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71061135 No.71061135 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>want to be a sneaky archer
>pure Fighter
>pure Rogue
>mc Fighter with a dash of Rogue
>mc Rogue with a dash of Fighter
>mc half Fighter/half Rogue
>do I make Fighter or Rogue my Lv1 class
>what subclasses should I pick for my Fighter/Rogue
>should I try and squeeze some Ranger levels
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA THIS IS TOO COMPLEX

>> No.71061566
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71061566

>>71061135
Pure Fighter with Urchin background

>> No.71061644

It depends on what you want. If you want to have a bit of skill focus with burst damage and some qol stuff rouge. If you just want to pump out dps with a little bit of sneak, fighter is a better choice.

If you're going to MC, start with rouge as they get better bonuses and saves lvl 1.

>> No.71061694

>>71061135
Classless

>> No.71061754

>>71061135
Unironically have you tried not playing D&D?

But if you must, I'd reccomend 3 levels in Fighter, maybe a few levels in Ranger (but not really that great) and the rest in Rogue. Rogue sneak attack is good + expertise, pick Scout as your subclass. Fighters can go whatever but I'd recommend either going al lthe way to 5 for extra attack or only 2 for Archery.

>> No.71064471

>>71061135
>be me
>run classless rulesystem
>think about a neat character i'll like to play
>just make said character

>be op
>runs deendee
>wants to play a really common character archetype
>deendee doesn't cover it
>tries to hammer the system into his concept like a retarded child desperately tries to push a star shaped block inside a square hole.

You just chosen to live in hell op.

>> No.71064728

>>71061135
It really isn't that complex. You're playing a sneaky archer. You want to sneak. If you're already sneaking, might as well get extra damage out of it. So you need rogue levels for sneak attack. If you're getting sneak attack, might as well get as much as you can. All fighter gets you is higher BAB which if you're hiding properly isn't an issue because you're hitting flat-footed enemies.

And ranger's a fucking spellcasting class, it doesn't help you shoot better and spellcasters are only good when you dedicated to them.

Go all rogue you fucking imbicile. MAYBE dip a level into fighter if your build is feat-hungry and it's one of the editions where a 1 level dip in fighter gives you an extra feat.

>> No.71064791

>>71061135
>Sneaky archer
Pick whatever gives more burst damage from surprise attacks, so go rogue.

>> No.71065028

>>71061754
wasnt there weapon specialization at 4 level of fighter to gain? Seems like an important feat.

>> No.71065043

>>71064471
>deendee doesn't cover it
D&D covers "Stealth Archer" multiple times over. Fighter w/ Urchin background, literally just a Rogue, Ranger, Cleric, Wizard, any combination of those classes. If you expand into other editions, you have shit like Arcane Archer Monk. Read the book, nigga.

>>71061135
Fighter 2/ Rogue (Assassin) 3. Take the Alert feat, probably some other initiative bonuses, and focus on dealing as much damage in the first round of combat as you can. Your attacks against surprised opponents are auto-crits, so with a longbow that's 2d8+4d6+ Action Surge (also crit, 2d8)+ whatever other bonuses you can stack on there. With Ftr 3, you can pick up Battlemaster subclass for maneuvers (I like Disarming Attack or Trip Attack), and if you get an ASI you can take Crossbow Expert for more damage. Be a sneaky breaky shooty booty.

>> No.71065133

>>71065043
>Read the book, nigga
Ok i want to make a low int, social inept magician that uses fire magic only, how you do it in deendee?

>> No.71065153

>>71061135
Have you tried not playing D&D?

>> No.71065309
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71065309

>>71061135

>> No.71065373

>>71065153
>>71061754
>>71065309
This meme is shit and needs to die
At least save it for threads related to actual criticisms of D&D

>> No.71065408

>>71065133
You play an arcane spellcaster with low int and charisma, take only spells related to fire. Congrats, that fucking easy. Does it suck? Sure, but that's like saying you want to play a paraplegic barbarian. Sure, you can make it, but if you're gonna cripple them, of course they'll suck. But that's fine if that's what you wanna roleplay I guess

>> No.71065510

>>71065408
>hurr durr your character isn't optimal
Ok lets put deendee aside for a moment

>sotdl
- Character with low int (intelligence also affects social interactions);
- pick career path mage -> sorcerer -> pyromancer;
- pick fire tradition and celestial tradition (both are will based);
Fucking done, a perfectly workable character.

>mutants and masterminds
- Character with low intellect;
- powers are disjointed from attributes by default so i just build and buy the most appropriate cool fire spells.
- complication: social retard;
Fucking done, a perfectly workable character.

>gurps
- character with low iq (iq also affects social interactions);
- pick an high level of magery;
- pick only fire college spells;
- pick an appropriate mental disad for simulating social ineptitude;
Fucking done, a perfectly workable character.

...
I can go on if you like.

>> No.71065658

>>71065510
Nigga, you asked if you can make a retard, socially inept wizard that uses fire magic only in " deendee" in response to >read the book
Maybe it is more workable in other systems, but you can fucking do it in DEENDEE, so your question has been answered.

>> No.71065709

>>71065133
5e does not require a high casting stat in order to cast spells like previous edition, it only affects spell save DC. You can have a Wizard with 3 INT if you want. Or make a Draconic Sorcerer, Druids or Clerics. All casting classes get fire spells and high casting stats are not a requirement.

>>71065510
I don't really understand what your point is here. That you can make the same character in D&D or multiple systems? Congratulations, I guess. If you know what you're doing, and actually read the rules, you can make any character you want in any system.

>> No.71065721

>>71065658
>you can do it in dnd!!
>...but it suuucks
Sure, also running star trek in deendee is pretty doable, doesn't matter if fucking sucks.

>> No.71065742

>>71065373
They're not wrong in this case, OP's question relates to the grey area between classes. A certain combo of classes is one solution, playing in a system where every character is as close to your specific idea rather than an external archetype is another.

>> No.71065758

>>71065721
I just said it sucks because I assumed you'd start mentioning it when I said you can make a low int/cha arcane caster, and lo and behold, you brought it up again when I didn't really mention it in my last post, outside of saying it MAY be more workable in other systems. And as >>71065709 says, you can still cast those stronger spells, and maybe missing a bit more often is just roleplaying since you might suck at figuring the right places to shoot your shit if you're a sperg.

>> No.71065812

>>71065742
If we assume OP is truthful (and let's be honest in saying this is likely not the case), then OP is playing D&D, presumably wants to be playing D&D (or he'd be playing something else), and is having some frustration in one particular aspect of D&D.
Saying that playing another system is a valid solution is asinine. It's like a volleyball player who says, "Man, I love volleyball, but my serve needs work. How do i get better at serving?" And telling them, "HAVE YOU TRIED NOT PLAYING VOLLEYBALL?". What you're doing is not constructive. It's not funny or clever. It's idiotic.

>> No.71065817

>>71065721
Light domain cleric only requires wis as the casting stat and gets fire spells.

There, eat shit faggot.

>> No.71065869

>>71065758
And you all keep missing the point. Sure you can always come up with a solution regarding a peculiar character concept in dnd but you'll end with something refluffed at best (so arguable on a player/dm case) or suboptimal at worse.
Sure you can pick a fighter/urchin, a rogue/scout or a mix of both to get something akin to a an archer but doing that defies the notion of a class based rulesystem, so if you have to go on that lenght the easiest thing to do is a) picking a rulesystem that already has that archetype as a valid option or b) using a classless rulesystem and build the archetype down up.

>> No.71065940

Reminder to you fucking autist that your shitty forced meme makes people less likely to actually switch games. Fucking board is such shit these days I wish that it would just get fucking nuked /v/ aint even this bad anymore

>> No.71066066

>>71065869
I get what you're saying, and that's a fine opinion that I generally share, in that a system should be chosen to best fit the game.
However, not all character concepts fit a particular game, nor should all character concepts fit in every game. The system, the game, the GM, Players, tone, characters and more need to fit together appropriately like a jigsaw puzzle. If we were playing D&D, and you came to my table with a low intelligence, socially inept magician, I'd tell you to fuck off and stop wasting my time.
D&D has rules for multiclassing, and even encourages multiclassing. Several classes have front-loaded features that are much stronger with options from other classes (lookin at you, Fighter and Warlock), and they were specifically designed that way. Nothing about multiclassing "defies the notion of a class based rules system."

>> No.71066167

>>71065510
Semi related but what’s the best system for necromancy where it’s not shit and the fluff is cool?

>> No.71066220

>>71066167
Define "Not shit"

>> No.71066243

>>71066066
Nice dubs

>Nothing about multiclassing "defies the notion of a class based rules system."
It does to a certain degree. E.g. al eldritch knight is basically a fighter/mage multiclass so why an eldritch knight class should exist? I may even argue that a rougue is basically a pickpocketer/lockpicker/ruffian or something like that. I can keep making smaller and smaller archetypes 'till eventually reaching the point where there isn't any archetype.

On adnd 2e classes had more weight: they where professions archetypes under the human optic (so that's why demihuman could be multiclass, a fighter/mage was something that had sense inside elven society but had to be translated somehow in fighter/mage inside human to make sense in that context). That didn't prevented your character to acquire a new class but it was more difficult to do (reflecting the inherent weight of a class choice).

>> No.71066451

>>71061135
anon that's the fun part

>> No.71067671

>>71061135
The biggest advantage of class-based systems is that they have your character all laid out and you don't need to make decisions:

Play a ranger you dumb fuck.

>> No.71067692
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71067692

>>71065373
>D&D is bad
>meme

>> No.71067707

>>71065408
>but that's like saying you want to play a paraplegic barbarian

It absolutely isn't. There's nothing about "low intelligence and charisma" that implies "bad at magic," e.g. classically witches were dumb enough to sign away their souls and ugly to boot.

>> No.71067711

>>71061135
Have you tried playing Skyrim?

>> No.71067731

>>71061135
>first level in Rogue for extra skills, only miss out on heavy armor
>second level in fighter for archery
>third level for rogue 2 for cunning action
From here do whatever. More fighter if you wanna shoot lots of arrows, more rogue if you want more deadly individual shots. No Ranger unless you're multiclassing UA

>> No.71067738
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71067738

>>71065812
This is you and this is your """""""logic""""""", anon. Sometimes, the solution really fucking is to not play D&D. Especially when it's about something that only is a problem when playing D&D. So why it's so hard to grasp that yes, you should play other system to solve your shit, rather than trying to graft yet another homebrewed solution that's not gonna work anyway, due to the fundamentally broken nature of the game you are playing? I mean a dumb fucking animal would get it after so many, many, MANY times this was explained. Why won't you?

>> No.71067765

>>71061135
2 levels in rogue, the rest in fighter. Urchin Background, Go Battlemaster. Maybe dip into a bit of Bard (Or take a feat) to get Expertise in Stealth and Slight of Hand. Disarm enemies with arrows, disengage as bonus action, all sorts of combat shenanigans.

>> No.71067779

>>71066167
3.pf, Spheres of Power, Death Sphere. Take the drawback where you lose Ghost Strike and gain only Reanimate.

Then you can fluff it however you want with your magical tradition.

>> No.71067791

>>71067765
>2 levels in rogue
>Maybe dip into a bit of Bard (Or take a feat) to get Expertise
wat

>> No.71067848

>>71061135
god damn why do you retards make this so hard

>Be a trained fighter
>Not part of an army or fighting force, so no real income based on what your good at
>Decide to make money by stealing stuff
>Already physically fit from your martial training, so getting into and out of places isn't super hard
>Get tools or pay for someone to train you to get whatever minor bonus you can to lockpicking. DM doesn't allow it? Fine, carry a prybar.
>You have a history in how fighting works, you know getting stabbed and dying sucks, and you rely on yourself usually, so you wear low profile clothes and hide. If your character is equipped specifically to hide from people, and is in a place that a normal person in the area wouldn't look, you should never have to make any sort of silly high sneak checks. Your DM is a dick for enforcing that.

A fighter makes a more muscle based rogue. An actual rogue is a more skill based one. Stop being a faggot and trying to roll play, and start role playing.

>> No.71067852

>>71067791
I forgot rogues got expertise at 1st level, okay. I don't usually play them, because sneak attack is the stupidest bullshit.

>> No.71067864

>>71067848
>not playing a finesse, skill-based fighter who had a rough childhood

Urchin Battlemaster, coming through.

>> No.71067869
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71067869

>>71067779
>3.pf, Spheres of Power, Death Sphere.

>> No.71067900

>>71067869
I actually had to modify the Death Sphere for my game- mostly because people would be raising minions mid-combat and I'd have to ad-hoc up some 'zombie giant spiders' or whatever.

So I gave them free permenant undead, at the cost of it taking time (Usually done between sessions) to prepare the body to be raised. Unless it's a humanoid corpse, which they could raise instantly due to magic bullshit.

>> No.71067917

>>71067900
That seems fair. Necromancy can be quite a burden if you aren't prepared for everything being raised at some point

>> No.71068071

>>71067864
You're not wrong in your playstyle anon, I like both tbqh. Rogue is objectively best class after all. Sometimes I want to be the orb weaver, setting traps and being sneaky (skill based), sometimes I want to be a wolf spider, hanging from rafters and dropping a rope around somethings neck and yanking them up into the darkness (strength based).

>> No.71068172

>>71065133
Assuming you just want rock bottom Int and Charisma, Light Cleric. If moderate Wisdom is still too much and you want 8 in every mental stat to be a full retard, you can go for a Fire Genasi Pyromancer. You get Produce Flame and Burning Hands using Constitution as your casting stat, and Pyromancer pumps up the damage of burning hands. You can spell all of your higher level slots and sorcery points on updating or quickening those spells, with a few other options like Control Flames, Absorb Elements, Pyrotechnics, Flame Arrows, and Wall of Fire being Sorcerer spells you can add to your repertoire that don't rely on Charisma very heavily if at all.

It won't be the most optimal Sorcerer, but you'll have the advantage of having very high health and having plenty of points free for your Con and Dex. You're already less optimal for only casting Fire spells as is though, so no great loss

>> No.71068200

>>71067738
OP's problem is fundamentally option paralysis. If he was playing Shadowrun, he'd be questioning if an adept or street samurai made more sense for an archer, or if he should focus more on his gun skill or his gun attribute. The answer in both cases is to literally pick anything and just go with it unless you're trying to optimize, as fighter, rogue, adept, and street sam will all make halfway decent archers

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