Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

/vt/ is now archived.Become a Patron!

/tg/ - Traditional Games


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 455 KB, 1046x752, 1579947285267.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70648899 No.70648899 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Im new to dm'ing and i was hoping to get some advice from the wise dm's from /tg/ about the following points:
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
Thank you for any advice

>> No.70648943

>>70648899
>how to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
The best advice I can give here is to put characters in front of the players that would be of interest to their characters. Beyond that it's up to them.
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
Get creative. Puzzles, riddles, environmental obstacles, traps. There's a ton of resources online for dungeon building. Dungeon crawls are as old as TTRPGs.
>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
It's up to you, but bonus XP is a good one. Others just come up as you go. Throw some money their way if they're roleplaying well in shops or towns. For instance in my last session a character was challenged to a simple arm-wrestling contest, but the other player got the crowd going and people started tossing copper coins in for the winner. A small bonus but it got the players invested. I run a looser system, but if a player comes up with a unique idea in combat I assign it to a base attribute and run with it. I guess what it really comes down to is show them, don't tell them, that they're roleplaying well.

>> No.70648949

>>70648899
>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
Literally what inspiration is for.
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
What are their interactions like now?

>> No.70648953

>>70648899
Delete this thread and make one without a frog.

>> No.70649011

>>70648899
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
Use the environment. Make the enemies for example set up a defensive fortification in a tunnel or cavern passage using crates, barrels etc. to make a choke-point and challenge the players to get slightly more creative.
Impassable pr uneven terrain is neat though as another new DM I still struggle getting my players to consider in-combat skill checks like climbing or jumping obstacles for advantages. Describing the battlefield in detail helps.

>> No.70649093

>>70648949
OP here
interaction:
Players require X
Player approached npc which may solve X
"Do you have X?"

>> No.70649140

Fuck off, frogshit.

>> No.70649209

>>70649093
Oh god that sounds boring as shit. Incentivise them to RP more by saying that they may have the item but will only give it to them for a favour. Or maybe there's one NPC who has it but another NPC approaches them and says "I have something even better and all you have to do is this". It's all about choice and making things a little more interesting and a less linear. If they're not the most creative bunch, then you need to orientate them towards certain things with cool stories or personal items or loot or XP or whatever the fuck they like. If they're REALLY not creative, ask only open questions and improv off that. If they want to do something, give very basic details like where something is, and ask they how they want to accomplish it with no major instructions.

>> No.70649253

>>70648899
General purpose always-true advice: You get more of what you reward and less of what you punish

>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
Make it more rewarding to talk to them. If they don't know fuck-all and they're boring to talk to, theyre gonna get ignored. If they know where the next dungeon is and also how to get past the first lock (they found a hidden lever once themselves before becoming scared to go deeper) they might be more relevant.

>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
Why does the dungeon exist in the first place? If it's a natural terrain feature, why are people living there instead of somewhere else? What do the inhabitants need to do in their daily life when they're not fighting off adventurers? The answers to all these questions can give you great ideas.

>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
I don't.

>> No.70649299

>>70649093
>Player approached npc which may solve X
>"Do you have X?"

There's a missing step here which is the part where you describe a hook for them to roleplay from. If they need X and meet an X-Seller, "Do you have X" is in fact perfect roleplay, they are perfectly playing the role of a person who needs X.

>> No.70649312
File: 75 KB, 500x500, 61495.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70649312

>>70649093
>Players need to find the Hand of Vecna, a legendary artifact lost centuries ago, to stave off an undead apocalypse
>Approach a local experience wizard for more clues
>Players aren't sure what to ask
>"Do you have the Hand of Vecna?"
>Wizard is bewildered and says no
>Players are stumped and campaign ends

>> No.70649320
File: 470 KB, 1500x1630, Adams Family home dungeon good map.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70649320

>>70648899
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'

The OSR threads are riff with this, but some extra suggestions.
>Your dungeon write up is where the monsters are located RIGHT NOW. There's no question a group of adventurers could run into a gang of orcs chilling in a random side room right next to a room of zombies, such as barricading the door or arguing over how to fight them the best. They're in a state of limbo until you find them since it's the unknown. once you've activated them though, then they have to start existing in the world.
>Dungeons are fucking big. Oldschool dungeons often had 50% empty rooms, which are still useful for places to restock or reposition, especially if you keep careful track of player marching order and space. All that empty space also serves as verisimilitude as to why all these monsters can exist in one place
>mythic underworld. Monsters don't follow conventional logic; a huge dragon doesn't actually need much food, since it just sleeps all the time and is restored by the ambient energies of the dungeon. Monsters may also be inactive or quiet if people aren't down there bringing in light and distrubing the cthonian darkness that is spawning these enemies in the first place
>Add in more secret walls and passages. I love passages too small to cross through, like pipes and vents. Adds immersion and lets clever player do things like send their pet animals through for scouting or use spells at a distance

>> No.70649370

>>70649299
suggestion for role play hook?

>> No.70649418

>>70648899
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
How creative are you? There's usually 1 or 2 npcs within earshot of my parties, especially when they're in town and I have them react to things the party do and say.
>Party walks through town talking about the sweet loot they just got.
>Npcs approach, having overheard them, and start aggressively peddling, begging, sizing up the party for potential robbery, etc.
Or
>Cleric mentions their religion/ openly displays their holy symbol while traveling to the next big destination.
>The party's hireling starts asking questions about the cleric's god, or maybe asserts that their own god is better.

My players are pretty good at interacting with the world already, but these are good rp opportunities or ways to smoothly put important npcs in their path.

>> No.70649447

>>70649418
my players do not give prompts to react/play off

>> No.70649456

>>70649093
Sounds like the problem lies with the NPCs, not the players. If the world's not interactive, why should they be? Let the NPC make the first move by asking their names, asking why the barbarian looks like that or maybe insisting on selling them some random nicknack.

>> No.70649488

>>70649456
fair point

>> No.70649506

>>70649370
Start small. Have NPCs show an interest in the players, asking them about their items or traits. Maybe after that have somebody approach them to do a job and they don't give all the details leading to a betrayal. Maybe instead of having one NPC know where the next clue is, there's actually two, and they give conflicting advice.

Just find something to anchor their character in the world, like NPCs they're invested in or building a reputation or their home village they care about. Something their characters, and their players vicariously, can care about. And make sure to offer more choices than just finding the next correct NPC for the correct clue, offer at least two choices and then let it get more complicated from there.

Above all, it's all to make sure you and your players are having fun. The more choices they have and more invested they grow the more fun they have.

>> No.70649543

>>70648899
Let's say the PCs want to talk to a random shopkeeper. How interesting can you make this dude on the fly? Here's three archetypes I just came up with.
>Antisocial Moe Szyslak (buy something or get out)
>Larger than life bazaar hawker with a booming voice, always referring to himself in the third person
>The pimpled teen temp worker just there as a McJob
Everyone needs personality. Everyone needs flavor. Don't give a shit if it's trite or unoriginal or silly, it's a game. Never strive for absolute realism in your NPCs. Sure, you need some grounded personalities in the mix, but if everyone acts like a cardboard cutout, it's hard to immerse yourself. If your players hate your annoying as fuck shopkeep, good, use that as a spring board to some excellent RP.

>> No.70649644

>>70648899
A lot of this depends what game you’re playing anon.
For example you can incentivise good role playing with bonus exp handouts at the end - you can get them to vote on who thy think RPed best/most to award the bonus, create some friendly competition between them.
Beyond that you can give out small bonuses - D&D 5th has inspiration for that purpose, and other things have similar fate manipulation mechanics you might employ as a reward or bribe.
For things like social encounters, rather than just HELLO DO YOU HAVE X I ROLL PERSUASION, you can do stuff like
>okay but if you tell me what you’re gonna say, if might lower the DC/give a bonus/increase your pool or whatever mecxhanic yoh use
Basically give them a small mechanical benefit incentive to try and roleplay a bit more, or to at least consider things in that way.
A lot o people - especially newbies - are somewhat shy of roleplaying since they’ve never done it before, especially in front of others. Give them an ‘excuse’ becuase they’re after the bonus, and they might find it easier to do.

As for things in dungeons that don’t just have enemies - have puzzles, or have rooms that tell a story.
Perhaps in the goblin cave they find a small side room. No enemies here, but the tattered remains of a pair of human skeletons, their remaining armour torn and shredded and long gone to ruin.
Some small hidden details might himt who they are, and then later a goblin might have a fancy sword in his possession - when visiting a another town someone recognises the sword as belonging to their uncle, etc.
Just little things like that which can be as complex or simple as you like and draw new possible plot hooks and stories and NPCs for your players.
Throw some mushrooms the wizard might recognise as bein useful, some ancient statue the archaeologist recognises might be retarded to some local legend, some cute animal the smuggler thinks might sell really well to the trader they know in Alpha Centauri.
Whatever!

>> No.70649647

>>70649447
You don't need prompts, just some degree of reactivity. It's not a video game so you can have as much RP as you want and it can affect the story as much as you like.

Say you have a druid player. A druid just walking into a city might be grounds for interesting RP, since maybe that city hardly see any druids walk in. NPCs might be interested in that, maybe a little kid walks up to their character and asks what their favourite druidic animal is. All based solely on their class and you can easily spin off from there.

Or maybe they're going to ask NPC for X. Presumably X is an important item, so why would the NPC just give it to them? If you went and asked someone for a faberge egg, would they just give it to you? Surely they'd need some convincing or ask for something in exchange? And why would there just be one person who controls all of the faberge eggs, why can't they ask someone else and see where it leads? TTRPGs can be fun loot games but the reason they've stuck around is because they exist in the realm of imagination.

Within the confines of the system, and outside of it as well if you need, you can have whatever you dream up. So at least use that to emphasise choice and reactivity. Make their interactions and quests memorable and let them have an impact on the narrative.

>> No.70649657

>>70649447
Sounds hopeless desu

>> No.70649676

>>70649447
>>70649488
Your players sound pretty unimaginative but so you do OP. People keep giving good advice but you seem to want them to write the campaign for you.

>> No.70649693

Why would I reply to this thread when you actively ignore people trying to help you?

>> No.70649731

>>70649693
i have disagreed with 1 out of the list of advice above. I am literally writing down a lot of these useful points...

>> No.70649810

>>70648899
Kill yourself, frogposter.

>> No.70649853

>>70649731
I'm guessing you're a new DM with new players? If so, they're probably shy about actual RP or don't have experience. If that's the case, you're going to have to compensate for that and push them towards RPing and having fun with their characters. There's a lot of good advice above, just keep encouraging it by offering inpirations, offering XP if necessary, and offering them stuff about their character until they find something they like. Did they write backstories at all? Those usually offer a wealth of interesting RP. Otherwise figure out the stuff they like and orientate interactions towards that. Maybe they like being heroic, or feared warriors, or sly saboteurs. Let them live that out. You offer incentives initially until they're interested enough to start RPing when prompted without those incentives. Then hopefully they just start initiating RP themselves.

As for dungeon design, let your imagination run wild. >>70649320 >>70649011
>>70649253 has really good advice but I'd add that having a gimmick for them makes them more memorable. Maybe they need to investigate a mine but it's a cool mine rithe with glowing crystal seams. You can use a pregen dungeon if it makes it easier, and then add on your own twists and features to that as desired.

There's no easy way around it, it takes practice for both aspects though. Just try to improve and expand a little bit each session.

>> No.70650055

>>70649853
do you have any principles when deciding the amount of exp you think is fair to give?

>> No.70650293
File: 68 KB, 708x864, 1547198887499.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70650293

A easy trick I've found is to get good at accents for different NPCs. If you can't put an accent on, use different words (a noble talks fancy, a peasant speaks slowly and simply with uhms errs interspaced). Also, add ticks and quirks to NPCs. Maybe the Magical store shopkeeper doesn't give a shit about 4 randos dressed in rags and dirty armour. Instead he focuses on the noble eyeing up the daggers. Maybe the blacksmith had a bad run in with a druid and tells the hippy party to get the fuck out his shop.

Usually, after a few chuckles at my accents the players start thinking how their character would sound or talk.

If they still aren't participating after everything in this thread, they're dense and you should probably just play a more straight forward table top till everyone gets comfortable around each other. It took me several attempts to get my friends to not play like skyrim or feel too awkward to roleplay.

>> No.70650500

It’s actually kind of staggering how many of these “How do I DM?” or “I don’t have friends, pls help!” threads are made with a fucking Pepe as the OP. Do newfags and site tourists genuinely believe that shitty frog is the key to fitting in around here, and that if you post one to start a thread it’ll seem like you didn’t just roll in from reddit or twitter?

>> No.70653806

>>70648899
>how do you reward pc roleplaying
Intangibly, mostly.
I don't like to give out good player treats because they should be doing it for their enjoyment, not to please the GM and get candy.

The more a player has their PC engage and interact with the world, the more I tweak things to go their way. (Never reverse it and punish lack of interaction. That's beating a dog for not playing with you)
For example:
>>70649506
>Maybe instead of having one NPC know where the next clue is, there's actually two, and they give conflicting advice.
This is great.
It forces the players to get involved and make a decision. If a player gets really into the roleplay and decides to listen to one npc over the other for roleplay reasons, I have that hook pan out.
And if different players get involved and disagree and compete over which hook to follow, roleplaying the whole time? How does one reward th at? That's a much better problem to wrestle with, like deciding which girl to start with in a three way. There really isn't much of a downside to worry about.

>> No.70653871

>>70650500
I always assume it's that they just came in from outside and tracked pepe on the carpet because they aren't accustomed to leaving their frogstompers at the door.
Also, the awful frog has the connotation of "I am a pathetic loser", which isn't inaccurate when seeking help.

>> No.70654004

>>70648899
dumb frogposter

>> No.70654010

>>70648899
>>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
"Dungeons" are places.
Why was the place created?
What was it used for before?
What aspects of that would still be around?
What is it used for now?
What would be necessary for it to be used that way?
What might be found as it is being used that way?
Where do enemies eat, recreate, or sleep?
Where do they store food or other supplies?
Where do they get water?
Where is the damn bathroom?
How many entrances does it have?
What if there is a fire?
How smart are those that use it?
How do they get around from one area to the next?

Think about how if a dungeon has a super trapped entrance, the locals probably won't use it and it will be dusty. The more well trafficked paths might be guarded, but likely untrapped.

>> No.70655563

>>70650500
/tg/ is the only board butthurt about frog, i dunno how this aversion to pepe started, but no other board, even /sci/ and /lit/ is this much hostile to frogposters

>> No.70656201

>>70655563
I can't speak for the loud haters, but at this point it is a visual cue for a worthless thread/post by someone who can't even pretend that they play traditional games.
>inb4 "Isn't that all of /tg/?"

So, 90% of frogposts are shitpost trash, just like the "dumb frogposter" or "work on your art" mediocrity myna birds flocking around as if shouting "Freebird" was ever once funny outside of the one time Bill Hicks managed to salvage a rant into improvised genius.

>> No.70656300

>>70655563
>What are /bant/, /v/, /a/, /jp/, /k/, /o/, and /n/?
A whole lot of boards feel that Pepe is an /r9k/+/pol/ meme that overstepped his boundaries after 2016 and his posters act like every other board they go to functions as those two do.

>> No.70657186

didnt realise people hated frog on this board

>> No.70657265

>>70657186
Yep.
Turns out it isn't easy being green, unrelated to /tg/, and symbolic of the worst kinds of 4chan idiocy.

>> No.70657291

That said, the decent approach is:
>see pepe
>assume post is shit
>confirm post text is worthless before replying or ignoring
Actual results may vary.

>> No.70657344

>>70657186
Frogposter immediately means a low effort shitty thread 99% of the time. Either a shallow one-sentence premise or somebody who wants to be entirely spoonfed everything. This thread is definitely a case of the latter.

>> No.70660880

Not one reliable solution in the thread. None of you fucktards have ever played.

Inactive PCs are solved by proactive NPCs. The one guy who recommended a merchant trying to hawk items got closest, but that’s still too hard for knuckle-draggers like OP’s party. The NPC basically has to gift wrap it for them.

>> No.70661139

>>70660880
He asked about encouraging interactivity, not encouraging action from inactive players.
It sounds like the players are active enough.

>We need X, you got X? Good. We take X. We go.
Action without interaction.

That said, proactive npcs are a good response, but the players need to be encouraged to *interact* as well.

>> No.70663070

>>70648899
I'll blow your mind with the only right, practical answers

Are your players actually decent people? Make a child DMPC that the players will actually need to take care of. Maybe they won't care at the start but it will grow on them. Have it be a girl who sees wonder in everything, tends to their wounds and cooks really well. Show that you're having fun playing as her while she explores the world with them and they'll probably want to have that same fun.

Are your players usual /tg/ material? Give them waifus. Not even joking. Have them be useful but fragile. Have them travel with the party. Use them to pull some RP out of them. This works with the above, one of the PCs can be a sort of father figure and you set him up with one of the waifus by having her be motherly. Make sure they understand the waifus are hard to get, even if they don't play hard to get.

And yes, this all comes down to "make a DMPC and give it a place in the party". Most who complain about DMPCs suffered under one that outshined the PCs by design. Tve players don't mind if their PCs take a backstage if they're the ones setting up an NPC they like as important or if the NPC is important to the world in a coherent and satisfying way and the players can act upon said NPC.

>> No.70666219

>>70663070
>DMPC
A DMPC is a biased GM creation by definition and therefore almost exclusively a bad thing.

Creating an NPC and the players becoming attached to that NPC is ideal.

>it will grow on them
Zero guarantee of that

>> No.70666285

>>70655563
You post a pepe or a wojak on /a/ and you get a day ban. Best thing about the board.
>Even /sci/ or /lit/
I can't speak much for /lit/ personally, but /sci/ is filled with lowest denominator people. Even the people attempting to appear smart. Especially the people attempting to appear smart

>> No.70666324

>>70648899
> Give the party a noncombat NPC follower, like a cart driver, camp cook, or similar, who just wants to chat with the PCs. Make him useful out of combat so he isn't abandoned, and make him gregorius and friendly. It might help if he openly admires the PCs.

>> No.70666536

No

>> No.70666658

>>70666219
All NPCs are DMPCs. It's just used a derrogatory term for ones the DM has a really obvious bias towards. But, in general, we all have bias towards specific creations if we actually bother to flesh them out. The nature of most campaigns just isn't conducive to this sort of thing since players are always travelling. The solution comes with giving them a home.

And in regards to there being no certainty when ot comes to their investment, you're right. But, at that point, they're a lost cause.

>> No.70667072
File: 15 KB, 335x231, AnonBroken.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70667072

>>70666658
>All NPCs are DMPCs.
Wow. You don't seem like you are trolling, but actually broken.

>>A DMPC is a GM biased NPC
>"DMPC" just used as a derrogatory term for NPCs the DM has a really obvious bias towards
Not all NPCs are DMPCs *because* "DMPC" used just as a term for NPCs the DM has a really obvious bias towards or thinks of as "their PC". It is an inherent conflict of interest. If it isn't, then it isn't a DMPC. Meatbread isn't meatbread unless it's been baked, otherwise it's just meat and dough.

It is okay. After all, all wrong anons are broken. "Broken" is just used as a derrogatory term for ones who are as wrong as you.

>> No.70667125

>>70666658
Sorry, I forgot.
>And in regards to there being no certainty when ot comes to their investment, you're right. But, at that point, they're a lost cause.
Just because players don't invest in the NPC you want them to, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are incapable of becoming invested.
There's no guarantee of *which* NPC the get invested in. That great character you crafted and loved can get ignored while they fixate on a kobold messenger or a forgetful old spellcrafter getting help from all the villagers.
You are wrong about lost causes too.
Even broken anons aren't lost causes.

>> No.70667235
File: 38 KB, 720x697, no.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70667235

>>70666658
>All NPCs are DMPCs

>> No.70667344

>>70667235
>>70667072
NYART, but mistaking internet memes for rl life interactions is a bad sign, anon.
That said, in this case, it is a npc, as it will not take part in the party's adventures, but is a tag along.

>> No.70667389

>>70667344
Can't for the life of me figure out what NYART means, but I don't think posting a cheeky reaction image is taking the conversation too seriously my guy.

In any case, DMPC is exactly as you said. A derogatory term for NPCs the DM has given too much of a spotlight within the player party. A follower NPC does not a DMPC make, even if it's taking party in the adventure.

>> No.70667432

>>70667389
>DMPC is exactly as you said. A derogatory term for NPCs the DM has given too much of a spotlight within the player party
Yes, on the internet, where the meme originated.
Taking that definition into real life, at a real table, is silly.

>> No.70667468

>>70667344
>NYART, but mistaking internet memes for rl life interactions is a bad sign, anon.
Good point. Pity that it's unrelated to what we're discussing.

>That said, in this case, it is a npc, as it will not take part in the party's adventures, but is a tag along.
They didn't say they would not take part, just that they were fragile. Also, "Protect and Escort" NPCs can easily be DMPCs too.

>>70663070
>players don't mind if their PCs take a backstage if they're the ones setting up an NPC they like as important or if the NPC is important to the world in a coherent and satisfying way and the players can act upon said NPC.
It sounds like here that they are describing something more than a tag along. Tag alongs generally don't make the PCs take backstage.

>> No.70667497

>>70667432
Except I think it's a valuable line in the sand to have. No one wants the DM stealing the spotlight from the players and that's what a DMPC does.

It's good to have a simple term to refer to such a thing. If I was ever unfortunate enough to play with such a shit DM, the party and I would have a simple way to call it out.

Now, I actually have a great group I play with so I don't have to worry about it, but I think it's a strangely dismissive point to throw something with a clear cut meaning into the trash because it originated on the internet. Most people know what it means now days.

>> No.70667509

>>70667389
>NYART
Googled it.
Not (who) You Are Replying To
It's "Not that anon" for people who have never heard of New York art.

>> No.70667526

>>70667509
Thanks bud, should have added some extra key words to my search but just wanted to reply.

>> No.70667551

>>70667432
>Yes, on the internet, where the meme originated.
>Taking that definition into real life, at a real table, is silly.
You silly fuck.
The TERM *may* have originated from the internet, but DMPCs were around before the internet was [popular].

>> No.70667621
File: 67 KB, 500x504, NYART.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70667621

>>70667526
I just added "definition" and scrolled past NY art

>> No.70667820

>>70648899
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
>involve the PC's character in the story in a way that they care about. For some it's as simple as making them a 'chosen one' type or using a bit of the backstory they came up with and liked so they feel like it's their story, for the worst though you gotta be mean. Say a guy really wanted some kind of cool looking item, and while he doesn't care for the story he wanted to make a cool concept for his character. And he's ignoring the dialogue with the guy who will turn out to be the big bad. So have that baddie try to talk to the guy and then get annoyed with him. So the baddie breaks the guy's item or orders someone to do it, then laughs and leaves. Now he cares and he wants revenge. It's cheap but a good last resort.

>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
The enemies should be a puzzle. It could be as simple as a couple different enemies that require addressing them in a specific order, or you can add elements to the terrain or to the enemies that require creativity to deal with them. Hard to fight goblins in zero gravity, or fight a monster that's invisible unless someone gets a high enough perception roll to spot its footprints in the sand or sense it another way that round so they can use their turn to say "it's over there" only to restart the next round.
Make environmental puzzles too. Don't make your dungeons a series of tiles, make them real rooms and halls in a real place. A ghost town overrun with monsters can be a dungeon, a massive ship or a mysterious island. A dungeon in these games is a concept for an isolated location with certain elements to it.

>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
Same answer as the first, make them feel involved in whats happening by involving them in what's happening. Make them want their character to be involved.

>> No.70667842

>>70648943
Fuck puzzles and fuck riddles. To make your dungeon better make it more than a random hole in the ground. Make it an abandoned fort, a tapped out mine, or something else that makes sense.

>> No.70667925

>>70649011
I had some players who started using skill checks in combat to navigate terrain more after being forced to learn how when they had to fight goblins in zero gravity. Every time they jumped off of, landed on, or tried to grab onto something, they had to make a roll to not go spinning.

Then I pulled the rug out from under them later on when one of them was being hypnotically drawn in by an otherworldy monster's illusion and I told them to roll when another player tried tripping them. They celebrated a high roll until I told them they successfully avoided being tripped and moved two paces closer to the monster.

>> No.70667944

>>70649093
Make X something the player themselves personally care about so they're pissed off at not having it and willing to shake someone down to get it back.

>> No.70668042
File: 207 KB, 713x509, Sigmar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70668042

>>70648899
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
start with a shopkeeper that obviously overcharges them, once they realise they can improve their NUMBER by talking, talking will come naturally.
try to avoid shutting them down in roleplay as well.

>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
use real things, mines castles ect, look at the kind of rooms said real things had, then put enemies in them.

>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
Dnd will say inspirations, try having NPCs that actually want to help the player out, or come to their aid, also Experience points if they're number driven

>> No.70668076

>>70667842
I was just spitballing anon, no one person has every answer. But you're absolutely right. I just thought OP was asking about mechanical engagement, see his second question. He was asking what else he could put in rooms. Not what kind of story to tell with it.

>> No.70668213

>>70648899
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
With regards to dungeons, there's a lot of ways to do this. The way that I like is to have puzzles/challenges that take the entire dungeon to complete. For example, I have a 50 room dungeon to start this game off of. It was an ancient Elf fortress, now buried underground after a cataclysm. At the end of the dungeon, and the 2nd floor, was a vault. The only way to open the vault was by wearing two gauntlets of a long forgotten general. These gauntlets were hidden in places through the dungeon, including a sarcophagus. So they had to go back and figure things out. This is just an example, there's multiple ways to do something like this.
>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
XP. My players can spend hours planning and role-playing out pursuits for their own characters. Good players will try to role play and convince potential threats to relinquish, not just fight them.
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
This is the hardest with noobs. The easiest (read, still hard) way is to role play first. Get into character. You don't have to do accents and shit, you're not a fucking voice actor. But, think of audio books. Narrators basically do multiple characters by just changing the tembre, pace, etc. of their voice, Anyone can do that. With simple techniques like that, you can make memorable NPCs.

Last thing. Make yourself some random tables. Random NPC's, random shit that happens while traveling, shit like that. It makes running the game so much easier. Also, have a list of names for certain races, regions whatever for those random NPCs. When doing names, just rip of something in real life. For example, my dwarves use Yiddish/Hebrew names and words, one of my human nations Latin and Greek, a beast race uses Native American Shoshone names, etc. That makes naming really easy and immersive.

>> No.70668240

>>70668042
Now at least this is a dumb */tg/ related* frog.

Decent advice too.

>> No.70668255

>>70666658
>Everything is made of atoms so there's no reason to have different words for different things because they're not actually different its all the same

The rest of us can tell the difference bro

>> No.70668269

>>70667925
Good idea, thanks anon

>> No.70668294

>>70667432
>Yes, on the internet, where the meme originated.
How I Can Tell You're New

DMPCs were around when I started playing. In 1995. I had serveral myself before I became a better DM.

>> No.70668425
File: 141 KB, 815x630, ReginaldIsCute.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70668425

>>70668294
But don't you know, anon? Nobody actually plays games or does things. Everything is just internet memes! They are made up and don't really exist, just like koala bears or women who enjoy sex!

>> No.70668514

>>70648899
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
Make your NPCs interesting and worth interacting with
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
Dungeons might have served other purposes before becoming dungeons. Limitation breeds creativity, and limiting yourself to building a thematic dungeon that maybe used to be a hospital or a school or a temple or something will force you to use rooms that are interesting outside of "the next place with bad guys"
>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
I use a deck of blank cards and I hand those out as "inspiration points". Players can cash those in to reroll any d20 roll they make. Suddenly my quiet player who was content to just let everyone else do their thing started quipping and talking in character.

Hope any of this helps.

>> No.70668597

>>70668514
Forgot to mention a rule concerning this inspiration thing:

I told my players that they can give each other inspiration cards only if I don't see them making the exchange.
There's a whole additional game taking place during the game where my friends are "Now You See Me"-ing their inspiration points around to help out the player who's rolling like shit all game.

Strongly recommend for any table; I think it's a blast

>> No.70670631

>>70667072
>>70667125
Finally getting around to replying, you should actually just play games instead of working the pedantic muscle online while offering nothing useful. It all seems very masturbatory.

>obvious bias
First, relative. Your cute definition relies on player perspective which, if you played games, you'd understand is always different. One might consider an NPC a DMPC while others might not. The only true arbiter of what is a DMPC is the DM himself since only he truly knows his own bias. The DM might be forcing an NPC with the actual intention to set up a villain that takes agency from the players, which they must recover. Some players might understand this and bide their time while others might complain about it being a DMPC, for example.

Second, if the DM expects players to love his NPCs he should put his heart into them like if they were his own PCs. Every single one should, ideally, have the markings of a fun story or adventure.

Third, there is no "conflict of interests". The players are in as much obligation to provide fun to the DM as the contrary. The DM is not there to clean your diapers and hate his own life as he tard wrangles unruly children. Players tend to be incredibly selfish, demanding yet undecisive. They care about their fun but ignore everyone else's, especially the DM's. But all are meant to have as much fun as possible at the table. And the players should have a bias towards the DM since he's the one investing the most at all times and making things possible.

>> No.70670967

>>70670631
Hilarious that you'd call them out for being pedantic, then precede to dance around a pretty well defined thing.

>> No.70671005

>>70670967
Have a (You) for effort.

>> No.70672307

>>70670631
First,
>One might consider an NPC a DMPC while others might not.
Just because the difference between an NPC and a DMPC isn't an objective line, doesn't mean DMPCs don't exist.
You silly thing.

>The only true arbiter of what is a DMPC is the DM himself since only he truly knows his own bias
>Only the biased know the depths of their bias.
Damn. You are deeply broken and delusional.

Second, a GM putting his heart into every single NPC as if they were his own PCs, granting them all the markings of a fun story or adventure is great in theory.
But developing a full backstory for every background extra that wanders by is silly.

Third, the idea that there is never any possible conflict of interest is wrong. The moment the individual capable of molding the entire world to their whims values what they want for their own character differs from the players' enjoyment, there is a conflict. Suggesting that can never happen because the GM has every right to enjoy himself as much as the players is very silly.

>The DM is not there to clean your diapers and hate his own life as he tard wrangles unruly children. Players tend to be incredibly selfish, demanding yet undecisive. They care about their fun but ignore everyone else's, especially the DM's. But all are meant to have as much fun as possible at the table. And the players should have a bias towards the DM since he's the one investing the most at all times and making things possible.
Okay, now you sound more like a troll pretending to be an angry, broken, child of a GM.

>> No.70672592

>>70672307
>lol ur silly, lol ur wrong, lol ur a troll
Not an argument.

>> No.70672699

>>70672592
>ignores every actual point because anon said things he didn't like
>continues to ignore that DMPC is well defined
You're a dipshit.

>> No.70672804

>>70672592
>Concluding that someone is silly is not an argument.
Correct. Fortunately, the entirety of the rest of the post was. You know, all that stuff you conveniently ignored? Yeah, that.
Also?
Protip: Pointing out to someone that they sound like a troll isn't the same thing as calling them a troll.
You need to work on grasping nuanced meanings.
Party on.

>> No.70672934

>>70657186
This thread is okay, but posting the frog usually indicates a low quality thread from post 2016 newfags.

>> No.70673103

>>70672804
>you need to grasp nuanced meanings
>you need to make my argument for me so I can be as vague as I want
No. Also, I ignored nothing, you both never made any argument to begin with, set up strawmen and proposed self-defeating definitions.

>> No.70673428

>>70668269
I was running a space game, if you're in something else like standard dnd 5e, it's probably not hard to come up with a scenario where some magic turns off gravity, or some mystical cave deep in a sealed off section of a dwarf mine with black rock walls studded with crystals that shine like stars where some ancient power causes everything to float.

Or just something that's similar in concept like terrain you need to be careful navigating.

>> No.70673877

>>70673103
I will never understand argueanons who are fixated on arguing but are so terrible at following reason.
I mean, I get it when some argueanon gets cornered by facts and logic, so they try to distract with nonsense. I get that. It's the only way to win a debate if you're wrong.
But I don't see why argueanons would seize a line or point and immediately announce that they have zero understanding of it.
Like this:
>>70673103
>>you need to grasp nuanced meanings
>>you need to make my argument for me so I can be as vague as I want
Clearly the "nuanced meaning" in question was the difference between "pointing out to someone that they sound like a troll" and "calling them a troll", as well as various other such nuanced meanings anon was being implied to also miss.
It is obvious that it had nothing to do with making arguments in any way. But argueanon announces that it was, like they were noting that blue is a lighter shade of pink.
I just don't see the point.
Outing oneself as being unable to understand post content does not encourage others to continue to argue.
I don't see the point. Is it a way of giving up?

>> No.70675348

>>70673877
>facts and logic
>Me, an Intellectual
Not healthy to huff your own farts.

>> No.70675899

>>70648899
>How to persuade PC's to be more interactive with npc's
The problem with nuskool games is that PCs are so powerful they rarely have an incentive to "solve" an encounter by any means other than combat. By posing obstacles for them that are suicidal to take head-on, the PCs will have to use their noodles. This is where faction politics comes into play: convince the orc tribe to raid the kobold tribe. Bribe the ogre guard. Infiltrate the bandit camp and probe for weaknesses. These must be more attractive as options than direct combat, so present PCs with challenging obstacles.
>how do you make a dungeon in which has rooms which dont just serve to be 'place where enemies are'
Gygaxian naturalism. Dungeons have rooms for stockpiles, kitchens, garbage dumps, dormitories, slaughterhouses, farms, wells, sick bays. Play or read some Dwarf Fortress play reports to see what goes into building an outpost underground.
>how do you reward pc roleplaying (my players are a little short on the creative side)
A lot of people say XP rewards, but I disagree. If your players aren't roleplaying, it's because they don't have to to get through encounters. Giving someone 500xp for doing an accent isn't going to meaningfully alter their playstyle. As I said earlier, players will roleplay if they have to, i.e. if they can't just solve everything by blasting through it.

>> No.70678052
File: 62 KB, 405x720, 1570066273704.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70678052

not sure how much longer this thread will last, but thanks for the advice wise /tg/ anons

>> No.70679854

>>70678052
No problem OP

>> No.70680177

>>70678052
Give me a fucking (You) before I kill my fucking self and its your fault

>> No.70680225

>>70648899
>1 Talk to them first. Start the conversations. Speak normally, don't try and speak like Tolkein did in LoTR, and if you want to use the-thy-thou, remember it's to lessers.
>2. Simply think on what the dungeon is meant to be. Add traps, open space, weird scenery, small stories, stuff like that.
>3. Reward them with easier solutions to your problem.

>> No.70680417
File: 356 KB, 502x479, unknown.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
70680417

>>70680177

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
Captcha
Action