrence Watt-Evans
The Chronicles of Amber, by Roger Zelazny
Thraxas, by Martin Millar, writing as Martin Scott
Jirel of Joiry, by C. L. Moore
The War of Powers, by Robert E. Vardeman
The Eye of Argon, by Jim Theis I HAVE INCLUDED THIS AS A SORBET, TO CLEAR THE PALATE
Elric of Melniboné, by Michael Moorcock
The Gondwane Epic, by Lin Carter

>> No.72655378

>>72655125
I was looking for the title of another Barsoom-alike, that I really enjoyed. It was
The Steel of Raithskar, by Randall Garrett and Vicki Ann Heydron, first in the Gandalara Cycle.

I also really liked Transmission Error, by Michael Kurland, but that's more of a Swords and Planets/Isekai type thing, about criminals lost in a teleport accident ending up in a medieval world.

>> No.72655449

>>72655125
>>72655378
Thanks, I'll check them out.

>> No.72656812

>>72654782
I haven't read Fafhrd and Gray Mouser yet, but I've dipped my toes into quite a few other stories and I've yet to see someone come close to what REH did with Conan.

Moorcock has some neat ideas, but his prose is awful. Karl Edward Wagner was hyped up to be a world-beater but I read Kane and found that the writing was pretty weak in most places.

There's been others, but I'm starting to have my doubts that anyone has matched REH's formula.

>> No.72656876

>>72656812
>I read Kane and found that the writing was pretty weak in most places.
I loved Kane. What did you dislike about it?

>> No.72657096

>>72632420
I managed to drag myself through the entirety of Way of Kings and didn't enjoy it. The parallel flashback narrative was misguided and undermined Kaladin's characterization. Shallan and Jasnah were insufferable. Szeth was a misplaced edgy anime character. Dalinar was okay.

>> No.72657350

>>72656812
>what REH did with Conan
Have you read his Bran Mak Morn stories? I honestly think I like them more than Conan, although stuff like Tower of the Elephant and Scarlet Citadel are bona fide classics. There's an atmosphere of bitter melancholy to the Pict stories I haven't found in other Howard works, this primal race drive to the edge before the might of metallurgy, and how they sort of permeate so many of his works. They really stretch throughout his entire chronology, from Kull's close Pictish ally, to the Native American-esque Picts in Conan, there's even Picts in his 11th century Turlogh O'Brien story 'The Dark Man' when Bran has become a Pictish god.

>> No.72659974

>>72654871
>C.L. Moore, Anne McCaffrey
Worth reading.
>Ursula K. LeGuin, Mary Shelley.
Extremely overhyped by pop-cultural takes from people who never read them.
>Poppy Z. Brite
Bait.

>> No.72660854
File: 22 KB, 263x400, 1573209542816.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72660854

I've yet to read a series that does time travel better.

>> No.72664473

>no Lord of Light
>no Fire Upon the Deep/Deepness in the Sky
>no Culture
>Sanderhack, Abercrombie and Bakker
/tg/, I am disappoint

>> No.72664575

>>72659974
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is an absolute classic for a reason, you contrarian cocksucker.

>> No.72664656

>>72664575
t. non-reader.

>> No.72664669
File: 69 KB, 693x1080, images.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72664669

>>72599611
Reading some Peter Feheravi. pretty great by Black Library standards. Most of his stuff is basically open access. He's done a bunch of stories focusing on the T'au, which is a rarity. I'd recommend Fire Caste

>> No.72664670

>>72632420
>>72657096
I used to be into Sanderson for a while, but completely lost interest in the series and everything else he does about midway through Oathbringer. The thing is, he just isn't very smart or educated, which makes his "elaborate magic systems" laughable to anyone with a basic understanding of science. He also isn't very clever or witty, so his attempts to write clever or witty characters are painful to read. He does not get subtlety at all. His worldbuilding is pretty good, but on its own it's not enough.

If you want popcorn literature, Dresden Files is way more entertaining. Hope Peace Talks will be fun. Or Codex Alera, by the same author.

>> No.72664675

>>72664473
Lord of Light is based.
Culture is shit and barely readable outside of the second book.

>> No.72664683
File: 1.53 MB, 1920x1080, 4chan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72664683

>>72599611
If you want /tg/ inspiration, literally just read the classics.

>> No.72664705

>>72638867
>>72640272
Only the first one is good. Each sequel gets progresively worse.

>> No.72664725

>>72659974
It's telling that you put a hack like McCaffrey over 2 actual writers.

>> No.72664761

>>72639683
Abercrombie gets too distracted by trying to subvert every trope in the book and forgets that he should also be writing an interesting story. It's fun at first, but very quickly gets stale and unsatisfying.

>> No.72664824

>>72660854
Does it ever get any better? Forced myself through the first two and found them to be nothing more than vehicles for "I read a popsci book - look at what cool ideas I had", there wasn't an actual story worth reading in there.

>> No.72664841
File: 93 KB, 190x365, 1587483780894.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72664841

>>72624276
>1d4chan is dead
What will happen to ribbon and cestree?

>> No.72664858

>>72664675
t. smoothbrain
Any single Culture book has better writing than most things mentioned in this thread so far.

>> No.72664877
File: 985 KB, 500x475, Aurora.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72664877

>>72664683
Expanding on this, I never actually see anyone recommend classical literature on this site when the classics are what inspired all of the fantasy genre in the first place.
You want good stuff, read anything by the Greek or Roman epic poets, anything in the canon of Arthurian legend, The Epic of Gilgamesh, Beowulf, the Icelandic Eddas, the Travels of Sir John Mandeville, the Song of Roland, the Middle English Breton Lays.
There's really too many to list, but those are good places to start.

>> No.72664878

>>72664725
>actual writers
Le Guin is a hack who relied on her prose for critical praise while writing generic mediocre shit and political spiels.
Shelley is more praised for her ideas than the actual novel which is fairly stilted outside of Frankenstein's frenetic energy, I wouldn't expect the vast majority of people who praise it would do so if it weren't for the movie and TV adaptations.
Regardless the Pern series is far better than anything Le Guin shat out.

>> No.72664982

>>72664858
Culture is just wink wink nudge shit for neolibs after Player of Games, complete with dumbass /lit/ schticks in Use of Weapons. (bruh I wrote a book but it wasn't any good so I put it out of order after the fact now it's genius!)
It even tries to go the full on criticism of the nihilist hack outlook while still indulging in it shit that so many hacks end up doing. Like Pratchett without the charm, wit or humanity.

>> No.72665051

>>72604973
head to amazon, do a search for 'harem'. Book covers will make it pretty obvious which ones are for the guys.
Another way you can try is look at thse books and use them as starting points - than look at related material
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36587311-tamer
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34469656-wild-wastes

there is a lot of new authors trying to reach out to guys who want to read sexy adventures.

>> No.72665103

>>72664982
>neolibs
You need to have usian politics surgically extracted from your mind.
Culture is about current politics shit to about the same extent LotR is.

>> No.72665122

>>72638483
I can't even remember what happened in Republic of Thieves except that nothing the main characters did actually furthered the plot or changed things. As far as I can remember, they just ran around flirting and pretending to do shit while events carried on regardless of them. Red Seas, on the other hand, I can still remember very clearly with all its different colourful characters and the different events that the MCs actually played a big part in.

>> No.72665224

>>72665103
Culture is about the neolib shit that passes for SocDem in the UK SocDems that's been around since the 60s. I can identify the type easily.

>> No.72665234

The Redwall books by Brian Jacques are pretty good. Some low fantasy adventure books for kids that aren't afraid to murder characters. Each one is self contained except for, I think, the first two.

>> No.72666187

>>72664670
>his "elaborate magic systems" laughable to anyone with a basic understanding of science
Does it actually matter if it's magic? Or does he try making magic work within a scientifically material structure? If so, that sounds horribly boring. Magic isn't science.

>> No.72666234

>>72664877
Going back to the roots might be the best idea simply because you won't be reading something others modified throughout the ages. Reading what inspired Tolkien, for example could be more worthwhile than simply copying LotR and changing things around.

>> No.72666301

The Face in the Frost by John Bellairs is fantastic. Semi-historical fantasy about two wizard friends investigating another wizard who's gotten hold of something dangerous. The magic is written effortlessly and never seems like it's out of bounds or overpowered. Many of the scenes are also genuinely creepy, owing to Bellairs being a fan of M.R. James.

>> No.72667162

>>72664877
Most of them are not entertaining though, so it becomes research rather than fun

>eg Arthurian
Sure I read Malory to know what's what, but I read White when I want to be entertained

In any case "classics" now probably means stuff like Penguins. In which case I can heartily recommend Kipling, and add HR Haggard, Mark Twain, maybe even Jules Verne.

>> No.72667373

>>72666187
He makes up comprehensive sets of rules that all magic strictly adheres to. A big part of the action is characters uncovering new rules or using them in inventive ways. The problem is that the system feels tacked onto standard physics in a very ad-hoc way that makes it painfully obvious that he is clueless about basic science concepts. Also, it tends to degenerate into boring pointless rules lawyerism.

>> No.72667416

>>72667162
I'd say it's debatable whether the classics are entertaining or not. Personally, Gilgamesh gives me chills every time I read it.
If you want something Arthurian that's sort of off the beaten path, I'd suggest 'The Marriage of Sir Gawain and Lady Ragnelle'.
Oh, but you absolutely have to read Jules Verne. 'Around the World in 80 days' and '20,000 Leagues Under the Sea' are must reads for someone wanting to see a world of emerging technology.

>> No.72668155

>>72664761
idk i didnt look for tropes so i enjoyed the book

>> No.72671347

>>72599611
Asimov.

Just all of it.

>> No.72671373

I've never seen M.R. James mentioned on /tg/, which is a shame though I suppose he's had little to no effect on gaming. One of the best ghost story writers in the English language, a real grasp on what makes something creepy. He wrote his stories to read to his friends at Christmas in Cambridge (where he became provost after many years of being a top notch medieval scholar). They often feature fusty scholars and academics, also clergymen, whose comfy, mundane lives are invaded by supernatural horrors, often after they disturb something they shouldn't. Brits and Irish people might know him from the BBC adaptations at Christmas from the 70s (and more recent 2005/6 and 2014/9 ones).

Good stories to try:
>Oh Whistle and I'll Come to You, My Lad
>Casting the Runes
>A Warning to the Curious
>Canon Alberic's Scrapbook

His formula for a good ghost story could translate fairly well into one shot games or very short campaigns as investigations of old ruins, returning books or artifacts to their resting places, trying to help a haunted/cursed individual, all the while hounded by all too visceral ghosts, elementals and even demons.

>> No.72671727
File: 252 KB, 1383x1781, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
72671727

>>72624276
>>72664841
We live now

>I'm still not sure exactly what went wrong with the previous setup, but I'm going to blame it on the server being a possibly haunted and precariously balanced house of cards full of ancient shit held together by prayer and inertia, which is what you get when you have no motivation to maintain your infrastructure for several years. However, I've taken advantage of the unintentional downtime to spin up a new host and migrate everything to that. Performance might be wobbly for a few days while I figure out optimisation/caching again, but things should be more maintainable going forward. I think everything should be fundamentally working now, but please notify me of anything that seems broken by my talk page or email.

>I've also surrendered to the march of progress and changed the default skin to the "Timeless" responsive design. I think it looks fine, but if your heart yearns for Vector (or Monobook!) again you can change the styling back in your user preferences. I'm hoping this means that Google will finally stop giving me shit in search results about my pages not being optimised for mobile.

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