/tg/ - Traditional Games

Question: Would you be interested if they made a Kill Team book for Horus Heresy?

>>72571648
No.

>>72571648
Nah, but I only started in 8e and know nothing about 30k anyways

>>72572573
Its 40k but visually cooler.

I ordered pic related recently, am a D&D player but looking to dip my toes in 40k a little. My friend is going for the grey knights KT.

Never painted before, should be fun. I like the Maynarkh and Mephrit color schemes.

I was torn between CSM (Word Bearers or Iron Wariors) and Necrons. Ultimately went with Necrons ofc, they're really cool and remind me of Terminator robo-skeletons. They are pretty boring to play in Dawn of War though, which is my only other experience with the 40k franchise.

>>72571216
>TQ: Do you have any homerules or anything to make narrative campaigns more fun/bring out "your dudes"?
We don't make additional levels cost points. Instead, we use a "warband rating" system like Mordheim and additional levels add to that. We're still toying with the rules, but currently we're basically doing it as: Team rating = number of fighters x5 at a base, with additional levels adding 4 rating per level beyond level 1 for specialists. Fireteam level-ups are handled similarly, but are +2 team rating per model per additional level. How this affects gameplay is that the team with the lower rating gets +2 to the initiative roll in the first round, and ties automatically go to them.

>>72572717
Well it's kinda a bad buy tbqh, but it should be enough for you to get a grasp of the game.

Maybe we should make these threads into/40ksgg/ 40k Skirmish Game Gemeral and invite Necromunda and Shadow War along, or would it bring to much sectarian shitposting along with it?

It just seem like these threads keep getting slower and slower.

>>72573329
We cant play it and there haven't been new additions in a while.

I just think generals are fucking useless unless you shitpost and argue over dumb things like /40kg/ does all the time

>>72571648
no, and it would be awful for the game because it will split an already small playerbase to a dieing game

By buying two SOS boxes, what mission points level would I top out at before I had to buy another box? 125 points?

>>72573367
What makes you think generals are bad? They seem to be the only quality content on here. Most non-general threads are just the same flavour-of-the-month shitposts ad infinitum.

>>72572717
That’s funny, I play Word Bearers because of Dark Crusade.
Pick up some Warriors/Flayed Ones, they are great. The snipers seem like ass. Lychguard are super killy with scythes, I think the sword n’ board setup is too expensive. I think you guys should get wraiths.
I proxy the skeletons from Underworlds as necrons sometimes, and the Sigmarines make a good Custard proxy team. Get some more terrain or make some. Soda can oil tanks are easy, hedgehogs out of sprue, that kind of thing. My LGS sells mega cheap cardboard deck boxes for MTG that can be repurposed as shipping containers. Hunt down shitty vehicles that are too far gone, those make good terrain as well. Zip tie some receipt rolls together for piping or something, terrain makes it breaks this game.
>>72571216
>TQ
Steal from Shadow War of course. Big local debate at the moment about generating resources during a campaign to fix the “passive victor” issue. I had the idea that a player can generate a resource of his choice per campaign round, and past a certain threshold you get bonuses. Like, +1 blanket leadership if your morale is above ten, choose adjacent missions if your intelligence is 10+, Sac a material to ignore a gets hot! (spare weaponry), that kind of thing. Make them do something besides go to zero.

>>72573367
perma generals are dumb since they tend to be propelled along by sheer autism and shitposting, look at 40kg
no news or playing means nothing to talk about, only shitpost

I'm painting my Necromunda Goliaths as black guys. I'm going to fucking do it.

>>72572717
Nice get. I would build them all Immortals (Deathmarks look cool, but suck). Give one of them a Tesla Carbine (make that your Leader), and give the rest Gauss. If you have fun with it, I would then grab a box of Warriors and turn most of them into Flayed Ones (it's not that hard).

>>72573630
I have no shit seen a guy paint Catachans as the blackest ooga booga stereotypes, basketballs and watermelons and boom boxes and everything. His company commander was a Col. Sanders lookin guy. Some retired fire chief guy I didn’t see again, apparently just played locals with it. Must have been 15 years ago.

>>72573558
>>72573788
Thanks for the tips, I appreciate it.

So it looks like the next book is "Kill Team: Killzones" i.e. this is to killzones what Annual was to White Dwarf articles.

I guess thats better than nothing.

>>72573427
1 bolter superior, 8 blades, and 1 blade superior is 9 models and 124pts.

>>72573558
Yeah I was thinking about what to do with the resource system currently in place, it does seem to reward the "play as little games as possible" playstyle. Question then becomes how do you generate resources without the campaign NEVER ending, or being unbalanced

>>72574803
So it’ll just collect all kill zone rules into one book?

>>72571216
I heavily advice Ork players who don't own them/play them to tryout Flash Gitz, they single handedly made Orkz good and playable in the open terrain maps with Freebooterz and they are among the shootiest, killiest things available right now, even if you don't run a dedicated Freebooter team a single flash git with gitfinda will make a difference and be a threat.

>>72572717
Good buy for the terrain+models discount deal, Immortals right now aren't the hottest shit for Necrons but they still make for a great starting base, get a warriors box and you got a pretty nice team going.

>>72575108
There's gotta be more than that, wouldn't that just amount to like 20 pages of content? IIRC most of the killzones had 1 page of unique rules, usually a D6 table for effects and maybe 1-2 tactics, and then like 2 unique missions.

Still looking at Grotesque conversion ideas. Does anybody know how tall a GSC Aberrant is? I know their bases are a bit smaller, but I'm wondering if I also have to stack some things up on the base to match the height as well.

Can regular guardsman benefit from the storm trooper doctrine or is that a scion-only doctrine?

>>72575259
What else do you run with yours? I’m working on painting up my orks at the moment

>>72574899
Wins deal more damage than can be healed, high intelligence would allow you to target the stat or something. Stat stacking would get you perks but your other stats would suffer so you’re more fragile, almost like some kind of strategic decision.

>>72575717
my take all comers generalist list is Freebooterz subfaction, and then:
x3 flash gitz (1 with gitfinda squig and heavy spec, other 2 are Demo and Comms)
x2 ammo runtz
x1 gretchin (if you go to tournaments make him your leader, if you are playing with friends or aren't a WAAFaggot like me just use your Kaptin as the leader like a man)
x6 ork boyz
x1 ork boy gunner with big shoota (make them 2 if you ditched the gretchin)
It's 12 bodies total, so not quite a horde but enough to not break after an unlucky round
It's exactly 125 points which is the format i regularly play, there's tons of variants of that are probably more reasonable like dropping a Git to get a loota spanner with kustom mega blasta (as comms specialist) and more boyz, or getting a Boyz boss nob with skorcha for deepstriking instead. Gameplay is actually rather simple, rush forward towards objectives with boyz, while flash gitz open fire and use dakka dakka dakka+ more ammo (heavy spec stratagem) to get a barrage of fire that boosts the precision of the others whenever you make kills with freebooterz. Fun and simple to pilot, and you actually get to kill people as Ork rather than trying to run at them and getting gunned down before you even make like it happens with melee based Ork teams in open boards

>>72571648
Yes, as long as it was totally compatible with the base game. Doesn't have to let Auxilla models in Guard teams or anything, but the new factions have to be balanced and rules compatible with the old. I don't give a shit if it doesn't make sense for Black Legion to be fighting Sons of Horus because otherwise >>72573420 would happen.

>>72575689
They can. Its just that scions can't benefit from anything else.

Do auto hit weapons, such as flamers, roll dice to hit? Or do you just skip that step?

>>72577741
Rules as written, yes. Though don't unless theres something that the hit roll matters for.
FWIW you explicitly don't in bighammer so it might not be intended, but we haven't had anything tell us explicitly not to in kill team.

>>72577871
Thanks anon. Planning my all scion fluff roster and was wondering if I could cheese the flamers to occasionally proc the storm trooper doctrine

>>72578170
Shit, I need to reread the rules on that. I never thought of that.

>>72571648
There's a homebrew for 30k in Kill Team that some anon was working on. I don't have the latest version, so I don't really want to post it. Maybe we should make a mega for homebrews? There's enough of them floating around at this point, and several of them are pretty high quality.

>>72579302
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350633-kill-team-age-of-darkness-version-03-updated/

The latest version is 0.3, final playtest is out in 3 weeks. It'll add in Skitarii titan guard, Militia/cults, and over 40 clarifications and edits.

Work on the 30K "Elites" book is about half done (pic related)

What's a good kill team I could run from this box?

Have we got a nice pdf of the SoS rules yet?

>>72579763
Something like this:

MODEL: Watch Sergeant
COST: 21
WARGEAR: Storm Shield, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Sword

MODEL: Black Shield
COST: 19
SPECIALISM: Combat
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Expert Fighter
WARGEAR: Storm Shield, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

MODEL: Deathwatch Veteran Gunner
COST: 21
WARGEAR: Deathwatch Frag Cannon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

MODEL: Deathwatch Veteran Gunner
COST: 18
SPECIALISM: Sniper
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Marksman
WARGEAR: Infernus Heavy Bolter, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

MODEL: Deathwatch Veteran
COST: 20
SPECIALISM: Comms
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Scanner
WARGEAR: Combi-plasma, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Power Sword


It works out to 99 pts, and gives you good shooting and very decent CQB. When you get more models you should probably build them, so you can take a purely CQB team or a purely shooty team.

DW works best when you specialize, but I've run the posted kill team, and it's done good work.

>>72581669
The power sword on the Comms guy is obviously meant for the Black Shield. Don't know why I fucked that up.

>>72581669
>>72581687
Also you can give the Watch Sarge a Xenophase Sword instead. It costs 3 points instead of two, so you end up on that nice 100 pts. It's also not bad if you ever come up against Nids, Deldar or Demons.

>>72578170
I mean, you're not gonna get any friends making that argument. I've never seen anyone role for auto-hit weapons.

>>72581901
Not him but theres also not a lot of autohitting weapons that have mechanics that trigger on a hit roll so there's also not a reason to bother.
Actually besides flamer scions I can't think of any combination of mechanics that has it. And scions aren't exactly the best doctrine anyway, they need the help.

>>72581669
Thanks friend, I'll probably post an update once I have them built. They're actually my first models ever.

>>72571648
There's already a pretty comprehensive fanmade one that's actually okay.

>>72573329
>Maybe we should make these threads into/40ksgg/ 40k Skirmish Game Gemeral and invite Necromunda and Shadow War
This thread is infested with people struggling with the most basic rukes concepts. Mixing three very different systems is going to confuse the shit out of people.

>>72575295
They had a lot more tactics than that. Right now there are 84 if you include the handful of new ones in the annual.

Some of these make the killzone what it is - there's a bunch of 0CP ones that actually make DW forest properly deathworldy.

>>72575295
There are 49 zone specific missions.

>>72575295
If it is nothing more than a collection of zone specific content we're still looking at potentially 70-odd pages.

>>72582353
>>72575295
>>72575108
I'm really hoping that its a narrative update with a decent campaign system. Elites had more than just Elite models, Annual did more than collate the year's content.

>>72583441
Now THAT would actually be something worthwhile. So it won't happen.

>>72578319
I've been scouring the rules and I don't see anything about this. It looks like the rules intend for you to roll to hit for auto-hit weapons, but everyone skips that step because why waste time rolling that.

Another rabbit hole is if you do roll dice for auto-hit weapons and roll a 1, what happens? The rules say rolling a 1 is an auto-miss...but auto-hit weapons are supposed to always hit. Which is it? If you decide to roll hit dice to try and cheese the hit roll, do you forfeit your auto-hit ability and miss on 1s?

>>72584340
Ikr. AFAICS the only the only automatic roll at all that mentions it at all is the Infiltrator's Marksman Bolt Carbine and its not even for hit rolls.
>Each unmodified hit roll of 6 made for this weapon’s attacks automatically results in a wound (do not make a wound roll for that attack).
Which is weird. Is it only in brackets because its only a reminder and they all do that? Is this the only one that explicitly states it because its the only one that does so? Who knows.

>>72584665
Not me. I emailed the Kill Team rules email about it, so I'll let you know when they get back to me in 17 years.

Why can't guard take shotguns and why can you not take veterans and why is this game so fucking shallow

>>72585259
I think it's a good thing veterans are not in the game as veteran gunners would just mean plasma spam would be even more stupid than it currently is desu

>>72585326
Just thought of an excellent rule that could help this game [limit: x]

There I fixed it

>>72585259
1) Because Vets aren't in, because shotguns are pretty terrible in KT and because don't add a lot gameplay wise.
2) Because they doesn't really add anything different with Guard and Scions in the game and the extra pages are better spent on things that provide interesting gameplay differences.
3) Its not. Try playing it with competent opponents.
>>72585326
It wouldn't change anything really.
1) Guard kill themselves too often with plasma spam already that its actually suboptimal despite the memeing,
2) they have options like vorne for filling the remaining points that are better choices.
>>72585354
That fixes nothing with his issue. Limits are per unit type. Veterans are like Scions with worse armor, so should be cheaper. Even at the same price as scions, you could get another plasma gun straight out the gate with the points left over from a plasma spam list. And if they are cheaper, you can still take 4 BS4+ plasmas and 4 BS3+ plasma but pay less for them by taking Veterans instead of Scions and maybe get 2 more plasma guns.

>>72585354
Because there aren't limits already? Thank you for that, I'm sure your mommy told thought your idea was very special.

Hey, I've not played KT in months and haven't really kept up with GW news. Did they change SoB rules since release or are they still sad and boring? I was thinking about ordering a box of basic Sisters, maybe one of Repentia.

>>72588921
No change

>>72589052
Damn.
Guess I'll wait a little more then.

>>72571648
>entire armies of same stats with minor differences fighting each other
yawn

>>72589292
How would you spice things up?

>>72572717
convert them to have straight chad legs instead of the virgin crouch. They will look so much better

>>72579763
Magnets, magnets, magnets. Don't be lazy. Honour the Deathwatch!

>>72591828
By holding a Horus Heresy book burning.

Newfag to 40K in general, don't own anything yet nor do I know any rules but the very basic (AKA half-watched a battle report while doing something else).
I want to make an IG killteam but I want to do it with DKoK models, I have 2 major questions but feel free to add other useful info, I'm thankful:

1) What's the most cost-effective way to get a "starter pack". Obviously I have no interest in buying the official IG killteam pack (if there's even one, not sure) since I won't use any of those models. Other than the rule book what should I buy to get the stuff I need? Having KT tokens would be nice too, is there a way to get them without being bundled with miniatures?

2) Which specific DKoK models are good proxis for IG? I'm sure I should avoid artillery, horsies, and vehicles, but I don't know what's a good ratio of, say, Infantry, Engineers, Commissars,etc. Stuff like "Command HQ Squad" or "Command Squad" seem like a good starting point but I have no clue. Furthermore "Grenadier Heavy Stubber and Meltagun" seem like a good option for those weapons, and "Engineers with Mole Launcher" look like a good enough proxy for those big Ogryn dudes. I'm aware there are no universal set teams, but anything for reference would help me.

>>72571216
>Trannies_of_Silence_art
Sad

>>72593703
>Other than the rule book what should I buy to get the stuff I need?
Don't buy the rulebook, you can download it for free in one of the megas in the OP. Other than that, you'll need (at minimum) dice, something to measure distance with, and tokens of some kind. I think that's it, but someone should check me

>Having KT tokens would be nice too, is there a way to get them without being bundled with miniatures?
If you don't want to make your own, you can buy some token dice off etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/681556890/5-murder-squad-order-dice-20?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=kill+team&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&bes=1&col=1

Or acylic tokens:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/640267187/kill-teamactiontokens-upgrade-set?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=kill+team&ref=sr_gallery-1-3&pro=1&col=1

Can't really help with question 2, sorry man

>>72593810
Thanks. Those look neat, but wouldn't shipping to EU cost a lot? Are there other alternatives you recommend?

>>72593703
Most cost effective way would be buying the core manual and the elites book. Or you could put the digital copies in the op on a device and just say you bought the digital editions when you play at a GW.

Please tell me your buying from recasters. Because otherwise it's going to be very expensive as you'll need lots of parts of kits.
You're going to need several copies of the weapon pack to get enough special weapons.
As for units, personally i actually think a Death Rider (horsey) would be a perfect Ogryn/bullgryn, because they have the same base size, with a lance they look like they should get a bonus when charging, and it doesn't make much sense for the mole launcher to be a melee weapon. You then want regular Dkok guys for your guardsmen equivalent, and engineers/grenadiers for the scions.
Like all proxies your weapons should be wysiwyg if they can be, and they can be for Dkok with the exception of the bullgryn.

>>72594438
Yeah I'm checking out recasters. I'll be playing with friends so it won't be a problem. I'll get the book(s) for ease of use though, I think the learning experience will be harder if we are constantly scrolling through rules on our phones. Is the Elites book essential though? I assume it's some kind of Xpac/addon, wouldn't it be better to stick to the core book for now then dive deeper later on?

Thanks for the horsie tip, they look fantastic so I'm glad they're a good proxy. How big is a IG team anyway? Most their units are bad/cheap so it's above 10 right? Would a good ratio be like 1 leader, 6 normal dudes and 3 specialists of some kind? (again I have no clue, just trying to not overshoot when buying)

>>72592558
lol yeah I wanted to do that but there the first models I've ever built. I'll probably do it on some others when i get them but I'm impatient.

>>72594960
It doesn't take more than a hobby drill, some superglue, and some magnets. Plenty of tutorials online, and if you don't do it now you'll really wish you had.

>>72594570
Elites is an update to the core rules; it is not a separate game mode. Before you ask any questions about the game, read through both of them first. It'll answer 99% of your questions, and then if you want help with roster building, come here. There's also an FAQ on the wiki.

How should points/missions be handled in a campaign? Choose randomly from all missions (core, elite, commander, arena)? At various point levels? Escalating points?

>>72571216
>SoS Released Edition
They haven't though? That issue doesn't release for a month.

>>72591920
Immortals don't have the power squat, their legs actually look good. hoping that whatever this necron reveal will be is gonna include warrior remodels to not be in the middle of leg day.

>>72594570
>Yeah I'm checking out recasters.
Good.
>Is the Elites book essential though? I assume it's some kind of Xpac/addon
It is and it isn't. Read
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Kill_Team(8E)_Guide_and_FAQ#Which_books_do_I_need.3F
There isnt really any reason to not use it unless money is an issue
>Thanks for the horsie tip, they look fantastic so I'm glad they're a good proxy.
No worries. Base size is one thing that people get persnickety about, so the more you can keep your proxies to the same size the better.
>How big is a IG team anyway?
Read
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Kill_Team(8E)_Guide_and_FAQ#What_the_fuck_is_a_roster.3F_Isn.27t_that_just_a_list.3F
A roster for any team is 20 models. If you want a take-all-comers list then yes its about 10 models, though you are at a disadvantage by going that way.
Also bullgryn are expensive so if you want him in your TAC list then you'll have fewer models.
>>72595443
People have already recieved their physical versions. The rules have already been posted

>>72595443
Stupid 4chan not supporting webp

>>72597959
>>72595443

>>72597983
>>72597959
So we'll probably see 8 bodies with a mix of greatswords and flamers

>>72597983

>>72598309

>>72598325
Last one.
>>72598065
Bolter leader i think, maybe a couple more in objective missions, but otherwise yeah.

Has anyone played with SoS yet? How are they?

>>72600060
The 1d4chan page says that you "want to stay away from swords that will happily bisect a Marine."
Can confirm. Lost 3 marines inc a relic blade to a zealot superior.

>>72574803
I really thought people would be more excited about confirmation of a new book. Even a lazy repackage means they haven't totally given up on the game.

>>72602198
I get the sense that there's more than just a perceived "content drought" to do with it. This is pure conjecture, but I feel like a few months after Elites dropped there was the beginning of a decline in the online KT community that really cemented itself with the largely lackluster Annual, and the games just sort of been festering in limbo since then. Anecdotally, the Kill Team community in my local scene followed that trend pretty closely; our number of games dropped off steadily post-Elites starting in about September, we barely played with the Annual content, and I personally haven't gotten a single match of KT in since December: It's not that I don't like the game or anything, I just feel kinda burnt out on the whole thing, y'know? I think it would take some major work to get the games spark back.

Friend gave me a box of immortals he didn't want. Is that enough for a kill team? I'd probably just have it as a casual team.

>>72603742
Not quite enough. 80 points for 5 immortals. You need 100 points. You'd probably wasn't a box of warriors to fill in the list.

>>72600060
I have a box of them I had built with swords because I liked them, I was thinking of buying another one maybe but no idea how to built them for kill team, pls help
t. tabletoplet

What do we think of the following as a generic Sisters of Silence list?
8 models, 100pts:
[11pts] Prosecutor Superior [Leader]: Boltgun, Psyk-out grenade.
[15pts] Vigilator Superior [None]: Executioner Greatblade, Psyk-out grenade.
[14pts] Vigilator [Combat]: Executioner Greatblade, Psyk-out grenade.
[14pts] Vigilator [Zealot]: Executioner Greatblade, Psyk-out grenade.
[13pts] Witchseeker [Demolitions]: Flamer, Psyk-out grenade.
[13pts] Witchseeker [None]: Flamer, Psyk-out grenade.
[10pts] Prosecutor [None]: Boltgun, Psyk-out grenade.
[10pts] Prosecutor [None]: Boltgun, Psyk-out grenade.
Gives 3 bodies for objectives and decent number of bodies overall, keeps the leader away from combat, still a very solid melee core and a couple of flamers for mobile shooting.
Ideally want to take fewer bolters, but also don't really want to upgrade the Leader nor have a bunch of points left over. Couldn't find a way to do all 3.
>inb4 roster
Yes, I know. But its meant to be a basic intro list to use as an example.
>>72604802
Thoughts on the above?

>>72604959
Looks good I guess but like I said I dont know much about KT yet. How will a SoS team stand up in general, high/mid/low tier like? Im not a WAACfag, just curious

>>72605330
Im gonna assume theyll'be middle tier, better than dumpster factions like Servants, Kroot and Genecult, but weaker than top dogs like eldar and imperial guard

>>72605421
Reading the 1d4chan tactics page it makes them sound kinda shit when you are playing them, especially vs non psykers yet rather tough when playing against them, especially if they have swords and flamers. They sound dangerous in melee especially. Still though, the coolness of the models alone kinda makes it worth it

>>72606323
Its closer to a type of selection bias than actual commentary. The tactics page is naturally going to focus on the the hard parts because that's what players need to know about.
For example, if you're playing against them, your factions strengths are going to be the same as they normally are, but you need to know where they're strong and what they can do. Weaknesses in KT are often more about avoiding strengths and there are often several ways to do that depending on your faction.

>>72600897
To the same superior?

>>72605421
>>72605330
Yeah, their swords are insane, but the downside is they have literally no ranged option against anything like a MEQ at all. If you can keep them away, you win easy, if they get into conbat, then good luck

>>72575259
It's a lot of points to invest in a unit when they could get downed by a lucky shot in the first round. But I can confirm they can go fucking bananas when you use the heavy tactic to get an extra shot, dakka dakka, and roll a lucky six on gun crazy show offs

With a tactic like Cloud of Flies or a Flash Gitz Gun Crazy Show Off ability that forces you to shoot the closest unit, what happens if the closest unit is in melee with your other dudes? For the flash git, what if you don't have line of sight?
Are you just not allowed to shoot?

>>72613204
Idk the gun crazy one, but that's not how cloud of flies works. Cloud of flies affects a unit, and that unit can only be shot at if it's the closest, doesn't force you to shoot at it at all.

>>72613746
I put them together because the answer to one would effect the other. For instance if I only had two units on the board, used cloud of flies on one, and the other was in combat and closer to all of your other units, does that mean you can't shoot with any of your units?
Gun crazy show off let's a flash git shoot again, but the only thing they can target is the nearest unit.

New killteam box when?

>>72613968
Ah, that is correct. If you have your leader in the back with a combi-plasma, and the rest of your team is engaged in combat in front of him, and cast Cloud of Flies on the leader, he can't be shot at at all

How to beat nids as orks? Feels like taking out their synapse dudes isn't as worthwhile for me because instinctive behaviour doesn't really affect their melee. Their 3-4 wound models just refuse to die despite their shitting saves too

Maybe a nice alt to kill team sized games?

>>72613981
Are you taking about starter box, team box or zone box?

>>72609597
Yup. And in the same game. They did use decisive move twice for that though.

>>72571648
nah, just give me volkite as an equipment option

>>72619740
What are the stats?

>>72593703
You can download the rule book pdf and tokens/strategems to print out in the OP link.
Grenadiers can be good proxies for Scions with their hot-shot lasguns, although it's not an optimal weapon. Plasma guns are currently the best
Regular Krieg infantry work fine for proxy lasgun chaff. Pick the Valhallan regiment trait for a leadership boost.

>>72621709
I like that gold on the central guy. Those your models?

>>72616110
As with everyhing, multidamage is the answer, if you are a melee guy use big coppa nobz and smash them, if you are a shooty guy use a couple of flash gitz. Skorchas are also always good. Tyranids have good hp and synapse but they lack in armor save and aim, so capitalize on that

>>72572573
It’s 40k but with all of the interesting factions removed.

>>72622739
Nah, the pic's from forgeworld: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-SE/Death-Korps-of-Krieg-Command-HQ-Squad?_requestid=2155867

>>72592955
>underrated post

Looking into making terrain, but a lot of it seems tedious. What places sell cheap terrain that would be good for kill team?

>>72629001
The most tedious thing about terrain is painting it, which you won't be able to get past.

>>72629001
Cardboard and assorted trash and some hot glue, fella. I’ve got semi-tractor oil filters I’ve cut the bottoms off and cleaned out that I intend to turn into silos for promethium and such.

I'm going through the rule book with errata but I don't get how it works. Stuff crossed in red was removed (I assume) but there are also blue lines and triangles, what do those mean? That something changed? But where do I see those changes?

>>72629302
Thing is I enjoy the painting part of this hobby. It's most assembly and sculpting that I find is a total chore. If possible I would like to bypass the part of the hobby I don't like.

>>72629732
Don't even trust it. This games core book has been errata'd more than once, and that one isn't current. Just read the normal core book and read the errata document on GWs website.

I wanna make a World Eaters KT. Where should I start?

>>72629799
At the beginning. Consume

>>72629799
Box of CSM, some helmets and chainaxes for converting some into Berzerkers, and some cultists.

>>72629892
cool got that done lol

>>72629732
Just get the errata sheet from the warhammer community page.

>>72617737
yes

>>72604959
I don't think you can do all three without sacrificing the flamer/sword balance.

>>72629001
>>72629747
Maybe try these videos? He normally makes d&d things, but he usually uses trash/random things to get the job done

>>72629001
>>72629747
>>72635430
Forgot link like a moron
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC2Rlv-ug-mtnXuMwlpcqFgg/videos

>>72635446
No anon, I do not want to make the terrain. I would much rather buy a premade shipping container or promethium tank or whatever out of plastic than make one myself out of cardboard and soda cans. I don't enjoy that part of the hobby (and I also dislike how fragile the results are).
I just wanted to know if anybody had good links to cheap terrain that was of the appropriate scale. Like reaper has a shipping container mini for like 7 bucks on Amazon which is pretty reasonable (and is comparable in price to making some yourself when you factor in the cost of special materials like corrugated paper), but the dimensions aren't listed anywhere for this kind of terrain.

>>72582235
Link?

>>72604959
is that homebrew or do they have rules out now?

>>72637902
They have rules. They were even posted upthread.
>>72597959
>>72597983
>>72598309
>>72598325
>>72598371

>>72638430
I'm a retard, but thanks

Is this game good yet?

>>72638571
It peaked with the release of the Elites expansion which was generally well-received and went far in balancing out some of the weaker factions. Since then, things have slowly declined in the collective community consciousness as people pick the numerous flaws in the game apart out of sheer boredom due to a lack of substantial content drops, while slowly losing faith in GW's commitment to supporting the game for the same reason.

>>72572586
>>72624451
The duality of man.

>>72571216
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Kill_Team(8E)_Guide_and_FAQ
Uhhh so the wiki is down?

>>72638873
Probably either a cache failure or GW's lawyers.

>>72627553
This has a full archive.

>my two friends exclusively play thousand sons and grey knights in kill team despite having other armies
>They constantly shit on my kill teams
>Sisters have rules now
>What do u mean I can't psy bolt you

>>72604959
I basically ran the same list but used a scout instead of demo for the flamer
Being able to have a 9 inch move and reroll advance rolls helps get into flamer range

>>72639730
>grey knights
Literally just outnumber them, numbers matter more in KT than armour.

>>72635893
Gromlech have some good stuff IIRC.

>>72639528
>Complete dump with full images and metadata, as of 17th Feb.
Based archiveanon but also aww fuck. Hopefully the site operator has a more recent backup. A fair bit of of work was done on the kt pages since feb. We'll lose half the FAQ at least.

>>72575540
>Does anybody know how tall a GSC Aberrant is?

They're about the size of a Primaris Marine. A lot smaller than most people think.

>>72640541
If Root is smart he'd be backing up each month at least.

>>72640541
Well I've saved the cached versions of the pages. They're definitely not the latest, but they're pretty close.
Will only have to redo formatting and some minor additions if there is no back up.
>>72641100
Hopefully, then again the site is not exactly a money printer. Not a lot of incentive to not be lazy.

Is there a place that shows multiple Imperial Guard lists (if they each have a summary even better) so that I can have a place to start or reference?
I've read the rules but everything is still very abstract, especially with all the choices I can do with each and every unit, and watching battle reports only does so much as they blast through their choices to get into the game fast.

Complete newfag by the by.

>>72644167
For Guard, start getting as many plasma dudes as you can for a 100 pts. Max out on your regular Guardsmen/Spec-ops Guardsmen and get as many as possible on your Scions.

After having run plasma spam for a bit, you'll probably be able to get into other type of lists.

The typical “competitive” guard list just spams special weapons, taking the max amount of SWS and scion gunners with a sergeant and one or two vox. You can add or remove specials as you wish in order to make the list stronger or weaker for your local meta.

>>72644260
I'm going to be playing against a friend who's getting warhammer conquest, the poor guy will have repeated pre-made fitted models that probably result in very subpar teams and I will blast him with my custom DKoK plasma spam?

I think it's better if I go with "other type of lists" first. Should've said this sooner, but it's best not to go full META from the getgo. I also want to use a horsie as an Ogryn proxy as someone has mentioned above.

>>72644297
Are flamers and grenade launchers fun to play with/against?

>>72644498
So what exactly do you want then?

If you want something else, you can try and make a Catachan melee guard, if you're using the sub-faction rules from Elites.

>>72644498
Flamers are the second best spec weapon in the guard codex. A demo specialist with a flamer and the "bring it down" order can cook almost anything.

>>72644555
>So what exactly do you want then?
Not sure at all, which is why I asked if there's a place that gathers various teams where I can pick one as a starting point, or compare them to one another - avoiding the X/plasma spam lists (for now).

I'll definitelly get a flamer just for the visual.
Also can this model (pic related) or any variation of it be used in Kill Team or is the large base size asking for too much? I haven't taken a look at Tau rules but I've seen their battlesuits in Kill team so it made me wonder....

>>72644808
The way the Guard work in KT means you'll have to spam special weapons of one sort or another. But taking an Ogryn/Bullgryn would probably go a long way to reduce the spam, by being so expensive in points. Unless you're dead-set on buying DKoK models, Catachan seems to be something you could look into. Melee focused, fluff-wise very found of flamers etc.
Also, sadly, you can't take heavy weapons like your pic.

>>72644887
But if I say "This is just my sniper" and give a handjob on the side, it'll be allowed right?

>>72644940
Sure, you're disadvantaging yourself by taking such a big base

I can give you my list if ya want to?

>>72644887
Could you imagine a heavy flamer or two mucking about though?

>>72644962
sure, anything helps

>>72644999
Again, sadly can't take them. I do fairly often bring a model with one, so it's easy to see he is the Demo specialist.

>>72645018
Oh I’m not him. I’m just musing at how silly that shit would be.

>>72645015
Probably a bit spamy for you, but I didn't min-max everything I could. There's also a fair deal of plasma here, but you could easily change that to whatever special weapon you want like flamers, snipers etc.
MODEL: Sergeant
COST: 6
SPECIALISM: Leader
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Resourceful
WARGEAR: Plasma Pistol, Chainsword, Frag Grenades

MODEL: Guardsman Gunner
COST: 8
WARGEAR: Plasma Gun, Frag Grenades

MODEL: Special Weapons Gunner
COST: 8
WARGEAR: Plasma Gun, Frag Grenades

MODEL: Special Weapons Gunner
COST: 8
WARGEAR: Plasma Gun, Frag Grenades

MODEL: Special Weapons Gunner
COST: 8
WARGEAR: Plasma Gun, Frag Grenades

MODEL: Tempestor
COST: 13
WARGEAR: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

MODEL: Scion Gunner
COST: 13
SPECIALISM: Sniper
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Marksman
WARGEAR: Plasma Gun, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

MODEL: Scion Gunner
COST: 13
SPECIALISM: Heavy
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Relentless
WARGEAR: Hot-shot Volley Gun, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

MODEL: Scion
COST: 14
SPECIALISM: Comms
LEVEL: 1
ABILITIES: Scanner
WARGEAR: Hot-shot Lasgun, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Vox-caster

MODEL: Scion
COST: 9
WARGEAR: Hot-shot Lasgun, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Playing with commanders, should I go for Darkstrider or an ethereal? My list is quite basic, stealth suit fusion leader, two railfinders, recon drone and the rest is gun drones.

bump

>>72645101
Would this pass?

>>72648188
As far as tabletop? Yeah. As long as everybody has the gear you're saying they have, you shouldn't run into any problems. There's not a DKoK regimental doctrine in Kill Team, so you might raise a few eyebrows if you claim them as Catachans or something, but seeing as you're playing with friends it shouldn't be a problem.

>>72648188
I don’t know the DKoK models by sight, but you should use regular infantry for regular guardsmen, Grenadiers if you want to proxy Scions, and, if that model at the top isn’t the sergeant, it should be. Grab whatever Officer model Krieger use and use it as your company/platoon commander in Commanders games only.

Just a heads up: 1d4chan is up again and the Killteam pages are avaliable.

>>72648661
Tempestor proxy should also be the Grenadier Sergeant, I forgot to add.

This may seem strange, but is there any skirmish-type 40k game that restricts unit choice to troops, elites, and flyers? inb4 just play a 300pt 40k game

>>72579763
Not anon but I was thinking of kitbashing the DW Kill team weapons with Reiver phobos armor. That can totally works lore-wise, right? I just don't like my DW to look like manlets and I dislike the large boots on the intercessors... don't blam me.

>>72649729
totally work*

>>72649729
You and me, m8. GW better put out rules for Deathwatch Incursors, Infiltrators, and Eliminators at the very least. I’d buy a box of reivers, infiltrators/incursors, and eliminators immediately.

Has anybody have any tips for running Eliminators? I'm trying to keep my team as all-primaris since mixing with manlets looks out of place to me. Looking at their datasheet they seem to fix the issue of lacking multi-damage somewhat

>>72651774
H O T

>>72651813
The best advice I can give you about running eliminators is to not run them at all.

If you're deadset on an all-primaris team, then yes, they will be your only good source of ranged multi-damage. The instigator bolt carbine is at least free, and it being an assault weapon on a BS 3+ body is pretty good. Of course, you only get one. You could build a team of four eliminators, one as a sergeant with the carbine, give one a las-fusil, and take an intercessor gunner with the grenade launcher and auspex. That's only five bodies though, and outside of your las fusil, not particularly killy and not really tougher than manlets.

>>72644498
All flamers are fun, because you can run around like an idiot. This means you're everywhere but also your opponent only has to get 8" out to be out of range. Not optimal but fun.
The 4 Guardsman gunners are also an important part of real roster because of their use against GEQs and melee models.
Meltas with Tallarn player similarly but aren't useful on a real roster.
Grenade launchers are a little disheartening to play because they suck so much.
>>72644167
Guard are pretty simple. They have good models (gunners, guardsman vox, pf tempestor, vorne, gotfret, bullgryn [don't ever bother with Ogryn]) and chaff (guardsmen, sometimes a normal scion) and you balance those 2 types of model based on what objectives the mission has, while you pick which weapons/specific models you take based on your opponent.
You can go melee meme team with a PS sergeant, vorne and gotfret all benefiting from catachan, with a PF tempestor and bullgryn to keep the theme but its not that amazing.

>>72571648
I always thought it would be cool to run 30k minis as 40k kill teams.

Would give me a chance to play Night Lords

>>72575540
>>72641040
I've seen some people use Stormvermin from AoS/Fantasy to make Obliterators for Emperor's Children, so they might work here with some Greenstuff work

>>72652361
>The best advice I can give you about running eliminators is to not run them at all.
Not him but you don't think there's merit to running even a single las fusil on a mixed manlet-maris list?
>>72655132
What's stopping you from doing that now?

>>72649375
>40k game that restricts unit choice to troops, elites, and flyers?
Why would you allow flyers, some if which are pretty tough, and not other vehicles? You're going to find some of them pretty unkillable in a small game.

>>72649375
>inb4 just play a 300pt 40k game
>>72648188
That model at the top should be your company commander for commander games. Sarge should be a regular guy with a pistol.

Your guardsman gunners are engineers who are wearing carapace armour. Why aren't you using regular kreigers for regular guardsmen? It's not the end of the world as long as you paint the grenadiers to emphasise the skull mask.

Your tempestor isn't a grenadier sarge and doesn't have the skull mask. That's just confusing.

>>72644498
>Are flamers and grenade launchers fun to play with/against?
Grenade launchers are awful in every scenario.

Flamers definitely have their uses.

>>72637745
Look in this thread...

>>72656954
>Why would you allow flyers
idk, I wanted to experiment with dropforce-like missions with my scions and valkyrie. Making a custom game like this is probably not for a skirmish setting as you said.

>>72655776
Las-fusils aren't worth it for a competitive team. You'll rarely have the 36" sight line come into play if you're playing with the right amount of terrain, and space marines have access to cheaper bodies with more efficient weapons for their points. Primaris have a place on a roster- they're good at soaking up smites, and pre-Elites an intercessor with the aux grenade launcher was a common take because he could yeet krak grenades, but manlets are king in KT.

>>72658046
The benefit of a 36" range isn't shooting out to 36", it's avoiding the hit penalty between 12" and 18" where other standards like under plasma gun are massively nerfed.
With verticality in your terrain, and objectives theres definitely a place for them on the roster, though not on every team.
NAYRT btw.

>>72659026
Look at the standard bearer, he looks so dissapointed to be under the command of a primaris lieutenant.

>>72652361
Huh, why are eliminates not worth it? They seem pretty good for a surprisingly low cost.

A lot of new players are using the wiki pages to orient themselves.
I also see a lot of players think the models from Elites are otherwise restricted to specific missions.
Wiki format could be contributing to this Wiki has a section for "Elite Units" as a hold over from when Elites and Core were the 2 primary sources of models while "Commanders" is its own section because they are a different type of model.
Thinking might go "if Elites are distinct on the wiki like Commander are, maybe they're mechanically distinct too".

Is there any reason to keep the current format? The concept is outdated already with so many different sources that it doesn't actually provide any information and making a new section for each source is untenable. Might make for a dense "Units" section but its not much different to now anyway.

Playing with commanders, should I go for Darkstrider or an ethereal? My list is quite basic, stealth suit fusion leader, two railfinders, recon drone and the rest is gun drones.

>>72660733
RAW wise you can't use Darkstrider outside of open play because of that retarded errata as he's always level 2. Are you & your group ignoring that (hint: you should, its ridiculous)
Personally I'd go with the Ethereal anyway though unless you'll be playing a lot of missions with a lot of "Kill X with your commander" or "Kill the enemy commander" objectives.

>>72660727
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Kill_Team(8E)_Guide_and_FAQ#Which_missions_can_I_use_the_models.2Frules_from_Kill_Team:_Elites_in.3F
Added link related to the FAQ by nicking some answers someone (you?) put on the fb groups recently, just so you have a linkable to use. But I can see the merit in changing the format if you want to go ahead with that. There's not much standardization for the how the sections are used atm so transitioning to a tag system like the tactics might be best.

>>72648188
I would definitely play against it.

>>72659026
Although you do get +1 to hit in the 12" to 18" range over plasma, I'd still say it's worth it to bring plasma or ML. At anything less than 12", plasma is massively superior, and the ML scout does much the same task as the las-fusil for cheaper while also having a longer range. I wouldn't call the long range hit penalty a massive nerf either; most of the time, you're hitting on a 5 instead of a 4.

>>72659684
If you're going all primaris, they're worth it, but compare them to the other options space marines have. They're not a bad choice, they're just not the most competitive. The extra wound makes them cost more than then similarly lethal models without adding a significant amount of survivability.

>>72661416
Thanks.
FAQ will be handy but I think I'll still combine the sections depending on any feedback here.

>>72663666
>At anything less than 12", plasma is massively superior,
Eh? If you don't consider the long range hit penalty massive (though more on that below), then the plasma isn't massively superior to las-fusil - the difference is about the same (or worse if you assume theyre obscured). Meanwhile you don't have to spend CP and/or a specialism to stop a las-fusil from killing himself.
>and the ML scout does much the same task as the las-fusil for cheaper while also having a longer range.
6pts isn't nothing but it does cost you 1/4 of your kill chance, a 3+ sv, an attack, a wound and concealed position. Thats farily palatable at 125pts, though admittedly not so much at 100.
>I wouldn't call the long range hit penalty a massive nerf either; most of the time, you're hitting on a 5 instead of a 4.
A 33% reduction in successful attacks is not nothing, but more importantly going to long range loses rapid fire.

>>72660897
Does anyone actually abide by that particular bit of dev commentary though?

>>72664388
> then the plasma isn't massively superior to las-fusil - the difference is about the same

Plasma gets two shots at 12'' or less, and you have to devote a specialism to the las-fusil to let him stay mobile and still hit things.

>6pts isn't nothing but it does cost you 1/4 of your kill chance

A ML is more likely to kill things like MEQs than a las-fusil. The extra damage makes up for the lower AP.

>a 3+ sv
A scout has a 62.5% chance to eat it, while an eliminator has a 52% chance to eat it if hit with OC plasma. It's not nothing, but I don't think it's worth it in 100 point games.

>an attack, a wound
These don't really mean a whole lot. The extra attack shouldn't be coming into play, and the extra wound is meaningless in a competitive environment. You're paying for stuff you don't need, which is the classic problem with primaris.

>concealed position. Thats farily palatable at 125pts, though admittedly not so much at 100.

Concealed position is a pretty strong bonus and is why I'd say they're worth taking at a 125 point game. I don't think it's the best option, but it's good.

>A 33% reduction in successful attacks is not nothing, but more importantly going to long range loses rapid fire.
Fair enough on the 33%, but SM have access to weapons that outperform the LF at all ranges. The ML is an upgrade in most situations, and plasma dominates the short range game. My argument isn't that the LF is a bad weapon, it's just that SM have better options to take. It's a tier two weapon in the space marine arsenal- fine for most games, but not good enough in the more competitive environments.

>>72660897
>RAW wise you can't use Darkstrider outside of open play
The restriction is only for Matched Play, he can be used in Narrative Play too. I don't blame you for forgetting though, KT's campaign system is something I think everyone wishes they could forget.
>>72664423
Yes, but really only because we were already only running level 1 commanders except for one guy, who upon trying out his commander at level 1 for the first time realized pretty quickly it was just better; the extra marines he was squeezing in were way more impactful than the extra levels he was using previously.

Is a model with the FLY ability still subject to falling and falling damage?

>>72672496
Nope

>>72672647
Where are you finding that models are immune to it? It seems like the intuitive answer, but there is nothing mentioned about it under FLY in the movement section, and on page 43 where it discusses falling and falling damage, it does not say flying models can ignore these rules, even though in "Barriers, Gaps, and Leaping" it does mention what flying models can ignore.

Is it worth building a Flamer Scion so you won't get charged after Aerial Dropping?

>>72673359
I imagine it would be better to just take the killiest gun for the target. Can’t be charged if there’s nothing to charge you.

>>72648188
Should be, though it personally does weird me out that the heavily-armoured dudes count as Guardsmen while the lighter-looking dudes are Scions.

I was also gonna point out that Heavy doesn't help a Meltagun, but realised you could use the heavy 1 strat on it. That's kinda genius.

>>72657508
You could totally do a homebrew KT mission on an extra-sized board where a Valkyrie hovers around the edge of the battlefield blasting at stuff. It'd have to be very toned-down, maybe make the H. bolters BS5-6 and the rocket pods into random scatter barrages that hit the field at random, but you could do something with that. Maybe the non-scion defenders would have to capture one of three AA-missile launchers and hold it for a turn or two to win.

>>72673742
>I was also gonna point out that Heavy doesn't help a Meltagun
The passive ability absolutely does, it removes the penalty for advancing and firing an assault weapon, which the meltagun is.
>but realised you could use the heavy 1 strat on it.
You could not, the level 1 heavy tactic specifies that it cannot be used with single shot weapons, like a meltagun.

>>72667614
>A ML is more likely to kill things like MEQs than a las-fusil.
No its not. A ML has a 34% chance to kill a MEQ. A LF has 42%.
>The extra damage makes up for the lower AP.
You do know you can't just use the average damage to work out the kill chance right? A D-D3 weapon isn't the same as a D-2 weapon. You have to use the chance to pass the injury roll for each result divided by the number of results.
A D-D6 weapon has less of a chance to pass the injury roll than a D3 weapon.

Is anyone aware that Wahapedia now has a kill team section?

>>72676291
Neat, though as it is now it probably isn't that useful - as far as I can tell it's just core, no elites or commanders or BSF datasheets.

>>72668807
Narrative play teams don't really exist. The rules for narrative play teams are essentially "play either matched or open, but this time use our tables for fluff"
>>72676291
Nice and all but why would I use an incomplete version of the rules when all the rules are available in the OP?

>>72676756
>Narrative play teams don't really exist. The rules for narrative play teams are essentially "play either matched or open, but this time use our tables for fluff"
>"play either matched or open, but this time use our tables for fluff"
No? Have you actually looked at the Narrative Play rules? (If you haven't I don't blame you, the gamemode is kind of shit). Narrative play teams have to abide by the same rules for team composition as Matched play as laid out in the requirements for being battle-forged. The thing is, "battle-forgedness" doesn't care about levels; The only thing that cares about specific levels is the Matched play mode itself, which as implied by the Commander FAQ is that they must all be level 1. Narrative play is its own distinct game mode that shares battle-forged rules with Matched, but has its own vastly different ruleset for rosters and how they work, including how levels are handled - it is very much a distinct thing from Open or Matched.

>>72674581
I am aware that's not how it works, which is why I built a calculator to do it for me. Must not have checked the random damage flag, one of these I'll just make a damn table so I don't run into situations like this.

>>72648188

Need and ogryn pal

>>72677244
You're right that battle forged doesn't give a crap, but neither does Matched Play specifically.
The rule is that a specialist is added to your roster at level 1. Full stop, no matter what. The only exception is Open Play which allows you to pick and choose rules and thus ignore that rule, and by extention Narrative Play when you choose to build a team using the Open Play (per pic related) or you house rule it out (because they let you pick and choose rules like OP does).
But thats it, Narrative Play doesn't intrinsically allow it. You have to use one of those 2 options - the OP version of NP or a houserule, otherwise NP bans it just like MP does.

>>72648188
beware of size-difference-issue though.
before buying all the pieces I would check if they are size compatible or akward to look at.
DKoK are among the tiniest humans GW has created. Cadians and Scions are bulkier and squatter...

>>72679837
>but neither does Matched Play specifically.
It does though, that was the whole point of the Commander FAQ: Commanders had a blanket exemption to the "must be added to your roster at level 1" rule across all modes of play, but the answer to the FAQ implies that such an exemption does not apply in Matched Play specifically because MP now implicitly cares about all models being level 1, when it did not previously.
>The rule is that a specialist is added to your roster at level 1. Full stop, no matter what.
Commanders are given a special exemption to this, were you take them at the level you want when adding them to your roster: The exception to this rule is specifically only for Matched Play games.
>otherwise NP bans it just like MP does.
It's ADDING models above level 1 that's banned (except for the previously mentioned commander clause) but higher level models themselves aren't banned, they just have to be added at level 1 and leveled up as per NP's leveling system; before the FAQ, the only reason you couldn't have a leveled up specialist in MP was because there simply was no mechanism for adding levels available in MP, that was the realm of NP and OP. The FAQ fundamentally changed that with the implication that being level 1 is an inherent characteristic that MP specifically cares about - otherwise the example in the FAQ is just flat-out wrong and you could take higher level commanders in MP because the rules for adding them at levels above 1 are in place for MP. As I mentioned previously, the FAQ implies caring about everything being level 1 is something specifically characteristic of MP - that FAQ was a flat out change to what defines a MP roster.

>>72679366
woah! COOL! where is that from?

>>72680910
Except its only an FAQ, not Errata. There is no rule change, only them saying that this is how you should interpret the rules as already written.
Without a rule change, there can't be any special case given to MP because none exists in the RAW. The only way to interpret the current ruling is that both rules are still in effect and that there was never an exemption. Which is idiotic but its the only way that they don't break their own rules.
You can choose the level when adding a commander, but you must take a level 1 unless your playing in a game mode like Open Play and some-but-not-all-Narrative-Play where you can ignore the second requirement
And in this case, the dev commentary is still true. You ARE restricted to level 1 in matched play. You are also restricted to level 1 in some forms of narrative play but thats not what the question asked about.

This bullshit is why people are annoyed with it. It definitely was not interpreted like that when Commanders first came out, and they either
1) got their own rules wrong when writing the FAQ
2) fucked up errata'ing and can't even follow their own rules for doing that properly
3) worded the original not-actually-an-exception in the stupidest way possible.
Any way you take it, its a mess and it needs actual errata to fix - either to the book or to the errata itself.

Were there ever any SoS tactics revealed?

>>72673359
Generally you're dropping the scion to kill or threaten a specific model, rather than hold a point, so I prefer meltas.
You drop them out of Reserve at the end of the phase, so you always get at least 1 round of shooting anyway.

>>72680989

Mortian,the same that di the kickstarter for pseudo leman russ

How are thousand sons in KT? Getting a SC of them and thought it would be a good idea to also kit some of them out for KT

>>72684544
They are a middle of the road faction, not OP or weak.

>>72684802
perfect thanks

>>72678704

That is such a cool model.

I know BSF is coming to an end but I hope it sold well enough that there's more Warhammer 40K Quest stuff in the works. I'd be cool to have rival inquisitors investigating cults or Elfdar exploring a Crone World.

>>72686971

What percentage of Sisters players are Coomers?

>>72687026
More than you think

Post non-coomer kill teams

>>72687099

I was going to paint mine like these ones but just decided on Our Martyred Lady so I didn't have to paint white.

>>72687099
I'm not sure that's even 100pts

>>72684544
>>72684802
Not this guy but imo they're strong as shit. Psychic phase, strong MEQs and strong cheap melee chaff makes them top tier for sure.

>>72689758
LVO results say otherwise. They aren't bad by any means, for all the reasons you mentioned. But they have poor multidamage weapon options, poor ranged weapons, and while the psychic phase is strong, they have to spend ~60 points to use the only two psychic units you get, and if you don't blow 60 points doing that, then you actually didnt get a faction ability from elites.
They have some positives and some negatives, if you think they are OP you are probably just comparing them to really bad teams like SoB or something.

>>72690022
LVO is not how most play. In an LGS meta, TSons are a top tier team.

>>72690589
>LVO is not how most people play
>Most people play LGS meta, even though LGS are curbside pick up only in 40+ states right now
Wat?
Anon, even discounting LVO results, their weaknesses are still valid.

Dont worry guys, surely well get something this Saturday. Right?

>>72690941
Didn't you hear? We are getting a killzone book

>>72687099
Any team is a coomer team with the right fetishes.
>>72688271
Given one has a power fist, they'd have to be counted as Scions.
Which means its 12+13+(9*10)=115
Its a terrible list/roster though.
>>72690673
His point that Tournament metas are very different to everything else, including other tournaments, is valid though.
Custards are terrible and near-horde teams dominate. Except in Kill/Hold.
If you want to talk about relative power then you have to define the situation.
Also at LVO 2020, TS had the second highest win rate, only losing out to Asuryani.

>>72690673
And LVO is open for everyone?

Most shops aren't running the LVO tournament packet, even if they are running leagues. Yes, TSons have weaknesses, but so does every faction. It just so happens that in the regular missions, TSons' strengths outweighs their weaknesses.

>>72692095
>And LVO is open for everyone
The implication was that you wouldn't be playing by either meta. Right now I can only play with my wife and neighbors, and I wouldn't say my meta is LGS or LVO.

>>72692969
Nice Ventrillians! Are they yours?

>>72692969
Post more AM pics. Looking for inspiration

>>72693728
Nah, although I'm with anon here >>72696024
in collecting these IG pics for future reference. Red, black, and gold is such a snazzy mix.

>>72691992
>Any team is a coomer team with the right fetishes
Ok Slaanesh

>>72696024
Smooth black

>>72696024

>>72696024
Contributing
>>72697473
Is that GW plastic?

>>72696024
Also the official conversion guide

>>72574803

Was there also a manifest that showed them reprinting the earlier-produced killzones?

Man, they should have made SoS and Custodes the same faction. It would have made them both more interesting.

>>72697536
According to the poster on r****t, it's a model from The Makers Cult.

>>72696024
My Inquisitorial Lads, it's been a while so I should probably go back and clean up the paintjobs but they look alright on the tabletop.

Do SoS have any subfactions or Commanders yet?

>>72697609

>>72697797
Interesting

>>72696024
Clearly not much of a painter, but hey, they are my first models since I was a spergy preteen.

>>72699020
>first models since I was a spergy preteen.
Painting is pretty solid considering that then, Anon. Some problem spots but good over all. Kasrkin is especially clean.
What head is on the left most model though? Looks like a mask and a cap?

>>72699291
The cap/glasses head from the Command Squad sprue combined with the respirator from said sprue.

>>72699291
Also thanks.
Yeah I need to make my highlights less thicc, but I guess that'll come with practice.

>>72697740
hahahahahahahahahaha

>>72571648
> what is Victory is Vengeance?

>>72696497
Operators gonna operate. I love the old metal stormtroopers, shame hotshots are hot garbage in KT.

>>72700049
All standard weapons are basically worthless.

How are SoS? I’ve always liked the minis and want to jew my buddies who play TS and GK out of their mortal wounds

>>72700583
I haven’t played them, but by looking at their stuff, they’ll be chaff munchers that’ll struggle more against marines and up in toughness. Against TS and GK, they’ll cancel the Psychic phase, but they still have to do with busting their armor saves and the danger of flamers and strong ranged weapons.

>>72699453
God damn GW is terrible at showing what is actually in the kits.
Thanks anon. This is what I get for not having bought NIB models in forever.

>>72700583
Bit of a good news/bad news situation. No psychic phase is nice, and Vigilators will chew up MEQs, especially psykers.

However, if your friends are smart, they're going to make you charge through Warpflamer or Incinerator overwatch, which is not fun for T3, while they take advantage of actually having ranged weapon upgrades to pick off any models who can't make it into combat.

Basically, you only have one game plan, and they have good counterplay available, so it comes down to positioning and dice.

>>72573788
Ive had a little bit of luck playing with a deathmark on my team and fishing for sixes. Dont use more than one but I wouldnt say theyre complete trash.

>>72703055
They are though. They cost only one point less than an Immortal, so you can't get any extra bodies by taking them. Their weapon is also worse than a gauss flayer most of the time, and can't make use of relevant tactics. The only use I ever got from one was in a campaign at the very start of the game, as a comms specialist. And that was solely because people didn't consider him a worthwhile target compared to the other units.

>>72703259
Agree to disagree I enjoy my Cyclops boi

>>72704498
You won't keep rolling sixes forever.

>Many restrictions lifted in Michigan
Fuck yearh, already got games lined up for Saturday. Anybody else getting back to normal?

>>72707430
I wish the bits I ordered three months back arrived. The production line for them probably got disrupted

Hey
Which sept tenet is the best for a Stealth suite based team?
Share tactics with me please

>>72686971
Why are legs so long?

Post cool kill team terrain

>>72697697
what are those helmets from?

I have a shitty Tau Kill Team from the SC box. I'm keeping the Crisis Suit because it's cool, but what's a better addition: Stealth Suits or Pathfinders?

>>72711747
Stealth suits are busted from my experience. Fly is insanely powerful and the fact they are dificult to hit makes them fantastic.
They shine in kill team which is nice because it fits their lore.

>>72712558
Sweet, thanks. Looks like I'm picking up some eggs next time I go grocery shopping.

>>72697740
The white dwarf they're in hasn't even fully released yet. Are you kidding?

>>72571216
im a dumb polcel and its not ok! i need to die dont i!

>>72714071
Sorry, bud. Only part polacks are considered to be allowed to live around here. Full dirty polacks can go back to dirty Poland.

>>72712558
>busted
Eh those are good strengths but their downside is that they can't kill for shit relative to their point cost.

>>72714063
I was hoping they'd have released with them, guess I was wrong.

>>72707430
Had a 3-way game last week. Glad my country has been so efficient that we can open up now.

>>72716177

NZ?

>>72715996
No, they only have as much content as a core only factions did.
But also there is literally only 1 other SoS model in existence. If we get Annual 2020, expect Aleya as a commander option then.

>>72585701
So why do SM get shotguns then?

>>72717841
Because the SM model that takes it is in the game, unlike Veterans? Like he said? Same as for CSM and GSC.
The real question is "why can't Sergeants take boltguns?". It would actually have a place unlike shotguns and unlike bolters on SM teams.

>>72585701
Veterans would absolutely have a place between the better basic armament and defense of Scions and the regular ass Guardsman. They would probably be super competetive as they benefit from the regimental doctrines and would be cheaper than scions (probably about 7 pts). They would absolutely also be the ones to carry the special weapons, as having a plasma gun combined with almost any of the doctrines at a +3 BS, would be incredibly good. And yes, plasma spam isn't what it used to be, but every good Guard list does have a couple of them.

>>72717841
What >>72718148 said
>>72718235
It's not a matter of if they'd be used. Its a matter of if they'd offer real options in play. Guard doesn't play any different with Veterans - you might have 1 extra/fewer model but it doesn't change your tactical options like a Bullgryn or Gotfret does.

We can go into this further, but thread will die soon. Might be best to create a new one and continue there.

>>72718467
True, but I don't see why not having the option improves the game? I mean, while it doesn't improve the tactical options as much as Gottfred and Bullgryns it would still offer a good amount of tactical options, with the balance between Guardsmen/Veterans and Scions being pretty important for Guard.

It's also a very fluffy unit, as a high-stakes mission like in kill-team would include the best soldiers on offer. Personally I would rather remove Guardsmen/SWS and have Veterans instead.

>>72679366
Reminds me of this, World War 1 has such cool aesthetics, it's a shame it's overshadowed by the big WW2, but times change, seems neither is drawn upon much anymore for inspiration.